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DOJ Stuns With Extraordinary Reversal On Roger Stone Sentencing; Candidates Flock To Polling Stations As New Hampshire Voters Cast Ballots; President Trump Telling Supporters To Vote For The Weakest Democrat. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 11, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:13]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN and let's get straight to this just absolutely stunning about face right now by the Department of Justice rebuking its own Federal prosecutors on their sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone, a longtime confidant of President Trump.

Now the DOJ's backtrack is coming barely hours after the President raged on Twitter at Stone's pending sentencing and it whipped up speculation that he is going to pardon him.

Here's how all of this is unfolding. Just yesterday, Federal prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington, D.C. asked a judge to sentence Roger Stone to seven to nine years in prison for obstruction, for witness tampering, for making false statements to Congress -- all charges stemming from Robert Mueller's Russia probe.

But today, a senior Justice Department official told CNN this, "The Department was shocked to see the sentencing recommendation. This is not what had been briefed to the Department. The Department believes the recommendation is extreme and excessive, and is grossly disproportionate to Stone's offenses."

The Justice Department further saying it will, " ... clarify its position with the court later today." All of this is coming just hours after the President, as I mentioned, angrily tweeted about Stone's sentencing recommendation. This is what he wrote. "This is a horrible and very unfair situation. The real crimes were on the other side as nothing happens to them. Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice."

So let's dive in with CNN Crime and Justice Reporter, Shimon Prokupecz, and former New Jersey Attorney General and CNN Legal Analyst, Anne Milgram.

And just out of the gate, to you first, like this is the DOJ sharply criticizing the DOJ This never happens correct?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: It's very -- it's unprecedented. You're absolutely right. This just doesn't happen. And what this shows us in some ways is that you have a line assistance, U.S. attorneys who are trying these cases, investigating these cases, prosecuting these cases, and it would seem that they're not in sync with what is going on over at the Main Justice and Bill Barr.

BALDWIN: How are they not?

PROKUPECZ: And that's the big question. What is really going on here? And of course, you have to raise all sorts of questions, and you have to ask, if somehow Bill Barr is interfering, is meddling in what prosecutors here are doing. And is that because of Roger Stone's relationship with the President, that has to be one of the first things that folks are thinking.

And I think in talking to -- you know, as this was developing, I was talking to people at a certain U.S. Attorney's Office, and people were shocked. I think people were really surprised. And this is throughout the Department of Justice, throughout U.S. attorneys all around this country right now are probably having the same reaction and wondering what is going on here.

BALDWIN: You are shocked.

ANNE MILGRAM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I was shocked, and a couple of quick points. I was at Main Justice, the review that you go through before you make a sentencing recommendation and submit a memo like that to the court, it's multi levels. So there's no possible way that the U.S. Attorney did not sign off on it.

And it's been reported that the Department of Justice was also briefed, at least in some way. That's the first point. The second point, and I think what's so troubling about this is it looks like the President is tweeting out and changing the recommendations of a law enforcement agency that should be making the decision. Roger Stone was convicted of seven counts at a criminal trial that ended in November.

The prosecutors get to, you know, go through this process review, but it should be absent politics.

BALDWIN: Two questions for you, just to follow up. One, did you think seven to nine years is aggressive? Or --

MILGRAM: So this is an interesting thing, because normally, if you think about this type of a case, like think about Scooter Libby, who got you know, a little less than three years.

The difference here is the witness tampering piece of the Roger Stone case, and that sentence alone could be up to 20 years and so remember that Stone had threatened Credico. He made death threats.

There's a question as to whether or not Credico, who is the witness who he was threatening whether he took them seriously. During trial, he testified that he did, that it could impact him.

PROKUPECZ: And the jury believed him.

MILGRAM: And the jury believed him.

PROKUPECZ: They convicted Roger Stone on this. MILGRAM: So that's how we get what is such a high sentencing range.

And look, at the end of the day, the judge is going to get to decide should we be adding those extra points on for these threats?

But to me, it's totally legitimate for the government to have asked for that.

BALDWIN: So this judge, remind us Judge Amy Berman Jackson, she was the one in the photo with the crosshairs --

PROKUPECZ: That's right. That's exactly right. And she's with the gag order.

BALDWIN: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: And many times, you know, I was covering this case, I was covering this trial. And many times, you know, when we were covering this case, you'd wonder if she was going to revoke his bail status and send them to jail.

BALDWIN: She is tough.

PROKUPECZ: She's tough. So she's going to be wondering what is going on here? Why is Main Justice having this view on it? And why are the prosecutors who were before my court, she has listened to every piece of evidence, a jury that was seated in her courtroom convicted Roger Stone. Why do you, Main Justice now have a different view of what's going on here?

MILGRAM: And it looks terrible, right? I mean, she ultimately gets to decide. The prosecution files memo. The defense files memo. They've both filed those memos.

BALDWIN: She's seen the receipts.

MILGRAM: She has seen those. Exactly.

[14:05:06]

BALDWIN: She has seen the unredacted Mueller report and she also, by the way, has this Trump tweet right in the back of her head. And she's like, what is up with this? How does she -- how does she decide?

MILGRAM: So it's an interesting question. I think this actually hurts Roger Stone in the end. I think she might have been more likely to be around four years, five years, short of something like this. Now, it's a question -- like, it's a really open question in my mind where she goes.

PROKUPECZ: One of the important things in the justice system, right, is that you want people to know when to get special treatment. And for a judge, if she's sitting there and seeing all of this, knowing everything she knows about this case, and if she somehow thinks that Roger Stone is getting special treatment because of his relationship with the President, that's where I think what Anne here is saying. That's where this could potentially hurt Roger Stone. BALDWIN: Isn't she also thinking Trump may pardon him?

MILGRAM: Right.

BALDWIN: How much would that factor? And by the way, could he pardon him now?

MILGRAM: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MILGRAM: I mean, he could pardon him at any moment in time, even before the trial, he could have pardoned him. He has chosen not to do that. It feels weird to me to pardon him, you know, he let him go through trial. It feels weird to pardon him now before sentence.

PROKUPECZ: I just want to make one point, and this is this is -- you know, covering this trial, what was so important in this case was the prosecutors, they were very concerned that the jurors weren't going to take this seriously. And this is their whole argument in their closing arguments, why this case matters, and it's about truth. And it's about systems and about justice, and about precedent and about the systems that we have in place within our justice system.

Within Congress, when you go before Congress, you're expected to tell the truth, and that's what was so important for prosecutors and their arguments to the jury. This is what they were arguing. Truth matters. We have to treat this seriously.

And now when you see something like this, you have to wonder what prosecutors -- how they're feeling. And I think that to me, is one of the things that I keep thinking these prosecutors were in these -- who are trying these cases into the Department of Justice and to see something like this.

BALDWIN: It is shocking.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: Close this out.

MILGRAM: Yes. I mean, look, it makes me very concerned that Bill Barr who is the Attorney General is compromised, that the decisions are being made based on politics. I mean, it certainly looks -- you know, I was there for almost five years. I've never seen anything like this.

And, and we've seen it also with the Michael Flynn sentencing. They've gone back and forth on him and again, it looks political.

And so it's a really terrible thing for the institution to be put in this kind of a position.

BALDWIN: No, I think, for you to say you've never seen anything like this. This is unprecedented. I think it speaks volumes. Guys, thank you very much for that. I want to bring in CNN politics reporter and editor-at-large, Chris

Cillizza now. And Chris, you know, you and I were just talking yesterday about all the ways President Trump has not learned from his impeachment.

And yet, you know, the tweet, the discussion we just had, like here we are again.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes. I mean, I keep playing that Susan Collins quote in my head where, you know, she thinks he's learned his lesson. I would say it's the opposite at this point, Brooke, that he feels less bound in many ways.

Let's just run through some of the things politically he's done and then sort of the investigative actions. Okay. He has gotten rid of witnesses. Alex Vindman, Gordon Sondland. These are people who testified. They're members of the Trump administration, but testified against him and they have been removed.

He has attacked, among others, Mitt Romney, a Republican Senator, who by the way was the party's 2012 presidential nominee, Doug Jones, a Democrat from Alabama, Joe Manchin, who we refer to as pejoratively in a tweet as a donut related person. So that's just that.

Okay, last Thursday, it feels like a millennium ago, but last Thursday, Donald Trump was at the White House celebrating basically spiking the football with all of his Republican hangers on after he had been acquitted holding up the newspaper, "The Washington Post" saying Trump acquitted, saying this was a witch hunt. These people are evil, suggesting that Nancy Pelosi the Speaker of the House uses religion as a crutch.

Speaking of Mitt Romney and trust me there's a lot more so I'll try to be brief. Speaking of Mitt Romney, Donald Trump has also tweeted out a totally un-fact based conspiracy theory that somehow Mitt Romney and his sons have business in Ukraine and that there's something going on there. He's never really explained that because there's nothing to explain because there's no there, there.

Okay, now, we have stuff he has done, sort of more officially to using the powers of government. They have pushed Republicans to announce a review of Joe Biden's interactions in the Ukraine.

Again, everyone who has looked at this has said, there's no there, there. But he has done that. He now has created or at least his Attorney General, his handpicked Attorney General Bill Barr has created a sort of separate channel by which Rudy Giuliani, the President's personal lawyer and the conspiracy theory in chief other than the President can funnel information he gets from Ukraine which even Republican senators have said, you need to be a little bit circumspect about, funnel it into the DOJ so that they will look at it and then what you were just talking about.

The President of the United States tweets that his own Department of Justice has been overly harsh by suggesting seven and nine years in prison for Roger Stone, a longtime Trump adviser for his role in the Mueller probe with the Russians meddling in the election.

Even if he didn't do that, even if DOJ didn't change and say, oh, it's too extreme. Think about what message that would send anyway, Brooke.

[14:10:11]

CILLIZZA: The president of the United States who has pardon power, unquestioned pardon power, essentially saying my Department of Justice is being too hard on this guy. What do you think Roger Stone thinks? I'm getting a pardon.

So again, that's seven things. We could probably do more, but it just shows that if you thought Donald Trump was sort of unbound from norms before, look at what he's done since that acquittal vote which by the way was six days ago and consider what the next nine months are going to look like. Brooke, back to you.

BALDWIN: I keep having that song lyric "Ain't nobody hold me down. Nobody can stop me now." Like loan them to Donald Trump.

CILLIZZA: That's -- he doesn't learn the --

BALDWIN: An acquitted Donald Trump. Yes.

CILLIZZA: The lesson he learns -- just to bookmark it was Susan Collins. The lesson he learns is I can now do anything. I've been acquitted. They're not going to impeach me again. He doesn't learn. He has not -- he doesn't apologize like Bill Clinton did after his being acquitted impeachment. He celebrates and that's a fundamental difference between the two men.

BALDWIN: Yes. Chris, thank you.

CILLIZZA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Right now, voters in New Hampshire are hitting the polls as candidates are crisscrossing the state attempting to shore up last minute support and after the mess that was Iowa, everyone is looking for a win.

Plus, is Joe Biden already looking past New Hampshire? We are still hours away from the polls closing, yet the former VP announces that he is heading to South Carolina tonight.

And as health officials around the globe scramble to fight the deadly coronavirus, President Trump has a new plan. Wait for warmer weather. Really?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:05]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. Turning now to the 2020 campaign, all eyes are on New Hampshire where a week after the first votes were cast in the 2020 primary season, the Democrats who would be President are hoping the second time around is a whole lot smoother. Several candidates crisscrossing the state today making a last minute

pitch to those who are still on the fence while also thinking supporters.

And when asked how they think the night will end, we got cautious optimism from some and declarations of victory from others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've got a lot of good friends here in New Hampshire, but this race ain't over until you've got a significant portion of the electorate hadn't voted yet. We're still mildly hopeful here in New Hampshire, and then we'll see what happens.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This turnout tells me why we're going to win here in New Hampshire.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Something is happening here, and we just want to seize the moment. So I'm going to work my heart out all day.

QUESTION: Mr. Mayor, you're going to win here today?

PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We think so. It feels fantastic. Volunteers are fired up and energy on the ground is wonderful.

QUESTION: Is that the way it looks like, Mayor?

BUTTIGIEG: We're encouraged. What's that?

QUESTION: Is that the way it looks like?

BUTTIGIEG: I'll let you all work that out.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've got the best chance of beating Donald Trump because I'm going to bring this party together. I'm going to run on core Democratic values. And I'm going to fight hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN is hitting the trail with a bunch of those candidates. So let's kick it all off with Jessica Dean who is in Nashua, New Hampshire -- Jessica.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke. I'm with the Biden campaign, and today, Joe Biden telling reporters he feels mildly hopeful about what's going to happen here in New Hampshire tonight, but to really give you some insight into what he and his campaign are thinking, we've learned he and Jill Biden will be traveling to South Carolina tonight, the night of the New Hampshire primaries instead of staying here and watching the results come in in full.

They will travel to South Carolina, which has long been considered to be their firewall there with African-American support, and it tells you a lot about how important that state is going to be for the campaign.

So we'll see how things ultimately play out here in New Hampshire, but there's no doubt that the Biden campaign is focused on Nevada and certainly South Carolina.

Let's pass it off now to my colleague, Kyung Lah -- Kyung.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm with the Klobuchar campaign in Manchester. From underdog to projecting confidence, the Klobuchar campaign, who has seen larger crowds in these closing days in New Hampshire, now today, said that victory for this campaign would mean doing better than she did in Iowa.

Here's what Amy Klobuchar told reporters at a campaign stop today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: But as usual, what I want to see is that we have based on where we were a week ago that we have defied expectations. That's what we've done every step of the way in this campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: And should she beat Joe Biden in the New Hampshire primary, it would certainly accomplish that. Now, to my colleague, Ryan Nobles elsewhere in the state.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's looking more and more like tonight could come down to a battle between Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg. The two are running neck and neck in many of the polling heading into the vote here in New Hampshire. And it's evident by the way, the two have been interacting with each other.

Sanders attacking Buttigieg's donor base and it could influence him if he were elected President. Buttigieg accusing Sanders and his ideas of being too radical for the average voter.

Now polls do show Sanders with a slight edge here and it may be more important for him to win. This is a state that he won comfortably four years ago, and he is of course from nearby Vermont.

But the Sanders team believes that even if he doesn't pull out a victory here, he still has a lot of money, resources and support and the state is going ahead.

As for Buttigieg, a better than expected showing could help him to coalesce moderate support, particularly with both Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden's campaigns appearing to be falling behind. Let's now go to Miguel Marquez.

[14:20:01]

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So we are at Ward One in Dover. There are six wards here and this is what it's been like most of the day -- slow but steady, and the moderators at wards across the city are saying much the same in the number of voters they are getting.

They're averaging about 150 voters an hour here. That would put them at about 2016 level, but not 2008 when Barack Obama was running and there was great Democratic enthusiasm. We are not seeing that so far. Although they may get a late rush.

I've been doing my own sort of unofficial exit poll as voters leave here. Most people -- this is a very liberal area of New Hampshire, most people supporting Bernie Sanders, a lot of people, number two, saying Pete Buttigieg they like. Amy Klobuchar, interestingly enough.

A lot of people say they've come round to her since her performance in the debate last week. And then Elizabeth Warren rounding all that out. Most surprising here is that of all the voters I've talked to and we're talking probably upwards of a hundred right now, not a single one saying they support Joe Biden.

I'm Miguel Marquez in Dover, New Hampshire -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Miguel and to the rest of you, thank you. Also in New Hampshire, blatant interference and recycled lies.

Listen to this, President Trump telling supporters to vote for the weakest Democrat while reviving old stories that they have zero basis in reality. We'll talk about that ahead.

And more on Joe Biden's plan as Jessica was mentioning to leave New Hampshire for South Carolina tonight. What message does that send to voters in New Hampshire as they are hitting the polls? You're watching CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:17]

BALDWIN: Wherever the Democrats go to campaign, President Trump isn't too far behind and New Hampshire is no exception.

At his own rally in Manchester, New Hampshire last night, the President seemed to encourage his supporters to vote in today's Democratic primary for the candidate he thinks will be the weakest General Election challenger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We hear that there could be -- because you have crossovers in primaries, don't you? So I hear a lot of Republicans tomorrow will vote for the weakest candidate possible of the Democrats. Does that makes sense? You people wouldn't do that.

My only problem is I'm trying to figure out who is their weakest candidate. I think they're all weak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to CNN's Daniel Dale. He is here for another fact check and then we'll talk through some of the assertions the President made last night.

But first things first, just remind -- what are the rules in terms of voting for another party in New Hampshire, Daniel?

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: So the rules are that registered Republicans are not in fact allowed to vote in today's Democratic primary in New Hampshire.

People who are undeclared voters, basically, Independents, not aligned with either party can show up at the polls and sign up to vote for Democrats.

But if you're a registered Republican, you can't change your registration today, you just can vote for the weakest Democrat as the President advised.

BALDWIN: Okay. And let's get to this. Here's a claim the President made about Democrats bussing in voters from Massachusetts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Remember last time? We won the primary tremendously. We should have won the election, but they had buses being shipped up from Massachusetts, hundreds and hundreds of buses.

[BOOING]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Where did he get that?

DALE: He either got that from his own brain or from someone else who made it up and told it to him. This is a lie. This is fiction much like the President's lie/fiction about millions of illegal immigrants voting in California in 2016.

New Hampshire election authorities investigated these allegations, found no evidence that people were being bused in from out of state to vote illegally in 2016.

Even Trump's former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who is a New Hampshire man himself has said publicly, he himself has seen no evidence for that claim.

BALDWIN: Okay, debunked. Now, to this, the President spent a lot of time last night talking about healthcare. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are protecting people with preexisting conditions and we always will, the Republican Party --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The Republican Party, he says always will. We've heard that before, haven't we?

DALE: We have and it's still egregiously false. Trump and the Republican Party have repeatedly promoted bills that would significantly weaken these protections for people with preexisting conditions.

And at present, right now, the Trump administration is supporting a Republican lawsuit that seeks to get the courts to eradicate, overturn the entirety of Obamacare.

Now Trump has started saying in the past couple of days that that's okay because if that happens, there'll be some other plan that will preserve these protections.

Well, if there is going to be such a plan, I mean, it's possible, he has steadfastly refused to release it. We have no details on that whatsoever.

BALDWIN: Last fact check, Daniel, so when talking about funding that would benefit the National Guard, the President said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are funding for New Hampshire, the New Hampshire Army National Guard Readiness Centers just a few miles from here in Pembroke, and in Concord. Concord. I love Concord. I love Concord. Oh Concord.

You know, famous Concord is? Concord. That's the same Concord that we read about all the time. Right? Concord. I love Concord.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:30:09]