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Trump Articles Of Impeachment Delivered To Senate; Indicted Giuliani Associate: Trump Knew "Exactly What Was Going On"; Warren To Sanders: "I Think You Called Me A Liar On National TV". Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 15, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[21:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, keep in mind, his team has been preparing for this just like the President's defense team, just like the House Managers have been.

They have been coming over back-and-forth to United States Senate, preparing for it, making sure he's got office space, everything's being set up for a very different process than he's used to, Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: All right, Phil Mattingly, thanks very much. Get some sleep.

The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, Anderson, thank you very much, appreciate it. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to PRIME TIME. I am Chris Cuomo.

This is a very big night. We've watched the impeachment articles literally be handed over, walked over to the Senate. This impeachment has now set into motion a removal trial.

The big question is, what about all this new evidence emerging of clear wrongdoing? Can the Senate really choose to ignore it? And will the White House continue this "Did nothing wrong" argument?

The President's best defender is on the show tonight, to respond, at a critical moment. Presidential Counselor Kellyanne Conway is here to test the President's arguments.

And we no longer have to wonder, like we were ever really wondering, about what was said between Senators Sanders and Warren in their post- debate moment. We have the audio. Let's listen to what went down and figure out where it leads for those two top Democrats.

Let's get after it!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, the President got some good news, earlier today, with one thing that he caused. The first phase of a China trade deal now signed. But, of course, that development is being overshadowed by another situation that he caused, which led to his impeachment.

Today, we watched, as the House went through its ceremony, this formality, historic hand-off of two high crimes charges in the form of impeachment. They literally walked them from the House to the Senate.

The seven newly-picked prosecutors, they're called Managers for the House, they will return tomorrow and formally present the articles and read them aloud. Then the jurors, also known as the Senate, will be sworn in.

Now, the President's defense will be taking part for the first time soon in this process. What is going to be their argument? Well it should have been is this worthy of removal, yes or no, was this a rightful impeachment on the facts, yes or no?

But that is not their posture. Their posture has been, through this President, he did nothing wrong.

Can the President maintain that posture in the face of so much evidence, both learned, and now new, and available, like this, from a man he says he doesn't even know, an indicted felon, with felony charges, Lev Parnas?

Here's what he says about the President's posture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEV PARNAS, INDICTED RUDY GIULIANI'S ASSOCIATE: President Trump knew exactly what was going on. He was aware of all of my movements. He - I wouldn't do anything without the consent of Rudy Giuliani, or the President.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: In terms of the President, and what he has said about you, he said about you, and Mr. Fruman, Igor Fruman, "I don't know those gentlemen. I don't know about them. I don't know what they do." You're saying that was not a true statement from the President?

PARNAS: He lied.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, again, let's set this up because it will be the frame for the argument that is to follow.

One, "I don't believe Parnas. He's an indicted guy," fine. He has documents that show conversations that were had in furtherance of what this President asked for in that call summary with President Zelensky.

We have a letter from Rudy Giuliani that shows that he is doing this on the personal behalf of the President, not working for the government, not working for the State Department, other versions that Mr. Giuliani has offered on this show, and other places, and that the President knew what he was doing.

And what were they doing?

On a piece of paper, written very clearly, easily legible, "Get the announcement of the Biden investigation and create communications with Zelensky." That's what that guy, Igor Parnas, was tasked to do for Giuliani, in service - Lev Parnas, in service of this President.

Now, was it worthy of impeachment? Argue is both way. Removal, arguments both way we'll start hearing them. Wrong! How is it not wrong? Will they maintain that posture?

Let's bring in Counselor Kellyanne Conway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Good to have you.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Good evening.

CUOMO: Thank you for taking the time. So, let's deal little bit with process and then to substance.

The Senate's saying "We don't know if we want witnesses."

If the President has people, at the top, who haven't testified yet, who supposedly clear him of any wrongdoing, why wouldn't you want them in the face of this new information? Why wouldn't you want it vetted for people?

[21:05:00]

CONWAY: Well, Christopher, thanks for having me.

First of all, that's not how American jurisprudence works. You don't try to prove your innocence if you've not been proven guilty. And we don't need to present witnesses. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We'll respect the process in the Senate however it unfolds.

We do feel that the Senate process will be, one, more fair to the President than whatever that was in the House and, second, more familiar to the public.

So, most Americans are not familiar to whatever make-it-up-as-you-go- along process happened in the House or whether it was Adam Schiff growing mushrooms in the dark basement with the depositions that we couldn't have access to, the President couldn't challenge witnesses, present witnesses, challenge evidence, present evidence, have his lawyers present.

You had a bunch of professors testifying about extortion, bribery, quid pro quo.

CUOMO: Right.

CONWAY: The Mueller report. None of which is in these articles. And let me just say that. I mean you all were talking fluent Latin there for quite a while, quid pro quo, all of a sudden, not even talking Pig Latin.

These articles of impeachment are thin. They are specious. They've been presented to the Senate. And we respect the process in the Senate.

CUOMO: Well--

CONWAY: The trial process will be much more familiar to Americans who know what a--

CUOMO: Well we'll see. We'll see.

CONWAY: --what a trial is.

CUOMO: We don't want the processes.

CONWAY: But also - but - but--

CUOMO: But hold on one second. Let's go one step at a time.

CONWAY: OK. But we will see. We - we will see--

CUOMO: Let's go one step at a time, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: Sure.

CUOMO: One step at a time.

CONWAY: Go ahead.

CUOMO: The process, not to get in the weeds of the past, because we need to focus on the present.

But the way this went down, other than the fact that the House did the fact-finding, not a completely Secret Task Force, as was the case for Clinton, as was the case for Nixon, the House did it.

When it came to what kind of rights, and access, the White House had, it was the same as Clinton had, once it reached the House Judiciary. But that's the--

CONWAY: Hey, you know what's different?

CUOMO: But that's the past. But hold on.

CONWAY: You know what's different?

CUOMO: I'm not asking you--

CONWAY: What they - you know what--

CUOMO: --to call witnesses. And no one should have to call witnesses.

CONWAY: It's not the past. It's in the articles of impeachment.

CUOMO: No one should have to call witnesses on their own behalf. No one should have to provide a defense. No one should have to prove their innocence.

What I'm saying is I've never heard anybody hiding an alibi. If I had somebody, if you had somebody, who cleared you of a charge, you would bring them up. Why? That's in the interest of justice, and it's in your personal interest.

CONWAY: No. That's just not true.

CUOMO: Here, the President has done the opposite.

CONWAY: I don't know if there's a question--

CUOMO: And the argument is it was obstruction.

CONWAY: Christopher?

CUOMO: And that's an article of impeachment.

CONWAY: You invited me on the show tonight, and there's got to be a question lurking there in there. I mean you're talking a lot.

CUOMO: I'm countering points. Go ahead.

CONWAY: You ask the questions. I try to answer them.

CUOMO: Go ahead. You'll get your time.

CONWAY: I'm just standing here.

CUOMO: Go ahead.

CONWAY: No. I'm just sitting here. But - but go ahead. Do you have a question?

CUOMO: Yes.

CONWAY: Because your premise is wrong.

First of all, it is not the - it is not the deep past what happened in the House. The House rushed through the impeachment process. They didn't do their job fully and completely. And then they sat on the articles--

CUOMO: They weren't allowed because you hid witnesses--

CONWAY: --for about a month. The--

CUOMO: --and documents and even this information from Parnas. CONWAY: We didn't hide witnesses.

CUOMO: They had to wait for federal prosecutors, under the jurisdiction of this President's DOJ, to release Parnas to give it. So, all the delays--

CONWAY: They didn't need to vote--

CUOMO: --are on your behalf.

CONWAY: They didn't need to vote before Christmas. That's not true. Hey Christopher?

CUOMO: Yes?

CONWAY: They're trying to impeach and remove a President. They're not going to get their way.

Nancy Pelosi is in a terrible spot because the people who want the President removed from Office probably believed that impeachment would do the trick, the people who think that this has been a big waste of time, and money, the - the - the people's time, and the money they paid to their Congress, who's not doing the rest of their work, for the people, they won't be happy about it.

I mean the CNN report on December 20th made very clear, according to your own polling, that 76 percent of Americans say the economy is either very or somewhat good, the highest number in many, many years, if not decades.

You know what? History was made today, but not because a bunch of Impeachment Managers, six out of seven, who were already in favor of impeaching President Trump, before they had the process, before you had the whistleblower complaint. Think about that.

CUOMO: The House Managers in the Clinton situation were also populated--

CONWAY: They were in favor of impeachment before we even had the whistleblower complaint.

CUOMO: --by people who were against Clinton--

CONWAY: I don't want to talk about--

CUOMO: --from jump.

CONWAY: Oh, I thought you were - yes, so OK.

CUOMO: Well but that's apples-to-apples.

CONWAY: Christopher?

CUOMO: That's apples-to-apples.

CONWAY: No, you think the past - you think the past is the - no, you think the past is what the House did last month? But you - now you're talking about the past in the Clinton?

CUOMO: Well it's apples-to-apples.

CONWAY: You want to talk about Bill Clinton? Let's--

CUOMO: You're saying it's unfair. It's never been like this before. It has been.

CONWAY: Hey, let's get after it.

CUOMO: I don't want to talk--

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: I don't want to talk about Bill Clinton. I want to get after what this means now.

CONWAY: You're just - you're talking over me.

CUOMO: And - no, no, no.

CONWAY: You're being rude to your guest. And it's nice of me to be on here.

CUOMO: No, come on, Kellyanne, you - you know better than that.

CONWAY: But let me say something.

CUOMO: You know better than that.

CONWAY: Hold on. You want to talk about Clinton? I saw the CNN documentary on the Clinton impeachment. I thought it was a fantastic product.

CUOMO: Yes, me too.

CONWAY: Because we are reminded that--

CUOMO: I thought it was good.

CONWAY: --President Clinton was running around, asking his personal secretary, poor Betty Currie, to hide the gifts that he had given Monica Lewinsky, to lie that he had never been alone with Monica Lewinsky. I mean you had all of that real evidence.

CUOMO: Yes. You have real evidence here too.

CONWAY: Obstruction of justice, lying to the Grand Jury, on August 17th, 1998.

CUOMO: You have the President's lawyer--

CONWAY: No, you don't.

CUOMO: You have - well here - let me go.

CONWAY: No, you don't.

CUOMO: The President, his lawyer--

CONWAY: And you know why you don't have evidence?

CUOMO: --the President--

CONWAY: Where's the Mueller report in the articles?

CUOMO: Listen. Kellyanne?

CONWAY: Where's the bribery? Where's the extortion? Where's the quid pro quo?

CUOMO: Here's where it is.

CONWAY: Where is it?

CUOMO: Here's where it is. You have a call summary where the President--

CONWAY: Not in the articles.

CUOMO: --where the President clearly asks for a favor. We now have all of it, fleshed out, and there is a clear picture of wrongdoing.

CONWAY: He said "Do us a favor."

CUOMO: I'm not saying "Worthy of removal."

CONWAY: "The country."

CUOMO: I'm not saying "Worthy of removal." I'm saying "Wrong."

CONWAY: Because you're right.

CUOMO: How was it wrong? He had--

CONWAY: And he won't be removed.

CUOMO: He has his personal lawyer--

[21:10:00]

CONWAY: And then he'll be re-elected.

CUOMO: You see how I treat you differently than I treat you? You know why? Confidence in what I'm saying. Rudy Giuliani said on this show--

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: --"I wanted them to go after the Bidens."

CONWAY: Respectfully, it's not making a lot of sense.

CUOMO: He did it for the President of the United States in a personal capacity. He enlisted Parnas--

CONWAY: The President did not say that.

CUOMO: --Fruman, and others - no, no, no. Giuliani said it on this show.

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: And elsewhere.

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: Lev Parnas says that the President says he doesn't know them.

CONWAY: So, what matters is what the President said.

CUOMO: They did it on his behalf.

CONWAY: So, Rudy Giuliani is not - Rudy Giuliani is not being impeached.

CUOMO: They did wrong things.

CONWAY: So--

CUOMO: If he admits he did something wrong--

CONWAY: No. So--

CUOMO: --he wouldn't even have been impeached, Kellyanne. He wouldn't have been impeached.

CONWAY: So, Christopher, you're trying to try - you're trying to try the case on your show, and you can't try the case on your show. It's not the appropriate forum.

CUOMO: I'm trying to vet the facts.

CONWAY: We'll let the Senate be the - we're going to look at the Constitution, and we'll let the Senate, under the Constitution, be the jury.

CUOMO: What kind of trial--

CONWAY: But here's what we do know.

CUOMO: --can have not witnesses?

CONWAY: That - that we're - well a trial where there's - there's no evidence, no witnesses, and the person will be acquitted, not removed from Office.

CUOMO: There's no such thing. That's not a trial.

CONWAY: And I have to tell you something.

CUOMO: You're both lawyers.

CONWAY: If the Democrats--

CUOMO: We've never heard of a trial like that.

CONWAY: Excuse me. If the Democrats - that's not true. If the Democrats have--

CUOMO: Name one trial where there were no witnesses.

CONWAY: --if the Democrats wanted to get rid of Donald Trump, here's how you've all been trying to do it.

First, you're going to overturn the results of election. They're going to find the electorates. There's 70,000 votes in the three states. Then, they're going to "He's not going to like D.C. He's going to want to go back to New York." That was weird.

CUOMO: This all nonsense.

CONWAY: Then it's going to be Russia collusion for two years. Recession--

CUOMO: What I'm talking about is wrongdoing that is clear.

CONWAY: No. You're embarrassed because you pushed that for years.

CUOMO: I've never pushed any of this.

CONWAY: And then recession, and then it's Ukraine. And then it's the phone call.

CUOMO: I've never pushed any of it.

CONWAY: And you know what happened today?

CUOMO: Yes, what happened today?

CONWAY: Do you know what happened today?

CUOMO: They delivered articles of impeachment--

CONWAY: You never pushed collusion? You pushed it for two years.

CUOMO: --against the President.

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: There was collusion.

CONWAY: History was made today.

CUOMO: He had people in his campaign doing--

CONWAY: History was made today.

CUOMO: --stupid things such that there were a dozen instances of--

CONWAY: No. I was the Campaign Manager.

CUOMO: --potential obstruction.

CONWAY: I was on CNN, every day, telling you how we would win. So, I would never have talked to a Russian. We didn't need the Russians to help us beat Hillary Clinton.

CUOMO: You didn't. Others did.

CONWAY: And we weren't going to need the Ukrainians to beat--

CUOMO: You got a guy looking at jail time right now.

CONWAY: --Joe Biden.

CUOMO: You got a son who was seen as being too--

CONWAY: Have you seen Joe Biden recently?

CUOMO: --too dumb to know he shouldn't have done it. Come on, Kellyanne, they were doing dumb things.

CONWAY: Oh, stop it.

CUOMO: Not you, but others.

CONWAY: That's ridiculous.

CUOMO: That's collusion. Playing with people who you shouldn't, for bad reason--

CONWAY: So, you're going back to - you're going to Russian collusion?

CUOMO: No. You've brought it up. What I'm saying is this. This is my last point for you. The question is this.

CONWAY: No. Nancy Pelosi brought it up again today.

CUOMO: How can you look--

CONWAY: Yes.

CUOMO: --at what Lev Parnas says, and what the documents show, and what the President asked for in the summary.

CONWAY: I - I don't know Lev Parnas.

CUOMO: Well the President does. And not saying that he did--

CONWAY: Are these documents - I'm sorry--

CUOMO: --this the wrong way.

CONWAY: --these documents, what he wrote in a hotel? CUOMO: Yes.

CONWAY: Hard.

CUOMO: Contemporaneous documents--

CONWAY: OK. Great. So, now we're going to impeach--

CUOMO: --are highly material and relevant--

CONWAY: Right.

CUOMO: --and probative as evidence as you well know as an attorney.

CONWAY: Yes. Chris, I think if you're going to invite anyone on the show, because I - I watch CNN, and what you do is when you have a Democrat on, cat's got all of your tongues. You - you let them say whatever they want to say--

CUOMO: That's not true.

CONWAY: --even if they make no sense, even if they have no chance of being - that's not true.

CUOMO: That's not true.

CONWAY: I - do you want me to post - do you want me to tweet the examples?

CUOMO: You are in power. You are defending the President against things that are wrong.

CONWAY: You're not letting me--

CUOMO: And you will not deal with the facts of the circumstance--

CONWAY: You're not letting me speak.

CUOMO: --because you can't. I get it.

CONWAY: I can deal--

CUOMO: But I want to give you a chance.

CONWAY: If you'll let me speak - no, but if you'll let me speak, then I would.

CUOMO: Speak to what Lev Parnas says, and what the documents show--

CONWAY: But you're not letting me speak. You're talking over me. You are.

CUOMO: --and what the President shows, and the witness showed.

CONWAY: I don't know Lev Parnas. What documents?

CUOMO: You don't have to know him.

CONWAY: You - let's start out the way you started out, which is he's indicted. He faces finance - campaign finance. I don't know the person. But here's what I do know.

I know that if you've watched Joe Biden for an appreciable amount of time, including on CNN's own debate last night, you know that guy does - we don't need anybody's help to beat him, OK?

CUOMO: Doesn't matter to me.

CONWAY: And the President in that phone call--

CUOMO: I don't care about the outcome of the election. I care about fairness and fact.

CONWAY: The President in that phone call - well - no, you don't. If you cared about facts, you won't be talking about Lev Parnas and what he wrote--

CUOMO: Why not?

CONWAY: --on a hotel card. You would have--

CUOMO: Why not?

CONWAY: Because you would have the following. You would have - you would have what people promised on your network, for years, collusion, conspiracy, bribery, extortion.

CUOMO: That - look, that was dealt with in the probe.

CONWAY: Quid pro quos.

CUOMO: This is something the President did--

CONWAY: You would have all of that.

CUOMO: --as an arguable abuse of his power, for his own political benefit, using his lawyer--

CONWAY: The Mueller report.

CUOMO: --manipulating an Ambassador, having guys surveil her.

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: And he knew them. And according to Mr. Giuliani--

CONWAY: No.

CUOMO: --he had knowledge and consent of all of it. How is it not at least wrong?

CONWAY: So, that was said on a TV show. That's not said under oath. You're - you're - guess what? You're not the judge, jury, and executioner, respectfully.

CUOMO: No. I'm not.

CONWAY: You have a TV Show.

CUOMO: I'm just trying to get answers--

CONWAY: This is not a court of law.

CUOMO: --to very obvious questions.

CONWAY: You don't have anybody under oath. And boy, do we know--

CUOMO: Obviously! Because man, do they lie!

CONWAY: --because they come on here, every night, and they lie, and - and they say things--

CUOMO: People who come in on defense of this President--

CONWAY: --and they say things--

CUOMO: --lie like crazy. I defend you against it because I believe that--

CONWAY: No. I would never lie to you, and you know that.

CUOMO: --you spin away from questions.

CONWAY: And you know that.

CUOMO: I'm not accusing you of it.

CONWAY: You've said that to me privately.

CUOMO: I'm not - I'll say it to you publicly.

CONWAY: Well and you've said it privately.

CUOMO: I don't think you're a liar.

CONWAY: You want that moment to go viral.

CUOMO: I think you spin away from questions--

CONWAY: And it won't.

CUOMO: --and do it very well.

CONWAY: Thank you.

CUOMO: Others lie their asses off on this show - don't.

CONWAY: No, no. I'll answer your questions.

CUOMO: Yes. CONWAY: But you're not answering me - you're not asking a question. Last time I was on, you didn't want to ask questions either. You just wanted to talk.

CUOMO: I'm going point for point with you.

CONWAY: If you wanted - it sounds like you don't want me to answer your question. Here's the deal.

CUOMO: I think it's a value to the audience to see what the President's best defender could put out.

CONWAY: Here's the deal.

CUOMO: Last word to you.

CONWAY: No. But the President's best defender gets to speak on other shows. I'm on Sunday shows routinely.

CUOMO: 14 minutes!

[21:15:00]

CONWAY: I'm on the morning TV. I do gaggles like nobody else does. And you know what? I don't - and - and they let me answer the question.

Christopher, here's the bottom line. This President is not going to be removed from Office. If the Democrats really wanted to get rid of him, they would have figured out a way to do it at the ballot box. The - the--

CUOMO: That's their task. That's on them.

CONWAY: --the 2020 Democrats can't even get a word in edgewise.

CUOMO: That's on them.

CONWAY: No. No.

CUOMO: On me, is testing power and making sure that good information for the--

CONWAY: They can't even get a word in edgewise. If they wanted to remove him--

CUOMO: --American people is out and argued. That's what it is, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: OK. So, then explain to the American people--

CUOMO: That's why I'm asking.

CONWAY: --explain to the American people why the promise was Mueller report, conspiracy, collusion, bribery, extortion.

CUOMO: See, I understand why you want to get away from the instant facts.

CONWAY: Hold on.

CUOMO: But they don't get away.

CONWAY: And not Lev Parnas.

CUOMO: Because look at - look at how fat this is.

CONWAY: The hero was Robert Mueller, not Lev Parnas.

CUOMO: Look, Lev Parnas wasn't part of that.

CONWAY: The hero were - were these people who testified--

CUOMO: Lev Parnas is part of this that the President started right after Mueller said to stay away from foreign powers, and everybody agreed. Kellyanne, I promised you I'd keep it reasonably short. I will.

CONWAY: No. No. He - but he - you can't--

CUOMO: You are always welcome on this show.

CONWAY: No. You can't promise - no, you can't - you can't say things like the President asked him to investigate a rival for his political benefit, and get away with it. I have a response to that. Show me in the call where that is done. He never mentioned 2020.

CUOMO: "Do me a favor. Look into Biden."

CONWAY: He never mentioned aid. He never mentioned Joe Biden.

CUOMO: "A lot of people say it was terrible."

CONWAY: "Do us a favor." Stop misquoting it.

CUOMO: Rudy Giuliani says he wanted the Bidens. Lev Parnas said they wanted it.

CONWAY: "Do us a favor."

CUOMO: The people who were involved in the State Department all say it.

CONWAY: That's not in the call.

CUOMO: Doesn't have to be in the call. It was led to.

CONWAY: Let's talk about the call between the two Presidents.

CUOMO: But I'm out of time.

CONWAY: Let's talk about the fact that Ukraine--

CUOMO: I - I do. He asked for a favor. CONWAY: --got its aid.

CUOMO: And he said "Look into the Bidens."

CONWAY: Ukraine - Ukraine - he said, "Do us a favor." What--

CUOMO: Yes.

CONWAY: Zelensky ran on an anti-corruption agenda. And the President--

CUOMO: This was never about corruption.

CONWAY: --has every right to hold (ph) taxpayer dollars for--

CUOMO: It was about him. Lev Parnas just said it.

CONWAY: And they - no, that's not true.

CUOMO: Mr. Giuliani admitted it was about getting the Bidens, on this show.

CONWAY: Oh.

CUOMO: Kellyanne, I got to go, but you're always welcome here.

CONWAY: So, like I said, you're staking - you're staking your credibility on Lev Parnas?

CUOMO: No, on his documents and on the faith in the system.

CONWAY: The President wanted them to - the - the President wanted him to make--

CUOMO: --that if you try these witnesses--

CONWAY: --good on the anti-corruption agenda.

CUOMO: --in an open forum, the truth will come out, at least the best obtainable version. I have to go.

CONWAY: And are you at all concerned - are you at all concerned?

CUOMO: Yes.

CONWAY: I mean CNN just defends Hunter Biden all the time. "He did nothing." Are you at all concerned--

CUOMO: That's not true.

CONWAY: --that the Vice President's son--

CUOMO: I've said what Hunter Biden did was wrong.

CONWAY: --was there? I mean, are you at all concerned?

CUOMO: I think if you want to investigate it, you should. CONWAY: John King talked about it on May 12th.

CUOMO: But you should have done it the right way, not sneaking around. I got to go.

CONWAY: The New York Times wrote about it on May 1st.

CUOMO: I'm not the The New York Times.

CONWAY: The Adam Entous for The New Yorker wrote it, so, you know.

CUOMO: I'm not The New York Times. I'm Chris Cuomo. I'm CUOMO PRIME TIME.

CONWAY: Yes, well, CNN talked about it on May 12th.

CUOMO: And I appreciate you being on the show.

CONWAY: That - that Hunter Biden was a fair - was a - was fair game.

CUOMO: Listen, then you should have done it the right way.

CONWAY: Again, I'll calm it down. But you got to let me speak.

CUOMO: I got to go. Kellyanne, I got to go.

CONWAY: The guy's not going to be removed from Office.

CUOMO: I got to go.

CONWAY: We did do it the right way. We don't need to present evidence to exonerate a man who's been exonerated. But I just have one last thing to say.

CUOMO: I'm saying that you shouldn't hide an alibi if you have it.

CONWAY: History was made today. It was made with a--

CUOMO: And if you wanted to investigate Biden, you could have gone to your buddy, Lindsey Graham.

CONWAY: Not hiding an alibi.

CUOMO: And you could have gone to the A.G.

CONWAY: History--

CUOMO: You did it in a shady way.

CONWAY: I don't want to investigate the Bidens.

CUOMO: Because you wanted Ukraine to own it, not the President.

CONWAY: I think they're - they're completely boring to me.

CUOMO: I got to go. CONWAY: I think they're completely boring.

CUOMO: I got to go, but thank you.

CONWAY: But history was made today, but not with the articles of impeachment. It was made with the historic trade deal.

CUOMO: Don't cut off.

CONWAY: And the Dow hitting 29,000. Tomorrow, the Senate will vote on USMCA. That's history that matters to people.

CUOMO: It - it matters as well.

CONWAY: Thank you.

CUOMO: And that's why I mentioned it at the top of the show, the Trade Organization Agreement.

CONWAY: No. It matters mainly.

CUOMO: Listen. It - it - it all matters.

CONWAY: Look at your own polling. It matters mainly. USA Today, impeachment ranked a 11 out of 12 for most important issues.

CUOMO: 76 percent of the people say that there should be witnesses. But, thank you, thank you for making the case. You're always welcome.

CONWAY: 76 percent told CNN the economy is doing very well.

CUOMO: It is.

CONWAY: That went well. Thank you.

CUOMO: Both things can be true. You can have a strong economy and not lie all the time about what matters. Kellyanne, thank you very much.

CONWAY: What do you think Americans care - what do you think Americans care about?

CUOMO: I got to go. I have to go. You're going to get me yelled out for time.

CONWAY: And thanks for saying I would never lie.

CUOMO: By your own people.

CONWAY: I appreciate it. Thank you.

CUOMO: Yes, I don't think you're a liar.

CONWAY: You got it. Bye.

CUOMO: I don't. I think you spin your way away from questions--

CONWAY: Thank you.

CUOMO: --you don't like. All right.

CONWAY: Appreciate it.

CUOMO: I do. I know. Do people lie? Sure. I vet them all the time on this show. It's what we do. She spins away and tries to make it about other things. That's the President's defense. What do you think of it? You saw it tested fact for fact. What do you think? It's on you.

Our former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine was arguably put in danger. That's why I said to Kellyanne, "He's got these guys surveilling her. He has knowledge and consent of it from Giuliani." How is it not wrong?

OK. So, here's what we need to do. Those are the arguments. It's good to hear them, frustrating or not. Let's put the President's "Perfect" in a whole new light of what we understand about what happened, and when, next.

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CUOMO: Everything gets simple when you just look at what matters. Politics is argument. People are going to fly in lots of different ways. And let's be honest, it's persuasive.

"Look at the transcript." We did. We keep reading it. Every time we do, with each new piece of evidence, it looks less like a perfect call and more like a road map for corruption and abuse of power.

The goal, "Lev Parnas conveniently wrote it down." Remember, you don't have to believe what he says. Look at what he wrote contemporaneously, typical Trumpian spelling, by the way, "Get Zelensky to announce that the Biden case will be investigated."

"Announce," not to get to the bottom of corruption, just the announcement, something only useful for what, politics, and for whom, Donald Trump, because that's what he wanted. It's not conjecture.

It's right there, according to Trump donor, turned EU Ambassador, Gordon Sondland.

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GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPEAN UNION: He had to announce the investigations. He didn't actually have to do them.

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CUOMO: Right? So, to get that, the now former Ukrainian prosecutor had a price to help with this. What? Laid it out in text messages, you want the investigation, including about the B-blank, which is how he spoke about the US Ambassador, she's got to go.

Trump himself bad-mouthing the same Ambassador. We know that because Zelensky said, "You were the first one who told me that she was a bad Ambassador," to which our President ominously responded, she's "Going to go through some things."

Now you can understand why she said this.

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MARIE YOVANOVITCH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: "She's going to go through some things," it didn't sound good. It sounded like a threat.

DANIEL GOLDMAN, HOUSE INTEL MAJORITY COUNSEL: Did you feel threatened?

YOVANOVITCH: I did.

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CUOMO: "It's just a feeling." No, because look at the text messages, showing people, working on behalf of the U.S. President, actively stalking an American diplomat, saying ugly and menacing things about what could be done to her.

Rudy Giuliani was running the operation, in his own words, conducted with Donald Trump's "Knowledge and consent." The President meanwhile championed the former Mayor's work, not once, four separate times in his perfect call.

[21:25:00]

We've also learned, since he was impeached, the order to withhold the aid, which was obviously the carrot, to Ukraine, came from POTUS, and POTUS directly, and his own people were warned, "Keep it quiet."

None of that stopped this President from asking for a favor, OK? The moment Zelensky brought up the assistance, "Do us a favor," they argued. No, it only helped Trump.

If he wanted to investigate Biden, he could have gone to the A.G., he could have gone to the Senate. He didn't. He wanted the stink to come from Ukraine, so it wasn't on him.

POTUS' people say releasing the transcript is evidence he had nothing to hide. It's the testimony and evidence that's come out since that exposes that as BS, and the fact that he's hidden the same people he says is his alibi. Nobody does that.

The only question, what will these Senators do? Will they do their damn job and put the information out there for your judgment? Let's see. We're going to bring in one of those jurors who will be sworn in tomorrow. Does he think it's going to be a fair trial? Next.

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CUOMO: Was the Ukraine operation about rooting out corruption? "No," says one of the guys helping this President in Ukraine. Will the jurors get to vet this witness and all the documents released Tuesday?

We want to bring in senior Democrat on the Intel and Finance Committees.

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TEXT: ONE ON ONE.

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CUOMO: Tomorrow, a juror-to-be, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, thank you very much for being with us, Senator.

SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): Thank you, Chris. It was one heck of a day today.

I was managing the trade bill. Then, few minutes later, I was sitting in my seat, as you mentioned, getting ready to be juror, and I was wondering what the Founding Fathers would say about all this, what they would expect.

And I will tell you, they would expect that the Senate worked for a just outcome rather than a political outcome. And I want to make only one other quick point, and take questions.

And that is Ms. Conway, you know, basically said despite the fact that almost a dozen people in the President's circle have been convicted, or on the way to jail, somehow she doesn't believe this is serious. That is pretty much like standing in the rain, and saying it's not wet. CUOMO: Her job is spin, to take arguments, put them on their head, to distract and do other things. She is very good at it. The problem is she ain't running this show, and she's not running your trial.

And the question that's got to be so frustrating for you is, if they don't want to agree, unlike the Clinton impeachment, the Senate here is, my understanding, saying "We do not stipulate to the facts as found by the House." Is that your understanding at this point?

WYDEN: The rules have not yet been finally set out. As you know, we're still working on this. But--

CUOMO: Right. But if they won't stipulate to the facts, how do they justify not having witnesses, because if you don't want to accept the record, you must create your own record to have a trial, you must have witnesses in any trial.

WYDEN: Chris?

CUOMO: How do they get around it?

WYDEN: Chris, if they have a witness who can prove the President's innocence, they ought to bring that witness forward. I mean that's basically the ballgame.

CUOMO: They say you don't prove your innocence. But, of course, that assumes that the jurors are the proxy for the President, which they're not supposed to be.

WYDEN: What I could tell you is, day after day, more evidence piles up.

Let's look at this Rudy Giuliani letter that has recently come to light. Now, here we have the President's personal lawyer, a senior Republican, one of the most influential people in the Republican Party.

He writes the President of the Ukraine, basically saying it is his mission to dig up foreign dirt. And he is pursuing this, essentially by order of the President of the United States.

Now, witnesses sometimes lie, sometimes misrepresent, the documents are pretty straightforward.

CUOMO: That's the beautiful thing about them, especially if they're contemporaneous, done at the same time, as what you're looking at.

And look, I think Kellyanne actually gives you good political cover here. "I don't know Lev Parnas." The President says the same thing. "I don't know why Rudy Giuliani was saying what he was doing. Talk to Rudy."

Well we have. And he said he was out to get the Bidens, and he was out to do that for the interests of his client, who was the President of the United States. And I don't know why that isn't enough for this to be egg on the face of the Republicans in the Senate. They say they don't know. They don't have good answers. They won't provide who they say is an alibi. You say you don't accept the record of fact from the House. How do you not have witnesses?

WYDEN: Chris, my sense is that there are a number of Republican Senators, who are agonizing over this question of whether or not to have witnesses, because they know, should they vote against having witnesses, and as we have seen week after week, more information comes to light, history is not going to treat them kindly.

CUOMO: Yes. And I mean that's the task.

We put them up on the screen, you know, a couple of them who are friends of this show. We welcome them all to make their case. How do you look at this information, and say, "I'm not even going to test it," even though that is your sworn duty?

Thank you, Senator Ron Wyden. We'll be watching tomorrow.

I know there're going to be restraints on you guys when it comes to what you can do during the pendency of the trial. But know, anytime you are free to tell the American people what it all means, you have a place here.

WYDEN: I'm - I'm of the view, Chris that in America, fortunately, the truth eventually comes out.

CUOMO: We look for the best obtainable version of it all the time. And these documents have to be part of that picture. Take care, Senator.

WYDEN: Thank you.

CUOMO: And good luck, doing your duty.

WYDEN: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, this trial is going to force some of the 2020 candidates off the trial, right, because they're Senators, so you got Senators Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar.

Now, talking about the state of play in the race, we saw what happened during the debate, right?

What the - the Sanders campaign says were crossed wires about this conversation that Warren and Sanders had about whether or not she should run, back in 2018, because whether or not a woman can win.

[21:35:00]

It's - the truth of it though wasn't during the debate. The truth of it was afterwards. We read the body language. We were more right than we knew. Wait until you hear the audio.

And I want you to listen to it with this question in mind. Who was being straight with me last night because isn't that the test? Next.

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CUOMO: So what did Senators Warren and Sanders say after the debate? Listen.

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SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think you called me a liar on national TV.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What?

WARREN: I think you called me a liar on national TV.

SANDERS: You know, let's not do it right now. You want to have that discussion, we'll have that discussion.

WARREN: Anytime.

SANDERS: You called me a liar. You told me - all right, let's not do it now.

TOM STEYER (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I - I don't want to get in the middle of it. I just want to say hi Bernie.

SANDERS: Yes, Good, OK.

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CUOMO: All right, let's discuss - why am I laughing? Because, you know, Bernie is Bernie. Now, the question is was he being truthful up there? Was Senator Warren? What does this mean?

Ana Kasparian, who backs Senator Bernie Sanders. Angela Rye.

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[21:40:00]

CUOMO: So, Angela, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren says, told her "I don't think a woman can run. I don't think she can win rather," OK? She says that's what he said. He says "I never said that. It would be ludicrous for that to be suggested."

Is Elizabeth Warren right to say to him afterwards "You called me a liar on national TV?"

ANGELA RYE, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS, CEO, IMPACT STRATEGIES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well it sounds like she said "Did you call me a liar on national TV" and that's certainly--

CUOMO: She said "I think you called me a liar"--

RYE: Yes, that's true. You're right.

CUOMO: --"on national TV."

RYE: Fact-check me. Fact-check me, Moderator, fact-check me. You're right.

CUOMO: Go ahead, go ahead.

RYE: I think - I think the reality of it is is it still sounded like a question, right? There was an inflection at the end of her statement. So, maybe we can find a middle point there.

I think the reality of it is Elizabeth Warren certainly believes that is what she heard, in the meeting with Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders certainly believes that's not what he said.

I think the reality of this is that we are spending a lot of time talking about what - something that happened none of us were in the room for. It is horribly unfortunate if Bernie Sanders said this. It is also horribly unfortunate if we continue to spend time on this. It is something they have to personally reconcile.

I said this on Don's show the other day. And that is, you know, at the - a few months ago, I did a podcast with Elizabeth Warren, asked her about what distinguishes her from Bernie Sanders, and she refused to answer the question, because of their relationship.

If they're going to let their relationship not be divided on policy, which is absolutely what the debate stage should be for, it certainly should not be about this conversation because she's - she's in - she came - she got - she joined the race anyway.

And we know, as we all talked about, that Hillary Clinton did win the popular vote.

CUOMO: No question about it.

RYE: So, it's not true even if you believe it, yes.

CUOMO: And she whopped Bernie Sanders also. You can argue about the process.

RYE: Yes.

CUOMO: But clearly, a woman got tons of support.

RYE: Yes.

CUOMO: Both in Party and in this country. And also, I agree with your analysis step for step--

ANA KASPARIAN, HOST & EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE YOUNG TURKS": Right.

CUOMO: --about its importance. Ana, here's why it matters to me, OK?

KASPARIAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Truth.

KASPARIAN: Can I just know one quick thing?

CUOMO: Go ahead. And then you can answer my question.

KASPARIAN: I agree with a lot of what--

CUOMO: Go ahead.

KASPARIAN: Sure, sure, of course.

I agree with a lot of what Angela said. But I also want to just note, part of the reason why Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by as much as 3 million votes is because Bernie Sanders campaigned on her behalf, traveling like crazy, to campaign on her behalf.

Why would he go out of his way to do that if he didn't believe a woman could win as President of the United States?

RYE: Well they're - they're--

CUOMO: I think people would say that that's a generous assessment--

KASPARIAN: Doesn't make any sense.

CUOMO: --of what he did on her behalf.

RYE: Yes, they would.

CUOMO: But, look, again--

RYE: Yes.

CUOMO: --I don't think it's necessarily relevant, Ana. I don't, I don't. I don't think it's worth going back to that. All I'm saying is this.

KASPARIAN: Mm-hmm.

CUOMO: I don't care if he said to Elizabeth Warren "I don't think a woman can win." I think that you could argue that lots of different ways about why he said it, what he meant, what was the context. I don't really care. I really don't. What I do care about-- KASPARIAN: Seems like CNN cares a lot. I mean, you guys--

CUOMO: Well but here's what I care about.

KASPARIAN: --have been covering it non-stop.

CUOMO: I care about the truth.

RYE: What--

KASPARIAN: Mm-hmm.

CUOMO: The best thing you guys have going, as a Party, no matter what part of it you are, is Donald Trump lies to you all the time, and we--

RYE: Every day.

CUOMO: --won't lie like that. That's your best argument, I think, person to person.

RYE: That's fair.

CUOMO: This goes to that. Who's telling the truth? It matters if only that reason, Ana. Is there not curiosity on your part because of that?

KASPARIAN: What I'm curious about is why there's absolutely no discussion about his record on - on what he's done, and what he's actually said publicly, when it comes to women in positions of power.

I mean, back in the 1980s, it wasn't even a popular position to believe that women had a place in politics. But he was out there, publicly talking about the importance of including women in politics, and encouraging women to run for President.

So, again, look, we don't know what was said in that room because no one was in there other than Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. The only thing that we can do is a character assessment by looking at his record.

CUOMO: But both things could be true, Ana.

KASPARIAN: And what I've seen from his record--

RYE: Yes, both things can be true.

CUOMO: He could have said it.

KASPARIAN: --is very impressive.

CUOMO: And he could have said these other things. And remember this, I'll tell you what. It's very rare that I hear people say a woman says that this happened, and we're saying "We don't know what was said."

KASPARIAN: I think - I think the context - I think the context matters.

CUOMO: Senator Elizabeth Warren says she knows what happened.

KASPARIAN: I think the context matters. And I find it strange that Elizabeth Warren hasn't quoted what he said. All she said is--

CUOMO: All right.

KASPARIAN: --I think a woman can win, he disagreed with me.

CUOMO: That's fine. That's fine.

KASPARIAN: But what's the context?

CUOMO: That's fine. I--

KASPARIAN: So, look, if we don't know what was said in that room--

CUOMO: I just think you either own what you said or you don't.

KASPARIAN: --I think it's weird to keep talking about it.

CUOMO: But I - all right, fine. I agree with you both on that point. I want to ask about something else.

Angela, when you looked at the stage last night, this aside, and I'm sure it wasn't part of your calculus in making the assessment to this question anyway, you see somebody up there that's definitely going to beat President Trump?

RYE: Chris, I - I - I have to be honest with you because that is my pledge as a person who has a platform on TV. And I have to be honest with you. That debate stage, last night, frightened me. It really did.

There is a - a huge void with Kamala Harris out of the race. There is a huge void with Julian Castro out of the race. There is a huge void with--

CUOMO: Cory Booker.

[21:45:00]

RYE: --Cory Booker out of the race. And I'm not just talking about ensuring that there is the appearance of diversity in a big tent by the Democratic Party.

It is also the ways in which our politics are being discussed, and it's frightening. It's - it is not that I am only going to lend my support to a candidate of color. But what I really have a problem with is how that debate stage was formulated.

It is a huge Party - huge Party rift with the DNC. Why does that matter about with - when you talk about your particular - the answer to your question, and that is simply this.

If there is a rift - rift in the Party, I don't know that folks can come together to back one particular candidate, especially when you don't see a whole ton of strength, right? That worries me a great deal. And we have a lot of groundwork to do before this Party can beat Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Do me a favor. I'm out of time on this one. Ana, let's do this. You know you're welcome on the show anyway. I love having you on. I love having your perspective on this.

KASPARIAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: Angela, you know that about yourself as well. Let's see how it goes with this votes. And also, we're going to have a couple of Town Halls coming up with some of the candidates at the top.

Let's keep this dialog going about why you guys feel or don't feel that your Party's where it needs to be, going into the biggest life - biggest fight of the new millennium, probably in this election.

Thank you both for speaking to what's--

RYE: Thank you.

CUOMO: --mattering tonight, appreciate it.

RYE: Thanks, Chris, thank you.

CUOMO: A 100 jurors going to be sworn-in tomorrow. They will decide this President's fate. Will they do the job the best way they can? And why should they anyway? That's the argument, next.

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CUOMO: Can you have a fair trial with no witnesses? No, I argue. So, why would you do that? One reason.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I'm not an impartial juror. This is a political process.

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CUOMO: Now, remember that when Senator McConnell takes this oath tomorrow. "I solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the

impeachment of Donald John Trump, President of the United States, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws: So help me God."

Hand to God, remember he said that, and remember he means what he told you. He's not doing his duty. He's doing Trump's bidding openly.

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MCCONNELL: Everything I do, during this, I'm coordinating with White House Counsel. There will be no difference between the President's position and our position.

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CUOMO: Now, unlike a court of law, there is no rule forcing the Senators to be fair. This is politics, as McConnell says, good, bad, and ugly.

But be clear. The GOP are doing their duty for Trump, if they have no witnesses. Period! Kellyanne Conway just showed you in her own way why. They have no good answers to the questions raised by what we know as fact, no real alibi. They hid primary witnesses.

And even this new information from POTUS pal, Parnas, the House was forced to wait on prosecutors, working under Trump's DOJ, to get it. Bottom line, these people are working for the system, but to their own advantage, OK? And they're forgetting that they work for you.

Nevertheless, we now know about the information, shady circumstances, leading up to the ouster of the Ukrainian Ambassador, making it even more clear what was going on with Ukraine, and why.

One excerpt. "Get Zelensky to announce that the Biden case will be investigated." That's from a guy who was working to help Trump and Giuliani, Lev Parnas. Was it about corruption? "Nope," that's what he says.

"Can't believe him. He's an indicted guy for felonies." Believe the documents. And why wouldn't you test it?

So much for Trump's favorite defense, "Just trying to root out corruption," Parnas and his papers say it's a lie. The goal was the announcement, not an investigation. The way it was done was wrong, OK?

They have an inability to own what is obvious in this White House, and it is their major weakness.

The inability to say "Fine! We did it the wrong way. I don't trust the State Department. I don't trust these guys. I had my own guys do it because I believe in the corruption," I'm telling you there's a good chance he wouldn't have been impeached, if he could tell you the truth. And he couldn't.

If Trump really wanted an investigation into the Bidens, just go to your pals in the Senate, go to the A.G., you could have launched an investigation. It's not what you wanted.

You wanted political advantage, and that requires your hands to be clean, the stink of corruption coming from Ukraine, forget if it existed or not. What good reason is there for you not to do everything that you could to do it the right way?

Now, look, you see how it all fits together. But here's why we need witnesses. You're not of one mind on this. You're 50/50.

Should you be put in a position to vote for, or against, this President, with all this stuff hanging out there, shouldn't the people who have sworn an oath to do your bidding vet it for you?

I can't, Kellyanne's right, I can't get it. I can't get these people to come on. I can't get the documents. And, by the way, this is their job primarily.

If all these people, who've been hidden, can clear the President, why aren't they coming out? No one hides an alibi. But they do hide trouble, all the more reason to hear it. Both other Presidential impeachments had witnesses.

And remember this. Here, not only do they not want witnesses, OK, they refuse to acknowledge the fact record from the House, which did not happen in Clinton, the Starr report was agreed to, including Clinton's perjury, which he initially disagreed with.

How can you refuse to accept the facts, but then say we refuse to find the facts, as well? If they vote against witnesses, they're voting against showing you the best obtainable version of the truth, and that is against your interests.

[21:55:00]

Constitutional duty, patriotism, raising your hand to God, those all, motivate, even a reluctant Senator, to do the right thing. And 66 percent of you want Bolton to testify. The majority of you want witnesses. You don't get that without having Republicans and Democrats feeling it.

Do what the Constitution demands, do what the people say, do justice. All right, that's the argument.

Congress was supposed to get some answers today on the Iran threat. The Administration bailed on the briefing. Why? BOLO, next.

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CUOMO: All right, BOLO, Be On the Look-Out, the Trump administration, dodging yet another situation, to provide justification for taking out Iranian General Soleimani.

They abruptly canceled four classified Congressional briefings, hardly any explanation, two from the State Department, one from the Pentagon, and another from the FBI.

POTUS and his aides keep saying they had to do it. They have the proof. They have the Intel, specific to four U.S. embassies, said the President. Even his own Defense Secretary and State Department officials, who oversee embassy security, weren't made aware of any of that. They said they didn't see the proof.

Why do they lie, deny, and defy? Show the proof.

Have a very good night. Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon, now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: You know why they wanted. Wow, right on the nose, look at you. That was great.

CUOMO: Felt good.