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Hala Gorani Tonight
Conservative Party Increases Seats in U.K. Election; Interview with Seb Dance, Labour Party Member; McConnell Coordinating Impeachment With White House; Johnson: Voters Gave Overwhelming Mandate On Brexit; Impeachment Charges Against Trump Headed To House Floor; Robotic Ocean Cleaner; Architecture AT Spas Becomes Backdrop For Light Shows. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 13, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:19]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, we're following two major stories: history in the making for the U.K. and also in the U.S.
Just hours ago in Washington, the House Judiciary Committee approved two articles of impeachment against U.S. President Donald Trump. A vote in the
full House is expected next week. We'll get more on that in a moment.
And here in the U.K., Boris Johnson and the Conservative Party have pulled off one of the country's most dramatic electoral victories in decades,
handily winning a majority in Parliament. The prime minister now has a mandate. The big question is, what kind of prime minister will he be, what
kind of Brexit will he push for.
It is the strongest indication yet that voters are on board, by and large, with the prime minister's promise to, quote, "get Brexit done," that was
his campaign slogan.
There is a lot of Brexit fatigue, it has to be said, as well. There are some traditionally Labour seats and constituencies, Labour-held seats and
constituencies in this country that flipped and backed the Conservative Party in this particular election.
Mr. Johnson is seizing the momentum, declaring a divorce from the European Union will happen by January 31st, no ifs, no buts. With a comfortable
majority behind him, the prime minister had this message for his supporters -- and, as I mentioned, those who crossed party lines to vote Conservative:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: I say, thank you for the trust you have placed in us and in me. And we will work around the
clock to repay your trust and to deliver on your priorities, with a parliament that works for you. I urge everyone to find closure and to let
the healing begin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: With all the results in, the Conservatives now have 365 seats in the House of Commons, picking up 67 compared to when Parliament dissolved
in November.
Labour -- and this is also the story of the day -- suffered a crushing defeat. Labour, led by Jeremy Corbyn, losing 42 seats overall, the worst
election result since 1935.
The Scottish National Party made big gains, picking up 13 seats and in the process, ousting the leader of the Liberal Democrats from her seat.
A tough defeat for the Lib Dems, who lost 10 seats in Parliament. They started with a lot of momentum, this election campaign, and truly fizzled
out by the end.
Nic Robertson is outside 10 Downing Street with more on this election. And how -- what does this mean, then, for Brexit? We're looking at a Brexit
for the U.K. to exit the E.U. by January 31st, this is a pledge of the prime minister and now there seems to be very little doubt that this is
going to indeed happen.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. And, look, I think if you're sitting in Brussels at the moment or you're one of the
E.U.'s 27 other leaders, you look at the result here -- and we've heard many of them say they've called Boris Johnson, they've congratulated him.
But this is the clarity that they wanted. They gave this extension from the end of October to the end of January for the divorce part of Brexit to
be done because they believed and understood that the elections would deliver a verdict of some description, and that's what's happened.
So, yes, Boris Johnson will now be able to move ahead. He'll have the majority in parliament to get the legislation through on the Brexit deal
that he has. Not everyone's going to be happy with it, in particular his former political allies in Northern Ireland, the Democratic Unionist Party.
But he will move ahead.
Then, of course, you get into 2020's big challenge for him -- or one of the twin big challenges -- and that will be negotiating the new trading
relationship with the European Union, and that could be more fraught.
He certainly will face some who will be wanting to push for an extension for the deadline of that, which is the end of next year. If he doesn't do
that, there's a risk of sort of ending up leaving the European Union without a deal. We've been down that road before. But now he has the room
for political maneuver.
And I think, you know, his speech today was relatively short. But Monday, he announces his new cabinet. And I think from that, we may get an
indication if he tries to move more centrist, if he tries to dump, if you will, some of the right-wingers in his party that he needed on board to get
to where he is today. And then we may get a true sense of where he's going to head and the problems that he'll run into. But the challenges are big.
Scotland's another one, but the Brexit deal will be front and center for him.
GORANI: Yes, absolutely. And as I was telling our viewers, it was also a very painful defeat performance for the Labour Party. Nic Robertson at 10
Downing Street, thanks very much.
[14:05:10]
If one side, as I mentioned, is celebrating that big win, the other side must be mourning a major loss. It is the case that the Labour Party today
is probably waking up to a very painful harsh new reality. The last time they did this poorly in an election was seven years before Boris Johnson's
mother was born.
Any time your party gets blown out, people are going to look for someone to blame. And that someone is the party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who was dogged
by accusations of anti-Semitism, he alienated some moderates by declaring himself a socialist -- that perhaps didn't go his way -- but Corbyn says it
all came down to trying to find some kind of Brexit balancing act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY CORBYN, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: I did everything I possibly could to win this election. I did everything I possibly could in order to bridge
the divide between those that voted Leave and those that voted Remain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Corbyn says he'll step down next year after he helps the party find a new standard-bearer, a new leader. He says he will not contest the
next general election.
Joining me now is Labour Party member of the European Parliament Seb Dance -- member of the European Parliament for London. All right. So what --
are you satisfied with what Jeremy Corbyn said after this electoral defeat --
SEB DANCE, LABOUR PARTY MEMBER: No --
GORANI: -- he's not really blaming himself.
DANCE: Yes. I mean, not especially. I know there's all sorts of new things that we do now, so facts don't matter and you can say what you like
and whatever. But the idea that a party leader can't and shouldn't take responsibility for a defeat of this scale, I find -- I'm sorry, that's
beyond the pale. Party leader has to take responsibility for a defeat of this scale, that's how it works.
GORANI: Where did it go wrong, do you think?
DANCE: There are many things that went wrong. For a start, let's look back as long ago as two years ago, when our position on Brexit was unclear.
That went on and on and on. It took us forever to get a clearer position on Brexit. I think we did end up in the right place in the end --
GORANI: Right.
DANCE: -- but voters made their minds up in that time. Also, of course, what they could see was a leader of the opposition who couldn't make a
decision on a key issue of the day, and that has cost us dear.
Added on top of that, all of the anti-Semitism, disaster that has afflicted my party, the lack of appropriate action to perpetrators of anti-Semitism
within my party, plus the general perception of Jeremy Corbyn as a poor leader, it's not hard (ph) to see what happened.
GORANI: What needs to happen now for your party?
DANCE: Well, we need -- we need a completely new direction. We need a discussion amongst the party --
GORANI: Do you need to move to the center?
DANCE: I think yes, we need to do many things to capture where the British people are. I don't think the British people are wild advocates of Brexit,
they're certainly not wild advocates of the Conservative Party. They only went up just over one percent of the vote.
Now, that's enough, under our system, for a victory of this scale, but there's no great love out there for them. I think we should have had this
election in the bag if we had a sensible set of propositions with a credible leader. And unfortunately, we had neither of those.
GORANI: But, I mean, it looks like now Brexit is happening. Up until 48 hours ago --
DANCE: Yes.
GORANI: -- you could have, you know, hoped for maybe, I don't know, a hung parliament that would have led to a second referendum that --
DANCE: Yes.
GORANI: -- perhaps would have led to a reversal of this decision.
DANCE: Yes.
GORANI: That is not in the cards.
DANCE: No. And the difference between the two outcomes, as someone who believes passionately that Britain's place is in the European Union, the
difference between a referendum that I am certain we would have won, and the outcome that we now have, is so massive, it breaks my heart. But
that's where we are, that's how it goes.
GORANI: Two years ago, a picture of you went viral in the European Parliament. Nigel Farage was talking about Donald Trump's Muslim ban, I
believe --
DANCE: Yes.
GORANI: -- and you held up this piece of paper -- and for effect, this is video -- pointed at him that read, "He's lying to you." Do you believe the
people who pushed Brexit were liars?
DANCE: Absolutely. I absolutely do. I think --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Do you believe, then, Boris Johnson is a liar?
DANCE: Yes. I -- I -- but I'm backed up by the opinion of most British people who, when asked if he's trustworthy, does he lie, they say yes. I
mean, that's the tragedy of all of this, is that we've ended up with a prime minister who is known for being untrustworthy, who people don't think
is someone whose word they can take at face value. And yet they preferred him to Jeremy Corbyn.
GORANI: But Seb Dance, what you're saying is that the British electorate doesn't care.
DANCE: No, not at all. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying they had - -
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: That they're electing a man they know to be untruthful?
DANCE: -- no, no, no, no, no. No. They had a terrible, terrible choice at this election. And the reality of this is, people -- I don't think
there is a majority for Brexit, but they preferred rather not to vote for Jeremy Corbyn than they did to vote for a party, the Labour Party, that was
offering a referendum and a way out of it. The categories, the hierarchies, if you like, of people's concerns meant that they put keeping
Jeremy Corbyn out of Number 10 above stopping Brexit.
GORANI: You're a member of the European Parliament.
DANCE: Yes.
GORANI: I mean, this is therefore your political career is ending with the decision to exit --
DANCE: Well, this chapter is ending, yes.
GORANI: This chapter, not your whole career. I'm sorry, but --
[14:10:00]
DANCE: I'm a little bit young for --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: -- but -- but where do -- of course, yes. But what do you -- do you remain a Labour Party member in the sense that you believe in that
party's project and the direction --
DANCE: Of course.
GORANI: -- it's going in?
DANCE: Oh my goodness, may -- yes --
GORANI: Despite the fact that it's Jeremy Corbyn who's still leading it?
DANCE: I mean --
GORANI: He's saying he won't contest the next general election.
DANCE: Yes.
GORANI: -- but he's not stepping down, he's not --
DANCE: No.
GORANI: -- falling on his sword right away.
DANCE: No, he's not accepted any responsibility and blamed, you know, everything under the sun.
The reality, of course, is that I would have preferred a Labour government under any circumstances, even one led by Jeremy Corbyn --
GORANI: Yes.
DANCE: -- that I'm very clear about. However, that is not the majority preference of the British people, I accept that. But the Labour Party is
standing as a party of reducing inequality in our society and tackling the key problems, the barriers to getting a better life that people face.
But I'm sorry, Brexit will do the utter opposite of advancing people's options and opportunities in this world, and that is a tragedy. That's
what the Labour Party has to make the case for. And we never did, we never had a credible case as to how people's lives could get better.
GORANI: Seb Dance, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
Well, from U.K. politics to U.S. politics. While Boris Johnson is riding high, his ally in the White House is now just one vote away from being
impeached. The House Judiciary Committee approved two articles of impeachment against Donald Trump today. The vote was swift, strictly along
party lines, no defections.
Today's session was in stark contrast to the marathon debate that ended last night after 14 hours, with this chaotic scene. Democrats say they
wanted the historic vote to take place in the light of day, so they pushed it to this morning over the protests of Republicans.
The stage is now set for the full House to vote on impeachment next week. Listen to the Democratic House Judiciary Committee chairman about the way
forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): Today is a solemn and sad day. For the third time in a little over a century and a half, the House Judiciary Committee
has voted articles of impeachment against the president for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The House will act expeditiously. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: President Trump spoke a short time ago, saying the Democrats have made absolute fools out of themselves. He predicts their almost certain
impeachment of him will come back to bite them, not him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a scam, it's something that shouldn't be allowed and it's a very bad thing for our country. And
you're trivializing impeachment. And I tell you what, someday there'll be a Democrat president and there'll be a Republican House and I suspect
they're going to remember it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Phil Mattingly joins us now, live from Capitol Hill. What are the next steps, Phil?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Hala, I think lawmakers are probably going to take the weekend to take a break from (ph)
themselves after the 14-hour marathon and the vote this morning. But here's kind of the important tick-tock of how this is going to happen.
On Tuesday, a committee will meet to essentially set the rules of play for the House floor debate, how long people are going to be able to talk on
each side, how the debate will be structured, who from the Democratic and Republican Party will be speaking during that debate.
On Wednesday, they will be teed up, that they will have the votes on the two articles of impeachment. The -- with those articles of impeachment,
the expectation, this is not going to be all that different from what you've seen over the course of the last couple of weeks and in the
committee votes this morning, where you have Republicans very much opposed, completely unified in support of President Trump, and Democrats making
clear that they believe he both abused his power and obstructed Congress.
One of the key things we're going to be keeping an eye on is not every Democrat has come out in support of those articles of impeachment,
particularly some of those frontline Democrats who maybe come from districts that President Trump won in 2016.
That said, Democratic leadership is very confident they have the votes for this, and that means, Hala, that by the end of Wednesday at least, as
things are currently set, President Donald Trump will be the third president in U.S. history to be impeached by the House.
GORANI: All right. Phil Mattingly, historic times. Thanks so much.
As the Senate gets ready to put Mr. Trump on trial, Republican leader Mitch McConnell made some stunning remarks that call into question his ability to
be an impartial juror as required by the Constitution. Let's bring in CNN political commentator David Swerdlick. He's an assistant editor at the
Washington Post.
David, I want our viewers to hear what Mitch McConnell had to say about his party's cooperation with the White House with regards to this Senate --
upcoming Senate trial. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-SC: Everything I do during this, I'm coordinating with White House Counsel. We'll be working through this process, hopefully
in a fairly short period of time, in total coordination with the White House Counsel's office and the people who are representing the president.
I'm going to coordinate with the president's lawyers. So there won't be any difference between us on how to do this. I'm going to take my cues
from the president's lawyers --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, David, this is certainly a surprising thing for the Senate majority leader to say. It isn't --
[14:15:04]
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
GORANI: -- you know, meant to be another branch of government, not a branch of government that is supposed to work in lockstep and in such close
coordination with the executive. "There will be no difference," Mitch McConnell said, "between the president's position and our position and how
to handle this." What do you make of that?
SWERDLICK: Yes. Good afternoon, Hala. I do think it is startling to hear the majority leader say that out loud. Almost everybody observing this
recognizes that the president will not be convicted and removed by the Republican-controlled Senate, and I don't think most people would be
surprised that Senate leadership, including Majority Leader McConnell, would be in communication with the White House.
But for him to come out and say that he is essentially in lockstep with the White House Counsel, and that he's singing from the same sheet of music --
I'm paraphrasing of course -- as the White House on this issue, does call into question, as you say, how this is supposed to go.
Congress is a separate but equal branch of government. The Senate is half of that separate but equal branch. McConnell is the leader of that branch
and he's basically saying that the Senate, which tries on the article of impeachment -- reminder to our viewers, impeachment is like an indictment
and then the Senate has a trial on those indicted charges -- he's essentially saying that the jury is working with defense counsel in this
case.
And we'll see how that plays out as we go for the impeachment vote in the House and then the trial in the Senate.
GORANI: Right. And it's going to be interesting to see what form that trial takes. Because the president is saying --
SWERDLICK: Right.
GORANI: -- he doesn't mind a long process. Senate Republicans seem to think, no, let's not give any opportunity for any sort of, you know, drama
or unexpected development to kind of make news headlines, we want this to be swift because they anticipate, obviously, an acquittal. What do you
expect is going to happen?
SWERDLICK: Well, it's hard to predict because if the House votes to impeach, as they're expected to next week, and then potentially a break for
the holidays, and then the Senate trial takes place in January, a lot can happen in the intervening weeks behind the scenes especially if, as we were
just saying, McConnell and the White House are talking to each other.
This would be one time, Hala, where I kind of see what President Trump is saying. If this is a short -- let's say two-week -- trial, as some of the
reporting suggests, then I actually think that's basically a win for the Democrats in the House and a win for Speaker Pelosi.
Even though the Senate is not going to vote to remove the president, the House will have made its point, impeached the president and then the Senate
trial, if it's just a short one- or two-week trial, is just sort of a pro forma thing with a lot more talking, a lot more grandstanding on both
sides, and then moving on to 2020 and an election year.
If it's longer, that would be the thing that I think the White House wants to do, which is to relitigate all the facts, bring in their own witnesses,
call into question Vice President Biden, call into question his son, Hunter Biden, and really nitpick through everything that's transpired politically
over the last three years.
in terms of the House Democrats -- or rather the congressional Democrats -- trying to look for impeachable offenses or impeachable conduct against
President Trump.
GORANI: But that would bleed into the primaries. I mean, it would have major --
SWERDLICK: Right.
GORANI: -- overlap with, you know, the electoral campaign, the presidential campaign.
SWERDLICK: It would, but that wouldn't really hurt Republicans, right? It's the Democrats that are having a presidential primary, and two of the
four leading Democratic candidates, Senator Sanders and Senator Warren, are members of the Senate. They would have to be present in Washington for the
Senate trial, and not out on the campaign trail in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina.
If they're off the trail for, let's say, two weeks, I don't think that hurts them too much. If they're off the trail for -- let's just
hypothetically say -- a month, that's a lot of time for their other rivals like Mayor Buttigieg, to gain ground on them. And Vice President Biden,
who is a subject of this hearing but he's not someone in the Senate any longer, you have a situation where that gives some of the other candidates
potentially a campaigning advantage.
GORANI: All right. David Swerdlick, thanks so much for joining us.
SWERDLICK: Thanks, Hala.
GORANI: Still to come tonight, we'll look at another winner in the British election? The side that could soon be saying, we don't want to be in the
United Kingdom any more.
[14:19:27]
Plus, investors and the markets are reacting to this election. What might this mean for the post-Brexit economy? That is still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, leaders around the world were closely watching the British election results, and congratulations for Boris Johnson have been pouring
in, including from a politician who Johnson is often compared to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want to congratulate Boris Johnson on a terrific victory. I think that might be a harbinger for what's to come in our country, it was
last time. I'm sure people will be thrilled to hear that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Ireland's prime minister says he's glad that it was a decisive outcome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEO VARADKAR, PRIME MINISTER OF IRELAND: Well, I'm relieved for my country and I'm also relieved for the U.K. We've really had deadlock and gridlock
for two or three years now, that is now going to pass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Brussels was keeping a close eye, obviously, on the U.K. results as the European Union anxiously awaits the next steps on Brexit.
The E.U. Commission president says it's the beginning of an excellent future relationship with the U.K. And the German chancellor, Angela
Merkel, also acknowledged that Brexit will now happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): We will have a competitor on our doorstep now, a country that is no longer a member of the
single market.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The Scottish National Party, led by Nicola Sturgeon, is the other big winner in this election. The SNP took 48 out of the 59 seats up for
grabs, 13 more than in the last election. She was delighted. Nicola Sturgeon's campaign was focused on demands for a second referendum on
Scottish independence, and she says the country send a clear message for that.
Scott McLean is in Edinburgh with the very latest. And, Scott, in order for this referendum to happen, it needs approval from Westminster, not
likely to come from Boris Johnson. So what is the likelihood that we will see a second referendum in Scotland?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Hala. So there's a lot of political talk today in Scotland. Obviously, Nicola Sturgeon is talking
about this political mandate that she's won. She won 45 percent of the popular vote. And while she concedes that not every vote for the SNP is a
vote for Scottish independence, she does say that is is enough to at least justify a second poll (ph). Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLA STURGEON, LEADER, SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY: Westminster has ignored people in Scotland for more than three years. Last night, the people of
Scotland said, enough. It is time for Boris Johnson to start listening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLEAN: Now, Nicola Sturgeon actually spoke with Prime Minister Boris Johnson today, where she told him that, look, the results of this election
are a mandate to have a second referendum. And Boris Johnson reiterated to her that he's not interested in having one.
Westminster, as you pointed out, Hala, correctly, would need to vote and to sign off on any potential future Scottish independence referendum. At this
point, that is looking pretty likely -- or pretty unlikely, I should say, Scottish National Party today said, well, they're not saying what they'll
do in the event that they don't get that sign-off, other than they'll cross that bridge when they get there.
GORANI: All right. And another big defeat was Jo Swinson's Lib Dems, the Liberal Democratic Party. They really underperformed and Jo Swinson
herself, who's only been leader of the Lib Dems for a few months, actually lost her seat in Scotland, Scott. What happened there? What went wrong
for her?
MCLEAN: Yes. Yes. The expectations for the Liberal Democrats could not have been higher in this election campaign. In fact, you'll remember that
Jo Swinson came right out of the gate, declaring that she was running to be prime minister, despite having a seat count in the teens. Jo Swinson ended
up losing her suburban Glasgow seat by 149 votes. She was then forced to resign the leadership of her party.
What might have contributed to her undoing was this policy her party held on Brexit, promising to cancel it without a second referendum. Her
opponent in East Dunbartonshire, the constituency that she was running in, called that policy undemocratic. And today, Swinson herself conceded that
clearly, the policy hadn't worked out, it hadn't resonated but that she did not regret it.
I also spoke with her 27-year-old opponent, Amy Callaghan. She is a two- time cancer survivor who didn't have the advantage of national name recognition, but she did certainly have the advantage of being able to
knock on doors, day-in, day-out since the beginning of the campaign.
She said that she sympathized with Swinson on a personal level, as a woman in politics, but they had plenty of differences on policy. I also asked
her about her reaction to the video of Nicola Sturgeon celebrating the seat of East Dunbartonshire going to the Scottish National Party. She's doing
sort of the happy dance. Amy Callaghan called that just incredible, and she said that watching it actually made her quite emotional -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Yes, when that video came out yesterday, people were - - I mean, there were several takes. People were saying, why is she celebrating Jo Swinson's defeat? She wasn't presumably celebrating her
defeat, she was celebrating the SNP victory in that seat. Thanks very much, Scott McLean.
Still to come tonight, the U.S. president calls it an amazing deal with China. But how are farmers and financial markets responding to this
reported progress in the trade war?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:20]
GORANI: Back to our top story this hour. A remarkable victory for the Conservatives in the U.K. election. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is now
claiming a mandate to push his version of Brexit forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I'm proud to say that members of our new one nation government a people's government. We'll set out from
constituencies that never returned a Conservative M.P. for a hundred years.
And yes, they will have an overwhelming mandate from this election to get Brexit don and we will honor that mandate by January the 31st.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The prime minister received this congratulations from the U.S. president. Donald Trump says he and Mr. Johnson are now quote, "Free to
strike a massive new trade deal for their countries."
Investors are reacting to the Conservative's victory. The FTSE rose more than a percent. The pound shot up to its highest level since May 2018 on
use of these results. The Conservative majority in Parliament removes some of the uncertainties surrounding Brexit.
Joining me now is Peter Goodman, European economics correspondent for the New York Times. Peter, thanks for being with us.
PETER GOODMAN, THANK YOU: Thank you.
GORANI: So markets were never fans of Brexit, but at least now they can see a clear path forward and that's something.
GOODMAN: Yes. I mean, the cliche and there's truth to it is that businesses just can't stand uncertainty, they don't know what to do. They
have to sit on investment, they have to defer hiring.
So now they, at least, know the rules, the road going forward to a degree. That's a little bit overblown, because if you talk to economists and if you
talk to business leaders candidly, they will tell you there is no scenario where the U.K. ends up with a better deal than it had before as part of the
European single market.
So, you know, there's going to be some damage to the economy. The markets were just getting tired of not being able to calculate it, wondering if
Brexiternity was our faith.
GORANI: But also, we don't know what the future trade deal will look like. I mean, we just know what the terms of the divorce will look like
potentially.
GOODMAN: Trade deals are hard to do. And they take years and no one believes that Boris Johnson will be able to pull off negotiating a fall
trade deal with the European Union by the end of the year.
GORANI: Or with the U.S. even.
GOODMAN: Well, it's impossible to imagine that the U.K., which doesn't even have the capacity right now to negotiate trade deals because it hasn't
had to do that since the 70s. It's been part of the European Union, it's relied on that confidence as part of the European Union.
How will it be able to pull that off at the same time? That's going to be a very difficult one.
The focus will clearly be on Europe because that's where Britain sends almost half of its export and the stakes are really high. Just that deal
alone, nobody believes it gets done by the end of next year which means that Boris Johnson's either going to have to go back on its promise not to
seek an extension or we're going to be right back where we've been now for a couple of years talking about the so-called cliff edge, where the 2020
deadline arrives.
[14:35:13]
GORANI: But as you know, Brexit supporters they say it's in the interest of the E.U. to strike a quick deal. Those who support Brexit also will
say, look at Donald Trump, he's sending signals, that he's ready to put Britain at the beginning of the queue, not at the back of the queue, as
Barack Obama once said on trade.
So they're very, very bullish on the prospect of a quick trade agreement with these different kinds of --
GOODMAN: I mean, there are clearly some interest in Europe that will want a deal. I mean, if you're a German auto manufacturer and you sell a lot of
cars, and you saw a lot of cars in the U.K., you'd like a deal.
But there are bigger interest than that. And -- I mean, the E.U. has managed to hold together for these three and a half years of torturous
negotiations.
They've given very little ground, and they clearly view their core strength in the global economy as having a rules-based system. They're going to
want to defend that.
GORANI: Yes. I wonder, was there surprise in the business the community that the country -- this was kind of a referendum 2.0, it's a referendum
light, right?
GOODMAN: Right.
GORANI: It was -- if a majority of people in a significant way in this country had decided they just do not want a hard Brexit, they would have
voted differently and tactically, right?
GOODMAN: Well --
GORANI: If there is sense in the business community that this is -- that this was a surprising result?
GOODMAN: I mean, I think people are surprised by how empathic the result is.
GORANI: Because the economy in this country has already suffered from Brexit.
GOODMAN: Yes, that's right.
GORANI: It's stalled foreign direct investment is down, businesses have moved up, jobs have moved out.
GOODMAN: I mean, investments been weak. There's no question. I mean, Britain increasing, they look like the sort of sick man of Europe. And
there is a feeling of, let's get on with this and move forward.
But, you know, there's a lot of other factors going on here too. Jeremy Corbyn, the head of the Labour Party extremely unpopular, wealthy people,
feared, especially these wealth taxes.
Business itself feared the nationalization of the industry. And so, you know, you think about the dynamic in the U.S. for instance, we have
Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders pressing for wealth taxes, this stuff holds popularity and a lot of these sort of left-wing measures were fairly
popular with party electorate Britain.
But Corbyn straight into the territory where -- he became seen as anti- business. Like he could actually damage the economy by going ahead and, you know, pulling nationalization of the realm network out of the playbook.
So, you know, if you look, for instance, at what the British pound is doing, the British pound has dropped every time it's looked like we're
going to have a hard Brexit. This time, the pound goes up.
GORANI: Because it's not Corbyn.
GOODMAN: Because -- that's certainly part of it because it's not Corbyn.
GORANI: Yes. The pound at 135 just about. So it's up -- I think it went up about 2.5 percent yesterday --
GOODMAN: Yes.
GORANI: -- on the news. So what's ahead now? A couple more years of negotiations of us covering these --
GOODMAN: This is -- this is not over.
GORANI: We're going to be sitting at Parliament every few days.
GOODMAN: I hope --
GORANI: And in the rain?
GOODMAN: Yes. I do hope -- we will certainly have a lot to talk about. This is not going away. This is the next phase. This is the phase where
we figure out what kind of trade deal does Boris Johnson wants.
GORANI: But at least we know this is happening.
GOODMAN: It's happening, yes.
GORANI: So that's something. We at least know that.
GOODMAN: I mean, it's something that we know. It also means almost certainly diminished living standards, less economic growth, and as we get
into the nitty-gritty of the trade deal. I mean, the Labour position didn't fly with the public, in part, because it was so incoherent. You
know, they said, well, we're going to renegotiate our own deal, try to have to second referendum.
GORANI: And then not necessarily support it.
GOODMAN: But this idea that we shouldn't dilute labor standards, and environmental standards, and try to sort of deregulate Britain into the
future, that still has some currency with people. And that will definitely pop up and be a tension in the negotiations.
Peter Goodman, thanks so much, as always. Pleasure having you on.
GOODMAN: Thank you.
GORANI: Back now to Washington for our other top story.
After weeks of hearings and months of investigation, President Trump appears almost certain to be impeached in just days. The full house of
representatives is expected to take up two charges next Wednesday that were formally approved by the House Committee today.
Mr. Trump is accused of abusing his power and obstructing Congress. He continues to deny any wrongdoing, calling the process a scam.
I spoke with a democratic lawmaker who'll be voting on Mr. Trump's impeachment. I began by asking Ro Khanna how he will vote and what will
take place over the next few days.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, I will vote to impeach the president next week when the House convenes. It's very sad. This president has abused
his office by pressuring a foreign leader to investigate an American citizen, his political rival. And we simply can't tolerate that in this
country. And he has continued to obstruct justice and also defy Congress by not being transparent with either Congress or the American people.
[14:40:15]
GORANI: But you don't have a single Republican congressperson siding with you on this. Why?
KHANNA: Unfortunately, the president has a great loyalty of the Republican Party. I mean, Mitch McConnell and the Senate has said he's going to
coordinate with the president in terms of what trial to have. And the Republicans in the House have been locked step behind the president,
putting party politics over the constitution.
My hope is there will be some independent minded senators who will do what the duty of the oath of office requires so that we will have a majority of
the American people who are for impeachment, a majority of Congress who are for impeachment. And, hopefully, a majority of the senate after the trial
who are for impeachment.
GORANI: Well, you need a super majority and that is very, very unlikely to happen in the Senate. What will this achieve? I mean, the president most
likely will be impeached next week, but not removed from office. What will this achieve ultimately?
KHANNA: It will be standing up for our constitutional democracy. It will send a message to every future president that if you try to violate the
constitution, if you badger a foreign leader to investigate your political rival, if you compromise our national security by withholding aid for
political considerations, then you will face impeachment.
Only four American presidents have felt -- have faced that prospect in the country. Most people who get elected president don't want to be impeached.
And so this is going to be a clear message to people in the future that executive overreach and abuse of power will not be tolerated.
But if you believe what happened with the Ukrainian president was in abuse of power, it seems to not at all be resonating with the president.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, came back from Ukraine and that the president called him and that
Rudy Giuliani assured him that he'd found more dirt on his political rival, Joe Biden. So this exercise in the House, does it seem to have had any
impact? Do you think it was fruitless or pointless?
KHANNA: It's very sad. It doesn't seem to have had any impact on the president who continues to engage in this egregious behavior. And that is
because the Republicans in the House have been lockstep with the president and Mitch McConnell has been lockstep with the president to cover up any of
the president's actions.
But it isn't fruitless because the American people have grown tired of this. They have grown tired of the president's constant abuse of his
office. He has lost support dramatically amongst independence. And I believe that people will hold him accountable, the voters will hold him
accountable.
GORANI: Just a question on the U.K. election before we get to the topic of Afghanistan. Joe Biden who's the front runner in the democratic field
right now, essentially seized on the results and Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour Party leader's terrible defeat yesterday, saying, look what happens when
Labour moves so, so far to the left. Essentially saying, you know, you got to pick me and not somebody to the left of me like Bernie Sanders or
Elizabeth Warren. Do you agree with his take?
KHANNA: I don't. First of all, there was a totally different context. As you know, in Britain's election, it was about Brexit as much as it was a
choice between the Tories and Labour.
The real lesson should be that when you see deindustrialization, when you see working families being left behind in economic opportunity, then you
will see a rise of populism that questions international institutions and a globalization.
And the challenge for us is the United States enter the world is to extend the technology revolution and jobs in places that have been left behind and
to make it work for working families.
GORANI: Who do you endorse for president?
KHANNA: Well, I'm a culture for Bernie Sanders and he's doing very well, actually, in the Midwest states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio.
Of course, you know, he's not where labor is. I mean, many people would say Bernie Sanders is probably a centrist compared to European politics.
GORANI: Well, he sure is. I would argue the conservatives are probably to the left of many Democrats on social issues like Medicare and the public
healthcare service.
Afghanistan, so the Washington Post published the Afghanistan papers revealing that there was an effort to mislead or to conceal at least some
of what was going wrong in this America's longest war abroad. What do you think should be the consequence of that?
KHANNA: It was a bombshell report. The Afghan papers are going to be like the Pentagon papers where in Vietnam the reports suggested that for decades
American senior military officials and civilian leaders have misled the American public that they've known all along that this war was not
winnable, and yet, they were not leveling with the American public.
[14:45:13]
I mean, there is a memo there from Donald Rumsfeld saying, I don't know who the enemy is in Afghanistan. So we ought to have hearings in Congress that
call these people to account, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and others and understand why they didn't level with the American public and we need to get out of
Afghanistan.
GORANI: Ro Khanna, thanks very much for joining us. Appreciate it.
KHANNA: Thank you very much.
GORANI: All right. The California representative, Ro Khanna.
Climate activists are using speeches, civil disobedience and even some shaming tactics to prod world leaders into action.
Swedish teenager, Greta Thunberg, is now the face of that movement as the COP 25 conference wrapped up in Madrid. She tweeted, if anyone thinks that
what I and the science are saying is advocating for a political view, and that says more about that person than about me.
Thunberg became the target of a bullying tweet from the American president after she was named Time Magazine person of the year.
And now, the former U.S. first lady, Michelle Obama, encouraged Thunberg to stay strong. She tweeted, "Don't let anyone dim your light. Like the
girls I've met in Vietnam and all over the world, you have so much to offer us all. Ignore the doubters and know that millions of people are cheering
you on.
Still to come tonight. Can a swimming robot help clean up our oceans? We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, huge swaths of the earth's oceans have become dumping grounds for the world's trash. But we found a pair of engineers who are
using robotics to help change all that. They created a trash-eating robot called BluePhin and they show us how it works.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Irfan Vakkayil lives in the UAE and called the eco bug early. But he wasn't until he met his friend, Anand Parambil that
inspiration blossomed.
Conventional corporate careers awaited these two friends. Until a passion for the environment and a swimming robot hungry for trash took them on an
altogether different course.
IRFAN VAKKAYIL, CO-FOUNDER, BLUEPHIN TECHNOLOGIES: He's a geek, and yes, he's very intelligent, no question about it. And the best thing about
image that if there is a problem, he doesn't rush until he finds a solution and he implements that solution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The friends are working together on a prototype that tackle plastic in our waters. After hours of hard work, drive and passion,
this is the result, a water robot called BluePhin. BluePhin is designed to suck in waste from open waters.
VAKKAYIL: There is so much to do there in the oceans and in the rivers which human beings can't do. So we need smart robots and that's what we
are trying to implement.
[14:50:04]
Irfan and Anand are trying to equip BluePhin with the equivalent of human senses like vision and decision-making to locate different types of waste
in the water.
ANAND PARAMBIL, CO-FOUNDER, BLUEPHIN TECHNOLOGIES: The main technology of BluePhin is the combination of robotics and the artificial intelligence.
So when we combine together, we got like wonderful result.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: BluePhin is still in the development stage. Today, he's on a test run.
VAKKAYIL: We are trying to own the system remotely so that it can -- it can back again and it can then swim and pick up the trash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no doubt it will take time for BluePhin to find its rhythm and make a noticeable impact on our polluted waters.
VAKKAYIL: Our dream is to live in a little clean planet and that's what we are doing with BluePhin, and that's what we want to achieve.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it is clear to see that BluePhin is powered by friendship, vision, and passion.
VAKKAYIL: No. I'm not going to give up until there is no litter left in the oceans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Budapest is known for its thermal baths which are visited by millions of people every year. Several of the bath has actually look like
palaces, but were built for ordinary citizens.
It is built for ordinary citizens as Neil Curry reports, after dark, the architecture becomes a backdrop for other activities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEIL CURRY, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: This is how the locals alike enjoy the stress mounting waters of Budapest's thermal spas. They continue the
traditions spanning centuries of steaming. Romans and Ottoman Turks bathe here and many of the bathhouse buildings are in themselves architectural
gems.
SZILVIA CZINEGA, BUDAPEST SPAS: Szechenyi baths over 100 years. It was built in the 1913. Until today, it's one of the biggest baths complex in
Europe.
And a lot of people ask me, which king or queen was living here in this place? Because it looks like amazing place.
And I told them, now, it was built for the common people, for the Hungry, for the Budapest people.
If you ask me, why is Budapest is so unique from other country, for other capital city in Europe? I will tell you that, OK, every country and city,
has a beautiful gastronomy and culture so on so on. But what we just -- we have is so many history (INAUDIBLE).
CURRY: As dusk yields to darkness, the architecture provides a canvas for a new palate. Colorful shapes and patterns dance across the structures as
the younger clientele defies the chilly evening air and waves into the warmth of the waters.
TAMAS UHRIN, SPARTY: The incredible architecture. We try to create an environment where we sort of give some extra to this incredible castle-like
feeling with all the lightning and with the props that we use to make it something incredibly unique that you can't actually find anywhere else.
We have a couple of deejays playing every night. We use a lot of lasers, sort of a circus troop who comes and (INAUDIBLE) to make it even more
spectacular. So it's a bit of like a marquee sensory experience, not just a music party.
A lot of people see they go to castle and then they come in and they just completely blown away by the visuals they find here. A lot of happy people
from all around the world and just the experience that you can only have here in Budapest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come tonight, the perky side of the election, why Boris Johnson was sharing the stage with several costume characters last night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:49]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: -- thank my fellow candidates in all their glory. Lord Buckethead and others, Elmo and others. Forgive me
if I -- if I don't -- if I don't identify them all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, this is a particularity of British politics. Boris Johnson accepting victory in his constituency by acknowledging some unusual fellow
candidates. He had to defeat Elmo, the puppet, Lord Buckethead, and even someone named Count Binface. In addition to candidates wearing more
traditional attire.
Andin case you were wondering, Elmo got eight votes. Lord Buckethead is the member of the official Monster Raving Loony Party, which has been
lurking in British politics since 1982. Among their campaign pledges, all socks will be sold in packs of three as a precaution against losing one.
And they want to change the clocks every week. So Mondays are a little shorter and weekends are a little longer. I'd vote for that. Who
wouldn't?
Thanks for watching. Stay with CNN. If it's your weekend, have a great one. I'm Hala Gorani. "Quest Means Business" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
