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Rep. Nunes Is Alleged To Have Personally Met With Former Ukrainian Officials, Talked About Investigating Joe Biden; 2020 Election Being Overshadowed By Impeachment; DOJ Report Expected To Find Proper Legal Basis For FBI's Russia Probe But Mistakes Were Made; Sondland Testified Pompeo Knew About Quid Pro Quo; Witnesses Debunk GOP Conspiracy Theory Ukraine Interfered In 2016 Election, Not Russia; John Bolton Breaks His Silence On Twitter; Shep Smith Breaks His Silence & Defends Press. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 23, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:06]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for being here.

Breaking news right now. You will only see this right here. It's exclusive to CNN. A line now might be drawn between the accusations leveled at President Trump that may lead to his impeachment and one of the men defending him the hardest in Congress, Republican Devin Nunes. Remember Nunes was literally participating in the impeachment inquiry leading the minority Republicans of the House intelligence committee questioning witnesses.

Here's what we know. This man, Lev Parnas, you may remember, he and another man were arrested trying to flee the country last man, arrested right after lunch with President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. He worked with Giuliani to push claims of Democratic corruption in Ukraine.

Well now, Lev Parnas says exclusively to CNN through his lawyer that he wants to testify that the Ranking Member on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Nunes, personally met with former Ukrainian officials and that they also talked about investigating Joe Biden, the President's rival in next year's election and his son.

Again, Devin Nunes is the top Republican on that committee that spent the past two weeks questioning career diplomats ambassadors and current state department officials about what they have seen, heard, and interpreted around President Trump's phone calls with the President of Ukraine.

Nunes angrily and often called the impeachment inquiry a circus. Nunes had no response to CNN about this enormous new development but did tell an extreme rightly website that this entire report is quote "demonstrably false."

Now the connection to Rudy Giuliani, the President's personal attorney. Lev Parnas and others are now in trouble after working with Giuliani. And Parnas claims to have had a private meeting with President Trump where he got his marching orders. If you think Rudy Giuliani is nervous about going down, too, he says, no. The President will not throw him under the bus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Early and often. And have a very, very good relationship with him and all of these comments, which are totally insulting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

GIULIANI: And I mean, I have seen things written like, he's going to throw me under the bus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

GIULIANI: When I say that, he isn't, but I have insurance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now this is not the first time Rudy Giuliani has told an interviewer that he quote "insurance," protecting him from repercussions from the White House. The people close to Giuliani have said before that he is just kidding when he says that.

CNN Senior Reporter Vicky Ward is joining us now.

Vicky, you have much of this exclusive new reporting, this breaking news this hour. Tell us more about what you have learned. Exactly what Devin Nunes, the congressman, ranking member in the House intel committee is alleged to have done as it pertains to this Ukraine scandal and the impeachment inquiry.

VICKY WARD, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Right, Ana. So Devin Nunes went to Vienna last December to meet with former disgraced Ukraine prosecutor Victor Shoken. Victor Shoken is the man who claims he had evidence of corruption by Joe Biden. Now remember, he has an axe to grind against Joe Biden because Joe Biden along with western leaders had him fired in 2016 basically for not doing his job.

After that meeting Devin Nunes returns and he and an aide get in touch with Lev Parnas, Rudy Giuliani's business associate and also the guy that Rudy has enlisted to help him with his investigations in finding dirt on the Bidens and Ukraine and this other theory that, you know, Ukraine interfered somehow in our election which has been widely debunked.

Nunes and an associate enlist Parnas to help them. They ask Parnas who, remember, speaks Russian, Ana, to make calls for them, to introduce them to Ukrainian investigators who they think might have knowledge and evidence on the Bidens. And Parnas even sits in on the phone calls that a Nunes aide makes with two Ukrainian prosecutors.

CABRERA: Now this was last year is when this alleged meeting took place, is that right? WARD: The meeting is in December. And the timing of it is very

important and significant because it takes place deliberately at the beginning of December when the midterms had happened, the Republicans knew they had lost the House but before the Democrats actually took over in the new session. And the significance of that is that Devin Nunes knew he would not have to disclose the details of the trip.

The only thing that is in the congressional record is that he and three of his aides took a trip on the taxpayer's dime to Europe. And we know that it was deliberate because his aide, a man called Derek Harvey, told Lev Parnas whose lawyer is talking to us and says that Lev Parnas would like to say all of this to Congress.

[15:05:11]

CABRERA: And so Is there any reason to question Parnas' account? Is there any evidence to back up his claim given we have Nunes denying it altogether?

WARD: Well, we do know that Lev Parnas uses social media. There have been many photographs that have put him in rooms with the President. We reported last week. They were at the White House together having a secret meeting while there was a Hanukkah party going on.

When Lev Parnas was arrested it was reported all of his electronic devices were taken and are now in the possession of the government. Remember, he is facing indictment by the southern district of New York. His attorney has told me that he would not be making these claims were he not able to back them up with text messages, videos, photographs that are currently in the possession of the government.

CABRERA: So it sounds like he wants to testify. He wants to talk about this. Why hasn't he?

WARD: Well, he has been subpoenaed. His lawyer wants him basically to -- wants Congress to give him immunity so that he can speak freely without basically affecting his fifth amendment rights.

CABRERA: OK. So we will see. There's obviously much more to this reporting.

Thank you very much for that, Vicky. We appreciate it.

WARD: Yes. Thank you.

CABRERA: With us now is Republican presidential candidate and former Illinois congressman Joe Walsh.

First, I would like to get your reaction to this new reporting about congressman Nunes that alleges he is involved in this scheme that's at the heart of the impeachment inquiry that his committee, House intel committee is investigating.

JOE WALSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, Ana. Good to be with you. It's not surprising. Nunes ought to be investigated. But here's the

broader point. Devin Nunes is just a partisan act. But more importantly, Ana, all of my former Republican colleagues on that committee throughout these hearings, they had absolutely no interest in getting at the truth of what happened. You know, I have been thinking to myself all week, Ana. If I were still in the house, I'd vote to impeach this President. Of course I would. It's an easy call.

CABRERA: And you said that before. You've said that before, even before this latest impeachment investigations and the hearings that we have just had the last two weeks. And I want to just before you continue ask you though about the point you just made.

And that is, you know, even after we heard witness after witness, these non-partisan career officials, these expert fact witnesses trying to debunk the conspiracy theories about Ukraine meddling in the 2016 election, here's what Republican lawmakers said about that. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do think that there is ample evidence of Ukraine having engagement and involvement with things talking about a 2016 election -- more than evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says that is the kind of theory helps Russia, as the kind of theory that actually bolsters Russia's case. What Russia wants you to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What makes you think these are mutually exclusive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what she said. That's what she testified to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All Right. So That's her opinion. Well, that's her opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just testified to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she's welcome to her opinions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: This is also after we learned that U.S. intelligence officials have been warning lawmakers that Russia has been trying to frame Ukraine for its own 2016 election meddling.

Congressman, your former Republican colleagues have not been in the dark. They just won't believe the experts. They don't believe the facts. Why?

WALSH: Because all they care about is defending Trump. Again, Ana, I would vote if I were still there to impeach this President, but I'm struck by this. I would be the only Republican in the house who would vote to impeach this President. Ana, that's sad. I don't say that to sing my praises.

My praises. My praises. I say that to shame my former colleagues. They have decided, Ana, and this is disappointing, Jim Jordan, a good friend and all the rest, they have decided to defend the Republican party and not defend the republic. It's disgrace full.

CABRERA: But you are still part of that republican party. You're running in a Republican primary. So you haven't left the party.

WALSH: No, because in their eyes, Ana, in the eyes right now of Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes and all the rest, the Republican party is Trump. The Republican party is I have got to bow and worship Trump. That's Anathema (ph) to me, Ana. We have to grab that back. We have to grab the Republican party back and let the American people know about the principles we believe in and not worshiping some politician.

And, oh, by the way, when a President of the United States pressures a foreign government to sabotage our elections, that's disgraceful, that's impeachable, that's what we stand against. My Republican party right now, my colleagues, they refuse to acknowledge that.

[15:10:20]

CABRERA: You have said if you were still in the house you would vote to impeach this President. That's not a close call for you. And as you just pointed out, there's no indication that any Republicans are going to vote to impeach even those who aren't running for reelection who don't have to worry about being primaried, who haven't always been lock step with this President. People like Will Herd who sits on the intel committee. I mean, how do you explain?

WALSH: I've got a lot of respect, Ana, for Will Herd. That was so disappointing. Here's -- I think here is where it is. I think it's people like Sean Hannity. The people on FOX News, like Hannity, Ana who, let's be frank, who lie to everybody who listens to them and views them.

And so because Hannity and all the rest, they lie to the people who listen to them, Trump will keep his 35 percent of his supporters. He will keep his base because they are fed these lies every night.

And my former Republican colleagues in Congress, Ana, they are not afraid of Trump, they're afraid of Trump's voters. And if Trump's voters aren't going to move because they are fed lies by Hannity and all the rest, then unfortunately my former Republican colleagues aren't going to move either.

CABRERA: And yet the latest polling shows 90 percent of Republicans, when you talk about the voters, 90 percent of Republicans support the job the President is doing. Ninety one percent of Republicans oppose impeaching him. I mean, do you really expect GOP lawmakers to ignore those kinds of numbers?

WALSH: I don't believe those numbers, Ana. And the reason I don't believe those numbers is because I have been out campaigning in New Hampshire and Iowa speaking primarily to Republicans. And most Republicans out there that I speak with, Ana, they know the President did something wrong and they are tired of all of his B.S. And now it's difficult to convince them to vote for somebody else, but I'm certainly going to try. And, look --

CABRERA: Why is it so difficult to convince them to vote for somebody else like yourself if they are tired of the President's antics and they still want to vote for a Republican option?

WALSH: Well, I'll tell you, they need to see an alternative. And if I had God's money, if I had Michael Bloomberg's money, then they'd hear more readily about a Joe Walsh because almost everyone, Ana, that I get in front of, they say I'm tired of him, he has done some good things, but I'm sick and tired of him. Who's the alternative? And once they have an alternative, Ana, they are likely to move. I just have to get out there more.

But, Ana, this story is still evolving. We don't know what the Senate is going to do. We don't know what a trial is going to look like. This President did wrong. He betrayed the country. More and more Americans are going to learn of that.

CABRERA: Let me read you a tweet from legendary news man Dan Rather. He wrote this week, after all the hearings we have heard, the question is not whether the GOP will abandon Trump, we know the answer. The question is whether the country will abandon the GOP. What's your answer to that question?

WALSH: Oh, Ana, I'm scared to death. I'm absolutely scared to death that we've reached a point where we no longer have two viable political parties. Two political parties who put in front of the American people their principles that they believe in. That's not the Republican party right now. The Republican party right now worships Donald Trump. And as long as that's the case, Dan Rather's right, we don't have two viable political parties in this country. I aim to change that.

And by the way, Ana, we need more courageous Republicans to stick their neck out now against this President. What saddens me even more is so many of my former colleagues in congress, they agree with me about Donald Trump but they are afraid to speak out publicly. Shame on them. Shame on them.

CABRERA: Former Congressman and Republican 2020 Candidate Joe Walsh. Thank you very much for being here.

WALSH: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Is the 2020 election being over shadowed by impeachment? This week's democratic debate was the least watched of this cycle. Could Democrats' focus on impeachment be a losing strategy? We will discuss live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:27] CABRERA: The impeachment election is what every 2020 Democratic

candidate dreaded. Like it or not, it's in full swing. And while some argue exposing the evidence against the president will hurt Republicans, other including White House hopeful Andrew Yang warned that it's the Democrats who could feel the pain from this next November.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would hate to see half the field disappear to Washington for Senate proceedings, which looks like it could be the case given the timing. So to me that's one of the reasons why this impeachment process may not help the Democrats in 2020. I think that we need to be laser focused on solving the problems that got Donald Trump elected and that's the best way to beat him come November of next year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN Political Commentator and Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum and CNN Political Commentator and Democratic Strategist, Aisha Moodie-Mills are both here with me now.

Aisha, is this what Democrats feared, that impeachment would in effect suck up all of the oxygen going into the election year?

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure it's sucking up all of the oxygen so much that I think it's important that we get voters to be educated and energized going into the election. So I think it's good that people are more frankly glued to their TVs right now to figure out if the President has wrongdoing and if we should figure out how to hold him accountable because that is going to dictate how they go out and they vote come next November. So I don't think it's a bad thing that perhaps fewer people watched this last debate.

CABRERA: Right.

MOODIE-MILLS: And Frankly, the debates have gotten a bit redundant that it's kind of hard to watch them, right? So it matters to me that people are actually paying attention to the breadth and depth of our democracy. And folks are glued to their TV this week following to see what is going to happen.

[15:20:08] CABRERA: Mayor Gillum, that's a good point she makes that the debate seem like completely overshadowed but the impeachment hearings. In fact, it did deliver the smallest audience so far in a week of monster cable news viewership across the board. What does that tell you?

ANDREW GILLUM, CNN POLLICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I have got to agree with speaker Nancy Pelosi that this moment cannot be about the politics. The actions that are being taken right now by Democrats and by frankly the Congress and soon probably the United States Senate, these are not just actions for this moment, these are actions for the history. Over the arc of history we will look back on this moment and assess whether or not a President was held accountable for some of the most blatant illegal and corrupt actions that we have ever been able to witness as a nation.

And so, I find, you know, Mr. Yang's comments a little bit unfortunate. I'm glad to see that Democrats are quite frankly standing on the side of the constitution and are gearing up to hold this President accountable.

I have to tell you, I don't think that by the time we get around to October of next year that the conversation is going to be about impeachment or removal or whatever happens as a result of this process. To the extent that we are talking about it, it will be that Donald Trump is bringing it up. But I think the American people will have move forward and will be assessing the candidates on their merit and based off of who is going to present the best vision for the future of this country.

CABRERA: But this process does have an impact, right. Something lese Yang touched on is if Trump is impeached, an impeachment trial in the Senate would pull multiple Democratic candidates off of the campaign trail around a very crucial time heading into the caucuses and primary season. And we know five of the ten people who are on the debate stage this week, Aisha, are senators so they would be there. What do you see as the impact of that scenario to their campaign?

MOODIE-MILLS: Well, I would be really cautious about any sitting United States senator that in some way was frustrated that they had to go back to work and do their jobs as opposed to be out on the campaign trail trying to get their next job. So I think that the people who are running for office, especially always comes to mind for me, senator Harris, I think that they are people who function really well in their current roles in the Senate. And it will be interesting and nice to be reminded of that and to see them in action as they sit there and they watch as the jury with regards to this trial.

So I think that it is problematic to have any of these candidates suggest that this is over shadowing them running for office when, in fact, this is the business of the American people that needs to be done right now.

CABRERA: Go ahead, mayor.

GILLUM: Well, Aisha, if I could just agree real quick. The folks that I know want to know that you do the job that you have right now well before they advance you to the next one. And so -- and by the way, the candidates who are going to have to come back and be jurors in this, I think to a person have all said that they are looking forward to taking their responsibilities soberly as they sit as jurors and, again, one of the most historic moments that we have seen, certainly in my generation but that we've seen in a long time.

CABRERA: Let's get to Michael Bloomberg for a moment. He bought at least 37 million in TV ads. I understand these are anti-Trump ads, not specifically Michael Bloomberg ads. But I mean, that's more than the entire democratic field has spent this race so far excluding fellow billionaire, Tom Steyer. Senator Bernie Sanders blasted this ad by said that's quote "I am a

little old-fashioned. I believe in democracy, one person, one vote. I'm disgusted by the idea that Michael Bloomberg or any other billionaire thinks they can circumvent the political process and spent tens of millions of dollars to buy our election.

Aisha, is that the best way to play this? I mean, given we don't know whether Bloomberg for sure is getting into the race, but I mean, his money could be useful in the long run, right, up against the Trump fundraising juggernaut?

MOODIE-MILLS: Sure. And I have said time and time again that if the billionaire's boys club really wants to help get rid of Donald Trump and advance Democrats in this election, there's a lot of things they could do with their money.

Running the ads that are anti-Trump ads, sure, that's a great contribution to the public discourse perhaps. They could be investing in tackling voter efforts that are happening all around this country. They can also be registering more voters. They can also be putting their money towards pushing back towards against the disinformation campaign that is stifling democratic voters particularly African- Americans.

So there's a lot of money that these billionaires could be spending to really boost our election process as opposed to lift themselves up. And I think that's a fair criticism about, you know, whether it be Tom Steyer, whether it be Bloomberg, spending their own money trying to advance themselves when there's an entire ecosystem around our democracy that very much needs their support. And to be fair they have done that over time.

CABRERA: Bloomberg is investing and look what happened in the election last month in Virginia, for example, in which he was credited largely for the money he spent helping some of the candidates to flip that state's legislature.

Mayor Gillum, I'll give you the final thoughts.

[15:25:05]

GILLUM: Well, first of all, somebody on the Democratic side has to be running these ads and illuminating for the American people who are not glued to their television screens for debates or even the impeachment proceedings to put front and center the damage that this particular President has caused this country.

So I will just say personally, I'm glad to see that Bloomberg is using his money to run these ads that are not necessarily self-promoting but are calling out the efforts and quite frankly the damage of this President.

Ultimately, the people are going to be the final arbiters of this. I think both of the case of Steyer and Bloomberg, while they are both billionaires, they have a record that they can talk a little bit about, whether on climate change or as a mayor. And I wont opine whether these a all good records, but they are without a doubt a record. But ultimately we are going to be the final arbiters of this. And I trust that the democratic electorate will put forth the best candidate to win this race come November.

CABRERA: Mayor Gillum, Aisha Moodie-Mills, thank you both.

MOODIE-MILLS: Thank you.

CABRERA: We are just days away from another big investigative report, the reveal of the FBI's handling of the 2016 Russia investigation we are told is complete. And there's new information on what the report found was proper and what is described as sloppiness.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:27]

CABRERA: President Trump has repeatedly called the FBI's investigation into Russia's ties to his 2016 presidential campaign a witch hunt or a hoax.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now we're being hindered by the Russian hoax. It's a hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: But a much-anticipated report into how the FBI conducted its probe may come up with a very different conclusion.

The report won't be public until December 9th but already sources are telling CNN, while the report is critical of some of what the FBI did, it also debunks the president's hoax claims.

CNN's Crime and Justice Reporter, Shimon Prokupecz, is joining us now.

Shimon, what have you learned?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: It's going to debunk -- that's the big thing in all of this, this idea that somehow the leadership, the FBI, that the president has been claiming, Republicans have been claiming, others are claiming, that there's a conspiracy against Donald Trump to bring him down and that the FBI was part of this conspiracy and using this investigation to perpetrate this conspiracy. Well, this report is going to debunk that entire thing.

In fact, what the report is going to say is that the FBI was right in opening this investigation, was right in getting even the FISA, this very intrusive warrant on Carter Page.

The issue that -- the one thing that the report is going to find, that there was sloppiness on the part of the FBI. In particular, there was a low level -- someone that's been described as a lower-level FBI attorney, who doctored some emails. That is something that the inspector general took issue with and referred for potential criminal charges.

But the whole notion of this idea that this report was going to come in and somehow help the president in this idea that he was being targeted specifically by the leadership of the FBI to take him down, they did not find any of that.

Obviously, sloppiness, things that go on in an investigation, that happens, and that isn't a part of this. And it's an important part for the inspector general to look at. That ultimately shouldn't happen. But there were things like that that did happen.

But ultimately, it's going to find that the FBI was right in opening this investigation.

CABRERA: Let me just do a quick follow-up with you, and that is there was something suspect here, right?

PROKUPECZ: Right.

CABRERA: There was this low-level attorney who altered a document, as they'll report. That's what Republicans -- that's what the president is going to grab onto as evidence or proof of what they've been saying all along, that people were out to get him, but that was part of this FISA warrant, right?

PROKUPECZ: Right.

CABRERA: Did the report find that that alteration had an impact in whether that FISA warrant should have been --

PROKUPECZ: No. What we're told --

CABRERA: -- I guess, you know, delivered?

PROKUPECZ: Right. What we're told is that, in no way -- just because of this alteration, it didn't affect the lethality of the FISA, that there was what has been described a correct and fair predicate to open this investigation, to get this FISA on Carter Page. All of that was OK.

It's -- there are other issues here and that could be the day-to-day back and forth between lower-level FBI agents and the seniority of the FBI. What were they sharing? What was being told and how they were handling certain parts of the investigation?

But overall -- and I think that's what's so important here -- that overall the investigation -- the FBI was right to open the investigation. There was no overall -- there was no big bias against the president. And the leadership of the FBI was not trying to bring down Donald Trump, who would ultimately become president.

CABRERA: Very important information.

Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for that reporting. New details about phone calls between Rudy Giuliani and Secretary of

State Mike Pompeo. Those calls occurring as Giuliani handed over undocuments of unproven claims against the Bidens.

[15:34:06]

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: In two weeks of public impeachment inquiry hearings, we saw several ambassadors and State Department officials under oath on Capitol Hill. But so far, the Secretary of State himself, Pompeo, has declined to speak at length about what he saw and heard in President Trump's dealings with the president of Ukraine.

Now one of Mike Pompeo's own officials, in his testimony, threw some light on the secretary of state's role.

CNN's Kylie Atwood has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER (voice-over): It's a subject the secretary of state has repeatedly dismissed.

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Even while all this noise is going on, you all are fixated on this.

I'm not going to get into the issues surrounding the Democratic impeachment inquiry.

ATWOOD: But now one of his own ambassadors has placed him squarely in the middle of the story.

GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE E.U.: Everyone was in the loop.

ATWOOD: Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the E.U., told lawmakers Pompeo knew about the quid pro quo with Ukraine and claimed he did nothing to stop it.

SONDLAND: We kept the leadership of the State Department and the NSC informed of our activities and that included communications with Secretary of State Pompeo.

ATWOOD: Sondland came with proof, multiple emails he sent to Pompeo. In one, he laid out a plan to get President Zelensky to commit, quote, "on those issues of importance to POTUS and the U.S.," meaning investigations that would politically benefit President Trump.

Sondland hoped, he told Pompeo, that this proposal could, quote, "break the logjam."

Pompeo replied, "Yes."

SONDLAND: -- and the White House.

ATWOOD: While Sondland delivered testimony in Washington, Pompeo was in Brussels, expressing disinterest.

POMPEO: I didn't see a single thing today. I was working. Sounds like you may not have been.

ATWOOD: A State Department spokesperson put out a statement, denying Sondland's allegations. "Gordon Sondland never told Secretary Pompeo that he believed the president was linking aid to investigations of political opponents. Any suggestions to the contrary is flat-out false."

[15:40:13]

But in October, Pompeo admitted he was listening in on the now- infamous Trump/Zelensky call on July 25th, where Trump made that ask.

Pompeo, an ardent defender of President Trump, saw nothing wrong with that call and has alleged election interference by former Vice President Joe Biden based on no evidence.

POMPEO: America cannot have our elections interfered with. And if that's what took place there, if there was that activity engaged in by Vice President Biden, we need to know.

ATWOOD: Last month, when asked about holding up foreign assistance for a political initiative, the exact thing that Sondland believes Pompeo knew about, Pompeo said this.

POMPEO: I never saw that in the decision-making process that I was a part of.

ATWOOD: Pompeo has made the decision not to defend career foreign service officers by name, even after Trump smeared Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch with a tweet erroneously claiming that everywhere she went turned bad.

POMPEO: I don't have anything to say. I'll defer to the White House about particular statements and the like.

ATWOOD: One possible off-ramp for Pompeo --

TRUMP (voice-over): They love him in Kansas.

ATWOOD: The president appearing to give Pompeo an exit strategy, adding to the speculation that Pompeo will leave his job to run for Senate.

TRUMP (voice-over): If he thought there was a chance of losing that seat, I think he would do that and he would win in a landslide.

ATWOOD (on camera): Now, Republicans are fearful that they could lose that Kansas Senate seat to the Democrats if Secretary of State Mike Pompeo doesn't jump in the race. Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has been very upfront about the fact that he wants Pompeo to run.

And Pompeo came into the State Department promising to revitalize the department, to boost the morale. But there are fears that, if he leaves now, his failure to defend career foreign service officers amid this Ukraine impeachment inquiry, could have an outsized impact on his legacy as secretary of state.

Kylie Atwood, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR & ANCHOR: This is the world's first commercial carbon capture machine, a porous vacuum built by Climeworks to siphon carbon dioxide from this Swiss valley's ambient air. The long-term plan is to store the CO2 in underground bolsophic (ph) rock formations.

In the meantime, they found another use from the captured carbon with Coca-Cola Switzerland.

PATRICK WITTWEILER, HEAD OF SUSTAINABILITY, COCA-COLA SWITZERLAND: There is actually no difference to a common standard CO2. So the bubbles -- they are delivered from the Climeworks installation in a liquid form, then the CO2 goes then into the -- into the mixer unit. And there, the CO2 is dissolved into the product.

And it's a technology which fights against the climate change and, therefore, yes, we strongly believe it makes sense.

DEFTERIOS: John Defterios, CNN

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:21]

CABRERA: This week's public impeachment hearing saw stunning revelations and allegations involving some of the highest-ranking officials in the White House. Throughout the hearings, Republicans continued to bring up a conspiracy theory that multiple witnesses shot down over and over again.

Here's the Trump administration's former top Russia expert, Fiona Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIONA HILL, FORMER WHITE HOUSE RUSSIA EXPERT: Based on questions and statements I've heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that, perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did.

This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And yet, this is what we heard from the president's allies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): I do think that there's ample evidence of Ukraine having engagement and involvement with things talking about our 2016 election so far. I think there's more than enough evidence.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Because she says that kind of theory helps Russia. That is the kind of theory that actually bolsters Russia's case and what Russia wants you to say.

ROY: What makes -- what makes you think this is mutually exclusive?

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: She said -- she testified to this.

ROY: All right, so that's her opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Not only is that theory debunked, but Russia created it and perpetuated it in a year's-long campaign. And intelligence officials have told Congress as much.

Joining us now, Chief Media Correspondent and Anchor of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter.

Brian, how much substance from these hearings are actually filtering through to people who are watching FOX News or listening to conservative radio?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: The ratings were high for FOX News but then, in primetime, at the end of the day, the people getting the last word are the president's loyal boosters like Sean Hannity, who are saying this is bogus, this is a fake sham of an impeachment process and it needs to be ended right now.

On the one hand, these hosts are saying there's nothing to see here. On the other hand, they're saying, this needs to end right away. There's a little bit of a contradiction there.

We are, Ana, in two Americas with two different news worlds now, one much more fact based than the other. And those conspiracy theories about Ukraine are an example of the other alternative universe very untethered from the facts.

CABRERA: We have sound from Sean Hannity.

Do we have that, guys?

Maybe we don't after all. We may have somebody else who's been talked about multiple times

during the course of all of these hearings, John Bolton.

STELTER: Yes.

CABRERA: He is breaking his silence --

STELTER: Yes.

CABRERA: -- this week on Twitter, even though he's refused to talk to Congress. I mean, he's said a lot of mysterious things on social media. What's going on here?

[15:50:58]

STELTER: He's been coming under withering criticism for this. Because he is out there saying he's regained control of his Twitter account, suggesting somehow the White House was trying to block him from using it.

More, importantly, he's out there today saying it's time to speak up again and promoting his political action committee, asking people for donations in order that he can make political donations.

So he's out there, he's active on social media. But he's not testifying. And many of the replies on social media are saying, why won't you testify.

We also know he's working on a book that's due out before Election Day next year.

But so far, he's letting the legal process happen in the courts so his testimony is required by judges. That's going to take a long time if it ever happens at all.

So I think he is coming under a lot of criticism for being active on Twitter, saying he wants to speak out, but not being willing to tell us what he knows about what happened in the Trump White House with regards to Ukraine.

CABRERA: Somebody else breaking their silence this week in public, Shep Smith, the former FOX News anchor, who left abruptly about a month ago. He came out this week defending the press. What was his message?

STELTER: Yes. This was his first public appearance since abruptly quitting FOX more than a month ago. He was speaking at the Committee to Protect Journalists dinner in New York City.

He talked about vilification of the press happening around the world. He said we don't have to look far for that these days, clearly a reference to President Trump and the president's attacks against the media.

I think this was Shep, for the first time, starting to reenter the public -- you know, the kind of public life after having a long- deserved vacation. I think he'll could back on TV sooner rather than later.

CABRERA: All right, Brian Stelter, as always, good to have you here.

STELTER: Thanks. Thank you.

CABRERA: And make sure you tune in tomorrow morning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern for Brian's show, "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Rudy Giuliani's indicted associate claims Congressman Devin Nunes took part in an orchestrated effort to smear Joe Biden and his son. Could the allegations jeopardize the Republican's defense of a president?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:36]

CABRERA: In the United States, domestic violence is a leading cause of injury to women. And many of these women have pets they love, they don't want to leave behind if they flee the abuse. Yet only 3 percent of domestic violence shelters accept animals.

One of this year's top-10 "CNN Heroes" came up with a groundbreaking solution to keep women and their pets together. Meet Stacy Alonzo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BARKING)

STACI ALONZO, CNN HERO: Noah's Animal House is built right on the campus of the women's shelters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good boy.

ALONZO: So that women fleeing an abusive relationship don't have to choose between leaving and leaving their pets behind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

ALONZO: We have had clients from 21 states. They're driving thousands of miles. That tells you the need and that tells you the power of the relationship between the woman and the pet.

When you watch the woman come through the door and then they see their pet --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I missed you.

ALONZO: -- everything's right in the world for a little while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Stacy has housed more than 1,500 animals for women who have traveled from all over the country to find safety. Go to CNNheroes.com to vote for her for "CNN Hero" of the year or any of your favorite top-10 heroes.

We'll be right back.

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