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Cuomo Prime Time
Fauci On Coronavirus Testing: "It Is A Failing... Let's Admit It"; Coronavirus Spares Most Kids And Targets Older People; Justin Trudeau's Wife Tests Positive For Coronavirus. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 12, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: In so many tangible ways, to so many people, life moved even further from normal, and no one pretends it won't change more.
Join us at 10 P.M. Eastern tonight for a CNN Facebook Global Town Hall "Coronavirus: Facts and Fears." It's a two-hour special. Try to get you as much, facts and information, the truth, as possible.
The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: More facts, less panic, Anderson, thank you. And thank you so much for being a part of the Town Hall in the next hour. It is so helpful to so many.
All right, I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
America is closed, and closed in a way we have rarely, if ever, seen. That's true. A shaky President told you last night that all is well. We know the truth is very different.
Tonight, the realities. Testing is not going smoothly. We have to expose the needs, and we need to see the real challenge. The precautions that were taken, OK, they're going to help reduce cases, but more cases are coming than we can imagine right now.
And our real question, our real challenge is going to be capacity. That is the crisis that is going on in Italy. Where are we on capacity? What is being done to prepare for the cases we're definitely going to have?
We're all being tested right now. I'm not talking about Coronavirus. I'm talking about our personal mettle in a way that we've never been before.
So, let's get the truth, let's get the government to do its job, and together, let's get after it.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: You don't need me to tell you what you're seeing in your own lives, this growing sense of "What if," the tightfisted fears, the sense of dread, fueled by an ever-increasing unknown. You know, it does remind me a little of how it felt here after 9/11.
Of course, this is very different. Why? Well, this time we can prepare. We can do something to reduce the scope. But, just as then, we will find the strongest defense in what? Our collective will to fight back. That's why you see America shutting down at a head- spinning rate.
Just the last 24 hours, Ohio, Maryland, Kentucky, New Mexico shutting schools. Why? Slow the rate of infections. "But I thought it couldn't infect kids." Yes, but they can infect others, and there are adults there.
Broadway going dark, Disneyland, Disney World too, no-brainer, in the short-term, the bigger the group, the bigger the risk, the NCAA canceling March Madness, the NBA and NHL suspending their seasons, along with Major League Soccer, the MLB delaying opening day. Museums, parades, marathons, you're seeing it, more and more canceled.
Of course, tomorrow at midnight, the Trump ban on travel of foreign nationals from much of Europe will go into effect. It's a startling headline. But the reason why it's happening must get attention and perspective.
Tonight, we're going to focus on that and what the real challenge is that's coming that we are not hearing enough about. Let me explain it to you this way.
Here's the state of play, more than 1,600 Coronavirus cases right now. That number has to be dramatically underreported for good and bad reason.
The bad reason, testing is woeful. It continues to be, despite blatant lies by the President of the United States.
The good reason, a lot of people have had Coronavirus, and recovered without realizing it. The number of cases that we hear about, where that will happen, where you'll get over it, or you'll be asymptomatic, meaning you never really know you have it, 80 percent.
Now, think about that in the context of the 41 deaths so far. Today, you saw the number jump from 30 to 41. But 24 of those 41 were in one nursing home. And that number, 41, look, one is always too many, but it's so low compared to other places, so why the drama? Why all the closing?
I'll show you why. Data shows that this virus is spreading faster in the United States than in almost all European countries, except Italy. Why? Take a look at the trajectories. You see in here?
Now, I won't mess it up with my big hand, but look at Hong Kong, Singapore. Well why, why is it spreading slower there? More aggressive action to cut down the spread.
In China, it's even more dramatic, why? Because they can do things there that people listen to like that. They don't have to sell it.
South Korea, the response hasn't been perfect. But with its testing of thousands people a day, we've barely done a thousand tests, it managed to greatly contain the contagion.
Now, what do we see here at home? Testing is slow. In fact, it's so slow, forget about contact tracing, which is where I have it. You figured out that I was with this one, and now we find her, and then that guy, and now it's, it's not going to happen.
We still need the data for resources, how you apportion resources. But be honest, the horse has left the barn, OK? We're going to see community spread. And let me point out why we need to be tough on the truth, OK?
Look at what happened just today.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Frankly, the testing has been going very smooth.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The system does not - is not really geared to what we need right now.
It is a failing. I mean, let's admit it.
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CUOMO: Fauci is about the "We" and you having reasonable expectations. Trump is about the "Me," and he is lying to you. And the reason that it matters is that his resistance to reality is keeping us behind on the most major challenge.
You're going to hear the term "Prevention will flatten the curve." What does that mean? There are two different curves, which are basically scenarios of what could happen in America, depending on what the next steps are.
So Fauci, Dr. Fauci, told us that if you look at the curves of outbreaks, they have big peaks then they come down. What we need to do is flatten that peak, right, because that means less cases, less density, less trouble.
Now, if you don't take the measures, that we're all freaked out by right now, you become Italy, overwhelmed, you cannot handle the need.
But if you live with these measures, and I know they suck, but you to take them, in relationship to the alternative, if you go with it right now, you will see a flatter line. Experts say we can treat more patients and limit the overwhelming of hospitals nationwide.
Why did I slow down? According to the reporting, our country has 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people, 2.8 per 1,000. It's actually fewer than in Italy, China, and South Korea. Why? It's a long discussion. Forget it for now.
It's estimated that we only have about 45,000 intensive care unit beds in the United States. So, if you take a moderate outbreak, you have about 200,000 of us that would need one of those beds.
So, that is a moderate reality. In that context, again, truth matters now. I don't want you surprised by what you should know. Why did the President say this?
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TRUMP: Look, we're - we're in great shape. Compared to other places, we are in really good shape.
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CUOMO: What other place? La La Land? We're not in great shape.
More walk, less talk, find capacity. The truth is a must. We cannot have excuses. You cannot be put into a state of panic because the truth was hidden from you, not when time is precious.
We know that cases are going to come at much greater scale than we're seeing now, OK? Are we ready for that scale? The answer is no. How do you get ready for that scale? Now, that's a good question.
And joining us now is someone, who knows a lot about how you protect the country from these kinds of dangers, Lisa Monaco, former Homeland Security Advisor to President Obama, now, National Security Analyst for us.
Let's give it up, little bit of that.
All right, now, this is easy for you to follow around. But for so many people, everything shutting down means everything's going to hell in a hand basket, when actually it's a sign of the opposite that we're starting to get it where we need.
Why would Fauci say everything, you know, it's not working, the testing, and the President say "Going smoothly." Who does that help?
LISA MONACO, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT FOR PRESIDENT FOR HOMELAND SECURITY & COUNTERTERRORISM UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: It doesn't help anyone, Chris.
And I think you just performed a tremendous service, particularly by putting up that curve graph, because people do need to understand that our mission has got to be to flatten that curve.
And I think what you saw with Fauci, yesterday, testifying on Capitol Hill, he was asked, "Is this going to get worse?" And he was clear as he could be. "Yes, it is absolutely going to get worse. But how much worse is going to depend on how aggressive we are right now."
Why did he say that? Because he's trying to set the conditions to flatten that curve, and he's trying to prepare us to take all the steps that you just described.
CUOMO: So, again, and just in terms of making sure people understand why we are where we are--
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: --the President says it's a foreign virus, as if this was launched on us like an attack. We know what that's about.
MONACO: Right.
CUOMO: That's about him playing xenophobia, works with his base.
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: Forget it.
MONACO: Right.
CUOMO: And "We never saw it coming." Is that true?
MONACO: No, it's not true.
CUOMO: Why?
MONACO: He - he talked about this being an unforeseen challenge.
CUOMO: Yes.
MONACO: It's not true. It absolutely was foreseen. This is not a Black Swan event. Black Swan scene - says "OK, we were surprised." Absolutely, we weren't surprised. Why do I say that?
Because the Intelligence Community, our Intelligence Community, career experts across many administrations have said for the last several years, pandemic disease, emerging infectious disease, is one of the top threats we face, as a nation.
And they said it in unclassified form in their Worldwide Threat Assessment for the last several years running. That--
CUOMO: So, let me ask you something.
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: Because this is going to be compelling to people. And I want to make sure you get the best defense.
"Monaco, she's with Biden. She's going to try and trash Trump, and say this was here. No - nobody knew. And she's painting it like something that was about them preparing here."
Defend your position. As a Biden supporter, forget about Biden, but--
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: --why is this true? How can you show it's true that they had reason to know but still made certain cuts, and still didn't prepare?
MONACO: So, it's in black and white.
[21:10:00]
So, go back to the Worldwide Threat Assessment, for the last several years, submitted to Congress as a public document. It literally ranks the top threats we face. And listed in that document is emerging infectious disease, pandemic disease, something we got to be focused on.
The second point is we talked about it. We talked about it in the transition. So, one of my jobs as Homeland Security Advisor was to help prepare the new team to take on a set of risks that they were assuming.
CUOMO: And where was this?
MONACO: So, during the transition, on the last week of the Administration, we sat down, side by side. And look, I can't claim credit for this. We were taking a page out of the Bush Administration's book. They--
CUOMO: They did the same thing.
MONACO: --they did a tremendous service.
CUOMO: Was Coronavirus like right next to Martians invading, in terms of things like that might possibly happen, but it's not something that's real?
MONACO: Hardly!
Look, we'd been through Ebola. We'd been through Zika. We'd been through H1N1, MERS, SARS, so we know this is an issue.
So, we sat down, and we said, "What lessons learned do we want to try and impart?" Sure, we're going to talk about terrorist attacks and what you should do. We're going to talk about cyber-attacks. We're going to talk about hurricanes.
And what I decided we needed to add to that scenario, and we sat down in a room, big room, sat side by side, outgoing team, incoming team, to work through these issues. I said we got to include a pandemic scenario.
And my team, career experts, who sat in a unit that was dedicated to preparing for these things, we said we've got to include a pandemic scenario, a new strain of flu, that's what we're most worried about.
Ebola was a tough challenge. It sure was. But very, very different from what we're facing now.
CUOMO: Right.
MONACO: A respiratory disease, a new strain of flu, a novel virus, like SARS or MERS, that's what we were worried about.
CUOMO: So, they had forewarning. They could have planned on it. They didn't. Fine! That's the past.
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: I have a couple questions about the present.
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: Well one about the present and then one about the future.
The Utah Jazz, they get - one of their guys, Rudy Gobert - and look, like Matt Gaetz, the Congressman, you know, you're playing the fool. He's wearing the mask. Now, he's quarantined. Rudy Gobert is touching everything on the table, like this doesn't mean anything, now he's got Coronavirus.
How do they get those tests so fast? You know, if people are desperate all over this country--
MONACO: Yes.
CUOMO: --and they just can't get tests, how did the Utah Jazz get all those tests, so fast?
MONACO: I don't know the answer to that, Chris.
But what I do know is we've got to be figuring out a way, and we should be hearing from our leaders, how are we going to get testing done on a widespread free basis, because we can't attack what we can't see. And we can't see what we don't test, right? We got to see what is out there.
CUOMO: They play favorites with the testing? Did you guys do that? You know, when you have like the resources--
MONACO: No.
CUOMO: --did they go to your buddies first, like did somebody make a phone call?
MONACO: No.
CUOMO: And there are tests if you know the right people?
MONACO: No.
CUOMO: So like if he doesn't like your state, you're not going to get them. And if he does like your state, you do get them. Is that why the politicians are going so out of their way to not be critical of the President?
MONACO: Of course, not. That's not the way it should work. I have no information that that's how it's working now.
But the point is we've got to get the test, and we're woefully behind the testing that we need to do. And that's the - that's the crisis we're focusing on now. And we should be and we've got to do a hell of a lot better.
But Chris, I'm worried about the next wave--
CUOMO: Which is?
MONACO: --that's coming at us. The absolute overwhelming of our healthcare capacity.
CUOMO: Capacity.
MONACO: You laid out the numbers, and they're stunning, right?
CUOMO: Why do our numbers stink? Why do we have less capacity than these like other countries that we think we're better than?
MONACO: Look, you - you just had or rather Anderson just had on his show, Congresswoman Donna Shalala--
CUOMO: Yes.
MONACO: --who knows a little something about our healthcare system. And I think it's fair to say that over several administrations, Democrat and Republican, we have--
CUOMO: Scaled down.
MONACO: --underfunded our public healthcare system.
CUOMO: So--
MONACO: So, that's - that's fair. And we've got to spread that around.
CUOMO: Do you know what is going on right now in trying to - because it seems to me that yes, testing, but you're almost, so yes testing, full stop, then new sentence, but, comma, you kind of passed it anyway.
The cases are going to come and the next signal of the need will be at the hospitals. Is the federal government in some kind of huge like military exercise, building capacity right now, that we don't know about?
MONACO: I don't know the answer to that. I'd like to hear.
One of the things I wanted to hear from the President's speech last night, and I should say, look, somber tone, very important to do. I've been inside the White House. Understand what goes into an Oval Office speech. You only use the Resolute desk in very rare circumstances. But what we didn't hear is what is--
CUOMO: Anything about capacity.
MONACO: --what is the plan.
CUOMO: No idea of a plan.
MONACO: What is the plan to do more widespread testing, and to give our healthcare workers, who are on the front lines, Chris, they're the ones who're going to protect us, to make sure that they have the capacity, the equipment that they need.
CUOMO: We see it's coming. It can't be that you were surprised again. You know now capacity is going to be an issue, what do you do now?
Give me a yes/no. The 30-day ban on Europe, right move?
MONACO: No.
CUOMO: Why?
MONACO: Look, it may slow the spread or the pace of the spread. But it is not a panacea, right? We've got to be focusing on what we're doing right now, here in this country, to protect Americans.
CUOMO: Lisa Monaco, thank you very much. As one of the things we do, it's tough for us, ethnics, not to hug. But I appreciate the perspective. Thank you very much.
MONACO: Thanks so much.
[21:15:00]
CUOMO: All right, look, what do we know about the virus? Not so much in some areas, a lot in others. One thing we all know right now is that it's the elderly, right? They are most at risk.
Here's part of the mystery. Why are children being spared? Of course, that's not a case that they should get it more. But is there something in it that in that understanding, that disconnect, that could be a clue in figuring out how to fight this?
That's what one of the nation's top Infectious Disease Specialists is working on. Is there a hope there? Next.
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CUOMO: All right, one of the big parts that we're going to have to deal here with the Coronavirus is that we're going to hear things, and they'll become known, but then you have to start asking questions off of what you know, to get to where you need to be.
For example, kids have proven remarkably resistant to this particular virus. For example, in China, out of more than 80,000 confirmed cases, only 2 percent kids, or teens. Cases, not even deaths. That number, obviously, much, much lower.
"Thank God," we say. But too many stop there. Go another step, why not kids? Is there a clue in that?
We found a doctor named Frank Esper, OK, Pediatric Infectious Diseases Specialist, with the Cleveland Clinic Children's Hospital, and he's looking at it from the perspective of what it could mean for the rest of us.
[21:20:00]
Doctor, thank you so much, for taking time out of the work, to explain the work, and why you're optimistic about it. So, it's not affecting kids the way we would have expected. What does that mean to you?
DR. FRANK ESPER, PEDIATRIC INFECTIOUS DISEASES SPECIALIST, CLEVELAND CLINIC CHILDREN'S: You know, it's very interesting. And it's not just this particular Coronavirus. It's actually its sister Coronavirus, the original SARS, also did not attack kids, nearly as much as it attacked adults, the same with MERS.
Something about these new Coronaviruses are staying away from children, and are attacking much more the adult population, and the older adult population. Why that is, is still not clear.
But it is something that - hey, and we're very, very happy. But it doesn't mean that the kids are off the hook. They can still get infected, and we don't want to roll the dice to find out that they can get sick, so we need to protect them just as much as we protect adults.
But what is it about the kids is something that's going to be one of the biggest clues about this virus that can help us with this outbreak as well as any future outbreaks for some of the Coronaviruses?
CUOMO: So, how do you figure it out?
ESPER: One of the things - we have several theories as to what's going on.
First is, is there something about the virus? Is there something about this virus that - that the children are more immune to this virus than the adults? Could it be because they had previous exposure to other Coronaviruses?
That doesn't seem to be the case because both kids and adults see a lot of regular Coronaviruses every year, so that doesn't seem to be the case.
But it may be that their immune response in children is so much more vigorous, better than some of the older adults, because older adults, they don't make as much of antibody response.
Or is that something that has - has nothing to do with the virus, but it has to do with the adults, and specifically with their lungs? Is there something about their lungs that makes it a better landing zone for this virus?
Is it something about the fact maybe that they're more likely to be smokers or maybe the fact is that they've been inhaling pollution for decades that children have not been inhaling, and that leads it to the virus being able to attach better?
Is there something about the receptors, this Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 receptor? Is it different? Is it changed? Is this expression different? These are all the major clues that are going to help us figure this out.
CUOMO: Figure it out how, like why isn't the end-of-the-road conclusion is "Well here's why people like me are more susceptible than someone like my kid?" How does that help you help me from getting it?
ESPER: Well let's just say it has something to do with the receptor. Let's say it's the Angiotensin-converting enzyme receptor.
If there's a way that we can then focus some therapies against to block this receptor, or block the virus' ability to attach to the receptor, or maybe when we're figuring out all these vaccines, we figure out the binding site of where this virus likes to attack, because it's attacking this particular part in adults, then we can focus this vaccine effort, against those specific protein sequences, so that we can make a better vaccine.
CUOMO: So, last question for you. People are hearing that we're closing the schools, and they're hearing that kids aren't as susceptible to the virus, and they're saying--
ESPER: Yes.
CUOMO: --then "Why close the schools?"
ESPER: You know, it--
CUOMO: Why does it make sense?
ESPER: Well, you know, it's not just the schools. The schools certainly we - we are closing the schools because everything is on the table. We need to stop the spread. And Ohio has been at the forefront, and been very aggressive in trying
to minimize the spread within this state. We only have five cases, but that's five too many, and we have already decided to go ahead, and close our schools today.
One of the reasons is that not only are we protecting the kids, but also we are protecting their - their teachers. We are protecting the administrative staff.
In addition to that, it may be the kids aren't getting sick. But if the parents, the adults, the administrative staff and the teachers are getting sick, there's not enough people in the school to make sure that those students are safe.
So, we definitely have to use school closures as one of many different ways to help prevent the spread of this virus.
CUOMO: Can a kid be a carrier, but not get sick, and give it to some adult and they get sick?
ESPER: You know, one of the reasons why we think we haven't recognized as many kids being - to be infected is because they have been so mild, they've never shown up to a doctor to - in order to be tested.
And it very well may be that they can be carriers. We've seen this in children. They have the virus. They can spread the virus.
But a lot times, especially in China, when they first went in, and they looked it, what they found is that in most of the family situations, it seemed to be the adults giving the kids the virus, and not the kids giving the adults the virus.
That still remains to be seen. I would not still say that any child that's infected should be isolated, just like any adult that's infected.
But it's something that we have to watch out for, and is one of the things that as we try to figure out the spread, as our capacity to test goes up and up, we will be looking at kids - kids and the ones who are symptomatic the first.
CUOMO: Let me tell you, Dr. Esper, you are obviously smart as hell. Thank you for working on this situation. Let me know if there's anything we can do here to get information out that you think is valuable to the public. God bless.
ESPER: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: And good luck with the work going forward.
ESPER: Good to be here.
CUOMO: All right, look, you know, an interview like that, it should hopefully bring down the fear factor a little bit.
[21:25:00] Look, you got reason to be worried, OK? Good reason! So, on that score, I asked you to send me some of your questions about what you're dealing with day-by-day, what's giving you the most anxiety.
And who do you think would be the best person to arm you with the facts? How about Chief Doctor, Sanjay Gupta, back to answer the questions, next, Chief Doctor.
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CUOMO: Look, here's the good news. A lot of us have the same questions about Coronavirus, OK? We stop each other on the street. It's online. And you get mixed messages out of the White House. There's a lot of misinformation out there.
So, let's get you the facts best we can, all right? We're going to take your questions directly to the Chief Doctor, Sanjay Gupta.
It's good to see you, as always, my friend.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: Question number one. How can you tell the difference between flu symptoms versus Coronavirus? And if you've had the flu, can you still get Coronavirus?
GUPTA: So, the first question, it's hard to tell. I mean it's interesting, and I went back and looked at the China data very, very carefully.
[21:30:00]
And early on, when they - when they didn't have enough tests, very early on, they were starting to do what's called clinical diagnosis, just based on someone's symptoms, trying to determine.
And they started to say things like runny nose, for example, were far less likely to be Coronavirus because Coronavirus affected the lower respiratory system more. But it's hard to count on that.
That's why we really need these tests because people can have mild symptoms of Coronavirus that look like flu or vice versa so, you know, the - the tests is really the only way to know for sure.
CUOMO: Can you get Coronavirus twice?
GUPTA: So, this is - this has come up. There's been some reports of this happening.
I asked Dr. Fauci about this. And he said basically once you get infected, for a period of time, you should be immunized against. It's like getting a vaccine when you get the infection.
Question we don't know is how long does that immunity last. I mean is it a few weeks, a few months, is it next season? So we're - we're not sure about that.
CUOMO: If I live with someone coming back from another country, Coronavirus tested or not, do I quarantine with them?
GUPTA: You don't need to. I mean this is - this comes up a lot.
But the people that need to be quarantined are people who've actually been in one of these areas where the virus was known to be circulating. They themselves develop symptoms, and obviously, if they test positive.
Someone who is a partner of that person doesn't necessarily need to quarantine, unless the person becomes symptomatic.
CUOMO: How long does it take to become symptomatic? And how long after you have it, God forbid, are you contagious?
GUPTA: Yes, so about five days, on average, to become symptomatic, from time of exposure to time you develop symptoms.
But, as you know Chris, it can be up to 14 days, which is why those quarantine periods were 14 days long. And it turns out you can be symptomatic, you can, I'm sorry, be able to spread this even for a period of time after your symptoms go away.
That first patient in Washington State, several days after he - symptoms were gone, they were still finding evidence of the - the virus in the swabs.
CUOMO: You guys use a word, fomatic like--
GUPTA: Fomite.
CUOMO: Fomite.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: Which is like, you know, inanimate objects. So, how that you can get this because I cough on you, which would probably be the end of our relationship, or because you pick it up off a surface--
GUPTA: Right.
CUOMO: --how long can the thing live like on my desk? GUPTA: Well I'm going to give you the answer, and I don't want people to freak out by this because it can live on surfaces for days actually. There's been several--
CUOMO: Days?
GUPTA: Days. Several studies that have looked at this, certain surfaces in the right condition, it can live for days.
CUOMO: Why copper?
GUPTA: Why does it live so long in copper?
CUOMO: Yes.
GUPTA: I mean, you know, I don't know if it's the specific type of metal it is. I don't know. But I know that even glass or other kinds of metal, where they've done these studies and tests--
CUOMO: Copper is the longest.
GUPTA: Was it longest?
CUOMO: Yes, isn't that weird?
GUPTA: OK. Yes.
CUOMO: Just in the one study.
GUPTA: Yes. So days, but let me - let me just say really quick.
CUOMO: Yes.
GUPTA: It doesn't mean that it's as pathogenic the entire time. You know, the virus may either--
CUOMO: What does that mean?
GUPTA: --the likelihood that's make you sick.
CUOMO: OK.
GUPTA: So, that - that does seem to decrease over time even if you have presence of the virus.
CUOMO: So, that's why it's "Wash the hands, wash the service - surfaces."
GUPTA: Disinfect all the time.
CUOMO: Right.
GUPTA: I mean, you know, look, somebody coughs or sneezes in here, doesn't matter if you disinfected yesterday, you've got to disinfect again.
CUOMO: Go straight ethnic. Be cleaning everything all the time with the harshest cleaners that you can find.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: Another question that wasn't on the list, by the way, and then I'll get to this one before - all right fine. What are the stages for treatment?
GUPTA: So, there's no particular antiviral right now, right? That's - that's what everyone - people think about a vaccine first. And, as you've heard, and, you know--
CUOMO: Yes.
GUPTA: --your friend, Tony Fauci, he's - he's talked about the fact, takes a year.
And, by the way, that's not a reflection of the fact that, you know, we're a much more sophisticated medical system than during the last pandemic, it just takes time to do those trials.
Antivirals would be the next stage, antiviral different than an antibiotic. Antibiotic's for bacterial infection. This, for viral infection.
Right now, they're looking at existing antivirals, and they're doing the trials, to see if it might benefit. We could have some of those results even within the next few months, which should be great.
CUOMO: And I know there's some information popping around from Italy and other places about things they've used.
GUPTA: That's right.
CUOMO: And they're looking into. That'll be part of it.
Now, the last part of treatment is where people go into the hospital, and they're on ventilators, and that takes us to capacity, which I believe is the new testing, you know, that concern that we're not getting it done on testing.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: My new frustration has transferred to capacity.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: That you know now you're not going to have enough capacity.
GUPTA: That's right.
CUOMO: You know now you have to do something about it, and I've heard nothing about it last night, or from anybody.
GUPTA: Yes, look, I mean you were one of the first, we started talking about testing very early, you're absolutely right. I mean I was in New Rochelle today, Chris, and this is a - I was there because it's the largest cluster of patients with the Coronavirus in New York State. The hospital there, Montefiore Hospital there, their ICU is full. They have 12 ICU beds. They're full.
CUOMO: With this?
GUPTA: Not from Coronavirus.
CUOMO: Ah!
GUPTA: But from flu. And so they have one patient with Coronavirus there. They have a 148 that are sort of isolating in their homes typically, and there are other patients who are currently being monitored.
So, what happens if these patients start to need ICU care? Right now, because it's Montefiore, they got several hospitals in the system. They can start going on what they call diversion to these other hospitals.
But, to your point, they're - they're going to run out of space, they're going to run out of equipment, they're going to run out of staff.
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There - there - we know what the projected number of hospital beds, ICU beds, and ventilators are for even a moderate pandemic, which, you know, this seems to be, and we don't have that, Chris.
And I - and I haven't gotten great answers on that either. For example, we will need about 64,000 ventilators. That's about the number that we have. But many of them are being used.
We'll need about 200,000 ICU beds. We have about a 100,000 ICU beds. So, you know, we're half short. We're going to have to modify new space. We're going to have to do innovative things, I think.
And - and we can be very good at that. But we should have been doing this, again, I think, to your point, we should have been doing this for the last several weeks because we knew this was coming.
CUOMO: I mean, look, I'm poking around my friends on the military side. And they say, "No, we're not ramping." I mean that's what it's going to take. You're going to need a National Guard kind of extension program here. And I haven't heard about it yet.
We don't have the capacity. China does, obviously, to build things as quickly. But listen, this is one thing--
GUPTA: We got to flatten that curve, like you said, so we can slow down the pace at which people are accessing the medical tests.
CUOMO: And that's why we got to obey, not just this stuff, and this stuff, but stay away from things that ordinarily you do. Life is going to be a little less enjoyable maybe, but maybe you find different ways to enjoy yourself. You spend more time with your family, spend more time at home.
Sanjay, as always, you're a gift.
GUPTA: We'll be talking. Thank you.
CUOMO: All right?
So, The Good Doctor is busy these days. His podcast, "Coronavirus: Fact Versus Fiction" is a must. It's updated all the time with the best information. Now, he's got to go get ready. We have a special CNN Facebook Global Town Hall, right after us, 10:00 P.M. Eastern, all the latest.
Our thanks to The Good Doctor.
GUPTA: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: Look, we keep doing all of this informational stuff because we're in uncharted territory. Doesn't mean we're lost, even with the economy.
Alexis Glick is here. Why did I ask her to come in as a special favor? Well because she understands the markets and she understands how this could impact communities, schools, in ways that we're not thinking about it.
Alexis Glick, ahead.
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CUOMO: Latest count, 10,000 schools closed or set for closure. Now, what does that mean? You know, a lot of parents watching this show right, scrambling to readjust to the new norm. What are you going to do with your kids and childcare?
And you know what? For a lot of people in public schools, those kids eat in those schools, in a way they cannot eat outside of the school. That's why Financial Expert, Alexis Glick, very important to have you now. Because of GENYOUth, and, you know, you know schools, and you know communities, and you know underprivileged in a way that far exceeds what you knew at Morgan Stanley, and everything you've done with so much brilliance on TV.
So, first, your market hat, and then we'll put on the other hat.
ALEXIS GLICK, FINANCIAL EXPERT, CEO, GENYOUTH FOUNDATION, FORMER WALL STREET EXECUTIVE: OK.
CUOMO: People see "Everything's gone from 2017. All the - the Trump boom is gone, and it's only going to get worse, it'll never stop," what is the why now, and what are the things to look for going forward?
GLICK: Well look, I mean we have exacerbated the downward spiral over the last 42, you know, 48 to 72 hours, if we're - if we're honest. We've lost $11 trillion in value if you just look at the 3,000 largest companies. We've wiped away their values from the start of the Administration.
We've had two trading halts this week, the first ever in history, OK? I mean if you look, we're in a bear market. Market's now down north of 20 percent. So, we have seen such tremendous carnage in the last three to four weeks.
But, at the end of the day, what we need now is targeted intelligent bipartisan action. There are two forms of action that we could pull right now, two levers.
There's monetary policy, which is the Federal Reserve, changing either interest rates, or providing money supply, which means liquidity. What have we seen them do so far?
An emergency rate cut last week of 50 basis points, half a point. The - they are meeting next week. The expectation is they'll do at least another half a point, maybe a full point.
CUOMO: How much do they have to do?
GLICK: We - we are right now between 1 and 1.25. So, if they do a full point, at the meeting next week, we're basically out of power.
CUOMO: So, money's almost freeze.
GLICK: So - exactly. Money and rates are almost near zero.
CUOMO: So, you're almost that - then you have no more tools to use.
GLICK: You have very few tools. OK.
So, the second thing that they've done is they - they announced today that they're pumping $1.5 trillion into the markets, into what are called the repo markets, and a lot of the government treasuries. Why are they doing that? Because they're allowing banks to give high level collateral back to
the government in return for cash, because a lot of the biggest corporations, and specific industries are going to their credit lines, and their revolving lines, or small businesses, because they're in a cash crunch, because everything has stopped so suddenly.
CUOMO: So, when he said last night, the Small Business Administration has been told too, is that what that's about?
GLICK: Yes, so well that's one piece of the equation.
But what you really saw in terms of the Fed action was to give the banks the access to liquidity that they need, so yes, they can help small business lines of credit, but also help the big institutions that right now are drawing down large lines of credit.
I mean you see revolvers being drawn down by tens of - $13 billion, I think--
CUOMO: Yes.
GLICK: --Boeing did the other day.
But the second piece of this, Chris, is what's called fiscal policy, OK? And that's where you can do something with taxes, that's government spending, and that's to increase demand, and that's our issue right now.
So, the notion of what we could do on a bipartisan basis, this bill, this is incredibly important, and we've got to act judiciously, and it's got to be targeted.
And when I mean targeted, I mean we've got to be focused on paid sick leave. We've got to be focused on small business owners. They account for six--
CUOMO: Like now. It has to happen now before the need--
GLICK: Like now.
CUOMO: --hits us. And then--
GLICK: Yes, like--
CUOMO: --it's too late.
GLICK: Yes, now, like that's 60 million people who are employed in small businesses.
CUOMO: But they're not doing it now.
GLICK: No. And--
CUOMO: McConnell says he'll keep the Senate open to consider it, but has to happen now.
GLICK: Yes.
CUOMO: I want to ask you something else now--
GLICK: Sure.
CUOMO: --before I lose your expertise.
GLICK: Yes.
CUOMO: You're always welcome back.
GLICK: Yes.
CUOMO: And - and I really appreciate you doing this now. We hear closing schools. Great!
GLICK: Yes.
CUOMO: They'll all go home. You say, think about two things.
One, the kids who needed those schools beyond the academics, and we're going to talk about the elderly, and the vulnerable, remember which populations they belong to most as well, and we have to remember about that when we're apportioning need.
GLICK: OK. I just put up a piece on - on GENYOUthNow.org. about this. Let me explain the way it works with schools.
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There are 55 million kids in the school system in the United States. 30 million of those kids rely on School Lunch Program. They are free or reduced eligible meals. 15 million kids participate in School Breakfast.
The decision by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and on a statewide basis, and the guidelines by CDC, and the School Nutrition Association, could not come at a more critical time.
We are in the most unprecedented time we have ever seen in the school environment. And here is why.
The issue is, is that school buildings, either have to allow themselves to stay open to provide those meals, or they have to file for waivers to change where meals will be delivered. This is a major issue.
We have school buses now delivering meals to kids and communities. You have 40 million low-income folks on SNAP programs, Food Stamp programs. So, the question is as a part of this bill, are we going to increase SNAP funding to families to make up for the meals that they're not getting in the school building?
And oh, by the way, right now, 24 percent of civilian workers do not get paid leave. That's 34 million people do not get paid leave.
CUOMO: They can change that if they get lot of them (ph).
GLICK: They can change that. So, right now, the biggest cause for concern about widespread school shutdowns is we've got to feed our kids.
So, we have to make sure that in the communities we're mobilizing, we're using mobile trucks, we're using school buses, whether it's churches, whether it's buildings, but they have - we have to be careful that we're not congregating kids because what we're telling everybody right now--
CUOMO: Don't get in big groups.
GLICK: Exactly.
CUOMO: All right, so let's do this. Well you're going to do what you do already with GENYOUth. It's amazing organization. You can look it up for yourself online. You'll track the need.
GLICK: Yes.
CUOMO: We'll keep talking.
GLICK: I would love that.
CUOMO: I'll chase after power to make sure that this is part of what they're doing to fix it and--
GLICK: Super important.
CUOMO: --sooner rather than later, because once the need hits, it's too late.
GLICK: Exactly.
CUOMO: Thank you very much. I've known you a long time. I love you. I can't hug you because the doctor says we can't.
GLICK: Thank you.
CUOMO: But the best to you and the family. Thank you, Alexis, appreciate it.
GLICK: Thank you so much.
CUOMO: All right, so look, we're going to have to figure out how to get through this. And a lot of the prevention is going to help us do there. But I got to tell you, we're off on our perspective.
We're not taking the information we're getting the right way, and we're not seeing what the solution is, even though it's right in front of our faces. That's my argument for you, next.
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CUOMO: All right, hear me out about this.
The numbers are going to go up. I don't think that means that it's all about getting worse, and this isn't semantics. Why?
Because when the numbers come up, you're going to see a lot more good outcomes, outcomes where people, yes, they're sick, but they get better. In fact, 80 percent are expected to be that way.
Make no mistake. The dead are going to be real. And out of more than 1,600 cases that we know of so far, and that number's way low, 41 people have died. But remember this, out of the 41, 24 died in one elderly facility.
This is not about our downfall. It is about how fast we will lift ourselves up. And I'm talking about you, your family, your community, not about what's going to be done for us, from on high, because you saw Trump last night, right?
He made Marco Rubio's water grab look cool-headed, all right? He couldn't get the facts right last night.
Poor Marco!
Exhibit A, listen to the President.
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TRUMP: We will be suspending all travel from Europe to the United States.
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CUOMO: False! But U.S. citizens and permanent residents can come back. He didn't make that clear.
Exhibit B.
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TRUMP: These prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but various other things, as we get approval.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Seems scared when he was saying it. He should have been because it was wrong. He tweeted afterwards that the restriction stops people, not goods.
One more, Exhibit C.
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TRUMP: I met with the leaders of health insurance industry, who have agreed to waive all co-payments for Coronavirus treatments.
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CUOMO: Look, he's wrong again. Health insurance companies said they'd waive costs for the tests, not for treatments.
Look, he didn't know what he was talking about. We know he lies. But, more importantly, look, it was clear to you. Be honest. He's not up to this challenge. You know he - who he is, and who he is not.
But here's the bigger point. This government is so much bigger than him. You're seeing the power and potential of government when it's done right.
My question is not about him. The question is who are you? Who are we? Will you do what is asked of you? Will you help others, even if it means giving up what you want for yourself?
Will you remember why government matters, and stop trashing it out of political convenience, while leadership matters, and you can't just have anybody in there in Office, why integrity, and experience, and decency matter.
Look at what we're being asked to do. "Keep your distance, limit, forbear, face fear." Everybody's looking at it as, "Oh, this stinks for us." I argue the opposite. I think it's going to bring us closer together, two reasons, because this isn't about manufactured us versus them, Left versus Right, White versus Brown.
We're all exposed. We are all in it together, literally, all right? Now, there's a lot we don't know about this. There are legitimate questions about preparation and even over-preparation.
But there's an obvious truth that we've ignored, distracted by political division in a bad case of us versus them, fueled by a President who sees anger as an agency for his success, as division as a way of keeping power, and keeping us apart.
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But now, we are painfully aware of our greatest medicine. It is our interconnectedness, can't be touching each other that much right now, but there is an interdependence. What does that mean?
I need you protect my family, my mother, my in-laws, the vulnerable. And you need me to do the same for you. Well you hold up your side, I promise you, I will do my best. That's my argument.
We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: All right, little bit of breaking news that just came in. I want you to have.
The Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, just confirmed through his Office that his wife has tested positive for Coronavirus. She is in quarantine. He is also in self-imposed quarantine right now, not showing symptoms.
We're going to see more of this. The test is how we respond. If we do what we're being told to do, we'll get better sooner.
Up next, Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta, with a CNN Global Town Hall "Coronavirus: Facts and Fears with Facebook."
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