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Cuomo Prime Time
New Iowa Results Just In; Buttigieg Holds Lead; Analysis of the State of the Union Address; Trump and Pelosi Passive-Aggressive Clash at SOTU. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired February 05, 2020 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to another special hour of PRIME TIME. We still don't know who the winner is in Iowa but we're a lot closer. We've got over 71 percent of the precincts reporting. Some of them just came in at the top of the last hour.
Pete Buttigieg, still in the lead in the metric that matters, which is delegates, just like with the Electoral College in the general election at the state convention, it's going to be about -- you know, when it comes to the national party convention, it's going to be about delegates.
Let's go to Abbey Phillip. She's in Des Moines. Abby. So let's talk about what Buttigieg is selling as why the success in Iowa matters.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, you know, from the very beginning, the Buttigieg campaign had really staked everything on Iowa. It was all about proving that he had viability going well past Iowa. And so one of the things that they talked about wanting to do was showing that he could really win all across that state.
Now, it's a given. Iowa is a predominantly white state. It is a particularly rural state. But even within Iowa, there are suburban counties, there are rural counties, there are those 31 pivot counties that went from Obama to Trump. And that's where you'll see that Buttigieg really focused a lot of his time.
He did 50 town halls in the last several weeks of this campaign. And so much of that time was focused on those pivot counties. And I'll tell you what, a lot of these town halls that he did, there were a lot of Republicans in the room. I mean, he had several people getting up at the town halls and basically saying, hey, I'm a Republican, and I'm interested in looking for a Democratic candidate. And that's why I'm here tonight.
So that's been a big part of his argument. And I think that the results that they're seeing, that's one of the reasons why they're so happy about the results is because they've been trying to show that they have a broad base of support, that they could bring in some of those sort of wayward Democrats or perhaps Independents who left the party in 2016, bring them back into the Democratic Party, and that is his argument for how he can go up against Donald Trump in November, potentially.
CUOMO: Now, the big thick that his rivals and other critics swing at him is yes, but how will he do when the demographics open up to the strength of the Democratic Party, which is, of course, its diversity, and this idea that he is haunted by weakness or at least softness proceed with voters of color?
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, it is a real problem for the Buttigieg campaign and one that they're acutely aware of. I mean, in some of the recent polls, he's still around a zero to two percent with African American voters. But again, this is one of those things where the campaign is looking at Iowa as a way to sort of get on the radar of voters who may have written him off or are not really that interested in his candidacy.
And the other part of this is how Buttigieg performs in relation to Joe Biden. As you know, Chris, Joe Biden is running away with the African-American vote in this race so far. But by showing strength against Biden in another race In Iowa, and potentially if we go into New Hampshire, the Buttigieg campaign is hoping that they can make a case that Biden is not as strong as he seems to be. And given that African American voters are predominantly concerned about beating Trump, they think that that's an important factor.
The problem, though, is that they have a long way to go. They're at two percent, Biden is, you know, maybe 30 or 40 points beyond that. But I think even in the last couple of days here in Iowa, you saw Buttigieg starting to pivot to that message. He brought out a lot of African-American surrogates into Iowa, even at times when the national cameras weren't on him, to show Iowans and show the rest of the world that he's building African American support. That was what he was trying to do in these last couple of days.
So there's some hints here that the Buttigieg campaign is starting to make that pivot. Will it work is a real question and will he have enough time. We only have a couple of more weeks before the South Carolina primary where he'll have that major, major task, Chris.
CUOMO: Abby, thank you very much, especially standing outside in Des Moines. It's cold. I know. I was just there. So thank you very much.
[01:05:06]
PHILLIP: It's balmy, it's comfortable.
CUOMO: Yes, could tell by what you have on. Thank you very much. All right, so what does this mean about what's to come? Let's take it to Hilary Rosen, Charlie Dent, and Mitch Landrieu. Mitch, look, we call it the horse race, OK. But it's not really a horse race because the media creates a tailwind or a headwind based on what's happening event by event. And that is really important right now especially in this first group of states. How do you see Iowa playing out into New Hampshire?
MITCH LANDRIEU, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I see that it's not a horse race. It's a roller derby. And I do think because of the way the media -- the way the media views it, it can create a distorted picture. Abby just mentioned that in all the national polling, Pete Buttigieg has less than two percent of the African-American vote. And when you swing in -- just when you swing into the south, and you go into Super Tuesday, this whole race could get inverted because of the number of people that have not yet actually played.
And so, you know, Rick Santorum will tell you don't overstate Iowa too much, because he won Iowa, and then he got his clock cleaned by Romney in New Hampshire. So I think it's a wide-open race. I do think, as Angela said before, that it is a Democratic Party in search of finding its feet, and being able to articulate a clear message about why whoever the candidate is, is the best person to beat Trump and can govern well.
And finally, you said, and we can't state this enough, you have to win in order to be able to govern. And we have to keep I focused exactly on that. I think I was a big bump for Pete, obviously, you can't underestimate that. But I'm not sure that it's determinative of what's likely to happen post-New Hampshire.
CUOMO: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not dispositive. You're 100 percent right, Mr. Mayor, and thank you for making the point. Hilary, my point is this. That the longer the media is talking about something or someone, the more that is the reality. And we're not talking about Biden except to say you got his clock cleaned. You know, even though magically, when he gets to Nevada and South Carolina, everything will change. It only changes if the results enable the media to want to talk about it as radical change. Fair point?
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Fair point. But I think it's because -- you know, and I've been an Iowa for the last four days and went to almost -- I saw every candidate events, I talked to a lot of voters there. The number one thing for these voters is really not ideology. We keep talking, you know, in on T.V about all these progressive lanes and the moderate lanes and they don't see it that way. They're searching for the person they think can best beat Donald Trump.
And so we look at this may be more in the old theory of opposites that we know in politics, you know this theory, right, where people are looking for the person who was most unlike Donald Trump. So, you know, we went from Carter to Reagan. We went from Obama to Trump. Now, we need that next person.
And I have to just say, I can't let this moment pass where an openly gay man has won the Iowa caucus. I mean, you know, just 10 years ago in Iowa, people got the right to marry. You can still be fired in 17 states for being gay. And all of a sudden, this young gay man, you know, gave a message to people that said, you are all in this together. We are in this together. And that message resonated. That is kind of an historic, you know, moment that, yes, you know, I agree with the mayor, don't make too much of Iowa but it says a lot about people --
CUOMO: Well, you can say more about Iowa in the pivot counties, though, that Trump won after Obama won twice. Pete, to use his own word overperformed there. I don't like that word in politics. I always believe that, you know, you always feel like you knew what was going to happen. You know, you always want to act like you knew you were going to win.
Charlie, the idea of Pete Buttigieg saying to Republicans, open-minded Republicans, I can do what you want me to do. You know what I mean? I'm not some different animal. I'm not some different species. How suggestive of that versus how locked up as your party in the shadow of Trump?
CHARLIE DENT, FORMER CONGRESSMAN OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think Buttigieg does make a fair point. Look, there are a lot of Republicans out there who do not go to Trump rallies. There are many Republicans who support Donald Trump, but do so somewhat reluctantly. And many are, I think, are looking for an alternative. And I think a fellow like Pete Buttigieg who has a very good tone, temperament, he presents well, he's quite measured, quite a contrast to Trump, I can see why there's some crossover appeal with some persuadable Republicans.
I think it's a very fair point for him, unlike, say, Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, you know, would be the greatest gift for Donald Trump. I mean, they would scare the daylights out of people in places like Pennsylvania when they talk about banning fracking, for example. So I think that Buttigieg has that cross-over appeal more than just by any candidate. Biden has it too, to be fair, and I think Bloomberg to a certain extent, as well as Klobuchar.
[01:10:06]
LANDRIEU: Yes, but Chris --
CUOMO: Go ahead, Mitch.
LANDRIEU: Chris. Do you remember very early on, Pete Buttigieg did something really smart? He actually had a town hall, if I recall correctly, on Fox. And he was actually received very well. And it really scared a couple of people in the Republican Party because of how well he was received. I think the President tweeted out about it as a matter of fact. And I thought that was a very smart move early on by him.
CUOMO: Yes, I mean, look, he really doesn't have anything to lose. You know, now he will. It will be interesting to see how the campaign adjusts if he has good results through Super Tuesday. It'll be interesting to see how they do it. It's a very ambitious team. He's got a young team, he's got a hungry team, but we'll see. You know, the better you do, the more you have to lose. Hilary, please.
ROSEN: Well, I was going to say, I think that, you know, obviously, Buttigieg winning would be the biggest story coming out of Iowa. People keep saying Biden falling so dramatically is the second biggest. But I actually think the second biggest store head of Iowa is the real low voter turnout.
CUOMO: Yes.
ROSEN: You know -- and so that what we've seen is among -- you know, when I went to these caucuses where you had like eight percent of the people of eligible voters in these neighborhoods who showed up at the caucus, and when I asked, you know, people why their friends didn't come, it's like, you know, they're just waiting. And it's sort of like, wake me up when the primary is over and I'll show up at the polls and vote against Donald Trump.
CUOMO: It's been pretty red, also. I mean, Trump flew through that state. I mean, you know -- and you've had historically low turnouts with Democrats there.
ROSEN: But even amongst Democrat, it's -- Democrats are just -- a lot of Democrats are just sitting on the sidelines saying, you know, whoever you nominate, I'll just vote for it because I just want to vote against Donald Trump. And Republicans, I think, to Charlie's point, many, many Independents and Republicans are looking for that person to vote for who just will keep things as comfortable as possible for them and who's not Donald Trump.
So I do think that there is, you know, the most active part of the Democratic Party that's very invested in this primary, but I saw a lot people that weren't at all.
CUOMO: And that part of the party probably isn't in Iowa. I want to keep you guys please. Where else do you want to go at 1:00 in the morning? I want to take a break here. When I come back, I want to talk about what the President was trying to do in the State of the Union tonight, because he was working on what you're talking about, Hilary. He's trying to keep people home. He wants to keep Democrats home in this election. How did he do that? Did it work? We'll talk about that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON RIDDELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL SPORTS ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Don Riddell with your CNN World Sports Headlines. Another day, another win for the Liverpool Football Club, but this one looked a little different. Manager Jurgen Klopp rested his entire first team for the FA Cup fourth-round replay against Shrewsbury. Klopp himself wasn't even there for the game.
With an average age of just 19 years, and 102 days, it was the youngest team the Reds have ever fielded, but the kids came through with flying colors, edging it with a late own goal. It turns out that it was a masterstroke by the manager because the kids won the game, and it means the Reds are into the fifth round. The first team players got some much-needed rest in order to focus on more important battles later in the season.
Meanwhile, the young Norwegian striker Erling Haaland has scored yet again. And what a season he is having after lighting up the Champions League with RB Salzburg. He's now playing for Borussia Dortmund in Germany and he just cannot stop scoring. Against Werder Bremen in the German Cup on Tuesday, Haaland scored his eighth goal for the club. That's his eighth goal in just four games since arriving in Germany.
The 19-year-old is averaging a goal would you believe every 20 minutes. But unfortunately for Haaland, it was all in vain today because Bremen won the game 3-2 there into the quarterfinals. That is a quick look at your sports headlines. I'm Don Riddell.
[01:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: All right, we're now 71 percent of the precincts reporting in Iowa. Let's remind why does Iowa matter for Democrats? Here's why. Put up the history of the finishes there and you'll see that historically, whoever wins Iowa -- this is why it was so big between Hillary and Bernie with that very close finish, right, that many Bernie people felt was not accurate.
Hillary, Obama, Kerry, Gore, Clinton, all the way back until you get to Harken, if you win in Iowa, and obviously Harkin had the advantage there, you wind up getting the nomination. So that's why it matters. Now, let's go to the panel, Hilary Rosen, with all of this discussion about whether or not the Iowa caucus starting the Democratic race is now a done deal, it's not going to happen again, do you believe that metric is not relevant in this election in this climate?
ROSEN: Well, you know, we have four candidates within, you know, seven or eight points of each other.
CUOMO: Yes, good point.
ROSEN: And I do think that that's a really different scenario than we've had in the last, you know, three or four nominating contests. And those four candidates have the resources to go through all the way through to Super Tuesday when a majority of the delegates will end up getting allocated. And we have another candidate Mike Bloomberg, who's coming in with hundreds of millions of dollars to put his name on the map. So, you know, I do think that we are more in flux now than we've ever been.
CUOMO: Yes, I think so. I also think that you guys have to get to grip with what you're up against, and how to counter it. Mitch Landrieu, now to your point, Iowa is totally different than you know, other than Nevada, I guess, we'll see how that goes using the same software that they used in Iowa. But New Hampshire is the real deal. Whoever gets the most votes, wins.
Let's put up the current state of play there just so people get it. And, and this is why, you know, this is why Bernie Sanders is so into this. You see, Harry Enten's average of the top choices for people within that state. Now, this is why this matters for Bernie and for Buttigieg. And yes, I'm going to put them in the same conversation because the early reckoning of the race will be based on those two names. What needs to happen for each of those two people in New Hampshire? LANDRIEU: Well, Buttigieg has another big night and evens with Bernie Sanders, all of a sudden, you know, you really can't deny that Iowa wasn't just a one-off. What I'm -- and Hilary mentioned this a second ago, and I just want to keep going back to this. Let's just assume Biden falls. Does that mean his votes go to Buttigieg or Mike Bloomberg is going to be sitting there saying, well, now that he's gone, I'm the guy that's going to step into it. And I think it's just very unclear.
CUOMO: Right.
LANDRIEU: I do think as you said before, if you go Iowa and New Hampshire, you know, and you get them both, I think that your momentum is really, really strong and you don't really live to fight another day. You really become potentially the front runner until you get knocked off the pedestal by maybe South Carolina or Nevada. And I think that's why --
CUOMO: Right. And look, now, I feel -- I feel what you're saying. And you know what else I feel? I feel the Warren's supporters giving me the stink eye right now. And you're right, she could win in New Hampshire. And then you know what happens, the media narrative changes. And all of a sudden you're talking Warren, Warren, Warren --
LANDRIEU: Exactly.
CUOMO: And they'll be showing you the trends of why she's more electable than Bernie Sanders and how the momentum carries it. Now, Charlie Dent, let's deal with this -- let's look, Charlie, in here with this Bloomberg factor. How do you size him up as a threat within the party and a threat to Trump, Charlie?
DENT: Well, first, I think that Bloomberg is somebody that has to be taken very seriously. Frankly, I thought he was smart for ignoring Iowa. I think the Iowa caucus is a farce to begin with. But I think he was smart to ignore it. And this guy, with all that money, he can play as long as this race stays fairly modeled. It doesn't seem that there's a decisive front runner right now, that's good for Bloomberg.
And again, you know, Bloomberg, if he could somehow breakthrough on Super Tuesday, I think he would be very formidable for Donald Trump. Again, Republicans, I could -- I could see persuadable Republicans moving in the Bloomberg direction. He doesn't scare most Republicans. They see him as a mainstream on economic issues. And that is very reassuring to many of them who are looking for an alternative to President.
So I think Bloomberg is formidable. When you have that kind of a checkbook, you know, you can -- you can persuade a lot of people.
CUOMO: But you've got 40 percent of the vote in Iowa, Hilary, that hates what Mike Bloomberg represents. You have a part of your party right now that is as anti-elitist, anti-rich as I've ever seen it in my lifetime in your party. How do you factor that in?
ROSEN: Well, and I think Democrats love that Mike Bloomberg is taking it to Trump. They love that he's holding them accountable. Just tonight, you know, you saw the most active action against the President's State of the Union from the Bloomberg campaign. So that's really important.
But I think a lot of Democrats look at these numbers and say we actually don't need Republican votes to beat Donald Trump. You know, we've never had Republican votes to win the presidency before. We actually need Democrats and Independents to get out there.
And so, I do think that there's a skepticism about whether these candidates are going to step aside and Mike Bloomberg is going to really make a big difference. Having said that, you know, you can't discount a candidate who has the resources to throw it all in once you are campaigning in, you know, seven, or eight, or nine, or 10 states at the same time.
CUOMO: I don't have a lot of time left, but I want a quick take on something. Mitch Landrieu, if Trump gave that speech tonight other than that, you know, thing with the handshake, isn't he much harder to be if he could stick on message?
LANDRIEU: I think so.
CUOMO: Of course, he can't.
LANDRIEU: Incumbent presidents -- incumbent presidents that have a good economy, that have discipline, have been staying on message, you're going to hard to beat.
CUOMO: Right.
LANDRIEU: And I think Trump has got at least a 50 percent chance of winning this election, and Democrats need to start acting like it.
CUOMO: Yes, I think it's even better than that. But Charlie Dent, do you believe that the Trump you saw tonight is the real Trump that you'll see throughout?
DENT: No, this is teleprompter Trump tonight. He always gives a more -- a more measured message during the State of the Union. Although I thought by focusing on the economy, he helped himself quite a bit tonight.
CUOMO: Yes. And by bringing out all that humanity and staying measured. I thought it was one of the better presentations that he's given. But let's see how he is tomorrow, and tomorrow's a huge day. Hilary, Charlie, Mitch, thank you very much.
All right, so we got more numbers from Iowa on our watch. That's a good thing because it helps us shape the race for you. Now, I told you last hour, I want to bring back the Wizard of Odds to take this different look at Iowa. What are pivot counties? Why do they matter? How do they telescope into the Democrat fate against Trump in general just because of one state like Iowa? You'll see next.
[01:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: All right, let's take a different tack on these new late-night numbers from Iowa, and why Pete Buttigieg sees them as more than just one states worth of winning. The Wizard of Odds is back, Harry Enten. Make the case.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Okay, so Pete Buttigieg wants to say there were those 31 counties in the state of Iowa that went for Barack Obama and then flipped over to Donald Trump. And if you look at the map right now in Iowa, what do you see? You see there's a lot of that mint that Buttigieg is doing here. He has this wide range, this wide breadth of support, including in those 31 pivot counties. Bernie -- I'm sorry -- Pete Buttigieg is a head right now in 24 of them, 24 of them. CUOMO: Who's in those counties?
ENTEN: So those are counties -- there are a lot of voters, as I mentioned, a lot of people who switched over --
CUOMO: Right, but what kind of people are they?
ENTEN: A lot of white working-class voters are in those counties.
CUOMO: Rural?
ENTEN: Not necessarily rural. There's some urban areas, there's some rural areas. It's kind of mixed, right? It's a lot of an eastern Iowa. That's a place where Democrats historically have done very well. But over the past four, six years, what you've seen is that era has flipped over to the Republican Party.
And Pete Buttigieg's argument, Chris, is that, hey, I am the guy who can win back over a lot of these white working-class voters, these voters who switched over from Barack Obama to Donald Trump. And that makes me the electable candidate, and as we know, electability is very, very important in this election.
In fact, you know, you can -- I have one of these slides right here. Not this one. Let's see if we can pull it up. Here we go. 26th 2020 Iowa Democratic Caucus. Someone who can beat Donald Trump, 61, 61 percent that they preferred that quality than someone who agrees with you on the issues.
And that I think is the Pete Buttigieg selling point. I can win in those pivot counties, I can win over those white working-class voters, and that's what Democrats want.
CUOMO: One thing. We don't have a number on it, but what is your gut on how many Democrats think they have a candidate that can beat Trump?
ENTEN: It really does depend if you look at the poll and which -- where you're going for. Joe Biden has overwhelmingly won on that question over and over and over again. If you ask him --
CUOMO: Do you want to see it after Iowa? ENEN: But that's the question. After you lose in 2004 before those Iowa Democratic caucuses, if you ask voters, hey, who do you think is the most electable? They said, Howard Dean. All of a sudden, you went to Iowa, John Kerry, boom, easily won there. Howard Dean came in third. And what happened, Howard Dean's numbers went through the floor on that question, and John Kerry's went through the roof.
CUOMO: What else you got for me?
ENTEN: Well, you know, I think that, you know, we're going to be looking ahead to New Hampshire, right? I think this is rather important. If we look at my average of polls right here, we see that Bernie Sanders is at 25 percent, Joe Biden 18, Elizabeth Warren 14, Pete Buttigieg all the way down at 13 percent.
Now the question is, the question is, how does it victory in the state of Iowa change those odds? How does it change this polling? So I've went back over time. Look, Wizard of Odds, so why the heck shouldn't I have odds.
CUOMO: Why not?
[01:29:57]
ENTEN: Why the heck not?
So Pre-Iowa, if you are looking based upon New Hampshire polling predictiveness since 1980 -- look at this. Basically, Buttigieg was only at 2 in 20 chance of winning in New Hampshire. But with an Iowa bounce, I wouldn't be surprised if that number went up significantly to 5 in 20, which of course, is right around 25 percent which isn't bad given that where he started off with was all the way in fourth place.
CUOMO: Are you underselling Elizabeth Warren?
ENTEN: I Don't think I really am underselling Elizabeth Warren. The reason why is --
CUOMO: you don't think there's a chance that she finishes first or second in New Hampshire?
ENTEN: She could definitely finish first or second in New Hampshire. But the fact is question is, you know, if you look at the things that happen, you know, nearly a little more than 10 percent of the time, those happen, you know, a little more than 10 percent of the time.
That's not something that's crazy. So you know, she could be. But here is the deal. Look at a state like Iowa, a lot of voters, a lot of organizing is important there. If you look though, she just couldn't deliver.
A very white state, she doesn't necessarily do that well with non- white voters. There are not a lot of them there. Even in New Hampshire, where if you basically look at this average, look, she is still back there. CUOMO: Right.
ENTEN: We should not expect much of a bounce for her from Iowa.
CUOMO: Bad first state for them. I think that you're going to see some kind of structural change. We'll see if the party can get it together.
And I got a term (ph) for you.
ENTEN: Go ahead.
CUOMO: They screwed up the caucus, right?
ENTEN: Yes.
CUOMO: No question about it. Fakakta Caucus -- fakaktus.
ENTEN: A fakaktus.
CUOMO: What do you think? Do you like it? Fakakta is Yiddish for like a screwed up thing, you know.
ENTEN: You know, why don't you leave the Yiddish to me. And I'll leave the --
CUOMO: You didn't think of it, I did. But I'm giving it to you as a gift because I love you.
ENTEN: You know what -- the fact is that sometimes gifts should not be given. They should be held on to. And I like my style. Look at this. Look at this.
CUOMO: You don't like fakaktus?
ENTEN: No I don't like fakaktus. I don't like fakaktus. I like you, but I don't like fakaktus.
CUOMO: Why? Because you didn't think of it?
ENTEN: No. Because it's not that clever.
CUOMO: How much does it -- it's pretty clever.
ENTEN: No, it isn't.
CUOMO: A little bit it is.
ENTEN: You know, the fact is I'm cleverer than you are.
CUOMO: He likes it. Anybody who says that about themselves usually doesn't mean it.
All right. Harry Enten -- thank you very much.
ENTEN: Farewell and be well. CUOMO: We're going to turn back to the State of the Union. That's where the smile leaves my face. Why? Because look, you have to take a look at this speech and what it was meant to do, and what it was meant to not do.
All right. We're going to take you through it. There is an argument to be made, next.
[01:32:11]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: All right. So President Trump's third State of the Union address started with a snub, as he appeared to ignore a handshake from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. And it ended with no ambiguity as the Speaker literally ripped his speech apart.
Here is what Pelosi said about her move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I've put out a statement, read my statement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you tear up the whole thing?
PELOSI: Because it was a manifesto of mistruths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right. In between the snub and the shred, the TV producer in chief, or well, whoever put this together, we have no reason to believe that he wrote it, but the messages conveyed, very powerful, very unusual for this president.
Let's bring in Bakari Sellers, Angela Rye, and Jim Schultz.
Jim Schultz -- is this the Donald Trump that we should believe we will see lead us from now on?
JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Look, it was a great speech. It was very measured. And, you know what, he has a lot to be proud of and a lot of accomplishments to tout. He did a nice job doing it tonight.
I think he's going to continue to do that through this campaign cycle. So yes, I think this is what we should expect going forward. You're going to hear a lot of this at the rallies. You're going to hear -- you know, look, he is packing rallies all over this country and conveying the same message directly to the American people.
CUOMO: No, he is not.
SCHULTZ: And what he did tonight is what --
CUOMO: No, he is not.
SCHULTZ: What do you mean he does not?
CUOMO: He does not say what he said tonight at the rallies. He is not having Tuskegee airmen show up at any of the rallies he's throwing. That's for sure. You know, it isn't.
SCHULTZ: Well, you know what, the message is jobs, economy, criminal justice reform -- all the successes they've had -- that this administration has had from day one, he touted tonight. And he continues to tout time and time again, as he should.
The American people are taking notice.
CUOMO: Angela Rye -- how many read hat rallies -- Jimmy I hear you. Let me bring in Angela.
How many red hat rallies have you heard where the President is touting criminal justice reform?
ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I haven't. And I think it's just funny we started this segment with -- it reminds me of like new parents who are proud of their kid taking their booboo. That's what this is, right.
It is horrible. He lied throughout the entire speech, like that is exactly why Nancy Pelosi ripped up the speech. I think it was a little dramatic, but point well taken. Like it is full of lies.
He took credit for things that happened under the Obama administration. The same commentators that come on and say, why do we still talk about Obama? Because your president always talks about Barack Obama. He can't get over it unlike the last administration. Yet still he is taking credit for things that happened under the last administration. It was ridiculous.
CUOMO: The portraits in humanity were compelling. And the President started it -- Bakari, with this notion which we heard from a lot of presidents. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- say to the people of our great country, and to the members of Congress, the state of our union is stronger than ever before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now on the upside, this is a man who would not shake the hand of the Speaker of the House and then she ripped up his speech. So the state of our politics is certainly not better than ever before.
But those portraits of humanity and the President trying to depict an empathetic look at the country, how concerning is that to you -- Bakari?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean I think as a practical, political matter, it is concerning if you are trying to win an election. But the fact is that --
CUOMO: He is.
[01:39:48]
SELLERS: -- the state of our democracy is extremely fragile. I think we realized that. And what no one has said tonight is that the President of the United States was an impeached president of the United States giving his final State of the Union address. I think that has to be said.
And I appreciate Jim Schultz, his fervor in his advocating for his candidate and the President. However, the fact is that the President of the United States is a liar. You have, you know, the final 35 months of the Obama administration far outpaced the first 35 months of the Trump administration in terms of job creation. That's something that you don't hear.
The fact that the President wants to tout these reforms or trot out different African-Americans to try to boost his stature amongst the African-American community is downright silly.
I don't think -- honestly I don't think Donald Trump knows who the Tuskegee Airmen really are. I don't think he knows the plight of the Tuskegee Airmen. In fact, many of the individuals in that room, I dare is, even during this black history month don't know.
And let me just -- let me just but a bow on it. Think about this. Donald Trump gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom during black history month to Rush Limbaugh.
RYE: Yes.
SELLERS: I mean I don't -- I don't know how else you surmise who Donald Trump is other than to say that that is the most perverse thing I think anyone would ever imagine what happened during black history month. But that is par for the course for who Donald Trump is.
CUOMO: So Jim -- we know that Rush Limbaugh has cancer, advanced cancer. There is no question that that will have a mitigating effect on how people judge him. I get the humanity in that.
However, he is known for a very specific world of demagoguery and what about that decision? On the one hand, you're talking about the Tuskegee airmen. And then you are giving the Medal of Freedom to Rush Limbaugh during black history month.
SCHULTZ: So when is it a crime to be conservative in this country and to honor conservatives, especially one that's quite frankly has been honored himself by conservatives across this country and faithful radio show, very successful radio show for all those years?
You know, I don't see any problem with it.
RYE: Of course not. SCHULTZ: I think the Tuskegee Airmen -- that was sitting there, that were sitting in the stands, in that body tonight and stood up and saluted the President of the United States. The President of the United States acknowledged them. That was a very, very special moment.
And you know, to say ok, you know, he is just using that Tuskegee airman -- I mean he promoted a brigadier general earlier today. That is a big deal. And acknowledging that is a big deal.
CUOMO: Right. How are you really honoring what the Tuskegee airman he represents if you have Rush Limbaugh in the same ceremony?
SCHULTZ: You know, criminal justice reform -- Chris doesn't get down flat out. Criminal justice reform, which was going to help minorities across this country, does not get done without Donald Trump pushing it. It just doesn't happen.
There has been no Democrat that's been able to get that done. It has been Donald Trump's effort to get that done and we're seeing that happen with Republican --
RYE: I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALKING)
SCHULTZ: -- around the country.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
RYE: I know that you all are really into rewriting history, but I just want to help you with this. There is a congressman by the name of Hakeem Jeffries who pushed for the First Step Act, and that bill would not have happened if it weren't for Hakeem Jeffries efforts.
Let's be very clear on how the government is set up is legislation comes through the house.
SCHULTZ: You don't wrangle Republican votes for that bill without the President of the United States.
(CROSSTALKING)
RYE: I'm sorry. I know but -- you guys like to --
(CROSSTALKING)
RYE: You guys like to --
(CROSSTALKING)
CUOMO: Let her finish.
(CROSSTALKING)
CUOMO: Jimmy -- hold on. Let her finish.
RYE: The fact that you're speaking over me right now --
CUOMO: Jimmy -- hold on. Angela -- finish.
RYE: -- you like to engage in a --
SCHULTZ: I'm not the one shouting. You seem to be shouting here.
RYE: Because you're talking over me -- Jim.
CUOMO: Go ahead -- Angela. Finish your point.
(CROSSTALKING)
RYE: It is a perpetual problem with you all. And what I am telling you is, you continue to engage in erasure.
SCHULTZ: What's the perpetual problem with -- who is supposed to be you all.
RYE: And I rest my point. You are still talking, and I have the floor. What I'm telling you is, you continue to engage in erasure. And you are not going to do it on my watch in black history month. That is what I am telling you.
Hakeem Jeffries --
(CROSSTALKING)
SCHULTZ: Look, this is -- look, the bottom line is --
RYE: It would not have happened without Hakeem.
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: Can I just say something? Can I say --
CUOMO: Go ahead -- Bakari.
SCHULTZ: It does not happen.
SELLERS: Can I talk? Can I talk some.
What I want to tell you though --
SCHULTZ: I will tell you something else.
CUOMO: Jimmy -- hold on.
Jimmy, Jimmy -- hold on. Bakari -- go ahead.
SELLERS: I just --
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: I love -- I love a few things. One -- I love a few things. I love the fact that Schultz is excited about criminal justice reform. I love that this is a new like thing that Republicans talk about because that's all the black folk really want is criminal justice reform, right?
I hope the sarcasm just rained over the program. But let me have a moment of grace here. I just want to say one thing.
SCHULTZ: No, no, no. I think like every other American --
SELLERS: Jimmy -- let me just --
CUOMO: Jimmy -- let him finish his point. Bakari -- go ahead.
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: Listen, listen, listen -- black folk want to talk on the show too.
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: So what I'm not going to do is I am going to have a moment of grace and I'm going to say that I do not wish cancer on anyone. And I am reaching my prayers out to Rush Limbaugh.
[01:44:57]
SELLERS: It is the grace that he hasn't bestowed on many others, let alone those who are poor and downtrodden in this country. But I do want to say that my prayers are with him.
With that though, we have to understand that people are very nuanced. And the misogyny and the racism that Rush Limbaugh -- that has been pervasive throughout his career cannot be ignored when we're talking about tonight.
And I think that that is emblematic of who Donald Trump is, and how it is woven into his presidency. You know, you can't have someone who is a birther, someone who is exhibiting birtherism. And I just think that this is going to drive my conservative friends crazy, but I think that having a birther and Melania Trump award the Presidential Medal of Freedom to another birther in Rush Limbaugh in black history month, really just talks about the point that Angela and I are making.
And while you are championing criminal justice reform, thank you for that. I mean the real credit actually goes to Hakeem Jeffries. The real credit actually goes to Cory Booker and Rand Paul. But thank you. Thank you for making those first steps. But we still have a long way to go.
(CROSSTALKING)
RYE: You're just missing the point.
SELLERS: I'm just saying that you have a long way to go. And the fact of the matter is -- the fact of the matter is look, with all due respect to the same presidential who referred to African countries as shithole countries, the same president who has been labeled as a racist and exactly so because that is the behavior he exhibits is the same president who gave that State of the Union speech. He's the same president running for President of the United States again. We won't forget that.
RYE: No.
CUOMO: Jimmy?
RYE: Now he's quiet.
SCHULTZ: Yes -- sir.
CUOMO: No.
SCHULTZ: No I'm not quiet at all. Look, you know, the one thing, he talked about jobs, the economy, how people are doing better now than they were when he took office. That is a fact, and that is all this other stuff that you are talking about is just deflection from that.
And that is all you are trying to do here. Because his record is good, his approval ratings are up, the Republican Party's approval ratings are up, and it is scaring the heck out of Democrats.
RYE: Can I just -- in this period of Black History Month --
(CROSSTALKING)
SELLERS: Jim -- let me ask you a question. Is it true that --
RYE: Go ahead -- Bakari.
SELLERS: But isn't it true that Barack Obama created more jobs than Donald Trump?
SCHULTZ: That is absolutely not true.
SELLERS: That's a question to you.
SCHULTZ: It took him eight years.
SELLERS: Oh my God.
Why are we having this conversation if you won't deal with the facts?
SCHULTZ: Are you kidding me?
CUOMO: The answer is yes but they'll say that the two periods aren't the same measurement.
And I'm going to talk the economy and what the realities are --
SCHULTZ: The two periods are not the same though.
CUOMO: -- in a second. But I'm out of time for this segment.
SCHULTZ: Realities are that people are doing better than they were yesterday.
CUOMO: Jimmy -- thank you. Angela -- thank you. Bakari -- thank you.
RYE: He can't hear you -- Chris.
CUOMO: No, no -- he can hear.
I've got to go -- thank you each and all.
Now, we don't know if this president will get to deliver another State of the Union. That is up to you, right?
And I keep reinforcing this message. You are not the politics that you see at play on this show and many others. This country is better and bigger than its politics.
But we do have to talk about what happened in that speech, and what it means for you -- and we will, next.
[01:48:04]
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["CNN WORLD SPORT HEADLINES"]
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[01:52:09]
CUOMO: So tonight, President Trump gave his State of the Union address with a measure and mean that would be promising if people believed it was the real him.
First, the obvious. He's going to be cited for fact abuse. But this was his big sell tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm thrilled to report to you tonight that our economy is the best it has ever been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right. Is economy strong? Yes. Does Trump get credit? Yes. Is he unbeatable therefore? No. Why? Because what he just said is an exaggeration both of how we got here and where we were.
The numbers are part of a continued and unprecedented expansion that's over a decade old and fragile.
Trump did not start anything -- period. Regulation cuts, other policies, stimulated hiring -- he gets credit for that. But the big reason for any growth increase is the sugar high of a tax cut that has saddled this country with unmentioned and unfathomable debt. He owns that too. The conservatives know it and they hate it. He ignored it.
And it is anathema to the right side of that aisle. They are just staying safely in his shadow. They're scared.
He also revealed his biggest policy weakness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have also made an ironclad pledge to American families. We will always protect patients with pre-existing conditions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Listen, if pre-existing conditions are the iron and backbone of health care, he is rust. That is a lie. He is in court right now trying to remove pre-existing conditions. Right now.
By breaking down the ACA and replacing it with nothing, he has compromised countless families -- period. The ACA had problems. He has no replacement for those problems. He literally has told you he will figure out his plan and tell you about it after the election.
Huge vulnerability. Why? Well, it reflects his neglect of the biggest or second biggest expense for most of our families -- insurance costs. And it cuts against what he was selling so hard tonight. What was that. That he cares.
Now, whomever wrote the script for Trump portrayed in America that is us at our best in many -- portraits of humanity and empathy, that presented profound and perverse irony given who was talking about it.
The President celebrated diversity. Americans overcoming adversity -- a Tuskegee airman, the promise of even greater heights literally and figuratively for his great grandson who wants to be in the space force. What's more American than that?
Compassion for the sick and the fallen -- true celebrations of pain and our collective commitment to those in need.
[01:55:02]
CUOMO: But they don't belong in world of Trump's usual place of xenophobia and division. Look, I get why he did it especially tonight. And I get why he says and does the things that are poisonous to the same potential that he cited tonight so often at his rallies.
We saw what he wanted you to see on this night. But who will he be tomorrow, especially tomorrow with the impeachment vote. America first, he says tonight. Remember, not putting America first is what got this man impeached. It wasn't just some Democrats gambit to get him. If that were true, why would a growing number of his own craven colleagues in the Senate admit that what he did was inappropriate, wrong, even impeachable.
We know why he did not mention it but bottom line remember this. You are what you do, not what you say on one night. Not what people say about you. You are what you do on a regular basis.
We know who this man is when it comes to empathy, when it comes to how he sees division. Let's see what tomorrow brings because the thrust of his newfound appreciation of diversity should buy him no more than that.
But also, think about this, how many of you Republicans would not have shaken Pelosi's hand? How many of you would not have voted to have witnesses in a trial you are supposed to conduct? How many of you would go to Congress to engage in blood sport in a war of attrition? How many of you deal with your lives and work the way we see these elected conduct their business?
Remember, our politics does not define this country or who we are. They are divided, our leaders. That doesn't mean we are.
Thank you for watching.
Stay tuned. The news continues here on CNN.
[01:56:58]
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