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Don Lemon Tonight

New Revelations From Impeachment Report; What The President Does With Inconvenient Facts And People; How Strong Is The Democrats' Case?; Democrats Subpoenaed Phone Records For Investigation; House Intel Committee Approves Ukraine Reports; Interview With Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) About The House Intel Committee Voting Tonight To Send Their Impeachment Report To The Judiciary Committee; Will The GOP Break Ranks With President Trump?; Trump And Macron Butt Heads At NATO Press Conference; CNN Alert: Fact-Checking President Trump. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired December 03, 2019 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: The president of the United States, ladies and gentlemen, that's where we are tonight. Let's bring in "CNN TONIGHT'S" D. Lemon for a look at the state of play. I thought it was a little odd that he pick an orange of all things that might be taken out of a refrigerator, but you know, I did a little quick look in here.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: If the fruit fits.

CUOMO: Good one. I can't find the leader of any nation ever talking about their own nation like this.

LEMON: No.

CUOMO: And I even looked at nations that were under siege at the time.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Like where there were real coups going on. They still talk about the prevailing wisdom of their constitution or whatever they're holding in high regard. And I got to tell you, if people listen to his words, Don, I think that his party saves him. I don't think there's any real doubt about that at this point.

They're going to choose Trump over the truth when I think the only real discussion to have is consequence, not the facts. I don't think it will ever get to that. But what he just said, basically hoping that when the parties switch, they do the same thing to somebody else.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: What's your take?

LEMON: Well, like as I said, if the fruit fits. But this is crazy times. I was sitting in my office watching your show with my executive producer, Maria Espinola (ph) and I juts -- you were playing what the president was saying with Macron today.

And I said, that is the president of the United States saying things about other people, leaders in the country, calling them crazy and deranged. And I said, when have you ever heard a leader from any country speak of any other leader in the way that this person is speaking of other people? It's just unheard of.

My 10-year-old nephew does not do that, and if he did, if one of your children did, wouldn't you discipline them and tell them, don't do that? I don't understand what's going on with the Republican Party.

If they want to go down this road and they want to be known as the party that allowed America to be derailed by someone who speaks and conducts themselves this way, then by all means let them do it, because one day there will be a Democratic president, and they will come into office, he or she, and hopefully they won't conduct themselves that way. But they will be able to get away with anything, and the Republican Party's hair will be on fire.

CUOMO: Well, look, I hope that doesn't happen, right? Because I always hope that the course of correction is not one of retribution.

LEMON: I hope it doesn't happen, but it will.

CUOMO: In politics. You know, the fix for them is -- and, look, I was just having this argument with a lawyer on my show. In 1998, these people are making all the opposite arguments about what was going on with Bill Clinton. You know, they couldn't find a bar low enough to get that guy. It started about real estate, and it ended about an intern and him lying about sex.

LEMON: It was different, because it's different. And l4isten, what Bill Clinton did was wrong. Don't get me wrong.

CUOMO: No question about it.

LEMON: No one is making an excuse for what Bill Clinton did. But what Bill Clinton did didn't have to do with foreign policy.

CUOMO: No.

LEMON: Right?

CUOMO: It wasn't even close.

LEMON: The way he conducted the business of his office, the way he handled his office.

CUOMO: Right.

LEMON: He handled his business, right? It was a personal failing as a man and in his marriage, and it was an abuse of -- it was a power imbalance with someone who worked in his office. Not right, but different.

CUOMO: Definitely wrong, and he lied about it, which made it arguably illegal and wrong.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: However -- and it's a big however. It's not a false equivalency. It's not making things OK. He cut more deals during impeachment than he did on either side of it. He had higher job approval numbers during that process for two reasons. One, it seemed a little ridiculous for people to be chasing after him over the kinds of things that they figure most of them are doing anyway, and most people in this country may be doing. The second thing was --

LEMON: Well, many people. Not most, but many.

CUOMO: No, many. Many people. I think that you know, the hypocrisy level is high in this country when it comes to those kind of peccadillos.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: So, I think that was part of it, little holier than thou syndrome. The second part was they wanted things done. See this president is taking a different course. But I'll tell you what, people like Lindsey Graham are in a box. I know right now it seems like smooth sailing for him because he's in the warm embrace of a president who is popular in that party like we haven't seen in a long time. That's why their answer gets easy, Don.

When somebody shows them, he's at 94 percent in the party, you will get primaried, you may lose, things start to get to be a little bit of an easier choice. And what used to be your high dudgeon of the failure of character doesn't bother you so much anymore. Now it's got to be treason. If it's not treason, then you can't impeach, when it used to be Lindsey Graham saying, it doesn't even have to be a crime.

[22:05:22]

LEMON: I'll tell you what. Like the old folks used to say, you're living high on the hog now. But one day the hog gets slaughtered and the hog dies, and then you're on the ground and what are you going to do then? You got to walk for yourself.

I tell you what, when we look back in history, you know, -- there's videotape -- it's digital now, but when these folks look back and they see the sound bites, right? And they see the way history records them, they will be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves. You mark my words, they will be, history has shown.

CUOMO: How will you be remembered, because this time will be?

LEMON: Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, sir. Good to see you soon, Chris Cuomo.

CUOMO: See you.

LEMON: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. We are just hours away from the next move in impeachment. The first public hearing in the Judiciary Committee. That coming as the Intel Committee releases its 300-page impeachment report. Here it is. It is enormous. Got it right here. We're going to read it for you. No, we're not going to read it for you. We're going to go through the important parts of this report.

But let's be absolutely clear here about what this report says. It tells a story of conspiracy at the highest levels of our government. Conspiracy to extort. That's what it is. This is not about quid pro quo, right?

That cute little phrase or that phrase that they think is cute. No quid pro quo. This is about extortion, a conspiracy to extort a foreign power for the political benefit of the president of the United States. And it wasn't just the president acting alone. The report says the president's men, all of his yes men were in on it too.

And it was about much, much, much more than that infamous Ukraine phone call, and I quote here. This is from the report. This telephone call was neither the start nor the end of President Trump's efforts to bend U.S. foreign policy for his personal gain.

Rather, it was a dramatic crescendo within a months-long campaign driven by President Trump in which senior U.S. officials, including the vice president, the Secretary of State, the acting chief of staff, the secretary of energy, and others were either knowledgeable of or active participants in an effort to extract from a foreign nation the personal political benefits sought by the president.

And the thing about all of this is, the facts are not really in dispute. Not in dispute. The facts that came out of the investigation and more than 130 hours of public and private testimony by 17 witnesses -- the facts are not in dispute. But the spin, well, that's a different story. The spin, whew, make you dizzy.

The president's Republican defenders will tell you there is nothing new in this. They'll say, there's nothing to see here. Move along. Wrong. There is a big surprise in this report, something that we didn't know about before. There's never-before-seen phone records for key players in the Ukraine shakedown, including Rudy Giuliani, his indicted associate Lev Parnas, and Devin Nunes. Yes, that Devin Nunes, the top Republican on the Intel Committee.

The logs show him in multiple calls with the president's attorney and with Parnas this past April in the weeks before Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch was forced out. I want you to take a look at -- this is Nunes' call log for April 10th. Five calls with Giuliani in the space of 15 minutes. Five calls.

Two days later, Nunes has four calls with Parnas, who has been charged with illegally funneling foreign donations to Republicans in 2018. We don't know what was said on those calls. Nunes has refused multiple requests for comment from CNN, including dodging a question from our very own Manu Raju. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: What is your reaction to being named in the report, sir?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Hmm? Somebody say something? Just kept walking. Now, take a look at this. Rudy Giuliani's phone records for April 24th. See those highlighted calls there on the screen? They're all calls between Giuliani and the White House, eight of them, on the very day Ambassador Yovanovitch was told to get on the next plane and get out of Ukraine.

[22:10:19]

You remember Giuliani waged a public campaign against the ambassador. So the timing of all those calls is interesting to say the least. And speaking of the timing, the report indicates that House investigators got hold of those phone records in September. That was well before the public impeachment hearings began. So they knew about Nunes' possible involvement. Is this something he maybe should have disclosed during those hearings? You think? Adam Schiff saying this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): It is, I think, deeply concerning that at a time when the president of the United States was using the power of his office to dig up dirt on a political rival, that there may be evidence that there were members of Congress complicit in that activity. Now, there's a lot more to learn about that, and I don't want to state that that is an unequivocal fact. But the allegations are deeply concerning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the White House reaction to all of this, playing the role of Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham, who has still never held a press briefing, comparing the report to what she calls the ramblings of a basement blogger. Where have we heard something like that before? Oh, yeah, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Kind of makes you wonder who wrote that statement, doesn't it? My guest here. This is a president who always wants to ignore inconvenient facts. I want you to just listen to how he tried to explain away the impeachment inquiry. This was just this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You'll have a Democrat president. You'll have a Republican House, and they'll do the same thing, because somebody picked an orange out of a refrigerator, and you don't like it, so let's go and impeach him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Orange, refrigerator. Exactly the same thing. He has a habit of ignoring inconvenient facts, even pretending -- I'm going to give you some proof, OK, so stand by. Even pretending that he doesn't know central figures in the investigation, like Gordon Sondland, the million dollar Trump donor who -- and this is probably just a big old coincidence -- was appointed, right, by the president to be the ambassador to the E.U. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hardly know the gentleman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, you knew him well enough to tweet that he was a really good man and great American. Of course that was before his inconvenient testimony in the impeachment inquiry. But that's the kind of, you know -- that's this president's M.O. He did it with his campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I didn't know Manafort well. He wasn't with the campaign long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I told you, some evidence. He did it with his own personal lawyer, former Trump fixer and keeper of secrets, Michael Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But he's been a lawyer for me, didn't do big deals, did small deals. Not somebody that was with me that much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He did it with his other personal lawyer's clients, claiming he doesn't know two indicted associates of Rudy Giuliani, Igor Fruman and Lev Parnas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't know those gentlemen. Now, it's possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody. I have a picture with everybody here. But somebody said there may be a picture or something at a fund-raiser or somewhere. But I have pictures with everybody. I have -- I don't know if there's anybody I don't have pictures -- I don't know them. I don't know about them. I don't know what they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Interesting that he says there might be a picture because guess what? There is. Actually there are quite a few pictures, more than you'd think if really, you know, if you didn't know those gentlemen, gentlemen who have been indicted for campaign finance violations and federal prosecutors in New York say are likely to face additional charges. Like I said, it's the president's M.O. And remember this, I said this before to you. That indicates he's thinking, he's thinking, I don't know. Remember that.

[22:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't know Prince Andrew, but it's -- that's a tough story. It's a very tough story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That was Prince Andrew. He doesn't know the prince. The prince that he shook hands with during his state visit to the U.K. This was in June. The prince he met with along with then-Prime Minister Theresa May, the prince he was photographed with.

This was at Mar-a-Lago back in 2000. Nope, he doesn't know him. Inconvenient. Like I said, this president ignores inconvenient people. He ignores inconvenient facts. But there are a lot of facts coming out of this impeachment investigation that are really inconvenient, and he won't be able to ignore those.

Three hundred pages, 300, 17 witnesses, 130 hours of public and private testimony. Just how strong is a Democrats' case against the president? That's a question for Jamie Gangel, Frank Bruni, Guy Smith, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The House Intelligence Committee releasing its damning impeachment report, finding what it calls overwhelming evidence of President Trump's misconduct and obstruction of Congress, and it concludes the president's top aides knew about the scheme to shake down Ukraine for dirt on Joe Biden.

Let's discuss now. Jamie Gangel is here, Frank Bruni, Guy Smith. So good to have you all right here onset with me. Good evening, one and all. Guy, I'm going to start with you. So, the intel report paints a picture of conspiracy at the highest levels of government. How strong do you think is the Democrats' case against the president?

GUY SMITH, FORMER CLINTON IMPEACHMENT ADVISER: The water just got really deep for Donald Trump. I mean, if you compare this -- what's said in this document to what was said about Andrew Johnson, about even Richard Nixon -- John Dean said this earlier this evening -- and Bill Clinton, this is by far way more extreme, and the detail is extraordinary.

[22:20:13]

And if you take the detail that's in here and compare it to what the Republicans put out the other day, which doesn't deny any of the actions. This is all Baghdad Bob and Joe Isuzu in this thing.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, the scary thing for Donald Trump is he's not sending his lawyers. They're not defending him. He isn't defending himself, and you got Devin Nunes running around Ukraine and Austria and god knows wherever else making phone calls. He's going to go to jail. I said this about Giuliani, and so is Nunes. They're violating a campaign violence act.

LEMON: Allegedly. Allegedly Devin Nunes doing all of that. But, listen, I've got to ask you, I got to ask you, you know, because --

SMITH: You're a journalist. I'm a commentator.

LEMON: You said the water got really high, right? So using that analogy, it's like the ship analogy, the water analogy. The president is clearly steering the ship, but you've got people like -- the report makes it clear -- Pence, Pompeo, Perry, Mulvaney. They were all either knowledgeable or active participants. So, what happened here? What's going on?

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, NEW YORK TIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST: I was going to say to extend the metaphor, the crew is much more populist than we realize, right. No, I mean, I think one of the most compelling narratives of this presidency, I don't mean compelling good, is the sheer number of people who once in the beginning renounced Donald Trump, who saw him clearly before he won the presidency, who shelved all of their principles just to be near power and just to have some power themselves.

And you are seeing person after person, Mulvaney, Rick Perry to a lesser degree, you know certainly Pompeo, very striking. You're seeing person after person decide that they're going to buck up and support this president no matter what he did, no matter what principles they've ever espoused in the past. I mean, it is one of the most sobering political lessons I've received in my lifetime, how much political self-interest will Trump principle -- forgive my choice of word -- in the end.

LEMON: Yes, so, Jamie, listen. Let me just read the very first line in the preface of the intel report is this. This report reflects the evidence gathered thus far. Thus far? Is there more to come because of all the Democrat surprises with this new evidence today? There were phone call records.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. I think thus far is going to go down along with everyone was in the loop and get over it. What we've seen are inconvenient facts, inconvenient people, today inconvenient phone records. And I think there is much more to come. Here are the questions you have to ask. What's coming out of the Southern District of New York? Why is all of a sudden we're reporting tonight, Jim Acosta, our colleague, that White House sources are saying that Rudy's in trouble with the president, that he needs to be distanced from Rudy. So, I think all of these things are going, but there are two phone

calls that I wanted to point to, and those are phone calls on August 8th and April 24th. And those are phone calls Rudy Giuliani to OMB. I spoke to several sources tonight who said, why in the world is Rudy Giuliani calling OMB? There is just no reason for that whatsoever. And the quote was, it was highly suspicious.

So, now we have to ask, you know, what were those calls about, and why in the world was the president's personal lawyer involved with that?

LEMON: One is a 13-minute phone call with the Office of Budget -- Management and Budget, OMB, as you mentioned. What does that mean, Guy?

SMITH: It means they were setting up the hold on the military aid, and he had probably either was just about to or had just had communicated to the Ukrainians that if you don't do what we're asking you or telling you to do, you're not getting the aid.

LEMON: Jamie, can you expound more on what you said about Jim Acosta's reporting about the president -- the campaign is souring on Giuliani?

GANGEL: So here's -- you know, the other day we heard Rudy say -- he said he was joking, but that he has insurance on the president. When you talk to former White House officials, people who have worked for Donald Trump, they will tell you that on Monday, Donald Trump tells you to do this. On Tuesday, he tells you to do the opposite. And be very careful what you do because if it doesn't turn out the way he wants it to turn out, he will forget that he told you that.

[22:25:00]

I'm not saying that Rudy Giuliani tape-recorded the president. I'm not saying he didn't tape-record the president. But I don't think it was an accident that Rudy said he had insurance on Trump, because of Trump's reputation.

BRUNI: No, I think that's a great point because why has Rudy not been thrown to the wolves yet?

GANGEL: Correct.

BRUNI: Because maybe he can't be thrown to the wolves.

SMITH: That's right.

LEMON: As we say, what you mean by that?

(LAUGHTER)

BRUNI: I mean, maybe if he gets thrown to the wolves, the president ends up getting bitten by these wolves. I mean, he ma -- I mean, look, he's all over these phone calls. He's all over the place. He's so deep into the administration's business. If Rudy Giuliani is thrown to the wolves, he may begin talking about things that become, you know, more damning than what we've seen so far.

SMITH: You ask, what else is going to come on the Giuliani thing, think about what Bolton said about Giuliani. Bolton, we're going to hear from. Bolton is a movement conservative icon. He was a real never Trumper before.

LEMON: When are we going to hear from him?

SMITH: I don't know, but it will -- and I don't think you're even going to get a vote before Christmas because I think there's going to be more cascade of things from -- I mean Pompeo wants to run for Senate in Kansas. He's got to get out --

GANGEL: Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe not. But here's the issue. Thus far means that the Democrats have more, and where that comes and what it is, we don't know yet. But I will tell you the Republicans are worried about it.

BRUNI: This whole thing is going to be closed and we're going to learn more on the tail end whether it's from Bolton's book. And one of the frustrating things here is the fact pattern is already so damning and we know the conclusion here. He does not get removed from office because Republicans have shelved their principles forever in the case of this principle.

LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it. The impeachment reports revealing calls Republican Congressman Devin Nunes had with Rudy Giuliani and his indicted associate Lev Parnas. Congressman Rajah Krishnamoorthi is on the Intel Committee there he is, he's going to weigh in next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The House Intel Committee voting tonight to send their impeachment report to the judiciary. The 300-page report lays out evidence of misconduct by President Trump and reveals never-before- seen phone records that are raising troubling questions about some of the president's allies.

Joining me now, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. I'm going to get to those phone calls. Thank you very much. Those phone records. But can you -- what does thus far mean? Can you tell us what that means?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Sure. I think that, you know, as this inquiry has proceeded and even during the hearings, people were coming forward with information. The challenge is you have to sift through the information. You have to see what's legitimate and what's not, and you can't just kind of convene a hearing with a new witness. You need to first receive their documents, make sure that it's relevant, it would actually move things along in terms of our understanding of what's happening.

And I think that's what I think Chairman Schiff was referring to by thus far. So, the investigation continues even after we submitted our report or send our report to the Judiciary Committee. But for right now, we thought that the evidence is so overwhelming with regard to the wrongdoing at issue, we had to forward this particular report, and then we can supplement it later if need be.

LEMON: Let's talk about these -- those call records. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on your committee, was communicating with Rudy Giuliani. Five calls in 15 minutes. Two days later, four calls between Nunes and Lev Parnas on important dates in the Ukraine timeline. When did you become aware of these calls, Congressman?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, we became aware of these calls once the records came in. As you know, Mr. Parnas and Giuliani were trying to dig up dirt on Biden at that time, and so this raises troubling questions as to what Mr. Nunes may or may not have had a role in with regard to that issue.

LEMON: The body language between Chairman Schiff and Nunes showed the atmosphere was tense, especially as Congressman Nunes defended the president-peddled Ukraine conspiracy theories. I want you to listen to some of that, and then we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): Once you understand that Ukrainian officials were cooperating directly with President Trump's political opponents to undermine his candidacy, it's easy to understand why the president would want to learn the full truth about these operations and why he would be skeptical of Ukraine.

Hunter Biden. Biden is another witness who the Democrats are sparing from cross-examination. The securing of an extremely well-paying job on the board of a corrupt Ukrainian company, Burisma, highlights the precise corruption problem in Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you think Nunes deceived the American people with this kind of rhetoric, knowing his own possible involvement here?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't want to comment on the specifics of that. I think that there are different bodies in the House that can investigate that particular issue. But it raises troubling questions for sure as you point out, Don.

LEMON: Yes. There are questions that Congressman Nunes needs to answer about exactly what his involvement was. What is the vehicle now to get those answers from him, Congressman?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, as you know, in the House we do have an ethics body. If a complaint were filed with that ethics body about his conduct, specifically what you referred to just in your previous passage along with potentially using taxpayer dollars to go to Europe to pursue dirt on Biden and meet with these different characters that would be yet another potential violation. That would be one avenue to potentially surface facts related to this matter. [22:35:23]

LEMON: OK. So you said the ethics committee. Would he face consequences?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Oh, sure. If there's a -- if there's a finding of a violation of House rules or ethics guidelines.

LEMON: All right. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thank you for your time. I appreciate it sir. I know you're very busy. Thank you.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Sure. Thanks, Don.

LEMON: The president's Republican allies choosing to ignore the facts in the impeachment inquiry. Were any members of the GOP break ranks as the process moves forward? Former Ohio governor -- I should say -- I almost called him a Congressman. Former Ohio Governor John Kasich weighs in. He's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

LEMON: The first phase of the impeachment inquiry is done. We have the report and the facts are out in the open for all Americans to read. But there's one group that doesn't seem to be interested in the facts and the evidence at all. That's the president's Republican allies in Congress. So joining me now to discuss is John Kasich. He's the former governor of Ohio. Good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Listen, we've talked about this on this program. You've changed your opinion about impeachment as time has gone on here. Now we've got the report. Where do you stand tonight, John?

KASICH: Well, I haven't changed my mind. I don't know what the articles are going to look like, but I haven't changed my mind, Don. I think that this is not only important as it affects the current president, but it also affects the future presidents and the precedent it its sense, if the president can do the things that he's done, withholding military aid to a vital ally who's really under great stress in order for there to be investigation of his political opponents. I think that's just flat-out wrong.

So, I haven't changed my mind, but it appears as though, Don, after thanksgiving, as we all sat around the table or whatever, the public is -- the Republican public hasn't changed their position. The Democratic public hasn't changed their position. And therefore the people that represent them have not -- you know, they haven't changed their position.

That's where we are, you know. Its party and public are aligned in both for Republicans and Democrats. And the Republicans have put out a narrative that I think is false, but they're willing to accept it, and they kind of like it. And I mean it's very frustrating and -- go ahead, Don. I don't want to keep rambling on here.

LEMON: No, no, no. Because I -- listen, in that vein, right? Along the lines of what you're saying, we saw the House vote along party lines to adopt the report. No Republicans breaking rank, right.

KASICH: Right.

LEMON: Anthony Scaramucci tweeted this. He said, is a job in Congress really that valuable where a person would ignore the truth? What do you think? You just said that they're putting out a narrative that's not right. Is Scaramucci right? Is this where we are right now?

KASICH: Well, I think that the hearings didn't move anybody, and people are just not taking that seriously. I mean, they are not -- the fact are confusing.

LEMON: But let's move it forward, though. Not to cut you off because we have a delay. I don't mean to cut you off. Let's move it forward. I mean, the hearings -- I get what you're saying. But when you look at the report, when you look at the findings, when you look at the top line, what Adam Schiff said about the report today, when you dig deep, and you look, do you think that there's a possibility that people may change, that it may move something? It may move people along?

KASICH: Right now, right now, you know, tomorrow is always another day. But right now, I think they're pretty well locked down. What do I think is going to happen? I think there will be impeachment that will move through the House. It will go over to the Senate.

It will be along party-line votes, and then I think, Don, we're going to actually be in a place where a lot of people who have watched this -- you know, people say, I don't like this behavior, I think it was wrong, but why don't we let the next election determine everything? I think this is going to be finished, and then I think all eyes are going to be on what's going to happen in November.

What's going to happen in the Senate in terms of who's going to be elected, who controls the Senate, what going to happen in the House and of course the presidency. And so, I think that in the end, the American people are going to deliver the verdict. And it isn't going to be through impeachment that Trump's going to be removed. I don't believe that's going to happen. I think it will be an election, and I think it will be an interesting election.

And for the Republicans who have really lost in, you know, Virginia. They've lost a governor's race in Kentucky. They did not win the governor's race in Louisiana, in your home state. What Republicans have to worry about is not just what's happening with impeachment, but who are their customers?

They don't seem to have young people. They don't have college-educated men or women. They don't have many minorities. They have a shrinking group of customers, and that is alarming if you're a Republican. And I'm a Republican, and I don't think it should be this way.

LEMON: Yes. So, let's move on, and I want to talk about NATO, because one person who wasn't afraid to stand up to President Trump today was French President Emmanuel Macron at the NATO summit in London. I want you to watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And would you like some nice ISIS fighters? I could give them to you. You can take everyone you want.

EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): Let's be serious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very large number of fighters you have on the ground, the fighters coming from Syria, from Iraq. And I think number one priority because it's not yet finished is to get rid of ISIS.

TRUMP: This is why he's a great politician, because I was one of the greatest non-answers I've ever heard. I think it's a good thing to get along with Russia, and I campaigned on it. I mean I'd go into big stadiums. People like it.

[22:45:00]

MACRON (through translator): It is important to have a strategic dialogue with Russia. We must do so without naivety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That was embarrassing. I mean, Trump isn't used to people challenging him like that. He's joking about ISIS and then Macron says, we need to be serious about that. He's not used to that, is he?

KASICH: Well, what's happening, Don, is you know, early on these foreign leaders walked on eggshells around Donald Trump, didn't know what he was going to do. Macron's kind of stood up to him from the beginning. I think these leaders throughout NATO, our allies are beginning to say, you know, we're not going to take this anymore.

We're going to speak out. We're going to stand up for the things that we believe in. And that is -- that could represent a withering, an unraveling of that that's kept the peace in the world for such a long period of time.

It is very concerning to me the kind of relationships we have with the Brits and the French and the Germ or the whole group of NATO. And they're getting tired of this. And so, you know, Macron is not somebody that you really want to trifle with. He's obviously a very good politician, and he's very tough. And I think he's not in that kind of a joking mood.

LEMON: Well, let me ask you this. Why can't leaders in the Republican Party take on Trump the way we saw Macron do it?

KASICH: Because they're aligned with him, and the public that supports them is aligned with him also. It's that simple. Right now there is no difference between the Republican Party and the public that represents the districts that the Republicans have. The interesting thing to watch will be what happens in the Senate,

where the Senate population is more mixed. It's more balanced. And then it's going to impose -- or it's going to create for some of these Republican Senators some real anxiety. What they're going to do about it, I don't know.

But what I do know is we -- watch this, but we have to keep our eye on November. And I think that Republicans are going to be nervous, because of the problems they have in the suburbs, and it's going to be very interesting to watch. And that's what we'll be watching as soon as impeachment is finished.

You and I will be talking, I guess about every night about what's going to happen in the November election and who is going to get to the polls and who are the Democrats going to nominate. That's what we have to keep our eye on. That's the biggest picture, not that this isn't critical. It is critical. But much of this will be resolved in November.

LEMON: The John Kasich from the Ohio state. Thank you.

KASICH: It's always great to be with Don Lemon, and I hope you spell your name, l-e-m-o-n. You're not changing the spelling because you're from Louisiana, are you?

LEMON: You're talking about burrow and LSU and Ohio. I hope we get to play each other and we just clobber you.

KASICH: That's going to be -- what a bet we're going to make. Unbelievable.

LEMON: As we say, tiger bait. Thank you, John.

KASICH: We'll see you. Thank you.

LEMON: So what happens when CNN's resident fact checker takes a few days off? Spoiler alert. The lies don't stop. We'll get you caught up.

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[22:50:00]

LEMON: The false claims from this president just keep piling up by the thousands and if you look away for a bit you could miss something pretty incredible. That's what happen when our fact checker extraordinary took a little time off over thanksgiving. But now Daniel Dale is back and he's got some catching up to do. Man, I can imagine all the work you had to do. I hope you had a good thanksgiving, welcome back. Thanks for joining.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE TORONTO STAR: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: So, this rally moment had you scratching your head. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Some people want to change the name thanksgiving. They don't want to use the term thanksgiving. And that was true also with Christmas. But now everybody is using Christmas again. Remember I said that?

(APPLAUSE)

(CHEERS)

But now we are going to have to do a little work on thanksgiving. People have different ideas why it shouldn't be called thanksgiving. But everybody in this room, I know loves the name thanksgiving. And we're not changing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Whatever. I don't know what he's talking about. I guess, the war on Christmas was so last year? I don't know.

DALE: Yes. You go away for a few days and get a whole new imaginary war. This was hard to fact check, because when he says some people. Like, you know, there's a lot of people in United States. Some people believe just about everything. But I could not find any -- even a small group of some people who want to change the name of thanksgiving.

I contacted a Native American group that host an event that the media often calls un-thanksgiving on Alcatraz Island. And they told me that that even they don't want to change the name. They say they give thanks every day and thanksgiving is not a formal name of their event. So, I have no idea who he's talking about, Don.

LEMON: OK. So, well, the president likes to attack the media. That's nothing new. But he sounds a little confused here. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're corrupt. Corrupt. It's a corrupt -- you look at ESPN and you look at what they have done. If I do something for instance al-Baghdadi, I took down -- we killed al-Baghdadi.

BILL O'REILLY, THE O'REILLY FACTOR SHOW HOST: You're talking -- you said ESPN, you're talking CNN now, right?

TRUMP: Absolutely, CNN. ESPN is pretty bad too, by the way. If you want to know the truth. That's why they're down the dog -- that's why they are down the tubes. I mean, you look at what's happen to ESPN, like a different deal, but they're pretty bad too.

In fact, maybe just as bad. But that's why they're down. You've ever noticed the academy awards used to be the greatest thing. That's why they're down, because they were hitting Trump and they were hitting millions of millions of our people. And they turned off.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [22:55:00]

LEMON: OK. So CNN, ESPN, the Academy Award. What?

DALE: Yes, this was a what for me more than a fact check. I thought this was a remarkable for two reasons. One, President Trump said I'm sorry. We usually never hear him say that in any context. And two, you know, he's has grievances with so many different entities that he could accidently refer to CNN and ESPN then say what the heck, I'm just going to complain about ESPN and then say, oh, how about the academy awards I don't like them either. And so, he's got a lot of complaints to a lot of people.

LEMON: I could go on. Unfortunately, we're out of time. And I just didn't want to over strain you. I wanted to -- you know, soft landing on your way back in to work.

DALE: Thank you. I really appreciate that.

LEMON: Thanks, Daniel Dale. Welcome back.

DALE: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Democrats calling President Trump's infamous Ukraine call the dramatic crescendo of a month's long campaign involving some of the people closest to him. What Mike Pence, Mick Mulvaney, lots of Mick and Mikes here, Mike Pompeo, might have to answer for? Next.

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