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Ambassador Bill Taylor Brings New Bombshell into the Impeachment Hearing; Ceasefire on Hold Between Gaza and Islamic Jihad; President Trump Welcomed Turkish President into the White House; Venice, Italy Inundated with Record-Breaking Flood; Diplomat Reveals Trump Call About Investigations; Gaza Ceasefire Appears To Be Restored; Deadly Superbugs, CDC Sounds Alarm About Drug-Resistant Superbugs. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired November 14, 2019 - 03:30   ET




ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. It's 8 a.m. in London, 10 a.m. on Israel-Gaza border. From Atlanta headquarters, I'm Rosemary Church with CNN Newsroom. Let's get started.

Ahead this hour, a captivating hearing on Capitol Hill. The impeachment inquiry goes public and a witness reveals new information about Donald Trump's role in pressuring the Ukrainians.

Over the White House the president was hosting the leader of Turkey declaring himself a big fan of Recep Tayyip Erdogan and downplaying the disagreements over Syria.

Also, ahead, the alarming new study on superbugs. They're getting smarter and deadlier.

Good to have you with us.

So, on the first day of the U.S. impeachment hearings, two diplomats remain steadfast in their alarm at White House policy in Ukraine. Bill Taylor revealed a previously unknown phone call between President Trump and the ambassador to the European Union.

Taylor said his aide overheard the call and afterwards the ambassador said the president cared more about the investigation of his rival Joe Biden, than he did about Ukraine.

Republicans attack the testimony as secondhand and politically biased.

Alex Marquardt has details.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The committee will come to order.


ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The momentous hearing gaveled into session.


SCHIFF: The impeachment inquiry into Donald J. Trump --


MARQUARDT: Ambassador Bill Taylor, Trump's top diplomat in Ukraine, and George Kent, a deputy assistant secretary of state laying out what they saw and heard as the Trump administration held up military aid while demanding investigation into Trump's political enemies.


TAYLOR: The odd push to make President Zelensky publicly commit to investigations of Burisma and alleged interference in the 2016 election showed how the official foreign policy of the United States was undercut by the regular efforts led by Mr. Giuliani.


MARQUARDT: Taylor and Kent testifying that Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, was leading what Taylor called a highly irregular channel with Ukraine.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What interest do you believe he was promoting, Mr. Kent?

GEORGE KENT, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR EUROPEAN AND EURASIAN AFFAIRS: I believe he was looking to dig up political dirt against a potential rival on the next election cycle.

TAYLOR: I agree with Mr. Kent.


MARQUARDT: Both men making clear how unsettled they were with the rouge Ukraine policy and the demands on the Ukrainians.


TAYLOR: It's one thing to try to leverage a meeting in the White House, it's another thing, I thought, to leverage security assistance, security assistance to a country at war dependent on both the security assistance and the demonstration of support. It was -- it was much more alarming.

KENT: As a general principle, I do not believe the United States should ask other countries to engage in selective politically associated investigations or prosecutions against opponents of those in power because such selective actions undermine the rule of law regardless of the country.


MARQUARDT: Republicans led by ranking member of the intelligence committee, Devin Nunes, blasted the hearing. The GOP united in their defense that the president never actually demanded investigations.


REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): I think one of the mothers of all conspiracy theories that somehow the president of United States would want a country that he doesn't even like he doesn't want to give foreign aid to, to have the Ukrainians start an investigation into Bidens.


MARQUARDT: Jim Jordan of Ohio who was added to the intelligence committee for the sole purpose of questioning the impeachment witnesses, making the point that Taylor and Kent never actually spoke with the president.


REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): You're their star witness, you're their first witness?


TAYLOR: Mr. Jordan --

JORDAN: You're the guy -- you're the guy based on this, based on, I mean, I've seen -- I've seen church prayer chains that are easier to understand than this. Ambassador Taylor recalls that Mr. Morrison told.

Now, again, this is I hereby swear and affirm from Gordon Sondland. Ambassador Taylor recalls that Mr. Morrison told Ambassador that I told Mr. Morrison I conveyed this message to Mr. Yermak on September 1st --



MARQUARDT: Kent and Taylor were steadfast that hundreds of millions of dollars in crucial security aid and a meeting between the presidents in Washington were held back unless Ukraine promised the investigations.


DANIEL GOLDMAN, DEMOCRATIC COUNSEL: Mr. Kent, is pressuring Ukraine to conduct what I believe you've called political investigations, a part of U.S. foreign policy to promote the rule of law in Ukraine and around the world?

KENT: It is not.

GOLDMAN: Is it in the national interest of the United States?

KENT: In my opinion, it is not.


MARQUARDT: Taylor calling it crazy.


TAYLOR: That security was so important for Ukraine, as well as our own national interest.

To withhold that assistance for no good reason other than help with the political campaign made no sense. It was -- it was counterproductive to all of what we have been trying to do. It was illogical. It could not be explained. It was crazy.


MARQUARDT: This is just the beginning. There are nine more people scheduled to testify in open hearings, next up on Friday is Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine who was recalled by President Trump in May after what she called a concerted campaign against her by Rudy Giuliani and his team.

Now she's suspected to speak more to the partisan game that she said she watched unfold in Ukraine. Also, on Friday, that aide to Ambassador Taylor whose name is David Holmes, he overheard that call between the president and Gordon Sondland, he will be testifying but behind closed doors.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

COOPER: Joining me now to talk more about the public hearings is CNN legal analyst Ross Garber. He also teaches political investigations and impeachment law at Tulane Law School and has represented four U.S. governors in impeachment proceedings.

Thank you so much for being with us.

ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's good to be with you.

CHURCH: So, let's start with that bombshell testimony Wednesday from top U.S. diplomat Bill Taylor involving a second phone call which apparently further ties President Trump to Ukraine pressure.

So, Taylor revealed he learned from a staff member that President Trump cared more about the investigation into his political rival Joe Biden, than he did about Ukraine. So how did that change the game and does it bolster the Democrats efforts to impeach the president?

GARBER: So, it may not have changed the game that much but it was -- it was definitely interesting, apparently there was a, as you said, another phone call that an aide overheard. This is a phone call from the president to another individual.

Now that aide is, we hear scheduled to testify in a closed session later this week so we're going to learn more about exactly what that aide heard the president say and what he heard the person who the president spoke with say.

CHURCH: And you don't think these changes anything until we hear from that staff member?

GARBER: Yes. I think -- I think we've got to hear exactly what the president said and what the impression the listener had based on the testimony today. Although that sort of thirdhand, the impression seems to be --

CHURCH: Right.

GARBER: -- that the president cared very much about an investigation of the Bidens. But again, I think we need to hear a little bit more about what was actually said from the person who heard it.

CHURCH: OK. And of course, at a press conference President Trump was asked about this bombshell testimony and he said that he heard it was a joke and he didn't watch one minute, that was specifically his words, one minute, of the hearings. He also said he couldn't remember the newly revealed phone call. What's your response to that?

GARBER: Yes. Well, it's interesting he didn't remember it. That may make it difficult for him to contest what the account of it was. He may continue to not remember or maybe later he'll remember it and have a different sense of it, but again, I think we've got to learn a little bit more about, you know, what was said in terms of the president kind of not watching it and thinking it was a joke. Perhaps he didn't watch it, but I think he is definitely taking this seriously.

CHURCH: Right. And Republicans appear to be trying to use the so what defense, essentially saying if Mr. Trump didn't get the results from his effort to extort then you can't impeach him. How does that argument stand up?

GARBER: Yes. As a legal matter, not very well. You know, an attempt to commit a crime in the United States is still a crime. On a practical level, though, on a sort of human level, it may actually resonate. It may make a difference to people who were listening that nothing bad actually happened that something was threatened and the president wanted something to happen, but it didn't actually come to fruition. That may be something that resonates with the average person.


CHURCH: Yes. And lots of partisan squabbling at the hearings not surprisingly, who came out on top do you think? The Republicans or the Democrats? And who got the most traction with their line of questioning? GARBER: Yes. So, this was day one. I think the chairman of the

committee did a very good job keeping control of the committee. There actually weren't that many shenanigans. There weren't that many -- it wasn't that much partisan bickering.

I think the chairman had to control over what was going on. I think the questioning was largely effective and the Democrats I think did what they came into do. I think, you know, the witnesses came across as credible and serious and not biased and very, very truthful.

Now the Republicans scored some points. And overall, I think the question will still be once this is done, is it enough? Does it resonate enough with the American people and their representatives in Congress? That the president of the United States should be the first president ever in the history of our country removed through the impeachment process?

CHURCH: Yes. And more hearings of course will be held Friday with former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch and others testifying publicly. And then of course next week, we'll all be waiting to hear what you U.S. Ambassador to the E.U. Gordon Sondland says in response to this newly revealed phone call he had with the president, and of course from that staff member we just discussed. What will you be looking for in all of that?

GARBER: Yes. So, I think Gordon Sondland is going to wind up being the key witness because he is the person who we know had direct interactions with the president's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.

We heard today about an official channel of diplomacy between the United States and Ukraine and what was described as an irregular channel of diplomacy between the United States and Ukraine with which the president's personal lawyer was involved.

That's something that nobody has yet explained very well. Why is the president's personal lawyer is looking out for his personal interests involve at all in diplomacy? I think Gordon Sondland's testimony may actually shed some light on that.

CHURCH: So many questions. We're looking for all those answers, aren't we? Ross Garber, thank you so much for joining us and for your analysis. We appreciate it.

GARBER: Good to be with you.

CHURCH: Well, the next few hours are said to be critical in Gaza as a ceasefire between Israel and the Islamic Jihad appears to be holding.

Palestinians say 34 people have been killed by Israeli airstrikes in some of the worst cross-border fighting in months.

CNN's Melissa Bell is live this hour in Ashkelon, Israel. She joins us now. So, Melissa, what all are you learning about the ceasefire?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been watching very closely for any sounds of sirens over the course of the last few hours. There were some in the immediate aftermath of the announcement of that ceasefire in the very early hours of this morning. A ceasefire that sort to bring to an end of more than 48 hours of fighting between Islamic Jihad and Israeli defense forces.

Those guys have been quiet since about 7 a.m. several hours now. It looks then that ceasefire is holding the result of frantic mediation by both the United Nations and Egypt with has proven crucial in the end to bringing to an end this latest round of fighting.

Fighting, Rosemary, that really threatened for the first time in years to escalate into a fully-blown conflict.

Islamic Jihad rockets being fired towards southern Israel. Day two of the counter offensive from Gaza street militants in retaliation for this. The assassination strike by Israel in the early hours of Tuesday morning on the home of Baha Abu al-Ata, one of the senior commanders of Islamic Jihad, with funerals for him and his wife held on Tuesday.

A strike aimed at protecting Israel according to the country's prime minister with far-reaching effect.


BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): There is a genuine change here in the equation because the terrorist leaders and the last of their militants now know that we can reach them in their hiding places with surgical precision and take action against them.


BELL: Occasional rocket fire from Gaza has been a constant in this part of Israel, but in September just ahead of the Israeli election, it became personal for Benjamin Netanyahu. The Israeli prime minister reportedly furious at being rushed offstage in Ashdod at the familiar sound in this part of Israel of sirens.


After Tuesday morning's airstrike southern Israel hearing and seeing more than just the sirens. With hundreds of rockets fired from Gaza, but more than 90 percent of them intercepted by Israel's missile defense system, Iron Dome, according to the Israeli military.

So that instance like this near-missed on a road near Ashdod were not as frequent as they might have been.

Meanwhile, in Gaza, Israeli airstrikes have since Tuesday morning killed dozens of Palestinian militants, some civilians too. Among them, a seven-year-old boy.

With retaliation vowed through joint statements of Gaza's militant factions, but for now and crucially no military retaliation from Gaza's leading force, Hamas.

I think that last part of, Rosemary, bears repeating and insisting upon, we had been looking these last few days to see whether Islamic Jihad would be joined by the Gaza strip's main group Hamas in the fighting. It was not. And I think that probably prove crucial in the ceasefire being brought about in the early hours of this morning. And that huge escalation that was feared ultimately being avoided.

Now since that ceasefire was announced and appears to be holding, we've been hearing from the Israeli defense forces its justification of that targeted killing assassination which kicked this latest round off on Tuesday morning. They say that it was necessary to ensuring the long-term stability of the region.

We've also been hearing from Islamic Jihad it's boasting about the conditions extracted as a result of this ceasefire. And they include, Rosemary, the end of targeted killing assassinations restraint by Israeli by Israel forces against those demonstrators who make their way every Friday to defense from the Gazan side and an easing of the blockade.

So, all sides claiming some kind of victory over the course of the last few days. And I think in the end if we've learned anything over the course of the last few days, it isn't so much the fragility of the status quo, but in fact its strength, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes, indeed. Melissa Bell bringing us that live report on the ceasefire from Israel. Many thanks.

Well, Donald Trump hosted his Turkish counterpart in Washington Wednesday. The U.S. president welcomed Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the White House despite bipartisan concerns about Turkey's military incursion into northern Syria, and its purchase of a Russian missile system.

Mr. Trump says the ceasefire in Syria is holding well and both the U.S. and Turkey are getting along with the Kurds. Just take a listen to the praise he heaped on the Turkish leader.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It's a great honor to be with President Erdogan. The president and I have been, we've been very good friends. We've been friends for a long time, almost from day one.

I'm a big fan of the president. You're doing a fantastic job for the people of Turkey. And by the way, I think the president he may have some factions within the Kurds, but I think the president has a great relationship with the Kurds. Many Kurds live currently in Turkey and they're happy and they're taken care of.


CHURCH: Well, CNN's Gul Tuysuz is live this hour in Istanbul. She joins us now. So, Gul, President Trump going to great lengths there to shower praise on Turkey's leader. Talk to us about what came out of that meeting and how it's being received across Turkey. GUL TUYSUZ, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL PRODUCER: Well, the meeting

between Donald Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan really comes at a critical time in the U.S.-Turkish relationship. It is at an all-time low. And it's not just one issue but a series of critical issues that the two countries are at odds over.

And there has been a lot of public statements back and forth between the two countries over these issues.

Now this comes right in the heels of Turkey's incursion into Syria. Turkey views the Syrian Democratic Forces right up along its border as a critical national security threat and has launched this incursion to try to expel them back.

Now that same group, the Syrian Democratic Forces is of course the U.S.' main ally in the fight against ISIS in Syria. So, there has been a lot of developments and a lot of criticism coming from the U.S. about Turkey's incursion.

And in this particular meeting between Trump and Erdogan, a critical moment came when Trump invited Republican critics of Turkey to join in, effectively giving Erdogan a platform to explain how Ankara view some of these issues that plague the Turkish-American relationship.

But also, perhaps to show that when it comes to proposed sanctions on Turkey, his hands are tied, that it is what the Senate and Congress to make decisions on those kinds of steps. But a very important opening of dialogue because while Trump and Erdogan have a good relationship, this relationship between the two countries is of course strength.


Another issue that was on the table is Turkey's purchase of Russian made air defense systems, the S-400s. Now, not much has changed when it comes to that. Publicly, Turkey coming out and once again saying that they're holding their position but that they are open to buying American patriot missiles if the conditions are right. So no, not a lot of change there.

But really, this meeting took place at a time where this relationship couldn't be any lower. And whether or not anything comes out of this, at least publicly we've seen just a holding of the detente between the two countries, but whether or not there will be any breakthrough is something we'll just have to wait and watch to see whether or not it comes through. Rosemary?

CHURCH: And we will certainly be watching. Gul Tuysuz, many thanks to you bringing us that live report from Istanbul. I appreciate it.

Well, the Italian city or Venice is reeling from catastrophic flooding. The worst in 50 years. And the mayor says the damage is enormous and costly.

Plus, a new warning from U.S. health authorities the Centers for Disease Control says drug resistant superbugs killed more than 35,000 people in the U.S. a year. More on those stunning numbers when we return.




CHURCH: Live pictures there of Venice, Italy, the fabled city of bridges and it sure needs them today. An extremely high tide on Tuesday caused massive flooding. The city's mayor says it's brought the city to its knees and the damage caused could cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

Scott McLean has our report.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You'd be hard-pressed to find a prettier place to take a quick dip but this isn't a river or lake, it's St. Mark's Square in Venice. Italy's famous lagoon is used to flooding. It even has an alarm system to warn residents of rising waters.

But climate change is making sea levels rise which inevitably makes Venice's annual flooding worse. High tide on Tuesday night peaked at 187 centimeters just over six feet. That's the highest level since 1966.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): For us Venetians it's something we used to one meter 30. We expected one-forty, one-fifty, and in fact it's 40 centimeters higher than expected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): One meter, 87. I've never seen this before in my life. And with that scary wind there was a hurricane, I can tell you that it's really something horrible.


MCLEAN: Just under half the city found itself underwater. The city's mayor place to blame squarely on climate change. Not even the dead can rest easy. For just the sixth time in 1,200 years The Crypt at St. Mark's Basilica was inundated with water. Churches' patriarch said it's a sight he have never seen before. It's not unlikely he'll see it again.

Scott McLean, CNN, London.

CHURCH: Just incredible images there. And our meteorologist Pedram Javaheri joins us now with more on this. And what might this signal for the future, Pedram? That's the concern, isn't it?

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. You know, I mean, you hear the story of the six times in some 1,200 years seeing the St. Mark's Basilica take on water. Four of those times, Rosemary, have happened since the 1990s. So, you kind of begin to see this trend of seeing the water rise very

quickly, and of course, get to levels we have not seen before. And the images as incredible as they come when it comes to seeing the water, of course take on, not only the areas you expect them to, but across some of the properties, some of the hotels across the region as well.

But that 197 centimeters does come in the highest since 1966 when it was 194 centimeters, it is the second highest since 1923 when records began being kept across this particular region.

But you kind of heard the officials talk about when you see those levels at 110, at 140, and beyond 140 centimeters, that's off the top of the charts when it comes to the exceptional nature of this particular tide.

So, closing in on 190 is pretty incredible to say the least. And we know reports of at least 80 plus percent of the city taking on some water at the height of this particular event. And again, only the six time in some 1,200 years St. Mark's Basilica taking on water as well across the region.

But this is the storm system responsible. Look at this massive system in line here, an impressive symmetry in organization, also a lot of cold air associated with this next system that is diving through the south. So, with that, we expect additional rounds of gusty winds come Friday.

And of course, the Sirocco winds as they're known and you get winds that come right off of Africa, it funnel themselves through portions of the Adriatic and you get the end result which is a very low-lying city in Venice.

And of course, you factor in that we had a full moon in the past 36 or so hours, the southern winds coming in and of course it is the climatological peak of the aqua alto or high water that takes place every year this time of year.

So, the pattern really going to be unsettled the next couple of days and you'll notice going into Friday kind of the color contour as educate what we are talking about as far as wind speeds are concerned, 40, 50, and 60-kilometer-per-hour winds possible going in towards a Friday afternoon, Rosemary. So certainly not over with yet for another round of this come Friday.

CHURCH: Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much, Pedram. I appreciate it.

JAVAHERI: Thank you. You bet.

CHURCH: Well, next on CNN Newsroom, Turkey's president is warning he could flood Europe with captured ISIS fighters. But can he actually carry out that threat? We will take a look when we come back.



Rosemary Church. I want to check the headlines for you this hour. The U.S. impeachment hearings, Bill Taylor, the top U.S. Diplomat in Ukraine revealed a previously unknown call between the E.U. ambassador and President Trump. He said it was about opening investigations to help Mr. Trump politically and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent said Trump lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, tried to join up politically motivated investigations.

Let's take it far between Israel and the Islamic Jihad appears to be back in effect in Gaza after some of the worst cross border fighting in months. Palestinian officials say 34 people have been killed and at least 100 civilians murdered by the latest Israeli airstrikes in Gaza.

The U.S. relations with Turkey might be strained, but the two countries both want European ISIS fighters to face trial back in their home countries. It's a proposal not all European nations are on board with as Nic Robertson reports.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Smiles and the handshakes here at the White House. But at home, Turkish President Erdogan has been a less-than-favorable ally. Even turning on his NATO partners in Europe and could buy their coals to (inaudible) Turkey's oil drilling in the Mediterranean threatening them with a flood of captured ISIS fighters.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translator): This doors to Europe will open in this Islamic state members will be sent to you.

ROBERTSON: He doubled down on his message in D.C.

TAYYIP ERDOGAN: Right now in our prisons, a total of 1200 (inaudible) members are incarcerated coming from 40 different countries.

ROBERTSON: On this, Erdogan getting Trump's backing not for the first time Trump demanding NATO allies step up.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Many of them left France and they left Germany and they left U.K. They left different countries and these countries should help us.

ROBERTSON: The French like most other European nations are opposed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): France wants them to be a judge near the place where they committed their crimes and we do not wish to bring them back.

ROBERTSON: Erdogan's threats touch a rural nerve and he knows it. Battle harden ISIS fighters on Europe streets are in their jails for a potential danger.


Reality is though, the Turkish president doesn't have the leverage, he implies.

Most jailed ISIS fighters are beyond Erdogan's control in makeshift detentions camps in Syria with about 60,000 ISIS families and fighters held there, only about 800 are hardcore European foreign fighters. U.S. officials say they have custody of all high value ISIS foreign fighters and despite concerns Turkish-Syria offensive would lead to breakouts. According to one European security source, only five ISIS affiliated European fighters escaped. But no one could guarantee there won't be more foreign fighters break outs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could they become the opposite class of future global terror networks? These are -- many of them experienced killers and the warriors that will kill again.

ROBERTSON: The number of foreign fighters who may still be alive according to the U.N. is up to 30,000 of which up to 1,000 could be unaccounted for Europeans. And this is where Erdogan does have some leverage, but at the end of the day both sides need each other.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Europeans have been helping the Turks and the Turks had been helping the Europeans and that's been making both sides safer.

ROBERTSON: How Erdogan's D.C. experience pans out this week could go some way to easing concerns all round, or not. Nic Robertson, CNN, London.


CHURCH: And it will take a break. Here still to come a new reports of superbugs are getting smarter. They can beat the toughest antibiotics and anyone can catch them anywhere. Will have the details for you on the other side of the break. Stay with us.


CHURCH: Their small but smart. No, we are not talking about the latest handheld device but about superbugs. A new report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says these bugs can beat most antibiotics and every 15 minutes someone in the U.S. dies from a superbug infection. That's about 35,000 deaths a year.

Joining me now to talk more about this is Dr. Seema Yasmin, she is the Director of the Stanford Health Communication Initiative, good to have you with us.


CHURCH: So a growing list of drug resistant superbugs, who is most at risk and how concerned should we all be about this?

YASMIN: The concerning thing, Rosemary here is that we have all known, I think for a while that antibiotic resistance was one of the biggest global health threats right now. One of the top threats to public health. [03:40:05]

This new report though is showing that it's even bigger of a problem than we thought it was. The last time the CDC published a report like this was in 2013 and it turns out that those numbers may have been massive underestimates. So, what we are seeing now with this new methods and new data sets and new analysis, is that more than 3 million Americans every year our sicken either by antibiotic resistant bug or a bug related to one of those and then about 50,000 Americans die every year from these infections.

And in fact, I was reading the report today and it was really sad, because it starts with a dedication to the nearly 50,000 Americans who die every year from these infections and it's really people across the board, very young children and older adults can be more vulnerable, but it's also a transplant patients, anybody with a weaken immune system. So, this really affects people from all walks of life in all ages.

CHURCH: Right. Yes, the numbers are absolutely shocking aren't they? And part of the solution apparently is to use less antibiotics. Not more. Should people let their bodies fight off most bacterial infections before heading to the doctor for antibiotics? What's the best advice that you can give on that?

YASMIN: So, of course you want to see a doctor, right? So you want someone with expert advice to look at your symptoms and look at how you are doing and then make that decision. The problem is the decades, now we have been over using these kind of magical drugs. You know, I think about pre-penicillin days, when people died of infections that many of us will have a few times in our lives now.

Even today though, Rosemary, there are studies showing that one third of prescriptions with antibiotics in the U.S. and out-patients in some places are unnecessary. So, the onus is on doctors, it's also on patients to get that good advice, but it is a complicated problem. You know, agricultural industries have a role to play in this as well. A massive overuse of antibiotics in agriculture, pump into animals which then goes into the environment and the facts us too.

And I have to say, that even though the numbers in this report are scary and they're much bigger than we thought, if you talk to some other scientists like researchers at Washington University, they'll tell you that the death toll is even higher. That it is not 50,000 Americans who die every year, but 153,000. So, really big differences in the analysis here.

CHURCH: Right, and if you consider there the figures for America, imagine it globally. So, how are these superbugs outsmarting even the most sophisticated antibiotics and what efforts underway to come up with perhaps better, maybe stronger, antibiotics to fight of these superbugs?

YASMIN: These bugs, to be honest, have always been smarter than us. It's been around longer than us too, and of course it is in the mechanism and the survival instincts of any organism to try and outwit whatever tries to kill it. So, that's what these bacteria are doing. It's just by over using them, misusing them, not finishing a course of antibiotics. We really let them gather strength. So, that is a concern here, is being really good skewered of antibiotics and we haven't been doing that.

CHURCH: Dr. Seema Yasmin, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

YASMIN: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And thank you for watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Rosemary Church, World Sports starts after this short break. Have yourself a great day.