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Hala Gorani Tonight
Another Hung Parliament Possible in U.K. Election; House Judiciary Impeachment Opening Statements Tonight; Interview with Dan Stewart on Time Magazine's Selection of Greta Thunberg as Person of the Year; Rep. Dan Kildee (D-MI) Interviewed About Trump Impeachment; Final Day Of General Election Campaign; House Committee To Debate Impeachment In Prime Time; Volcano Tour In New Zealand Turns Into Nightmare; Kenyan Company Brings Digital Organization To Businesses. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 11, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:15]
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, party leaders are making their final push for votes here in the U.K., all to decide the fate of Brexit.
Also, "Time Magazine" just named its youngest Person of the Year. We'll ask the magazine's international editor about the choice.
And a disturbing new report: what Boeing knew about its 737 Max planes and why those planes will not be flying any time soon.
We're just hours away, everybody. It is Election Eve here in the U.K., just 12 hours before polls open in a vote that could decide Britain's very
place in the world.
It is a crowded field, as you can see. The latest polls show Prime Minister Boris Johnson's Conservatives are losing momentum -- they're still
in the lead -- but the projection is that their majority could be slashed by more than half over the past couple of weeks. Here's what the prime
minister said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: (INAUDIBLE) could not be more critical, it could not be tighter. I'm just saying to everybody,
the risk is very real, that we could tomorrow be going into another hung parliament. That's more drift, more dither, more delay and more paralysis
for this country --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's the big risk for the Conservatives, a hung parliament, which means no party would get a majority. He is referring to Brexit
there. It is at the heart of this snap election, the question of Brexit.
Mr. Johnson was up before dawn, trying to woo undecided voters by delivering milk, but it didn't go according to plan because he had a tense
encounter with a morning show reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Go on, (INAUDIBLE).
JONATHAN SWAIN, ITV CORRESPONDENT: Prime Minister, will you deliver on your promise to come on "Good Morning Britain"?
JOHNSON: Of course I will.
SWAIN: Thank you very much. Would you do that this morning for us?
JOHNSON: Is that all right there, or is that going to be (INAUDIBLE) fall off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's fine. No, I'll move it --
JOHNSON: There you go, there you go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE), Prime Minister.
JOHNSON (?): That's a good one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, there you have it. And you had, by the way, on Twitter, a lot of people mocking Boris Johnson, saying he hid in a refrigerator to
avoid the reporter's questions.
This campaign hasn't always gone according to plan for the Tories, the Conservatives. Also the Labour Party as well. And you could see here, in
one of the daily newspapers, "The Times" of London, Tory Lead Narrows Ahead of the Final Vote. So that is really a big concern for the Conservatives.
We're covering this from all angles. Hadas Gold is here with me, following the media and social aspects of the election. They've been very important
and pivotal this election. Let's go to Phil Black, he's at 10 Downing Street.
Of course, polls project that the Conservatives most likely will get a majority tomorrow. But there has to be some concern that these gaffes and
mishaps might put that in jeopardy for them.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Indeed, Hala, that's right. And this latest set of research suggests a majority, but even the margin of error
there means that he could win by more or he could win by less, and certainly, yes, that's within the territory of a hung parliament.
And that's why you heard him speaking with such urgency there, to people who he hopes minded (ph) to vote for him, people who care about Brexit,
people who are nervous about the idea of Prime Minister Corbyn. He says, don't take a Conservative victory for granted. Brave the weather, get out
and vote Conservative to try and ensure that that happens.
Because Boris Johnson knows that anything less than an overall majority that allows him to deliver Brexit will be a humiliating defeat for him.
It's the reason why he wanted this election in the first place. Whereas for Labour, victory in theory looks very different.
Labour knows that the electoral map means that it's pretty much impossible for them to get an overall victory, so the goalpost is in a different
place. Their best-case result would be being the biggest party in yet another hung parliament, from which they could then govern as a minority.
Or perhaps they have another option, and it would be extraordinary but it's technically possible, and that is where you could see them coming second in
a hung parliament, and yet still teaming up, forming a coalition of some kind with another group -- say the Scottish National Party -- and still
being able to form government in that way.
None of it is easy, none of it is certain. But what it all means is that in these final hours of the campaign with so much at stake, neither leader
of the major parties can be truly confident about what tomorrow will bring -- Hala.
[14:05:00]
GORANI: All right. We'll be covering it.
Hadas Gold is here with me in the studio. And there have been a lot of dirty tricks used in this particular campaign. We have a list among many
that we'd like to focus on. I mean one, for example, is a website that was sort of, quote-unquote, "masquerading" as a fact-checking website, and it
was in fact run by the Conservative supporters.
HADAS GOLD, CNN REPORTER: Yes. So I mean, dirty tricks are part of every political campaign since time eternal. But what's different about this
one, it's not only about how dirty they've become, but also the way that their tricks are used. We're seeing a lot more social media and the
digital space. And experts that I spoke to who study politics and the internet said they've never seen an election this bad.
So I think the number one on the list is this FactcheckUK. This was on Twitter during the first head-to-head debate between Boris Johnson and
Jeremy Corbyn. The Conservative Party press account that you can see right there made their Twitter account look a lot like a fact-checking website.
I look at that right there, that to me seems like a normal fact-checking website. It's really hard to tell.
GORANI: You wouldn't think this is run by the Conservative Party? Yes.
GOLD: You would not think it's run by the Conservative Party.
Then of course there were these selectively edited videos that appeared --
GORANI: Yes.
GOLD: -- on social media. So this is, for example, an interview with Keir Starmer with "Good Morning Britain," that the Conservatives posted a video
edited as though he couldn't give an answer --
GORANI: Yes.
GOLD: -- to Labour's decision on Brexit, when in the actual interview, he gave a full answer, and immediately.
Now, Labour is also guilty of this. They actually recently took down a video that the "Financial Times" claimed was selectively edited to make
their reporter seem to be doing something that he wasn't. So they also got in trouble.
And we've seen so many other things. We've also seen campaign pamphlets look a lot like local newspapers, so it would be hard to tell when you
first get it that it's not your local gazette.
And then we're also seeing just the -- more of the classic kind of anonymous free things that might be a little bit misleading, that then lead
to reporters to say things that might turn out to not be true. We saw this recently with the punch that was not actually a punch --
GORANI: The punch that never was. And the BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg tweeted a news item based on what a senior source told her, but
she then apologized, saying, "Happy to apologize for earlier confusion about the punch that wasn't a punch." So, I mean, it -- these sort of
senior sources briefing reporters to try to kind of mold the conversation or point them in a certain direction, that has also been an issue this --
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: And that's been an issue for a long time.
GORANI: Because you have to tweet quickly. You know, now --
GOLD: Yes.
GORANI: -- when you're a reporter, you've got to put this information out every -- you know, as soon as you get it.
GOLD: And it's -- and it's so hard because if you take the time to actually check everything, then you will lose the scoop, you'll lose the first
person there.
But I think what's important to keep in mind here is, part of the reason we've seen this proliferate in this campaign is that although there are
U.K. laws around what we can say on TV during the election, what the campaign ads can be, there's no regulation on social media. It's the Wild
West. You can say and do pretty much whatever you want, and we've seen the political parties take advantage of that.
GORANI: All right. Hadas Gold, thanks very much. Hadas will be part of the team covering this election. We will be covering this election as well
with my colleague Richard Quest and the whole team. Polls close at 10:00 p.m. here in London.
But we cannot, by the way, discuss polls or campaign issues. This is something that's not allowed in the U.K., those are Ofcom rules, as they're
called, so we'll be showing you the images that we can show you, but we'll be giving you the first exit polls starting at 10:00 p.m. London time,
which is 11:00 p.m. Central European time.
Speaking of politics, but this time in the United States, it's promising to be a long night on Capitol Hill, and the stakes for the Trump presidency
could not be higher.
Just hours from now, a House committee will begin debating two articles of impeachment meant to remove Donald Trump from office. So far, the hearings
have been scheduled during the day, when many Americans are at work without the luxury of watching TV. Today's session is different. Lawmakers will
get to make their case for and against impeachment in prime time, so technically more people should be able to watch this.
President Trump is accused of abusing his power and obstructing Congress, both counts related to pressuring Ukraine for political favors. Mr. Trump
is dismissing the charges, almost taunting Democrats, calling their impeachment effort "weak." Here he is at a campaign rally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You saw their so-called articles of impeachment today? People are saying they're not even a crime.
What happened? All of these horrible things, remember? Bribery and this and that, it got (ph) -- where are they? They send these two things,
they're not even a crime. This is the lightest, weakest impeachment. This is impeachment-lite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Democrats say the charges they announced fall under high crimes and misdemeanors, that's what's in the Constitution, which are impeachable
offenses under the U.S. Constitution.
Let's get an update now from CNN's Phil Mattingly, he's live on Capitol Hill.
So talk to us about what to expect. Because I mean, the fact that these hearings will be in prime time, does that change the calculus at all here?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think you're going to be the -- Hala, you're going to see the members very cognizant of that
fact, and maybe that will play into the opening statements you're going to see tonight. But I think that's the key thing to focus on tonight.
[14:10:05]
These are opening statements. This isn't a legislative process, this isn't a legislative hearing necessarily. This is all 41 members of the Judiciary
Committee getting five minutes each to lay out why they are for or why they are against impeachment.
And I think we've seen, over the last couple of weeks, that will break down entirely along party lines, every member -- Democratic member of the
Judiciary Committee is supportive of the two articles of impeachment that have been put forth by the Democrats; every Republican has made clear they
are very, very opposed.
The real work will start tomorrow. Tonight, kind of the preface, if you will, everybody laying out their top (ph) lines. Tomorrow, there will
actually be a legislative meeting, where they will go back and forth. Republicans will try repeatedly to amend those articles of impeachment,
probably try and strip those articles of impeachment. You're probably going to see some hijinks back and forth based on kind of the partisan
dynamics of this committee going forward.
But I think what this all leads to -- and really kind of the bottom line to remember -- through the opening statements, which will last maybe three,
four hours tonight, through tomorrow, which could last 12, 13, 14 hours, I'm hearing right now, depending on how it goes, is all this leads to one
thing. And that is a House floor vote next week to impeach the president of the United States.
The expectation amongst Democrats? They have the votes for both articles of impeachment, still kind of figuring out where all their members are.
But through everything you watch over the next couple of days, this is all leading to one thing. And that is the impeachment of President Donald
Trump.
GORANI: And what about the White House strategy? I mean, once the trial starts in the Senate, obviously, the White House is going to mount a
defense. Do we expect the president to make an appearance? Or how does it work?
Because, looking back, the three president who were impeached, the four who faced impeachment proceedings, it took over a hundred days, for instance,
for Clinton and Nixon. Is that -- is it going to take that long for President Trump?
MATTINGLY: Yes, it doesn't seem that way. Look, obviously, things have moved very quickly over in the House. And I think right now -- the big
thing we know about the Senate right now is, we don't know exactly what's going to happen, right? They haven't met to actually structure this trial,
we don't know how long it's going to go, we don't know whether or not there are going to be witnesses.
What we do know and what the White House has made very clear is -- and quite a difference from what we've seen over in the House -- the president
will in fact mount a defense. He will not personally show up, but his legal team, his White House Counsel will lead a defense of the president.
When it gets over to the Senate, the House Democratic managers of the impeachment -- I think you'll see a lot of familiar faces although they
haven't named them yet -- will present the case first. And then the president and his team will have their opportunity to present their defense
or their rebuttal of that case.
The big question outstanding right now is really twofold. One, how long is the trial going to be? And in line with that is whether or not there will
be witnesses in the Senate.
I'm hearing right now that a lot of senators are saying, let's not do the witnesses thing, let's just have the presentations from both sides and then
have a final vote. But it's all still very up in the air right now -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Phil Mattingly, thanks very much.
Greta Thunberg is in Madrid for the COP25 conference, chastising world leaders for their role in climate change. That is business as usual for
the 16-year-old climate activist, but she's doing it the same day she's been named "Time Magazine"'s Person of the Year.
In typical Thunberg fashion, she gave one of her trademark fiery speeches, accusing politicians and companies of greenwashing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETA THUNBERG, CLIMATE ACTIVIST: I still believe that the biggest danger is not inaction. The real danger is when politicians and CEOs are making
it look like real action is happening when in fact almost nothing is being done, apart from clever accounting and creative P.R.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, I'll talk more about Greta's "Time Magazine" award later in the show with the magazine's international editor.
First, let's get to Arwa Damon who's in Madrid. What was the reaction when it was unveiled, when this "Time Magazine" cover and Person of the Year
award was unveiled in Madrid?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, pretty muted to a certain degree within the venue itself. There was actually, shortly
after that was announced, a protest that was being led by indigenous leaders, who were in line with exactly what Greta's message has been,
demanding more action. They were talking about an end to the exploitation of their lands, an end to the fossil fuel industry.
And this has really been the big theme when it comes to issues that Greta herself has been tackling, trying to shift the spotlight away from herself
-- although she did post on her Instagram page that she was grateful for this recognition, that it belonged to all of the youth activists who are
part of this Friday for Future movement.
But she's been trying to shift the spotlight away from herself, Hala, and on to the science, and on to the stories of the other youth activists who
are really directly feeling the impact of this climate crisis.
And when it comes to what's actually happening in COP, it's probably more appropriate to talk about what isn't happening. We do, today, have dozens
of countries that have said that they will be increasing their voluntary emissions reduction before this 2020 deadline.
[14:15:11]
But you don't have the bigger countries, the developed nations, the real polluters making anything anywhere near that commitment. And that is where
the frustration lies when it comes to the -- Greta's voice. When it comes to the voices of the other activists, and the other companies that have
already come on board as well as other cities.
They aren't seeing the same commitment from nations like the United States, like Brazil, like Saudi Arabia, like China, like India, like Russia. And
those are the countries that really need to get on board for us to see the kind of difference that we all need to be able to survive in the world as
we know it now -- Hala.
GORANI: Right. And of course, the U.S. walked away from the Paris accords, though Nancy Pelosi promised that the world can still count on the
United States in terms of tackling the climate crisis. We'll see, I think it depends a lot of politics in the country. Thanks very much, Arwa Damon.
And as I mentioned, still to come tonight, a "Time Magazine" editor explains how Greta Thunberg, this year's Person of the Year, beat out
everyone else, live in the studio. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, as we mentioned earlier, Greta Thunberg is "Time Magazine"'s Person of the Year. Her relentless activism against climate change has led
to insults from world leaders like the most powerful man in the world, U.S. President Donald Trump; the Brazilian president, Jair Bolsonaro.
She's also galvanized other young activists, though, around the world. "Time Magazine" explains why the honor belongs to Greta, saying she "has
succeeded in creating a global attitudinal shift, transforming millions of vague, middle-of-the-night anxieties into a worldwide movement calling for
urgent change. She has offered a moral clarion call to those who are willing to act, and hurled shame on those who are not."
"Time Magazine"'s international editor Dan Stewart is with me now.
DAN STEWART, INTERNATIONAL EDITOR, TIME: Hi, Hala --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: So why Greta and not, say, Nancy Pelosi, not the whistleblower on the Ukraine scandal?
STEWART: Well, we do have a piece in the magazine as well about the whistleblower. They were one of our -- the other people, the guardians
that we acknowledge.
But we really felt that 2019 was the year in which the climate crisis took center stage. And the one person we felt that had the most influence on
making sure that governments are held to account, of speaking truth to power was Greta Thunberg. And inspiring this incredible movement that, as
you said in your introduction, has brought so many people out (ph) --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Is it a bit like a Nobel Peace -- like when the Nobel Peace Prize was given to Obama, so the committee hoped that he would be the peace
president? It was more aspirational?
STEWART: No --
GORANI: Because so far, she hasn't changed policy. She's pushing for change.
[14:20:00]
STEWART: I think that's right. I mean, it's tricky with climate change, right?
GORANI: Yes.
STEWART: Because you are often measuring people by the pledges that they take.
GORANI: Yes.
STEWART: But I really do feel like the number of people that she's managed to get onto the streets, the number of people who have -- who are paying
attention to the message that she has now, you know, you've looked -- for years and years, you've had environmentalists, activists, celebrities who
are trying to clarify the message enough so that people actually stand up and governments act on it.
And I think she has done that, in many ways, because she has the voice of a child.
GORANI: Yes.
STEWART: You know?
GORANI: That was going to be my next question because --
STEWART: Right.
GORANI: -- you have megastars like Leonardo DiCaprio who have been talking about the climate and the environment for many years.
She somehow has gotten through into the public consciousness. She's' just become this household name, a little bit like Malala for girls' education -
-
STEWART: Right.
GORANI: -- she has done for climate. How do you explain it?
STEWART: Absolutely. I mean, I think she also has this tone -- we talk about this in the story a little bit -- you know, this fearless tone that
she's able to strike to speak to, you know, whether it's presidents or prime ministers, to speak at the U.N. General Assembly or at the COP25
talks today, that we saw, that she's able to speak confidently --
GORANI: Yes.
STEWART: -- and without halting (ph) this very powerful message, you know, the how dare you, right? That was the catchphrase that she --
GORANI: Yes, yes. Yes.
STEWART: -- said at the U.N. General Assembly.
GORANI: Her voice, quivering in anger --
STEWART: Right, right. With indignation. I saw her speak at Davos in January, and she spoke to a room full of -- I think Justin Trudeau was
there, Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa, Bono was there, you know. This room full of intimating, powerful people.
And she said, you know, the reason I'm here is because you people are ruining the planet that I live on, and you need to do something about it.
This is your problem, you need to fix it.
GORANI: So how is the choice made? I mean, when all -- first of all, who decides? How is the final choice made, and how do you get to that final
decision?
STEWART: So we begin our process roughly in September, the whole editorial team comes together and pitches ideas. It's a lot of exchanging debates
and that's when we, you know, talk a little bit, you know. Our Washington team will have certain ideas about who is -- has been -- has the most
influence in the year, our world team, everyone sort of pitches in a little bit and then we sort of slowly whittle down.
We try and decide what the story is we want to tell as well, you know. For us it's as much about the reporting, you know. The Greta story that we've
written has a huge amount of interviews that we've done with her over the course of the year, right from January --
GORANI: Yes, and I love the photo, by the way, on the cover.
STEWART: Thank you. Yes.
GORANI: There's something very artistic about it.
STEWART: Yes, Evgenia did that right on -- it was the day after, I think, she arrived --
GORANI: Yes.
STEWART: -- back in Europe --
GORANI: It's like an oil painting.
STEWART: -- took her to a sort of deserted beach. That's right, yes. And you know, a slightly different look, perhaps, that you've seen her before.
You know, we wanted to make -- I think, you know, to reflect the line that we've used, which is the power of youth, you know?
GORANI: And who was -- was there a close runner-up, or was this kind of the unanimous choice? How --
STEWART: Well, you know, those discussions happen always behind closed doors. I think, you know, for us, as I said, you know, this year was a
year in which climate change, it's something that "Time"'s been covering a lot. You know, we dedicated an entire issue to it. We feel like, you
know, the -- it's something that we want to dedicate a lot of coverage to, and so that was why Greta really felt like the logical choice for us.
You know, there's a lot of other issues that we're covering and I think if you pick up a copy, you'll see the other fantastic stories that we've done
--
GORANI: Lizzo's in there?
STEWART: That's right, yes. She's our entertainer of the year. We have the U.S. women's sports team as well, we talked to them about the
incredible year that they had, winning the World Cup.
GORANI: Some people on Twitter were wondering why you didn't pick Baby Yoda.
STEWART: Well, actually --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Baby Yoda as a unifying power that other public figures, fictional or non -- somebody actually posted this.
STEWART: Yes. Oh, wonderful, yes.
Well, we have Bob Iger, who's the Disney CEO, there's actually an illustration of him with Baby Yoda, you're (ph) --
GORANI: There he is.
STEWART: -- just seeing it there now, which is by Tim O'Brien, one of our --
GORANI: He's cute.
STEWART: -- regular illustrators.
Yes. We -- I think it sort of reflects a different kind of influence, perhaps, you know. But if Baby Yoda has a good year next year, then
fingers crossed for him.
GORANI: All right. Dan Stewart, the "Time" international editor. Thank you so much for joining us.
Still to come tonight, a plane at a higher risk for crashing but allowed to fly anyway. Ahead, what the U.S. government knew about the 737 Max but did
not act on. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:29]
GORANI: Now to a disturbing revelation in the U.S. about the Boeing 737 Max plane. A report says the government knew that the aircraft was at a
higher risk to crash after an accident in 2018, but it didn't keep it from flying. The model was grounded after only a second deadly crash in March.
Now, this raises the question, could lives have been saved if officials had acted sooner? In the meantime, the 737 Max will not be ready to go back in
the air any time soon. Our aviation correspondent Rene Marsh joins me now, live from Washington.
So what did the government know after that first crash that potentially they could have acted on?
RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: So, Hala, I mean, today at this hearing, it was a really bad day for Boeing,
and for the FAA. The head of the agency faced all these tough questions after this new document came to light. The document was publicly released
this morning at this hearing.
And it shows that FAA did its own internal analysis of the Boeing 737 Max, following the Lion Air crash last fall. And once it did that analysis, it
found that the plane is significantly more likely to crash than any other aircraft.
It also predicted that it would crash 15 times -- 15 more times, I should say. But that number, 15, was actually a conservative number because it
was based on this assumption that 99 out of 100 flight crews would successfully react to all of the alarms and alerts within just 10 seconds
once things went wrong with the plane's MCAS software.
But we all know that in both of these crashes, the pilot did not and could not react successfully in 10 seconds. But the bottom line is, despite this
risk assessment and these findings, the FAA did not ground the aircraft until after a second crash, and that was months after that initial crash.
GORANI: All right. Rene Marsh, thanks very much, live in Washington.
[14:27:32]
Still to come, we'll return live to Capitol Hill on another critical day for the future of Donald Trump's presidency. I'll talk with a House
Democratic lawmaker about what lies ahead. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:34]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Back to our top story, the toughest U.K. election in years, and perhaps one of the most consequential in recent
history. We're following all of the last-minute campaign as the candidates hope to come out on top, all of them. Experts say we could see a hung
parliament potentially even, that means no one party would win enough votes to secure an outright majority.
One of the parties that could disrupt the Conservative plans are Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats. They are firmly against Brexit. Scott McLean
spoke to some of her constituents in Glasgow and took a look at the new candidate running against her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMY CALLAGHAN, POLITICIAN: Jean (INAUDIBLE) you do number two. And tell me you can define.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 27, Amy Callaghan is young for political standards, but as no shortage of life
experience.
The Scottish National Party candidate in suburban Glasgow has had to fight for her own twice. At age 19, she had a cancerous lump removed from her
cheek. It came back two years later. She was treated by Britain's public health system, the NHS.
CALLAGHAN: My experience with cancer has only sparked the desire in me to make sure that it (INAUDIBLE). And now I'm standing here as a candidate
(INAUDIBLE) for the Scottish National Party, five years cancer free because of what NHS done for me.
MCLEAN: It saved your life?
CALLAGHAN: Yes. It saved my life twice.
Do you want to come with me? That's perfect.
MCLEAN: In this election though, Callaghan has another uphill battle against Liberal Democrat leader, Jo Swinson. Political heavy with the
advantage of a national profile in 12 years as the MP for East Dunbartonshire. But she's been beat once before.
CALLAGHAN: No one has got a divine right to seat here. You need to earn that right.
MCLEAN: From the outset of the campaign, 39-year-old Swinson set her sights on Number 10, boldness dwarfed only by her party central campaign
promise to cancel Brexit without a second referendum.
After a strong start in the polls, Liberal Democrats have been known a steady slide.
Katy Gordon is Swinson's longtime local campaign manager. She remembers how it felt to lose the seed in 2015 and to win it back two years later.
KATY GORDON, LIBERAL DEMOCRAT CAMPAIGN CHAIR, EAST DUNBARTONSHIRE: This time, I'd say somewhere between the two. You know, there's warm support,
there's also a lot of people fundamentally motivated by independence.
MCLEAN: Independence has transformed Scotland from reliably Labour red to SNP yellow. Conservatives have since made inroads. But Liberal Democrats
who oppose a second independence vote have felt the squeeze.
GORDON: So if you have one dividing line that's about, you know, your loyalties to do with independence or not, and then you have another
dividing line about leave or remaining Europe. And so you -- it's much harder to predict these days, I think.
MCLEAN: On the high street in Kirkintilloch, we found another dividing line when we asked --
MCLEAN (on-camera): How do you feel about Jo Swinson?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I kind of stunned with her personally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A nice person. It doesn't have to be (INAUDIBLE) in any way, shape, or form.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So 17.4 million people who voted to leave which have no voice. So, no, I want (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's not done much for the (INAUDIBLE) gather into East Dunbartonshire and (INAUDIBLE)
MCLEAN: But even seven miles West, we found kind words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's been an excellent MP for the area.
MCLEAN: But not a lot of votes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jo Swinson, she started well but some of the things she said like Article 50 revoking, I don't think she's got a good grip at
the moment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's lost control completely. I used to vote for her, but I don't anymore because -- and I think she's just come to extreme.
MCLEAN: In Scotland, there are no safe seats, not even it seems for a national party leader.
Scott McLean, CNN, Glasgow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Let's get more on all of this with Robin Oakley.
How many general elections have you covered, robin? Have you counted?
ROBIN OAKLEY, POLITICAL ANALYST: I regret to say this, this is the 14th.
GORANI: The 14th. Is this one of the most consequential, one of the most important do you think in recent memory?
OAKLEY: Yes, one of the most consequential, yes. Because it's defining our future relationship with Europe. And if Labour want to get in on the
kind of program it's got, which would be the biggest spending and taxing program since the Second World War, then that would be a transformation of
British society and it would be real change.
So, yes, it's a very consequential election. It's also a very depressing election because the two major parties have seized to be broad based
parties which can attract a wide range of people and become narrow sects addicted to particular set of policies.
GORANI: It sounds a lot like the U.S. by the way, and other countries as well.
[14:35:59]
But if you look at the latest polling, the Conservatives do are expected to get a majority of seats. And Parliament, though, it's not clear cut. I
mean, it could still be a hung parliament, then what happens?
OAKLEY: Well, we've learned that the last two, three years in British politics, not to call the outcome of anything
GORANI: That's right. We've been burned before. Yes.
OAKLEY: But, yes, they've held a lead of about 10 to 12 points through most of this campaign. The tactics have worked out for Boris Johnson and
that he -- the whole theme has been get Brexit done.
A lot of people have said it's gone on forever and ever and ever. Please, can we have an end to Brexit? So there's a sort of longing there for that
to happen.
He's managed to concentrate the leave voters, the people who want out of Europe, basically, mostly behind the Conservative Party. Particularly
after Nigel Farage's Brexit Party decided not to fight against the conservatives in their own seats.
The remain voters -- and this election is all about remain voters Brexit, the remain voters have been spread between the Labour Party, the Liberal
Democrats who rather missed an opportunity here, the Green Party (INAUDIBLE).
So the remain voters have been spread, and the Conservatives are going to benefit from having concentrated legal support. But whether Boris Johnson
can actually do what he set up to do and grab traditional Labour seats in the midlands and the north, what she needs, if he's going to have the
victory to push Brexit through, whether he can really bring those people on the side to his conservative parties, the door remains open.
GORANI: It's almost that's like another referendum light on Brexit. We'll see how it goes and you'll be with us throughout.
Thank you so much, Robin Oakley. As always, pleasure talking to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Republicans have never been so united as they are right now, ever.
(CROWD CHEERING)
The House, the Senate, we've never been this united because it's all a hoax and they understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: U.S. President Donald Trump underscoring the stark partisan divide over impeachment. We're just hours away from a crucial debate in the House
over the charges facing Mr. Trump.
Democrats say the evidence is clear and it is overwhelming that President Trump abuses power and obstructed congressional investigations. But
Republicans insist the Democrats don't have a case.
Let's get the Democratic perspective now. I'm joined by Representative Dan Kildee, holds an important leadership role as the chief deputy whip of the
House Democratic Caucus. He's from Michigan which is a very important state as well in the upcoming election and that President Trump narrowly
won in 2016.
Representative Kildee, thanks for being with us.
These impeachment proceedings, is there any risk at all that they will end up energizing the pro-Trump base that they will, in fact, not achieve what
you'd like them to achieve?
REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Well, it's possible. But I think we should be clear that our goal is not to achieve a political end. It's not to
activate or press any base. It's actually just to uphold what we think is our responsibility under the constitution.
And so I think members of Congress obviously need to be aware of public opinion. But in this particular case, any member on either side of this
question, they're just thinking about the electoral consequences of this vote, they're probably thinking the wrong thing. There are -- there are
moments when we simply have to think clearly about what our responsibility is under the constitution. Do our job and except the fact there may be
political consequences in either direction. But it's part of the responsibility we have.
GORANI: So if you set aside the impeachment proceedings, you're still -- I presume, very much focused on 2020. Your one goal for next year, and
correct me if I'm wrong, is for a Democrat to win -- to beat Donald Trump and get Donald Trump out of office.
Michigan, your state, if you look at all the polling, there's no Democratic candidate that beats Donald Trump in your state Michigan that I've seen in
the last few months.
What do you think Democrats need to do to secure your state?
KILDEE: Well, there are polls that show Democrats beating the president. There was a recent poll that was done by a Republican polling firm that
show that a little bit closer with the president having a slight margin.
But this is the case in Michigan and every election cycle, it's always close in Michigan, it always comes right down to the wire. And so I think
for a Democratic candidate, the message really has to be about those what we refer to as kitchen table economic issues. Retirement security, health
care, and cost of prescription drugs.
What we feel good about is that on every one of those major economic questions that American families face, the Democrats have a clear agenda,
we pass bills to address those issues and those bills have been blocked by the Senate Republicans and the White House.
[14:40:04]
So if the debate really focuses on those issues, I think the Democratic candidate will be fine. I think that's where the debate ultimately will
be.
GORANI: And I haven't seen any of the recent polls that show that in swing states, the Democratic candidates beat Donald Trump. I haven't seen them
all, obviously.
Michael Bloomberg, by the way, who entered the Democratic races, he doesn't think any of the democratic candidates are able to win against Donald
Trump. What do you make of a billionaire like Michael Bloomberg entering the race?
KILDEE: Well, it doesn't surprise me that one of the candidates would say the other candidates can't beat President Trump. I mean, obviously that
would be an argument that each one of them would advance. That they are the best and only choice to beat him.
But look, you know, I welcome a robust Democratic campaign. I'm not one who's been worried about the fact that we have so many candidates. The
process itself will produce, by definition, will produce the strongest Democratic candidate. And then it really becomes a battle of ideas. And
in part, it becomes a referendum on the Trump presidency.
If it's a battle of ideas, and a referendum on President Trump, I feel good about where we'll end up.
GORANI: Historically though, and you know this better than anyone or that most people. Presidents -- incumbent presidents with a strong economy,
very rarely lose, why would this be any different?
KILDEE: Well, it is the case, historically, it's also the case that presidents who are presiding over really strong economies tend to be very
popular. This is an unusual situation where even in a relatively strong economy.
Of course, we believe it's a part of continuation of the Obama economy. But even in the strong economy, this president has not been able to get
above the low to mid-40s in terms of his own job approval. That's really unusual, that they're not -- voters are basically not crediting President
Trump with the strength of this economy to the extent that normally you would see a president benefiting from the economy.
GORANI: And we're seeing all over the world, and I'm sure you saw that hot mic moment with these world leaders including Justin Trudeau appearing to
mock President Trump.
How do you think the world views the United States now since President Trump has taken office? How have things changed with regards to the U.S.
relationship with the rest of the planet and its allies?
KILDEE: Well, I don't think it's very good. And I travel to different parts of the world and speak with world leaders. And it's depressing the
extent to which the U.S. president's role as a moral leader and the world has been so severely diminished.
He tends to attack our longest and staunchest allies. He tends to align himself with dictatorial leaders like Putin or Erdogan. I mean, this is a
president that has given away America's moral authority faster than I've ever seen any political leader do.
And regardless of who wins the election, it's going to take us time to rebuild that.
GORANI: But you don't have a single -- sorry, you don't have a single Republican joining you in this impeachment effort or agreeing with you on
those point. This is 100 percent partisan effort. I mean, isn't that an issue for the Democrats here?
KILDEE: Yes. But you know what's interesting about it? I hear these questions a lot. It should be an issue for the Republicans as well. Why,
for example, would every Republican, many of whom have privately decried the behavior of this president, many of whom know that his behavior is well
outside the bounds and clearly a violation of U.S. laws and the constitution?
Why are they not putting country ahead of their loyalty to a single --
GORANI: Have Republican representatives told you in private? Have you heard in private from Republican representatives that they do not support
the president privately but publicly that they feel like they have to, to get reelected?
KILDEE: Regularly, and since the day after the election. I have heard my colleagues on the other side of the isle continuously complain about how
this president makes a mockery of the office and puts them in a terrible position.
It's only those who have left, like former Representative Charlie Dent who acknowledges openly what an embarrassment he has become. It's a real
disappointment.
So this issue of it being partisan, I'll accept the fact that Democrats are unified on this issue. But what's puzzling to me is that what the
president engaging in such egregious behavior, the evidence being so strong, why is it that the Republicans are putting partisanship, and in
this case not just partisanship to loyalty to a party, but loyalty to a single person ahead of what we believe is their responsibility to uphold
and defend the constitution of the United States. It's a serious question and it's one that ought to be posted these Republicans in far more pointed
terms.
[14:45:14]
GORANI: Representative Dan Kildee of Michigan, thanks so much for joining us on CNN International. We really appreciate your time this evening.
KILDEE: Thank you.
GORANI: Police in New Zealand are still trying to find the bodies of the people missing after the eruption of that White Island volcano.
A short time ago, police announced that the death toll had risen to eight with almost 30 more victims in local hospitals being treated for severe
burns.
CNN's Will Ripley spoke to a man who got off the island only minutes before the eruption.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Monday was a picture perfect day to visit White Island. Crystal blue skies, sunlight
bouncing off the lunar like landscape, raw, rugged, natural beauty lures thousands to this New Zealand treasure each year.
GEOFF HOPKINS, TOURIST AND TRAINED FIRST RESPONDER: Beautiful yellows and whites and crystals. But knowing just below the surface is so violent, so
hot, so explosive.
RIPLEY: The trip was Geoff Hopkins's 50th birthday gift from his daughter, Lelani (ph).
HOPKINS: We weren't in a hurry to get off the island. I'm thinking where I'm going to sit on the boat so we can get awesome shots of the island as
we leave. This is --
RIPLEY: He took this photo at 2:07 p.m.
RIPLEY (on-camera): Those dots are people who were on the crater.
HOPKINS: On the crater like on the edge of the crater. And then and four minutes later.
RIPLEY (voice-over): At 2:11, blue skies turned dark.
HOPKINS: For a split second, it was a gust devour. One or two seconds later is that -- is that menacing ash cloud started to roll over the cliff
and engulfed the island. Wow, this is serious. This is bad. And, you know, in that stage, then you think there were people stood on the island.
RIPLEY: Their tour boat turned around. Everything on the island covered in ash.
HOPKINS: And that smashed helicopter just completely gray. And we can see there's people in the water, there's people swimming off the island.
RIPLEY: They pulled 23 survivors onto the boat. It was hard to tell the students from the senior citizens.
HOPKINS: Everybody was horrific burned. Skin falling off, lots of screaming, panic screaming. Get me out of here. I'm burning, I'm burning.
RIPLEY: Hopkins is a trained first responder. He spent much of the 90- minute trip back to shore carrying for a young couple from Virginia, Lauren and Matthew Urey, on what was supposed to be their dream honeymoon.
HOPKINS: I remember I asked her name and she struggled to say it, but he said it for her. Yes, he said, she's my wife. And she would ask, how is
my husband? And he would ask, how is my wife?
RIPLEY: She fought to keep them awake, fought to keep them alive.
HOPKINS: She said, this is the worst day of my life. And I had to say, yes, it is. But you've got so much more in your life to live. When she
says, I don't think I'm going to make it, you rebuke that. You are going to make it. You are going to make it. You're strong, you're a fighter.
You're going to get through this. You've got a future.
JANET UREY, MOTHER OF BURN VICTIM MATT UREY: Ten minutes could have been life or death for them --
RIPLEY: I spoke with Matt Urey's mom, Janet. She was about to board her flight for the 29-hour journey from Pennsylvania to New Zealand.
UREY: It's absolutely soul crushing. It's my worst nightmare. But on the other hand, I'm trying to focus on the positive. They were lucky enough
they had already come down the volcano. So they were very close to the water.
RIPLEY: The couple managed to seek shelter behind a rock. They still suffered severe burns over much of their bodies.
HOPKINS: I'm still coming to terms with it.
RIPLEY: Hopkins tries not to think about what could have happened.
HOPKINS: If we hadn't got off the island, there would have been double of the victims and nobody to help. It's a day I'll never forget, never
forget.
RIPLEY: He'll also never forget the people who died and the ones still fighting to stay alive.
Will Ripley, CNN, Whakatane, New Zealand.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:36]
GORANI: It is time for our ongoing series "Innovate Africa."
Today, we head to Kenya where one company is trying to bring digital advances to industries that have long been stuck in old ways. Here's Eleni
Giokos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY MWANGI, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, DATA INTEGRATED: Data Integrated is a company that's mission is to digitize and automate payments for small to
medium-sized enterprises.
It mainly around payments. Their revenue that they are collecting and the products that they are selling to build controls around that.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The company started in 2012 and early on found a need to with the unique Kenyan mode of transport, the
Matatu.
MWANGI: Transportation in Kenya is privately owned. We call it public transport but really it is private enterprises. So you want to buy a
Matatu, you can just buy it. But then the lower states that you have to take each to an organization, society to actually manage it.
GIOKOS: Hundreds of organizations across Kenya called SACCOs, manage the daily operations of the Matatu buses. Data Integrated founder, Mary
Mwangi, saw that their business operations were far from streamlined.
MWANGI: We went to the SACCOs, the bus companies and we asked them, what are you doing? And after we understood what they were doing, then we went
ahead and digitized their processes as they were doing it.
And then after a while, then we introduce a more efficient of where we see that they could use it.
GIOKOS: Including a handheld payment device that issues daily reports via SMS, and online management system, and a tracking device similar to ride-
sharing apps.
All with the aim to take innovations in mobile money to the next level.
MWANGI: Mobile money is very big in Africa. But it does not go far enough when it comes to automating the businesses. It automates the last part of
the transaction. And then when you come in to check the operations and the management, you still find there's a lot of manual processes still going
on.
GIOKOS: One of the biggest points of pride for Data Integrated is their homegrown team, including female developers.
MWANGI: Most of these people that came to us, actually, to work with us, came in as interns, you know, they're world-class. So most of our success
is actually because of this young team that we have. Very amazing to see that's the future of Africa.
GIOKOS: Eleni Giokos, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: More news coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, lots of tourists travel to Budapest each year. And the city's collection of impressive architecture is a big draw. One of its
strangest buildings contains every major European architectural style rolled into one. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[14:55:04]
FANNI SARKADI, BUDAPEST UNDERGUIDE: So let me walk you into the beautiful Vajdahunyad Castle's main courtyard. We are going to have a look at the
most important part of it, namely the Romanesque part, the gothic part, the renaissance one, and the Baroque.
This base here is supposed to be the closure of the Romanesque part of the Vajdahunyad Castle. We are in the heart, the middle, of this amazing spot.
If we just stroll around here and have a look around, we definitely feel back in the Romanesque time, thanks to the architectural style that is
embracing the beauty.
Behind me, you can find the beautiful entrance of Jaki Chapel. If we are continuing a little bit over more, we see the main entrance and the whole
building of the baroque part. This beautiful yellow building which is the agricultural museum of today.
And more over, we can find the renaissance courtyard with the beautiful rose down in the middle. So it's used to be a spot for King Messiah's
where to go for hunting. That's the reason why even the agricultural museum likes to commemorate of that with all the horns in the first floor
of the building.
So we just walk up here to the Apostle's Tower, the highest peak of the Vajdahunyad Castle to have a view around us. And what we have found is
this beautiful, yellow colored baroque building, the biggest European agricultural museum.
If we have a closer look in it, we can seal together 12 sections that they're representing all the agricultural activities that Hungarians were
doing during those centuries.
A nice spot which to visit for the weekends, even for the locals and, of course, all the tourists, travelers, that come over to Hungary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Finally, churches all over the globe display nativity scenes this time of year. But one California church is raising eyebrows with its take
on Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.
A Methodist church near Los Angeles depicted the family as refugees separated and stuck in cages. There's Mary, Baby Jesus, Joseph there. You
see him in a separate cage.
Of course, they were refugees on the run after Jesus was born. And this might be what would happen if they try to get into the U.S. today is the
point that this Methodist Church is trying to make.
The pastor says if the image of Baby Jesus in a cage and covered in a foiled blanket sparks conversation, then that's good, that is what the
display is supposed to do.
I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
[15:00:00]
END
