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Cuomo Prime Time
Sources: GOP-Led Senate Committee Cleared Ukraine Of Election Interference Back In 2017; New GOP Report Defends Trump, Claims No Wrongdoing; Ex-FBI Lawyer Lisa Page Breaks Her Silence. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 02, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --insisted that his phony Renoir is the real deal, which maybe tells you a little something about how he views the entire deal-making process, and not in a good way.
Maybe the President's interest in seeing his own face on magazines and TV screens, maybe that's going to lessen in coming years, but then again, how many other 73-year old billionaires turned presidents do you know, who's egos have shrunk over time? Yes, me neither.
So, take out your pens and pencils. Paint a portrait of the President. It might get you entree into the United States or at least a quick cameo on The Ridiculist.
That's it for us. The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Thank you, Anderson. I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
This President is peddling fake conspiracy theories to cover his own real wrongs. Period!
We have two new pieces of reporting that reveal that Republicans were well aware of this Ukraine nonsense, and they looked into it in their Senate Intel Committee. What were the results? We have them.
And we're going to dig into a troubling question tonight. Did this call that the President claims vindicates him with EU Ambassador Sondland, did it ever happen? Why that's a real question, we have it tonight.
Also, a Democratic Senator with the state of play in the Senate. We have a Republican Member of Congress here to ask, is he OK with what the President is selling to this country?
It's a big week. What do you say? Let's get after it.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: One side note, the House Intel impeachment report is complete. How can that be a side note?
Here's why. Because it's all about this state of play for the President, OK? That's being reviewed ahead of tomorrow's big vote, and then we'll start going to the Judiciary Committee, and see what happens there.
The GOP version is out as well. The two reports literally bear no resemblance to each other. One set of facts, two realities, that's a lot of trouble for the rest of us.
But first, we have breaking news that will help understand the facts in this situation, just dropping on our watch. Now, it takes us into that past of the Senate Intel Committee, as you may know, run by Republicans.
All right, here's what CNN's Jake Tapper can now confirm for us. That panel, again, led by Republicans, looked into allegations that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election.
"Wait, they did? Because wait, they're saying it just happened." I know. That's why this matters. They looked at it way back in 2017, in 2017. What did they find? No evidence to support the claims.
"What, the DNC lady that's got the same name as the Taco Bell for?" Yes, Chalupa, they looked into it. "Oh, but the Black Book, they say it's fake," yes, they looked into it. "Oh boy, it was Ukraine, not Russia," yes, they looked into it, OK?
And that name brought up again and again by Nunes and all those other clowns and defenders during the hearings, they looked into it. They found nothing. That is known by the same people who are pretending they're real questions now.
Why? Now, that's a question worth getting after right now. Let's put it to GOP Congressman, Randy Weber.
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TEXT: ONE ON ONE.
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CUOMO: Always good to have you on the show. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
REP. RANDY WEBER (R-TX): Thank you, Chris. We did. I hope you did too.
CUOMO: Now, I am not blaming you for this. I asked Senator Kennedy to come on the show. He came on last week to clarify his comments. He then seemed to walk backwards. He's invited, whenever he wants it.
However, you do not believe that the findings about Russia interfering in the 2016 election, echoed by the Senate Intel Committee, run by redoubtable Republican Senator, Bar - Burr, are wrong, right?
WEBER: Well you - now, you're saying Russia or Ukraine, Chris?
CUOMO: I'm saying Russia because I'm speaking about fact here. Russia did it.
WEBER: OK. Well--
CUOMO: Burr said it in his Committee, the Intel Committee said it. Everyone who's looked at it has said it. Do you agree with that?
WEBER: Well of course that's what they say they found. And, of course, that's one of the points of contention, let's be honest here--
CUOMO: It's not a point of contention.
WEBER: --that the President like - it's not - well what I'm saying is the fact that there are still some leftover interest in what happened in how the Russians, and the Ukraine, Ukrainians did it, you--
CUOMO: No, no Ukraine.
WEBER: --disbelieve the President.
CUOMO: No Ukraine.
WEBER: Well I - I get that. Why, I get that.
CUOMO: No, no, you don't get it because you just--
WEBER: But the President--
CUOMO: --you just added them. Don't add them because they have nothing to do with it.
WEBER: What - what - well no, what I'm saying is the President thinks that they did. He doesn't trust the Ukraine, the - the government of Ukraine. And that's part and parcel to everything he's been doing, risk this--
CUOMO: Does he trust Republicans?
WEBER: --foreign policy.
CUOMO: Does he trust Republicans?
WEBER: I'm sorry?
CUOMO: Does he trust Republicans?
WEBER: Does the President trust Republicans?
CUOMO: Yes.
WEBER: He's going to trust Republicans for the most part, absolutely he's going to, those who stand by his side, and aren't afraid of all the vitriol aimed at him.
CUOMO: You think he'd--
WEBER: You even just - you--
CUOMO: --you think he respects Senator Burr?
[21:05:00]
WEBER: Chris, you even just said in your opening statement, the Republican Committee run by the - some of those clowns. Well that's kind of degrading. I mean--
CUOMO: They acted like clowns.
WEBER: --you either want to bring that on--
CUOMO: They acted like clowns, Congressman. I'd never call you that.
WEBER: That - that--
CUOMO: But when you are there as a Member of Congress, and you're supposed to have oversight over the Executive, and you act as defense counsel, it's not your job.
It's like when Nunes ran to the White House, when he was the Chairman of that Committee. His job was oversight, not to overlook things, and run to the White House. That's a joke of a job. That's what I'm pointing out--
WEBER: We had--
CUOMO: --as an objective matter of fact. They weren't supposed to be doing that. They chose to do it.
WEBER: Chris, we had this conversation last time. Mark Meadows, Nunes, anybody else, Jim Jordan, that wanted to go to the White House, is not precluded from doing that.
If you assume they're guilty of sharing information they shouldn't, which is quite frankly what's wrong with this impeachment process, Democrats assume that the President's guilty.
You know, here's an interesting analogy. Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare, we got to pass it to find out what's in it. Now come Pelosi, the Democrat, saying, "We got to impeach the President to find a crime." Really?
CUOMO: Listen.
WEBER: They're assuming he's guilty before--
CUOMO: People say stupid things in politics all the time.
This President said, "I'm going to make healthcare better than ever. I'll tell you what my plan is after the election but vote for me now." That's politics. Politics isn't on trial, maybe it should be.
What I'm saying is this, Congressman. I'm not accusing Mr. Meadows or Mr. Jordan of anything. They're welcome on this show whenever they want to come on.
Heck, I'd like Mr. Nunes to come on, and explain why it was OK for him to go to the White House and share information that was part of his oversight hearing. If they want to come on about that, beautiful.
But I have you. And what I'm asking is--
WEBER: But--
CUOMO: --you don't believe that there's a question as to whether or not Russia or Ukraine interfered in our election, right?
WEBER: Russia interfered in the election. They tried to. Secretary Jeh Johnson said there was no votes change. Russia interfered in the election.
CUOMO: They tried that. They hacked the DNC. I never said anything about votes. They hacked the DNC server. Nobody has ever suggested--
WEBER: That's correct.
CUOMO: --as a matter of fact that Ukraine had anything to do that. The only person who has suggested it in the ugliest of ironies is Vladimir Putin. He made up a story--
WEBER: Well--
CUOMO: --about Ukraine wanting to go after Trump. And now, members of your own party are parroting it.
WEBER: Chris, was CrowdStrike involved in the DCCC hacking?
CUOMO: Yes.
WEBER: Is CrowdStrike in part owned by a Ukrainian?
CUOMO: No.
WEBER: Really?
CUOMO: Yes.
WEBER: That's not the information - yes, really or yes - that's not the information that we have.
CUOMO: You have bad information.
WEBER: And the President is extremely--
CUOMO: The man is American-born--
WEBER: The President-- CUOMO: --of Russian descent. He's not Ukrainian. And even if he were--
WEBER: There--
CUOMO: --that's what you're going to hang it on? Your Head of National Security--
WEBER: No.
CUOMO: --Tom Bossert said that that was a joke. You heard testimony from experts saying it's a joke. The Intel Community says it's not true.
WEBER: No.
CUOMO: Mueller said it's not true.
WEBER: The - the--
CUOMO: Burr said it's not true.
WEBER: What Trump is saying is go back, and let's look at all of the information on the DCCC server that helped--
CUOMO: There was no server.
WEBER: --spied against his campaign.
CUOMO: They operated in a cloud system. There is no server to steal.
WEBER: No server. But - but they were hacked into, and the President wanted that investigated. It's one of the things that he gave to President Zelensky--
CUOMO: It was investigated.
WEBER: --as an example of corruption.
CUOMO: It was investigated.
WEBER: He--
CUOMO: What he went to Zelensky with--
WEBER: Look--
CUOMO: --was a conspiracy theory that there's some missing--
WEBER: Chris?
CUOMO: --server, when there is no physical server.
WEBER: Chris?
CUOMO: CrowdStrike and the FBI both said it, and the DNC. WEBER: Chris, true - true or false - true or false that the - that the President believed that there was corruption in the Ukraine government before President Zelensky, true or false?
CUOMO: I don't know. He gave them funds both times. He never mentioned corruption until Biden decided to run. Where's my evidence that he--
WEBER: Look--
CUOMO: --cared about corruption?
WEBER: He's - he's - well Giuliani met with the former prosecutor that was let go back in January long before Biden announced his candidacy in April.
CUOMO: Well here's--
WEBER: So you can't pin it on him that the President is trying to--
CUOMO: Well here's what we know.
WEBER: --go after his opponent. He didn't even know--
CUOMO: Mr. Giuliani said on this program that he went to Ukraine to ask about the Bidens. He asked them to reopen investigations into the Bidens. They did, and then closed them subsequently, saying they found no reason.
So, I have no reason to believe that Mr. Giuliani ever had an interest in anything that didn't include the Bidens because that's all he's admitted to us.
WEBER: Chris - Chris, I go back to my previous question. Did the President believe there was corruption in the Ukrainian government?
CUOMO: I do not know. Why would he give them money--
WEBER: Well, come on.
CUOMO: --in the last two budget cycles, Congressman? Why did he give them money--
WEBER: Of course - of course--
CUOMO: --in the last two budget cycles?
WEBER: And that's a great--
CUOMO: And never mentioned corruption?
[21:10:00]
WEBER: --that's a great question. That's a great question. You lead right into it. President Zelensky, the new kid on the block said that he's going to clean up the corruption. President Trump wants to make sure that he's serious about it, after
years of being put off by the former administration in Ukraine. So, of course, he doesn't trust them, of course he wants them looked into. This is our foreign policy. This is our money, American taxpayer dollars.
CUOMO: I have no problem with the President running foreign policy. But just simple logic, like nine-year-old logic, you don't care about corruption or bring it up when the place is corrupt.
Now a change agent comes in, and now, you don't trust him, and ask him to investigate corruption. And the only corruption you asked for to be investigated are two items that help you politically.
Congressman, isn't that a little convenient?
WEBER: No, I'll tell you, as I said last time, it's not the President's fault that - that the Bidens got caught up in an apparent pay-to-play scheme. It's just not his fault.
CUOMO: It is his fault that instead of trying to investigate an American citizen the right way, or even just calling his buddy, Lindsey Graham, and having him investigate him in the Senate, he did it in a way to keep his hands off it.
But I want you on record with something, Congressman. I think it's more important for you--
WEBER: OK.
CUOMO: --than it is for my show.
WEBER: OK.
CUOMO: I don't want you to get caught where Senator Kennedy is right now that you believe there is likely a chance that Ukraine was equally responsible or more responsible for what happened in 2016 than Russia was.
Can I put you on record right now about who you think did it?
WEBER: I haven't seen the - the reports you're talking about coming from the Senate. So, I have to admit that I'm a little - a little blind on that report there.
CUOMO: You saw the Mueller report, right?
WEBER: I saw the Mueller report. I - I understand that--
CUOMO: You know what the Intel Committee has concluded, right?
WEBER: The Intel Committee report coming out under Nadler?
CUOMO: No. What they're - Intel Communities. They put out a report.
WEBER: You - you talking about - coming out under Schiff - the-- CUOMO: No. Forget about the politicians.
WEBER: You're talking about the one that's coming out now?
CUOMO: The Intelligence Community put out a report about who did this, why, and when.
WEBER: You're - you're--
CUOMO: It was Russia.
WEBER: You're talking about the old report.
CUOMO: Mueller indicted people.
WEBER: Not the one that's - not the one that's - not the one that's due out Wednesday. You're not talking about the one that's coming out--
CUOMO: No. I don't care about--
WEBER: --but the one that--
CUOMO: Listen, I'm not talking about the political trial of the President. I'm talking about just a matter of fact. Here's my concern.
I think you can argue consequence for this President a couple different ways. I've done it many times on the show. I think you can argue that what Hunter Biden did was wrong. If you want to investigate him, fine, but do it the right way. This President did it the wrong way, and I argue, the facts suggest for bad reason.
But that's not where my head is. If you are going to try to defend the President by running a conspiracy theory that Ukraine did something, not Russia, now, you are undermining American institutions, and faith, in fact, just out of political convenience, and I don't want you in that bucket if you don't belong there.
That's why I'm asking you, do you think Russia was behind 2016 interference?
WEBER: Russia was behind 2016 interference, yes.
CUOMO: God bless. It's good to have somebody say it, wasn't the quickest route to that answer that I would have liked. But Congressman Randy Weber--
WEBER: But look that does - but that - that doesn't leave out--
CUOMO: --it's important to have fact.
WEBER: That doesn't leave out the fact that the President does not trust Ukraine, and the corruptions in Ukraine, doesn't - it doesn't rule out the fact that it exists.
CUOMO: Maybe he - maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. WEBER: And the President's cautious with our--
CUOMO: But all I know is if I were worried about corruption in you - and - in - in Ukraine, the only things I would ask them to investigate would not be things that matter to me.
I would go after the - the corruption that is endemic there that's been stealing money, and losing life, and costing thousands--
WEBER: Chris?
CUOMO: --in Ukraine.
WEBER: Chris?
CUOMO: Not the Bidens.
WEBER: Chris, those - those two things are endemic to the American public, the most notable to the American public. Again, the President, in foreign policy perspective, doesn't trust the Ukrainians.
CUOMO: He shouldn't have given them the money.
WEBER: He is very, very cautious about foreign--
CUOMO: And he should have gone back to Congress and told them that.
WEBER: He - he--
CUOMO: Instead of creating a--
WEBER: He--
CUOMO: --solicitation for something he wanted in exchange for Congressionally-approved money.
WEBER: He - that - that - that - that's the conspiracy. You just named it right there. He's got foreign aid--
CUOMO: That's the matter of fact.
WEBER: Chris, he's responsible for American dollars, foreign aid. He makes policy.
CUOMO: He does.
WEBER: I know that there's Ambassadors. There's bureaucrats. There's--
CUOMO: Yes.
WEBER: --and there's political pundits--
CUOMO: All right.
WEBER: --that don't believe it. But he was concerned about that. He's looking out for the American public. He's draining the swamp. He's going to help President Z drain the swamp over there. People don't like him for that. I get that.
CUOMO: I don't - I don't - look--
WEBER: But it is what it is.
CUOMO: --we'll talk about draining the swamp another time because I've never seen more people go down in an Administration for corruption than I have in this one. But Congressman, you're always welcome here to make the case. And I appreciate you coming tonight.
WEBER: Thank you, Chris. Good to hear your opinion again.
CUOMO: It wasn't an opinion. It's a set of questions of what we understand as facts. But thank you for being here, I appreciate it.
All right, a centerpiece of - it's not an opinion. It's not an opinion, OK? Russia, by all indications of discernible fact, was responsible for this. Ukraine was not. Anybody who's looked at the question has said they didn't, including the Republicans.
[21:15:00]
There's only one reason they're changing this story for you right now, and it's to confuse you, and distract you, and make you not care about it, because it doesn't seem to make sense anymore, because nothing's true, unless you want it to be, and that's not reality.
All right, now, that takes us to another matter of fact. There is one phone call, other than the President's perfect one, that he says saves him. We have to look at it, and we have to look at even if it exists, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: All right, feel what you want to feel, but have it be based on facts, all right? Latest example, this picture.
The President says the only call, other than his perfect one with the President of Ukraine, was the one on September 9th. That's the one to look at with his donor-turned-Ambassador buddy where he said all the right things.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo.
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[21:20:00]
CUOMO: OK, problems. First, we don't know that that call even happened. The Washington Post reports that the White House hasn't found a record of Trump and Sondland talking on September 9th. Even Sondland himself was not sure it happened on that day.
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GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPEAN UNION: I still cannot find a record of that call because the State Department and the White House cannot locate it.
I believe it was on the 9th of September. I can't find the records, and they won't provide them to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, I have a suggestion that he was referring to a different call, and I'm going to get to that in a second. However, Sondland testified everyone in the loop knew what the deal was, and he himself laid out that deal to Ukraine.
But on this magical September 9th call, he says he needed guidance. He didn't know what to do. The timing also very curious, why?
September 9th is the same day Congress started its investigation into Ukraine, and it came after the whistleblower complaint had been taken to the White House, and shown to the President, and he used the same kind of language as the whistleblower, "Quid pro quo," sound like a Trumpy thing to say?
Now, maybe the reason this President was pumped about the call is because every other time there's been evidence about what he actually said, it's hurt him. The infamous transcript of the Ukraine President call, the other call with Sondland, where he was overheard shouting about the investigations.
But here's the question. Would they really make up a phone call to help fix all this? Is that really such a crazy suggestion with all this stuff they're doing with Ukraine?
POTUS is so desperate to make his opportunistic asks for dirt on Biden, and to undermine Russia as the bad guy in our 26 election - 2016 election, and he's gladly giving life to conspiracy theories.
Now, he's got GOPers taking up that evidence. Their own party debunked it in the Senate. And now, they're pretending that didn't happen?
One more point, remember that other call I told you about? All right, fact versus fugazi? Sondland is not the best with recollections. We know that. Remember he forgot that he delivered the deal to Ukraine about the solicitation? He forgot another call, came in early September, one where the President may have turned a Latin phrase, even if it's not clear he knew the meaning. But in this case, unlike the perfect call of September 9th, other people heard the call.
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TIM MORRISON, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: Ambassador Sondland related that there was no quid pro quo, but President Zelensky had to make the statement and that he had to want to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That call was just a couple days before this magical September 9th call. Is it possible Sondland got the dates mixed up? Yes. And he's referring to this call that Taylor and Morrison referred to?
But if he is doing that, boy oh boy did he change what the call was really about, and how the President was on it, and the President's notes fade away into something else, because these other two people saw it completely differently.
The President wanted Ukraine to do it. "Give me cover on the quid pro quo. No, that's not what it is." But they have to do it. What's the difference?
We've got a Senate Judiciary Committee Member here to weigh the evidence, tell us what this state of play is about in the Senate, which will likely be the home for a trial in this.
Presidential candidate, Senator from New Jersey, Cory Booker, next.
[21:25:00]
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: All right, so House Republicans are now pushing back. They've got their own impeachment report, and it is staggering how two reports, supposedly based on one set of facts could be so different.
Like what? All right, the July 25th call, right, that was between the two Presidents "Shows no quid pro quo or indication of conditionality, threats, or pressure, much less evidence of bribery or extortion. The summary reflects laughter, pleasantries, cordiality." Senator Booker is on the Senate Judiciary and Foreign Relations committees. He joins us now.
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did. I hope you do as well.
CUOMO: So, as you've heard me argue before, you will probably, if things continue on this course, wind up being the court of first impression for this. You will be a juror there. But really, the Senate runs it.
And based on what you've seen so far, and how you're seeing it defended, what are your thoughts?
BOOKER: Well, in general, you still just have to take it on a very objective standpoint. You have a President of the United States, who by his own admission, he's been courting international interference in our elections.
The President of the United States, who's own admission, was in that conversation that they released, was - was making aid conditional on what they were doing. This is just bad. And - and you and I were talking off-camera. But it's bad.
Both of us have been to the Eastern regions of Ukraine. I've sat with soldiers who talked to me about - the comrades say there's fellow soldiers that they lost, about the danger.
I sat with before Ambassador Yovanovitch was a household name with her earnestly trying to--
CUOMO: They need us.
BOOKER: They - they - that is exactly the point.
CUOMO: Right. And that's why you can't expect Zelensky to try to get sideways with the President of the United States. And that's why I was so surprised by this quote of his recently--
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: --that basically suggested, "Hey, if America's such a great partner for us, why would they hold up anything that we need?"
BOOKER: Right. But the - but the point - point is that their - this is not a - Ukraine is not isolated.
We've seen from The New York Times, most recently in Madagascar, Ukraine, excuse me - Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, you can go through the countries where Russia now has a playbook.
They're not going to beat America tank for tank, battleship for battleship, but they're coming at our democracy.
CUOMO: It helps when we're doing the job for them.
BOOKER: Well--
CUOMO: These Republicans are - you know, I mean you've heard me argue this.
BOOKER: Yes.
[21:30:00]
CUOMO: You do not need to embrace Russian propaganda to defend the President from removal, on the facts, as we understand them.
You can say it's wrong. You can say it was abusive of his power. "But a first-term President with an election around the corner, nothing really happened, don't remove him," you could make that argument.
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: May win, may lose. But they are selling stuff, Cory, that they know, Senator, they know it's not true. They investigated it in the Senate.
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: Burr investigated it.
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: And found nothing.
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: And they're ignoring that.
BOOKER: Right. And that's what really is problematic to me is that they are falling into what I consider Russian traps, by making - doing their work for them, undermining facts, undermining truth, undermining our ability, our trust in our institutions, our trust in our Intelligence Community.
So many things they're doing right now are weakening our democracy overall, and are just plain wrong that are - that are - the evidence shows they're just plain wrong.
And so, why are you doing things to win a short-term battle that are undermining the long-term strength of our - of America vis-a-vis the people who are actively trying to attack us undermine our democracy in every way possible? This is to me a moment where we need patriotism, and not such rank partisanship.
CUOMO: I've just I've never seen anything like it. I've never seen people try to sell a BS conspiracy theory like that that they - their own people debunked in their own run committees.
Let me ask you something else. I saw an ad the other day talking about someone running for President, and you know--
BOOKER: Yes.
CUOMO: --he's a patriot, he's a Rhodes Scholar, he's this, he's that, and they have a picture of Buttigieg up, Mayor Buttigieg, and say, "No, not that guy, Cory Booker."
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: Came from some PAC. It's an interesting comparison. What do you think it is that is allowing Buttigieg to get traction in a way that you're not?
BOOKER: You know, I don't know. I've been asked this by more reporters on the campaign trail than everything.
"Wait a minute. You were a Mayor of your state's largest city during a recession. You turned it around, tens of thousands of new jobs, transformed your school system, then you went on to the Senate. You have that - by bringing people together across the aisle to pass things like criminal justice reform."
So, a lot of this to us when we get into Town Halls, we're having massive conversions. We're seeing us gaining ground. We're up - net favorability, we're now number three. We're leading the whole field in Iowa, New Hampshire, and local leaders endorsing us, so we're seeing a lot of signs.
But these national polls are the things that can be frustrating. But they have never ever from our Party, from the Democratic Party, have ever predicted who would go on to be President. In fact, nobody ever leading in the polls this far out, nor--
CUOMO: You got to start to get to the votes. It's true.
BOOKER: You got to get to the vote. Carter, Clinton, Obama were all way behind at this point.
CUOMO: But - so what keeps your confidence up? Is it that the history has shown that you don't know until the votes start? Does--
BOOKER: No.
CUOMO: --does that mean that Iowa's make or break or the - the second state or the third state?
BOOKER: I - I think it's what a lot of the national media is missing is what's actually going on the ground, which is not polling numbers.
I mean the Des Moines Register, Iowa Starting Line say the best two teams on the ground in Iowa are mine and Elizabeth Warren's. When you see local mayors, and state reps, coming out and supporting us, more than a lot more of these established candidates, that gives me encouragement.
And just the message, look, I'm not - I'm not making any mincemeat about this. I've - I got into this race right away because I think our country needs to heal and to come together.
The way we fight and win is when we have that strength that comes from re-establishing community, and connection, having that more courageous empathy, reviving civic race.
That's how I started my career, as a organizer in the basement of projects, organizing community, because we knew the more we can organize, and come together, the more we can beat the slumlord.
This country right now is so fragmented, and being torn apart, you see it in this partisanship, which is becoming tribalism. This is - we can win the White House as a Democratic Party, but fail to do the bigger challenge.
Beating Donald Trump is a floor, it's not the ceiling. The ceiling is criminal justice reform, gun safety, climate change, all these big issues.
And the only way we've done big things in the past, from going to the moon, to beating the Nazis, is when leaders inspire the moral imagination of this country, and bring us together in common cause.
That's why I'm running, and that message on the ground is persuasive, and we believe that ultimately, as we saw with everybody, even John Kerry polling at 4 percent, and then goes on to win Iowa, we think our - our message is going to be persuasive with our organization.
CUOMO: It's interesting. So, you don't take the polls as being definitive of your place in the race right now.
BOOKER: Right.
CUOMO: But you do use it to raise money. You say if you don't come out and help me right now, I may not be around.
BOOKER: Well that's because we have this artificial thing we've never seen before in the Democratic Party.
CUOMO: Right. Which is this - this - this litmus test.
BOOKER: To make the debate stage.
CUOMO: 4 percent in two national polls or one at 6 percent and one--
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BOOKER: Yes. The - the fact that they're using polling when it's never been--
CUOMO: Right.
BOOKER: --predictive is a new challenge for us. And so, that's why we've been urgently saying "Please go to corybooker.com." Give us the resources we need to do what Tom Steyer is doing to make the polls, which is running ads.
CUOMO: Right.
BOOKER: Pete Buttigieg saw his polling go up when he got on the air and did constant commercials in Iowa. We've got to have the resources we need to make this next debate stage.
CUOMO: Well we're putting out invitations all the time to people in the field to give you all an equal shot.
BOOKER: Thank you.
CUOMO: To impress the audience.
BOOKER: Appreciate that.
CUOMO: Senator, thank you for being with us.
BOOKER: Oh, Chris. Thank you for--
CUOMO: Big week of confidence.
BOOKER: --thank you for being tough on - on - on an issue that I think - forget the partisanship. This goes to the heart of - of what the real attacks on our democracy are going to be.
[21:35:00]
Russia wants to loosen the bonds between us, make us hate each other, make us doubt truth, make us attack the media, all of these things is from their playbook. It's been documents that have been released.
We can't - we can't play into their hands, and I appreciate you calling it out.
CUOMO: Now, it's almost you can't play into their hands anymore. I never thought I'd see anything like this where I have people where I'm - have to beg a Republican Congressman to admit that Russia interfered in the election when everybody says it.
Senator, thank you for being with us, appreciate it.
BOOKER: Thank you for having me. Thank you.
CUOMO: Senator Cory Booker, New Jersey, running for President.
All right, next, former FBI lawyer, Lisa Page, coming forward, giving a very long in-depth interview, she's sickened by all of this President's tactics, especially ones like this.
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TRUMP: Lisa, I love you. Lisa! Lisa! Oh God, I love you Lisa
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CUOMO: Once again, something that came out of this President's mouth brought out a new enemy. We're going to bring in someone who worked with Lisa Page. Jim Baker
knew her, knew what happened then. We'll talk about her now, next.
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TRUMP: I love you, Peter. I love you too, Lisa. Lisa, I love you. Lisa! Lisa! Oh God, I love you Lisa.
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TRUMP: And if she doesn't win, Lisa, we've got an insurance policy, Lisa.
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CUOMO: Hmm! I wonder if it's the same insurance broker that Rudy Giuliani has.
[21:40:00]
Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, talking about Lisa Page, the former FBI lawyer who the President was mocking. And when she heard that, she said "Enough."
It's been two years since we first learned her name. She's now breaking her silence saying that the President's attacks are "Like being punched in the gut. The President of the United States is calling me names to the entire world. He's demeaning me and my career. It's sickening."
Now, Page worked for Jim Baker. Jim Baker, friend of show, CNN family now, was the GC, the General Counsel of the FBI, and he's here now.
Thank you. I hope Thanksgiving was good. Appreciate you on the show.
JIM BAKER, FORMER FBI GENERAL COUNSEL, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL SECURITY & CYBERSECURITY, R STREET INSTITUTE: Yes, thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: The main allegation that requires attention is the texts between Page and Strzok, betrayed, an animus that infiltrated the investigation into then-candidate, and later President, Trump, have you ever believed that? BAKER: I've never believed that because I worked very closely with Lisa and Pete. And I saw on a regular basis what it was that they were doing, and what they were not doing.
And I didn't see any evidence that any of their actions or failure to take logical actions were the result of any type of political bias. They were taking actions that made sense as investigators that made sense as lawyers.
And, you know, they were not in charge of the FBI. Jim Comey was in charge of the FBI. And, you know, the actions that they were taking did not appear to be driven by political considerations. It just wasn't the case.
CUOMO: Now, there is an Inspector General's report that's going to come out about just this. And I know that you even haven't - you hadn't looked at it. But even if you have looked at it, I can't talk to you about it. That's not my question.
The idea is going to be if it comes out in that report, as is being sourced right now, that Page was not found to have had political animus, influencing her actions, what do you think of the damage done by what this President continues - and doesn't matter what's in the IG report, Jim. We both know the President's going to keep saying the FBI was out to get him. Net effect, in house and out of house?
BAKER: Well the - the human suffering that the President has caused these people who made mistakes, Pete and Lisa made mistakes, and those mistakes hurt the Bureau. They hurt the investigations. They hurt their own careers.
They hurt themselves and they hurt their families, and they know that. They know that. They know they exercised poor judgment. They know they made mistakes, and they regret it. They're sorry about it.
But as human beings, who make mistakes, you know stop the presses. Human being makes - human beings make mistakes, right, and exercise poor judgment. That happens.
And - and yet, what happens on a day-to-day basis in public is that they're both subjected to this kind of language--
CUOMO: Right.
BAKER: --from the President. And what was extremely this--
CUOMO: Well he made their affair, which is obviously a personal matter, it had nothing to do with the FBI, into it being about him. It was like a love triangle, as far as he's concerned, except it was about hating him.
BAKER: It's - it's so depressing to me to - to see him relishing in the suffering of others, and to hear the laughter that that people express during - during his statement, it was just - it was very disconcerting to me.
And - and I just don't - I just don't think it is the right thing to do. I think it's really, you know, quite reprehensible.
CUOMO: She's out now. People can read the piece for themselves.
I think she left in May of 2018. She's trying to figure out what's next. She's still very young, and obviously a talented attorney. But it's an interesting window into what happens when this President decides that you need to go.
Now, let me ask you something else, Jim. How do we deal with these Ukraine BS conspiracy theories? Senate Intel looked at it, run by Republicans.
Mueller, the Intel Community released a report about it. Everybody who's looked at it says it's BS. Now they're selling it, and I have to pull out of them that it was Russia in 2016.
What is the play here? And how do you deal with it?
BAKER: I think you just have to - you - you fight corruption and lies with truth and integrity and the facts.
And I think exactly what you're doing just to continue to call out folks, who for whatever reason decide that they want to, you know, promulgate or propagate this type of narrative, it just has to be countered every single time it's - it's brought up.
It - it's done for a political motive, as we all know. It's done to make the case to the American people, so that the - the Senate doesn't waffle in its support for the President, the Republican Members of the Senate.
And so, I think you just have to keep - keep at it, and keep finding new facts, keep pushing back against the various defenses, and defense after defense that are - that's made by the President, and his supporters, just collapses in the face of the facts. And that's - that's how you have to do it.
It may not result in - in the President being removed from Office. But hopefully, it will have some effect on how Americans think about their choices when they go to the polls in November 2020.
[21:45:00]
CUOMO: Removing the stain of creating basically an Orwellian culture of doublespeak.
BAKER: Yes.
CUOMO: "It was always Ukraine. It was never anybody else but Ukraine. It had to be Ukraine until we change the story" was literally right out of that what we thought was a novel.
That would be a much bigger prize for this country than even the removal of a President, in terms of a consequence, and what it would mean to us as a society. And it all goes together, Jim. That little act about Lisa Page that he puts out, it helps him make a mockery of an institution he needs people not to trust, if they're going to listen to him about something like Ukraine.
Jim Baker, thank you very much, for helping us make some sense of the senseless, appreciate it.
BAKER: Yes, thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, "I was wrong." There's something you rarely hear. A top Senate Republican admitted right here on this show a week ago that he was wrong to push a 2016 Ukraine conspiracy theory.
I actually felt good about that. It was like a moment of clarity. But now, Senator Kennedy is backpedaling, and he represents a big fat problem. We'll get after it, next.
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[21:50:00]
CUOMO: Defend POTUS at all costs, even if it costs you your very soul. That's the GOP approach to this impeachment.
Congressmen acting as POTUS' counsel when they're well Members of Congress, and supposedly investigating this President, ignoring testimony, and now even peddling Putin's propaganda that it was Ukraine, not Russia, in 2016.
When Senator John Kennedy became Trump's Beast of Burden, carrying this BS, we gave him a chance on this show to own reality, and he took it.
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SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I was wrong. The only evidence I have, and I think it's overwhelming, is that it was Russia who tried to hack the DNC computer.
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CUOMO: There you have it. The Senator knows what is fact. Every Intel agency we have found conclusively Russia hacked the 2016 election. The question isn't who. The question is how to do something about it. It's not about Ukraine.
But in Trumpland, all that matters is what helps him. That put Kennedy in a bad position. And he, like the rest of his Party, chose Trump over the truth.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that the Ukrainians interfered in the 2016 election?
KENNEDY: I do. I do.
It is clear to me that Ukraine did meddle in the U.S. election.
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CUOMO: It's clear to the Senator even though he says he's never gotten an Intel brief to back up any of what is clear to him. He doesn't need to, he says. He's read a couple of articles that suggest Ukraine may have had something to do with it.
That thinking has a Washington Post opinion piece labeling Senator Kennedy as a "Useful idiot." Now, I don't like the insult. We don't need that.
We need a reckoning of this irony, to undermine reality that Russia interfered with our election, and remember why.
Because Trump thinks that Russia doing it because they wanted him to win hurts him. So, he's trying to erase it. So, he and his loyalists are trying to frame Ukraine based on an idea cooked up by Russia.
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VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Do you know, for example, that in Ukraine, following the elections, some people, and these were public officials, sent congratulatory telegrams to Hillary Clinton, even though Trump had won? Look, what do we have to do with it?
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CUOMO: That's not true. Now this President is selling you the same tripe, and having the GOP do it also.
Case in point, this 123-page blueprint of the case they'll be making in the House. "None of the Democrats' witnesses testified to having bribery evidence, extortion, or any high crime or misdemeanor."
Another thing you're going to hear a lot in the coming weeks, you don't need proof of a crime to be impeached. This is about abuse of power, especially if it involves working with a foreign power. Right, Lindsey Graham, 1998?
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic.
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CUOMO: As for the facts, everyone offered proof of the exact same understanding.
This President wanted to know if this BS about the DNC server in Ukraine was true. And assuming he actually believes that, that could be a basis for impeachment right there on the level of gross incompetence.
But the worst part is trying to sell you this BS about Ukraine, not only shielding Russia, but literally selling Russia's own excuse, which a star witness dismissed with a wave of her hand.
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FIONA HILL, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FORMER TOP RUSSIA ADVISER: This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian Security Services themselves.
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CUOMO: Yes, and now by our President and Members of Congress.
Look, you can argue that what Hunter Biden did was wrong. If the President believes that, or something about Vice President Biden, have them investigated by your buddy, Lindsey Graham, like he's doing right now in the Senate. Go to the DOJ.
Why did you go through the Ukraine? You did it for cover, and you know it. And so do the people giving you cover right now. What happened here is obvious. The only thing that's not obvious is the right consequence.
But in Trumpland, there is no moving back, only attacking whatever and whoever tries to stop you. And he's willing to peddle Russian propaganda, destroy your confidence in our institutions, and threaten people personally just to get what he wants.
Remember this, what he says, nor any of his deputies, can't be taken by themselves, why?
If he has nothing to hide, if his top deputies never said anything like what was testified to, why won't he sit under oath? Why won't he let them? Imagine being in his position, and knowing you did nothing wrong, and that you had people who could prove it, and you wouldn't let them testify.
[21:55:00]
He says he doesn't get the same rights Clinton had when he was impeached, and he's right. He has more, yet he won't even have a lawyer show up?
Does any of this sound perfect to you? That's the argument. Now, there's news tonight about one of Rudy Giuliani's indicted associates that could shake up the coming impeachment probe. That's our BOLO, next.
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CUOMO: BOLO. Be On the Look-Out.
One of Rudy Giuliani's indicted associates just got a step closer to testifying. Federal prosecutors told the judge today in New York that more charges may be coming for Lev Parnas, a man already accused of funneling money into GOP campaigns illegally.
But Parnas' attorney told the court that Mr. Parnas wants to comply with a subpoena from House Intel Committee, and asked therefore for copies of materials that have been seized, so that they can turn them over to Congress.
Both the judge and prosecutor said, "OK. You should expect to get it." In other words, if the Feds aren't going to stand in the way, that becomes really interesting. Could Parnas or anything that he has become a last-minute piece of evidence in the impeachment proceedings? Be On the Look-Out.
Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with the man, Don Lemon, right now.
