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CNN Projects Joe Biden Wins Idaho; 31 Deaths, 1,000 Confirmed Coronavirus Cases in U.S. Interview with Rep. John Garamendi (D) California. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired March 11, 2020 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[01:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the coronavirus in this country is a pandemic and we have to keep track of the cases. But remember, they're only going to go in one direction for a while and that's up. So right now, we have 1000 cases being reported in the United States. Within the last few hours, we've had two more governors declare states of emergency.

Massachusetts where cases more than doubled in one day, and Michigan which is now reporting its very first cases. Now, that's important. Hold on for a second. It's important because well, why is it an emergency if they're having their first cases. Emergency doesn't mean that it's out of control in that state. A state of emergency allows a governor to get additional funds released for preparedness, all right. Emergency sends a message that is not accurate here.

What is accurate is we have 31 people at least who died. The numbers are going to get bigger by the hour. I don't even think we should be counting them by the hour, frankly, because the numbers are only going to go one way, and you should mark them at significant intervals, as we've seen in China and other large scale populations who have to deal with this.

President Trump is going to meet with the top banking and Wall Street executives later today. He wants to discuss how the virus is hurting the economy, as the New York Times is reporting that his administration missed key chances to slow the spread of the virus months ago. Well, how so? Let's get some perspective. CNN, Nick watt takes a closer look at the scramble to contain the virus inside our country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A hotspot exploding in New York,

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): New Rochelle at this point is probably the largest cluster in the United States.

WATT: There's now a containment zone, schools, facilities, closed inside that ring. The National Guard deployed to help deliver food and clean.

A. CUOMO: This is literally a matter of life and death.

WATT: In New Jersey, four more presumptive positives and a death, a man whose only known travel was to New York. Coronavirus now in nearly 40 states with another hotspot up in Washington State. Now, 19 deaths connected to this nursing home. The elderly are most at risk, but younger people can still get sick and certainly carry and spread this virus.

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: As a nation, we can't be doing the kinds of things we were doing a few months ago, that it doesn't matter if you're in a state that has no cases or one case, you have to start taking seriously what you can do now that if and when the infections will come, and they will come.

WATT: More colleges across the country are canceling face to face classes. Harvard ordering students out of houses and first-year dorms by Sunday in an effort to de-densify our community. Testing, of course, also key at a meeting with major health insurers. The Vice President said they have --

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- agreed to waive all co-pays on coronavirus testing and extend coverage for coronavirus treatment in all their benefit plans.

WATT: But the CDC director says underfunding has slowed the testing process in public labs.

ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CDC: There's not enough equipment, there's not enough people, there's not enough internal capacity, there's no surge capacity.

WATT: Meanwhile, hundreds of passengers remain trapped on the Grand Princess here in Oakland waiting to be tested, then dispatched for treatment or quarantine. Frustration is building onboard.

JOHN HARRY SMITH, CAPTAIN, GRAND PRINCESS CRUISE SHIP: We have been unsuccessful in getting anyone with knowledge or authority to provide accurate information to share with you in a timely manner. And for that, I apologize.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right, our thanks to Nick Watt. Joining us now is Congresswoman Kim Schrier of Washington. Her district is at the center of the coronavirus outbreak in Washington State. She's also a doctor. Let's give the elbows. This is the message we're sending. Thank you very much. It's good to have you with us, Congresswoman, also a doctor. So obviously, you have two different lenses to look at this through. Now in your state, and how it's going, what are the lessons learned?

REP. KIM SCHRIER (D-WA): Well, first, I would say a huge thank you to our public health officials in Washington State. I mean, really, I am horrified and saddened that it's started in King County, essentially. But if there was ever a place to start, we have a great public health department that really got on top of this fast. Lessons learned, early testing, and protecting seniors. I think those are the biggest and first lessons learned.

CUOMO: So let's look at age. And I want to quickstep sideways. Is your information the same as what we've heard which is that this virus to this point does not seem to attack the infant population the way we've seen with other viruses? Is that what you --

SCHRIER: It's so interesting, because you're right. Mostly the people who are most susceptible are children who you know are constantly buggering all over everything. I'm a pediatrician. And this particular virus, it is impossible to imagine that it doesn't infect them, but it seems to not produce symptoms. And the thinking there is that the symptoms may come more from the immune response than from the virus itself.

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CUOMO: So you're hearing the same kind of thing at this point.

SCHRIER: I am. Yes.

CUOMO: And who knows where it goes? We're obviously waiting on seasonal sensitivity right now. Hopefully, you know, by the grace, we get a break and that the warmer climate changes help. We'll see. Now, testing. To me, it's been a central concern starting on the federal level, because it seemed like they knew and had time to get tests out but we're slow-walking it and it wreaked of politics to me, but what is your take?

SCHRIER: I don't want to get into a political realm about this. Certainly, there were stumbles along the way. I mean, it's interesting that it was our CDC that first sequence the virus --

CUOMO: Right.

SCHRIER: -- and help China with their response and with their development of a test. And so, I just would first say that our CDC researchers, our NIH is second to none. And there have been missteps alo1ng the way. We're catching up with testing. We're finally partnering with the private sector and with universities and really, you know, harnessing all of our potential in this country to get the testing done. So we really know what we're dealing with.

CUOMO: Now, you were listening closely to what I was saying before. What do you think of my suggestion that the numbers are only going to go up for a while, and the fact that we're playing catch up with the testing keeps producing a horror effect where the numbers keep jumping, but they're only jumping because we haven't been testing as regularly and as on the scale of a China or South Korea, and I think we kind of created our own problem there?

SCHRIER: Right. I think those are really important messages. First, we've known since the day we learned about this being in Wuhan, China that it would come to our shores. It is impossible for these things to be contained given our age of travel and whatnot. But when we are seeing these skyrocketing numbers recently that really more reflects the fact that we are testing symptomatic people and finding more of them rather than a huge explosion of numbers.

CUOMO: CDC, one of the officials there today made an interesting observation what your take on. Do they have tremendous human capabilities? Yes, we know it because they help China. The irony is, why weren't they helping us as much your home. But then there was a suggestion that the cutting of funding for specific preparation programs they had was important enough for him to mention even in this political climate. And you know, what happens when you say something that shows some kind of weakness on the federal level in this particular climate, so it must have mattered to him to say it. What is your take on that?

SCHRIER: It's a very, very important point. Look, viruses, bacteria, they're a whole lot smarter than we are. And we know that these worldwide epidemic, pandemics will come up every few years. And being able to have a public health system and global surveillance in place is one of the ways that we can combat these diseases before they come to our shores. And so yes, a steady regular every year investment in overseas health helps protect the United States.

CUOMO: The idea -- one of the arguments offered up, Biden and Sanders did not have rallies tonight.

SCHRIER: That's pretty smart.

CUOMO: The President says he's going to hold an event in eight days with a Catholic organization, which is ironic given that at mass on Sunday, they said to us, we're not going to be presenting the wine, you know, the blood of Christ because we don't want to be doing that. And if you don't feel well, don't come to mass, and yet he feels he has to meet with the Catholics, ironic.

But one of the rationales is well, it's eight days away, Doc. Who knows where we are by then? Look how different it was a days ago. Maybe we'll be better off in eight days. Is there any basis for that kind of statement?

SCHRIER: I think you and I and all of your viewers know where we're going to be in eight days. We're going to have far more cases. This will be far more widespread. And we're going to need to be closing events just like that. Who knows if there will even be Catholic services a week from now? This is -- this is expanding quickly, and job number one is to protect public health.

CUOMO: And why is it OK? So now, I am the freaked out parent living my life. You closing my school. I'm seeing a domino effect. And I'm going to wind up being locked in my house. What is the perspective for people to have? And here's the hard question. I know you can't answer it. But I want you to afford some perspective. This is what happens when you take public office. Duration, how long until I can get rid of my kid and get him back into school? How long until I can go to the places I want to go? SCHRIER: I think perspective is really important here. First, the perspective that for the vast majority of people, this will be a mild illness that they'll get over and afterwards we'll be immune at least for this season.

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CUOMO: Most percent that's right. Get over it or asymptomatic with it.

SCHRIER: And it may be even higher than that because we don't know how many people are out there and are asymptomatic.

CUOMO: We have a false denominator because most of the cases we're hearing about are the worst cases, because we haven't tested that much. Fair point.

SCHRIER: That's right. So that's the first thing I would say. The second is that, I think job number one is to protect the grandparents and people with underlying medical conditions out there. And so the reason for in some cases, closing schools, keeping kids home, keeping people away from work is just so that it doesn't spread like crazy.

We know that more fragile and elderly people are much more likely to end up in the hospital -- in the hospital on ventilators. And if we have a whole bunch of people going there all at once or this surge, we're going to have a huge public health problem on our hands. And that's why keep those kids home and it's our job in Congress to figure out how to get through the economics of this.

CUOMO: What is a ballpark on what we're talking about? Two weeks, month, two months?

SCHRIER: You know, I've been throwing them a month out there because I figure, if a parent gets it first, it may take up to two weeks for the first child to get it. It could take another week for the second child to get it. By December we're over this, it could be a month. And so I think that's probably a good figure to have in our minds. We still don't know if the schools will be open a month later.

CUOMO: The CDC hasn't said anything.

SCHRIER: That's right. And at this point, they're not closed all over Washington. But I think these are the kinds of things we need to be thinking about, social distancing, and not having big congregations of people. Even when kids don't get affected, they may be able to spread this disease. Again, a fact that we don't know quite yet.

CUOMO: People who want to play with maybes, what's it going to mean for your political convention? Maybe you won't have one. Is there going to be an election? What is the caution on how many dominoes ahead you go on the line?

SCHRIER: Oh, there's a gazillion dominoes. Look right now I'm focused on doing my job here. I am changing the way that I'm functioning. We canceled an in-person town hall, which I love to do, I've done 31 of them. And we switched over and did one on the telephone. And thousands of people dialed up and listen when we talked about coronavirus last night.

We're definitely not shaking hands. We're elbow bumping. When people come in my office in Washington D.C., we're keeping a little bit of a distance. And there's a general sense that, you know, you should not be shaking hands, you should definitely not be coughing into your hands or touching your face.

CUOMO: Doctor, thank you for the perspective. Congresswoman, thank you for the political perspective. I appreciate it. Though in D.C., be careful with the elbows, they're sharp, and they may be up around the nose with a lot of the people down there in the climate. But thank you, Doctor.

SCHRIER: Thank you.

CUOMO: I wish you well, I wish your staff well, and hopefully your state is doing the right things to get to a better place as soon as possible. We'll keep covering that.

SCHRIER: Thank you. And your state too. Thank you.

CUOMO: Thank you very much. All right, let's get over to Don Lemon right now. You heard. You know, interesting perspective, not just a member of Congress on a very heavily affected place in Washington, but a doctor as well.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Listen, the elbow bump, they say that's even too close because it puts you within three to six feet. So they said the best thing to do is just to say hello, and keep it pushing, keep moving on. Let's get some more of a medical perspective on this.

Joining me now is Dr. Seema Yasmin, a medical professor, professor at Stanford. She previously investigated disease outbreaks for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. we're so happy to have you on to get -- let's get some facts here, OK. Because people don't really know how to feel.

Some people are sort of saying, hey, it's not a big deal. Others are saying, hey, I'm really scared. I'm worried. I don't know what to do. We have 18 states have declared states of emergency. This virus is now in more than 35 states plus the District of Columbia. 31 people have died and there are 1000 cases. How worried should people out there be?

SEEMA YASMIN, DIRECTOR, STANDFORD HEALTH COMMUNICATION INITIATIVE: Don, I get asked this question all day long every day. And my response is really from a personal perspective. I worry at different levels for different people. Because yes, we keep banging around this 80 or 81 percent of people get mauled infections. But then I really worry about that 19 percent.

Of course, those older adults, but also people with underlying health conditions where you can't necessarily see from looking at somebody whether they are more susceptible to the infection, and just more likely to come down with a much more severe version of the disease.

I also worry about where people are located. Because we know right here in the Bay Area, we've had community spread going on for a few weeks, at least, maybe longer, but really hard to tell, because of all the delays and the issues we've had we've had with testing. So that really makes our job harder in terms of assessing just how widespread is this.

And of course, the numbers now we're increasing as we do more testing. And that gives us a bit more idea as to what public health measures we should be putting in place and what advice we should be giving to people.

LEMON: Listen, until the -- until the test kits get out and as many as possible, we really don't know and that puts us at a disadvantage because we don't know how many people would possibly have it, how many -- how much it is spreading, we don't know. And that is why it is so important that our government gives us the correct and accurate information right, doctor?

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YASMIN: Absolutely. Don, communication is such an integral part of the public health response. And in fact, information is so important that it's why I went from working at CDC to journalism, because journalism is a key component of the public health ecosystem. And what we've seen is a series of blunders with communication.

We've seen outright miscommunication, and then we've also seen well- meaning mixed messages. Some official say one thing, other officials say another thing, and it just makes the public more anxious and less prepared. And once people get anxious and scared, what we worry about then is humans aren't so great at making rational decisions when we're freaking out.

And we really need people to have composure, to be making sensible decisions about themselves, about their kids, and about their families. That's a really crucial part academic response. Tell people what they need to know. Don't make up numbers, don't be advice on hunches, and certainly, don't hinder the public health experts who know what they're talking about who were issuing guidelines.

And then we're hearing that White House officials are scratching through those recommendations because they don't want the public to have access to all that information.

LEMON: All right, let's dig in a little bit deeper and let's talk about some you mentioned that's why you became a reporter. Let's talk about some medical reporting. This is in the New York Times. This is the story out tonight detailing the failures the federal government had to repeatedly get ahead of the virus and ensure more widespread testing was available, including blocking Seattle flu lab from testing samples that later tested positive for the coronavirus. Give me your reaction to that doctor.

YASMIN: So I want to talk about the testing issue not just from a technical point, which is what we've heard a lot, that the test initially went out to state labs and there were mistakes made. OK, that happens, Don. The CDC was working in really in emergency response, developing this new test on the fly. That happens. The reagents were contaminated, the Primus had issues.

But I want to focus on what you're saying in terms of the bureaucratic issues. Because if we don't fix this now, seriously, we're just going to be back here again with the next epidemic, and there will be another epidemic. What happened is when the FDA said that the CDC could use its test, it effectively tied to the hands of scientists and physicians around the U.S. who were perfectly capable of developing their own test kit.

We need to change those regulations to make sure the next time this happens, other scientists do have the autonomy to develop those tests. What we're hearing now from Seattle is that those very astute physicians were saying, hey, we think something's going on in our area. Let's do retroactive testing. All those folks that were coming in with possible flu, we still have their samples in our freezer. Let's test them for this new coronavirus.

They asked for permission. The CDC said no, you can't do that. Asked FDA, the FDA said well, you can apply for approval, but you're going to have to e-mail us documents and mail us. Like, can we just not be mailing documents by the postal service during an emergency. There's just so many critical errors along the way that have delayed and really hindered the epidemic response.

LEMON: So then, what was the continued lack of testing mean for the spread of the disease then, Doctor?

YASMIN: It just means that we're not having this denominator of actually how many infections are there in the U.S., how widespread is community transmission, and how big is this problem. And we're comparing it to other countries that by now have done hundreds of thousands of tests and the U.S. is still in the low 5,000.

LEMON: OK, all right, let me ask you then. Why haven't we been using the same tests as countries like China and South Korea who were able to test many more people much more rapidly? Is that for the reasons that you just mentioned because of this convoluted system that we have with the CDC? Explain more.

YASMIN: Absolutely. And one of my frustrations is from February, I've been saying the WHO was sending out test kits to dozens of countries. If the U.S. was having issues with testing, fair enough. Put your hands up, get over your ego, say we need help. Ask the WHO to send over its test kids.

And what officials are saying is, well, the WHO is relied on by more developing countries. Well, OK. But in this instance, the U.S. needed help. And really a global health emergency demands collaboration, demands you getting over your ego and asking for assistance when you need it. We did not see that happen.

LEMON: Yes. So listen, you heard Chris speaking there. And he mentioned, you know, may not have an election. Well, I mean, I think that that is going to happen. I think the possibility that the Democrats and the Republicans may not have a convention, I think that's a real possibility, depending how bad this gets. Let's hope that that doesn't happen.

But we saw the two Democratic candidates cancel planned rallies in Ohio over virus concerns. But the Trump campaign is still planning on going ahead with a campaign event in Milwaukee. That is going to move forward. Should these political rallies be canceled or they should at least put a hold on them or monitor whether they're going to do them until further notice?

YASMIN: I mean, let's look to the U.K., my home country where our national health minister has fallen sick with the coronavirus. And we know how many hands politicians shake. We know how public-facing they are, how many events there are. It's totally prudent to think about limiting those kinds of things when we're seeing more signs and increasing numbers and evidence of community transmission.

Maybe it doesn't make sense to be shaking hundreds of hands a day. Maybe it doesn't make sense to have thousands of people confined in one stadium or one gathering place. And we have seen Sanders and Biden campaigns move away from some of those events. And it totally makes sense to me from a public health perspective.

And also keeping in mind the presidential candidates are in that older age group that the CDC is advising to stay at home and not travel as much.

[01:20:43]

LEMON: What a mess on the virus that we've known about since the winter of 2019. We could have been a much different place. Thank you, Doctor. Seema Yasmin, we appreciate you joining us. Thank you so much.

YASMIN: Thank you.

LEMON: Up next, we're getting more votes in after six states had their say. Will Joe Biden continue his winning streak? We'll talk about that next.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Rosemary Church. We will return to CNN special coverage of the Democratic presidential race in just a moment, but first an update on the coronavirus pandemic. Worldwide, more than 4,000 people have now died from the coronavirus out of more than 100,000 confirmed cases.

The first infection has now been reported in Turkey, a man in his 50s who is under observation along with his family. Italy has reported its biggest jump in coronavirus deaths since the outbreak began. Almost 170 in a single day. The entire country is on lockdown. The World Health Organization says the vast majority of cases can be found in just four countries, China, Italy, South Korea, and Iran. A count for 93 percent of all infections.

Well, the coronavirus is having an effect on My Freedom Day, but it's not stopping student activists. CNN partners with young people around the world to take action against modern-day slavery. Kristie Lu Stout spoke with some students in Hong Kong about what freedom means to them. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here in Hong Kong, My Freedom Day feels a little bit different this year. Instead of being out of school, I'm in the control room where I've been talking to students via video chat. Our schools here in Hong Kong because of the coronavirus outbreak are closed for at least two months. But that has not diminished the enthusiasm for activism for these students.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To me. I used to think that freedom was being able to express my thoughts. But being stuck at home, I feel like freedom means safety. And I feel safe when I'm at home, I feel safe when I'm not out, and I feel like that -- I'm really lucky and privileged to be in a safe place, and then also the privilege to be able to be learning.

STOUT: What have you learned about modern-day slavery?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like every country in some way or some form has modern-day slavery, and especially in Hong Kong where there'd be like the domestic worker culture here. There's all form of slavery, but it just didn't make sense for us to identify it and stop it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After doing research, I found out that, in fact, Hong Kong actually is doing one of the worst in terms of taking action against slavery, and has a very high population to slave ratio.

STOUT: What are you doing to fight modern-day slavery?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We actually somewhat indirectly support modern- day slavery because a lot of it is used really far down the supply chain by big corporations. So that's something that I'm trying to be more mindful of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my opinion, one of the biggest things that we're doing is actually releasing books about My Freedom Day into our library. Since school has been shut down, we are actually uploading the books onto a web page called (INAUDIBLE) where students can go into the web page, access the books, and read more about the issue that's going on.

STOUT: The problem of modern-day slavery is just so daunting. How optimistic are you that you can make a difference?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm quite optimistic about solving modern-day slavery. I think that our generation, we have the tools of social media that we can use to spread awareness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With awareness and contacting local NGOs, we can make a big difference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gives me hope that people like us, the younger generation, really have the ability and knowledge to express our thoughts and contribute into making a change.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CHURCH: We now go back to CNN's special coverage of the Democratic presidential race.

CUOMO: Idaho will go to Joe Biden, 20 delegates at stake. This is a continuation of a big night for Joe Biden. And really, it was even more important for Bernie Sanders. That's what needed to happen tonight. Bernie Sanders needed to make his case especially in Michigan, but it's as much of the board as he could and he did.

[01:25:00]

So let's talk about how. All right, we're showing you the states one tonight, Idaho, Michigan, Mississippi, and Missouri. There's still a few others that we are following but this is another one that you can put on the board. It's now done. Idaho goes to Joe Biden. You see the margin there, 5,000 votes, but by percentage, it was bigger because it was a, you know, low vote state.

So, let's go over to Phil Mattingly and talk about what this means in the state of play. Every bit counts because again, when you get -- when you proportion the delegates by percentage in the state, you got to win by big percentages in a lot of places to make up a deficit. Every time this happens, it makes it to be harder for Bernie Sanders. not just to explain the night, but to explain continuing the campaign.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. If you want to get to the 1991 delegates, you need to clinch the nomination. Every little bit matters. And when you talk to the Sanders campaign going into this night, look, they knew what was going on over here. You see all the dark blue over the course of the last 10 days and you recognize that Joe Biden's strength is on the east through the south and now moving up into the Midwest as well.

But the campaign said, wait, when it gets out west, it'll get a little bit better. Well, it started to get out west. Let's take a look at Idaho. You just call it. It was projected for Joe Biden. Joe Biden, you see a lot of dark blue here. Now there's not necessarily an apples to apples comparison to what happened in 2016. It is a functionally different night because 2016 were caucuses in Idaho. However, Bernie Sanders in 2016 swamped Hillary Clinton, just dominated turnout.

CUOMO: He was displayed to Bernie Sanders strength because of the (INAUDIBLE)

MATTINGLY: No question about that. They played to -- they played two insurgent candidates these every single day of the week. They did it in 2016. So the structure has changed, but so has -- so had the dynamics of the race. And you look at Idaho, you look at what Joe Biden did in Boise at college town, the largest county in the state, winning. Winning by three points. Winning kind of almost across the state for the most part with the exception of a couple of counties.

And I want to move over one other state as well to the state of Washington. The results here have slowed. We don't expect all the results tonight. It would mail in ballots. It's going to take some time. But the fact that Joe Biden is only losing by 2,000 votes in the state of Washington, there are question whether or not he would hit the 15 percent threshold and Washington. He is very much in play to potentially win Washington now.

Bernie Sanders held a 17,000 person rally in Tacoma just a couple of weeks ago. Joe Biden in the county where Tacoma sits, Pierce County, right now is winning that county. And I think the question going into this is, if you have the organization and you have the money, and you have the revolution as Bernie Sanders does, these are the states you should be able to do well in.

Joe Biden didn't have the money for a long period of time, didn't have the organization, and yet Joe Biden is coming into these states, and at least holding his own, potentially winning as well. And Chris, you made one other point that I want to get to, because I think these matters. Hitting the threshold. Every single delegate matters.

And if you look at the delegates right now, Joe Biden, 759 delegates. He's gone up about 120, roughly 122 delegates throughout the course of the night. Bernie Sanders sitting at 621. He's about 56, 57 delegates. Every single delegate matters and that includes down here in Mississippi. Talking about the 15 percent threshold. This is 36 delegates. It doesn't seem like a lot when you think about Michigan or California.

CUOMO: Explain why this is a problem.

MATTINGLY: When you fall under 15, and there's a possibility that Joe Biden is sweeping -- now congressional districts matter here as well, but if Joe Biden's sweeping 30, 35, all 36 delegates in the state, there's no comeback from that for Bernie Sanders when it comes to Mississippi. And so these are the issues that Bernie Sanders is dealing with.

It's starting to get to the point tonight of where does Bernie Sanders get delegates to try and cut into a margin that Joe Biden state by state by state and now even moving out west is starting to grow?

CUOMO: Two things. One, is their proof of increased turnout tonight or is it too early to know? From the exit polls, can we tell if more Democrats came out, or people who are eligible to vote in the different primaries?

MATTINGLY: So the answer is yes. We do believe there's increased turnout. We've seen vote totals going up almost across the board tonight. I think everybody thinks back to Iowa when everybody was thinking, oh, turnout is down. This is a major problem for Democrats. And yet primary, after primary, after primary since Iowa, it has largely been a different story.

There's two counties that I really want to focus on here, because we're talking about earlier in the night. What can you do to change what happened in the state of Michigan where Donald Trump won and shattering the blue wall and shocking everybody? Oakland County, second largest county in the state. This is the suburbs of Detroit. This is where Democrats need to win, want to win. This is suburban voters. This is where Democrats flip seats in 2018. These types of voters.

Take a look at the top line number 141,000 votes for Joe Biden winning with a major margin. Let's go back to 2016. Look at Oakland County and keep an eye on that 141,000. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won by five points, only 92,000 votes.

The turnout is up in the counties, the suburbs, the counties that turned Nancy Pelosi into the Speaker of the House again, move over into Macomb, one of those counties that flipped, sell Trump back in 2016, one of those major warning signs back in 2016 primary. Hillary Clinton had 47,599 votes. Let's take a look at 2020, Joe Biden 20,000 such votes more than that. That is a good sign because suburban voters are part of that coalition that Democrats think they need if they want to win in November.

CUOMO: Thank you very much. I appreciate the lens, Phil. All right, so, David Chalian, here we are.

[01:29:51]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's take a look at 2020. Joe Biden -- 20,000 such votes more than that. That is a good sign because suburban voters are part of that coalition and Democrats think they need if they want to win in November.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you very much. Appreciate the lens -- Phil.

All right. So David Chalian -- here we are.

Idaho we now can project is going to go to Biden. It's close -- the proportion is going to be close.

This is why you were teasing me last week when I said Michigan is the state to watch for us on Tuesday, right? You said close, it's a state with an M. But obviously, Mississippi --

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN PRODUCER: Yes.

CUOMO: -- you are more right than when you were even teasing. If Bernie doesn't get to 15 percent then the proportionality goes out, and Biden gets all the delegates. Now, you've got quite a cushion to overcome.

CHALIAN: Right. I mean he already came in to tonight with a cushion. And he's just adding to that cushion. He's just making it so much harder for Sanders to catch up here. Four states have been projected for Joe Biden. There are two out there -- North Dakota and Washington not yet projected.

But let's just take a look. So you projected Idaho. Let's look where those delegates stand right now, ok. Just the state of Idaho -- we're already able to allocate some of the delegates and see here you have Biden with 8, Sanders with 6 -- 20 delegates at stake in Idaho. We've already allocated 14 of them, that's a net gain of 2 for Biden -- not a huge delegate load, obviously. But look at where we are in the delegates to date.

A total contest -- you need 1,991 delegates to become the nominee. Joe Biden is at 759 and Bernie Sanders is now at 621. That is 138 delegate lead. That -- it is almost impossible with the rules as they are, due to proportional allocation for Bernie Sanders to over come that. He would need to just start winning everything and by big margins to make up that delegate deficit.

CUOMO: How many delegates -- I don't even know if this is a fair person -- how many delegates do the people who have dropped out have that now may also be in play for Biden when you get to the convention? How many are we looking at?

CHALIAN: Let me look. First of all -- nitty-gritty, we've been talking all along. There are delegates based on the statewide vote and delegates based on congressional districts, right.

CUOMO: Right.

CHALIAN: The delegates based on the statewide vote don't get to belong to those people anymore. They've dropped out, they will not get to have those delegates, ok.

So it's really just the delegates that they won at the district level. It's not that many -- a lot of them dropped out before they were able to accumulate delegates, but it's some.

And what is going to happen now is that the Biden campaign and the Sanders campaign, should Sanders stay in this and go through this, would start reaching out to the human beings that get attached to those delegate slots because they are kind of free agents. And see if they can woo them to their sides.

But Chris -- what I'm saying is where we are in this delegate fight right now -- we're not headed for some contested convention. We're not headed for a brawl on the floor in Milwaukee. That's not what we're headed for.

Joe Biden has amassed such a significant lead, this is -- the contours of this race are totally different than where we thought we may have been going into Super Tuesday.

CUOMO: Very, very interesting.

Appreciate the perspective --

CHALIAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Let's go over to Don -- you know, and what also has changed -- Don, is the context of what the election is about with coronavirus. There has been a whole change in an instant of what government means, what mixed messaging is about, where this could lead, you know. And it is a new context and there is a new light on leadership and the failures there of.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Civility, credibility -- people want to know that their leader can handle a crisis. And so, let's take it around the table here.

That is true what Chris said. But when you look at what is happening among -- that is a bigger picture when it comes to what's happening with the administration and tonight as well.

But when you look at what's happening just among the Democrats, and you look at the delegates here, I mean clearly Joe Biden obviously is in the lead here.

Mark says he does not see a path mathematically, right. You want really to say you don't want to count Bernie Sanders out but --

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, no. But I think it's important to note that when you look -- certainly in politics -- when you look at Bernie Sanders, he may not win the nomination but he can be very influential in how this campaign plays out for the next six, seven, eight months.

And if Joe Biden wins, assuming Joe Biden is the nominee, the influence he could have on the Joe Biden administration itself. Again, I think that as we talked about it earlier, I think that the next few days are really going to tell us what direction Bernie Sanders, you know, plans to take the campaign in the movement.

LEMON: Ok. So -- why is everybody so hesitant to talk about at this moment? Does Bernie Sanders drop out? Does he show up at the debate. Because every -- let me just say, because after every, you know, primary we have, everyone says was it time for such and such and drop out? Should this person get out.

But when it comes to Bernie Sanders, everyone has his kid gloves and they don't want to talk about it. Why is that?

[01:34:52]

JEN PSAKI, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I think because 2016 is very fresh in the minds of many Democrats who lived through that election, saw Bernie Sanders supporters, many of them, not all of them very dissatisfied with Hillary Clinton as a nominee. Booing a lot of the speakers at the Democratic Convention --

LEMON: I was there --

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: -- feeling like their voices weren't heard.

You know, there were mistakes, obviously that behavior was repulsive in many ways. But there are many mistakes made on the Clinton team side and the DNC side as well. That is fresh. And we don't need to push this in the next 48 hours.

Let Bernie Sanders get out on his own.

LEMON: I understand that but as a journalist, I have to ask the question because I sit here at every single primary, every time someone goes to the polls and vote or stay, people ask the same question, why is such and such in this race still. Why don't they drop out? They don't have a path.

But when it comes to Bernie Sanders, people are like -- I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But if you look at the math -- why -- what's going on?

ANDREW GILLUM, FORMER TALLAHASSEE MAYOR: Well, I have never said after one of our panels or any other shows that I have been on for CNN on this elections --

LEMON: You haven't heard other folks say --

GILLUM: -- should drop out.

First of all, I think it is wrong headed for people to tell -- it's a deeply personal decision. These folks have put a hell of lot into these races, and it's not just them now. It's also all the supporters that they have brought along with them.

If Joe Biden is on the path to get the nomination, what got him the nomination will not get him the presidency. And this is why you have to move people at a pace in which they can be open to receiving the message that he has to deliver to them.

And so rushing them out, it may satisfy or satiate this conversation, but it does absolutely nothing to put --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I'm not saying rush him out -- I'm just asking --

GILLUM: But it doesn't put us on a path to victory.

LEMON: -- I'm just asking considering how quickly everyone else -- all the other people who were in the race coalesced around Joe Biden, considering Democrats believe -- that's what they say -- that Donald Trump is an existential threat.

Very quickly they said Joe Biden is the guy. And so if he is indeed an existential threat, and you don't see, mathematically, because one plus one equals two. It's not like, my heart believes this and I think there is either clear path to the nomination or there isn't if you look at the map.

(CROSSTALK)

PSAKI: But if we were sitting here -- if Elizabeth Warren was still in the race, and she was the other person; if Pete Buttigieg was the other person, we wouldn't be having exactly the same conversation because frankly their supporters aren't as nasty.

But we will be having a conversation about how to bring them, hear them, and listen to them and make sure that their voices are being heard.

LEMON: I would be asking the same question. Is it time for them to --

(CROSSTALK)

PRESTON: But you know what -- 2016 the same thing happened. Excuse me 2008, same thing happened with Hillary Clinton. She stayed in the race against Barack Obama until June. It was a Saturday morning here in Washington D.C. It was about 100 degrees out when she finally got out of the race. But she decided to stay in the race for several more weeks, beyond perhaps what she should've done but the Obama campaign basically took a step back and said let her get out on her own.

LEMON: On her own.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: And those candidates that you talked about Don -- those were the moderates who wanted to coalesce around Biden who didn't have a pathway forward and matched with Biden more policy wise. Whereas Warren doesn't as much and she hasn't endorsed anyone.

Sanders doesn't matter.

LEMON: Yang was a moderate. I mean Yang was sort of --

LOPEZ: No. But he just announced tonight.

LEMON: He just did it, yes.

LOPEZ: He didn't coalesce in the show of force that we saw when Buttigieg and Klobuchar and Beto O'Rourke all joined that one night to endorse Biden. And it's interesting also the signals that are coming from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, which is that Sanders supporters are saying that they hope he stays in because they want, in the very least, for him to shape Biden policy-wise.

They're hoping that he pushes him on those areas. The progressive campaign committee that backed Warren originally, they're saying he shouldn't drop out right now.

So this is clearly what Sanders is weighing about what influences Mark has mentioned can have in the --

LEMON: Let me ask you both -- what is the -- for what reason is there not to drop out?

SCOTT JENNINGS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I think --

PSAKI: He thinks he'll have more influence --

JENNINGS: Yes. And I think --

LEMON: Does he show up at the debate?

JENNINGS: I don't know. If I were Biden I wouldn't want this debate to happen. And if I were the DNC, I might be trying to talk to Bernie about saying well, we need to have this debate or not, because having Joe Biden have to stand up there and face certain attacks -- but it's tricky because you don't want it to look like the establishment is forcing Bernie out --

LEMON: But you can't say the establishment forced Bernie out.

JENNINGS: If they cancel the debate --

LEMON: But if you look -- you look at the delegates -- I shouldn't say Bernie because that's too casual. I'm sorry.

You can't say that the establishment forced Senator Sanders out. Look at the delegates. The people --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But the people spoke. The establishment did not speak.

GILLUM: But Don -- we are, Florida hasn't voted. Ohio -- I mean we're not even halfway.

LEMON: I agree with you.

GILLUM: We're not halfway --

LEMON: I agree with you.

(CROSSTALK)

GILLUM: -- got to be for the delegate count. And there is a process in place --

LEMON: Ok.

GILLUM: -- that process should play itself until the Senator comes to, should he reach a conclusion that this is not a winnable race.

[01:39:56]

GILLUM: And again, my only stake in this is winning in November, and by the way, according to these exit polls, that's what every Democrat is out there trying to champion for, which is a candidate who can win.

And in order to win, we have got to bring along these voters, largely younger voters, who right now are seating themselves with the Bernie Sanders campaign. And if we move this too quickly, they will still --

LEMON: No. I think that you're absolutely right. But I'm just talking about the people who count the votes. The people who are counting the delegates. And what are they saying? There isn't a mathematical path. Am I wrong?

PRESTON: Yes. But let's talk for a second. And I'll be negative -- shocker, right, as I play out a scenario here. What if something were to happen to Vice President Biden in the next

couple of weeks, ok? I mean God forbid. What if something, whether health wise or something came out or, you know, that was damaging where he had to leave the race. There's a lot of scenarios why Bernie --

LEMON: That's the reason for this word called "suspend". That's doesn't mean because people don't say --

PRESTON: Well, they also --

LEMON: -- and they all suspend, that means that you can get back in. That doesn't mean -- this doesn't say that I'm ending, I'm dropping my campaign. It is suspend, so that if something like that happens they can get back in the race.

PRESTON: Right. But you also -- I mean by suspending your campaign, too it also allows you to --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But then Bernie Sanders -- if something happens to the vice president then Bernie Sanders would be the guy because he has the most delegates.

PRESTON: I don't think so.

GILLUM: We've got two very important contests coming up. We have this -- on the 17th, we've got Georgia after that. You will see whether or not -- if Democrats want to bring this thing to a halt, we will see in these upcoming races whether or not there is overwhelming will to move the Biden candidacy forward toward the nomination to become the nominee.

The one thing I would reject though, and I think we have been a little bit flagrant -- not us -- but I've listened to some of the panelists and sort of declaring this a victory for the moderate wing of the party over the liberal wing.

Well, according to these exit polls --

LEMON: Yes. Not in any way.

GILLUM: -- 57 percent of people want, you know, universal health care. Another 49 percent say that they want a complete overhaul of the economic system.

So these are people who philosophically, frankly, are aligning with Bernie Sanders, yet they are choosing the candidate who they believe can beat Donald Trump.

LEMON: Yes.

GILLUM: So, there isn't an ideological win or loss here --

LEMON: But that's -- GILLUM: -- this is about --

LEMON: -- but that's from the same people who believe that the Democratic Party are complete far left, and that is not true. That's showing up in the polling.

I've got to run. We'll talk more when we're back on.

There are now at least a thousand confirmed cases of coronavirus in the United States. How will the Trump administration respond to the ever-changing challenge of containing it?

[01:42:33]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. I know the President told you that there'd only be a handful of cases, they'd be gone soon. I know the President is saying he wants to throw a rally in eight days because he's confident about the situation.

Look, here's the fact. The number of cases between now and in eight days is going to go in only one direction -- up. Ok. That's the way it is.

There have been now a thousand confirmed cases. The number has to rise because people haven't been tested. We're playing catch up. The more we test, the more cases we will find.

But here's the good news. The more reality you'll see that over 80 percent of people get through this with sometimes no symptoms and that almost everybody is going to be ok. But that doesn't mean you have to be on watch.

That's why we bring in Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California -- always a pleasure, sir.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Good to be with you -- Chris.

CUOMO: Let me talk a little politics, and then we'll go to the context of what this election is about --

GARAMENDI: Sure.

CUOMO: -- which is the leadership on something like this.

Your party does not stand a good chance if it is not completely united in the fall.

GARAMENDI: Right. That's exactly right.

CUOMO: Now you are at a point where it seems Joe Biden likely will not be caught by Bernie Sanders.

GARAMENDI: That's correct. CUOMO: He did not speak tonight -- Bernie Sanders, highly atypical. What do you think the analysis is for whether the senator stays in the race?

GARAMENDI: I suspect he will stay in. But I would hope that he would reduce the vitriol. He's come out very, very sharply against my candidate, against Biden. And I think that is very harmful. So my hope is that he reduced it, stick with his issues which are important issues and which he presents very well and has for six years now -- same message.

But don't attack. There's no need to attack at this point. I think the public has basically made up their mind here.

Bernie has his core supporters. He's had them all along. But what the Democrats wanted most of all was a candidate that could beat Trump and Trump knew who that candidate was. That's what the impeachment was all about.

Trump knew that Biden was his principal opponent. He went after him a year ago. And here we are.

CUOMO: And he keeps on saying that Bernie is getting framed.

GARAMENDI: Oh, yes.

CUOMO: That the Democrats are doing him dirty.

One more political question. Couldn't you make the argument that Senator Sanders has the most leverage he's going to have right now, before the debate? Before he sours anybody on how he handles the debate before the next Tuesday. Isn't he had maximal strength right now?

GARAMENDI: Probably so, but to what effect? To what purpose would he do that? Is he going to get Biden to suddenly come out for Medicare for all? No, he's not.

Biden has a very solid health care plan that will move this forward and deal with the problems and move forward with more and more people getting insurance.

I'm not sure what he would use that leverage for. But what my fear is, that he will attack, attack, attack as he did with Hillary and as he has done in the last -- since South Carolina.

He needs to back off on that. It's not going to be a winning strategy. It's not going to propel him ahead, but what it will do is to fracture the Democrats even more than they are now.

CUOMO: All right. So politics is often surreality (ph).

Now to hard reality with coronavirus.

GARAMENDI: Right.

CUOMO: We're still behind with testing.

GARAMENDI: Exactly.

CUOMO: Where is your level of confidence in the preparedness of the agencies and coordination with the White House to have us where we need to be for the fight forward?

[01:49:54]

GARAMENDI: I'm very, very concerned. I was concerned three weeks ago when the first evacuees from Wuhan arrived in California. There was no testing. Those tests could have come in from Korea. Korea had the tests, they were available, they could've been here in 12 hours.

America has been slow to the fight. We are way, way behind and we have a very serious political problem and functional problem created the President who has spent three years attacking government and really ripping the heart out of the governmental systems.

All the way through from the Defense Department to CDC and beyond, reducing the budgets, not putting key people in, and leaving these organizations hollow.

So now how do we catch up? We have to do that. We have to do the very best we can to put the government back together again. And frankly, that is Biden's strength. He comes off eight years in the center of government building the systems, putting the systems in place to protect America, to build a democracy and to build the economy.

That is Biden's strength. Unfortunately, the President has gone exactly the opposite direction for three years.

CUOMO: Well, it's here's the good news. It is easy to be down on the government and that see it is underperforming and institutions not living up to the constitutional mandate. But in a moment like this unfortunately it has to be a, God forbid, government matters again, and people will be measuring its response.

GARAMENDI: Yes.

CUOMO: Congressman -- as always, it's a pleasure. Thank you for joining us, especially at the hour. Good to be with you.

All right. Let me take a quick break. We're going to have more of CNN's special election night coverage right after this.

[01:51:26]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. Welcome to our special coverage on CNN.

There are now at least a thousand confirmed cases of coronavirus in the United States. The number has been rising throughout the night, it is going to continue. Ok? That is the reality. In fact, I don't even know that we should even count it that incrementally. We're going to be at this for a while. We're playing catch up, but we're going to be ok.

Now, our election is happening in this context. Here is the latest.

Washington state -- 2,000 votes between Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. Interesting thing about Washington -- nobody went to vote today. Every vote is mail-in. Did you know that? I didn't either.

All right. North Dakota -- this is a caucus state. 515 votes separate the two individuals. We're going to be following it throughout the night. A lot more of our coverage right after this.

[01:56:13]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)