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Interview with Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen; Neo- Nazis Arrested Ahead of Virginia Gun Rights Rally; SAG Awards This Weekend May Signal Oscars' Voting Trends. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 17, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00] BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: -- service members apparently had these types of injuries. And they now have been, in the subsequent days, evacuated.

TEXT: U.S. Troops Injured in Iran Missile Attack at al-Asad Air Base in Iraq: Eleven injured; Eight sent to medical center in Germany; Three sent to Kuwait; Several treated for concussion symptoms; All service members in blast vicinity screened for traumatic brain injury

STARR: Eight of the 11 have gone to the U.S. military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany, three over to Kuwait because, of course, these are places that have the proper medical facilities to fully evaluate them and care for them. The Pentagon says it believes they all will be able to return to duty.

But the question is, you know, is how soon did the Pentagon really let this all be known. No indication that it was anything other than -- perhaps the kind word is "bureaucracy" that took them a while. It was not until late last night that the Pentagon, the U.S. military put out a full statement with all of the details -- Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Understood. Barbara Starr, always on top of it. Thanks very much.

STARR: Sure.

SCIUTTO: With me now is William Cohen. He served as President Clinton's secretary of Defense. He's also a former Republican senator and U.S. representative. Mr. Cohen -- do I still call you Senator? -- thanks very much for coming on.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I respond to anything.

SCIUTTO: On this issue -- because this is a serious one -- I mean, is this a case of the Pentagon misleading here? or is the bigger issue here that the Iranian missile strike was a nearer miss than originally advertised by the Trump administration? Should that be the concern?

COHEN: That should be a concern. And, frankly, I think that the Iranians have a much greater capability -- this is one thing they have maintained, that they didn't to kill --

SCIUTTO: Right. COHEN: -- Americans, just to send a signal.

When we saw that the attack -- the -- the Saudi oil facilities, great precision. They were able to land their missiles exactly where they wanted them. So it lends some credibility, saying, we could have put them on -- on X, Y, and Z. We didn't, we wanted to send you a message.

The other thing is, I think we tend to minimize when we say that there were no casualties, when we say it's seven killed or eight killed, 10 wounded. The wounded can be just as serious -- no, they're not dead, but you go out to Walter Reed in Bethesda and see the damage done to them.

We need to start saying, well, yes, there were casualties, they were wounded and they're seriously wounded. And that's something we have to take into account when we ask the men and women to go over there and serve.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. I've met a lot of people who've suffered TBI, traumatic brain injury, from exactly attacks like this, and it's a serious thing.

I want to talk about impeachment because you served as a Republican not only in the House but in the Senate here. What's your reaction when you see the vast majority of Republican senators, frankly -- there's only a handful that say they're open to it -- say I don't see any need to call witnesses or see any new evidence, that was all the House's job, basically I'm ready to move on?

COHEN: Well, John Dean wrote a book called "Blind Ambition" about what took place during the Watergate years. This is a case, I think, of blind loyalty, almost of hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. We don't care what the facts are, we don't care what the evidence is. We made up our mind, we are not going to give any credence or credibility to this process. It's over as far as we're concerned.

I think that's wrong. I think that they will be embarrassed ultimately. More and more information is going to come out that is going to be quite critical of how this has happened and I think we need to go back and focus, what really happened.

Get rid of all of the circus atmosphere that we've been talking about, and think, when the president was running for office as a candidate, he said, Russia, if you're listening --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: -- well, they were. And they helped out.

Then he said, China, are you listening? I'd like your help on Biden. And then he went covertly. Ukraine, I want you to do us a favor though. And then it was all covert.

And the evidence is very clear that he systematically tried to take out those individuals who believe in the rule of law, that this was something very nefarious, this was something done off the books, this was done -- something by his personal attorney, and done in a way that was designed to put extraordinary pressure.

You could say it's a breach of honor on our part if you say, can you help me in my election against Joe Biden -- if Joe Biden's the candidate. But now, you're not going to get any money if you don't. To me, the evidence is very clear. I'd like to see more of it, I'd like to see Lev Parnas -- even though his credibility has been challenged because he's been indicted.

I watched the last two interviews. He has corroborated many of the individuals testifying under oath before the House Intelligence Committee --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: -- so I think that there are a few good men and women that are open to it, and I think that they need to speak up on this and make sure that the witnesses are heard.

SCIUTTO: We'll see. I'm actually not going to play this again because I think it's just -- it's just gratuitous. But you may have seen Republican Senator Martha McSally attacking my colleague and immediately attempting to fundraise off of it. You served in the House and the Senate as a Republican. When you see that kind of language and that kind of vitriol, what's your reaction?

[10:35:03]

COHEN: Comes from the top. The president sets the tone, and he has systematically used demeaning language, inflammatory language, degrading people, calling them names, suggesting that you are an enemy of the state --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: -- you are unpatriotic, you are someone who hates America. So when you have the president of the United States saying that, it filters down to those who support him, saying, if the president can say it, I can say it and I will say it.

It may play well back in Arizona, it may play well with the conservative base. To me, it doesn't play well as far as civil service, public service and being a trustee and a fiduciary of the American people.

SCIUTTO: We have an interesting story in "The Washington Post" out just now that speaks about how this president has spoken to his senior military leaders. And of course, this is a president who has wrapped himself in the banner of the military, described (ph) his generals, et cetera when it has served his interests.

But I want to quote from this piece in "The Washington Post," describing what the president said directly to senior commanders. "You're all losers. You don't know how to win any more." "I wouldn't go to war with you people." "You're a bunch of dopes and babies."

You (ph) talk about the way this president has brought down the national conversation, you served as defense secretary. What's your reaction to that?

COHEN: It's an insult to every man and woman who's ever worn the uniform. The fact is that he didn't wear the uniform, deliberately so.

SCIUTTO: May (ph) have (ph) made a big effort to avoid it.

COHEN: Was it because they were all dopes and babies? They were fighting in a really horrible war in Vietnam. And the notion that he has come in, in the past three years, and now he has fixed a broken military? That's an insult to everybody who's been wearing that uniform.

Was secretary general -- I'm sorry, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, General Mattis, was he a baby? Was he somebody who was broke, I wouldn't fight beside him? I'd go beside Jim Mattis any day of the year, any day of the week to be with Jim Mattis, saying, you've got me, you've got my back.

So I think that's (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: -- generally he's insulting the military. Now, he's claiming, I have rebuilt -- only I could do this --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COHEN: -- I have rebuilt this military in three years. Before I came along, it was all broken, you were all babies, you were all incapable of carrying out the mission. I would take great offense, certainly as secretary of defense, I would take great offense as an American.

SCIUTTO: Senator -- Secretary Cohen, thanks very much for taking the time.

COHEN: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Appreciate it.

Virginia's capital is bracing for what it is concerned would be a dangerous gun rally as the FBI arrests three alleged white supremacists who were planning to be there. We're going to have more on the growing tensions there, the concerns on the ground, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:18]

SCIUTTO: There are three suspected neo-Nazis now under arrest ahead of a gun rights rally in Virginia that is expected to draw thousands of people on the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. A temporary gun ban, now set to take effect on state capitol grounds.

Tonight, a judge (ph) upholding the order issued by the government, who says he wants to prevent a repeat of the deadly violence in Charlottesville -- I'm sure you remember -- in 2017.

CNN's Jason Carroll joins me now with more on this controversy. So, Jason, what are you learning and will this gun ban order on state grounds stand up?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now it's in question because what you have is, you have several gun rights groups, Jim, who are appealing that judge's order. They say it unfairly targets what they say are law-abiding citizens who want to carry guns.

So what you have is groups such as Gun Owners of America Inc., the Virginia Citizens Defense League as well as three private individuals who have now filed that appeal.

But, look, you've got the governor, Governor Northam, who says this temporary ban is necessary. That's why he says he declared the state of emergency. He says, as you remember during that briefing, that it's based on what he called credible threats from out-of-state groups, some militia groups, some white supremacists.

And then you remember what we had from the FBI, the FBI arresting, as you mentioned, those three individuals who are alleged white supremacists, who were -- what they say -- were planning to attend this event.

So that's why you've got the governor declaring this state of emergency, why he says this temporary ban is necessary. But then on the other side, you've got these law-abiding gun rights groups who say, look, you're unfairly targeting us.

So right now we're at a stalemate. But for now it looks as if, at least for now, that that temporary ban, still very much in place, awaiting to see what happens in the court -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Jason, was it deliberately chosen to have this rally on Martin Luther King Day? Is there a connection there?

CARROLL: That seems -- well, look, it's part of a lobbying day that the state has, happened to fall on the day of MLK Day. But obviously, you've got white supremacist group, you look at some of the chatter online, they know it's MLK Day.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARROLL: They know that it creates a lot of tension. This is what a lot of these groups want.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CARROLL: This is part of the intelligence also that the governor's office was receiving.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Sometimes the group, they want to spark confrontation. Jason Carroll, good to have you on the story.

[10:44:51] Well, something much less serious now. I've got to come clean. My name is Jim Sciutto, I'm a New York Mets fan. Feels good to get that off my chest. There is some Mets news today. In true Mets fashion, they fired their manager before he managed a single game. We're going to explain why -- there were genuine questions about integrity here. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: In a matter of minutes, President Trump, set to celebrate LSU's national championship team at the White House. Andy Scholes has more in this morning's "Bleacher Report." It's going to be quite a moment for that team.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: It certainly will be, Jim. You know, President Trump actually went to two LSU games this season: one in Tuscaloosa, the other in New Orleans. He got a huge ovation at both of those games.

This time, though, LSU, coming to him. The Tigers made the trip up to the nation's capital yesterday, had a nice team dinner at the Kennedy Center and then went on a tour of Washington, D.C. This morning, the team was at the National Museum of African-American History and Culture, and then made their way over to the White House.

The team has arrived. They posted a picture of the national championship trophy and Joe Burrow's Heisman, sitting right outside of the White House. And President Trump, tweeting earlier this hour he was excited to see the team.

TEXT: Donald J. Trump: Getting ready to meet the LSU Tigers, the National Champions. Great Coach, great Team, great School. Very exciting!

SCHOLES: All right. Another day, another turn in the sign-stealing scandal in baseball. Social media is buzzing, alleging that the Astros used wearable concealed devices to notify them when certain pitches were coming.

[10:50:02]

Now, Major League Ball tells CNN in a statement that they explored wearable devices during the investigation of the Astros, but found no evidence to substantiate it. That certainly didn't stop Twitter from pretty much going crazy over this, many people pointing to how Jose Altuve was pleading with teammates that he didn't want his jersey ripped off before he touched home plate after that walk-off home run to beat the Yankees in the ALCS.

Agent Scott Boras releasing a statement to "The New York Post" on Altuve's behalf, saying, I have never worn an electronic device in my performance as a Major League player.

And in Commissioner Rob Manfred's report, released on Monday, he stated the investigation revealed no violations of the sign-stealing policy by the Astros in the 2019 season or 2019 post-season, which is when that Altuve home run occurred.

But the fallout from this scandal continuing yesterday, as the Mets and new manager Carlos Beltran mutually agreeing to part ways. Beltran was the only player named in Manfred's report on the Astros' sign- stealing scandal. He didn't even end up managing a game for the Mets.

In a statement, Beltran said, in part, "I've always taken pride in being a leader and doing things the right way, and in this situation, I failed. I'm very sorry."

Beltran joins the Astros' A.J. Hinch and Alex Cora to be fired as a result of this scandal. And, Jim, Major League Baseball says they're still continuing to investigate the Red Sox' use -- illegal use, I should say -- of technology to steal signs during that 2018 World Series season, so this is clearly not over.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Spring training's right around the corner, three teams don't have managers. And my Mets in particular --

SCHOLES: My Astros. I'm right there with you --

SCIUTTO: -- don't have a manager.

SCHOLES: -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: I know. Goodness. All right. Well, Andy Scholes, good to have you on the story.

SCHOLES: All right.

SCIUTTO: Well, the film "Joker" has overcome controversy to become an awards season favorite. Now nominated for 11 Academy Awards. We will get a preview this weekend of how much Oscar gold the "Joker" takes home. Stephanie Elam joins me now from L.A. on the Screen Actors Guild Awards.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jim. Yes, so for the reason why that we say this is sort of a predictor is because the actors are the largest bloc of voters for the Academy. And this is all about the Screen Actors Guild, and so this will give you a little preview of what we should see this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brad Pitt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brad Pitt --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brad Pitt.

ELAM (voice-over): This year's best bets, like Brad Pitt --

BRAD PITT, ACTOR, ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD: Anybody who accidentally kills anybody in a fight, they go to jail.

ELAM (voice-over): -- and Renee Zellweger as Judy Garland will get their first major Oscar test at the Screen Actors Guild Awards, since these voters also make up the largest bloc of Oscar voters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How was it for you, taking on this role and working with Tarantino?

PITT: It's good. My mom didn't like the language, but --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- violence?

PITT: You know what, she didn't mention the violence, funny enough.

ELAM (voice-over): Pitt's "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" will go head-to-head with "The Irishman." Once both Oscar frontrunners --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood."

ELAM (voice-over): -- "Once Upon a Time" has grabbed the momentum so far. But the SAG Awards could bring a "Parasite" upset. The Korean film is paving its way to history, and could be the first international film to win a Best Picture Oscar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it OK with you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that just shows that "Parasite" has overcome the language barrier and the barrier of subtitles.

ELAM (voice-over): It's a hill "Roma" couldn't climb last year. But the Academy keeps growing its international base.

SCOTT FEINBERG, AWARDS COLUMNIST, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: Things that might have previously deterred the Academy, like subtitles, may not bother as many people who are used to watching even American movies with subtitles.

ELAM (voice-over): Diversity or lack thereof is a running theme this awards season, with the Oscars shutting out both female director candidates and many actors of color.

SAG breaks that mold for nominations for performers including Lupita Nyong'o in "Us" and "Harriet"'s Cynthia Erivo.

CYNTHIA ERIVO, ACTRESS, HARRIET: Harriet Tubman.

I think there aren't enough roles for us yet, and I think that that causes upset.

ELAM (voice-over): SAG continues the Robert De Niro snub, his disappointing awards season evident when he finally took the stage at the Critics' Choice Awards.

ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: I wasn't expecting it, frankly, at this point, but it's great.

ELAM (voice-over): Still ,the SAG awards come with consolation: De Niro will get a lifetime achievement award. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: Now, on the TV side, one show people thought would be nominated would be "Succession," it's not in there. A lot of people keeping their eyes on this last bow for "Game of Thrones." And then on the comedy side, you've got "Fleabag" that people are looking at, we've got the new cast of "Crown," and also "The Morning Show," which has three nominations for actors there, Jim. So we will all see on Sunday.

SCIUTTO: "Game of Thrones," don't forget it. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much.

ELAM: Cannot.

[10:54:37]

SCIUTTO: President Trump, adding to his legal team just days before opening statements begin in the trial in the Senate of a sitting president. Stay with CNN. I'm Jim Sciutto. "AT THIS HOUR" with Kate Bolduan starts right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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