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Cuomo Prime Time

Pete Buttigieg & Bernie Sanders Both Claim Victory in Iowa; Trump Responds to Impeachment Acquittal with a Rant. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired February 07, 2020 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to a "Prime Time" live late night edition live from New Hampshire. Iowa says the counting is over, but our own analysis of the count is showing errors. Will there be a re-canvas as the head of the party is asking for? Well, so, we're going to have to see. We'll play that out.

Let's go from the potential of the unknown to what is now painfully obvious. The only lesson Trump learned was that attacking opponents works and he wants revenge more than ever. And now, we know that he has some new targets. What do you say? Let's get after it.

All the Iowa results are now in. We actually broke the news to the candidate with the razor-thin lead a short while ago right here during a town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO (on camera): The Iowa Democratic Party just released the final batch of results from the caucuses, 100 percent of precincts reporting. You are holding a narrow lead of a 10th of a percentage point over Senator Sanders on the state delegate equivalents, which is the metric that we use to determine a winner. What is your reaction?

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG, SOUTH BEND, INDIANA: That's fantastic news to hear that we won.

(APPLAUSE)

BUTTIGIEG: Senator Sanders clearly had a great night, too.

[24:00:00]

BUTTIGIEG: I congratulate him and his supporters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:00:15]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We won, says Pete Buttigieg, but just an hour before, Bernie Sanders said the same thing, standing alongside Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We won in Iowa, but we ended up winning the popular vote by 6,000. And I suspect that, at the end of the day, Mr. Buttigieg and I will have an equal number of delegates to the national convention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, the popular vote is not the metric that counts. Regardless, a CNN analysis shows errors in the counts that were reported by the Iowa Democratic Party. That's not good for anybody.

The head of the DNC, Tom Perez, says he wants a recanvas of the results. But there's a catch on that, all right? Candidates have until 1 p.m. Eastern to file a request for recanvassing, or a recount. The key word is candidates.

Buttigieg suggested to me that his campaign is not going to push the issue. Bernie Sanders seemed to suggest the same. So what happens now?

Let's bring in David Chalian and Abby Phillip. It's good to have you both. Thank you for joining me, especially at the hour.

David, what did our analysis show?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, it showed a couple of different findings, where the numbers didn't fully add up. I'll give you one example that it found.

In one county, it found that the total number of people in the final round of voting -- remember, Iowa votes in two rounds. That initial preference round, and then in that final round, after the reallocation. It showed that the total number of people in the final round of voting was greater than the total number of people in the initial round of voting. Well, that's not possible if the rules are followed the way it is. You can't add people. The doors close right before that initial preference, and nobody is supposed to be added in the middle of the process.

CUOMO: Even if babies were born, they are not born voting age.

CHALIAN: That is correct. They are not born voting age.

And so that's just one example. So those kinds of things, you know, there are questions being raised. And this is why Chairman Perez is saying. Let's have a recanvas.

To your point, though, that's not how the rules go. He's an outside voice. He's the chairman of the party. Obviously, he's trying to have influence on this.

CUOMO: Which by the way, respect for Perez. Because, you know, some would say let's just -- let's just get out of here. Let it go. Right? This is Iowa's problem. Let it go. He isn't. CHALIAN: Yes.

CUOMO: He's trying to do quality control on this, so good for him. But the problem is, what's the rule?

CHALIAN: You need -- a candidate has to request it. As you just noted, it might take away, just in terms of the news of the day from these town halls, was what you noted. Which is that Sanders said to Anderson, You know, we're in New Hampshire now. Let's move on to New Hampshire.

Pete Buttigieg to you said, I'll leave that to the party. Well, that's not the way it's really done. So neither seem interested, and I don't think any other candidate is going to be all that interested.

CUOMO: Abby, what do you think? Warren or Biden, what do they have to lose by saying, I don't buy it. I did better.?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No one wants to look under the hood of the Iowa caucuses right now. I mean, I think people recognize that this is a messy process, and I think both Sanders and Buttigieg, in particular, understand that, if you open the door to some kind of recanvas or even a recount, you don't really know how that's going to end up for you when the margin is this narrow, a tenth of a percentage point.

So neither party is particularly interested in going that far, and all the others, they don't have much to gain. I mean, Joe Biden is not going to -- to catapult from fourth place to third place because of a recount. And I think the same is true of the two other candidates in the race.

But, you know, the fact that we found irregularities in our canvas of the results should not be a surprise. If you were watching our election coverage on Monday night, and we were in these -- these caucuses.

CUOMO: Right.

PHILLIP: And you can see people counting one by one by one. That is human -- that is ripe for human error.

CUOMO: Right.

PHILLIP: I talked to Iowa Democrats this week who have done caucuses for many decades, who actually love the caucus process. But they told me that's how it is. It is a little bit not 100 percent. It's not a science. It's a bit of an art, and nobody wants to really get that deep into it.

CUOMO: But it has to kind of be accurate. The irregularity is the fact that I wear the same thing every night. This is called wrong. If the number isn't the same in both places, then you have a problem.

PHILLIP: I mean, people are counting by hand. They're counting heads, and that is how you create errors. People walk out from round one to round two.

CUOMO: So you're going to move on, but you're going to know it's not completely accurate, fine. So the state of play stays the same. You move into New Hampshire.

The question is, how does it play into New Hampshire? I have to tell you, I did Buttigieg's town hall here. We've all been with him plenty out there. There was energy and excitement because of how he did in Iowa. What can that mean?

CHALIAN: Yes. Listen, he's having the best week of his campaign, right? I mean, we'll get past that deadline tomorrow, just to make sure that nobody is calling for a recanvas.

CUOMO: One p.m. tomorrow Eastern.

CHALIAN: Or later today, I guess.

CUOMO: Right.

CHALIAN: One p.m. Eastern. But, you know, once we are past that deadline, and the party says 100 percent of the vote is in, Pete Buttigieg is going to be the winner of the Iowa caucuses, even by that one tenth of 1 percent.

[00:05:12]

I also want to note, also, on the Bernie Sanders thing. You heard him say, I won the popular vote by six million [SIC] votes. You know that that's not the metric, Chris. When he says he's 6,000 votes ahead in the popular vote, that's the initial round. That's not even the final round. He was ahead there, too, but by a narrower margin.

CUOMO: Do you think he winds up with the same number of delegates? The SDE acronym?

CHALIAN: I think they will either split it evenly, or maybe Buttigieg has one or two more. But probably an even split.

But to your point, Buttigieg has had a really good week, probably a bit muted than he normally would have, just because of the way this was handled.

Sanders, today, announces $25 million raised in the month of January --

CUOMO: Right.

CHALIAN: -- his best fund-raising month of the entire campaign. That is a person who is building a campaign for the long haul, durability. Eighteen dollars is the average donation. I mean, it's just -- it is mind-blowing in terms of how he is able to build, succeed in Iowa, come in New Hampshire and be well-positioned. He's somebody who's really building for the long haul here.

PHILLIP: You have to wonder for Sanders if there's a bit of a feeling that Iowa keeps slipping through his fingers. This is the second time that he's gotten so, so close. I don't think, necessarily, that it matters whether he's one tenth of a point up or Buttigieg is one tenth of a point up. To David's point, he is, in some ways, impervious to some of these new cycles, because his base is so with him.

But I think, as a matter of pride and a matter of sort of political bragging rights, Bernie Sanders wanted to be able to win the Iowa caucuses and to be able to have the Iowa caucuses cement his movement. He wasn't quite able to get there, but I don't think that that's the end for him. He has a long way to go.

CUOMO: True, true. But as we all know, perception is often reality in politics. And whereas in 2016 it was, wow, do you think he can win, now it's, oh yes, we knew he was going to kill it in Iowa, and we know he's going to kill it in New Hampshire, also.

He's in a totally different position now. He is the presumptive favorite coming into New Hampshire. And the only question is will he sustain in Nevada a couple weeks after that and then South Carolina immediately after?

CHALIAN: How close is Buttigieg to him here?

CUOMO: Right.

CHALIAN: If Buttigieg, who was not riding second in a lot of the New Hampshire polls, if Iowa now catapults him and this becomes, out of the first two contests --

CUOMO: Right.

CHALIAN: -- a Buttigieg-Sanders race, that's a whole new dynamic in this race that we just haven't seen.

PHILLIP: And there are some indications that a little bit of that is happening. I mean, the Monmouth poll that came out --

CUOMO: Tease.

PHILLIP: -- today.

CUOMO: Tease.

PHILLIP: We will talking about that later in the show.

CUOMO: We do have some new polling. Oh, they put it up.

All right. So listen, we have implications here. It's been said very often that Iowa may not pick your winner, although it often has for the Democrats, but it also picks your losers.

So, what are the numbers right now in New Hampshire? What's the state of play? We're going to take a look at that with what the data tells us, but also what the state of play tells us with these two powerhouses. Next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:12:07]

CUOMO: Now, as I kept Abby Phillip from saying before we went to, break, there is a new poll about the state of play in New Hampshire. It comes from Monmouth, and it shows Sanders and Buttigieg in a tight rate for the top.

Sanders on top, no surprise. Not seeing Warren, maybe Biden in second, big surprise. Let's discuss.

Aisha Moody Mills, Hilary Rosen join me, David, and Abby.

So let me loop you guys in here, because you're new. At the top of the pole, Hilary, you agree, Bernie on top, a show of recognized and familiar strength here as a neighboring senator. But who's in second? Surprised?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I mean, you know, it does show momentum, as is -- is important coming out of Iowa. That is historic, and why should this be any different?

I think it is interesting, because we also saw a "Boston Globe" poll tonight. And I don't know the numbers from the Monmouth poll for second choice, but the "Boston Globe" poll, similar numbers to Monmouth on the top choice. But again, this race is not breaking down ideologically.

The second choice for Biden voters is Warren and Buttigieg. The second choice for Warren voters is not Bernie Sanders. The second choice for Warren voters is Pete Buttigieg.

And so I think that what we're seeing is these voters are struggling to figure out who the best person is to beat Donald Trump. And we can say all we want, they're figuring out the progressive lane versus the moderate lane. I just don't think that's how they're seeing kt. These numbers don't play out that way.

CUOMO: Aisha, Bernie Sanders was asked something tonight about who his running mate might be. I want to play it and get your take on what that does for his chances. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: What I want for a vice president is somebody whose worldview is similar to mine. And there are a lot of, you know, brilliant women out there who hold that view, so we will be looking at that.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: So can you commit to saying you would have, you would want to have a woman vice president?

SANDERS: I would want to.

COOPER: Or a person of color?

SANDERS: Yes, I don't want to commit. It's always -- I don't want to commit. But, you know, my inclination is to say yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What do you think, Aisha?

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: At this point, that's kind of obvious. There is absolutely no way that Democrats are going to get excited and jazzed up about two white men, particularly two white men of a certain age who are running for president. Simply because we are so used to seeing ourselves reflected in the makeup of this party, that prides itself on being diverse and wanting to be inclusive. Even when we struggle at it, there's a lot of intentionality that goes into making sure that people feel like they have a voice and a place at the table.

[00:15:02]

So yes, of course, he's going to pick a -- he's going to need to at least pick a woman or a person of color if we are to really ignite the turnout that we need in November to really dump Donald Trump.

And that's the thing that we all need to be talking about. Voters are confused, and they're thinking about, quote unquote, electability. What's really happening is that in their guts, they want to be moved. They want to be invigorated; they want to be excited.

And so as we continue to profile these candidates, I think that that's what people are trying to feel, is they want to feel something. And whoever the VP is, is certainly going to evoke some kind of emotion if we're going to get people to come out in record-breaking numbers, which is what's going to be required to get rid of Donald Trump in the White House.

ROSEN: But that -- but that wasn't his standard, which is interesting. I might have been said -- might have been interested in him saying, I'd like somebody who helps challenge me on my thinking, broadens the party, who brings a lot of other things to the table. He actually said the opposite of that, and I think that --

CUOMO: I've never heard Bernie Sanders say that he wants to be challenged about anything, and I've been interviewing him --

ROSEN: That's right.

CUOMO: -- for a long time. That's why he -- the downside of authenticity.

ROSEN: That's the fixed -- the fixed view.

MOODIE-MILLS: And he's got a problem with race, too, and talking about it.

CUOMO: He knows what he believes and he knows what he believes is right.

Well, all right, so let's talk about this a little bit. I mean, you know, one way, let me put a little bit of a skepticism on this. Typical Democrats, can't figure out how to win, can't figure out what you really want. You want to feel, but you also want electability. This is the disadvantage against the Republican Party. They are all in. They are behind their guy. He has checked the boxes. There is none of this feeling versus something else. There's directness.

CHALIAN: What you're describing about the Republican Party behind their guy in this election is the reason why a president, who on paper, right, has not had a majority approval in this country in the entirety of his presidency. You would look at that and say, he has a tough battle for reelection, and it will be. It's going to be a close race, right?

But the reason you look and say, President Trump, especially now, when he's acquitted, he's emboldened, his numbers are at the high point right now, he is as the election year is getting underway, positioned in a way that he can be the favorite for reelection here because of that rock-solid unification of his party. I mean, it's just -- There's no crack in it.

CUOMO: And that's why, look, because you could say, that's -- that's paradoxical. He just went through his worst trial, literally -- right, trial -- and he's at his highest popularity. Shouldn't he be at his lowest? No, because those who supported him are now behind him more than ever.

PHILLIP: Yes. And I don't know that Trump supporters are not with him because they -- he makes them feel something. I mean, I think that's actually -- that actually is why they are with him.

Trump is a sort of a cultural phenomenon, particularly among white people in this country. And I do think that that is about how he makes them feel about politics and about their place in this country. And that has almost nothing to do, actually, with his policies, because his policies were antithetical to a lot of Republican values for a long time.

And that's why, I think, that when we look at what's going on with the Democratic Party, and you know, I think Aisha is right in some sense that -- that voters of colors do want to see their -- their identities reflected in the politics.

CUOMO: Sure.

PHILLIP: At the same time, I -- I don't necessarily think that identity is going to be sufficient for those voters, because look at what has happened in the Democratic primary. You know, voters of color are not gravitating toward, necessarily, the candidates of color.

CUOMO: Right.

PHILLIP: They're gravitating toward the old white guy.

CUOMO: Yes.

PHILLIP: Joe Biden. CUOMO: We think.

PHILLIP: And then they're gravitating toward the other old white guy, Joe -- Bernie Sanders.

CUOMO: Right.

PHILLIP: And so there is something else that is going on here. I think voters are practical. They want people who speak to other values that they have, which are how the government works for them, how the economy works for them.

CUOMO: I agree with you.

PHILLIP: That's the code the Democrats have to crack here.

CUOMO: I agree, I agree. That's why I'm playing with the duality, because with Trump, the way he makes people feel is how he won.

CHALIAN: Yes.

CUOMO: On the Democratic side, you can make people feel. They can resonate off something that may not be the right person to beat Donald Trump. And as you say, that is a code that must be cracked.

All right. Let's take a break here. Thank you everybody for being part of the conversation.

Hillary Rosen didn't like three quarters of what I just said. She'll get a chance to come back at me.

All right. Now, this idea of -- you know, look, I acquitted the president because he learned his lesson, OK? And you know, that State of the Union, that's who he really is. That's who he'll be now. Boy, were they wrong. They have unleashed the kraken, and the proof came today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:24:18]

CUOMO: He learned his lesson, they told you. He will be the uniter. That was what was portrayed in those parts of the State of the Union, said others.

But we all know what's true in life has to be true in politics at a certain point. You are what you do. And President Trump showed you who is by what he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We first went through Russia, Russia, Russia. It was all bullshit. Dirty cops, bad people. It was evil. It was corrupt leakers and liars. It was the top scum.

Had I not fired James Comey, who was a disaster by the way, it's possible, I wouldn't even be standing here right now.

[00:25:04]

I fired that sleazebag.

And little did we know we were running against some very, very bad and evil people.

Adam Schiff is a vicious, horrible person.

Nancy Pelosi is a horrible person.

But I doubt she prays at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, you might say, well, this was just a fit of pique. He was at a prayer breakfast right before this, OK? When President Clinton went to the prayer breakfast he was once again contrite. He, too, was upset about what was done to him. He, too, thought that it was wrongful, but again, he apologized to the country and he wanted to try to bring people together. And he leaned on God and the grace thereof to try to unite again.

Here is what this president said at the prayer breakfast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't like people who use their faith as justification for doing what they know is wrong. Nor do I like people who say, I pray for you, when they know that that's not so. So many people have been hurt, and we can't let that go on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Scott Jennings, I wanted to have just you and me to have this conversation, because I don't want any yelling and groupthink. We'll get to the political implications afterwards.

Would you have said what the president said today at the prayer breakfast?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I have a different theory on public communications. I -- it's not how I would comport myself, necessarily.

CUOMO: Wait, hold on.

JENNINGS: But then again -- yes.

CUOMO: Hold on, hold on. I just want to go step by step. You wouldn't say it that way, not just because you have a different communications theory. You use the word "comportment," and I think what you're trying to communicate, please clarify, is you don't want to behave that way, especially at a place that is about prayer and unity through faith, right? JENNINGS: Well, I -- I mean, if I were speaking at a prayer breakfast,

I would probably talk about the issue that matters most to me in this world of politics, and that's abortion. That's probably the only thing I would talk about.

But I would say I'm not Donald Trump, and I have not endured a three- year campaign to delegitimize my presidency and to throw me out of office. And I think the reaction, honestly, Chris, he had today was an understandable human reaction to a three-year campaign to delegitimize him.

Is it the right thing to do? No. If I could make wave a magic wand and make everybody nice to each other, I'd do it. I'd do it in a heartbeat, but that's not the world we live in. And I -- honestly, I'm willing to give the president a little latitude on his attitude today after -- after everything that's happened.

CUOMO: Now, the last part is the truth. You say you wouldn't do it. You say it's not how it should be, but then you say you'll give him a break. And you know what, Scott? You and the people in your party who are in Congress do that every time.

And that's why he says, I could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue, and my supporters wouldn't leave.

How does that make you feel about somebody as a person of faith, that this president mocks people who use their faith to guide their behavior; who said that Romney used his fate as a crutch? You and I both know, as flawed believers, that's exactly what faith is supposed to be, but you all excuse it, because he's in power and you want him to stay there. Is that OK?

JENNINGS: Yes, I do want him to stay in power, because the alternative -- at the same time he was making that speech this morning, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who I guess is now potentially the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination for president, was over on "The View" talking about abortion on demand, okaying partial birth abortions, abortion anytime in any place.

And so if you're a Christian, if you're a conservative who believes in those values, and your choices are Donald Trump, who sometimes says things you don't like and you wouldn't do it that way, versus rule by a party that would allow abortion on demand and install federal judges who would allow it, this is no choice at all. You go with -- you go with your gut on policy --

CUOMO: But you know that's a lie, right?

JENNINGS: -- and your morals on policy. It's not a lie. Watch the clip. He got asked directly this morning.

CUOMO: Right, so you're going to be about faith and morals, and then you're going to --

JENNINGS: -- and he said -- he said every abortion. CUOMO: -- lie. I saw the clip to prepare for this segment, Scott. He did not say abortion on demand whenever you want it, wherever you want it.

Let me ask you something. How do you reconcile?

JENNINGS: He did.

CUOMO: How do -- this is why I just wanted you and me.

JENNINGS: I am not lying to you, Chris Cuomo.

CUOMO: He didn't, Scott, and we both know it. And look, I'm not -- look, it's a lie to say that Pete Buttigieg or anybody in the Democratic Party who's running for president wants to have abortion whenever you want it at any time. Let's pull out the baby, and let's look at it, and then throw it in the garbage. You guys say this and you say it for the ugliest of reasons.

[00:30:04]

You know what the law is. You know you couldn't do that by law. The Supreme Court standard wouldn't allow it. You know what the viability standard is.

And so at the same time, you want them to say, This Scott Jennings and these other guys, you know, they're rooted in that Christianity. That's good, man. That W.W.J.D. You know, that's good for us. I know we're supposed to be secular, but I take comfort in that.

And then you pass off a position like that that you know isn't true. You know no Democrat says that you should be able to get an abortion any time before the kid goes to kindergarten. Why scare people like that?

JENNINGS: A, you're exaggerating. B, the question he was asked this morning was what is your line? His line back was --

CUOMO: No I'm exaggerating? I'm exaggerating?

JENNINGS: He -- Yes, you are.

CUOMO: Yes.

JENNINGS: His -- The question he was asked is, what is the line? What's the line you draw? And the -- and the answer he gave was very simple: I will trust any woman to make the decision any time she wants to make it. Now, that's a perfectly legitimate position for a Democrat primary for president.

CUOMO: No. He said, I trust a woman --

JENNINGS: But you ask me what a Republican conservative --

CUOMO: -- to make the decision about her body, not the government. He said that he believes the woman should make the choice, not the government about what she can do with her body and when.

He didn't say I'm going to get rid of the legal standard. I think you're scaring people. But now we've talked about that subject. That's fine. I get that it works for you guys. That's fine.

But here's what I don't understand working for you. That president mocks people like you, Scott. He thinks that you are silly to ask a God for forgiveness. He told you, I have never asked God for forgiveness.

And he doesn't believe in people who say they pray for people they don't like, because he thinks the notion of wanting something good to happen to someone you don't like is silly.

And he thinks that Romney leaning on his faith to make a decision, such a crutch. All of that should disgust you. Not just, I don't like how he said it.

If Pete Buttigieg said today, Look at you, Scott Jennings, leaning on your faith as a crutch, praying for people that you say you don't agree with, and mocked it, what would you be saying about Pete Buttigieg, Scott?

JENNINGS: He does mock people. People who have come to him and challenged -- you know, he's tried to make biblical arguments for his pro-life position, and he mocks people who challenge him. He does -- he does mock people who rely on their faith to inform their politics.

Look, I don't believe Donald Trump is a perfect person, a perfect Christian, and I don't believe --

CUOMO: Just not true.

JENNINGS: -- he believes he is one either. And I will pray -- listen, and I will pray for every -- him every day so that he can be a better Christian.

But I will tell you this. I did not vote for him, and I am not going to vote for him because I want him to teach me how to be a better Christian. I want him to enact policies that I think better reflect my values, which are informed by my faith, and informed by my conservative beliefs.

CUOMO: So let me ask you something.

JENNINGS: No Democrat will do that.

CUOMO: Let me ask you something. If he said people who believe in religion -- no, I want to ask you something, because I know how you're going to answer it, and I just want to see how it lasts over time.

If the president were to say, Look, I don't believe in God. I think this is silly hocus pocus. And these Christians who do this, you know, they want to do it, but I don't get it. I've never gotten it, but I'll give you the judges. And if I have a chance to put a judge on there that will change Roe v. Wade, I'll do it because I want your votes. Would you vote for him?

JENNINGS: I mean, if the choice is a pro-life policy versus a non-pro- life opponent --

CUOMO: No, no, no, no, it's a yes/no question.

JENNINGS: -- I'm voting for the pro-life candidate.

CUOMO: It's a yes/no question. Because Buttigieg says he is a Christian and understands his faith and its teaching, but he'll follow the law.

But I just want to be clear. So the president could come out and say, Hey, Jennings, you're a Christian. You're an idiot to believe in that hocus pocus, but I'll give you your judges. Just give me your vote. You'd still vote for him, right?

JENNINGS: Yes, I would vote for a pro-life candidate for president over a pro-abortion candidate for president every day.

CUOMO: No, let's say he's not. He's not pro-life. Let's say he says I don't care about pro-life. I think this is silly. This is you religious nonsense people. Witchcraft, basically. But I'll give you the judges, because I want your vote. You'd be OK with it, and I think that's fine.

Just stop saying that your party makes faith paramount in their positions and their character counts. Don't say it anymore, because you don't act on it anymore. That's why I wanted to have this conversation.

But now, let's talk about the state of play and what the president has done with his words in terms of the election. Let's take a quick break. I'll bring in a couple people with different opinions. We'll bring in April Ryan. We'll bring in Angela Rye, and we'll talk about the relative politics. But I wanted to talk to you first. We'll keep Scott Jennings.

So what was it like to be in the room where this happened today? How did it seem to affect people? It's an important perspective for you. Let's get that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:38:27]

CUOMO: All right, so look, we played for you what the president said, and we see that he is coming for revenge. He is coming to judge. He is coming for a reckoning.

Now, here's the question. What does that do for the state of the race? Does it intensify those who support him, as we have seen in the polls? And at the same time, does it create an opportunity for those who would oppose him?

Scott Jennings is back. We'll bring in Angela Rye and April Ryan. Scott Jennings is back because we disagree on an issue, but that doesn't mean we don't like each other. We disagree with decency. We have the conversation, and it's good to have him. Yes, he may take a poke at me if we're in the same room, but we're not, so it's all good.

All right. April Ryan, you were in the room where it happened today. What was the experience like in terms of the effect on the audience of the president's words?

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the president used words "bullshit," as well as the words "sucker." It was surreal, because earlier in the morning, he was at a prayer breakfast, and he was angry. But he was in a celebratory mood, thanking everyone, and regaling about how all of this happened over three years ago.

And the crowd gave him extended ovations, but there were two names that the president omitted that were deafening to me, the silence of these names. Mick Mulvaney and Rudy Giuliani. He did not thank either one, and you did not see -- I did not see Giuliani in the room, nor Mick Mulvaney.

[00:40:04]

So, today was a victory lap for the president, but there's still something going on. The president almost seemed like he was trying to re-litigate this to get people to believe him that he was innocent. And he kept saying he's done nothing wrong.

CUOMO: Oh, yes. So Angela, here's a question for you. His numbers get a little bit of a bump up through this most difficult period of the impeachment trial. Let's take that as a suggestion of significant, if not unique, resolve of those in the Republican Party to see him succeed. What does that do to the challenge of trying to replace him with a Democrat?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it goes right to the heart of what has been the problem of Democrats' strategy, and that is to say that they're going to go hard after voters that they lost in 2016. Trying to go and cut into the Republican base is not a good strategy.

What is a good strategy is to realize that what's gone is gone, and to buckle down and get the people who have long been your base, and that is black and brown voters. That is newer voters, young voters, registering new folks, ensuring that folks who had been disenfranchised and are returning citizens can vote.

But to try and go and turn Trump voters, who as we just saw in the last segment with your hypothetical ask to Scott, is highly problematic. Morals be damned, that is not what drives Donald Trump's voting base. It is bigotry. It is fear. It is judges who have lifetime appointments that may be pro-life, but they want to kill off everyone else, our civil rights. Folks that want to ensure the death penalty continues to exist.

All of these other things that fly in the face of morality, or what I believe is a social justice gospel, which is the one for the God that I serve, who is also Jesus Christ.

CUOMO: Right. Look, I get it, and Scott, I see you're rolling her eyes. You don't agree. But they don't agree with you that Democrats want abortion as an ATM and that you should be able to kill a baby.

JENNINGS: I don't agree with being called a -- I don't agree -- I don't agree with being called a bigot for being a conservative Republican.

RYE: I didn't call you a bigot.

JENNINGS: You're right. You're 100 percent right. You did. You said Trump supporters --

CUOMO: You weren't called that.

JENNINGS: That is exactly what you said.

RYE: Scott -- Scott, I'm big and bold enough to say Scott is a bigot if that's what I think. That's not what I said. So don't put words in my mouth.

CUOMO: All right. So --

RYE: You've been doing a good job of doing that to Pete Buttigieg and even Chris Cuomo, but not today.

JENNINGS: You said it. I mean, I don't know what you want me to say. You used the word "bigot."

CUOMO: I'll take that as a new treaty.

Scott, let me ask you this.

RYAN: He rolls his eyes all the time.

RYE: I'm fine with that.

CUOMO: Hold on a second. Listen, Scott, I know what she said. I know what she said. I don't let people call people bigots on here. I don't have bigots on. She was talking about Trump voters and an aspect of them that she believes that that's why the message resonates. I don't have to explain Angela. She does well for herself.

What I'm asking you to explain is this. Is it part of the calculus politically that what the president is saying doesn't just rev you guys up but revs up people who don't like that kind of talk? The divisive talk and the idea of being vengeful and separating people. Are you worried about him stoking not just his people, but the Democrats?

JENNINGS: Well, my view of the Democrat opposition to President Trump is that it has been fairly consistent since the beginning. I mean, if you look at his numbers, you know, there's been a steady, you know, mid-forties that disapprove of him. And obviously, according to the polling on impeachment, want to even throw him out of office. And so I'm not actually sure that it would be possible for him to make

them go any further than they already want to go, which is to impeach and convict the president.

So I would anticipate them voting against the president.

What I think he has to do is a couple of things. No. 1, I think there are millions of people in this country who are not registered to vote but might be inclined to vote for him if they were registered. So that's No. 1.

No. 2, I do think he has room to run with the African-American community. I think he has room to run with the Hispanic community farther than the previous Republican presidents did.

RYAN: I have to get on this --

JENNINGS: And I also think if he were to improve his numbers by four to five points among female voters, he's probably a lock for reelection. So I think those are the kinds of things he's going to be focused on. Incumbent presidents have the time and resources to do that, and I think that's what they're doing.

CUOMO: Right. How many of your friends out there, April Ryan, how are feeling the suggestion?

RYAN: Not. Zero, goose egg. And I'm going to tell you why. If there was a chance for that, the State of the Union really turned a lot of people off.

RYE: Right.

RYAN: One, the main issue -- and don't get me wrong, we never wish any ill on anyone who is sick or dying or has cancer. But for him, in front of the nation, to pander for black votes, and then give Rush Limbaugh the highest medal a president can give?

[00:45:05]

This bigot -- Rush Limbaugh is a bigot.

RYE: Absolutely.

RYAN: Rush Limbaugh is racist. Rush Limbaugh was a birther. And for him to do that? He could have given not only Gold Stars to the Tuskegee Airman. He could have also given him that Presidential Medal of Freedom.

RYE: Yes.

RYAN: This president goes from Charlottesville to S-hole nations, to giving the Medal of Freedom to the whole world to see to Rush Limbaugh. That is a big contradiction. That's hypocrisy. The black vote is too precious, and there is a lot to lose and a lot at stake in this moment.

CUOMO: All right, I'm out of time. Thank you very much, Angela Rye, April Ryan, and Scott Jennings. Appreciate it.

All right. There are people on the fence. You know, I keep telling you, you know, we are not just our politics. There are a lot of people who aren't sure about the president, and they gave him the benefit of the doubt. And you hear from even some Republicans like Senator Susan Collins, You know, I think that he learned a lesson from impeachment.

But, they're right. The president learned a lesson, OK, not the one they were hoping for. And that is the basis of the argument. Judgment is coming, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:50:28]

CUOMO: Imagine. It took just four years to go from this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I accept your nomination for president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: -- to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I humbly, and gratefully, accept your nomination for the presidency of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And yet now, the party bears no resemblance to its traditional self. I mean, the issues are there. Romney even said he votes with Trump 80 percent of the time. But the values? They have been, I argue, eviscerated. Literally, the guts of their character counts and live your faith has been changed to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was all bullshit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And he isn't just talking to the Democrats or the media. Republicans are just as in his sights as anyone. He mocks his own party, its members, and members of his base when it suits him.

My argument is, we are all in the same boat, my brothers and sisters. If you don't do Trump right, he will do you dirty.

You see where the guy is, devoted to him? Remember him? His life, devoted to Trump as his lawyer? Prison.

Remember his longest political adviser, and what's going on with him right now? Do you see Trump come for either of them? No.

Do you see who he singled out for honor during Black History Month? Don't buy this "That's just how he talks" jazz. "I wouldn't say it that way, but" -- That's like saying lions snap the necks of animals and disembowel them because that's just how they are when they're hungry.

Look, those who try to rationalize supporting obvious wrongdoing, like this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I believe that the president has learned from this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Really? Just a day later, here's what the senator realized.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So why do you have that feeling that he has changed, that he learned a lesson?

COLLINS: Well, I may not be correct on that. It's more aspirational on my part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And that was on FOX. Aspirational. Who changes bad behavior when the behavior is validated? This is what your aspiration led to and what was supposed to be about inspiration.

This president worships success. This is what he did at the prayer breakfast. He attacks the very basis for faith. He mocked Romney for acting on his faith in his vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Then you have some that used religion as a crutch. It's a failed presidential candidate, so things can happen when you fail so badly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. Remember the line, religion as a crutch, OK? I'm going to get back to it.

But two points. One is about fact, and then the one about faith.

Yes, it's true. Romney lost in 2012, and Trump is president. But Trump didn't outperform Romney. Romney got a bigger share of the votes than Trump did when there were less votes to be had. And Romney was up against a popular incumbent Democrat.

Now, one reason that Trump may be so Obama-obsessed is because he attacks what he fears. And he has asked more than once if he would beat Obama, because he knows and hates the answer.

But forget about the politics. Trump tells you all you need to know by describing faith as a crutch. He meant it as a slight, right? He doesn't get that that's what faith is all about. Those who choose to believe do so why? They're not enough for themselves. Recognize your flaws. We desire forgiveness. The idea that of, through grace of God, getting to a place that is bigger than ourselves, that can make us more and better than we are without devotion to something bigger than ourselves.

Trump has showed you time and again, he is about none of this. He is a man who told you he has never needed forgiveness from God. Find me another Christian who says they have never needed forgiveness from God.

[00:55:00]

While he judges the faith of others -- and you just saw him do it -- it is not my place, or profession, or inclination to judge his own. I'll judge myself, and not well, and with good reason.

But there is judgment to be passed here, twofold. You members of Congress who say faith matters to you, and you support him, you better own how he is. Not just what he gives you, not just the judges, not the pats on the head if you help him stay in power. And if you don't want to judge yourself, it's going to come anyway, and here's why.

In Congress, there is judgment of you. The election is coming, and voters will judge what you have done. And remember this. They're also going to judge why you did it. That is the argument.

Now, with a straight face, the president barked in his wild speech about nepotism, going after kids like Hunter Biden. How dare they make money off their family name? Hello? Self-awareness anyone? We're going to follow the money. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John Vause.

You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Studio 7 at CNN's world headquarters in Atlanta.

Ahead this hour, he was silenced by authorities when he tried to warn the world about China's coronavirus, and now the virus has taken his life.

Sometimes it's good to vent. Just let it all out. And so the U.S. president did. A day after his impeachment acquittal came an hour- long, rambling, stream of consciousness.

END