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Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) is Interviewed on Impeachment; November Jobs Report; Active Shooter at Pensacola Naval Air Station. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 6, 2019 - 08:30   ET



REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): And then they did and then obstructing the investigation with Mueller is very similar to the conduct here, asking a foreign government to involve itself in our elections and then obstructing Congress. So that pattern of conduct is certainly relevant to show, this is just who he is and this is what he does.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: But you wouldn't necessarily support or go out of your way for a specific article dealing with the Mueller investigation obstruction of justice per say?

SWALWELL: Well, you know, I'll support what our leadership goes with, but I do think we have to keep it focused, you know, specifically on the urgency of an upcoming election and the duty to protect that election.

BERMAN: Can you explain what happened with the phone logs that were part of the Intelligence Committee report that was made public last week, because we've now seen them, right, and Rudy Giuliani made a number of phone calls, according to this log, to the White House. But in the logs that the Democrats turned over, it also said there were calls to OMB or the logs suggested there were calls to OMB. The White House is now saying, you know, that isn't necessarily true. There's a wide range of possible White House numbers that those calls could have been made to. So are you certain this morning it was OMB?

SWALWELL: What I am certain of is that the White House has not given us any of the records we've requested. So if they want to be helpful, they should respond to the 72 document requests that we have made, John.

But what you see here is that Rudy Giuliani, president of the lawyer, president of -- Rudy Giuliani, lawyer to President Trump, is out there doing the work of Donald Trump, including making calls that we believe are to OMB, also working with --

BERMAN: Do you believe they were to OMB? Because here's the thing --


BERMAN: There's no question he made a lot of calls to the White House and OMB is part of the White House and no one's disputing that, no one's disputing the White House actually has this information. It could turn it over today.

What I want to know is if the Intelligence Committee still thinks those calls were to OMB.

SWALWELL: I have not heard a reason we have -- we think otherwise. And, John, the White House excuse I heard this morning was, well, it could have also been the National Security Council. OK, why the hell was Rudy Giuliani calling the National Security Council? That's not really much of a defense. If they want to clear this up, they should turn over all of the records that they have.

BERMAN: And, Congressman, I do want to play one other bit of sound. It has to do with these phone logs. Because, among other things you revealed is that Lev Parnas spoke to Devin Nunes, the ranking member of the Intelligence Committee. This is what Devin Nunes had to say about that phone log last night. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you discuss with Lev Parnas?

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): Well, I don't even know because I don't -- I've never met Parnas. And like I filed in federal court. And so, you know, it's a great question because many people want to know, including myself. So, you know, we're looking --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you never had any phone conversation with him?

NUNES: We -- we have not been able to confirm that yet.


BERMAN: What do you make of that answer, Congressman?

SWALWELL: We're not asking him about phone calls ten years ago. This is a phone record that -- phone records that relate to this year. And it just -- his story continues to change.

You know, the phone records are what they are. We have every reason to believe that Lev Parnas and Rudy Giuliani were in contact with Devin Nunes as this smear and clear campaign was taking place against Ambassador Yovanovitch to get her out of the way for the president to run his corrupt scheme.

BERMAN: Congressman Eric Swalwell, we appreciate you being with us this morning.

SWALWELL: Of course.

BERMAN: We look forward to speaking to you over the next few weeks because this is an historic moment for the country.

SWALWELL: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Erica.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: We are following breaking news at this hour out of Pensacola, Florida. There's a developing situation at the Naval Air Station there right along the Florida panhandle, as you can see. The U.S. military confirming there are reports of an active shooter. We can tell you that both gates have been secured at the Naval Air Station.

If you're familiar with the area, this, of course, is home also to the Blue Angels. That might say something to you.

The county sheriff there also confirming there's an active shooter situation to CNN.

The base itself employs some 16,000 military personnel, more than 7,000 civilians.

As we gather more information, we will bring it to you.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.



BERMAN: All right, breaking news, the Labor Department just released the November jobs report. And it is a big number.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans here with that.



A strong number, 266,000 net new jobs. This blows away expectations. We were looking for something more like 180,000.

A couple of things to point out here. October and September also revised higher. So you've got some more strength in the fall than we had been hearing from some of the other kinds of data that we watch here.

So companies are hiring, and have been hiring at a pretty brisk pace this fall. The employment rate fell to 3.5 percent. That is still this very, very fit low, 50-year level. A, you know, a couple of generations of people have not seen this kind of unemployment rate. It continues to be that low.

So where are the hiring -- where is the hiring? Look at manufacturing. That's almost entirely GM. GM and a little bit more. All those people coming back from that GM strike, so that's pushing that number up.

But across the board, in health care, 45,000 jobs added there. Over the past year, you guys, 414,000 jobs added in health care. All up and down the wage spectrum in health care. So this has been a very, very dynamic part of the American economy. Professional And technical services up 31,000 there. That has also

been strong.


So whether you're talking about doctors' offices or hospitals or office buildings or factories, there was hiring in the period.

I want to just zero in on manufacturing for the month. You can see how erratic this has been because of that GM strike, 41,000 of those manufacturing jobs there on the far right of your screen are all GM jobs. They're probably other attendant manufacturing jobs that aren't GM but service that part of the economy that are also added there.

But you can see, that has been slowing lately. We've been concerned about the slowdown in manufacturing job creation because manufacturing is technically in a mild recession here. Four months of contraction there.

But, overall, I just want to go back to the jobs added picture here. Overall, strength in the fall. A stronger labor market than we had thought, guys.

BERMAN: Well, very strong. Big numbers. All right, Romans, thank you very much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

BERMAN: We do have breaking news.

We're getting some new information about a shooting at the Naval Air Base in Pensacola, Florida. We'll bring you what we can figure out just after the break.



ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: We do have breaking news for you.

The U.S. military now confirms there is an active shooting situation at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida. CNN has confirmed there is one shooter at this air base, a very big, prominent air base, some 16,000 military personnel, 7,000 military personnel -- non- military personnel.

Local news is reporting they have seen ambulances at the local hospitals. We have been told the gates to the air base are closed and secured.

HILL: Which is important. And as you point out, this is a -- this is massive if you've ever been to this area in terms of not only the space it occupies, but as you point out, John, the number of people who are employed there. So, you know, more than 23,000 people. BERMAN: Right.

HILL: A number of them military. And the question right now, obviously, is, what else do we know? As you point out, we know at this point, CNN has confirmed, one shooter. But this, of course, comes on the heels of what we saw at Pearl Harbor on Wednesday, and that is likely weighing very heavily on folks there and even folks at home as you're watching this.

BERMAN: All right, retired Rear Admiral John Kirby joins us now on the phone. He, of course, was the Pentagon and State Department spokesperson, also based at the Naval Station in Pensacola for five years.

Tens of thousands of Naval aviators have passed through there, admiral, not to mention so many other military personnel.

What are your thoughts as you see this unfolding this morning?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST (via telephone): Well, it's just devastating to hear this news, particularly on the heels of what happened at Pearl Harbor. And so it's hard to hear this, and having lived there, my brother-in-law literally lives not far from the base, just outside the back gate. My wife went to high school down there. So my thoughts and prayers are for everybody at Pensacola.

They love the Navy. That town has really wrapped its arms around the service. And so I'm sure even the city of Pensacola and all the residents there are likewise deeply troubled by this.

It is a massive base geographically. It's also a very important base to (INAUDIBLE). As you rightly pointed out, they train naval aviators there, but they also -- (INAUDIBLE) significant whole eastern side of the base is really dedicated to training young enlisted personnel who want to be naval engineers or, you know, working on air -- the maintenance crew or air crew. You know, people that fly with the pilots in the planes. So there's a massive training element there and disruption to that, obviously, is going to hurt the Navy, even if it is only for a short period of time.

BERMAN: All we know at this point is there is one shooter. The military is telling us the gates have been locked and closed and local media is reporting that they are seeing ambulances now arrive at the hospital.

There must be protocol -- we know there are protocols in place for these types of situations. 2009 in Ft. Hood, the, you know, the naval station in Washington, D.C., we saw a shooting there --

KIRBY: Right.

BERMAN: Not to mention Pearl Harbor a few days ago.

So what is likely happening right now on that base, admiral? KIRBY: Well, the first thing that happened was you want to get your

base security to the location you have that shooting and to alert local law enforcement. It looks like from the press coverage I've seen, they've done that. There's local law enforcement, Escambia County Sheriff's Department, probably Pensacola City Police on the base assisting base security. There is a very competent, military base security system there at Pensacola, but -- and something like this, they're going to want local help. It sounds to me like from the press coverage they've done that.

We've also seen reports of helicopters and local city ambulances coming as well to deal with the -- whatever -- whoever's injured. So that looks like they've done that coordination now outside the -- outside the base.

They locked the base down, which also, of course, makes perfect sense because you don't want to let this shooter off the base. You want to contain it as best you can.

And now it seems like they're dealing with both the fact that this shooter is still alive, so there's still an active search for him or an active hunt going on, as well as, you know, deal with the casualties.

So it sounds like they've done just about everything they can in the early minutes. The next step for them is going to be, you know, once it's equalized, how do you go ahead and communicate that to people on the base and the people in Pensacola so that they know, you know, that it is now safe, that that situation is now neutralized.

Of course we're not there yet. Hopefully we will be soon and there won't be any more injuries.

But the big key is securing the situation, securing the base, which they've done, and reaching out to local law enforcement and local medical support to try to get the support you need on base while something is ongoing.

HILL: And then to your -- to your point, CNN has confirmed not only is the base on lockdown, is the Naval Air Station on lockdown, but CNN is confirming now at this point there are injuries that we know.


Also, local affiliate in the area, WEAR, is reporting five being treated at Baptist Hospital. And, again, as you pointed out, John, local media saying they are seeing ambulances arriving at the local hospital.

KIRBY: Right.

HILL: And again, at this point --

BERMAN: OK, the local sheriff's office just told CNN, we can confirm there was an active shooter on base. There is no longer an active shooter. The shooter is confirmed dead. That is the latest information we are getting.

KIRBY: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Well, I mean, I'm certainly happy to hear that it's been neutralized, but it just sounds -- it just sounds tragic. It really does.

And, I mean, obviously we don't know who the shooter is, what the motive was. We don't know who he shot at or why. But I do want to go back to something John said very early in this, and that it is a big base. You know, almost 20,000 people. Not to mention you've got lots of families on -- that live on this base. My family lived on the base. So you could have lots of children and dependents and spouses that live there, too.

It is a -- it is a young base because a lot of naval aviators in training are young in age and a lot of these air crewmen and air maintenance people that work on these airplanes are very young in age. But I would suspect that the average age at Pensacola Air -- Naval Air Station is probably in the young 20s. I mean it's a young base. And so it just -- and we don't know who the victims are. Clearly, we don't know who the -- who the shooter was. But I think it's important to remember just how many people are there and how young they all are. They're all there because they're starting out their Navy careers. They want to be in naval aviation and they're all -- they're all very young.

HILL: And so -- and so, again, you know, just to confirm, as you just said, we've just confirmed that the shooter is dead we're told. There are injuries.

I want to pick up on something you said, though, about the fact that there are families who live on this base. There are children on this base. There are young people. You know, so, Admiral, you were saying, once the base has been secured, getting that message out, how does that work? When you're dealing with more than 20,000 people who are employed there, right, 16,000 of them military personnel --


HILL: How does that message go out to some of these, you know, young families even to say, OK, now the coast is clear?

KIRBY: Well, there's a -- there's various ways you can do this. Obviously they'll use technology, social media. They will have base security, those that are not engaged in the actual (INAUDIBLE) will drive through those neighborhoods and alert the families directly that they need to keep the kids inside, stay inside their homes. They'll use the public announcement broadcast capabilities that they have in various parts of the base. Now, they don't have like a big speaker system that (INAUDIBLE) across the whole span of the base because it's so big, but they have some inside the buildings. So inside individual work spaces, they will -- they will get public announcements over their PA system to tell them to stay put.

And, of course, they'll do everything they can using local media, which they've done. They've reached out to local media to let them know that they're on a locked down so that -- so that not only that people on base know to stay put, but that people off base know to stay away from it.

BERMAN: I want to recap what we know.

There has been a shooting at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida. The shooter is dead. We are being told that there are injuries. CNN has confirmed that there are injuries. Local media is reporting that there are ambulances at the hospital. But the shooter is dead.

We are waiting to get more information.

Our Victor Blackwell has been on the phone digging for information.

Victor, what can you tell us?


BERMAN: All right, I think Victor's having a hard time hearing me.

Again --

BLACKWELL: Wait, John, I've got you.

BERMAN: OK, Victor.


BERMAN: What have you learned about this shooting at this point?

BLACKWELL: OK, so we've just learned from the Escambia County Sheriff's Office that the shooter in what was, we're told, an active shooter incident, that shooter is dead. So that is the big headline here.


BLACKWELL: We know that, according to a statement from NAS Pensacola that both gates are locked down here and that this facility is under lockdown. That confirmation coming from the Navy.

We've also learned from federal law enforcement sources to our Shimon Prokupecz that there are reports of injuries. However, the extent of those injuries, the number of those injuries, that not -- that is not known. But a facility of this size, 16,000 military employees, 7,400 or so civilian employees, you can imagine the concern and the security priority that is placed there, especially at a military facility.

But we're told that both the Pentagon and the Navy are looped in. They're aware of these reports.

But the latest now, the shooter in what was an active shooter situation confirmed by Escambia County Sheriff's Office, that shooter is dead. We're still waiting for the numbers on those injuries and the number of any transports.


No information about any potential fatalities, John.

BERMAN: All right, Victor, thank you very much. Keep digging. Let us know what you find out.

We just lost Admiral Kirby.

One of the things that has taken place at military air bases all around the country since Ft. Hood and others, you know, is they have changed their protocols and they have increased their protocols and securities.

This is a small. This is a small city at this point. And as Admiral Kirby was pointing out, it's not just the military personnel, it's their families. There are schools on this base.

HILL: It's also, with both gates on lockdown, it's also, having been to that Naval Air Station to a number of occasions, to your point, John, in terms of security, you're not just driving on and going wherever you want at a facility like this.


HILL: So that's important to take into account as well.

We are just -- we are just learning at least five injured is the number that we are just getting here. And as you point out, local media reporting they're seeing ambulances, plural, arrive at hospitals -- at the hospital.

So, again, at this point, five injured. No reports of fatalities at this moment. We hope it stays that way, obviously.

BERMAN: We have some live pictures, I think, of the area right now. OK, so this looks like it is outside that military base and you can see it is more or less shut down in that area. Not much activity.

It is worthy -- worth noting that there was just a shooting in Pearl Harbor at the military base there this week where there were four people killed at -- two people killed --

HILL: Two civilians killed who were working there and then the sailor who took his own life as we learned.

I think we have Admiral Kirby back with us.

BERMAN: Yes. And, Admiral, the question I wanted to ask you, what is the weapons protocol on a base like this Naval Air Station? What is allowed? How will that normally be handled?

KIRBY: I'm sorry, John, were you talking to me?

BERMAN: Yes, Admiral, I was trying to figure out what the weapons protocol is. KIRBY: Yes, so -- well, I mean, the -- it's not a -- it's not like an

infantry base where there's a lot of issued -- government-issued personal weapons to the sailors and to the officers. It is a naval aviation training base focused on flying skills and air crew and maintenance. So the average sailors are not armed. The only ones that are armed typically at Pensacola Naval Air Station are the security forces. And it's a mix that you have some civilians that work in the Naval Air Station security apparatus and you have some enlisted sailors, masters at arms we call them, which also supplement base security. They are trained and allowed to have arms.

There is a firearms training range at the base because we expect our naval aviators to know how to use small arms when they're -- when they fly over combat areas. They have to be armed in the cockpit in case they get shot down. So there is a small arms training range there. But again, the only ones that are really armed are the security people there. It is not -- it is not like an Army infantry base where every soldier is expected to know how to use and to possess a weapon.

HILL: Which really helps put it -- put it in context, too, just to sort of set the scene for us there.

And, again, if you're just joining us, what we're talking about here is breaking news out of Pensacola, Florida. The Naval Air Station there, there was one active shooter earlier today. We have confirmed that shooter is dead. We are told there are at least five injured. And the base still, at this hour, as far as we know, remains on lockdown. A base that is not only home to a number of folks who might be living on the base at this point, but also employs a number of people, more than 23,000, 16,000 of them active military personnel, but more than 7,400 civilians.

BERMAN: And when you hear that number, five injured, that's a preliminary number.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: All that means is that multiple people at this point have been injured. And we don't know if worse. At this point, we have no word of fatalities other than the shooter, his or herself.

But again, this does change. We get different reports as we get more information from the various medical facilities in the region there.

Again, we're looking at a map there. The Naval Air Station at Pensacola, Florida. The ATF, we're told, is also reporting to the scene. This is a big deal at this point. So you have military responding, you have local authorities responding as well, as now the ATF is on the scene.

HILL: And Admiral Kirby is still with us.

As you said, you spent, I believe, five years at that air station. Also, could you just put into context for us, we know this is a massive air station. It is also an integral part of the community there in Pensacola. KIRBY: Oh, yes, absolutely. The base has been in existence since,

what, 1913. So before World War I. And it is a major source of economic strength for the community. Obviously, Pensacola is a terrific tourist town and they've got -- they've got a lot of money through the tourism industry, as well as fishing (ph). But the Navy is a significant part of their economy.


And not only that, I mean it's just home to people who just love the military, they love this country and they really love the Navy. The Blue Angels fly out of Pensacola. That's why I lived there for five years. I was with the Blue Angels for a few --