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Thousands Released as Result of Bipartisan First Step Act; Interview with Author Bryan Stevenson on Criminal Justice System; Rescue Workers Pull Child from Rubble in Syria; 2 Carnival Cruise Ships Crash in Mexico, at Least 6 Injured; President In Florida After Signing Spending Bill; Biden, Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) Holding Events In Iowa Today; Interview with Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH); WA State Lawmaker Accused Of Domestic Terrorism. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 21, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello on this Saturday. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Some very big things are certain this weekend in Washington, some very big things are not.

First, no government shutdown, the House, Senate and the White House managed to agree on enough to put a spending bill in front of the president and he signed. So a possible government shutdown averted.

Now, less certain part, impeachment, as of right now, Saturday afternoon, the speaker of the House still has not handed over the articles of impeachment to the place that deals with them next, the U.S. Senate. That's despite the historic impeachment vote in the House on Wednesday. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is delaying this necessary next step saying she needs more information on how this Senate, part of the process will go down.

The freshly impeached president, for his, is in Florida where he'll spend the holidays. And one bit of business he to on Friday accepting the House's invitation to deliver a State of the Union Address. That is now set for the first week of February. One more uncertainty, whether that speech will happen before, after or during a presidential impeachment trial in the Senate.

Let's get to West Palm Beach, Florida not far from the president's resort, not far from the president's resort, Mar-a-Lago. And our Kristen Holmes is there.

Kristen, we don't say this very often, but the president's Twitter feed today is strangely quiet. What is on the president's agenda this weekend?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, the rest of the weekend looks anything like what we saw today, he spent the entire day at the international golf course. And then just about two hours, he's going to be speaking to the turning point USA Action Summit. Now this is students that will be a friendly audience, just to give you an idea of other people who have spoken already this weekend. We're talking about Rudy Giuliani, Sean Hannity, Don Jr., so a supportive crowd.

But as for the rest of the weekend and the rest of the two weeks, I spoke to someone close to the White House who says that White House aides are hoping he'll spend that time preparing for that impending Senate trial.

And I have o to note there is a little bit of concern among his aides. They are putting together a plan for the trial but they are concerned that the longer he's down here at Mar-a-Lago, the more access he'll have to outside influence. You have to keep this in mind. These members, a lot of them at Mar-a-Lago are his friends. These guests are his friends. He has often run by them things that he's going through, including the Mueller report. He mocked Jeff Sessions there.

So this is a real concern of theirs that they might steer him in a different direction than the White House is hoping that President Trump will go.

CABRERA: And, Kristen, the president this week, besides being impeached by the House, is getting pushback from conservatives as well. A Super PAC was formed by some notable Republicans aimed at stopping President Trump's re-election. We saw that op-ed come out in that leading Christian magazine, again, calling for the president's removal.

And I want to read you this. This is an op-ed today in The Washington Post by former Republican Senator Jeff Flake. He writes, if there ever was awe time to put country over party, it is now. And by putting country over party, you might just save the grand old party before it's too late.

Are White House officials showing any sign of feeling this pressure?

HOLMES: Ana, they're really not right now. You have to keep this in mind. The White House and President Trump, the administration, really sectioned off a lot of these people and then goes on the attack. Jeff Flake is somebody who President Trump has attacked time and time again particularly when he held office. So this is not going to be something the White House really dwells on or feels pressure on given the fact that they can just say he was a never-Trumper.

And it's going to be the same with the Super PAC that was formed. He believes that all of those are never-Trumpers. So you can really get that out there.

Where you're going to start seeing the pressure is with these certain senators that are actually sitting senators in office right now, if they start to ask questions, I'm talking about the Mitt Romneys, the Ben Sasses, these group of people who they're not quite sure are 100 percent on the president's team. Now, we have seen a lot of unity. I want to stress that both the Republicans in the Senate and in the House there. But that's where you're going to start seeing that pressure is from the ones that they're not quite sure that they're onboard with President Trump.

CABRERA: Okay. Kristen Holmes for us, thank you very much.

I want to bring in Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio. He voted to impeach the president this week.

Congressman, you actually challenged Pelosi for the speakership but now you are praising her and how she's handled this impeachment vote. I want to read a quote from Politico this week in which it quotes you as saying, Nancy Pelosi is the absolute best politician that the Democratic Party has seen since Lyndon Johnson, in my opinion. It goes on to say when asked if he could have done what Pelosi did, if he were Democratic leader, Ryan added, probably not. She's literally in a class by herself.

Why do you say that?

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): Just watching her operate over the last few weeks and months, I think the whole impeachment thing has given the country an opportunity to really see how good she is.

[15:05:01]

And waiting until the exact right moment, getting a lot of pressure for impeachment but not taking the bait and then waiting until the exact right moment to move forward with impeachment, when some stuff about President Trump came out, when some of our moderate members, especially with military backgrounds, started to move a little bit. And then she moved with, I think, perfect timing.

And then, really, in the last week, to watch her operate when the narrative trying to come out of the Republican Party was, we're obsessed with impeachment, we can't get anything else done, Washington shut down, and the reality of it is we passed a huge bipartisan appropriations bill that Democrats got huge wins in, in investments, in education, in healthcare, in research, in cutting-edge technology investments, in Department of Energy, we did very, very well, and that was a buy partisan deal.

And then the USMCA, the trade agreement, we haven't had a bipartisan trade agreement in the last 18 years that I've been in Congress. She was able to do that all at the same time. And you can't deny her skill.

CABRERA: So let's talk about her strategy, I guess, in this next step. She won't commit to sending over the impeachment articles to the Senate until she's assured of the process of that chamber. Why might she see having some kind of leverage here?

RYAN: Well, I think, you know, this is playing out kind of technically on Capitol Hill where as you know, and many people who follow this stuff know, that there's always this huge tension between the House and the Senate, more so sometimes than between Democrats and Republicans in the House or Democrats and Republicans in the Senate. The tension is really between the House and the Senate. So this is kind of par for the course.

But I will say that I think the strategic high ground maneuver that's happening here by Speaker Pelosi is that over the holidays, over the course of the next two weeks, at holiday dinners, Christmas dinners, New Years parties, this conversation is going to come up, and it's going to be why isn't Mitch McConnell allowing people to testify? Why have they already made a decision? Why won't they, the Republicans in the Senate, allow documents? This is a kangaroo court.

And over the course of the next two or three weeks, I think more Americans --

CABRERA: You sound a lot like Republicans and what they were saying in the House, the kangaroo court. So what I'm hearing you say is you believe that people are going to feel the pressure, that lawmakers and senators are going to feel the pressure when they're back home in their districts from their constituents, and maybe that will influence the process that is eventually agreed upon?

RYAN: Yes, I think so. And I will say, look, we wanted more people to testify. I mean, we wanted more documents. It was the president of the United States who told his people, Mick Mulvaney, his chief of staff, and others, they weren't allowed to testify in the House hearings. So that was coming from the White House.

Now, I will say this, you mentioned it in your last segment -- or not in your last segment, a few minutes ago -- that this new articles coming out, this op-ed from the Christianity magazine, the group run by Steve Schmidt and other Republicans who are starting the Lincoln Movement or Lincoln Project, that's happening now all at the same time.

So I think this is going to start widening a little bit and you may start seeing the ground shift a little bit under the Republicans' feet.

CABRERA: While, we wait and watch and see what happens and where that goes, and we all are in this holding pattern regarding, let me ask you about the 2020 election, because here is something else that we learned. The new CNN poll finds 76 percent of Americans see the economy as good right now. This is the highest ranking in nearly 20 years. Now, that's nationally.

I want to ask you specifically about Ohio, your home state, because no Republican has ever won the White House without winning Ohio. Do you think 76 percent of people in your state believe the economy is good?

RYAN: I don't think so. You know, just saying is the economy good? You know, yes, it's good. But am I still struggling? Is the middle class still struggling? Are people still living paycheck to paycheck? Are prescription drug costs still eating into disposable income? Those kinds of issues are still there for the vast majority of Americans. And so I wouldn't take the bait on that particular question in that particular poll. I think while people are maybe stabilized, they still have huge debt, college debt, personal debt, mortgage debt. People are still struggling underneath that.

And I think Joe Biden gets this and he really hit that hard during the debate a few days ago, where he understands this. And I think that's what gives him the edge in the Democratic primary and really the edge against Trump. Because Trump -- if I could say quickly, Trump is making the same mistake, if I dare say, that Hillary Clinton made. The economy is going great. Look how great -- we got to keep it going. Trump is saying how great it is. But if the vast majority of people aren't connecting with that, he's going to look out of touch and Joe Biden will not. And that will give him a distinct advantage.

[15:10:02]

CABRERA: Congressman Tim Ryan, good to have you with us. And just a reminder for our viewers that you ran, you were in the race for the 2020 White House race and now are endorsing Joe Biden. So, good to have your perspective on all things 2020 as well as impeachment. Thanks again.

Joe Biden campaigning in Iowa today hot of his performance at the Democratic debate. What he has to say about Democrats who celebrate impeachment. You are live in the CNN Newsroom.

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Right now, we are just over a month away from the first in the nation caucus in Iowa and a slew of presidential candidates are there today, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Senator Cory Booker, Senator Amy Klobuchar and Former Vice President Joe Biden, all crisscrossing the battleground State holding events.

Earlier, Biden spoke about this week's historic vote on impeachment and whether it's a cause for a celebration by his part.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fact is there's nothing to celebrate about impeachment. It's a sad moment for the country. And there's -- don't get me wrong, it's not that think it's unfair that Donald Trump has been impeached and have to face charges that were made. But the idea that it's worth celebrating, I find it counterproductive because it's nothing to celebrate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN Political Reporter Arlette Saenz is on the ground in Iowa and joins us now. Arlette, what has been Biden's overarching message on this two-day tour there?

[15:15:02] ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Ana, we are in Chariton, Iowa, where Joe Biden is expected to make a stop in just a short while. But Biden has repeatedly -- when he talks about impeachment, he says that his focus, while the House and Senate is doing their work, his focus is going to be on making the case that he is the best candidate to defeat President Trump. That's something you hear him stress over and over again, as he did this morning at an event in Ottumwa, Iowa, his first stop of the day.

And he repeated this argument which he made at the debate earlier this week, when he talked about the need for bipartisan cooperation, and said that he understands why people may not want to work with Republicans, given his own personal family history. But they still need to move aside from that.

Take a listen to what he had to say in Ottumwa earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: No one running for president who has more reason to be upset and angry with Republicans. There's no one running who has had their family and their only surviving son attacked viciously.

Look, I don't say this because I think we're all going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya together when this is over. I don't think that's going to happen, but I say it because it's the only way to get anything done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: So Biden went on to say that Republicans and Democrats need to work on consensus to try to bring unity to the country.

Now, if an impeachment trial does move forward in the Senate, there are several senators who are running for president who are going to be partaking in that trial, Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, like Cory Booker. All will be spending a lot of time in Washington D.C.

Today, Amy Klobuchar, here in Iowa, she's on a bus tour of her own, she said that she might have to Skype into Iowa events if she's over in Washington for those -- that Senate trial. But all of these candidates are certainly going to be placing a lot of focus here in the states. We are now 44 days out from the caucuses, Ana?

CABRERA: You mentioned Klobuchar. She said she's raised more than a million dollars in the 24 hours after the debate. Arlette Saenz, thank you for that reporting.

Not only was this week's debate the last debate of the year but also it included the smallest group yet, just seven candidates, five men, two women, three of them sitting U.S. senators, and they took the stage on Thursday night, almost 24 hours, to the moment after President Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives.

Harry Enten is our Senior Political Writer and Analyst and joins us now with the latest polling in the 2020 race in here. And we are just 44 days out.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes.

CABRERA: I knew you knew that number because you are our numbers guy and you're counting down. But worth noting the data we're about to discuss. It came, it was collected before the debate this week. So that being said, let's let's start with who Democrats like the most right now.

ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, the fact of the matter is Joe Biden has led this Democratic race since the very beginning. And if you look at our polling this week, what you see is that Biden was up again at 26 percent, Bernie Sanders was fairly close by at 2o percent, but a clear lead for Biden.

And if you look at the averages since September, as we have up on there, all the numbers are pretty close by to where we have been, generally speaking, that Joe Biden has an edge but it's not a substantial edge, right? He's a frontrunner but he's a vulnerable frontrunner.

CABRERA: Yes, and holding steady, more or less.

ENTEN: Steady.

CABRERA: When you look at just favorability though and so you break the numbers down a little bit, it shifts, right?

ENTEN: Yes. This is really interesting to me. So we also asked, do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of the different Democrats? And what do we see? We actually see that Bernie Sanders is the best liked Democrat. His favorable rating is 74 percent, as you see up there. His net favorability rating, plus 54 points. Joe Biden is down at plus 42 percentage points in terms of net favorability.

But I think what's so important in a primary, it's not just about being liked. It's about being loved. And most of the candidates are well liked by a majority of the folks. So there's 52 percent of Democratic primary voters who like both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. They have a favorable view of both. And among those, voters, Joe Biden leads by 20 percentage points. So that, I think, is the key, is that Biden is ask able to connect more with those voters who like both he and Bernie Sanders.

CABRERA: Okay. Now, when you put all of them up against President Trump, if the election were held today, theoretically, who would win?

ENTEN: Yes, I think this is rather important. So electability is so important in a Democratic primary. Right now, 40 percent of Democratic primary voters in our poll said that they believe Joe Biden has the best chance of beating Donald Trump. That's more than any of the other Democrats.

But then we can also look at the general election matchups. Are these Democratic primary voters correct in this belief? And what do we see? We see that if you look at the horse race matchup, you will see that Joe Biden has a five-point lead in our poll over Donald Trump. All the other Democrats do a little bit worse.

So it seems to me when you look at who has the best chance of beating Donald Trump, Democrats believe that Joe Biden has the best chance at beating Donald Trump and the polling tends to back that up.

CABRERA: You're right. Our latest poll with Biden at 49 percent, Trump, 44 percent, Sanders, 49 percent, and Trump is 45 percent and so forth, but Biden with the largest gap there.

Last question, when we talked about the debate, which was just Thursday night, who do you think helped themselves the most and who should be the most concerned (ph)?

[15:20:01]

ENTEN: Yes. I mean, look, I've watched all of these debates, I watch them on replay, I do all this stuff. The fact is in all the debates prior to this one, Joe Biden was not at his top notch. I have gone back and watched his debates against Paul Ryan in 2012. You watched his debates against the Democrats in 2000, he was a really good debater.

This year, debates have tended to be a weak point for him. This was his best debate by far. He seemed to have answers to every single question. He wasn't going off and talking about things he shouldn't have been talking about. So I think Biden is a frontrunner, putting a performance that he needed to put in in order to maintain his frontrunner status, he might have helped himself a little bit.

One other person, Amy Klobuchar, you mentioned she raised all that money since the debate. She was the one who was able to attack Pete Buttigieg, who was tended to be up in the polls in Iowa. She wants to displace him. She wants to be the Iowa candidate. And if you can win in Iowa, who knows, you might be able to win the primaries overall.

CABRERA: Right. Thanks, so much, Harry. It's good to have you here. And happy holidays. Happy Hanukkah, I know, is what you say.

ENTEN: Merry Christmas.

CABRERA: Merry Christmas as well.

All right, ahead of the Newsroom, a Republican state lawmaker accused of taking part in domestic terrorism against the U.S. Now, he's taking a page out of President Trump's impeachment to defend himself. Details next.

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[15:25:00]

CABRERA: He took an oath to support the Constitution and laws of this country. But now, a six-term Washington State lawmaker is accused of planning and participating in acts of political violence against the U.S. government. That lawmaker, Matt Shea, is taking a page out of the president's impeachment to defend why he isn't resigning or even apologizing.

Sara Sidner has details.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, a Washington State Lawmaker is now being accused of domestic terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MATT SHEA (R-WA): Thank you, Madame Speaker. This just seeks to put this to a vote of the people.

SIDNER: In a stunning finding, this Washington State Republican lawmaker who's facing accusations of domestic terrorism against the country he swore to serve, that's according to an investigation commission by the Washington State legislature.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Article I is adopted.

SIDNER: And the state rep is using President Trump's impeachment as part of his defense. The state has now forwarded the report against State House Representative Matt Shea to the FBI and U.S. Attorney. The five-month-long probe found Shea participated in an act of domestic terrorism against the United States, engaged in and support of the training of youth and young adults to fight a holy war and advocated the replacement of U.S. democracy with a theocracy and the killing of all males who do not agree.

The investigation also cited Shea's engagements with the Bundy family, anti-government activists who call for armed resistance and the takeover of federal lands.

The report list Shea's militant actions across three states, in 2014, in Bunkerville, Nevada, in 2015 in Priest River, Idaho, and in January 2016, in Burns, Oregon. Shea engaged with militia members in the planning of an armed takeover of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

That incident ended with federal and state law enforcement moving in to remove armed militia members and ultimately killing militia member Robert LaVoy Finicum after a police chase.

Last night, Shea defended himself in a statement on Facebook saying in part, like we are seeing with our president, this is a sham investigation. He added, I will not back down. I will not give in. I will not resign.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: The House Republican leadership says that Shea has now been removed from the caucuses and from his ranking positions. They say it's too serious of an issue. He also did not take part in any interview for the investigative report. He did not return calls from CNN.

CABRERA: All right, Sara Sidner, thank you.

An early morning fire at a Las Vegas apartment complex killed six people and injured 13 others. Investigators are trying to figure out what caused this fire which erupted just before sunrise. People jumped out of windows to escape. A neighbor described how he and others tried to help get people to safety.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIC WILKINS, NEIGHBOR: So then they just started jumping. And once they started doing that out of panic, I just started trying to help them, guide them down. Do you know what I mean? Like they were jumping from the second floor, third floor, a lady, I think she was pregnant, she hit her head, her and her husband, took her to the doctor. I hope she's doing all right.

I few people dropped. I think another guy broke his leg jumping from the third floor. Just in a panic, people were just trying to get out of the building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Investigators say the fire seems to have started in the kitchen area of one apartment. Residents told fire crews the building just off the Vegas strip had no heat and some people may have been using their stoves to keep warm.

Coming up, Just Mercy, a new movie depicting the fight to free an innocent man from death row is already receiving rave reviews and award nominations. I spoke to Bryan Stevenson, the man who's work and book inspired the movie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYAN STEVENSON, AUTHOR, JUST MERCY: We have a criminal justice system that treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. And that's not fair. That's not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The rest of our conversation after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[15:33:12]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Democrats and Republicans can hardly agree on anything these days. But one thing they can and did agree on is criminal justice reform.

One year ago today, President Trump signed the First Step Act, with bipartisan support. As a result more than 3,000 inmates were released from prison.

Critics were quick to point out it only addressed prison reform, not sentencing reform. Just six months later, the Justice Department announced it would resume capital punishment after two decades. A new movie called, "Just Mercy," tells the true story of Walter

McMillan, played by Jamie Foxx. McMillan was wrongly convicted of murder and served six years on death row. He was exonerated with the help of a young lawyer, Bryan Stevenson, played by Michael Lee Jordan.

The movie is distributed my Warner Brothers, a sister company of CNN, and will be in theaters starting on Christmas Day.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: They convicted an innocent man. I was always taught to fight for the people who need it the most.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You don't know what it is down there. They ain't got to have no evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: How many of you all were with Walter that morning?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You ain't quitting this?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: No, sir. We all with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: I have to say I had a chance to see it. It is a powerful movie.

I sat down with Bryan Stevenson, who's book, "Just Mercy: A True Story of the Fight for Justice," inspired the movie. He is also an executive producer of the film.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: You take people to death row and give us some insight into part of the judicial system most people don't want to think about. Why tell this story now?

[15:35:01]

BRYAN STEVENSON, AUTHOR: I continue to worry about what's happened in this country. We have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. We went from a prison popular of about 200,000 in 1972 to 2.2 million today.

We have six million people on probation and parole in this country. There's 70 million Americans with criminal arrest histories. When they try to get jobs or loans they're disfavored by that arrest history.

We have a criminal justice system that treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. That's not right or fair. The death penalty is ground zero of a lot of the excess that has

characterized how we've managed criminal justice over the last half century. For every nine people we've executed in this country, we've now identified one innocent person who's been exonerated.

CABRERA: The work you've been doing at the Equal Justice Initiative in the past 30 years, you have been able to get the release, relief or reversal of more than 140 people wrongly convicted or unfairly sentenced to death. That is incredible when you think about those numbers and the amount of work each case takes.

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: What struck me about the movie and the one story you focus in on, Walter McMillan. As somebody learning his story, as the facts are revealed, it's so obvious that he was wrongly convicted.

STEVENSON: Yes.

CABRERA: And yet, even as those facts are put out there, the truth almost didn't set him free.

STEVENSON: That's right.

CABRERA: How do you explain that?

STEVENSON: I think we have allowed ourselves to be governed by fear and anger. And when you have people pushing these narratives of fear and anger, people will begin to tolerate things they shouldn't, accept things they shouldn't. I think that fear and anger are the essential ingredients of injustice and oppression.

In the '70s and '80s, we said addicted people were criminals. We will use the criminal justice system to respond to that population. We could have said that people with addiction and dependency issues have a health care need and need our health care system to respond.

But revved up by that fear and anger and demonizing, it became impossible to talk strategically. Everybody wanted to be tough on crime, put people in prison and lock them up forever. In that sort of environment, innocent people will be wrongly convicted.

CABRERA: Is there any evidence that the death penalty serves as a crime deterrent?

STEVENSON: No, no. In fact, we tend to see increases in violent crime in some of the places that are most actively implementing the death penalty.

I think for a lot of people, if the state can kill, if the government can kill, it doesn't help advance the point that no one should kill. There's a kind of illogic to the death penalty in my view. We say we're going to teach people that killing is wrong by killing someone.

Most people who are in crisis, the mentally ill, people who are in the margins of society, aren't going to be deterred by the threat of violence or death.

CABRERA: So do you think there's any circumstance in which the death penalty is warranted?

STEVENSON: No. For me, the death penalty is about, do we deserve to kill. I think if you focus the question on, does someone deserve to die, you can come up with those scenarios.

But if you turn the question to, do we deserve to kill -- we don't have a perfect system. And the death penalty requires a perfect system. If you make a mistake, you don't have the ability to recover from that.

CABRERA: As you know, the Supreme Court just halted --

STEVENSON: Yes. Yes.

CABRERA: -- the Trump administration's effort to resume executions in federal death penalty cases after a 16-year hiatus.

STEVENSON: Yes, yes.

CABRERA: What's your reaction?

STEVENSON: I think that's the right response. Whenever you try to use the death penalty for a political goal, you're going to do things that are unjust.

CABRERA: How do you square the Trump administration's advocacy of the death penalty with the criminal justice reform like the First Step Act that passed last year or the pardoning or commuting of sentences of people like Alice Marie Johnson?

STEVENSON: I think it's progress where you've gotten to the point that you have people in both parties that recognize that reform is needed. It doesn't mean that people don't also say things that are echoes of this whole era of fear and anger.

But it's really important to remember that leadership on these issues is not going to come from Washington. You know, our criminal justice system is a state-based system. And 90 percent of the people in our jails and prisons are there based on state convictions. Less than 10 percent of the prison population in this country is there as a result of a federal conviction.

[15:40:06]

So the president and even the Congress, no matter what kind of reforms they implement, will only have a small impact on what's happening nationwide.

CABRERA: Your work has taken on a new direction or another layer, I should say, as you continue to explore the history of racial inequality and economic injustice with your legacy museum, from enslavement to mass incarceration in Alabama. What do you hope that accomplishes? STEVENSON: I hope we can create an era of truth and justice in this country. We are still burdened by the legacy of slavery. The worst thing that happened during that period wasn't the involuntary servitude. We can end that.

The worst thing was this myth we created that black people aren't as good as white people, that black people aren't fully human, that black people are dangerous. And that created this ideology of white supremacy, this racial hierarchy. That's why people are pulled out of their homes.

You can be a talented, gifted, athlete, you can be an educator, you can be a doctor, you can be a lawyer, but you still have to navigate these presumptions of dangerousness.

That's why I believed it was time to get out of the court and start talking about these larger issues.

I have just seen what's happened in other parts of the world where there's been the willingness to talk. Rwandans insists on telling you about the genocide. I go to Berlin --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

STEVENSON: With the Holocaust, you see the symbols and stones everywhere that mark the places where Jewish families were abducted. Germans want you to go to the Holocaust memorial. There are no Adolf Hitler statutes in Germany. They don't want to be thought of like Nazis.

In this country, we haven't talked about slavery. We haven't marked the places where lynchings took place. We haven't talked about this legacy.

I think that has to change. That was the motivation for creating the legacy museum at the national memorial, which is dedicated to thousands of victims of lynching.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: My thanks for that conversation and Bryan Stevenson.

Coming up, see what happens when rescue workers try to pull a child from the rubble in Syria after an airstrike.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:14]

CABRERA: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is accusing Russia and China of having blood on their hands after they vetoed a U.N. resolution that would have allowed humanitarian aid to reach millions of Syria refugees. Beijing and Moscow saying the humanitarian situation in Syria is better than what the U.S. claims.

The vote came at the end of a week that saw deadly airstrikes, barrel bombs and shelling in northwestern Syria. And an included an uptick in double-tap strikes, when more planes attack a site and then return to attack again.

Syria's White Helmets have released a video they say shows just that happening, as they rescued a 9-year-old girl.

CNN senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's Isla (ph), 9-years-old, trapped under her collapsed home from an airstrike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: Moments earlier, Nate (ph), the civil defense volunteer you see in this video could hear her mother's faint cries from deeper under the rubble.

(SHOUTING)

DAMON: But then there is another warning.

(EXPLOSION)

DAMON: When the smoke and dust clears, Nate (ph) is still by Isla's (ph) side, but he says her mother's voice is gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: It's hard to describe, Liv (ph) tells us the following day, "What it was like with the girl in my arms and the strike and then realizing that I couldn't hear her mother anymore."

He said he tried to distract Isla (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: He tries to focus her attention on freeing herself.

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: He doesn't have the heart to tell her, her mother is dead. So are two of her little cousins.

"And we're on the job, we sometimes have to have hearts of stone," Liv tells us. "But in moments, we melt. We really melt."

(EXPLOSION)

DAMON: The last five days have been especially merciless (ph) --

(EXPLOSION)

DAMON: -- even by Syria standards with more than 50 civilians killed.

Liv (ph) describes it as being the most deliberate intense targeting of the civilian population in Idlib to date.

"The rescuers, survivors, and the dead, they're like family," Liv (ph) says, "bonded by cruelty and courage."

Isla (ph) is sealed in his heart. The little girl, who he saved, but whose mother was stolen from her.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Such a heartbreaking reality there.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, this jaw-dropping moment where one cruise ship crashes into another. Six people are injured. What the cruise line is saying now.

But first, the air travel business is already one of the biggest polluters in the world. And emissions are only going up.

CNN's John Defterios looks at how airports are making changes in the face of the climate crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR (voice-over): With nearly 4.5 million air passengers last year, more people are flying than ever before. Aviation is expected to account for a quarter of the global carbon budget by 2050. The industry is under pressure to change.

Biofuels are renewable substitutes for fossil fuels. They will be essential to lowering emissions across transportation according to the International Energy Association.

BRYAN SHERBACOW, CEO, WORLD ENERGY: Over time, the potential is complete displacement for all of the fuel, quite frankly.

DEFTERIOS: Here at Los Angeles International Airport, the fuel United Airlines purchased from World Energy goes into the general air tanks. Meaning all flights leaving LAX benefit from a portion of renewable fuel.

[15:50:05]

LAUREN RILEY, DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY, UNITED AIRLINES: Our business is that one day flying will become sustainable.

John Defterios, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: In Mexico, terrifying moments onboard two Carnival Cruise ships that collided at port in Cozumel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. He's going to hit us next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The Carnival Cruise ship "Glory" was pulling into port Friday morning when it hit the Carnival "Legend," which was docked. Six passengers were injured on the Carnival "Glory," which was sent back to its homeport in New Orleans.

Polo Sandoval is joining us now. He's been following this.

Officials say strong wind gusts, strong currents may have played a roll. What else have we learned?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It seems like the "Glory" is back on its itinerary, headed back to New Orleans.

But really jarring moments you just showed us in that clip.

CABRERA: Look at the damage.

SANDOVAL: Absolutely. The results here is that they had to survey the damage here, Ana. They said, after a close inspection, that the ship was safe enough to return to New Orleans, as you point out, so that's where it was at the moment.

A lot of the guests on board were greeted by a letter from the captain, explaining that a formal investigation is under way. However, they believe continuous wind gusts and strong currents pushed this ship into another Carnival ship. However, as you mentioned, the ship has been inspected.

[15:55:08]

Six individuals aboard complained of minor injuries. Authorities onboard saying they were checked out by the onboard medical staff and released. That's what we have here.

Of course, this is just one of many incidents that we've seen in recent years that shake up passengers. But again, authorities saying they're doing everything they can to

ensure the safety of the passengers and, of course, to officially close the investigation as to a cause.

CABRERA: What happens next in terms of the people on the ship? The ship is damaged. Were they compensated? Is their trip continuing? What happened?

SANDOVAL: Shaken but still on schedule at this point. In that letter, they did say they would be issuing about $100 -- or they would be issuing $100 of credit per state room they can spend on board before they pull into New Orleans tomorrow.

I can tell you, it would be great to hear from some of the passengers once they make it back onto dry land, a bit of their experience, what they saw, what they heard.

CABRERA: Do you know anything about the injuries?

(CROSSTALK)

SANDOVAL: At this point, authorities saying there were minor injuries on those six passengers. They do have a staff onboard to treat individuals for medical conditions or these kinds of emergencies.

CABRERA: Minor injuries.

SANDOVAL: They were quickly released.

CABRERA: Good to know.

Polo Sandoval, thank you.

SANDOVAL: Thanks.

CABRERA: Much more to come. At the top of the hour, we'll look at the brewing battle between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:00:08]

CABRERA: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Great to have you with us. I'm Ana Cabrera, in New York.