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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump: Saudi King Said Saudis Are "Greatly Angered" By Pensacola Shooter; FBI Gives Update On Deadly Shooting At Naval Air Station; Trump Orders Toilet Rule Review Because People Are Flushing "10 Times, 15 Times"; Interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT). Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 06, 2019 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Whatever's going on there, I mean, if you look at the President when he's outside, these - it's clearly it's not a light bulb problem. You can see the line around his face where the makeup, or the tanner, whatever it is, stops. It's a whole system. It's a whole thing.
But hey, you heard him say, his Administration's looking to all this, so let's leave it there. Sleep well America, and know that the President is working hard from his Throne Room to get the gridlock unclogged on The Ridiculist.
And that does it for us. The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris and CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: It is good a metaphor for the state of play as there can be. Anderson, thank you very much. I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
Now, as you know, a U.S. Naval base has become a crime scene for the second time in a week. This time it was a Saudi military member named as the murderer. We're waiting on a presser from the FBI. They took over the case.
Now, one obvious item of interest is motive, specifically, was this an act of terror? And that means something different to the FBI. They have to check certain boxes. We'll see what they say. As soon as it goes live, I'm going to take it.
We're also going to look more deeply tonight at how does our government decide who comes here and from where? And are events like this something that they figure in to the calculation?
And Rudy Giuliani is making moves that may be making things worse for this President. We have a big Senate player here tonight with what it all means to him.
What do you say? Happy Friday. Let's get after it.
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CUOMO: All right, like I said, as soon as they tell me that the press conference is ready, I think we should listen to it. Yes, we have a lot of other show planned but, you know, we can get fresh information on this very primary interest of why did this person do this.
Now, we know what happened at the base in Pearl Harbor, right? They are investigating that as some type of mental health situation. This one seems to be different, all right? So, when the FBI is ready, we will go to them.
Here's what we know.
A Saudi Air Force member, a second lieutenant in the Saudi military, is named as the suspected murderer of three. And as many - I think it was eight people went away originally with injuries, a couple of left were waiting for an update on all of their dispositions as well.
The suspect had been training three - for two years on the dime of the Saudi government, according to the Pentagon. Now, this is done a lot. There's a lot of training that goes on with international people in America.
President Trump was quick to help distance the Kingdom from the attack.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way, shape, or form, represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people so much.
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CUOMO: Now, if you've noticed in the past, this President is slow to excuse people when things happen, but not the Saudis.
And we do know that they are cooperating with the FBI's investigation. Terror, of course, is a great concern here, and is being examined. But we'll have to see if the FBI feels that that's what this was about.
Now, as we wait for more word, let's bring in CNN Counterterrorism Analyst, Phil Mudd, and CNN Global Affairs Analyst, Aaron David Miller. It's good to see you both.
Phil, I don't know if you heard my question there. But you were part of this type of process. You also did some work for the Saudis in - individually.
PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Yes.
CUOMO: So, what do you understand about how the U.S. government makes these kinds of determinations and whether or not this risk is part of the analysis.
MUDD: It's got to be part of the analysis. Look, I remember, after 9/11, when I was at - at the Bureau, you have to sit back and look at a couple categories of people there - there are people here who are immigrants from Saudi Arabia.
There are not thousands but tens of thousands of students on this base alone. There is hundreds of foreigners. There's a lot of Saudis training in this country on military bases because we obviously sell billions of dollars in military equipment.
So, you step back, and say, "Look, if you're dealing with tens of thousands of people from the Saudi military, from the student population, you've got to do a risk assessment," look at things like do they have a criminal history. That's what you--
CUOMO: All right, hold on, Phil, Phil, let me--
MUDD: Go ahead.
CUOMO: --let's hold it up because they were just doing introductions. But now we're into the meat of it. Let's listen.
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RACHEL ROJAS, FBI JACKSONVILLE SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: --grieving along with all of you. We are working tirelessly to find answers to the many questions surrounding what happened today.
FBI personnel have been here since very early this morning, first, to assist our partners at Escambia County Sheriff's Office and NCIS. And now, we are here as the agency, coordinating this investigation, moving forward.
The FBI has available and is providing a wide range of resources, including agents, Intelligence analysts, and professional staff, from multiple field offices, as well as experts from the FBI Laboratory Division, the Evidence Response Teams from numerous field offices, and Victim Services and many more.
[21:05:00]
These resources will likely continue to increase and come into this area over the next several hours and days. Just want to remind everybody here that we are all in this together.
Today, our Evidence Response Teams began processing what is a large crime scene. Their work will continue tonight and into the morning.
Their work is going to be methodical. And it will not, and cannot be rushed. They have only one chance to get this right. And this is what we owe to the families. They will be here to uncover, are going to be our critical answers that we are all seeking.
We have also been working side by side throughout the day with our law enforcement partners, with the U.S. Attorney, Larry Keefe, and his team, to push forward in any direction this investigation may take us.
That being said, we are not prepared at this hour to confirm what may have motivated the shooter, to commit this horrific act today.
There are many reports circulating, but the FBI deals only in facts, and this is still very much an active and ongoing investigation. As soon as we can, we will share more.
We are also not yet officially confirming the shooter's name. There is a process of notifications and coordination that is still taking place at this hour. But we will provide that information to you when we can, and as soon as we can.
Until then, I want you all to know that we are working this together. We are going to work this around the clock. This is a 24/7 operation. We need to do this for 24/7 because we got to get this right for the community, and everybody gets the answers that they deserve.
This is going to take us some time, and we want to thank the public, and we want to thank the media, for your patience. And I know that's a lot to ask, and I do thank you sincerely for taking the patience with this.
On behalf of FBI Jacksonville, and obviously, the entire Federal Bureau of Investigation, we offer our support to the families of our innocent victims that was taken today from all of us, and to this entire community.
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CUOMO: I mean, a really excellent job of this Agent who is in charge of the scene there, Agent Rojas, conveying a lot of emotion at the hurt that happened because of this murder on this Navy base in Pensacola.
The headlines are this. It's a big crime scene. We do know that the shooter traveled around. There are eight people who were hurt, initially. We're waiting for an update on that. They didn't have update information. They asked us to be patient. It's understandable.
As for motive, they have no information available at this time. Rojas even said that the name is something they're not confirming.
So, the one that you see swirling around out there - you probably know by now, my policy is I don't talk about murderers' names in these situations, whether they're school shootings, or something that's terror-suspected, I don't believe the name is meaningful for us, frankly. But they don't have any new information.
So, let's get to the analysis of what we do know now, what the right questions are going forward.
So Phil, you were making the point that you actually did at the governmental level weigh in, almost like an actuarial kind of assessment--
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: --that yes, at some point, one of these people may likely go bad. What - what's that about?
MUDD: I mean the business of America is business. Whether you're in the university business, or in the corporate business, we open our doors to ensure that America is a cultural center for the world.
We want students around the world and businessmen to see America, and to ensure that America allows businessmen and students in, to - to ensure the America - the American economy moves forward.
So, you look, and we did this at - at the FBI, and say, if we have tens of thousands, just in Saudi Arabia's case alone, tens of thousands of students coming in, you can't say you're going to close the door to that number of students.
You can step back, and say, if we're going to look at that number of students, we got to work it - with the Saudis, and determine things like simple, Chris, do they have a criminal background? Tougher. Let's look at their email or social media accounts, and see if they have any connectivity with people who are of concern.
CUOMO: This guy was vetted as clean.
MUDD: It's about risk mitigation. It's--
CUOMO: This guy was vetted as clean.
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: One other quick thing, Phil, and I want to get to ADM.
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: You're not supposed to have gun - as anybody's been around the military, you're supposed to check weapons. You're supposed to check ammunition. This was a hand gun. How hard is it to sneak a weapon onto a base?
[21:10:00]
MUDD: Oh, give me a break! This is America. First, the person's been here for a while. You're talking about up to two years, according to reports, in this case.
So, if you want to go into a major military base, and ensure that everybody driving onto that base gets a full personal and car check going out of the base, no way, Chris. That's just not going to happen.
CUOMO: OK.
MUDD: That's easy.
CUOMO: Aaron, thank you so much. It's great to have you on the show. The President was very quick to help the Saudi King give distance
here. And we have no information that this was anything other than one evil act, at this point. But when it comes to Saudi Arabia they do seem to get a wide berth from this President.
Do you perceive the same? And, if so, what do you see as the basis?
AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Oh, there's no question about it, Chris. It would take an atomic crowbar, I think, to separate this President from Saudi Arabia.
Oil money, the prospects of Saudi Arabia, not as an ally, and I consider it more a episodic security partner, and an important partner. But the President, I think, has created a margin of error and freedom of maneuver for the Saudis.
Having worked for four or five Administrations, never have I seen this degree of acquiescence or placating of Saudi Arabia.
CUOMO: No.
MILLER: And I think you saw it again today. The President was right to express what he heard from King Salman.
But the President could also have said, "You know, I have the assurances, firm assurances from the Government of Saudi Arabia, the King himself, that they're going to cooperate, leave no stone unturned.
They'll cooperate with the FBI in Riyadh, and we're going to get to the bottom of the motivation and the circumstances in the deaths and woundings of these Americans."
CUOMO: What is the risk--
MILLER: That, he did not say.
CUOMO: What is the risk of the gentility? This is a man, this President, who usually works on gut, as we know. 9/11 may have led this country into Iraq. But there were no Saudis involved than anyone else.
This President has talked about Islam hating this country. We do know that the Saudis export about as much money for terroristic activities as anyone in that region. We know what happened with Khashoggi. And in every one of these situations, this President has held off.
What do you think the risk is there?
MILLER: Well the risk is if - you basically reinforce bad behavior. You create the logic in the mind of an already impulsive and reckless Crown Prince that in fact Mr. Trump and the Administration will have their back, and empirically, that's exactly what the Saudis have concluded. That's the risk.
CUOMO: Something that is important for reminding, Phil. When people look at this, they'll be like, "Well the guy is Saudi. He's a Muslim. He must hate us. That's why it's got to be terror. What are you waiting for?"
Remind of what an act of terrorism means to people in the government investigative capacity?
MUDD: It is really frustrating for people to jump to conclusions. Let me tell you why the Bureau's not.
You've got to look for an act that has a political motivation, that is, you know what's inside the person's mind, against civilians, that is non-warring peoples, not the - not a military act overseas.
So, especially when you're asking about somebody who is operating, maybe alone, we don't know if this person was operating with somebody else, you've got to understand what they were thinking when they did this.
Did they want to do this for political purposes? You got to know that. We don't know that yet, Chris.
CUOMO: We don't even know if he's Muslim, frankly. I'm just talking about the--
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: --kinds of assumptions. I know that there are - you know, that of course being in Saudi Arabia, there could be a presumption, but we don't know, and there's no reason to jump.
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: Aaron, when - with what's going on right now, in terms of how we are dealing with that region of the world, we don't know that this has anything to do with it. But what is important in terms of how it's handled?
MILLER: I mean it's - it - I mean, in large part, Chris, it's a - it's a question of - of American credibility.
And it's - it's a willingness on the part of the Administration to understand that relationships in this part of the world have to be reciprocal that you don't simply apply honey in response to a security partner or an ally. Sometimes, it's necessary to - to apply vinegar as well.
And if we don't inject this sort of reciprocity in our relations, we - we end up with a situation where you end up with bad allies, Chris, and worse adversaries. And that is in fact the conundrum that the United States faces in the Middle East today.
CUOMO: The interesting thing is that, you know, you - you can imagine this President having said, "You know, I'm sure you're sorry about this. Who was this guy?
You know, why it is he the one who did this? What do you know about him? Tell us what you know right away. Your people are not foreign to you, especially when you send them over here."
And we didn't hear any of that from him. Maybe it's going on behind the scenes. But probably not, and that's the bigger question.
Phil Mudd, thank you very much.
MUDD: Thank you.
CUOMO: ADM, I appreciate it.
Now, if any other information were to arise, we'll get right back into it, and bring it to you, but that is not expected from what we heard from the FBI. It's a big scene. It's going to take them time. We don't even have any updates on the injured. If I get it, I'll give it to you.
Now, this question of "Well, does this make you rethink what we do?" Phil Mudd said, "No. We want people in here. We want military training. We want students. We want businessmen."
[21:15:00]
Let's ask a politician. Senator Richard Blumenthal has long called for a tougher stance against the Kingdom, not because of this shooting, but for many other reasons.
The Foreign Affairs Committee Member on that, and what Rudy Giuliani means to the overall case for impeachment with the newest information, next.
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CUOMO: I'm sad to report, we've had a pair of shooting sprees on domestic military bases this week, five people lost their lives, murdered, a lot of questions, not a lot of answers at this point.
The situation in Pearl Harbor is very different than what we're dealing with in Pensacola, Florida, with this Saudi Arabian man, a military officer, who's been training there.
We just took the FBI presser. They're not ready to give us information about motive or whether this has any connection to terror. They said they couldn't event confirm his name.
[21:20:00]
Connecticut Senator, Richard Blumenthal, sits on the Armed Services and Veterans Affairs Committee.
It's good to have you, Sir, as always.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: I'd like talk to you about how this is being handled because we don't know enough to proceed about what was done and what the response should be.
But the president could have put pressure on the Saudi King to give information about this guy. I mean this president has said all of Islam is out to get us. We don't know that the man is Muslim. But it is the predominant religion there.
But he goes easy here. He helped them separate themselves from this individual, in this event, as he's done in the past with Khashoggi.
Why do you think that happens, this apparent deference, and what does it mean to you?
BLUMENTHAL: Well, first of all, as you have observed very correctly, the President has given the Saudis a very wide berth. And the exact reasons for it are somewhat a mystery. He has financial interests that may be coming into play.
One of the reasons that I, and 200 Members of Congress, have sued the President in Blumenthal versus Trump, and there'll be a hearing this Monday, is that financial interests, taking benefits and payments from foreign governments have been very much a part of this Administration.
And the Saudis have spent a lot of money in his hotels, on his properties in New York. It may be an interest that comes into play.
But I've advocated re-evaluating the entire Saudi relationship because of the killing of Khashoggi, their disastrous military campaign in Yemen, using our arms, arguably, to kill civilians, their subjugation of civil rights, and particularly the rights of women, and they're exporting, in many instances, terrorism.
You mentioned very correctly, and this point is very profoundly important, their role in the 9/11 case. And I have advocated on behalf of the 9/11 families who still are seeking justice in our courts against the Saudis.
CUOMO: Now, look, we don't know that this shooting has anything to do with any political motive whatsoever. But it would be nice to have the Saudis trying to give everything they know about this individual to us as quickly as possible.
We don't know that it's not happening. We just don't know that the President asked for it, at least in his public comments.
All right, now on to the world of the known, Rudy Giuliani, I do not believe is the bad guy in this story. I believe he's an agent. I don't know if he's a lawyer, working for the President, but he's an agent.
He's now over in Ukraine, making it very public that he is there, looking for dirt about corruption with the Obama Administration, the former Ambassador, the Bidens, it's all going on, and even a tweet that said, "If Ukraine doesn't start helping in these events, they're not going to have U.S. help with their own anti-corruption reforms."
Significance?
BLUMENTHAL: Giuliani is apparently continuing to pursue this crackpot conspiracy theory that the Ukrainians, not the Russians, interfered in our 2016 elections.
And not only has that theory been completely debunked, it is, in effect, part of Putin's propaganda. It's a talking point for Vladimir Putin that it was the Ukrainians, not the Russians.
Even though our entire Intelligence Community says the Russians interfered, the Senate Intelligence Committee, headed by a Republican, says that the Russians interfered. Mueller obviously found a sweeping and systematic interference by the Russians, but Giuliani, in Ukraine right now, is seeking more evidence to support this conspiracy theory.
CUOMO: And he said in a tweet that the basic construct is exactly what this President's being prosecuted for, politically, right now, which is "If Ukraine doesn't step up and help me with what I'm doing, they are not going to get their - the help they want with anti-corruption reform."
One, he's speaking for the United States. And two, everybody on the Republican side of the Intelligence Committee said there is no proof that there was any kind of holding them up unless they helped with Biden.
He just suggested the same. Did he not?
BLUMENTHAL: He did. And he is continuing to operate this apparent shadow foreign policy that the three amigos and he pursued, now established in the very powerful evidence that's come before the Intelligence Committee.
CUOMO: They say it's all hearsay. "It's all hearsay and speculation."
Now, they don't have an answer for why all these people were never corrected in their misbelief about what was going on. It was obviously very apparent, and contagious, and being discussed.
Why didn't ever - anybody ever say "You're all wrong," except for this mystery September 9th phone call that we don't know ever really happened, where the President used the same language that the whistleblower did, except the whistleblower wasn't public yet.
The White House knew about it, used quid pro quo, he used it as well. What does that mean for you in terms of the compelling nature of the case?
BLUMENTHAL: The compelling nature of the case comes from the President's own words.
That July 25th phone call is the smoking gun here, where the President of the United States is asked by the Ukrainian President in one portion, "We need those anti-tank missiles."
[21:25:00]
The next sentence, virtually out of the President's mouth, is "I need you to do us a favor though."
What's established here is soliciting a bribe. And remember, soliciting a bribe is itself bribery.
CUOMO: It doesn't have to be effected.
BLUMENTHAL: It doesn't have to be effected, and it can be an act that would have been done. Anyway, it is soliciting bribery amounts to asking for a favor or a personal benefit in return for performing an official act.
CUOMO: So, what do you do when the Senate, if there's a trial, and it seems like there will be, and it's obviously controlled by the Republicans, and they have Rudy Giuliani, and others, come in, and just dump tons of information about how Ukraine was the source of interference, and the Bidens and Burisma were thick with corruption, that's what that trial could be about, if they want to. They control the rules. It's just a simple majority vote.
BLUMENTHAL: Their effort obviously is going to be to distract and distort. That's the meaning of Giuliani's trip abroad insofar as it tries to aid the President's defense. But it's more than distracting.
CUOMO: He says he'll testify, you know, this new friend of his over there says he wants to come in and talk about it.
BLUMENTHAL: The question will be whether or not the Republicans in the Senate want that kind of circus and show--
CUOMO: Why wouldn't they?
BLUMENTHAL: Which may undermine their position, may demean the solemn and serious effort that's underway, and here's the other point, Chris.
This theory, a conspiracy theory that has no basis in fact of law that the Ukrainians somehow interfered in our election is more than a distraction. It is actually dangerous to our national security.
It is Putin's talking point, his propaganda and disinformation. And it makes us complacent about the continuing Russian attack on our elections. Nothing could be more serious.
And I hope my Republican colleagues will not only face their constitutional duty, to abide by the facts, and the law, but also avoid this kind of circus and show that I think will backfire on them.
CUOMO: It was pleasantly surprising to hear Lindsey Graham say exactly that. "It was Russia."
I have to tell you, in the House side, I have to do some real dentistry to get Republicans to say "Yes, the Russians did it in 2016." And you're going to be up against that when it comes to the Senate.
Senator, thank you so much on a Friday night.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
CUOMO: For being with us, and an important night as well.
BLUMENTHAL: My pleasure. Thank you.
CUOMO: I'll see you soon.
BLUMENTHAL: Great.
CUOMO: All right, so there is someone who knows a lot more about the Ukraine showdown than even maybe some Congressional investigators. Has Vladimir Putin been closely listening in on President Trump's calls?
It's a big concern. Why? Andrew McCabe explains next.
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CUOMO: All right, if you're following Rudy's rovings, he tells CNN he is no longer in Ukraine, but he was there, and we know what he was doing, drawing a lot of attention, and really casting a pretty big shadow over this impeachment situation.
And now let's talk about what it could mean. Let's bring in Andrew McCabe.
So, there are two big things to look at in terms of significance. Help me understand why I should care about this first one, which I only kind of care about. So, don't be nice about it.
The idea that they were communicating over cell phones, and not secure lines, Russia could be listening, why does that matter a lot?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: OK. So, here's why it matters. The job of every Foreign Intelligence Service is to collect what - what professionals refer to as information about the policies, plans, and intents, of your adversary.
So, their job is to go out and collect information about what our leadership is thinking, what they're planning to do, and how they're going to execute those actions. There is no bigger target in the world for policies, plans, and intense information than the President of the United States. He is the Crown Jewel of all targets.
So, let's put aside for a moment the question of whether or not the President is actually using a cell phone from the Oval Office, and think about the President speaking to someone else, in a country like Ukraine, who's using a cell phone.
Right now, we know that Rudy Giuliani is - is supposedly doing that. We have reason to believe from the phone records that he has talked to the President from there before. And we know that Gordon Sondland did that as well.
Ukraine is probably the most thoroughly-penetrated country on earth by the Russian Intelligence Service. They operate almost com - with complete freedom there. Rudy Giuliani is known as a close adviser, and confidant, and counselor of the President.
CUOMO: How easily can they tap your phone?
MCCABE: Easily, Chris, very easily. In that part of the world, Intelligence Services have almost unfettered access to cellular service providers, to internet service providers, things of that - that nature.
Also, the technology to intercept individual cell phones, that are in use is widely available now, things that were like totally, you know, cutting-edge a few years ago are widely used across Intelligence Services around the globe.
So, the idea that Rudy is being covered by a Foreign Intelligence Service, I'd bet the farm on it. And if they are listening to his phone, they now know the private conversations of the President of the United States, and his attorney.
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CUOMO: And my point of emphasis is that all they have to do is watch the news, or read Twitter, and they'll know more than they need to know about what the plans and the intent is right now because Rudy Giuliani said something that I can't believe the President's team wants him to say.
He said in a tweet, "Hey Ukraine, you're not going to get U.S. help in your anti-corruption reform efforts if you don't help me with what I'm doing with the Bidens."
How is that helpful to the President's impeachment case?
MCCABE: Boy, it's not helpful at all. I mean it really resonates with all of the concerns that are being voiced by the Democratic side, right, so.
And it also undercuts, in a significant way, the President's, one of his primary defenses, which is that he was - he was pressuring Ukraine, not for his own benefit, but rather to address legitimate corruption issues.
Having his own personal attorney off the grid doing God-knows-what in Ukraine, talking to people like Andriy Derkach who has a - an extensive historical connection with Russian-backed politicians and Intelligence officials in Ukraine, I mean it's just a perfect storm of - of bad circumstances.
CUOMO: Well you're certainly not going to have a hard time finding Russians in Ukraine, who want to put stink on Ukraine for what happened in 2016. We know that out of Putin's own mouth.
Now, here's the part I don't get Andrew. This is why we need your mind on this.
I don't understand how any of this helps the case. Forget about the subtle threat to Ukraine, to step up, otherwise they're not going to get the U.S. help, which is exactly what the President's accused of doing.
But even if Rudy's right about everything, Obama was dirty, you can't - you know - you know, the former Ambassador was dirty, the Bidens with Burisma was done a little dirty, even if he's right about all of it, how does it change the case against the President, because it's still how you went about getting that type of investigation done.
You should have done it yourself, or in the Senate, with the DOJ. You're not supposed to go to Ukraine, and hold up aid to get it, even if it's true. Isn't that right?
MCCABE: That is right. That's absolutely right. So - so, why he's doing this? I mean only Rudy knows. But two things I would suggest.
One, there is clear political value to the President to just create a distraction, to go, to put up as many false narratives and conspiracy theories to get people thinking about those potential bad things rather than the bad things that the President is alleged to have done.
And the second thing is I do think that there's an element here of Rudy kind of saving himself in a way.
He seems to be going like further and further down this rabbit hole, in an effort maybe to find the one, you know, verifiable piece of proof that will show the world that "Ah-ha, he was right all along."
CUOMO: And he may be right. He can be right. And it doesn't change the analysis. That's why I always say, you know, people think it's personal, even though, you know, Rudy basically tried to decapitate me on television.
But that I say he's not the problem here. Rudy is the agent. That's all he is. If he's right about all of it, Burisma, the Bidens, Ukraine, fine. Present the evidence. Let's see what we do about it. It doesn't change the analysis. It's not about Rudy.
MCCABE: Yes.
CUOMO: It's about how the President went about getting what he wanted, and why. Andrew, I'm out of time. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend. And I appreciate it. You're always a plus for the audience.
MCCABE: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, something very important has come up. The President's bringing it to our attention, and I pass it along to you right now.
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TRUMP: We have a situation where we're looking very strongly at sinks and showers and other elements of bathrooms where you turn the faucet on.
People are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times.
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CUOMO: And the Democrats don't have somebody that for sure can beat this guy?
I want to bring in the Wizard of Odds. That's what they're up against, Wiz. And Democrats are scrambling to find an answer, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: First, the Democrats seemed to believe that anyone they had could beat this President. Now, it seems they're scrambling to find anyone who can beat this President. But today, we got a good look at what they are up against.
This was the President trying to attack the EPA for over-regulating. But he did it like this.
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TRUMP: We have a situation where we're looking very strongly at sinks and showers and other elements of bathrooms where you turn the faucet on in areas where there's tremendous amounts of water, where the water rushes out to sea because you could never handle it, and you don't get any water.
You turn on the faucet. You don't get any water. They take a shower and water comes dripping out. It's dripping out, very quietly dripping out.
People are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times, as opposed to once. They end up using more water. So, EPA is looking at that very strongly, at my suggestion.
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CUOMO: At his suggestion! And you wonder why Bloomberg got in! And yet, this President is seen as very formidable to the Wizard of Odds himself, Harry Enten, and here is why.
Despite what we just heard--
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes.
CUOMO: --and the hypocrisy of the fact that his Administration has been hurting water standards, hurting the money for keeping things protected, he's basically attacking over-regulation, big government.
ENTEN: Sure.
CUOMO: He's still tough to beat not because of how he is, but because of what's gone on, despite him, mostly in the economy. What do we know?
ENTEN: Yes. So, I think this is rather important. First, let me just say, what a Shabbos (ph) conversation, toilets and so on, so forth.
CUOMO: I know. But let's--
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ENTEN: But OK - ha, ha, ha, hilarious!
CUOMO: Thank you.
ENTEN: Look, this is basically the yearly job growth weighted each - weighted over each terms last two years. And what we see here is that the winners tend to have very good job growth, right? All of them had at least 1.1 percent or above.
The blow-outs, Nixon, 3.6 percent, 4.1 percent for Reagan.
The losers on the other hand tended to have pretty poor job growth. Carter and Bush, of course, basically got blown out, and they were below 1 percent.
So, what we see here is very clearly what has often been described as "It's the economy, stupid!" And we see that to be the case. CUOMO: We just got more good job numbers and some income pressure going up that helps the President as well.
ENTEN: Yes, so look, let's put this into some context where the President is versus where the winners versus the losers were.
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So, the average yearly job growth, again, in those final two years, the Presidents who won re-election, 2.5 percent growth, the Presidents who lost, they averaged 1 percent growth.
Where is Trump? Trump over the last year is right in the middle there at 1.5 percent. And I think this is rather important.
CUOMO: But he sells it as being the best ever.
ENTEN: Well he sells a lot of things at being the best ever, you know. So, that's not too much of a surprise. Sometimes he sells toilet pressures being the best ever.
But I think this is rather important is that growth is what's important. It's not the absolute levels. It's basically where you've grown, and basically with the economy at this point, we're kind of running into a wall, since we're near max employment.
CUOMO: So, you think that the Democrats can use the economy against this President?
ENTEN: I - I - I think that the economy is not the Silver Bullet that he necessarily thinks it is, although it's certainly rather helpful because, you know, if you take a look here, what we see is Trump standing on the economy, his approval rating 55 percent in our latest poll, but that is below his overall approval rating of 42 percent.
So clearly, voters are judging him stronger on the economy than overall, which is perhaps why he should be talking more about the economy than about other things.
CUOMO: But - and this also goes to the point I made on the last panel, which is he sells it as the best ever. It's obviously working.
ENTEN: It--
CUOMO: Because the number of growth, that growth percentage you're showing, middle-of-the-road, would not justify 55 percent.
ENTEN: Yes. It's certainly working to the extent that if, you know, basically you were to say, "OK, if you approve of Trump's job, why is it?" Here are the top five reasons. This is rather interesting.
So, among those who say they approve of Trump's job, 26 percent say the economy, look at this, jobs and unemployment, 8 percent, getting things done, doing a good job, generally speaking, again, related to the economy, 10 and 9 percent.
So, people who approve of the job that the President is doing, they do so because of the economy.
CUOMO: So, if you are looking to figure out what the best avenue is for change, what is it? Is it to go with the man directly?
ENTEN: Yes, I - I - I think that that's exactly right.
If you were to say why should we change this President, look at these, these are Trump's qualities, essentially Presidential qualities, has stamina and sharpness to be a President, could bring the type of change the country needs, so on, so forth, you can read that, you see it up on the screen.
Look at this. This is so important because on this, yes, what do we see? Majorities all say in fact "No, he does not have these qualities."
Majorities are saying the President doesn't have these Presidential qualities. And that is why, in spite of what they approve of as a strong economy, he is behind, at least in a number of the horserace polls that we've seen so far.
So, go after the man, say he's un-Presidential. And that's why I think you saw a lot of good response to Biden's ad this week.
CUOMO: Do you think you could have - you could name another person who could ever win a Presidential election talking about people needing to flush 10 to 15 times?
ENTEN: No. But, you know, perhaps that might be a Student Council election. I should have used that.
CUOMO: One-of-a-kind, one-of-a-kind.
ENTEN: One-of-a-kind, just like you.
CUOMO: Wiz, thank you so much.
ENTEN: Good Sabbaths. Shalom everyone.
CUOMO: Probably shouldn't call him "The Wiz" given the context of that conversation. But I did. It's too late.
Nikki Haley, hopefully, for her, it's not too late, but she's taking heat, and justifiably so. Did you hear what she said about the Confederate flag? I have it as the basis of the argument. It's bigger than her. But she's got to get away from what's coming her way. Next.
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CUOMO: All right, you ready? This is a tough one tonight.
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(JULY 10, 2015, COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA VIDEO OF CROWD CHEERING THE CONFEDERATE FLAG COMING DOWN)
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CUOMO: This moment was a defining moment for then-Governor Nikki Haley, when the Confederate Flag came down at South Carolina State, at the Capitol, and after the Charleston Church massacre. It was big. It meant a lot all over the country and for her personally.
But now, Haley is floating a new theory about why the flag had to come down. Listen to this.
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NIKKI HALEY, FORMER UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Here is this guy that comes out with his manifesto, holding the Confederate flag, and had just hijacked everything that people thought of.
You know, people saw it as service, and sacrifice, and heritage, and - but once he did that, there - there was no way to overcome it.
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CUOMO: Service, sacrifice, and heritage? Service to slavery, the sacrifice of the slaves, and the heritage of slavery, that's what it was about.
Haley knows one murderer didn't co-opt that flag. He used it for what it is, like every other bigot and White extremist, these guys, the KKK, neo-Nazis, Right-wing nationalists.
And again, Haley knows this. This is the worst part. Here's the proof.
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HALEY: It just never should have been there.
And these grounds are a place that should be that belonged to the people of South Carolina. And what I realize, now more than ever, is people were driving by, and they felt hurt, and pain. No one should feel pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: "Never should have been there." She got it, and she should, because it was, is, and always has been obvious, especially as a family like hers, immigrants who felt the sting of being an "Other."
So, the question is, why pump up this flag? Is she falling in line with this Trumpy forgetfulness of what bigotry is, the malignancy of it? Is she trying to curry favor with certain voters like the leader of her Party does?
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TRUMP: You know what I am? I'm a nationalist, OK? I'm a nationalist.
(CROWD CHEERING)
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CUOMO: You really want to be like that, playing with ideas and labels that are used by White nationalists, 20th Century dictators, and now, apparently the President of the United States?
You're going to start to wonder about whether Islam is now out to get us because maybe this Saudi murderer is Muslim, and the Navy base is proof that she's got to be like her ex-boss?
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TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.
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CUOMO: It's not about Haley. It's bigger than she is. Standing idly by as supporters chant sending back a Member of Congress. Remember this?
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(TRUMP SUPPORTERS CHANTING "SEND HER BACK" AT RALLY)
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CUOMO: Born here, by the way, the person they were talking about.
Look, demonizing practically anyone who crosses the Southern border, it's all part of the same idea, this.
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TRUMP: They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists.
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CUOMO: Is this what Nikki Haley wants to be? Talk like bigotry is benign, nationalism is patriotism, xenophobia is just common sense suspicion of an entire faith? It is not OK. And we know where Trump got it. He went out early in this process to visit Steve King, as in the King of Contempt for Latinos.
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REP. STEVE KING (R-IA): For everyone who's a valedictorian, there's another 100 out there that they weigh a 130 pounds, and they've got calves the size of cantaloupes because they're hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert.
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CUOMO: Right. You know, he learned from that guy, from Tom Tancredo. He learned that that could be effective with a certain population of his Party.
But is that who Haley wants to be? She was seen as this Party's, you know, the hope. I'll get more of that in a second because what the Party is dealing with right now is capitulation to this fetid BS.
The biggest indicator of this Party's leaning has become its silence. It is like the malignancy of the ideas from this President will lead nowhere but to more victory, so "Shh!"
Well the midterms told you otherwise, but so should this. You don't sell hate in America.
You don't do that, and get a majority, not now, not ever. Too many of us are just a couple generations removed from being the people you attack or that you just sit quiet in the face of when some big-shot is doing the same. You empower what you ignore. And you are complicit in what you excuse. Silence is not safety.
That's the problem with Nikki Haley, saying what she did about the Confederate flag. She's ignoring the obvious, and we know that she knows it's obvious, because she said it before she said what she said now.
The latest example of a Party that has surrendered principle for - for power, and we see it with impeachment, collective blindness of the obvious.
They all know Trump was wrong to do what he did, how he did it, and why he did it. They know. They were more righteous about Clinton's escapades than this obvious escapade to procure foreign help in the election.
But the normalization of evil symbols and words is even more toxic than impeachment.
Nikki Haley, please, tell us you didn't mean it, tell us that you haven't surrendered the truth for some Trumpy notion of popularity. So many saw you as the hope for the future of your Party. Don't stand as proof that hope is lost. That's the argument tonight.
All right, now, for all of us, Young Wonders, a CNN Heroes special is coming up next. Enjoy.
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