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Senate Returns to Impeachment and Iran Crisis; Rep. Don Beyer (D-VA) is Interviewed on War Powers Resolution and Impeachment; Fallout Deepens after Iranian General's Death; Death Toll Rises in Australia. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired January 06, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:34]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Lawmakers back from recess back on Capitol Hill as Washington faces both domestic and global crisis. Right now we still don't know when an impeachment trial will happen. In fact, if it will happen. Globally, lawmakers will soon vote on a resolution to limit President Trump's military options against Iran. That takes place in the House.

Manu Raju is following both threats.

First, Manu, impeachment standoff, Nancy Pelosi, question, when does she send the articles? What are you hearing from Democrats? Will that happen this week?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the week where we're going to get answers to those questions after two weeks of stalemate in which Democrats have demanded an agreement from Mitch McConnell to -- about witnesses and documents up front in this impeachment trial. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, said, no, let's deal with those issues later. That's led to the standoff on the Senate.

In the meantime, Nancy Pelosi has not sent those articles over to the Senate to begin the trial. And there's an expectation on Capitol Hill that that's going to happen soon. It's unclear exactly when she will send those articles over. But when the House comes back to session tomorrow, that's when some of those answers may -- those questions will be answered as she meets with some of her colleagues, as pressure begins to build, as it becomes clearer when she plans to deliver those.

Now, at the same time, the House is also making it very clear on how it plans to handle the issue of Iran. The Democrats are going to move to vote this week, according to an announced -- letter from Nancy Pelosi last night, to try to limit the president's power as it comes to Iran -- or legislation that they plan to vote on this week will actually try to impose a limit of 30 days of any hostilities the administration will take towards Iran and say if Congress does not explicitly authorize any military action after 30 days, that will no longer be allowed.

Now, this is similar to a Democratic measure that had been introduced in the Senate by Tim Kaine of Virginia. And expect that House bill to pass this week but the Senate chances seem unlikely at the moment given, of course, the numbers and the Republicans overwhelmingly support what the president is doing in Iran.

But all these huge issues, the president's facing an impeachment trial, how he handles Iran, the pushback that he's going to get from Democrats, and his handling with the -- with the military action with Iran all going to be faced -- facing a lot of questions from lawmakers as they return to Washington after this two-week break, Jim.

RAJU: It's going to be busy there. As always, Manu Raju on The Hill, thanks very much.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's talk about all that is ahead for Congress this week. Democratic Congressman Don Beyer of Virginia joins me.

Thank you. Happy New Year. Appreciate you being here.

REP. DON BEYER (D-VA): Thank you, Poppy. Happy New Year.

HARLOW: All right, so an adviser to Iran's supreme leader says that the response to the U.S. taking out Soleimani will be for sure military and against military sites. Given the international crisis, frankly, that we're in right now, do you have any concern with the Senate holding an impeachment trial of the president at this juncture?

BEYER: No, we -- we have shown, as we did in the last quarter, that we can impeach and still pass major legislation. For example, on drug prices, on the new NAFTA part two, USMCA. We have to be able to do more than one thing at once.

And I think, as Manu just said, it's critical that we get a vote in the House this week on an authorization to limit the use of military force and hopefully the Senate will follow that example with Tim Kaine's leadership.

HARLOW: You were one who came later to impeaching the president than others. It was May of last year. So sooner than some but later than some of your Democrats in Congress, some who called right after his -- you know, right after his inauguration to impeach him.

And I say that because the House wrote to a -- wrote to the federal applet judges last week seeking former White House Counsel Don McGahn's testimony in court, arguing that they could use it for additional articles of impeachment against the president, potentially more obstruction articles.

I wonder if you believe that that would be prudent. Do you believe potentially impeaching the president again, based on potential testimony from Don McGahn, would be prudent for the party right now?

BEYER: It becomes -- you know, I -- Poppy, I'm not good at what the political consequences are. And I take that lead from Nancy Pelosi, who has paused on sending the impeachment articles over despite whatever the political costs are. She's trying to protect the Constitution. We are still frustrated that many of the people that we called to testify before the House Intel Committee, the president forbid them to do it.

[09:35:00]

They refused to do it. We look at maybe months and months in court trying to get the courts to force them to come over.

But if we can get more evidence, that's good. I think that's one of the reasons why, after Mitch McConnell said no witnesses, no new documents, then Nancy Pelosi is forced to go back and say, what other evidence can we get before we send it over to them.

HARLOW: OK. Just to be clear, McConnell saying, you know, let's follow the Clinton model, decide in the midst of the trial, have a vote on witnesses. But I take your point.

I'd like to move on to Iran and the situation there --

BEYER: OK.

HARLOW: Because you've said, quote, the idea that you prevent war with a country by killing its leaders is not only not a strategy, it's not even a rational thought. But, over the weekend, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs said the intelligence was compelling, said that Soleimani was planning a significant campaign of violence. Of course the American contractor was killed on December 27th. This is a man with a lot of American blood on his hands.

Why, in your opinion, was the president wrong to carry out this strike?

BEYER: Well, for at least three reasons. Number one is decapitation has never been a credible strategy for preemption. We see -- and right away Soleimani has been succeeded by a successor. These plans for whatever they were going to do have not gone away.

The second part is, the people that opposed the Iran nuclear deal said, well, in 15 years they'll be able to restart their program. Now they've restarted it after five years. The exact worse consequence. And, finally, this whole notion of Trump saying we'll attack their cultural sites. Just think how Americans we would feel if they had targeted Pompeo or Giuliani or Esper or targeting, you know, the --

HARLOW: I mean that's a -- that's a fair point because I think a lot of people don't understand sort of the multifaceted role that Soleimani played, not only in Iran, but in Iraq and across the region, the power that he had there, and that he wasn't just a terrorist leader, right, not to minimize that, but that he was essentially a head of state, if you will, something who ran something akin to the CIA.

Look, you were a diplomat for years before serving in Congress.

BEYER: Yes. HARLOW: You were a diplomat under the Obama administration to Switzerland and Lichtenstein. We heard the military adviser to the supreme leader in Iran say that any negotiation with the U.S. is impossible unless the president were to stand trial in Tehran. Well, that's not going to happen. So is diplomacy with Iran all but dead?

BEYER: It sure seems in a difficult place for the next year. I think the next president can reopen it. I'd love to see this president actually make those overtures. I just don't trust that he would actually do that.

You know, I -- when I was in Switzerland, Switzerland is our protecting power in Iran. And so I would meet regularly with our Swiss -- the Swiss ambassador to Tehran. And they always talked about the need for much more confidence building measures, for conversations, things that never happened until we had the Iran nuclear deal.

HARLOW: Let me ask you a final question.

You were the first member of Congress to endorse Mayor Pete Buttigieg for president. And when you look at the foreign policy polling, the latest CNN has is from late November, but it puts Joe Biden way ahead of Mayor Buttigieg, 48 percent of potential Democratic voters think he's the best candidate to handle foreign policy.

Do you believe that Mayor Buttigieg is stronger on foreign policy, more adept to deal with the crisis with Iran, for example, that we're facing right now than the former vice president? And, if so, why?

BEYER: I don't necessarily say that he's more. I mean I certainly respect Joe Biden's many years as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the like. But Pete served in Afghanistan. He was a Naval intelligence officer. He's been on the ground.

When it came upstairs to the interview this morning, the security officer said, please don't let them kill my five cousins and brothers that are in Afghanistan right now. So I think that perspective of having served there recently gives him at least an equal insight into how things will move forward.

HARLOW: Congressman Don Beyer, I appreciate you being with me. Happy New Year.

BEYER: Thank you, Poppy. Happy New Year.

HARLOW: Jim.

SCIUTTO: Great to have him on considering his diplomatic experience in the past.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes.

SCIUTTO: Saudi Arabia, just one of the countries trying to deescalate the growing crisis in the region, but will President Trump listen to calls from U.S. allies for restraint?

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[09:43:36]

SCIUTTO: Tensions are rising in the Middle East over the U.S. air strike that killed the head of Iranian special forces, Qasem Soleimani. We've seen massive rallies, protests throughout the region since the attack. Some leaders are actively calling now, leaders of U.S. allies, for restraint from not just Iran but also the U.S.

HARLOW: CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us in Riyadh, CNN international security editor Nick Paton Walsh is live for us in Beirut.

And let's start with the Saudi's, Nic Robertson.

A member of the Saudi royal family will meet with White House officials in Washington today. And you have learned what we might expect, what we should expect from that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, absolutely. I was talking to a Saudi source a few minutes ago. Khalid bin Salman, the brother of the crown prince, so son of the king, effectively is the third most powerful man in the country, his title is deputy defense minister, but don't let that fool you. What I'm told is he is in Washington today to meet with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on a mission for the crown prince. And it's a very simple message he's bringing. It's a message of restraint. The Saudis want to find a way to deescalate the situation. So that's what he wants to talk to Mike Pompeo about.

I'm told, you know, part of the way that he'll convey this message is to say that, look, we live in the region. We've seen this sort of chaos before. We don't want it.

[09:45:00]

We've been a target. Saudis will say we've been a target of attacks from Iran before and we consider that we might be a target again. We don't want that. This is something we want to avoid. So that's going to be part of the message.

I was also asking the Saudis as well about what the Iraqi prime minister had said that Soleimani was going to meet with the Iraqi prime minister and was, according to the Iraqi prime minister, had a message with him for the Saudis, following a message the Saudis had given the Iraqi prime minister. Now, the Saudis are saying they were not aware that Soleimani had any message for them. So what we can expect in Washington is a simple meeting, restraint, but they're also going to want to know what the U.S. red lines are and what could come next.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Nick Paton Walsh, you are in Lebanon, where Hezbollah, powerful there, part of the government, in fact, and close relationship with Iran. Hezbollah, in effect, one of the proxies that Iran could use in retaliation, has used in the past. Tell us what you're hearing on the ground there about that possibility.

NICK PATRON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, I mean a notably restrained statement yesterday from Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah. Some anger, a large gathering in the southern suburbs of Beirut here and perhaps cold weather leaving people a little subdued. There were some sense of angry energy there certainly.

But what was missing from the speech were the usual condemnations and rhetoric against U.S. allies like Israel or Saudi Arabia as potentially the targets of retaliation. Hassan Nasrallah was extremely clear and precise and echoed what we've heard, frankly, from Qasem Soleimani's daughter, from the Iranian foreign minister, that essentially the focus now is ending the U.S. military presence in the region. Now, Hassan Nasrallah said also, too, that it was important to not target American civilians and focus on sending essentially American troops home in coffins.

Now, obviously, an almost impossible order to kick U.S. troops out of the dozen or so countries, they have thousands of troops in across this region here, but there's already moves away -- underway in Iraq, a reduce Iraqi presence for the U.S. military would jeopardize their presence in Syria. Donald Trump has already talked about leaving Afghanistan. That could slowly happen. And essentially Iranian officials are giving some degree pressure on something Donald Trump almost wants to do anyway. He's long said he wants to withdraw from this region. He immediately sort of allergically reacted to the idea of doing it out of his own timetable, but that is potentially where we're seeing the focus of Iranian resolve.

And I should point out, Jim, there is only actually one thing so far apart from this enormous display of mourning that Iran have physically done so far, and that's reduce yet again its commitments under the nuclear deal. That may be where we see the remaining flash point here that essentially Iran is abandoning those commitments. It may enrich faster. It's not clear if it's making a race for the bomb. But even earlier assessments done when a deal was signed, as you know he suggested that may even take a year. This could be the enduring problem potentially from the Qasem Soleimani killing.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, listen, I mean the cold hard fact is that Iran will be closer to the ability to make a bomb today or tomorrow than it was while the nuclear deal was in effect. Just a simple fact.

Nick Paton Walsh in Beirut, Nic Robertson in Riyadh, thanks to both of you.

Australia is facing disasters. Brush fires rage across the country. I mean look at those image there. It's like the surface of Mars. We're going to be live as the death toll continues to rise.

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[09:52:55]

HARLOW: Widespread devastation. Look at those images. I mean, Jim, you said, it looks like the surface of Mars.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: The sky is red in Australia where dozens of bushfires have just continued to burn out of control. An areas the size of West Virginia has been torched. The death toll stands at 24 people. Wildlife experts estimate nearly half a billion animals have died.

SCIUTTO: That's just incredible numbers. It's so hard to get a sense of the scale.

Australia has called up thousands of army reservists now to battle the fires. I mean look at the view out of that airplane cockpit there.

HARLOW: Yes, unreal.

SCIUTTO: Again, like the surface of Mars.

CNN's Andrew Stevens, he's live now in Australia's capital.

And, Andrew, listen, I mean the scale of this is just, I think, hard for people to understand. I wonder if you can help us, folks at home, understand. But how long do they think crews can get a handle on this given the size?

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA PACIFIC EDITOR: Well, Jim, the good news, and it's only short-term good news, is for the past 24 hours there has been rain over most of that affected area. It hasn't put the fires out, but it's reduced the level, the intensity of the fires.

The bad news is that this is, as I say, just temporary. By the end of this week, once again, we're going to see those temperatures soaring. We're going to see the hot, dry winds, which have been really fanning these flames, re-emerge and going back to the sort of conditions that you just were talking about then. It is really quite extraordinary looking at those pictures.

Night literal -- day literally becoming night. That eerie orange glow, that red glow. We were talking to someone just a few hours ago. They said they were sitting on their porch and they heard what they thought was a freight train. They said it sounded like a freight train. They went behind the house and there was a wall of flames heading towards them. They got out as quick as they could and luckily they were fine. They didn't know whether their house had survived or not. So they're -- that story is being amplified tens of thousands of times around Australia.

The fire services managed to get a lot of people out before the fires came through. A lot of other people, they were -- left too late.

[09:55:02]

They had to stay and pray that they and their homes would be safe from the fires.

There's still more than 100 fires burning, like I said. And they are not going to be put out until we get heavy, heavy drenching rain. And that's not forecast for another couple of months. Remember, we're right at the start of the bushfire season here in Australia.

The toll on the animal populations, as you said, it's horrific. Half a billion of these unique Australian animals have been wiped out. Obviously the number's very hard to get a figure on. But the habitat's been wiped out as well. An area, you know, ten times the size of what was -- what was destroyed in the Amazon has been wiped out and the fires are still burning. This is Australia in 2020. The climate change debate is well and truly underway in Australia and there's no respite really.

SCIUTTO: Yes. In the world too, right?

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: We're seeing the effects. It's just -- it's just devastating there.

HARLOW: And seeing those koala bears, you know, trying to find some patch of ground that is not in flames is heartbreaking, of course, and those 24 lives that were lost.

Andrew, thank you for being there and for reporting. We will stay all over that story.

Meantime, huge crowds gathering again in Iran today. Tensions skyrocketing after the deadly U.S. air strike on Iran's top general. We're following this all live from Tehran, Baghdad and across the globe, like only CNN can.

Stay right there.

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