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Stock Market Drops This Morning; Interview with Epidemiologist on Coronavirus; Interview with Governor of Maryland Larry Hogan. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired March 09, 2020 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:08]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We continue to watch the markets. They're still well down this morning. This is the Dow Jones Industrial average there, down 5.5, close to six percent this morning, although off, so far, its lowest levels.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. It's right off the lows of the morning. Let's get straight to Richard Quest. Richard, I just want to -- could use your help giving some perspective to people. Why is this so different from 2008?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Oh, one major, major reason. If you think of the economy as a house, in 2008 --
HARLOW: Burning.
QUEST: -- the -- well, it was burning, it was the rot that set in. But the rot had set in in the foundations of the house.
SCIUTTO: OK.
QUEST: The banking system. The banking system was rotten, and therefore the house was on shaky foundations and therefore it started to fall apart.
The house -- the foundations are strong, bank capitalizations at all- time high, the U.S. banks are amongst the best capitalized anywhere in the world. There was no issue, question or structure of a banking crisis, either in the U.S. or large parts of Europe except for Italy.
SCIUTTO: OK, so that's on the positive.
QUEST: Yes.
SCIUTTO: But the real economic effect here, that seems to be what's concerning the markets, right? Is that if planes are empty, airlines aren't making money. If ships are empty, shipping companies aren't making money. If people -- you know, if the supply chain in China is disrupted as it is, then companies can't produce and sell what they need to.
QUEST: The good side, it's not 2008. The bad side, this morning, we entered a new phase. The drop in the price of oil was the catalyst. And I'll tell you what, first glance, viewers quite rightly would say, hang on, dropping the price of oil, that's good. Heating oil's less, cost of fuel, manufacturing. That's true. But that drop in the price of oil is because it's predicated on chaos in the Middle East, and the oil markets and a dramatic loss of -- of demand. People don't want as much oil.
What worries me most now -- and several economists have been writing about this --
HARLOW: Yes.
QUEST: -- there comes a tipping point in any crisis, where the sheer amount of stuff -- economic dislocation is so great, that you can't avoid a recession or something like it. And we're very close to that point.
I don't -- I would say now, we are -- a recession in the United States is still not likely -- or it's still not probable, but it's becoming more likely.
HARLOW: OK. Let's talk about what the Fed can do right now in the United States. Rates are so low, there's not a lot more room to cut. And the White House, our John Harwood is just reporting a senior administration official says that they are considering stimulus, and Congress is coming up with a lot of ideas.
QUEST: Right. Let's go -- let's look at what the Fed can do.
HARLOW: Sure.
QUEST: The Fed has two roles here. The first of all is, lowering interest rates by maybe another 25 basis points or 50 basis points. I promise you now, that will do no good.
HARLOW: It's already baked in.
QUEST: Not only is it baked in, it doesn't have any -- who wants to go and buy anything or do anything -- the only thing that might help is for those of us who have got fixed-rate mortgages -- but many of us have got fixed-rate mortgage at low levels to start with. So let's put that to one -- because rates have been so low for so long.
But the second role of the Fed is within the financial plumbing. If markets seize up, if the money markets, if banks lose trust from each other -- which I don't think's going to happen -- then the Fed can flood the market with intermarket and intraday liquidity, that's a really important point.
In terms of what the government can do, well, you're looking at tax cuts to keep people spending, you're looking at relief for the airline industry on taxes, to help them through their woes. You're look at generally creating the pump-priming stimulus.
But also, the U.S. is running a trillion --
SCIUTTO: I was just going to say. Just as interest rates are already low --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- less room to cut, the U.S. is already in enormous debt situation because you've had tax cuts before --
QUEST: But that should not --
SCIUTTO: -- all this stuff costs money.
QUEST: But that should not worry you in a crisis. When the house is on fire, you don't worry about where the fire hose is coming from.
HARLOW: Fair enough --
SCIUTTO: Fair point.
HARLOW: -- but we shouldn't be in this position now, with debt and deficits where they are, when we come into a crisis.
SCIUTTO: That was the criticism then.
HARLOW: Thank you, Richard.
SCIUTTO: Richard Quest, always good to have you on. We know we're going to keep talking to you as we follow this.
[10:34:28]
Sixteen people linked to a nursing home in Washington State, they've now died from the coronavirus. Dozens more there have been hospitalized. We're going to have the latest. This is one of the early places that the virus went to.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: All right. CNN, starting this morning, is calling the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic. Overnight, the U.S. death toll climbed to 22, a vast majority of those linked back to the Life Care Center, which is a nursing home in Washington state.
SCIUTTO: Now, at least 70 employees who were working there, they're also sick, showing symptoms that resemble coronavirus. Dozens the nursing home's residents have already been hospitalized. Here's what one of them told CNN affiliate KIRO.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, LIFE CARE CENTER RESIDENT (via telephone): All these people, you just don't know who's going to die next. I want to go home, I want to go home.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Oh, goodness. You feel for those people there. We're going to continue to follow that part of the story. A spokesperson says the center has received enough testing kits to test the rest of the residents there, but no results have yet been received.
[10:40:06]
Joining us now, Dr. Celine Gounder, she's an epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist at NYU School of Medicine. So good to have you. Also, the host of two podcasts, "Epidemic" and "American Diagnosis." I mean, these are great resources for people out there.
Tell us what we learned in the last couple of days about the spread of the virus in this country, particularly as community spread -- as we call it -- has taken effect.
CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I think what's happening is as testing is starting to come online, we're actually uncovering transmission that's been happening all along. And I wouldn't be actually overly alarmed.
You're going to see numbers spike in the coming week as LabCorp and Quest, some of the big commercial labs, start to get online. University of Washington is starting up a big testing program, they're actually going to try to do home-based testing in the Seattle area --
HARLOW: That's right.
GOUNDER: So you're going to see numbers go up, and that is to be expected. It's that the transmission has been there all along.
SCIUTTO: OK.
HARLOW: How do you know as a nation when you're turning the corner? Because I was struck by South Korea's health minister, and they were very aggressive on testing a lot and fast, better arguably than the U.S. has been on that front.
But the health minister there said that, we are hoping that we have passed the peak. How do you know when you have passed the peak?
GOUNDER: Well, we don't even know what problem we have right now --
SCIUTTO: Right.
GOUNDER: -- because we haven't been testing. You know, I think that's one area Singapore and South Korea were way ahead of us, because they were testing extremely aggressively, they have much more complete data. They know what the problem is --
HARLOW: Yes.
GOUNDER: -- so they can address it.
When we don't even know what our problem is, how are we going to address it? So I don't think we can even start talking about a peak in this country at this moment.
SCIUTTO: I mean, South Korea is -- tested I think more than 100,000 people, it's got a population a sixth of the size of the U.S. and yet far behind.
We're trying as much as possible to spread news you can use to folks at home, watching. Simple steps that people can take to not eliminate the risk, but minimize the risk to themselves?
GOUNDER: Well, the hand-washing thing really does work. So they looked for example at a patient room in Singapore, somebody who had coronavirus, where did they find the contamination? It was on surfaces. Not in the air, on surfaces.
So if you clean surfaces, if you wash your hands, that's really the source of infection --
HARLOW: Yes.
GOUNDER: -- you know, and just to clarify, we have found coronavirus out to nine to 10 days on surface. Regular household disinfectants work to kill them. You don't need anything fancy.
HARLOW: But that's really important, it's not that the virus just stays on a surface for a matter of minutes, it is days. So cleaning, cleaning, cleaning with antibacterial supplies makes a huge difference.
GOUNDER: Absolutely, it makes a big difference.
HARLOW: OK.
GOUNDER: And you know, between people using something and kitchens, bathrooms, those are some of the key places to be cleaning frequently.
HARLOW: OK, got it.
SCIUTTO: just one final question (ph) before we let you go, just in terms of what -- what communities need most at this point.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: I mean, the thing about the testing is, it helps you identify who has it, therefore they can reduce contacts with other people, does it not? So getting a real handle -- which the U.S. has been late on -- is key to stemming the spread.
GOUNDER: Well, that and I think there's still a lot of confusion as to how to access a test. And then if somebody tests negative or positive, depending on, you know, if it's an elderly person --
HARLOW: Right.
GOUNDER: -- you probably want to hospitalize them.
HARLOW: And if they're self-quarantining, when do they know when it's OK to go back to regular life?
GOUNDER: Right, right. And, you know, and who can self-quarantine, who's safe to do that as opposed to being in the hospital. That I think there needs to be much better guidance on for communities (ph).
SCIUTTO: Yes, all right.
HARLOW: OK. We appreciate it, Doctor Gounder.
SCIUTTO: Thanks --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Thanks so, so much.
{10:43:23]
Nearly 16 million people in northern Italy are in cities that are essentially under lockdown as coronavirus cases there skyrocket. And we'll have an update from there, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Coronavirus deaths, skyrocketing now in Italy. Now millions of people in the northern part of the country are being told to stay indoors.
HARLOW: Let's go to our Ben Wedeman. He joins us in Bologna, that is in northern Italy. Good morning, Ben. What is happening there?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you had this decree that came out yesterday morning about essentially trying to impose travel restrictions on an area in northern Italy that has a population of about 16 million people.
We are outside of that area, and you see buses are running, people are out in the street as normal. Now, in theory, it means that people are not supposed to leave those areas. But in fact, the authorities simply haven't had the time and perhaps not even the resources to make this a reality. So as of yet, people are still moving in and out of this area of the Lombardy region and 14 other Italian provinces, so we have yet to see how effective these new measures will be.
But what we're hearing is, for instance, we've heard -- CNN has spoken to the coordinator for the intensive care units in the Lombardy region. He says they are getting a tsunami of patients. That's the phrase he's using. And he's saying that the health system is one step from collapse. Intensive care treatment is being given in the corridors of hospitals.
And what we saw yesterday was the greatest single-day increase in the number of new reported cases. It's gotten to the point where people are being told, even if you have a slight fever, perhaps you may have the symptoms of the coronavirus, unless you are in a critical condition, stay home and self-quarantine in the hopes that perhaps it's going to pass. [10:50:00]
And in addition to this crisis, you've had, in 27 prisons around Italy, riots because of new restrictions placed on family visits. You've had mass escapes from a prison in Rome as well as one in Puglia, in the southern part of the country. So the situation is critical from a security standpoint as well as, as I've said, from a health standpoint as well.
HARLOW: Ben Wedeman, thank you.
This is the president of the United States, landing in Florida just moments ago, shaking hands with supporters.
SCIUTTO: Interesting to note, keeping up the hand-shaking.
HARLOW: Yes, good point.
SCIUTTO: We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:55:30]
SCIUTTO: Of the 34 states now with confirmed cases of the coronavirus, eight of them have declared a state of emergency.
HARLOW: Maryland is one of those states. The governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, joins us now. Governor, thank you very much for being here. Obviously, declaring a national emergency gives you guys more flexibility when it comes to funds coming in and what you need, but talk to us about the state of your state right now in terms of testing and combating coronavirus.
GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): So our state was approved to do our own testing in the state of Maryland so we don't have to wait for the CDC. We've conducted about 62 tests so far. Unfortunately, we have five positive cases. We had two more that were added to the list last night.
And you know, I'm the chairman of the National Governors Association. I'll be joining -- right after I'm finished with you -- heading to the White House Situation Room, where we'll have most of America's governors on a call, a video conference call, to get the latest updates from all the federal partners and everybody's kind of in this together.
SCIUTTO: Governor, looking at the federal response so far, information of course, key. We keep getting told that by all the health experts we put on the air.
We have the president fighting sort of a messaging battle here. He's repeatedly blamed the news media for inflaming this. He just tweeted now, comparing the coronavirus to the common flu. and he said, "Last year, 37,000 Americans died" from it. "Nothing is shut down, life and the economy go on." And then he says that only 546 confirmed cases so far.
TEXT: Donald J. Trump: So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!
SCIUTTO: Based on your view, running a state that's been affected by this and one that's declared a state of emergency, is that accurate and helpful information?
HOGAN: Well, look, I think we're going to have all of the governors and the federal officials in the -- hopefully on the same page a little bit later today. I said yesterday that I think we ought to be speaking from one voice in the federal government. I'm not sure all of those comments are completely helpful or accurate.
We're dealing with a crisis on the ground in our states, and we're taking it a little more seriously than that. But you know, we'll get up-to-date information and we're going to make decisions on our own based on the facts on the ground in our own states.
HARLOW: What about any possibility of any quarantines in terms of parts of your state? I ask that because we're seeing it in Italy. And when Dr. Anthony Fauci was asked about it yesterday, could we see that in the United States? He said it's possible. Not probable, but it is a possibility. Are you considering that?
HOGAN: Well, and Dr. Fauci and I were together yesterday --
HARLOW: Yes.
HOGAN: -- and I heard the comments. At this point in time, it's not something but it's -- you know, look, we're trying to -- we're hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. And on the particular set of facts that we have today -- and just let me caution you by saying that the facts are changing, not only daily but almost hourly, up to the minute. And so as of right now, that's not an issue but, you know, I wouldn't rule it out as something that could potentially happen in the future.
SCIUTTO: So what resources do you need most from the federal government? I imagine testing kits among them, although you started to do them on your own. What help do you need and are you getting it?
HOGAN: Well, we're having really good cooperation and communication I think, from most of the federal agencies and directly with the White House, from the leadership of Vice President Pence.
What we're looking, the states are on the frontline. Through my state of emergency, I just unanimously passed through both houses of our legislature, an emergency piece of legislation to allow us to tap our rainy day fund to pay for things that we're going to need immediately.
But the federal government, actually both houses of Congress, passed the $8.3 billion package, which will mostly be in reimbursement mode and pay for a lot of things at the state level that we're going to be expending on the frontlines.
HARLOW: Very quickly before we end, where is your head in terms of schools and potential school closures? Because obviously, it has a dramatic impact and ripple effect, but also safety is a key concern.
HOGAN: Well, so far, our five cases are all people that traveled internationally and have not, to our knowledge, had direct impact with anybody that's in school. So --
HARLOW: OK.
HOGAN: -- it's not an immediate decision for us, but it's something we're obviously planning for and our State Department of Education has been working with all the local school systems to prepare for that eventuality in case it becomes necessary.
HARLOW: OK. Governor Larry Hogan, good luck. We know you have --
HOGAN: Thank you.
HARLOW: -- a lot on your plate. We really appreciate your time this morning.
And thanks to all of you. What a sort of remarkable morning of news --
SCIUTTO: It is.
HARLOW: -- for us.
SCIUTTO: We're going to focus on giving you the accurate information that comes in, and speak to the experts so we give you things you could use --
HARLOW: Yes. We will --
SCIUTTO: -- in (ph) response (ph).
HARLOW: -- we'll see you back here tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.
[11:00:00]
SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. "AT THIS HOUR" with Kate Bolduan starts right now.
