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CNN Live Event/Special

Indicted Giuliani Associate in Washington to "Watch Trial"; Sekulow Says Senators Can Ignore Bolton Book Revelations; Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) Discusses Troop TBI & Trump Dismissing It, Impeachment, Reaction to Calling Hunter Biden as Witness, Bolton Book Revelations, Need for Other Witnesses & Documents; Bolton Book Revelations Could Pull A.G. Barr into Impeachment Trial; Trump Rips "Fired" Bolton as Senate Considers Him as Witness; Trump's Pattern of Turning on Those He Hires. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 29, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And were they just there to essentially try to get attention on the idea of witnesses or particularly on him being a witness?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So I asked all of those questions. First of all, they said that their aim here was to raise awareness for witnesses. But it also seemed as though they plan on revealing more information.

You know, we followed up on questions, Parnas saying that he had information on certain Senators and their involvement. When we asked him what it was, he said he would tell the media later today.

When we asked him about Marie Yovanovitch and his relationship, when he started trying to have this smear effort to push her out, he said again that he would reveal that today. So getting some indication that he plans on talking to the media.

I specifically asked, is this part of a circus. You're getting a lot of criticism for this. And the lawyer said, no, they were, again, just here for the fact that they wanted to raise awareness for these witnesses to be called.

And Parnas said over and over again that he believes that he and John Bolton are the most important witnesses, that he has more to say.

We knew that there were more recordings. We have learned now from the attorney that those were all submitted to the House Intelligence Committee.

When I asked if they were going to release any of these recordings to the public before that vote on Friday for witnesses, they kind of shrugged. They said they hadn't decided yet.

They said the most critical information was in the audio recording we had already heard but there was more evidence out there and they really wanted to be able to present that and share that with those Senators.

COOPER: All right, Kristen Holmes. Kristen, thanks very much.

Revelations about John Bolton's upcoming book continue to hang over the Senate chamber. President Trump's personal lawyer, Jay Sekulow, argued that Senators can ignore it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY SEKULOW, WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Responding to an unpublished manuscript that maybe some reporters have an idea maybe what it says. I mean, that's what the evidence -- if you want to call that evidence. I don't know what you'd call that. I'd call it inadmissible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining me now, Tim Naftali, Laura Coates and Ross Garber.

Laura, is it inadmissible?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The idea of admissibility is an odd concept when you have the person who wrote the book available to testify. Normally, you talk about admissibility when you don't have the person to be cross examined on it.

When you say this book is irrelevant, that's fine, we can streamline the ideas of not having it be tested for cross examination purposes by calling the person who wrote it.

In a way, he painted himself into a corner as to a more compelling reason as to why he should be there.

COOPER: Ross, there have been some Senators, Lankford, one of them, who suggested the manuscript should be available for Senators to read in a classified setting. Obviously, that does not allow the public to immediately, at this point, know what information there is.

ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I thought it was very interesting of Senator Lankford and even Senator Lindsey Graham said that the Senate should be able to look at this transcript -- at the manuscript.

It's been submitted to the White House for classification review. So that raises a concern about whether it can be public. But you're exactly right.

I think there are two questions. One is, will the Senate be able to take a look at it even in this classified setting. And then the second question is, will at least those portions about this Ukraine issue become public.

You know, I think especially with Graham and Lankford, there's pressure on both things. Once the Senate gets it, it's going to be hard to hold it in secret and not disclose at least the relevant portions of it.

COOPER: Also, Tim, there's nothing stopping John Bolton from sitting down and doing an interview.

Obviously, you know, I don't know how much this is a consideration for him, but he needs -- he wants to sell books, no doubt, or at least his publisher does, so he would probably want to hold any interviews until the book is actually available to buy, although, I think you can preorder it already on Amazon.

There's nothing really stopping him from coming forward.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: No. I think the term of art is rollout. This is one of the best literary rollouts imaginable. He's building interest.

There's nothing stopping him.

What I think is so significant now is how the discussion has changed. You've got defenders of the president who are now asking to see more information. That's a big change, Lankford and others.

Just three days ago, they were saying how witnesses are unnecessary, new documents are unnecessary. Now they recognize they need to see more of this information.

The Bolton revelations in the Times" have absolutely upended this whole part of the trial. Where we go from here, we don't know.

But the very fact that Senators who are defending the president and defending Mitch McConnell realize that they have to see some more information is a huge opening for the House managers.

COOPER: Attorney General Bill Barr is now in the spotlight as we learn Bolton included their private conversations in his book.

[11:35:58]

Plus, as veterans call on the president to apologize over his comments about head injuries. We're learning the number of U.S. troops hurt in the Iran strike has risen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:02]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're a little over an hour away from the start of day eight of the impeachment trial. And today marks the beginning of a very important question-and-answer period.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Also today, the Pentagon is now saying that 50 U.S. servicemembers suffered concussions or traumatic brain injuries after Iran attacked the Iraqi airbase where they were stationed earlier this month. That is a significant increase from the 34 injuries the Pentagon acknowledged last week.

President Trump has referred to these injuries as, quote, "not very serious," saying he heard some troops had, quote, "headaches."

Joining us now from Capitol Hill, Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth, of Illinois.

Senator Duckworth, we'll talk about impeachment in a second. But first, you're a combat veteran. I'm wondering about your reaction to the news that it's actually 50 U.S. servicemembers being treated for concussions and TBI in addition to, of course, your reaction to what the president has said about these wounds.

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Well, I'm appalled by what the president has said. Those few short remarks that he made undid a lot of work that the V.A. and the DOD and veterans community has been working on for years now, well over a decade on traumatic brain injury.

In fact, about 30 percent of the injuries that occurred in Iraq during my time there in the early 2000s were traumatic brain injuries.

So I'm just appalled that the president, the commander-in-chief, would say something like that at a time we're trying to get help to all of our troops.

TAPPER: TBI, obviously, very serious. What's your reaction to the fact that there are 50 servicemembers who have been treated for concussions and TBI?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I'm not surprised, unfortunately, because this is a very common injury and it's a hidden injury. I'm glad that they have been diagnosed. I'm glad that they're going to get the help and long- term monitoring that they need.

But of course, any time one of our servicemembers is injured, I am very concerned about their safety and their security.

BLITZER: Several of those combat troops have been transferred, first, from Iraq to Germany, and now here to Washington to the Walter Reed Medical Center.

Let's talk about the impeachment trial, Senator. Your colleague from West Virginia, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, said he'd be open to having Hunter Biden testify. Would you accept what some are describing as a witness swap, John Bolton for Hunter Biden?

DUCKWORTH: I'm not in this for a political tit for tat. I'm in this to figure out what the truth is and whether the president is guilty or innocent.

I think the House managers have presented a pretty strong case for the president's guilt. I would think that his side would want to have witnesses that would be brought forward, who could speak to his innocence and present some sort of a case to show that he is innocent of the charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

You know, I'm on the jury. I'm trying to figure out what the evidence says. A lot of this evidence is being withheld from me.

So the witnesses that come forward, I would like them to be relevant to the trial and that's all I'm focused on in terms of who we should bring forward. BLITZER: The president today asked why his former national security

advisor, John Bolton, didn't come out sooner with his claim that the president directly linked Ukraine's security aid from the United States to the Biden investigation.

What do you make of the fact that Bolton, according to the president, didn't share this concern with him directly? Although, we know based on sworn testimony from so many other Trump administration officials that Bolton complained about it rather routinely?

DUCKWORTH: Well, that's the thing, right? We're looking at this trial and on one hand I'm being presented with evidence that shows all these people did speak up, did show concern and, time after time, the White House counsel or the administration suppressed those concerns moving forward.

So I would love for the president's team to come forward and show us where Mr. Bolton did not speak with the president, where the president did address any of these concerns.

But I've not seen any evidence that would point to the president's innocence at this point.

TAPPER: Senator, one last question from us. It's Jake Tapper here.

Today is the day of questioning, tomorrow, too. U.S. Senators get to submit questions. The chief justice of the United States, John Roberts, will read them. And either the House impeachment managers or the president's defense team will respond.

Are there any questions that you have submitted or are going to submit? If so, can you tell us what one or two of them are?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I have submitted my questions. They're largely focused on national security. The state of Illinois, my state, is in a partnership for peace relationship with the country of Poland. So for the last 30 years, the Illinois National Guard has been training the Polish military.

And should the Russians surge across Ukraine, our first ally that we are in a mutual defense treaty with is Poland. It would be Illinois troops that could be sent to help rappel any type of a Russian aggression.

So my questions are all related to what happens in terms of national security, in terms of implications if we continue to not provide Ukraine with the support that they need.

Remember that the president still has not granted a White House meeting with the president of Ukraine. So all of my questions have really focused on the national security implications of what's happening here.

[11:45:09]

TAPPER: Senator Tammy Duckworth, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

DUCKWORTH: Thank you.

TAPPER: Former National Security Advisor John Bolton's book could present problems for Attorney General Bill Barr as well, theoretically. Why he could be pulled into a political fight that he has so far managed to avoid.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Former National Security Advisor John Bolton's new book and what it says about U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr may pose new problems for the nation's top prosecutor. It might pull him into the impeachment trial that he's been able to avoid for months now.

[11:50:04]

Evan Perez, our CNN senior justice correspondent, is here with me reporting on that.

Evan, this has to do with credibility?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. Everyone knows John Bolton wants to be part of this impeachment trial and this controversy surrounding the president. Bill Barr decidedly trying to avoid it. He's been successful so far.

But the accounts of what Bolton says were conversations with the attorney general while the two of them were still in the Trump administration could change that. Bolton says he and Barr both shared concerns about the president sort of promising favors to the leaders of Turkey and China.

They apparently had a conversation in the days after the Ukraine call on July 25th, in which Bolton says he warned Barr his name had come up on that call. That changes -- that's a different timeline from what the Justice Department says when Barr learned first about this call back in August.

We'll see whether or not Bolton becomes a witness in this trial. Certainly, it will be his word against the attorney general. Because the Justice Department is pushing back hard on what Bolton said, his accounts of these conversations the two men had.

I should mention, these are men that go back -- their friends from back in the Reagan administration, so it's a remarkable turn of events for the two of them.

COOPER: Fascinating.

Evan Perez, thanks very much.

As we await the question-and-answer phase of the impeachment trial, the president says he hires the best people. There's a pattern, though, of the president always turning on those very people. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:56:34]

BLITZER: President Trump is now blasting his former national security advisor, John Bolton, as Republican Senators consider whether to call him to testify in the president's impeachment trial.

President Trump firing off a series of tweets this morning, including these two, saying, and I'm quoting the president now, "For a guy who couldn't get approved for ambassador of the U.N. years ago, couldn't get anything since, begged me for a non-Senate-approved job, which I gave him, despite many saying, don't do it, sir."

"Takes the job, mistakenly says Libyan model on TV, and many more mistakes of judgment, gets fired. Because, frankly, if I listened to him, we would be in World War VI right now. And goes out immediately and writes a nasty, untrue book. All classified, national security."

A direct tweet from the president's tweet earlier this morning.

TAPPER: That's accurate about him not being able to get confirmed as U.N. ambassador.

BLITZER: What's accurate?

TAPPER: Because of Democrat objections, not Republican ones.

This, of course, is in response to the new reporting of the upcoming book, "The Room Where It Happened, A White House Memoir," accusing President Trump of explicitly linking security assistance for a request for individuals to be investigate Democrats as well as a debunked conspiracy theory about Ukrainian election interference as opposed to Russian election interference.

It's a direct contradiction of President Trump's claim that he withheld aid just to root out corruption and for no other reasons, no quid pro quo.

President Trump's former Chief of Staff John Kelly now says that he believes Bolton's account and that he thinks Bolton should be allowed to testify.

CNN politics reporter and editor-at-large, Chris Cillizza, is here with more with this.

Chris, this is a major shift in turn by President Trump towards Bolton, a conservative icon until a couple of days ago, we should note. And now the prospect of him testifying.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER & CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes, Jake, look, I think the lesson to be learned is Donald Trump turns on everyone eventually and now John Bolton is in there.

Wolf read the tweets. Let's go to another tweet. Not that long ago, November 2019. "John Bolton is a patriot and may know that I held back the money from Ukraine because it is considered a corrupt country." Yet, he was with John Bolton as recently as November 2019? What's

changed? John Bolton implicating him or suggesting a quid pro quo has changed. And therefore, Donald Trump's opinion changed.

You mentioned John Kelly. John Kelly said he believes John Bolton. John Kelly has been through the winger. Former White House chief of staff. Obviously, replaced. President Trump loved the idea that John Kelly had been in the military, loved his orderliness. Well, he got sick of him and turned on him, too.

"I worked with John Kelly and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great president." That was a statement by Stephanie Grisham, the White House press secretary. "A great genius of our great president."

Jake, John Kelly, John Bolton, these are not isolated incidents. This is just a few. Rex Tillerson, Donald Trump said the "crown jewel" of his initial cabinet as secretary of state. "Dumb as a rock and lazy as hell."

Steve Bannon, one of the architects of Trump's victory, "Sloppy."

Jeff Sessions, one of Donald Trump's biggest advocates, biggest surrogates as attorney general. "He should be ashamed of himself."

And Michael Cohen, long-time fixer for Donald trump. "Bad lawyer and fraudster."

Look, there's plenty more here. One thing I want to note, not only does he turn on everyone, but we're talking not about small jobs, we're talking about secretary of state, secretary of defense, in Jim Mattis, national security advisor.

[12:00:05]

He trusted these people with some of our nation's most important tasks and now, suddenly, saying they were always bad.