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Trump Admin Planning for Potential 18-Month Pandemic; NYSE to Close Trading Floor, U.S.-Canada Border Closing; 8,400+ U.S. Coronavirus Cases, 143 Deaths; Thousands of Flights Canceled, Millions of Jobs at Risk Amid Shutdown; Trump Says Coronavirus Testing is Expanding; Labs Say They are Short on Tests Because They're Missing Key Parts. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 18, 2020 - 19:00   ET


WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WOLFBLITZER. Tweet the show @CNNSITROOM.

Erin Burnett OUTFRONT starts right now.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, OUTFRONT next America at war with coronavirus and the White House preparing for a battle that could last 18 months or longer.

And two Americans both with coronavirus, one says it was a battle on her body. The other said it was like a cold. They'll both be OUTFRONT.

Plus, the New York Stock Exchange set to close the floor, move to electronic trading, a move in history after another steep dive in the markets amid talk now about a depression.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, war on coronavirus. President Trump saying today he now sees himself as a wartime President as trading is temporarily halted, stocks plunging even farther and America closes its border with Canada.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you consider American to be on a wartime footing in terms of fighting this virus?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do. I actually do. I look at it - I view it as, in a sense, a wartime president. I mean, that's what we're fighting. I mean, it's a very tough situation here.


BURNETT: The President announcing he is also deploying two Navy hospital ships to help when hospitals run out of beds, but will it be enough? Because according to a federal plan obtained today by CNN, the Trump administration is making plans for this to last and I quote, 18 months or longer, and the plan says there could be 'multiple waves of illness'. Nick Watt is OUTFRONT in Los Angeles. And Nick, tonight in California,

a quarter of the population in a state which on its own is one of the largest economies in the entire planet is now under shelter-in-place.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Erin. More and more counties following what they started up there in San Francisco. This shelter-in-place, don't go out unless you need to.

And as you mentioned, this is a big state. A quarter of the people were talking maybe nearly 10 million people. And as you mentioned, Erin, when you listen to the President, there is a lot of talk now about this being a war.



TRUMP: It's the invisible enemy.


WATT(voice over): Military metaphors, a sign of the severity and we might still be weeks away from peak infection.


RON KLAIN, FORMER U.S. EBOLA CZAR: We have hospitals that are going to start to break this weekend, not weeks from now, not months from now, in the next few days.


WATT(voice over): The administration tells us there's a federal stockpile of over 10,000 ventilators and more now on order.


TRUMP: There's never been an instance like this where no matter what you have, it's not enough.


WATT(voice over): And one Washington State Hospital, they're now making their own masks using supplies from a craft store.


TRUMP: We've ordered millions of them, but we need millions more.


WATT(voice over): We might also need many more hospital beds and staff.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We're reaching out to retired nurses, retired doctors, nursing schools, medical schools ... (END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT(voice over): Ford, Fiat Chrysler and GM all about to halt us production saying they'll sanitize all of their plants. Nationwide, many workers have already been laid off like Manhattan bartender, Tanya Palkaninas 1900 [00:03:18].


TANYA PALKANINAS, LAID OFF MANHATTAN BARTENDER: I just have to keep living my life, keep getting dressed in the morning, just like there's definitely that ball of anxiety there constantly.


WATT(voice over): JetBlue now calling its losses stunning, saying typical daily takings have fallen from $22 million to an average of $4 four. And they're paying out $20 million a day in cancellation credits. Some executives now taking a 50 percent pay cut.

Misery on misery cancellations at Chicago's Midway because the control tower closed for cleaning after several technicians tested positive for Coronavirus. In San Francisco and elsewhere, millions now allowed out only for essential needs.


MAYOR LONDON BREED (D) SAN FRANCISCO: I mean the streets are fairly empty.


WATT(voice over): Note, essential needs include walking the dog and jogging elsewhere. Some criticism that the young especially aren't taking social distancing seriously.


TRUMP: They don't realize that they can be carrying lots of bad things home to a grandmother and grandfather and even their parents.


WATT(voice over): A federal coronavirus plan obtained by CNN shows the administration now planning for a pandemic that could last 18 months or longer and involve multiple waves of illness.


WATT: And here's another scary statistic as if we needed one here in Los Angeles County, they say that cases have doubled over the past two days. I did the math and it is a similar picture, nationwide cases about doubling in a two-day period. Now nationwide we're over 8,000.

And remember, the experts say that each person who has this virus will give it to two or three other people. That's why we're being told to keep apart from each other. One other word, the first member of Congress, Erin, just announced that he tested positive, Mario Diaz- Balart of Florida.


He's apparently been in self quarantine since Friday, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Nick.

And OUTFRONT now Dr. Luciana Borio, former National Security Director of Medical and Biodefense Preparedness in the Trump administration and Dr. Zeke Emanuel, former Obama White House Health Policy Adviser. Thank you both.

Dr. Emanuel, let me start with you. The new measures, we understand, involve two Navy hospital ships, those won't be ready to go really in the next days at all. It'll They're going to take weeks. But to deal with overload - but the Pentagon confirm they will provide 2,000 hospital beds.

I mean, how many days away are we from knowing how big this surge, this huge surge that they say could be a few days or a week or so away will be?

DR. ZEKE EMANUEL, FORMER WHITE HOUSE HEALTH POLICY ADVISER UNDER OBAMA: Yes, in terms of number of cases you mean or in terms of response?

BURNETT: In terms of how many people need that hospital care.

EMANUEL: Well, It's very interesting because a lot depends on who you admit to the hospital, how sick they are, how many of them need Intensive Care Unit beds. I think we don't fully know. We've done a calculation based upon 20 percent of the population being exposed, which is 64 million people and you get pretty high up pretty rapidly in terms of the demand for things like Intensive Care Unit beds goes over 3 million.

So even if we had 5 percent of the population that was exposed, which is about 16 million people, you're quite rapidly into the hundreds of thousands which needing ICU beds, which dwarfs our capacity. Our capacity even - there's a little bit argument how many ICU beds we actually have for adults, but it's certainly under a hundred thousand.

How long are we still in certain regions, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, a few other real hot spots, we could be less than a week away. Remember, the numbers we're looking at, those 8,000 cases, we don't have a lot of testing. That probably means there are 10 times the number of cases, at least 80,000 cases confirmed and that's 15 days ago because together a positive and have the incubation.


EMANUEL: So you're looking at what the picture was two weeks ago at the start of the month, not really today. So it progressed well beyond those 80,000 cases today, so it's a serious, serious issue. And if only 5 percent of those people need an intensive care unit bed, that's a lot of people built on a system that already had a lot of people in the intensive care unit.

BURNETT: Right. Right. I mean, it's flu season. You got a lot of people in those beds. It's not as if all of them are empty to begin with.

Dr. Borio, President Trump's ...

EMANUEL: Right. People who have heart attack.


EMANUEL: Yes, people who have heart attack.

BURNETT: I mean, you have all kinds of issues every day and people need to be in those beds. So the President signed the wartime law to expand the production of masks and protective gear. But then Dr. Borio, he tweeted that he only signed it 'should we need to invoke it in a worst case scenario in the future'.

So when you look at the situation and I know talking to doctors, even in hospitals where they believe they have maybe the ventilator in the ICU bed situation under control, there's not a hospital in the country that seems to think that they have what they need in terms of masks and the protective gear that prevent the spread of this.

Does he need to invoke this now and produce this now or is there just not even the capacity to produce it?

DR. LUCIANA BORIO, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, MEDICAL & BIODEFENSE PREPAREDNESS UNDER TRUMP: Well, I think that production has been ramped up. I think the private sector has responded very critically to this need. And whether there'll be sufficient supplies really depends on the actions that we take today as a population to implement a social distancing and hygiene measures that federal government, the CDC in particular, has recommended.

It's really ultimately going to be up to us to slow the epidemic curve, to flatten the epidemic curve, so that we get to a point where we don't really break the hospital system. I can't stress that enough. I think Governor Cuomo communicated this very clearly yesterday, where he said that as scientists show him the epidemic curve, what he really see is a wave, not a curve and a wave that has the potential to break upon hospitals.

So the idea is that we really need to work together as a population to shelter-in-place and to avoid social interactions that will continue to propagate to this terrible, terrible epidemic.

BURNETT: So Dr. Emanuel, one crucial thing that could be in short supply, of course, if in some of these and even the moderate case scenarios certainly some of the worst case scenarios are ventilators and Trump was asked about that today and I want to play that exchange for you, doctor.


KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There are a tremendous number of ventilators that we have.


But for weeks hospitals have been worried about a critical shortage that they say we are not prepared for. So why did it take so long to invoke to the defense production?

TRUMP: Well, hospitals are supposed to have ventilators too. And when we have thousands of ventilators, it sounds like a lot, but this is a very unforeseen thing. Nobody ever thought of these numbers.

COLLINS: But we knew for weeks we needed more ventilators, so why did it take so long?

TRUMP: Well, we knew. It depends on how it goes. Worst case? Absolutely. Best case? Not at all. So we're going to have to see where it goes.


BURNETT: Dr. Emanuel, you've worked on emergency preparedness and you've seen what curves like these could look like. I mean, this is the ultimate question, can the U.S. get ventilators if it needs them a lot more than it has given the worldwide demand for them right now? Given that everywhere in the world, they need ventilators.

EMANUEL: Right. It's partially worldwide demand. It's also partially components. Can you get the components out of China, as an example. And Jonathan Cohen had a really good piece in The Huffington Post looking at this. And the problem is we're not going to double the number of ventilators, we have, say go up to 170,000 in the next year. It's just not going to happen.

And I think there's this seems to be the psychology at the White House that, oh, everything will be available, instantaneously, all we have to do is say it. And that's just not the case. I mean, we need 10s of thousands or hundreds of thousands of ventilators. We need probably millions or billions, excuse me, not millions, billions of masks.


EMANUEL: That takes time and even if in World War II, we could gear up to produce a plane every 30 seconds, still we need time to produce this and we need the supplies. We have offshored a lot of the component parts and that I think is going to make it very difficult.

BURNETT: All right. I appreciate both of your time very much. And next, some Americans who still want to be tested, obviously, still can't get tested. Not some, a lot. And now, there is a shortage of the testing supplies.


kinds of chain of testing; there's swabs, there's extraction things, et cetera, et cetera. There are shortages on many pieces of it.


BURNETT: Dr. Sanjay Gupta is next.

Plus, a tale of two patients. One of whom had no obvious symptoms. Another recovering said it was a battle on her body. Both of them are OUTFRONT.

And one in five people unemployed, it could happen and this is according to Trump's Treasury Secretary. Will it, without further intervention, because if it does, you're looking at something as bad as or worse than the Great Depression. I'm going to talk to the man who oversaw the bailouts during the great financial crisis. He's a sitting member of the Fed.



BURNETT: New tonight, a top U.S. official and member of the coronavirus task force warning Americans to prepare for a significant surge in the number of confirmed cases in the next few days and the reason for that is a ramp up in testing.


DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We will see the number of people diagnosed dramatically increase over the next four to five days.


BURNETT: But there's still a critical shortage of tests and testing supplies needed to interpret them.

Drew Griffin is OUTFRONT.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT(voice over): In the cascading shortfalls of the national response to coronavirus testing labs across the country are sounding the next alarm, telling CNN there are shortages, not just in tests, but the components needed to conduct the tests.

The head of a 51-hospital network in the West says key parts are missing.


DR. ROD HOCHMAN, PRESBYTERIAN ST. JOSEPH, SEATTLE: In certain cases, it's reagents with some of the chemicals that are used and even in certain cases, it's just the availability of the appropriate swab in order to take the sample.


GRIFFIN(voice over): It's the same story at New York Presbyterian Hospital.


DR. YOKO FURUYA, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF INFECTION PREVENTION & CONTROL, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN: There do continue to be some challenges around expanding the testing significantly at this point.


GRIFFIN(voice over): And at the University of Nebraska's testing lab.


DR. MARK RUPP, INFECTION CONTROL CHIEF, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER: We're in the situation now where we actually don't have the reagents to do the extraction from the samples so that we can run the test.


GRIFFIN(voice over): Health officials in multiple states tell CNN, they do not have enough tests for people who need them, because of a shortage. In Minnesota, the state health agency is limiting testing to only the highest priority specimens due to a national shortage of COVID-19 laboratory testing materials.

The Ohio Department of Health told CNN they're only testing our most vulnerable patients due to a global shortage of supplies.

And in West Virginia, the state health officer says she had to scrape together supplies from flu tests.


SLEMP: There are all kinds of things in the chain of testing. There are swabs, there's extraction things, et cetera, et cetera. There are shortages on many pieces of it.


GRIFFIN(voice over): West Virginia still has a critically low number of tests. Military veteran Kenneth Hawthorne says he's been to the emergency room three times in the past two weeks, sick with a cough, fever, but tested negative for flu. He says he cannot get tested for COVID-19.


KENNETH HAWTHORNE, FALLING WATERS, WV: They keep telling me that my wife and I were at low risk, so we weren't priority to take the test.


GRIFFIN(voice over): A major test maker, Roche Diagnostics corporation tell CNN demand for its test is greater than our ability to supply it.


GRIFFIN: How did this happen?

HOCHMAN: Well, I think we need to rethink how we're going to deal with an epidemic or pandemic in this case. The minute there was an outbreak in China several months ago, that should have started a whole sequence of events going. Now, as everyone would say, that's the history, but what are we going to do now?


GRIFFIN(voice over): Industries are responding, ramping up production. And both LabCorp and Quest tell CNN they are greatly increasing the number of tests they can process per day. But in the meantime, the CEO of the Association of Public Health Laboratories calls the situation a huge problem.

"I'm really concerned that we are not going to have the capabilities to test those who really need and should get a test."


GRIFFIN: And Erin, the Food and Drug Administration told CNN it's well aware of these shortages. It's trying to provide information on alternative sources of reagents of the swabs, of the other things they need.


But one expert told me this is analogous to the exact thing that happened with toilet paper. Only this is labs chasing dwindling supplies and hoping the manufacturers can just fill the void and catch up soon. Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Drew, thank you very much.

And I want to go to our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

So, Sanjay, the administration is talking about ramping up the number of tests. They said they'd be at 5 million this week. And then you have what Drew was seeing firsthand, which fits this issue of whether it's a test issue or reagent issue or a dropper issue, where are we?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, even the swabs, right, Erin, I mean, the things that are in the kits, in some places, they're running low on those. I mean, Drew is absolutely right. I mean, I think when people hear tests, they think it's like one thing and there's all these various supplies that are necessary for it actually to translate into something useful for the patient. Look, Erin, I mean, it can sound like a broken record after a while I

keep saying this, but we've known about this for weeks. I mean, other countries have been testing way ahead of us and part of the reason they could get there was that they actually planned and got all of these various components of the test ready to go.

Our first test that we sent out more widely was a flawed test here in the United States and we're still playing catch up here.

BURNETT: So Deborah Birx on the President's team says 10s of thousands of tests can be run each day. Now, if that is the case, is that where we need to be?

GUPTA: Yes. I think so. I mean, given that we're behind, one could argue that we need to be doing more. I mean, I think there was 8,200 run in a single day, day before yesterday, which was getting us to that point. I mean, that sort of outrun the numbers of what South Korea was doing, 10,000 a day, but there's a lot of people out there.

And one thing I want to make clear is that it doesn't still mean everybody needs to get a test. Still people, especially when we have a shortage of tests, people who have symptoms and have some sort of risk factor, who either came from a place where it was circulating, came in contact with somebody who's known to have the virus. Ultimately, I think, they're going to start doing more surveillance to really get a better idea of just how widespread this is.

BURNETT: So today President Trump was asked about certain people are getting tested and it seems much more easily, so professional athletes among them. I mean, we're seeing basketball players testing positive asymptomatically, which means clearly they didn't have any symptoms. Just the definition of the word.

And here's what the President said when he was asked about that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are non-symptomatic professional athletes getting tests while others are waiting in line and can't get them? Do the well-connected go to the front of the line?

TRUMP: Well, you'd have to ask them that question. I mean, I've read ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should that happen?

TRUMP: No, I wouldn't say so, but perhaps that's been the story of life. That does happen on occasion and I've noticed where some people have been tested fairly quickly.


BURNETT: So what is happening here? Is there a situation, Sanjay, where some people are able to get them because then I hear about doctors and hospitals who aren't even able to get them. And if anybody would know how, you would think it's a doctor and yet they're not able to get them.

GUPTA: Yes. No, look, Erin. That's a tough situation to explain. I mean, I understand that many of these professional sports teams have relationships with hospitals. They have clinics that help take care of them. Maybe they're getting the test through there.

But absolutely, it doesn't even sound like some of them have met the criteria, especially in a situation where we don't have enough tests. So I don't know how to explain that one. We've asked the same question and gotten similar answers.

I think what President Trump was alluding to is like it's not fair. What happened was not fair. I think that's a simple ...

BURNETT: Right. It sounded like he was saying that, yes.


BURNETT: So let me ask you a question, Sanjay. We understand that there's - this is how they anticipate it happening, there's going to be this wave and the Governor of New York says it'll be a tsunami. We're going to see how big it is. But then you're only going to still have a small percent of the population that's it's been exposed and we realized that globally.

GUPTA: That's right.

BURNETT: You're going to have the vast majority of people exposed over some timeframe. So it's wave of wave and as people think about whether life is going to be like this and whether that's sustainable, it raises the question of whether anything can be done before a vaccine.

Trump says today there's a big announcement coming from the FDA. We don't know what it is, but we're all reading on this. We do know there's a number of drugs being tested right now and treatments, and malaria drug and HIV drug.


BURNETT: One analyst said today, there's rumblings of an approval that they could be doing some of this stuff very quickly. Is anything out there, do you think, that possibly could change the entire way we're seeing this right now?

GUPTA: Well, I think it's one of two things that we're going to hear about from the FDA. It's either going to be more about the testing, which we've been talking a lot about or there are several trials that have been ongoing, including one that's been ongoing in China where they were starting to treat patients with these existing antivirals.

So these are therapeutics. Typically patients are just being treated for their symptoms right now. This would actually be an antiviral and that could be the other thing that the FDA is going to talk about. I don't know that we're going to hear that one's been approved, necessarily, tomorrow we might, but I think it's more of that, look, it's showing a lot of promise and we can get there quickly.

BURNETT: Right. Then, of course, it's a matter of how quickly could they even ramp up production of something.


GUPTA: That's right.

BURNETT: That still would have question marks around it.

All right. Sanjay, thank you so much.

And I'll make sure everyone knows because everyone is turning to you, Sanjay is hosting another CNN GLOBAL TOWN HALL tomorrow night. Don't miss coronavirus facts versus fears in partnership with Facebook tomorrow from 8 to 10. Eastern.

And next, two patients tell us what it is like to have coronavirus. One of them a minister with mild symptoms, another recovering who said it was like nothing she had ever experienced.

And another brutal day on Wall Street, should we be prepared for a depression? Not a recession, a depression. Man who was a key figure in the center of the 2008 financial crisis is OUTFRONT.



BURNETT: Tonight, the first member of Congress testing positive for Coronavirus, Republican Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart of Florida was in Washington for votes on Friday. He self-quarantined after the votes, develop symptoms the following night. This comes as the total number of U.S. cases surges to more than 8,500 across the country and that is a jump of more than 2,900 cases since this time last night. Of course, we should emphasize there's more testing out there.

OUTFRONT now, two people battling coronavirus Amy Driscoll is a 48- year-old mother who works for an insurance company in Ohio.


And Reverend Eric Elnes is a 56-year-old minister from Omaha, Nebraska and I appreciate both of you taking the time and ...

1930 ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: -- year-old mother who works for an insurance company in Ohio.


And Reverend Eric Elnes is a 56-year-old minister from Omaha, Nebraska.

And I appreciate both of you taking the time.

And I just want everyone to know -- having people to know your ages because, obviously, it's very relevant for how people understand this and what the risks are.

So, Amy, let me start with you. I understand this started for you, you woke up in the middle of the night, you had chest pains and a fever. Finally, you went to the hospital as your symptoms got worse, they did confirm you had coronavirus.

So how quickly did it happen that you went from that first symptom at 3:00 a.m. to needing to be hospitalized?

AMY DRISCOLL, MOM BATTLING CORONAVIRUS: So, it really started for me the afternoon of Wednesday at work. I started to feel feverish and not really, you know, just feeling like I was coming down with something and by the time I got home that night, probably, you know, 6:00 p.m., I had a fever of 99 and by the time I fell asleep and then woke up at 3:00 a.m., I was really in distress, it was really struggle.

And through a couple communications with my cousin, trying to get figured out what was going on, she was the nurse that I contacted, I was on -- I think on my way to the hospital by 4:30 and admitted by 6:00 a.m.

BURNETT: Wow, so that happened very quickly. So your progression was very fast. I mean, you're talking about, you know, just overnight.


BURNETT: So, Reverend, your experience was totally different. You came back from a trip to Spain last week, you had a minor cough. What were your symptoms like?

REV. ERIC ELNES, TESTED POSITIVE FOR CORONAVIRUS: Yes, I came back from the trip, I actually didn't have any symptom whatsoever for a full day after I got back. It wasn't until the next afternoon I noticed a slight cough I that I associate with what I always get during allergy season. So I didn't think anything of it and Spain wasn't on the hot list at the time.

But then the next morning, the cough hadn't gone away and I'd learned that Spain had been put on the hot list so I thought, well, you know, nobody's telling me to do so but I'm the minister of a large church, I should call somebody and they said, yes, you should be concerned. And they said, yes, you should be concerned. You've been abroad and you had one symptom.

But since the beginning, I've only had a slight cough, and that's it. When they took my test, they noticed a slightly elevated heartbeat but that's it. No symptoms whatsoever. I've never had more than that. In fact, the last few days, I haven't even had the cough.

BURNETT: I mean, it is an incredible how different this can be. Let me just ask you, Amy, you described obviously your experience so

very different and onset to hospitalization being so rapid, you described it as a battle inside your body. Tell us what you mean by that. What happened? How did it feel like?

DRISCOLL: So, I was just so sick right away, and it just felt like I just couldn't -- like I couldn't do anything that would make it better. And, you know, when I was inpatient in the hospital, they ran a whole bunch of tests and they did all the things and then they did services to try to make me comfortable.

But they were pretty honest in saying that there just really wasn't a whole lot they could do. So I had to battle out the fever and battle out how I felt and it was a lot of sleeping, waking, taking some fluids, going to the bathroom, going right back to sleep, all while hooked up to an IV and people, you know, checking on you every half hour or so.

BURNETT: Did you need a ventilator?

DRISCOLL: I was not. I was not on a ventilator. I did not need it.

BURNETT: Right, I just am asking because I know people are worried about that and how that may play out.

Reverend, you know, to your situation, though, as you point out, unless you had kind of pushed hard to get tests and followed the news, you wouldn't have ever sought any kind of medical attention for what you had. There's a new study that says 86 percent of people with coronavirus in China were asymptomatic, which means they're spreading it to people who could have gotten extremely sick, people like Amy or people who get a heck of a lot sicker than that.

If it weren't for you taking that initiative to kind of force the issue and get tested, I mean, just to state the obvious, right, you could have spread the virus even more widely, right? I mean, you've got a church.

ELNES: Well, not only a church, we're on the tri-faith commons, a church, a synagogue and a mosque have all co-located to a 35-acre commons.

I systematically infected members of three different Abrahamic faiths just through the day and a half I was in the office just through casual -- and I was doing social distancing and all that but still there were 30 people who got exposed to it and are now quarantined.

I can't even imagine now that people who are -- have been exposed to somebody like me, they didn't know they were, and now they're carrying the virus so they haven't even been abroad. They have just one symptom and they're carrying this, thinking they have an allergy.

BURNETT: You did the right thing. You did the right thing and you did the best you can, but I mean, just -- it's got to feel horrible, right? ELNES: Well, it -- regardless of what it feels like to me, it's

really clear that we need to have a national quarantine now. We needed to have it a week ago. We need to shut things down so people -- people are hurting here in the heartland, really hurting already.


And not just from the virus. They're out of work. They're going to financial devastation and just how long -- we need to shut things down right now so that people are only out a week for a matter of few weeks rather than few months or even years if this triggers a global depression.

BURNETT: Amy, you have a 14-year-old son. I know he's quarantined at home. His symptoms, I believe you have said, are very mild, some headaches.

What are the doctors telling you about him and what he should do?

DRISCOLL: So, they don't want to test him. They don't feel like it's necessary to test him, and Ohio has changed their regulations on who's getting tested now. And you know, he's under quarantine with me, essentially he'll be here as long as I am, and we're just going to kind of wait it out and see how it goes.

If he has any more severe symptoms or anything that really gets, you know, something serious, then they've given us numbers to contact and people that we're supposed to call and make sure that we're in contact with so they're aware and we can make decisions from there.

BURNETT: Well, I hope that his symptoms remain mild and that -- so good that you seem to truly be on the road to recovery. Thank you so much, Amy, and you as well, reverend. Thank you.

ELNES: Pleasure.

DRISCOLL: Thank you so much.

BURNETT: And next, the New York Stock Exchange making history and it is not a good history. The markets taking another massive beating today. Are we headed for unemployment numbers not seen since the Great Depression? That is what the treasury secretary put on the table today.

And the liquor business changing course to fulfill a desperate need, using its alcohol to make hand sanitizer.



BURNETT: Tonight, the Dow closing below 20,000 for the first time since 2017. The market sinking more than 1,300 points, nearly erasing all of the gains made under President Trump. The New York Stock Exchange announcing today that it is temporarily closing its trading floor on Monday after two people tested positive for coronavirus. Now trading will continue but it will only be done electronically.

OUTFRONT now, Minneapolis Fed President Neel Kashkari. He also oversaw the bailout program during the 2008 financial crisis.

Neil, while I'm glad to see your face again, I'm sorry it is under these circumstances. When you look at this, JPMorgan now forecasting the economy will shrink by the most we have ever seen since World War II. Do you think it's reasonable, from what you see, and you're looking across the entire center of this country, that we could see the worst economic pullback since the Great Depression?

NEEL KASHKARI, PRESIDENT, MINNEAPOLIS FEDERAL RESERVE: It's certainly possible and we just don't know right now. That's why financial markets are so volatile. Are we going to follow a path of South Korea and Japan, which seemed like they've done a pretty good job so far controlling the outbreak of the virus without completely shutting down their economies, or are we too late?

And we're going to follow Italy and effectively have to shut down the U.S. economy for an indefinite period of time. That -- how the virus progresses is really going to determine what the ultimate economic impact is and how many millions of Americans, I hate to say it, are going to lose their jobs. It unfortunately could be devastating like the financial crisis or potentially even worse.

BURNETT: So, you know, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin told Republican senators that if nothing is done the United States could see an unemployment rate of 20 percent. You look at that versus the workforce that we have and you're looking at, you know, 30-some odd million Americans losing their jobs. That would be twice as high as we saw in the middle of the Great Recession which you were in the middle of, and it would be the worst since the Great Depression. The unemployment peaked at 24.9 percent.

So, you know, 20 percent gets you 30 million Americans. 30 percent gets you 47 million Americans losing their jobs. I mean, are these -- are these realistic scenarios?

KASHKARI: If -- I agree with the treasury secretary. If Congress doesn't act. But I think the good news is, I'm really surprised and I'm happy to see it, both parties seem to be coming together and saying, let's put politics aside and put the country first.

And so, that's good news. I think that I going to work very quickly, but you know, speed is of the essence here. The reports around the country, including here in Minnesota, are that a lot of people are getting laid off right now, this week, tens of thousands of people in Minnesota and we are, you know, we're not California. We're a smaller state.

But this is happening nationwide. So, whatever Congress is going to do, the faster they can do it and the more aggressively they can do it, the more people we can help.

BURNETT: So, I want to read something that was in the "Wall Street Journal" from columnist Holman Jenkins today. He wrote: 83 percent of our economy will be suppressed to relieve pressure on the 17 percent represented by healthcare. This will have to last months not weeks. Will people put up with it once they realize they are still expected to get the virus? Wouldn't it make more sense to pour money into isolating the vulnerable rather than isolating everyone?

From where you sit, what's your take on that?

KASHKARI: You know, it's a -- these are very difficult tradeoffs. I think if we -- we've heard from a lot of health experts, including on your show, that if we all get sick at the same time, we will very quickly overwhelm our healthcare system and a lot of people will needlessly die.

And so, the question here is, if you stretch it out, the economic costs are higher and longer, that's absolutely true. But we don't -- we won't necessarily overwhelm the healthcare system and we will save lives. So, my gut is, I think we have to err on the side of saving lives, even if that means we are going to be sacrificing in other aspects of our life.

BURNETT: So, you oversaw the TARP, which, of course, was the relief program for the auto companies, the banks and the recovery from the financial crisis. On an emotional level, I know you never thought you'd go through something like that again. Is this worse?

KASHKARI: Well, for me personally, I'll tell you why it's not. Because I lived through the frontline of that '08 crisis and I saw that we got through it and I saw the American people come together, even though it was politically difficult, and we recovered.

So, I have this great confidence now inside that we, as a nation, will get through it, even though it will be very difficult for a lot of people, including loss of life. So, that gives me some inner confidence.

But let's remember, it took us ten years after the financial crisis for the labor market to recover. Ten-plus years. And so, all of these job losses, whatever Congress does, if they can intervene to try to keep people employed at their small businesses, at their restaurants and at the bars and at the coffee shops, keeping people employed is much better than setting them through the unemployment system.


BURNETT: Is there enough money, though? Because when you're looking at something with no end date, you can do that for a month or two months, but all of a sudden, you're looking at a year, 18 months, there's no money to do that. I mean, you're just going to print it out at the ether.

I mean, how do you look at that? There is a time period over which you could do that, it is not indefinite.

KASHKARI: It's not indefinite, you're right, and I don't think it would be a year or more. I mean, I think the -- you know, Angela Merkel said she thought 60 percent or 70 percent of Germans would ultimately get the virus. I think what we're talking about is spreading it out for our healthcare system to catch up.

And so, for a few months, could the U.S. government effectively float the U.S. economy? Sure. I mean, as much debt as we have, the U.S. government is still borrowing at very low rates so investors still have confidence in the government's ability to pay back the money that they're borrowing.

BURNETT: All right, and of course the United States has the dollar, which needless to say is one of the greatest things that we have.

Thank you very much. Good to talk to you, Neel Kashkari.

KASHKARI: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: And next, you know the scene. You've been there. The grocery store shelves empty and basic supplies are gone. What one Pennsylvania distillery is doing about that and Jeanne found two people who did not know how bad the global coronavirus pandemic had gotten. How is that possible? We'll tell you.



BURNETT: Tonight, it's a scene many of us are all too familiar with at this point, empty shelves in the store. It's basically a run on the basics and one item that, well, forget about it if you want it, is hand sanitizer.

Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT with a history of how one Pennsylvania distillery is doing its part to change that.


MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eight Oaks Distillers in Eastern Pennsylvania, like everywhere, was about to shut down and wait out the pandemic.

Then its owner, Chad Butters, husband to a cancer survivor, saw another need for the main ingredient in hand sanitizer, alcohol.

CHAD BUTTERS, FOUNDER, EIGHT OAKS FARM DISTILLERY: We're very good at making alcohol. That's our business.

MARQUEZ: The local cancer support group needed it, so did hospitals, emergency services, nearby towns and businesses that had to keep working.

BUTTERS: I don't think it's a time for panic or chaos, but it is a time for a sense of urgency and purpose.

MARQUEZ: So appalled at reports of hoarding and price gouging, Eight Oaks stops making vodka, gin and bourbon and cranked up the sanitizer. BUTTERS: We'll add ingredients like glycerin to make it more viscous

on your hands and a little bit of peroxide. That's the World Health Organization's recipe.

MARQUEZ: Just hours after hatching the plan, the first batch, only a few hundred bottles, the requests way more than they can fill.

They were in desperate need for even more bottles.

LYNN ELKO, DONATING THOUSANDS OF BOTTLES: This is bottle stock that we have leftover. We had a soap and lotion business.

MARQUEZ: Lynn Elko shut that business down a few years ago due to personal reasons. She heard about Eight Oaks Distillery and had just what they needed sitting in storage all for free.

(on camera): What does this say about what we have to do now?

ELKO: It says the last time I checked, we're not in this alone. We have to keep moving forward to keep everybody healthy and well.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Butters who retired from the Army in 2015 is now scaling up. The army chief warrant officer five turned entrepreneur expects to turn out 10,000 bottles a week. Not only is he keeping his 25 employees working, but if it turns out right, he'll be hiring.

(on camera): I'm sure you didn't think you'd be busier given what's happened?

BUTTERS: No, but we are 100 percent committed to providing this product out to the people that need it in the community. It's perfect.

MARQUEZ: One business, one community in rural Pennsylvania coming together in a time of need. Scrawled on a white board in their makeshift work space, their simple mission, get hand san sanitizer who those in need.


MARQUEZ: Now, Erin, if you think this story can't get any nicer or sweeter, it can. How much are they charging for the hand sanitizer? It's free. They're taking donations. They are pouring in those donations.

And there's other distillers, big and small, not only here in the U.S. but around the world who are getting on the trend. Getting off the booze and on to the hand sanitizer. Much needed -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Miguel, thank you.

MARQUEZ: You're welcome.

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, coronavirus shock. It's back to reality for a group of Americans who were literally off the grid.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a real instant switch from happiness to, like, confusion and kind of fear, and we all just kind of got quieter.




BURNETT: Tonight, a group of Americans were isolating themselves from coronavirus and they didn't even know it.

Here's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Imagine you are off in paradise.


MOOS: Rafting through the Grand Canyon, rafting, and after 25 days, your group is met on the river bank by a driver who picks up your gear and asks --

THOMAS: Have you had any contact with the outside world? Rolled his eyes and sighed.

MOOS: He then proceeds to give you the headlines.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The stocks plunging.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're fighting a war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to behave like you have the virus.

MOOS: Italy's in lockdown and the thing they really didn't understand, a toilet paper shortage?

KATE CONDINO, DIDN'T CHECK NEWS FOR 25 DAYS: It was a real instant switch from happiness to, like, confusion and kind of fear and we all just kind of got quieter.

MOOS: When Kate Condino and her boyfriend Mason Thomas left for the rafting trip, they considered coronavirus an inconvenience.

CONDINO: My biggest worry was getting sick before the trip.

MOOS: Now they're worried about Mason's mom with preexisting lung problems as the group returned to cell service, their phones lit up.

THOMAS: What's when I got a text from my mom saying, you need to call me immediately. The world is going crazy. Don't touch anybody.

MOOS: Mason who goes by the river rafting nickname One Chain, related to a comment posted to this "New York Times" story about their return. Is anyone else thinking about Charlton Heston and the Planet of the Apes?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Damn you all to hell.

MOOS: Even coronavirus isn't quite this apocalyptic.

Actor Jared Leto is having a similar back to civilization moment. He tweeted wow, 12 days ago I began a silent meditation in the desert. Walked out into a very different world. Mind blowing.

(on camera): Washing your hands a lot?

(voice-over): They already were to avoid spreading germs while camping.

(on camera): Don't touch your face.


MOOS (voice-over): Kate said as their trip ended.

CONDINO: I was excited to go home and hug my best friends.

MOOS: At least she's still hugging Mason. Compared to a rapidly changing world of masks and sanitizers, rapids and ignorance are bliss.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


MOOS: And thank you all so much for joining us. Don't forget you can watch OUTFRONT any time. You just have to go to CNN Go.

"AC360" with Anderson begins right now.