Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Six States Closing All Schools Over Virus Fears; Growing Outrage Over Lack of Tests As Virus Spread; Trump's Travel Restrictions Go into Effect at Midnight; Coronavirus Concerns Wipe Out Sports Calendar; Outbreak Upends Schools, Sports, Entertainment World; U.S. Virus Testing Criticized Amid Shortage and Restrictive Guidelines; U.S. on Verge of Shutdown as Outbreak Shows No Signs of Slowing Down. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired March 13, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:14]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

The question this morning, where are the tests? The United States is on the verge of a shutdown as the coronavirus spreads across the country. Entire states and large cities closing all of their schools, impacting millions of students and their families.

SCIUTTO: A whole host of organizations responding in this way. Of course the sports world now rocked, tournaments, seasons canceled, so are concert tours, late-night TV show audiences, Disney World and Broadway all dark.

HARLOW: That's right. More and more areas banning any large gatherings. And for Americans in Europe, a scramble is on to get home before the president's new travel ban kicks in. And of course that starts tonight.

And this virus is sparing no one. The wife of the Canadian prime minister has tested positive for coronavirus. Justin Trudeau says he will now go into self-quarantine.

SCIUTTO: The nature of this, of course, that anyone is at risk. President Trump, his daughter Ivanka were both in close contact with officials who have now tested positive. Trump this morning laying out blame, he's targeting the CDC and the Obama administration. This as outrage grows over the lack of testing in this country. He claims testing will happen soon on a very large scale basis. But fact is, he's made that promise for weeks. It's has not been delivered on.

Our team is covering this pandemic from coast to coast. Let's begin with CNN correspondent Martin Savidge -- Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're in Yonkers, New York, where schools are closed today because of coronavirus that's in the area. Whether they'll be remaining closed next week, that's still to be determined. But across the country, you've got six states that now have shut down their entire public school systems. I'll just run through the list. Oregon, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Maryland, New Mexico.

Other states have put their residents on notice that they too are likely to shut down their entire public school systems. They're trying to get families a couple of days' notice so they can prepare for daycare and how they're going to handle that circumstance. And then you got major cities that already are under some kind of shutdown because of the coronavirus.

There is lots of school districts have to contemplate here. It is not just how are they going to try to continue to educate kids, in some cases yes, they can go online, in other places they are going old school, sending home study packets with students. But then there is the issue of feeding many students. There are a lot of communities where those families rely very much on the meals that are provided inside of schools. Some 30 million meals a day across the country.

In those cases, school districts are setting up off site food distribution sites and then on top of that, they're also using community churches. In other cases they're simply loading the children up with food to take home with them. And then there is the issue of safety. In some communities the school is the safest place for a child. That's why Mayor Bill de Blasio says that New York City public schools are going to remain open. They're needed not only for learning, they're needed for feeding, and they are needed in some cases for safety.

It is a case by case, community by community situation and it changes by the hour -- Poppy and Jim.

HARLOW: Every family in this country is hoping for answers and hoping that they're kid has what they need, no matter their predicament.

Marty, we appreciate your reporting. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the number of cases in the U.S. keeps rising, but fact is those official numbers may underestimate the true spread of this disease. What are the tests?

Let's get to CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, let's listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci, his answer to the question on tests this morning. I want to get your reaction. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: There was a disconnect there for sure. We have to admit that, it is unfortunate, but it is going in the right direction right now. No denying there was a bit of a disconnect where people here that a test could be available to anybody and they go into a doctor's office and they didn't get it. That's unfortunate. What we're looking now is looking forward. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Of course where people hear, that is from the president. He said that last week if you want to get a test, you could get a test.

What are the facts now? Because every week we hear there will be millions of tests available. Today, 10,000 tests across this country? When will that change?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, you know, I mean, I -- this has been a really tough thing to report on because every single day we're hearing that it's going to get better, it's getting better or it's already done.

And that's obviously not the case yet. And you know, what you're hearing from Dr. Fauci I think is probably the most -- the strongest language sort of conceding this point. And you know, we talked to him last night as well. And he sort of said, look, there has been these disconnects, there has been these short falls and he described it as a failure during his hearings a couple of days ago.

[09:05:09]

But he's also very clear, he said the same thing to us that, you know, he's all about, like, OK, now we have to move forward. And I think he's right about that.

SCIUTTO: Right.

GUPTA: I will say that, you know, at some point, you know, you do ask yourself, have we missed some of these opportunities? I mean, not missed the boat necessarily, but have we missed --

SCIUTTO: Right.

GUPTA: Are we too late in terms of actually testing? I don't think we're there yet. I asked Dr. Fauci about that. But it would have been better to have a lot more a lot earlier because you would have known what we were dealing with and then you would strategized based on that information.

SCIUTTO: Right.

GUPTA: And we didn't have the opportunity to do that.

SCIUTTO: OK. So there was a WHO test available.

GUPTA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Why didn't -- what was Fauci's answers as to why the U.S. didn't use that test when it was clear that the CDC's tests were not working?

GUPTA: Well, his answer was basically that, look, for -- you know, going back through various other pandemics and outbreaks, this is how they've always done it. The CDC has created their own test, and that test was widely distributed and that was sort of the plan here. That didn't work. Those tests were flawed, that were initially sent out. At that point, you -- should they have basically gotten those WHO tests that were actually designed in Berlin?

And he said, well, yes, maybe, basically, maybe we should have done that at that point. And by the way, it wasn't necessarily him, because he's not CDC but the CDC didn't do that. You know, I think -- I have said and I know, Jim, you and I have talked about this, I think that was a mistake. I mean, I think it pretty clearly quickly was a mistake. And I don't say that lightly. I mean, we're talking about a public health department.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: That's one of the best in the world, but there have been mistakes made here and they have been costly ones with this particular pandemic.

SCIUTTO: OK. Question. Because this country hasn't tested very far and wide, right, the figures we show almost certainly underestimate the actual number of Americans who have this disease. Epidemiologists are consistently estimating that when all is said and done, that as much as 40 percent to 60 percent of the population will be exposed to this.

Is that reasonable? And what does this then mean for the number of Americans who will experience a severe version of this disease, this virus, and need to be hospitalized?

GUPTA: Yes, no, I think those numbers are real. And, you know, the public health officials have been saying this for some time again. This isn't the -- we now think it is 40 percent to 60 percent. I think it is always thought to be that this was a very contagious virus.

The difference just to be clear, Jim, has been that it has not been to sort of say that wasn't going to potentially affect that many people, it was a question of how quickly would it affect that many people. Would you get a sudden burst of patients who are infected.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: All up front or could you, and this term has been used a lot now, flatten the curve?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: So you're seeing the same number of patients, but you see them over months instead which doesn't put the same tax on the healthcare system. That's really what it's all about. If you can see that same number of patients over time, it's a lot easier than 20, 30, 40, 50 million patients basically all at the same time.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: But it does mean, I think to your second point, that when you're starting to talk about 100, 150 million people potentially who are affected by this, that, you know, could 10, 15 million people need to access the hospital system for this, hundreds of thousands of people need to be in intensive care units and, you know, lots of people needing breathing machines, yes, the answer to that question is yes. And that shouldn't be alarming. That should be a rallying cry to say let's get going here. Let's get ready for this.

SCIUTTO: That's -- it's a disturbing number. We're going to stay on top of it.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

GUPTA: You bet.

SCIUTTO: And please stay with us because we got more questions for you.

HARLOW: Yes. Many more questions. Dr. Gupta, thank you.

So let's turn now to Americans overseas trying to get home before midnight tonight, which is the president's deadline in terms of the travel restriction from Europe. Let's go to our Nic Robertson, he's London.

Nic, because there was confusion in the president's Oval Office address earlier this week, can you explain exactly what needs to happen tonight by midnight?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Anyone who is in those 26 countries that were -- that are under the ban, the Schengen area of Europe, they need to get home to the United States by midnight tonight. People living in the U.K. will be able to continue to travel from here to the United States. So I was talking to people lining up to fly to -- fly back to the United States today.

A couple of students there had told us that they have been told by the university, their own overseas program, they needed to get back immediately. They were at the airport, getting back as fast as they could. I talked to another couple here on business and pleasure. And they'd also heard what President Trump had said, that they were confused by it, and they didn't want to take any chances.

They were trying to get home as soon as possible. They all said that they were having to pay over regular prices, just to get a ticket. We talked here to another couple who were in Spain when the news came through, their children called them up and said get home as fast as you can.

[09:10:06]

They went to the airport. They couldn't get a flight back to the United States. They were lucky enough they say to get a flight here to London, but are still trying to figure out how to make the hop across the Atlantic. People are desperately trying to get back. It is a real concern. And at the moment, the reality for some of them is, they haven't yet got those tickets booked and they do need to be home, some of them, by midnight.

HARLOW: Yes. Nic, thank you very much for that reporting. So many people in that situation.

The coronavirus also hugely, Jim, affecting the sports world.

SCIUTTO: It is right. It is a measure of how communities and organizations are responding to this. Several of the world's biggest sports leagues are shutting down, or telling fans to stay away.

Andy Scholes joins us to explain.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Poppy. I mean, it's just unbelievable how quickly all of this happened. You know, in a matter of 48 hours, the entire sports world just coming to a halt. The NHL following the NBA, suspending their season, Major League Baseball, delayed opening day for at least two weeks. The PGA Tour meanwhile canceling the rest of the players championship. And the next three events, the next big sports domino, of course, is the Masters.

Will it take place starting April 9th? If so will fans, patrons be allowed to watch? Last week Augusta National said they were monitoring the situation. And as of now, the tournament was on as planned.

March Madness, of course, though, their biggest event to go down due to coronavirus concerns. The first time it's ever been cancelled. The men's tournament goes all the way back to 1939. The NCAA also, though, canceling the spring championships. So, you know, maybe we're talking about it yesterday but we're not going to have a college World Series for the men or the women.

Now the NBA, of course, on everyone's mind, Commissioner Adam Silver, he joined "INSIDE THE NBA" last night on TNT, said the season is going to be suspended for at least 30 days. He said we could have an NBA Finals in July. But Commissioner Silver also did not rule out the possibility of the season being canceled altogether.

Now Utah Jazz all-star Donovan Mitchell confirming yesterday that he was the second player to test positive for the coronavirus. His teammate, fellow all-star Rudy Gobert, he was the first to test positive. That led to the NBA suspending the season.

Gobert apologizing for being reckless in an Instagram post saying, "The first and most important thing is I would like to publicly apologize to the people I may have endangered. At the time I had no idea I was even infected. I was careless and make no excuse, I hope my story serves as a warning and causes everyone to take this seriously.

Now Gobert had come under fire for playfully touching all of the medium microphones during an availability that they had earlier this week.

Now during last night's "Inside the NBA" show, Charles Barkley, he was not in the studio, because he revealed after a recent trip to New York he wasn't feeling well and he was actually self-quarantining. He was tested for coronavirus and is awaiting the results.

And, you know, Jim and Poppy, we spoke to Charles yesterday. And, you know, he came on to talk to us about what was going on with the NBA and NCAA. So we certainly hope he gets well soon.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCHOLES: And everything is OK with him.

HARLOW: Absolutely. He was on with us about this time yesterday morning and had no idea.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And look how much has changed in 24 hours.

Andy, appreciate the reporting on all those fronts.

As this pandemic hits the United States and around the world, markets are taking a big hit this week. Yesterday, we saw the biggest drop since Black Monday of '87. But look at futures now. Dow Futures up 5 plus percent. More than a thousand points. We're going to explain to you why this is happening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

SCIUTTO: All types of entertainment, theaters, museums, theme parks, they're all closing as they get concerned about the spread of this virus.

HARLOW: I mean, so telling as we bring in our Dan Simon in California. The Disneyland is closing for weeks, Dan.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy and Jim, it's hard to imagine the economic impact that a Disneyland closure is going to have on the local economy. We're not just talking about a day or two, we're talking about for the rest of the month. Now, we know that beginning tomorrow, Disneyland Park as well as California Adventure next door, they're both going to be closed.

And we can tell you, though, that for the 38,000 employees, they can breathe a little easier because they're going to continue to get paid. But why is this happening? We know that California Governor Gavin Newsom issued an executive order that all public gatherings with more than 250 people should be canceled or postponed. Now, we should point out that Disney was actually exempt from that order, but that they went ahead and canceled the parks.

And they've actually followed suit with Disney World in Orlando as well as Disneyland in Paris and Disney Cruises, they are also suspended. And so just goes to show you what a free-fall global tourism is now experiencing right now. And we also know that in New York as well, Broadway shows also being suspended. Jim and Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Listen, why are they doing that? Because the experts say social distancing works, keep people out of large groups, so you slow down the spread, Dan Simon, thanks so much. So let's speak to the expert, let's speak to the doctors, Dr. Sanjay Gupta back along with Dr. Celine Gounder; she's an infectious diseases specialist at the NYU's School of Medicine. Thanks to both of you for being on.

Sanjay, we spoke about this just a few moments ago. As this spreads, I mean, you mentioned the prospect of millions of Americans exposed to this, which then raises the question of many thousands perhaps, who need hospitalization or beyond that. Then the question becomes can the hospitals --

GUPTA: Yes --

SCIUTTO: Handle that uptick. You had an interesting and somewhat disturbing exchange with an administration official on the availability of respirators in particular. So, key this -- I want to play that and get your reaction. Have a listen.

GUPTA: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: The concern is that there might be preventable deaths. You have to act now, don't you?

[09:20:00]

SEEMA VERMA, ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE & MEDICAID SERVICES: Well, that's exactly what we're doing. That is exactly what we're doing. We're acting now to mitigate the spread, we are --

GUPTA: I'm talking about the ventilators, administrator Verma.

VERMA: We have it, we have ventilators. And at this time --

GUPTA: You don't have enough ventilators.

VERMA: At this time, we have -- we've heard from a couple of hospitals and we're working with them, but I think that's why it is so important that we work towards mitigation to avoid that situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: One, was she being honest there, Sanjay, and to explain the shortage of ventilators so folks at home understand?

GUPTA: Sure, well, you know, and I just pulled these numbers again, because I wanted to make sure I gave you the exact numbers that we're talking about here. And these are projections from the federal government. In a moderate -- mild to moderate pandemic in the United States, if that were to happen, the question that they were trying to figure out is how many hospital beds, how many ICU beds and how many ventilators would we need?

Going to the ventilators, they say we would need about 64,000-plus ventilators. Now, what we have in this country right now is 62,000, and about 10,000 which Administrator Verma mentioned in the national stockpile. So, 72, which is more than 64. But the problem, Jim, is that we're in flu season, and there's a lot of people who are currently using those ventilators. In fact, the majority of them are being used. I was at a hospital in

New Rochelle yesterday, and their ICU is already completely full, not with all coronavirus patients, a lot of them with flu patients, but the point is that we don't have the resources necessary that we need, and we have the projections on what those needs are going to be. I think -- I had no reason to believe that she was not being honest.

I think that it's just a question of how prepared can we be, and if we wait too long, are we going to be able to catch up? I mean, it's been a constant question almost through every aspect of this, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: OK, Dr. Gounder, this is the most frequent question I am getting from fellow parents especially here in New York City where people live in tight quarters. What do parents do if they test positive for coronavirus and are told to self-quarantine at home and live in a one-bedroom apartment, a two-bedroom apartment or a house, do they not see their kids? Do they stay in their bedroom? What do they do?

CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SPECIALIST, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, the fact is, probably at that point, everyone in the family has already been exposed. We see this with other infectious diseases like tuberculosis. You know, do you separate the person who has been diagnosed from the rest of the family. And sometimes that's just not feasible.

What you can do when possible is have people sleep in different rooms, obviously if you're in a one bedroom or a studio, that's not always feasible either. But frankly, you know, children are at much lower risk for severe disease, they are the ones that seem to be escaping the worst of this. So, if you as a parent are diagnosed, I think the best thing is just, you know, keep doing what you're doing, just have everybody stay at home for a quarantine period of 14 days, and that's really the best we can offer at this stage.

HARLOW: Sanjay, I want to ask about what we're learning from other countries that have been through this, particularly China, and Italy. And there is a lot of data here, and I know you and other experts are going through. One thing that struck me, there is an epidemiologist at University of Minnesota who drew attention to Italy's experience where severe cases of this exposure went outside the elderly.

That they're seeing a lot of 40-something patients there experiencing severe symptoms from this. Are we learning from the data that it is not just the elderly who are a risk group for this or is it too early to say that?

GUPTA: Well, I want to say three things to this because you're raising a very important point. First, I want to be humble because, you know, this is a new virus, we are still all learning together along the way. Two is that even with flu, for example, which primarily will affect the elderly and the very young, you do see patients who are in their -- you know, 40s and 50s who unfortunately sometimes get very sick and die from the flu. There are sort of more outliers, but it does happen. But the third

point, I think Jim, sort of goes back to the conversation we just had. Why are some of these folks dying in these places, even going back to Hubei Province, what you find talking to colleagues over there, that some of that was because of the enormous stress on the medical system. People who would have otherwise been able to get good care and more likely to have recovered, you know, didn't have that chance because of that stress.

They couldn't get the care they needed in the timely sort of way. We're seeing some of that same stuff in Italy, Ben Wedeman's reporting out of northern Italy has been really unbelievable to see what he's seeing. The hospitals are overrun as he described it, that is the situation you're trying to avoid here because, you know, if you don't avoid that situation, then people who would have otherwise recovered well with --

HARLOW: Right --

GUPTA: More minimal treatment, they don't --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And that chart that's going around, Sanjay, of flatten the curve, so you don't have a peak --

GUPTA: That's right --

HARLOW: You spread it out, there are enough resources to save more lives. That's why listening and social distancing is so important. Dr. Gounder, do we know definitively that our children, whether they be infants or toddlers or 9, 10, 11, are not as susceptible to this, do we know that for sure yet or is it just a presumption?

[09:25:00]

GOUNDER: We really have not seen severe cases of disease in that group. So, the children under 18 in particular. Now that said, I completely agree with Sanjay, you know, I'm hearing from providers out in Seattle that they definitely are seeing people in their 30s and 40s with very severe disease who are ending up on ventilators. So, it's not --

SCIUTTO: Wow --

GOUNDER: Is less common, and you know, then the severe cases among the 70 and 80-plus. But it is happening.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. We're learning so much as we go on. I think there's something that I know you're aware of as experts and just want our viewers to be aware of that too. We're bringing you the data as we have it because folks are learning as we go. Final question if I can, Sanjay, just in terms of how these things operate in general, an outbreak, there is some expectation that you'll tail off a bit as weather gets warmer. That's the nature of --

GUPTA: Yes --

SCIUTTO: A flu spread. But then concern that as you get back into the next Winter and Fall, that it might come up again. Is it too early to look forward to the ebb and flow of this?

GUPTA: I think it's too early. You know, I mean, we don't know because it's a novel virus. Although there is -- you know, I mean, Dr. Gounder would probably agree that the flu virus and even previous coronaviruses, there was some evidence with the warmer weather, but there was sort of a peak I believe with SARS sort of end of March, early April, and then you did start to see this sort of diminishing of cases.

One thing I want to point out, though, you know, if it does come back, there is a good chance that many of us will have because we'll have been exposed --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GUPTA: We will have immunity to this. So, it won't be, hopefully, as severe in terms of the impact that next time around.

HARLOW: Sanjay, do have one follow-up, and that is my good friend called me last night, her mother just got tested in Colorado, it's going to take five days, she was told for the results to come back. Five days. Is that normal, and is the CDC the only place that can tell you if you have this or not?

GUPTA: Right. That sounds a bit little long, I'm hearing three to four days and some of that --

HARLOW: OK --

GUPTA: I mean, the lab test itself takes --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GUPTA: Several hours, but just getting the -- sending it to the lab, getting it back, some of the places like Nebraska and Washington are now starting to test on site at the university so they can get the results back much more quickly. So, you know, that sounds a little bit long, but not out of --

HARLOW: OK --

GUPTA: Out of the --

HARLOW: OK, yes --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: People should remember, right? Jim, flu tests, you get it in the doctor's office, you know in 15 minutes. You know, our stress tests --

SCIUTTO: South Korea -- HARLOW: Same thing --

SCIUTTO: South Korea instituted drive-up testing -- drive-through testing --

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: You know, it's --

HARLOW: OK, thank you, doctors, very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We are just moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. The markets today set to end the wild week. More volatility, you do see there, though, futures showing a jump, a significant one at the open. Is that lasting? We're going to bring you all we know live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)