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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

Iowa Democratic Party Reviewing Results From 95 Precincts; Democrats Look To New Hampshire For Clarity After Iowa Chaos; Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) Raised $25 Million In January, His Highest Monthly Total; Bernie Sanders Make The Case For His Electability; Trump Makes Overt Appeal To African-American Voters. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 08, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

S.E., CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED. I'm S.E. Cupp.

Here's tonight's headline. Io what now? It is five days after the Iowa caucus and we still do not have official results. And in the latest twist, presidential campaigns for Pete Buttigieg, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have submitted their respective evidence of inconsistencies from the count. And the Iowa Democratic Party, moments ago announced it is reviewing results from 95 Iowa precincts, making up about 5 percent of the total count.

Unsurprisingly, the memes out of Iowa abounded. It was called the Iowa carcass. It was likened to a dumpster fire. Bring in the count, they joked. Or maybe rock, paper scissors would have netted better results.

How could this have happened? Sharpies, coin tosses, technical glitches and reporting inconsistencies resulted in one of the most chaotic and confounding caucus nights, but then, I repeat myself, in modern history.

Adding to the confusion, Trump supporters 4Chan (ph) reportedly encouraged prank calls into the Iowa caucus hotline. Hilarious, guys.

But, look, this is no laughing matter. We're busy people. If you're like me, you multitask like a pro. Right now, as I do this live show, I'm also texting with a source, ordering dinner for my family, DM'ing a friend and knitting a sweater under the desk. Modern technology has simplified even the most complicated of decisions and tasks, including voting, or so we thought.

For all those reasons, it's easy to forget that what we are doing right now, casting our first ballots for the next president of the United States, was envisioned by the founding fathers as one of our most singularly important duties and rights. The founders knew that everything in an experimental would-be democracy would hinge on this very thing, the ability of its citizens to determine their own fates through the radical act of voting.

Samuel Adams, yes, he of the great Boston Lager, wrote in 1781, let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual or at least that he ought not so to do, but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country.

And Alexander Hamilton, yes, he of the award-winning Broadway musical, wrote just a few years later in 1784, a share in the sovereignty of the state, which is exercised by the citizens at large and voting at elections, is one of the most important rights of the subject and in a republic, ought to stand foremost in the estimation of the law.

And nearly a hundred years later, James Garfield, he, not of the Jim Davis comic strip, wrote, now more than ever the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. Indeed.

So here we are trying to make one of the most important decisions a citizenry can make, and we're being asked to do so in the midst of an absolute cacophony of crazy. And it's not just the failures in Iowa putting undue pressure on us in an unrelenting stress on the process. Every election usually has a surprise, maybe two, that throws a wrench into the system. This one has already had the mother lode.

Think about it. During this election cycle, the sitting president of the United States was impeached and acquitted. We came to the brink of war with Iran just a month ago. The Dow has hit record highs, unemployment record lows. A total of 29 candidates entered the Democratic primary, including two who got in just over two months ago, and 11 are still in it.

We've already had an election integrity scandal in the first contest. Likewise, we know that at least three separate foreign countries are trying to influence the 2020 elections and that's according to our own intelligence officials. In short, we're a Gary Hart monkey business, a Bush-Gore hanging Chad, a George W. Bush DUI and a McCain campaign suspension all at the same time, and it's only February.

[18:05:02]

How can you be expected to make a decision about who should run the country with all of this detritus flying around in the air?

So here's the deal, how are you doing? Are you hanging in there, America? Because this is not normal. In fact, I think it's really unfair. It's unfair to you that the president of the United States has tried multiple times to interfere with your electoral process and may do so again.

I think it's unfair to you that Republicans in Congress are totally unconcerned by this, that they decided that keeping their jobs was more important than doing their jobs. I think it's unfair to you that the Democratic National Committee has essentially said to you, trust us, as they figure out in real-time how to count votes in a primary. And it's unfair to you that this nonsense is your government at work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I believe that the president has learned from this case.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I tore up a manifesto of mistruths.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We first went through Russia, Russia, Russia. It was all bullshit. This is sort of a day of celebration because we went through hell.

And then you had some that used religion as a crutch. They never used it before.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Power of Mitch McConnell, I would expel Mitt Romney from the Republican caucus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Part of me thinks, Garfield is right, we got the government we deserve and it's broken, but another part of me still believes we deserve better, a lot better. So let's demand it. Back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:10:00]

CUPP: After the mess that was the Iowa caucus, Democrats were left scrambling to move on to New Hampshire without a clear winner. At last night's debate, the idea was to reset, build momentum and get a couple of last licks in before the next primary. But instead, for some reason unknown to me, they treated tepid talking points and milked those campaign slogans, that is when they weren't gushing over each other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Klobuchar, you served with Senator Sanders in the Senate. Is he going to be able to get the support? Not if you like it, but is he going to get the support that he needs from Republicans?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Okay. I like Bernie just fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: And this is what passed for taking each other on last on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mayor Buttigieg is a great guy and a real patriot. He's the mayor of a small city who has done some good things, but has not demonstrated his ability to -- and we'll soon find out, to get a broad scope of support across the spectrum, including African-Americans and Latinos.

FMR. MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a perspective right now that will finally allow us to leave the politics of the past in the past, turn the page and bring change to Washington before it's too late. KLOBUCHAR: We have a newcomer in the White House and look where it got us. I think having some experience is a good thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Sick burn, guys. You guys do know this is a competition, right? And there's only one winner. In the immortal words of the real world, it's time to stop being polite and start getting real. So how does Iowa in this lukewarm debate preview what could happen in New Hampshire on Tuesday?

Joining me to figure it out is former Press Secretary for the Kamala Harris campaign, Ian Sams, and Executive Director of the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College, Neil Levesque.

Ian, last night's debate for me was not full contact. It was powder puff. And it had me longing for Kamala Harris and her stealth moves. In that debate moment where she sparred with Joe Biden, she looked like she wanted to win and I didn't see anyone last night that looked like they wanted to win. What did you think?

IAN SAMS, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY, HARRIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: You and me both. You and me both. I wish she was still in this race and was still competing as well. But, look, the nature of these campaigns is that they're long and challenging. And I think that what we saw last night, the reason people are playing relatively nice with one another is that this field is broadly united on the fact that when we have a nominee, we need to come together behind them and not risk any inter-party mess hurting our ability to defeat Donald Trump in November.

And so I think that there is reticence from our Democratic candidates right now to really go full-throatedly at each other because of a fear that maybe it could affect our general election prospects in damaging someone too much. And so I think that they're just kind of playing nice while trying to distinguish themselves positively.

CUPP: But that's exactly it. Isn't the goal to distinguished themselves, to make distinctions for voters, and they were all saying how much they liked each other and you had Tom Steyer putting a button on it by screaming, we all agree on everything. I mean, how does that help voters?

SAMS: Yes. I completely agree with you. I think that this has been a relatively tame primary with not a lot of contrast and distinction. I think you saw last night one memorable moment for me was Vice President Biden did take on Senator Sanders on his relatively weak history on gun reform back decades ago, and it's kind of one of those moments where you see it happen in the debate and you wonder why hasn't this happened already, why have they not engaged each other more directly. And I do think that there's a little bit fear and concern about alienating each other's supporters.

But I think as this race gets tighter and tighter, you're going to see more and more direct conflict. Just today again, Vice President Biden has gone after Mayor Buttigieg with a negative digital ad. And so I think that as things get hotter and more contests get under our belt, you will see a little bit more distinction.

CUPP: So, Neil, you were at the debate, you were in the room. People say that Amy Klobuchar had a good night and, in fact, she raised $2 million overnight. Did it feel like her night inside the room where you were?

NEIL LEVESQUE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NEW HAMPSHIRE INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AT SAINT ANSELM: Definitely. I think that she got pretty good ratings out of what happened last night. But you're right, the gloves really didn't come off. I would say that if anyone did sort of go on attack or create contrast, it was Amy Klobuchar.

And there seems to be -- with all of these debates, there seems to be that they're not really too interested in taking each other on, whether it's for their own self-interest, thinking that at some point in time, they'll need the other person's support and their supporters.

[18:15:12]

But the thing is, as we've hosted these debates at Saint Anselm for a long time, four years ago, we also hosted a debate with Donald Trump on the stage with 13 Republicans. And if any of these Democrats believe that they're going to be able to have that same approach on a stage next fall, they're wrong. This is a fight that they need to show and I think they need to show it to Democratic voters.

CUPP: Well, just as an asterisk, I have been saying for months, I don't think Donald Trump is going to show up to debate anyone, but I take your point. This has not been a preparation for facing off with Donald Trump.

And, Neil, the Biden camp is now sort of downplaying the significance of New Hampshire and Biden himself basically conceded defeat last night already. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I took a hit in Iowa and I'll probably take a hit here. Traditionally, Bernie won by 20 points last time and usually it's the neighboring senators that do well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: I'll probably take a hit here. Neil, that's a strategy, I guess?

LEVESQUE: that was the most amazing moment in the debate, that here, you have the former vice president of the United States and he's lagging in the polls, he didn't get a trophy out of Iowa, and now he's already, before the voting has started, conceding to the fact that he's going to lose and he gives it away to the fact that Bernie lives in a neighboring state, which is amazing to me. It's almost as if he wasn't vice president for eight years, getting all of that earned media and all that focus on him.

So I think that that's just an amazing thing. And then if you add that to the point that he had this big changeup in his own campaign management at the same time, he's changed what he was doing now with New Hampshire, he's gone on an attack against Buttigieg, it's a very strange situation.

CUPP: Ian, today's CNN/University of Hampshire --

SAMS: Just to add to what Neil said --

CUPP: Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead.

SAMS: Yes. I just want to say one thing about this. I think that the Biden campaign, very clearly, is trying to reframe everyone's thinking into believing that Iowa and New Hampshire just don't really matter that much for them, that their strategy is always focused on South Carolina and Super Tuesday. And so they're kind of going above and beyond to really emphasize that they expect to do badly here.

And I don't -- I'm not sure that that's the wisest tact. I think, today, I was at a forum put on by Demand Justice here in Concord, New Hampshire, and all of the top candidates were there besides Joe Biden. And he was, I think, doing an OTR stop on his own, an unscheduled stop here in the community. But it doesn't send a good signal if you're not present and fighting with all you've got in every moment between now and Tuesday.

And so I think that they're really just trying to get people to stop thinking that New Hampshire is going to be central to their strategy and start thinking about Nevada, South Carolina and Super Tuesday.

CUPP: Yes. I heard one of Biden's campaign people the other day say, well, we really look at the first four contests as a package. And I thought, what? What does that even mean? But you've got to try and spin it in your favor.

I want both of your takes before I go on New Hampshire voters. I mean, I grew up in neighboring Massachusetts. I am a Masshole (ph) and I know that Massachusetts voters are very different from New Hampshire voters and Vermont voters are very different. But for Warren and for Bernie, how do each of you expect them to do in New Hampshire, real quick? Neil, we'll start with you.

LEVESQUE: Well, I disagree with the idea that someone is from a neighboring state and therefore they're going to do well.

CUPP: Yes.

LEVESQUE: I think Democrats right now are really focused on beating Donald Trump and they're going to pick the best candidate. And I think the fact that Buttigieg is from a state far away is evidence to that.

CUPP: Yes. Ian?

SAMS: Yes. And to add on to what Neil said there, I mean, you look at the numbers over the last week. We've had the daily tracking polls coming out of New Hampshire and it's Pete Buttigieg who is rising. I mean, at this point on this trajectory, he's going to win on Tuesday. And so Bernie Sanders does have a little bit of advantage in this state, having won it so significantly four years. I know that I was on Hillary's campaign, and we lost big here. And I think that he had an advantage coming in, but Pete Buttigieg has erased it.

And if you see voters here on the ground, and I'm sure Neil has seen some of this too, there's palpable excitement and energy around Pete Buttigieg's candidacy. And I think we'll find out Tuesday if he's able to pull off a big surprise. But if he does, I think it's going to mix up the way we look at these later states. For a long period of time, we thought there was no way Mayor Pete is going to be able to broaden his based and coalition to be successful in a state like Nevada or South Carolina or Super Tuesday.

But I think that once voters see him, if he can win two early states, they might start changing their mind and giving him a third look.

CUPP: Ian Neil, thank you so much, from the Granite State, tonight for your insight. I appreciate it.

[18:20:00]

Okay. 11 Democrats are left standing but I want to focus one in particular next, the one with the best chance of winning the nomination, that's according to the latest polling.

And the president's direct and transactional appeal to African- American voters is laughable to some, but should Democrats be concerned?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUPP: The tweet was straightforward and concise. We are the strongest campaign to defeat Donald Trump.

[18:25:00]

That was the bold declaration from Bernie Sanders yesterday making the case for his electability in a primary where that has consistently been questioned by other Democrats. He's got some fresh proof to back that up. A good, if unclear, sort of second place finish in Iowa, polling the chosen beating Trump in head-to-head general matchups and perhaps most convincingly, money, lots of it. Sanders raised a whopping $25 million in January, more than his fundraising numbers in the first and second quarters of 2019 combined.

Contrast that to Joe Biden who is hemorrhaging money or Elizabeth Warren who is hemorrhaging staff in key states like Nevada. Sanders is in an enviable position. He's got the resources to go as long as he wants, but can he still win it all?

With me now Democratic strategist Matt Bennett, who is the co-Founder of Third Way, a think tank promoting centrist ideas, along with Democratic strategist Host of the Resistance Abroad on SiruiusXM, Nayyera Haq.

Nayyera, it feels like Sanders has sort of cleared the progressive lane for himself. Is Warren still a threat to him?

NAYYERA HAQ, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: We tend to forget that Warren actually came in third when she was --

CUPP: It's true.

HAQ: -- ahead of Biden, right? It doesn't seem to be part of the conversation we're having heading into New Hampshire. But what I find fascinating about the Bernie coalition is that it has lasted since 2015, right?

He is the only one in this entire race who has seen something through to the convention and he's maintained that organizing power and we're seeing results of it. It's also due to him -- due to Bernie, that someone like Pete Buttigieg who once said that single player is the compromise solution, but Pete Buttigieg now seems like a moderate, right? So he's fundamentally changed the conversation.

Elizabeth Warren comes in with a bit of a different coalition, right? She polls from the Hillary voters. She polls from the pragmatists because she has plans.

CUPP: If you say so.

HAQ: She has plans, lots of plans, you may have heard of them. And she can go into South Carolina potentially the only person who can pull from Biden's firewall with black voters. She has done a really long-term effort of recruiting and reaching out to black women who are the base of the Democratic Party, Ayanna Presley of the whole squad, she's the one who broke from Bernie and went with Warren. So there is hope and possibility for the progressive coalition.

CUPP: They can't both win. So one of them is going to have to sort of get a decisive lead over the other at some point.

But, Matt, Bernie's argument has been that only he can mobilize the enthusiasm to beat Trump, to Nayyera's point, to bring new voters to the polls. That was not actually the case in Iowa.

MATT BENNETT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It was not.

CUPP: Turnout was comparable to 2016 and below 2018. Is that a red flag for him?

BENNETT: Oh, yes. I mean, the entire premise of his case is I'm going to excite the base and excite these low propensity and new voters so much that they're going to flock to the polls for me. Where were they? I mean, in 2008, the turnout was 30 percent higher than we saw last Monday. So we see zero evidence. It is true, as Nayyera said, that he's held on to his base. That is for sure. And those people are unshakeable and they yell at me on Twitter a lot.

CUPP: Me too.

BENNETT: And they're very excitable. But those are not enough. And if we're going to beat Trump, we're going to have to do a lot better than that. There is no evidence that he can do it.

CUPP: Well, Matt, what are his deficiencies in a general? No one should argue that he can't win a primary. I think he can. What are the deficiencies in a general?

BENNETT: Deficiency number on is that he is a self-described socialist. He can put a little label before it however he wants, but he has said many times on television in his 50 years in public life, I am a socialist. He has said on CNN, I think Americans would be delighted to pay more in taxes.

CUPP: Not this American.

BENNETT: Well, right, you don't have to be like an opposition research genius to figure out what to do with that. And Trump is going to have half a billion dollars that hammer our nominee. They're going to call whomever we nominate a socialist. That's for certain. But if that person says they are a socialist, the charge is going to stick a lot more easily.

CUPP: Nayyera, Sanders took on Bloomberg this week and his money. Is Bloomberg a threat not just to Sanders to the whole field?

HAQ: I mean, he's certainly a threat to Donald Trump because he is the foil of the actual successful billionaire who is truly self-made and ran the entire city. I think he's a threat to Mayor Pete in particular because being Mayor of New York is a little different than being mayor of South Bend even though there have been challenges with communities of color and Democrat base voters.

I think for many people heading into this, if they don't get their progressive or their ideal visionary candidate, Bloomberg does come across as the ultimate, like, all right, fine, we're just going to put up a foil to Trump who can out-money, out-fund him.

CUPP: That's for sure.

HAQ: But it's Super Tuesday, right? We don't see him in Iowa and New Hampshire. We see him playing a game that's a couple of weeks down the road. And the challenge that presents (ph) to the party is that why even bother to have Iowa and New Hampshire to begin with? Why do those go first?

CUPP: Matt, I haven't seen anyone in the Democratic primary take on Bernie. I didn't see it last night. Joe Biden tried a little bit on the gun record.

[18:30:17]

But two questions. Does that change soon? And does that really help prepare him for a general election?

BENNETT: God, I hope so. And no, it does not. I mean, he has been in public life for 50 years.

CUPP: Yes. BENNETT: He has been a mayor and a senator, a Member of Congress. No

one has ever gone after him.

Hillary didn't go after him in 2016 on the theory that she was going to beat him anyway, which she did, and that she needed his supporters and the general. That didn't work out. Twenty five percent of the people who voted for Bernie either voted for Trump or somebody else or didn't vote.

So why hasn't anyone gone after him yet? It is a mystery to me, and to your point, if they don't start to expose things in the winter and the spring, it's going to come out in the fall, and that's going to be much worse.

CUPP: Right.

HAQ: Here is what Bernie can do though. He has his followers and others, even who don't agree will say that Bernie is somebody who has always been consistent, and he knows -- he knows how to actually fight, right?

He and his people do not worry about getting scrappy and getting into it. So I would be very intrigued about with him taking the fight to Donald Trump would actually look like.

CUPP: Well, I mean, if you're a Bernie fan, you hope that he gets that far, but will he be --

HAQ: Eighty to ninety percent of the folks who support everybody else in the field said they'll go blue no matter who. Even James Carville, right, who has tons of criticism about what the conversation about socialism has done to the Democratic Party said, I will support Bernie Sanders then.

Negative partisanship, the idea that Republicans and Trump have gone too far off the edge is going to be a huge voter turnout motivator, regardless of who the nominee is.

BENNETT: To your point, though, that's going to be a big driver in the three states that matter: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, there's like, you know, 80,000 voters who matter in this election and those voters can be driven by negative partisanship on the other side and I could be afraid of voting for a socialist after, you know, an unbelievable onslaught from Trump saying this guy is dangerous.

CUPP: Well, it's all very interesting. We'll have to see, you know, how Bernie does on Tuesday. It'll be a potentially a big night for him. Matt and Nayyera, so Good to have you both. Appreciate it.

Okay. The President's pitch to black voters this week has not been subtle. To some it's been laughable, but should the conversation be less about what he's doing to appeal to this important voting bloc and more about what Democrats are doing to keep it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:36:52]

CUPP: In "The Red File" tonight, a crucial Democratic voting bloc, African-Americans, is it up for grabs?

President Trump's campaign advisers seem to think so. They ran a Super Bowl ad touting his criminal justice reform featuring Alice Johnson, to whom Trump granted clemency in 2018.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALICE JOHNSON, AMERICAN CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ADVOCATE: I'm free to start over. This is the greatest day of my life. My heart is just bursting with gratitude. I want to thank President Donald John Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: His State of the Union speech was also full of explicit appeals to African-American voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody said that criminal justice reform couldn't be done, but I got it done and the people in this room got it done.

Charles is one of the last surviving Tuskegee Airmen, the first black fighter pilots and he also happens to be Ian's great grandfather.

To expand equal opportunity, I am also proud that we achieved record and permanent funding for our nation's Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Now you might have heard Trump likes to say he's been good for African-Americans, but whether he can actually earn enough of their vote to make a difference remains to be seen.

At least one person, the President's son-in-law, Jared Kushner believes Trump needs to peel away just a small fraction of black voters support from Democrats to successfully win reelection.

With me now is CNN Political Commentator, Van Jones, who worked with Kushner to help pass the First Step Act. Simple question. Can Trump win enough black voters?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's a complicated question. The vast majority of African-Americans voted against him in 2016 and the vast majority will vote against him again. I think, 96 percent of black women voted for Hillary Clinton, 96 percent, that's close to unanimous. I think 88 percent of black men.

So if you say can he win the black vote? No, he cannot. However, this is where it gets complicated. In Michigan, which matters; in Pennsylvania which matters; in Wisconsin, which matters, can he shave off enough black votes to possibly put them in the winner's column? That is conceivable.

Because when you have 96 percent of the vote, there's only one way to go, which is down.

CUPP: Yes.

JONES: And so if you see any reduction at all in the black vote, it makes it tougher for Democrats.

CUPP: Well, listen, I applaud him making overtures you know to black voters. But I just wonder if the appeals to white nationalists, which is overt and the appeal to black voters, don't those things like cancel each other out?

JONES: Like ordinarily, this is like, you know, peanut butter and ketchup, you can't put them on the same sandwich, right? It's just --

CUPP: That's gross.

JONES: But it's going to be like, that's ordinarily what you're dealing with. There's something interesting about the Trump coalition, which is that it is so consolidated around him that no matter what he does, that you know, his core nativist bass is not going to leave him.

CUPP: Right.

JONES: So he actually ironically, by being so strong in his appeal to the nativist, he can actually reach out to others and not pay a cost.

[18:40:09]

CUPP: Do you think it's an authentic in that -- do you think this is really an appeal for white suburban women to say, I'm not all bad. I'm going to make you feel good. I'm doing something that you've criticized me, you know, for not doing?

JONES: You know, it's very hard to know why politicians do what they do. There's always a mix of motives. There's always a mix of pulls and pushes.

What I do know is this, Democrats have as our core vote, the African- American vote. That is the cornerstone of our party. And in some ways, there's a feeling that maybe we've taken that vote for granted for too long.

CUPP: Yes.

JONES: And that's why you see Democrats doing things now that you never saw them doing before, talking about everything from criminal justice reform to reparations and the whole thing, because it's suddenly a view -- hold on a second, if this constituency starts slipping away from us, we could be in real trouble.

And I think that there is, I think a sense inside the blue bubbles here in New York or LA saying, oh, he'll never get a single black vote. Well, they'll say, well, hold on a second. Well, why do you say that? Well, he said S-hole nation.

CUPP: Countries, right.

JONES: Then he said something about, you know, the Central Park Five, et cetera et cetera. You know what? For a lot of people, that's enough of a disqualifier, but you have other people who might say, well, he is doing something for black colleges. He is doing something about the criminal justice, I'll give him a listen.

CUPP: Right.

JONES: My warning to Democrats is do not take the black vote for granted in this election and don't pick somebody who's not going to appeal to the black people because you're going to really be hurting the cause.

CUPP: Well, I mean, as you know, Joe Biden has held the lion's share of African-American support going into this election. It's conceivable, he doesn't end up getting the nomination. Who gets his votes?

JONES: You know, that's going to be very, very interesting. I think Elizabeth Warren has real appeal and she is working really hard to get the black female vote.

I mean, the black women out vote everybody, like on a per capita basis that is the best possible group to have. She's going after that.

But it's really hard to know. People think that Bloomberg might be disqualified because of stop and frisk. I think not necessarily so.

For young voters, sure. But for older voters who are looking for someplace to go, they may, you know, have -- you know, they are going to see wall to wall blanket coverage and he does -- he can make the case on other issues. He may have a pathway for the black vote.

If Biden collapses, Bloomberg might actually be competitive, not with younger black voters, but with more reliable older black voters.

CUPP: I thought the Democrats spent a lot of time last night deservedly talking about race at the debate. Here's some of what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We've got to stop taking the black community for granted. That's the starting place.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Year after year after year, election after election after election. Democrats go to people in the black community and say, boy, we really care about these issues. Racism is terrible. We all want to do something. And then somehow, the problem just seems to keep getting worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Is this a little late?

JONES: It might be a little bit late. But I'll tell you what, it's good to hear some acknowledgement of that, because that is a consistent thing.

Listen, if you're an African-American voter, you understand. I get it. I'm supposed to stand in a five-hour long line in the freezing cold in Michigan so that Democrats can win, and then never speak to me again for four years.

CUPP: Right.

JONES: And it's gotten old and tired. And so I think that's -- and the other thing that happens within our party, is that, you know, we'll spend a billion dollars on an election, 97 percent of the campaign dollars go to white male owned firms.

And so, you know, so again, what is it we're getting out of this relationship? And so I think that's -- I think that it can strengthen the African-American community overall having the competition between the two parties.

For a long time, the black vote was taken for granted by Democrats and written off by Republicans.

CUPP: Yes.

JONES: That's not happening this year.

CUPP: Well, I wonder if you think Democrats have also left themselves a little vulnerable by focusing so much on impeachment and investigation, so not unimportant things.

But -- right, I wonder, you know, there might have been some more important issues to black voters.

JONES: You know, I would accuse my party at this point of having engaged in three years of fantasy football politics, where we said, okay, don't worry, Trump is never going to be ceded because the Electoral College will not cede him. Remember that?

CUPP: I do.

JONES: Oh, don't worry. Bob Mueller is going to take him out of the White House in handcuffs. Remember that?

CUPP: I do.

JONES: Oh, don't worry, he's going to be impeached and removed. Okay, now, after three years of all that fantasy football, guess what we have? Trump is still in the White House, and we still don't have a candidate.

And the way we've developed our issues may or may not even serve us. Had we spent the past three years accepting reality that a bunch of people who voted for Obama twice voted for Trump, hard to call them Nazis, and listen to them in addition to our own constituencies, and figure out what they needed, we might be in a position to have Trump on the run.

The reality is, all of the blood, sweat and tears over impeachment, Bob Mueller and all kinds of stuff has not done anything to dent Trump. Trump is actually higher in the polls that he has ever been and we still don't have a candidate.

[18:45:10]

CUPP: Yes. Good to see you. Thanks for coming by. I'm sure we'll have more of this discussion.

JONES: And on that cheery note.

CUPP: Really took the wind out of my sails. All right. One man did a remarkable thing this week. His job. That's next.

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[18:50:04]

CUPP: If it wasn't clear from President Trump's non-stop airing of grievances and revenge fantasies, he actually had a great week.

Impeachment acquittal, strong economic numbers, court victories, a made for TV State of the Union, all good for him.

The one dark spot for the President may serve as this country's bright spot. Senator Mitt Romney, the Utah senator solidified his place in history as the only member of the Senate to cast a vote to convict and impeach President from their own party. Not just now, I mean, ever. Here's how he explained his vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I'm a man of faith. I believe that when I swear an oath to God, I have responsibility to be exactly truthful and I am truthful and did what I believe was absolutely right for our country. And hope that going forward, people will say, well, whether I agreed with him or disagreed with him, at least he did what he thought was right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Not surprisingly, Trump in the White House are taking this personally and promising vengeance, not just against Mitt Romney, against anyone he perceives as having been disloyal during the impeachment process.

This week that included Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the Purple Heart recipient. He was escorted out of the White House yesterday. Former Ambassador to the E.U., Gordon Sondland, he was recalled from his post.

Now, that will have a chilling effect as intended, but whether Senator Mitt Romney can weather this storm may determine what kind of Republican Party and indeed Republic we have once we no longer have a President Trump.

With me now as former Romney presidential campaign adviser, Kevin Sheridan. Kevin, first I just want to ask what was your reaction to Romney's vote and speech on the Senate floor?

KEVIN SHERIDAN, FORMER ROMNEY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I was surprised that he cast that vote, but I wasn't shocked. I think we all thought that he may. He says he voted his conscience and I think we take him at his word for doing that.

And you know, this is not a popular position within the Republican Party. Obviously, he's the only one of all those senators, they all had to face the same vote and he came to a different decision than they did.

That said, I don't see him being like, completely ostracized from the party, as some have said, or, you know, vengeance is going to be taken against him.

I think life will move on. I think we'll get some mean tweets from the President and probably some lines at his rallies. But ultimately, I think people will move on to the next thing.

CUPP: Mitt's going to be okay. Democrats are lauding Romney's courage, deservedly, but I know you remember 2008 and 2012, I do, too. They tried to tell us that he was a monster, a racist, sexist monster. Do you think the Democrats regret that now or should they?

SHERIDAN: Well, it's not lost on anybody who watched the 2012 campaign. I worked on it like I did.

It is galling to hear people now saying what a man of principle he is when they were trashing him for everything under the sun in 2012, and really smearing a good man.

And, look, this is who he is. He voted his conscience, and I think we should take him for his word on that. He is going to have to face his voters. He is going to have to go back and explain the vote to them.

I'm sure this will not be a super popular thing within his party, a little more in Utah than other places.

But, look, Joe Manchin is going to have to go back to West Virginian and explain his vote, too, because that's very unpopular in West Virginia as well.

So, you know, you've got a couple of cases where this was a very tough vote. And, you know, we'll see how they make their explanations.

CUPP: Some will say -- some are saying that Romney could afford to make this vote because he's not up for reelection until 2024.

But you know, him. Do you think if he'd been up for reelection this year in 2020, do you think he would have made the same vote? SHERIDAN: I can only guess. I really don't know. I haven't talked to

his team about it extensively, but I think -- I think it's likely at this stage of his career that he probably feels a lot more liberated to do what he sees as his conscience is, what he wants to do.

You know, he's already -- he's lost a presidential race, and that's the toughest thing you can do. And so I think he's just going to, you know, follow his own path and let the chips fall where they may.

CUPP: Do you expect him to talk more about this vote and his decision over the next few days, weeks months? Or do you expect him to kind of put it behind him?

SHERIDAN: Well, he did a pretty extensive round of interviews? And he has made his position pretty clear.

So I don't know how long this story really has to last. I mean, in our news cycles, we've got hundreds of things going on between now and the election, and I think we're probably going to get right into another controversy that he'll have to weigh in on then.

CUPP: Yes, well, I mean, knowing Trump, you know, this story will not go away if Trump keeps tweeting about it, and Trump keeps bringing it up at rallies. I wonder if Mitt Romney feels like you know he's going to have to maybe be defending this for the next four years, potentially.

[18:55:04]

SHERIDAN: Yes, or you know when Impeachment 2 comes along and see how he votes then. Because the Democrats are not going to let this go away. They're going to find something else --

CUPP: Oh, you said a mouthful there. Kevin, all right. Kevin Sheridan, strong beard. I appreciate it and thanks for coming on.

SHERIDAN: Oh, I knew you'd like it.

CUPP: That's it for me. All right, guys, quick programming note.

Get ready for the story of the world's most famous Royal Family. CNN presents "The Windsors: Inside the Royal Dynasty," premiering February 16th at 10:00 p.m.

Ana Cabrera is back with the latest headlines in the "NEWSROOM." That's next.

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