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Senate Appears Poised to Reject Impeachment Witnesses and Acquit President Trump; World Health Organization Declares Coronavirus Outbreak a Global Health Emergency; Lakers Play Tonight for the First Time Since Kobe's Death; Interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) on Impeachment Trial. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 31, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto on Capitol Hill this morning.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. We're glad you're with us.

A big day ahead. The Senate set to gavel in and barring a major surprise they are likely not get out until the president is acquitted after months of investigation and testimony. We are hours away from a vote on Senate witnesses. Potentially a very abrupt end to the president's impeachment trial.

SCIUTTO: Key moment last night, key swing voter, Senator Lamar Alexander, who is retiring, he gave an official no on witnesses, seemingly dealing a final blow to the Democrats, but he did admit something that many, really the vast majority of Republicans will not. The Democrats proved their case that the president applied pressure on Ukraine for political favor and that that was inappropriate. He just doesn't think that's impeachable.

HARLOW: All right. Threading a needle there. This morning, Mitt Romney says he's a yes on calling witnesses. Susan Collins expected to join him. What about Senator Lisa Murkowski? She is set to make her announcement on that sometime this morning. It could be any moment. But even if she joins the yes column, that still leaves the Senate with a 50-50 split.

SCIUTTO: And it leaves this key question. Will the chief justice who is presiding over the trial vote to break a tie? All indications are no. That would make this the first Senate impeachment trial in the history of the country to end without hearing from a single witness.

Let's begin here on Capitol Hill with congressional reporter Lauren Fox.

Lauren, you've have been speaking to Lisa Murkowski's team this morning. Do you have any sense of where she goes on this?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't have any guidance on exactly when she will release this statement. And we don't have any guidance on which way she's learning. Now yesterday we did see her enter the hideaway with Lamar Alexander during that dinner break. Obviously highly anticipated after Lamar Alexander asked his very first question in the Senate impeachment trial.

Kind of a big and surprising moment because I'm told Alexander usually eats dinner with the rest of the conference. The fact that those two stole away to his hideaway, a significant moment. Now today, you can expect to have four hours of debate over this question of witnesses. Even though we know which direction it's headed. Make sure to be watching that because things can always shift at the last minute.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

FOX: After that, there will be the vote on witnesses. And then it's a little bit unclear how soon they will be able to move to acquittal because Democrats could drag this out over some procedural votes for a period of time. We still don't have a great sense of whether or not they plan to do that. Whether or not they want to force the Republicans to vote in the dead of night to acquit the president, whether or not they want to do it in primetime. It's still a major question mark -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Right. And this trial has been full of some surprises, although I suppose the end result at this point fairly clear.

Lauren Fox, please stay with us. A lot more to discuss. Poppy?

HARLOW: All right. So let's get the mood at the White House this morning as this whole thing seems to be winding down. Let's go to CNN White House correspondent John Harwood.

Is the president feeling emboldened this morning?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's safe to say the president is feeling relieved at Lamar Alexander's decision. There remains, as Lauren indicated, a tiny frisson of uncertainty around what happens especially if you get a 50-50 tie in the Senate, what's John Roberts going do to do? But Donald Trump is a bottom-line kind of guy, and the bottom line is we know that he's going to be acquitted.

But I think we have to recognize that it was only a partial victory that Lamar Alexander gave him. Lamar Alexander said in that statement the whistleblower was right. Adam Schiff was right. Jay Sekulow was wrong. It's not a hoax. It's not a witch hunt. He did it. And that is a significant statement. But having done all that, he gave Democrats the facts. He would not give them his vote, and that tells you something about the enormous pressure for conformity within the modern Republican Party.

HARLOW: Yes. I think especially from a senator who is not running -- you know, not running again.

Let's talk about all of this. Renato is with us, Renato Mariotti on the legal side. Lauren Fox and John Harwood, stay with us, guys. So, Renato, let me ask you about the chief justice here because he's

got a big decision to make. And that decision made maybe even more interesting by what Senator Elizabeth Warren made him read yesterday and that was her question about whether or not he's essentially going to look bad by presiding over a trial with no witnesses. It was a little awkward when he had to read that question out about himself.

Is there any chance that Roberts would vote to break a tie here, do you think, Renato?

RENATO MARIOTTI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, certainly there's always a chance, but I would be very surprised if he did that. The chief justice represents an entire branch of government, the judiciary. Judiciary that is, you know, obviously dependent on nominations being confirmed by the Senate and funding from the Senate. He wants to seem completely independent. Completely out of the fray. Not siding with either side.

I think the wise move from Chief Justice Roberts is to not break a tie and to just essentially say that he's not going to get involved in this. And there is precedent for that.

[09:05:06]

Chief Justice Chase in the first impeachment trial ultimately broke some ties and not others. I think Chief Justice Roberts is going to sit out.

SCIUTTO: Lauren, you've been speaking to all the players in this in both parties. But when you speak to Republicans, is the essential driving force here, concern, fear really about the price you pay politically, for straying from the party line, from the president's line? Because the president has made very clear, we've seen that with a whole host of people. Just talk to Bob Corker, talk to Jeff Flake. I mean, is that the driving force here?

FOX: Well, I think it's a little bit two parts. It's that first part that you just talked about, and it's the second part which is that ultimately, they don't have the votes to actually remove him from office.

SCIUTTO: Right.

FOX: So this fight over witnesses becomes one in which eventually the outcome is exactly the same as the outcome that you would have perhaps at midnight tonight, right? Even if you draw this out for another week, two weeks, months, who knows? And so a lot of Republicans have been very receptive to the argument from the majority leader and leadership behind closed doors which is, OK, even if everything is true that we have heard from the House Democrats, does that rise to an impeachable offense?

And if the answer is no, then why are we going to drag this out even more? Now we can argue about whether or not that is a politically convenient argument.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

FOX: But it is certainly one that Republicans have been receptive to. And we should add on top of it. We talk a lot about Susan Collins. She's a moderate up for re-election in 2020. We don't talk a lot about the fact that Joni Ernst has been at the mics every break defending the president. She's also up for re-election.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

FOX: We haven't heard from Cory Gardner. And behind closed doors, the case that they're making to colleagues is, let us go back out on the campaign trail, let us continue doing our work to actually get re- elected.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

FOX: This is just dragging things out. We're not getting anything done.

SCIUTTO: You know, it's interesting, Poppy. Republicans have successfully won the kind of rhetorical war here, too, to say drag it out. I mean, it's been a two-week trial. I mean, that's less than half the length of the Clinton trial and yet.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: That's become part of the lexicon.

HARLOW: That is very, very true. And it seems like that argument behind closed doors really swayed some of these Republicans like you're hurting your more vulnerable members potentially by dragging this thing out.

John Harwood, let's talk about what we heard overnight from 30-year Republican Senate veteran John Warner of Virginia who said, you know, remember, this isn't just the president on trial. This is the institution. This is the chamber. This is the Senate on trial and he is backing a call for witnesses.

Is that just someone of a Republican Party of past and not the party of Trump, and someone who is not up for re-election? What does it tell you?

HARWOOD: That's exactly what it is, Poppy. And you have to remember, trial for the institution, yes. But you can't ignore the fact the Republican Party itself feels that it is on trial and it is under siege. Democrats have won six of the last seven popular votes in presidential elections. The Republican base is an overwhelmingly white base. It's become increasingly a blue collar base. It is shrinking as a percentage of the population.

And that sense that -- of the Republican Party in danger of being overrun by cultural and economic changes in the country produces enormous pressure to unite, to stand in solidarity. Donald Trump is counting on that. And it is powerful enough, even in situations like this, where the fact pattern is very clear going in the other direction. Republicans, you can bet on them sticking together far more often than not.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Renato Mariotti, the day after Robert Mueller's testimony on the hill, seen as a victory for the president. The president had his call with Volodymyr Zelensky. The day after an acquittal in the Senate, do you see a President Trump as emboldened in this election year to accept, seek, pressure for foreign help, that all bets are off at this point?

MARIOTTI: I think that's the obvious implication. I mean, what is the limit on his power? What's the check on his authority? Really what you -- the message you get here is that no matter what he does, the Senate isn't even going to get to the bottom of the matter. The House was completely stonewalled by him. You know, he got away with it. And I don't really see any effective check that's being put on him by Congress.

I mean, the House has done what it -- you know, what it could do, but ultimately it was stonewalled. And the Senate is essentially saying, Lamar Alexander said this is inappropriate and we're not even going to look into it. And as new facts emerge, Jim, I think that we're not even going to find out exactly what happened.

HARWOOD: But, guys, I do think that the check on the president is the one that Lamar Alexander referred to. There's going to be election in November. It is quite possible that this vote will serve to augment Democratic arguments in the election and make it more difficult for Republicans to defend Trump, to defend themselves, to defend what happened.

[09:10:07]

May end up helping Democrats in Senate races as well as in the presidential race.

SCIUTTO: We'll see. There are political risks on both sides, no question.

HARWOOD: Yes.

SCIUTTO: John Harwood, Lauren Fox, Renato Mariotti, thanks so much this morning.

Still to come this hour, the president's impeachment trial might be wrapping up, but should we be bracing for some serious political aftershocks? That very question.

HARLOW: Also the deadly coronavirus now a global health emergency as China marks the most deaths in a single day since this outbreak began.

We'll take you live to Beijing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: We may be entering the final hours of a Senate trial of the president with no witnesses and a likely acquittal.

With me now is one of the senators sitting in judgment. Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.

Thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT): Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you first. Is the mystery gone at this point? We're going to await to hear from Senator Lisa Murkowski. Let's say she votes yes on witnesses, that leaves us at 50-50. If you get there, do you expect the Chief Justice to decide either way or is this question done?

[09:15:00]

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): The likelihood is slim that the Chief Justice would break a tie. Not unprecedented for a Chief Justice in an impeachment trial to break a tie. It happened in the --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

BLUMENTHAL: Andrew Johnson case with Chief Justice Chase. And I think there's a very powerful argument by the way as a former United States Supreme Court law clerk and a prosecutor. I think there's a real interest in justice here that could prompt this Chief Justice to say, I want a fair, full proceeding with witnesses and documents which he knows well is essential to a fair trial. But I think the likelihood is that he will let the tie vote stand, if there is one, and it will go against further proceedings.

SCIUTTO: You heard Senator Lamar Alexander, your Republican colleague last night make a really remarkable argument. He said in his words, I'm not paraphrasing here, that the Democrats proved their case, that the president applied this pressure on Ukraine for political favor, and that it's inappropriate, but not impeachable. What's your response to that argument?

BLUMENTHAL: You know, as a prosecutor and trial lawyer, I feel a little bit like it's jury nullification, where the jury concludes the crime was done, but it decides to in effect disregard the law. Lamar Alexander is saying that, the proper legal result in effect is a guilty verdict. But the election upcoming will potentially produce the same thing. It's for the American people to decide.

What most disappoints me is that, he's deciding against further evidence, more witnesses and documents. Firsthand direct knowledge, people who were in the room with the president of the United States like John Bolton and Mick Mulvaney. John Bolton said it was a drug deal. Mick Mulvaney said it was a quid pro quo --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

BLUMENTHAL: And the American people deserve to hear that kind of truth-telling. SCIUTTO: The day after Robert Mueller testified on the Hill, and gave

what the president and many Republicans viewed as sort of a free pass there or didn't have the impact as expected, the president had this phone call with Volodymyr Zelensky. The day after his likely acquittal in the Senate, do you -- are you concerned that the president would be emboldened to do this again, to seek, accept or even apply pressure for foreign help in the election?

BLUMENTHAL: I think that is a really key question, Jim. In my view is the danger going forward is that the guard rails will be removed. The president now feels in effect legally unleashed. He has said before, Article 2 gives him the "power to do anything I want", a quote, and now, he will in effect be, he thinks, vindicated. In fact, this trial is no vindication because it was really no trial. No witnesses. No documents. No real evidence, although the case is overwhelming that he corruptly abused his trust for his personal gain.

He may well feel vindicated, and he's already said he can obstruct justice, he can impound funds, disregard Congress, stonewall oversight and potentially even obstruct justice along with other disregard for the law. And America really is an ideal for other countries. I think that point has been made very vividly and powerfully in this trial --

SCIUTTO: OK --

BLUMENTHAL: And I fear very much that the president will see himself as a buddy of autocrats around the world, as one who can emulate --

SCIUTTO: Right --

BLUMENTHAL: That kind of --

SCIUTTO: That kind of --

BLUMENTHAL: Monarchial power.

SCIUTTO: OK, so off to Iowa. The first votes cast in the 2020 election, Americans have a choice, and for Democrats, it's a choice of who can challenge the president and beat the president. Who is that candidate in your view?

BLUMENTHAL: I think it could be any one of the candidates now in the race. I think any one of them potentially could beat Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: Who is the strongest?

BLUMENTHAL: And we'll see beginning very shortly. I haven't endorsed any. Some are my colleagues. I think very highly of all my colleagues. And I think that the American people are going to react very badly to this result. The leader of the Senate, Mitch McConnell, has made a short-term political calculation. There will be a long-term cost, and I think it will be a political cost, but also sadly, and unfortunately, a cost to the legacies of the folks who deny the American people a full, fair proceeding here.

[09:20:00] SCIUTTO: We'll see a measure of that very soon. Senator Blumenthal, thanks so much for joining the program this morning.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Poppy, back to you.

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Yes, important perspective. OK, the World Health Organization is declaring the deadly coronavirus a global health emergency as the first human-to-human transmission of the virus is reported here in the United States. We're going to take you to the epicenter. We're going to take you to China, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, welcome back. The State Department this morning is warning Americans against traveling to China completely. This is as the World Health Organization declares the coronavirus a global emergency as it continues to spread. Officials confirm the first cases in the U.K., in Finland and in Russia.

[09:25:00]

Two hundred and thirteen people have now died, nearly 10,000 have been infected around the world. The CDC also confirmed the first person-to- person transmission right here in the United States.

SCIUTTO: That's right, wash your hands. That's what we're hearing from doctors. CNN's David Culver joins us now from Beijing. David, tell us what the latest signs are from China. Are they able to keep this under control or is it still spreading there?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim and Poppy, they still have this massive containment effort that they're putting forth as a very public display of their efforts. And it's interesting if you watch state media. We've been monitoring for example "CCTV", the state broadcaster here, really, the flagship newscast. And if you watch, you'll see hospitals going up, the two in particular, the rapid construction.

You'll also see video like this, deployment of some of the medical personnel, the nurses and doctors who will be going to the front lines. And they've also been showing positive stories of patients being discharged from the hospital. All of which may, in fact, be true. However, this is really what they're focusing on. They're not going to the deeper part of this story which we've delved into by talking firsthand with some of the folks, the nurses and doctors who are within the epicenter of all this, within the city of Wuhan, within Hubei province.

And they tell us that, yes, this supplies may be getting into the periphery of the province, but it's not coming to where it's needed, it's not coming to them directly, and they feel like they're still lacking. They also explained the situation of contracting this virus as medical workers. They say -- one nurse in particular, that 30 of her colleagues at the same hospital have all been infected. Some of them are in intensive care, some of them are home. But either

way, they're not doing their job of taking care of the patients. Meantime, I want to take you to the U.S., that is where we know the Illinois case is being investigated. And this is a first human-to- human transmission, this transmission involving the husband of a woman who traveled here to China, to Wuhan in particular.

The couple are said to be doing OK. And Illinois health authorities are trying to ease any fears of some sort of outbreak. Meantime, the 195 Americans who were part of that evacuation flight, Jim and Poppy, we know that the CDC is expected to get their test results later today.

SCIUTTO: Yes, questions, China initially was trying to silence people who were talking about this virus. Questions about what damage that did in the early stages. David Culver on the ground there, thanks so much. Back here at home, the Los Angeles Lakers are set to take the floor tonight. This for the first time since Sunday's deadly accident that, of course, killed Kobe Bryant and his daughter and seven others.

HARLOW: Andy Scholes has more in the "BLEACHER REPORT" this morning. So, obviously, we should expect a big tribute to him tonight, right?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Poppy and Jim. You know, and it's going to be a very emotional night at the Staples Center as LeBron and the Lakers, they play against the Portland Trail Blazers at 10:00 Eastern. A tribute is expected on the floor before the game. And it's certainly a very emotional, tragic time for the entire franchise, especially General Manager Rob Pelinka, he was Kobe's very good friend, long-time agent and Gigi's godfather.

And he spoke out for the first time since Sunday's accident, Pelinka saying in a statement that he feels like he lost part of his soul, adding in that statement, "all of us touched by them will now try to become torch carriers of their legacies. And while we do that, we can be certain of this. Kobe and Gigi will continue on forever, playing a joy-filled game of basketball in heaven above."

And meanwhile here in Miami, we're just two days away from the Chiefs and Patriots taking the field for Super Bowl LIV. And this is going to be the third time, quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo has taken part in this game. He won two championship rings as Tom Brady's backup with the Patriots. Garoppolo says, you know, even though he's a champion already, leading the Niners to a Super Bowl title, that would mean much more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY GAROPPOLO, QUARTERBACK, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: Each one of those rings, even though the two that I wasn't playing in, you put a lot into the season even as the backup. And whether you're getting the defense ready or getting your own offense ready, I think it means a lot. But I think being the starter, this one will carry a little bit more weight.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCHOLES: Yes, we're going to have much more on Jimmy G., the Niners

and the Chiefs in our Super Bowl special kickoff in Miami. That's 2:30 Eastern tomorrow right here on CNN. And, guys, I tell you what? More fans continue to pour in to South Beach here. Chiefs first Super Bowl in 50 years, Niners looking for their first title in 25 years. It's going to cost you $5,000 if you want a ticket to the game, one of the most expensive Super Bowl tickets ever.

HARLOW: Wow.

SCIUTTO: Wow --

HARLOW: All right, Andy, thank you, have fun.

SCHOLES: All right.

SCIUTTO: One of the central figures in Watergate says that if Republicans will not even allow witnesses, quote, in his words, "this is a cover-up, plain and simple." Carl Bernstein will join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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