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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Sanders Riding High; Dow Plunges Over 1,000 Points. Aired 4- 4:30p ET
Aired February 24, 2020 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And those cases are popping up in countries outside of China, that's what sparked this dramatic sell-off today.
One of the big worries is that the virus could spread to countries that would not be able to contain the virus. And so we see the Dow now closing down over 1,000 points.
That means that the Dow has erase all of its gains for the year, even getting into negative territory for 2020. So, with investors now paying attention, they are reassessing the impact of the coronavirus, not just on the global economy, but on companies as well.
And that is why you are seeing shares get hit, everyone from airlines to theme parks like Disney down 5 percent, cruise lines like Royal Caribbean down more than 8 percent.
If you want an analogy, you look at the U.S.-China trade war in 2018- 2019, that was the wild card. Jake, the coronavirus is going to be the X-factor in 2020 -- Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, thank you so much, Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange, where the market is down more than 1,000 points.
Let's bring in CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar.
Rana Foroohar, thanks for joining us.
To be honest here, I'm confused, because the coronavirus has been spreading throughout Asia and the world now for weeks. What makes today so different for investors?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: It's really a perfect storm.
You have now got markets falling in Japan, in South Korea, in Italy. You have got American companies issuing warnings, saying, we're not going to meet our revenue expectations because of this. And you have China. Fundamentally, you have China playing a much, much bigger part in the global economy. If you look back 20 years ago at the SARS epidemic, for example, China
was 4 percent of the global economy. Today, it's 16 percent. So what happens there matters.
TAPPER: And the Dow has now lost all the gains that made so far in 2020. It's still obviously up quite a bit.
FOROOHAR: Yes.
TAPPER: But is -- are those losses bad for 401(k)s, other investments that rely on the stock market?
FOROOHAR: Hundred percent.
And what's interesting is, coronavirus was going to be bad, no matter what, because of the weight of China. But it's pushing the sort of nervousness that are already existed in the markets.
We're at the tail end of a recovery cycle. We have had a lot of juice put into the stock market over the last couple of years. Investors are ready to be worried about something. It's also making people really focused on the U.S.-China trade conflict and whether that has, in fact, been resolved.
We have seen this trade agreement, but this process of decoupling of those two economies, I think a lot of CEOs I talk to are taking a very close look at doing business in China and what the risks are going to be going forward. And that's going to have an impact on their profits, on their supply chains, and beyond just this quarter.
TAPPER: Can you compare the potential impact of the coronavirus to any other economic crisis in history? Is there anything that you're hoping it doesn't get as bad as or anything that comes to mind?
FOROOHAR: Yes.
It's interesting. There's no perfect analogy, but I would compare it to a natural disaster, like, for example, the tsunami that we saw a few years back in Japan that disrupted the auto supply chains.
What's different this time around is, you're going to have a couple of quarters of big impact. But I think that you are going to see decoupling speed up because of this. I think that the fact that the Chinese regime was not transparent about what was happening with the virus, the fact that we are still so vulnerable to supply chains in China, I think a lot of businesses are just going to say, you know what, this is the tipping point, and we're going to see that pulling away.
TAPPER: Several companies, as you mentioned, Apple, Coca-Cola, General Motors, American companies, have all warned that the coronavirus could hurt their sales.
How long do you think this might linger in 2020?
FOROOHAR: I think it's going to linger at least for a couple of quarters in terms of the real economic hit. But I think the question then is, how is the world going to shift?
Is the U.S. and China and Europe, are we all going in different directions? Are technology companies going to have to find new places to produce their semiconductors? Who's going to buy Apple products in China now? Are we going to be entirely separate tech ecosystems?
I think those are the questions.
TAPPER: And, obviously, this plays into politics. President Trump as has his -- perhaps the strongest argument for his reelection the fact that the economy is doing so well. That could affect his reelection chances.
FOROOHAR: Yes, it's really fascinating. There's sort of two trends pushing and pulling at the same time.
You have got coronavirus potentially causing a real headwind to the economy around November, the time of the election. If the economy's not strong, then the president loses one of his major arguments on the stump.
On the other hand, you have markets saying, we don't think Bernie can win. We'd rather have Trump than Bernie. Bernie is now looking like he's possibly the Democratic nominee. So there's a real push-pull, and it's hard to see where the markets are going to be and where the economy is going to be around this in November.
TAPPER: Interesting.
Rana Foroohar, thank you so much.
Obviously, this is also a human tragedy, primarily a human tragedy.
Let's go to soon as Melissa Bell in Italy, where coronavirus cases suddenly surged past 200, the largest cluster west of Asia.
And, Melissa, it's the speed of the spike that has so many people concerned.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake.
We were looking at fewer than five cases at the end of last week, Thursday, Friday. We're now at 229 confirmed cases. Italian authorities have just confirmed the seventh death.
[16:05:03]
And what has that meant? It's meant the -- for the first time, a western liberal democracy having to lock down entire villages and towns.
Some 100,000 in Northern Italy right now are essentially imprisoned inside their own villages and cities with all kinds of measures that have been put in place -- had to be put in place to keep them in there, for instance, jail sentences, if they try and leave or come into zones that they're not allowed to do so. So that is adding to a huge amounts of worry in this particular part
of the world. Remember also that Europe has open borders, no system of harmonized public health policy, so all kinds of questions from neighboring countries about what that very sudden spread is going to mean.
Bear in mind also that patient zero here in Italy hasn't been found. That means, Jake, that, essentially, we don't know how we got here. We don't know how fast it's spreading. And we don't know exactly how far it's spread yet.
TAPPER: As you know, Melissa, parts of Italy are actually literally on lockdown, public events canceled, public buildings shut down.
How widespread is the lockdown itself?
BELL: Well, for the time being, cities like this, Venice, you have seen it, because the carnival that was meant to last until Tuesday ended on Sunday night. The Basilica behind me has been closed. All the museums in the Veneto region of Italy also closed. Schools have been closed.
There is a sense of urgency, many questions, though, about what happens next and exactly how many towns and cities and how many parts of Italy and how many borders are going to be locked down still.
But authorities are really grappling with something new. It is, as you say, that suddenness that has led to the uncertainty, all kinds of questions about what happens next and exactly how far this is going to go, with authorities here essentially now, several weeks after what happened in Asia, grappling with that fundamental question of how to ensure that public health is ensured, public safety is ensured, but panic isn't -- doesn't set in too quickly and the economy is protected as well, Jake
TAPPER: All right, Melissa Bell in Venice, Italy, thank you so much. And stay safe, please.
Coming up, Senator Bernie Sanders looking to deal a decisive blow in the next few days. Could Super Tuesday be his Kryptonite, or could it seal his victory?
And are we seeing the real lesson President Trump learned from impeachment? His plans to clear the way of all opposition within his own administration.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:11:28]
TAPPER: And we're back with the 2020 lead and a pivotal nine days that could make or break the presidential dreams of any number of candidates, while Senator Bernie Sanders submits his front-runner status. We have CNN town halls with the candidate starting tonight. Then there's a presidential debate tomorrow, the South Carolina primary on Saturday, Super Tuesday a week from tomorrow, 15 states voting in this eight-day time period with more than a third of all delegates up for grabs.
And, as CNN's Jessica Dean reports from the campaign trail, Bernie Sanders' campaign is upping its efforts in South Carolina, looking to deliver a death blow to his Democratic competitors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democratic front-runner Senator Bernie Sanders riding high after a blowout win in Nevada.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, I have been hearing the establishment is getting a little bit nervous about our campaign.
DEAN: With a recent CBS News/YouGov polls showing Sanders in striking distance of former Vice President Joe Biden in South Carolina, the Vermont senator is looking to build on his momentum in the Palmetto State and beyond into Super Tuesday.
Biden is hoping to halt Sanders' progress.
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As I said all along, it's not just, can you beat Donald Trump? Can you bring along, can you keep a Democratic House of Representatives in the United States Congress, and can you bring along a Democratic Senate?
DEAN: Sanders pushed back against questions about his electability, going so far as to read his own poll numbers at a rally in Texas, a Super Tuesday contest.
SANDERS: General election, CBS, Sanders 47, Trump 44.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: In the key battleground states, Michigan, Sanders 48, Trump 41.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DEAN: Still, Sanders' rivals now even more aggressive in their attacks, former Mayor Pete Buttigieg saying the Democratic nominee should be -- quote -- "galvanizing," not polarizing.
PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I also believe that the way we will build the movement to defeat Donald Trump is to call people into our tents, not to call them names online.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to have someone heading up this ticket who's going to lead our party, so that we win not just the presidency, but the House of Representatives, as well as the U.S. Senate. DEAN: As Sanders strengthens his position in the primary, he's also drawing scrutiny for his comments to "60 Minutes" offering a partial defense of Fidel Castro's Cuban revolution.
SANDERS: We're very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba. But you got -- it's unfair to simply say everything is bad. When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing, even though Fidel Castro did it?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: A lot of dissidents in prison.
SANDERS: That's right. And we condemn that.
DEAN: Those remarks drawing criticism from Florida Democrats, including first-term Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who called them -- quote -- "absolutely unacceptable."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DEAN: Now, the Biden, Buttigieg and Bloomberg campaigns also criticizing Sanders' comments about Cuba.
And, interesting, a Bloomberg adviser telling my colleague Dan Merica that tomorrow night's debate should be about one candidate, Bernie Sanders, that they really see tomorrow as their last, best chance to really go after his record and ideas before Super Tuesday -- Jake.
TAPPER: He's been the front-runner for months. I'm glad they're finally realizing that.
Jessica Dean, thanks so much.
Let's talk about this all.
And with this front-runner status finally dawning on some of these candidates, Bernie Sanders is getting a lot of scrutiny.
[16:15:00]
There's new digital video from the Bloomberg campaign, Aisha, attacking Sanders' record on guns, saying it is a potential weak point for Sanders in the primary. He has, in the past, been a supporter of pro-gun measures. Do you think this could hurt him even though he has changed his position?
AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that this is his record and it's smart to call it out. He is the frontrunner and so, when we got to the debates tomorrow night, I think on the stage, people didn't come after him about it as well.
What's interesting, though, is the point that you originally made about how people finally figured out Bernie Sanders is the front- runner and coming after him.
TAPPER: And that's because they were all going after Bloomberg. MOODIE-MILLS: Right, because he's spending all the money. But the
truth is, is that Bernie Sanders right now is the only person who's really creating a groundswell and a movement, a movement in this country. Other candidates might have some good polling, they might be raising some money, but he's got people power behind him, and that's what folks who are attacking, this people power. And I think that is to a detriment of the Democratic Party, because we're going to need that engine of enthusiasm come November to actually beat Donald Trump.
So I wonder if the attacking of Bernie Sanders is actually attacking his people, and those people ultimately are suppressed at the end of the day.
TAPPER: Interesting. And, Patrick, it's not just Democrats saying that, it's some Republicans are looking at Sanders and the people behind him and saying who knows what's going to happen. This guy might be able to give the president a run for his money.
Here's Senator Tim Scott, Republican from South Carolina. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that Bernie Sanders is the biggest threat to President Trump right now?
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): I do think so. If there is a second choice other than himself, it would be Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders brings that outside game in a similar fashion that President Trump did in 2016.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What do you think?
PATRICK GRIFFIN, REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: I think Bernie Sanders is Donald Trump's biggest problem. I think it's Donald Trump, Jake, from the other side of the room.
Look, they are two very loud, very angry populists. Both will make this more of a screaming act than a thoughtful campaign about policy. But more importantly, Bernie Sanders' socialist issue which, you know, the president will bring up again and again, that's half the problem. The bigger problem is the hypocrite issue I think.
And as a white hot like of sort of front runner ship on him right now, when he's asked to explain socialism or he's asked about his gun votes and challenged by Bloomberg, it's kind of hard to explain the way socialism works because it doesn't work, and it's never worked. The math doesn't add up. It is going to get tougher and tougher.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, there are so many crocodile tears about -- from Trumpists running against Bernie Sanders, because guess what? Spoiler alert, they want to run against Bernie Sanders. So, you know, Tim Scott, you can bring up parallels about play to the
base populists that excite the base and that nobody thought would have a chance of being a president, and here they come in front-runner status. The parallels stop about there, particularly when you look at just basic electability. There's a reason Republican Republicans want to run against Bernie Sanders. He's their dream, he's their bumper sticker they have been running against in phantom form forever.
He also makes something like Florida look less likely since the comments about Castro the other night.
Look, we've had two caucuses, play to the folks do well there. We've had one primary in a state in a state where Sanders neighbors. South Carolina is going to be a big test. He pulled together an impressive win in Nevada. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. And after that, it's Super Tuesday.
I would argue that the reason Democrats haven't gone after him, is because they're afraid of alienating his base. They realize he motivated a movement.
TAPPER: Yes, that's probably true.
AVLON: But that haven't worked yet.
TAPPER: Melanie, South Carolina is really important not just for Bernie Sanders, it's really for Vice President Joe Biden. Here he is, a lot of people saying he needs to win South Carolina or his campaign is dead.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: South Carolina, though, is your firewall.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You said it's my firewall. I've never said --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your campaign has said it's your firewall.
BIDEN: No, there's not fire -- I said I'm going to do well there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Biden said I never said South Carolina was his firewall. Is that true?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I think I have a real firewall in South Carolina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
MOODIE-MILLS: So, the hypocrisy of all the candidates. There are receipts and tapes for everything they say.
TAPPER: Look, I understand you don't want to set expectations and then not meet them. But, I mean, he did say it was his firewall.
MELANIE ZANONA, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: He did say that and perhaps he's trying to downplay it because there are serious cracks in the firewall. And make no mistake, Biden and his campaign are banking on support from black voters in South Carolina to propel him to victory in this primary. And we have seen, the polls that come up, "The Wall Street Journal" and NBC just had a poll last week that said the level of support between Sanders and Biden on the ground there is actually the same level of support.
So, they are making in roads of black voters, Steyer is also catching up to him in the polls. So, perhaps he is trying to temper expectations because he just needs to hold onto that.
MOODIE-MILLS: The Biden campaign has been strategic about that if you saw this weekend. The talking points now from the Biden camp are trying to really show Bernie Sanders being anti-Obama, and that he was going to primary Obama in 2012.
In doing that in an interesting time because we are going to South Carolina and wanting to pull some of that black vote away from Bernie Sanders.
[16:20:03]
GRIFFIN: But that momentum, Jake, you cannot -- this momentum is hard to erase. Mike Bloomberg waiting to get in, other Democrats hoping to stay in. Bernie has gotten momentum, and he is doing it maybe only in three places. But Nevada was a good show of black, brown supporters, other than white supporters, in New Hampshire and Iowa. Very, very hard to turn this around.
I'll tell you this -- Joe Biden has to win tomorrow, and that comment was downright Trumpian. That was a great bit of tape.
TAPPER: On Saturday, yes, the South Carolina primary.
Everyone, stick around. We got more to talk about.
You can hear more from Democratic presidential candidate, Senator Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, Tom Steyer tonight in CNN live town halls in South Carolina. It all starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
And then Wednesday night, a second night of CNN town halls with former Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and former Vice President Joe Biden, Senators Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren.
Coming up, the loyalty list. New details on President Trump's plan to surround himself with yes people.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:25:50]
TAPPER: In our politics lead, a Trump adviser tells CNN that Trump allies have been working on a running list of people inside the Trump administration who they consider to be never Trumpers. Since his Senate acquittal, the president has been on something of a vengeance tour, firing anyone he views as disloyal during the Ukraine scandal.
But now, the president wants to go even further and is telling aides he wants only loyalists working in key positions.
As CNN's Kaitlan reports, it appears a purge is coming.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For a president obsessed with loyalty, Donald Trump is on a new pursuit to weed out staffers who aren't devoted enough.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want loyalty to the United States of America.
COLLINS: Sources say Trump has told aides he wants fewer people working for him and only those who are aggressively advancing his agenda. Since he took office, the president's allies have given him hiring and firing suggestions based on how loyal the candidates are. And Trump appears to be reviewing those in his post-impeachment purge.
HOGAN GIDLEY, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, if there are any lists, I'm not seeing them. We know people are actively working against this president.
COLLINS: As first reported by "Axios", conservative figures like Jenny Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thompson, are giving Trump this list as an appeal to his need for loyalty. It's left some officials worried about false attacks.
REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): He's more worried about someone who has personal loyalty than he is about worried about getting the facts.
COLLINS: The president already has multiple aides serving in acting capacities, including his chief of staff, who didn't make the 8,000- mile trip to India, after catching a cold. Mick Mulvaney's absence may not have been noticed much by Trump who's been surrounded by singers, dancers and even a marching band on camels since arriving.
For a president who loves crowd sizes, Prime Minister Modi hopes to leave a lasting impression.
NARENDRA MODI, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER: Namaste Trump. Namaste Trump. Namaste Trump.
TRUMP: From this day on, India will always hold a very special place in our hearts.
COLLINS: As he rallied supporters and tour the Taj Mahal at sunset, Trump made no mention of the Indian prime minister's new religious test for migrants that's facing intense criticism, and he signaled a possible trade deal wasn't ready to be signed just yet.
TRUMP: Everybody loves him. But I will tell you this, he's very tough.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Now, Jake, the president has threatened in the past to get rid of staffers he believes are disloyal to him without taking any real mass action. But sources close to him say they feel like this time is different. And one thing they're putting to is the fact that he put a loyalist, who once was marched out of the White House in charge of the personnel office.
TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much.
Namaste Trump, everyone.
Give the translation again. What does it mean Namaste?
MOODIE-MILLS: The love and light in me bows to the love and light in you. And there's no love or light in that man. So, I don't know how they said that.
TAPPER: I just needed the translation, but I appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
MOODIE-MILLS: (INAUDIBLE) is biased.
TAPPER: John, take a listen to White House Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley asked about this potential purge that we're told is coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIDLEY: It's not a secret that we want people in positions that work this president not against him. And a lot of folks out there working against this president, if we find them, we'll take appropriate action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So I guess the question is what does it mean to be working against the president? Obviously, somebody who is spreading secrets or trying to get their --
AVLON: Sure.
TAPPER: -- Trump agenda not implemented. I understand that.
But is that what it means, you think?
AVLON: No, it's not. And that's why what we're hearing and seeing is different than what other presidents do. Look, most administrations are staffed by people who support the president. It almost goes without saying.
The standard here is different. You might ask what the statute of limitations of criticizing the president is. How rigorously will this be applied?
But this is a purge. This is something paranoid. U.S. presidents don't do purges. This one apparently does.
And there is a word for places that ask for unquestioning loyalty of the leader. They're called cults. But not called the Oval Office or the White House of the United States. So, this is a departure from our best traditions.
The fact that Jenny Thomas, Supreme Court justice's wife, apparently, is involved in this makes it all the more bizarre.
TAPPER: Melanie, take a listen to Senator Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland.
[16:30:00]
