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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

U.S. Coronavirus Cases Surpass 24,000; Eighty Million Americans Ordered To Stay Home; Interview With Rep. Karen Bass (D-CA); Five Governors Issue Stay-At-Home Order To Slow Spread Of Coronavirus; Eighty-Million-Plus Americans Ordered To Stay Home; MA Gov. On Thurs: State Outbid By Federal Govt. While Attempting To Buy Medical Supplies; Economic Stimulus Package Could Top $2 Trillion. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 21, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED. I'm S.E. Cupp.

Here's tonight's headline. Is this real life?

In the midst of this worldwide health crisis, life as we know it has stopped. Entire states -- California, New York and Illinois to name a few are essentially locked down, accounting for more than a quarter of all economic output in the United States.

The Dow has wiped out over three years of stock market gains. The State Department has said do not travel abroad.

Canada has closed its borders. The U.S. and Mexico are working on a similar plan to restrict travel across that border. As of yesterday, 45 states have closed schools, affecting at least 53.7 million students.

Offices are shuttered and many Americans have been laid off. Economic forecasters predict the unemployment rate could rise to six percent by mid-2021. Three million jobs could be lost by summer.

Hospitals all over the country are overwhelmed and undersupplied. Doctors and nurses need life-saving PPE -- personal protective equipment like masks, gowns and gloves and cannot get them.

Many of us are healthy and doing everything we can to stay that way, including staying home. Some of us are sick and trying desperately to get better. In some cases, that means just trying to get tested for coronavirus. And yes, some are dying from this virus. You can see the number of lives lost on the right of your screen.

For the 330 million Americans dealing with the impact of all of these life-altering disruptions, it doesn't get any more real than this.

While everyone understands that science, research and doctors and medical experts will solve this problem in time, and they will, until then we are relying on our leaders, our mayors and governors, the President of the United States to do some very important things right now. Number one, keep us safe as best they can. Number two, give us

accurate information in a timely fashion. And number three, calm our fears.

Governor Cuomo in New York, Governor Newsom in California Governor DeWine in Ohio, my Governor in Connecticut, Ned Lamont, and hopefully your Governor wherever you live have taken two regular press briefings that have been informative, serious and sometimes even reassuring. We are thankful for them and we'll be talking later in the show about statewide responses to this crisis.

But at the Federal level, I hate to say, our leadership is missing the mark. In seeing this coming, in deploying resources, in quickly using the levers it has, in giving us accurate information, the Federal response has been lacking. And the President whether he agrees or not, is responsible for that.

From first insisting that coronavirus was Democrats new hoax to saying the virus would miraculously go away, to flipping to this was a pandemic and he always knew that. To blaming the Chinese and Obama even the media for his own failures, to contradicting his own experts and spouting misinformation. President Trump is failing the biggest test of his or any presidency.

This was the President yesterday when he was given the opportunity to do the most basic thing he can, which is reassure Americans in a time of crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I say that you're a terrible reporter. That's what I'd say. I think it's a very nasty question, and I think it's a very bad signal that you're putting out to the American people.

The American people are looking for answers, and they're looking for hope, and you're doing sensationalism and the same with NBC and Camcast. I don't call it Comcast, I call it Camcast. Let me just -- for whom you work?

Let me just tell you something. That's really bad reporting. And you want to get back to reporting instead of sensationalism. Let's see if it works. It might and it might not. I happen to feel good about it. But who knows? I've been right a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Also yesterday, what is becoming dangerously typical of Trump right now, over simplifying and over selling the truth --

[18:05:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no magic drug for Corona virus right now,

which you would agree, I guess on this issue --

TRUMP: Well, you know, I think we only disagree a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it possible -- sorry.

TRUMP: I disagree. Maybe and maybe not. Maybe there is, and maybe there isn't. We have to see. We are going to know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: And on Thursday, getting important facts wrong, saying the drug chloroquine was approved by the FDA to fight coronavirus. The FDA immediately corrected him saying in a statement, "There are no FDA approved therapeutics or drugs to treat, cure or prevent COVID-19."

Dr. Fauci took to the airwaves later that night to reinforce the message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There's no magic drug out there right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Here's the deal. This is so incredibly unfortunate. This is so incredibly dangerous. That we cannot trust what the President is saying is an awful, inexcusable tragedy.

And look, this is not about politics. Yes, I disagree with the President on many issues. I also agree with him on some. This isn't about liking or disliking the President. I want this President to succeed, I hope you do, too.

But right now, he is not and we need to be honest about that, because it will cost lives.

Leadership matters. We don't have to go back through the annals of history, back to FDR and World War II or JFK during the Cuban missile crisis. We can look at recent history for bipartisan examples of what leadership looks and sounds like.

In the days after 9/11, President Bush addressed the nation many times. Here he was in a joint address to Congress urging Americans not to take out their anger and fear at Muslims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Americans are asking, what is expected of us? I ask you to live your lives and hug your children.

I know many citizens have fears tonight and I ask you to be calm and resolute even in the face of a continuing threat. I asked you to uphold the values of America and remember why so many

have come here. We're going to fight for our principles and our first responsibility is to live by them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: And here was President Obama, not even a month into his first term telling Americans that the economic recession will be hard, but we will survive it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's the test facing the United States of America in this winter of our hardship, and it is our duty as leaders and citizens to stay true to that purpose in the weeks and months ahead.

After a day of speaking with and listening to the fundamentally decent men and women who call this nation home, I have full faith and confidence that we can do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: You can call me naive. You can send me e-mails, you can yell at me on Twitter, but I don't think it's too late for Trump. I hope he is able to muster the discipline and compassion and selflessness to do better, to be better. Our lives depend on it.

Joining me now Josh Dawsey, White House supporter from "The Washington Post," and former Minnesota Governor, Tim Pawlenty.

Governor, let me start with you.

You said this week that after this is over, you think there will be a new appreciation for clear, decisive and competent leadership? What do you want to see from the President right now?

TIM PAWLENTY (R-MN), FORMER GOVERNOR: Well, S.E., for some, he may not be Mr. Right, but he is Mr. Right Now and we need him for the good of the country, and for all of us to succeed.

So I give him credit, and I put hope in the fact that his more serious tone, his more deliberate presentation with a few exceptions, one of which you noted, is improving.

And that gives me some hope, but we need as a country for him to succeed and I'm sure hoping that he does. And there are some hopeful signs that he's taking this more seriously now.

CUPP: Yes. And Governor, you know, I want to be -- I want to be open minded and I want to be charitable, and I guess there is a perspective that his tone has changed. I'm not sure I agree with you, but let me grant you that you believe his tone has changed and then that is good.

What about the other stuff telling the truth, giving accurate information, giving information that is not contradicted immediately by his experts? Doesn't that bother you? And isn't that a problem?

PAWLENTY: Yes, the first principle of crisis management and leadership is always make sure you marshal the facts, understand them as best you can, even if it's unsettled, but make sure you present them decisively, clearly and confidently. And obviously that standard has not been met.

[18:05:11]

CUPP: Josh, we've learned now that as far back as 2011, multiple U.S. government studies supported by the National Institute of Health sounded the alarm that we'd run into a shortage of medical supplies during an eventual pandemic.

In 2017, a CDC simulation illustrated we were unprepared for a surge in ventilators and in "The Washington Post" investigation that you reported on just this January, our Intelligence Agencies issued warnings about the global danger of this very coronavirus. Are we getting a picture of a government spanning multiple administrations that was negligent?

JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you're getting a picture of a government that was certainly not prepared for this, a picture of a government where in January and February as we reported, Intelligence officials, public officials raised the alarm to say, the Chinese are not telling us the truth about how many cases are here.

This could be very ominous. This could be fast spreading, which could be a pandemic around the world and we should take it more seriously.

And as our reporting showed, the President and others downplayed that in the early days. Separately, you're seeing in places like New York and places across the country where there are very few medical supplies right now when you have a Coronavirus Taskforce at the White House that has been meeting every day and they're trying to figure out right now how to get more supplies to these different states and what to do.

But there's not a lot of answers and there's kind of scant resources and a burgeoning number of people who need them and need the help.

So on a lot of fronts, you have really difficult problems that the Federal government is now trying to solve and in some ways, folks are saying they could have been more prepared, if they would have been thinking about this months or years ago.

But it's easy to second guess and it's easy to have, you know, 20/20 vision and you know, there are some of the President's allies who will say, you know, he is presented with dozens of crises and dozens of problems every day. And he has to get up, manage and triage.

But as we reported last night, S.E., you know, at least half of some of the Intel briefings that were coming to the White House were about this and folks who are kind of sounding the alarm that this really needed to be taken seriously. CUPP: Governor Pawlenty like I said, we're going to be talking more

about state responses later in the show, but as a former governor, who would have been relying on the Federal government and the President at this time, I want you to tell me what you think Trump has gotten right. What has worked from a governor's vantage point?

PAWLENTY: Well, first of all, he has had, I think, good communications with the governors. I think he has also closed the border with China. He cites that regularly as one of his bold strikes, and I think that was helpful.

I do want to say this, S.E., in 2009, then Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano and I co-chaired a National Taskforce to help get the country ready for the H1N1 virus otherwise known as the bird flu, and I can tell you that over a decade ago, most of the gaps that are now causing us a problem were identified as we ramped up for that virus and they were never addressed by any administration to the level that they needed to be -- either party.

CUPP: Yes, I think in the coming weeks, months, years, we're going to look back at some mistakes and some things that we missed, and hopefully learn from some of those mistakes.

Josh, obviously, when we saw the President's attacks on the press this week, I'm sure like I did you reacted viscerally to those attacks. He did it multiple times in multiple different ways.

Today, he also attacked your paper, "The Washington Post" for a report you co-wrote. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think "The Washington Post" covers us very inaccurately, it covers me very inaccurately. I saw the story. I think it's a disgrace. But it's "The Washington Post" and I guess we have to live with it. It's a very -- it's a very inaccurate -- quiet, quiet.

It's a very inaccurate story.

It's so insulting when they write phony stories that they know are fake news because they're not insulting me, they are insulting everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: I just want your response, Josh.

DAWSEY: We will stand by our reporting. The President obviously has a right to his opinion he gave it, but if you notice here, there were no specific facts, nothing that he questioned in particular about our story.

He regularly criticizes the coverage of him, he said today. I mean he said earlier this week that "The Post" and "The Times" and "The Wall Street Journal," a number of the television outlets are very unfair to him and he clearly believes that. But we stand by the reporting that we did and the story. We talked to,

you know, multiple officials in the government on Capitol Hill, across the country, and the President, again, has a right to his opinion, but as I said, there was nothing particular that he pointed out that was false or erroneous.

CUPP: Governor, quickly, for all the attacks on the establishment and the expert class over the past decade or two, having experience and experts and people who know what they're doing in positions of power seems like a really good idea right now.

Do you think that there will be a backlash to the anti-establishment impulses on the left and the right after this? And that price experience and expertise more than say populist cults of personality?

[18:15:33]

PAWLENTY: Well, if this goes poorly, and the U.S. performs poorly relative to other nations, there's going to be a severe reaction, I think to all of this and what led up to it for obvious reasons.

And one thing that would come out of it and I sure hope we don't have the worst case, but if you look at somebody like Dr. Fauci, for example, I sure hope and I believe the American people will appreciate facts, science, credible display and distribution of information. You can't make good decisions without good information.

And anybody who tries to do it is, you know, running a very high risk gamble.

CUPP: Governor and Josh, thank you both so much for being here tonight. Appreciate it.

DAWSEY: Thank you for having me.

PAWLENTY: You bet.

CUPP: OK, over 80 million Americans, one in five of us have been ordered to stay at home. California led that charge. I'll speak to a lawmaker and then a doctor about the necessity of that order.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUPP: Over 80 million Americans have been given clear orders -- stay home. The governors of five states: California, New York, Illinois, New Jersey and Connecticut have directed residents to stay put and not venture out for anything other than essentials -- food, prescriptions, healthcare or a job that's critical. Maybe to walk your dog or take a mental health stroll.

California's Gavin Newsom, the Governor of the nation's most populous state was the first to issue this directive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We direct a statewide order for people to stay at home. That directive goes into force and effect this evening and we are confident -- we are confident that the people of the State of California will abide by.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: So what do these shutdowns mean for residents of these states? And is your state next?

Here to discuss this Congresswoman Karen Bass of California. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here. Your state was the first to take this extraordinary step. Do you think it was a necessary one?

REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA): Oh, yes, I absolutely think it was a necessary one. And I do believe that people are abiding by it.

You know, LA, there's always traffic no matter what hour and people are not on the streets. I think it's a very positive sign that people are cooperating.

CUPP: Well, and yes, the immediate necessity of this is clear, I think, to most of us. But in terms of the long term, are you thinking about the economic impact this will have on your state when businesses are shuttered? And people are out of work? And how are you balancing, right, the necessity of now with the concerns of the long term?

BASS: Well, you are absolutely right. I mean, one of the biggest concerns is we don't exactly know how long this will last. So that creates a tremendous amount of anxiety, but I can tell you that on the stimulus package that we're working on in Washington, D.C., we are looking at, especially workers who are often forgotten.

So when we close restaurants, we have the waitresses, we have the janitors, all of the people who are on the lower income side, we are very concerned about.

It'll be great if checks are given, but after you've spent your check, if you've been laid off your job, it's not really helpful. So we have to make sure we beef up unemployment insurance.

CUPP: Yes, and we're going to talk later in the show with an economist about how that money should best be spent to help us all out.

Some municipalities are adjusting their approaches to law enforcement. Philadelphia, for example, police are stopping low level arrests. In Maine and New York City, in California, as you know, some prisons have released prisoners to protect against virus spread inside those, you know, confined spaces.

To Americans who might be concerned about that and the impact on their safety. What do you say?

BASS: Well, first of all, I think that -- and we have submitted this -- I think that there should be testing in prisons and jails because you can imagine if there's an outbreak there, that has a huge impact, and then people do get out regardless of the crisis right now. And so we need to make sure that people are taking care of inside

while they're in custody.

Now, having said that, in Los Angeles, we are doing the same thing. The police aren't giving minor tickets, so people would run up fines, but also people are not being arrested as often. People are being released.

I think we need to look at our criminal justice system. Pregnant women, for example, I believe should be released. Juveniles should be released, unless, they have committed a violent crime.

So these are some of the proposals that we actually are putting in. I know, on behalf of the Congressional Black Caucus, some of these things are proposals that we want to see in the next stimulus package.

CUPP: I want to read a quote from a doctor in the Bay Area about the lack of supplies for medical professionals and first responders. When I came across it, it really hit me hard.

She says, "This is a crime, and there are people directly responsible for it. Blood will be on the hands of those who have sent healthcare workers to a war without armor, to fight battles brandishing pool noodles instead of swords."

I know you were, Congresswoman, a physician's assistant and a clinical instructor at USC School of Medicine.

BASS: That's right.

CUPP: I know doctors. I know doctors in the Bay Area. What do you make of this doctor's frustration?

BASS: Well, it hits me hard, especially having worked in a county hospital where our supplies were often very low. I feel her pain as having been a healthcare worker in the middle of the AIDS crisis when we really didn't understand where the virus was coming from, or how it was being transmitted.

So I know the fear that these healthcare workers must have, and I absolutely agree with her. It is a crime. It is unconscionable that we were not prepared when we knew that this was on the horizon and unfortunately, the administration didn't take it seriously, and still does not seem to be going full force.

[18:25:17]

BASS: I think we should mobilize the National Guard, the military. I remember what happened during the Ebola crisis when President Obama mobilized the entire world and he was able to really stop that crisis.

They had anticipated a million people would die. Now, one death is too many, but it was 11,000, not a million, but it's because the world was mobilized and that's what I think should have been done here.

CUPP: Yes. Congresswoman, thanks so much for your time. Stay safe. BASS: Thank.

CUPP: I'm going to continue this conversation with a medical professional, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D) NEW YORK: You're not Superman and you're not Superwoman. You can get this virus and you can transfer the virus and you can wind up hurting someone who you love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: That was New York Governor Andrew Cuomo earlier today explaining the critical importance of requiring New Yorkers to stay at home. As I mentioned, California, in addition to four other states have ordered residents to stay indoors, leaving only for bare essentials like food or medicine.

That's one in five Americans, believe me. I have a rambunctious five- year-old son, who can no longer go to school, hockey, the trampoline park or play dates. I know. It's not easy to give this freedom up and keep everyone home, but it is essential. How essential? Just look at these maps from The New York Times.

Developed by Columbia University researchers, they show three scenarios for how the virus could grow by July 1st based on no control measures, some control measures or severe control measures. Let me underscore these maps don't claim to show what will happen, merely what could happen based on available data.

The actions our leaders take now and the warnings we all heed as individuals will certainly determine the outcome. Let me bring in Dr. Leana Wen, Emergency Physician and former Baltimore Health Commissioner.

Dr. Wen, I'm sure you've seen the videos of Florida spring breakers partying in massive crowds or San Francisco residents out with friends. The mother in me wants to wring their necks, but I can't do that. Please explain to our viewers why this is such a bad idea.

DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: I know exactly what you mean as a mother myself too. This is a time that we all have to show collective selflessness, because we have a very small window of opportunity. I mean we are at a point where our hospital systems are already becoming overwhelmed.

We are days behind where Italy was, months behind where China was and we're soon going to have this just complete overwhelming of our health care system, the only opportunity we have is right now to try to reduce the rate of transmission in our communities. And that window is closing every single day and there's something that we can do, which is to stay at home.

CUPP: Yes.

WEN: And I know that sounds so basic. It sounds like what are we doing, how can we save the world by being on our couch and being indoors. But that's the single most important thing that we can do for our families, for everybody else.

CUPP: Let me ask, just today Vice President Pence said something that I found confusing, maybe others did too. He said 10s of millions of Americans are putting into practice 15 days to slow the spread. We are officially at six days into our 15 days. Dr. Wen, where does 15 days come from? It feels arbitrary to me. Do you think 15 days of isolation will be enough if that's what he's suggesting?

WEN: I don't know where 15 days comes from either. I mean, I guess it makes sense to take it day by day instead of making up a random number. But right now, if you're asking us to guess what the total number of days this new normal is going to be --

CUPP: Yes.

WEN: -- we have no idea. I mean, it's like asking when you can move into your house when your house is still burning down. I mean, we just really don't know. I think it does make sense to take things day by day, but recognizing that this is an extraordinary time, a time when all of us are making sacrifices.

But if we don't act now, we are going to look back and wonder how many 10s of thousands of deaths or more we could have prevented just by each of us taking some type of responsibility for ourselves and our families.

CUPP: One thing that's been giving me hope is that this virus has been contained in other parts of the world, South Korea, for example. What did they do that we could still learn from? There are stuff they probably did that we can't go back and do or undo, but what could we learn from places that have been able to sort of contain this?

WEN: It's a great question. And I do think it's important for us to navigate forwards and look at what we can do now and proactively. What South Korea did that was so important was early testing. Now, I know we've talked a lot about the necessity of tests, but there's a new wrinkle down, because now there are more tests not nearly enough, but there are more tests coming in.

But the limitation is that healthcare workers don't have their protective equipment in order to administer these tests.

CUPP: Right.

[18:34:59]

WEN: And so now we have the second problem on top of the first that now we have tests, but if healthcare workers are not protected, then we're also exposing them and now the limitation is that healthcare workers are saving these tests for those who are most at risk in order to conserve the masks and gowns that they need.

And it's one problem on top of another and I think we need to look at these other countries. What they did that was so important was to anticipate not just react to what has already happened, but look at what's coming down the pike two weeks, a month later. And we actually know, because we know what's already happened in China. We know what's happened in Italy and South Korea, we can predict.

The question is can we mobilize, can we adopt the wartime mentality that we need, because we are really at war against this virus.

CUPP: Dr. Wen, such good advice. I so appreciate your time and thank you and all of our health care workers who are on the frontlines working on this.

WEN: Thank you.

CUPP: In the absence of clear and consistent federal leadership, state and local officials are picking up the slack. Up next, I'll talk to a former Governor and U.S. Senator about that imbalance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:32]

CUPP: In The Red File tonight, laboratories of democracy. The tension between the state level response to the coronavirus crisis and the federal government's has put federalism in the spotlight. The President has careened between attacking state governors like Michigan's Gretchen Whitmer, Washington's Jay Inslee and New York's Andrew Cuomo and heaping praise on them and sometimes telling them outright to figure it out themselves. Here he was Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The federal government is not supposed to be out there buying vast amounts of items and then shipping. We're not a shipping clerk. The governors are supposed to be, as with testing, the governors are supposed to be doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Wednesday, changing his tune saying the relationships between the White House and the governors are pretty amazing.

My next guest is uniquely positioned to talk about the disconnect between the state and federal response since he was both a governor and a senator for the State of Indiana, Evan Bayh.

Governor, look, conservatives and liberals, Republicans and Democrats, we may disagree on whether the government should be big or small. Some problems are clearly better sorted out at the state and local level. But I think we can all agree that if there's a time for a robust federal government, it's now during a national health crisis. How do you see the balance ideally playing out? EVAN BAYH (D-IN), FORMER GOVERNOR: Well, S.E., you're right. As a

former governor, I have a healthy respect for the role that the states play being the so called laboratories of democracy.

CUPP: Yes.

BAYH: But in this case, it's a little different. Maybe it's a lot different. The President and others have likened this to a war and in many cases, it is a war and you would not conduct a response to an invasion of our country by a foreign power by letting the governors take charge.

CUPP: Right.

BAYH: You'd have a federal response coordinated from the top with clear lines of authority laid out, you'd give the governors some discretion in implementing that national plan and then hold them accountable for the kind of progress that needs to be made. But to just kind of delegate to 50 different states to kind of handle it as they see fit in this particular case, I think is not the right approach.

CUPP: Well, and states are reportedly getting outbid by the federal government for medical supplies. Look, I'm usually in favor of competition, but should the two be competing for resources right now or should there be, as you say, like a top down approach?

BAYH: Well, that's a perfect example of sort of a lack of coordination, sort of chaotic response that we've had intelligence recently where things seem to become a little more together. But no one knew who's in charge, no one knew who's responsible for getting the ventilators, getting the masks, doing all of the other things, the equipment that the medical personnel you just outlined need so that they can do the tests. All those sorts of things.

And so that's just a lack - that's why a response from the top with some flexibility for how to implement it at the state level, but a clear strategy and tactics for implementing that strategy, a timeline, every 24 hours, you assess how you're doing, you hold people accountable, you adjust as need to be. That's really what needs to happen here, because as your last guest, Dr. Wen, pointed out, the window is narrowing.

And if we're not going to be Italy, if we're not going to be Iran, if we're going to be a little more like South Korea, we've got to act and we got to act now and that means leadership from the top.

CUPP: Yes. And the complaints we're hearing from governors, they're bipartisan. They're on the right and the left. They're geographically diverse. They're on the East Coast, the West Coast, everyone in between. And that complain is they don't have what they need. Is some of that because we couldn't fully anticipate this or is it simply that we didn't anticipate this?

BAYH: Well, no one's ever going to be entirely prepared in all fairness for a once in 100 year event. But that's, again, another reason why the states are not very well positioned to plan for or to anticipate such a thing. That really is more in the realm of the federal government, the CDC, some parts of the intelligence, establishment, that sort of thing.

But we could have done much better over the last 10 years. We've had outbreaks of SARS and swine flu of other things. We should have done a little better stockpiling. The real problem we have here - and you put your finger on some really good issues here in this program, S.E., the role of federalism. The role of who's responsible and that sort of thing, fear versus liberty, security versus liberty.

These are major things we need to reconcile in our society in this particular case and this is, again, why leadership from the top is important.

[18:45:04]

By the time it was apparent that we needed to take drastic action, it was too late to take that kind of drastic action, the horses already run out of the barn. So look, there'll be plenty of time to - this is no time for scapegoating or finger pointing or Monday morning quarterbacking.

Could we have done better? Yes, of course, we could have done better. But it is in fairness a once in a hundred year event. And by definition, you're always going to be a little unprepared for that. It's how you react to that in the moment that matters.

CUPP: Former Governor and Senator Evan Bayh, I'm so glad you came on tonight. Thanks so much.

BAYH: Thank you, S.E. And by the way, big shout out to my wife who's in the hospital who let me come be with you tonight. I love you, sweetheart.

CUPP: Oh, well, get well soon and we appreciate your time. Thanks.

BAYH: Thank you.

CUPP: All right. The federal government has promised to get up to $1,200 dollars directly into the hands of Americans who need it but when, how and will it be enough? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:36]

CUPP: The U.S. government is taking a bipartisan approach to pass a stimulus package. It's the third so far to help Americans through the coronavirus pandemic. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell seems optimistic that a vote could come Monday. Sources tell CNN the price tag could top $2 trillion. Here's what the package could include.

Checks directly to Americans somewhere in the range of $1,200 dollars per person. The proposal also includes bailouts for the airline, hotel and traveling industries plus aid for small businesses. So how will it work and will it help?

With me to discuss is Jason Furman, former Chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers under President Obama and Harvard University Professor.

Look, Jason, we don't even fully know yet how coronavirus will impact our economy, but it's safe to say many Americans will be hurting. Is one time check for $1,000 to $1,200 per person going to help?

JASON FURMAN, FORMER CHAIR, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: I think it would help, but it's certainly not nearly enough. You need a comprehensive approach to something like this. Relief for families, tackling the virus and as much as possible preventing people from losing jobs.

CUPP: So there are some debate over who should get a check. One idea is to give everyone a check and then use the tax system to rest some of that back from people who don't need it. Another is to just give checks to people in certain tax brackets. What are your thoughts on the best implementation of giving out cash?

FURMAN: I think the most important thing is to do it fast. We'd love to be able to target and just get money to the people who are affected.

CUPP: Yes.

FURMAN: And there are some ways to do that like unemployment insurance, which is a really important thing to include in this, but that still leaves out a lot of people. And so you want to go as broadly as possible, I would have an income cut off and what I certainly wouldn't do is what was in the original Senate Republican bill, which is you get less money if your income is lower. I thought that was maybe no economic sense, let alone fairness.

CUPP: So for people who are feeling really strapped, there will be tough decisions, even impossible decisions about what to do with this money. Do they pay rent or buy diapers? Lose your car insurance or lose your heat? Should the government require landlords and car insurers and public utilities to forgive late payments so that this money can go even farther? I know some municipalities and states have required utility companies to forgive late payments.

FURMAN: Yes. I think now certainly if you have a regulated industry like utilities, you can do that with them. Now is not the time to be foreclosing on anyone in a lot of states and the federal government are halting that. It's a little bit complicated in our system to get a delay in people's mortgage payments, but to a degree that was possible, I think that would certainly help as well.

This is going to require the efforts of a lot but backstopping all of it really does need to be the federal government. It's the only entity right now capable of borrowing at the scale that is needed to get through what we're going through right now.

CUPP: We talked about unemployment. I think a lot of people would rather get their jobs back then have a one-time check. What's the best way to help businesses, small and large, hire again when it's safe to have people come back to work?

FURMAN: Yes. I mean, that's critical. First of all, it looks like 2 million people or so have already claimed unemployment insurance. There's a lot of people where this is already happening. We'd love to limit the job loss credit on incredibly concessional terms to small businesses and important part of that this bill has that. We'll have to see whether it's workable or not.

Now, for large businesses like the airlines hotels, I'd rather not bail out their shareholders, bail out their debt holders, but instead, make sure they have the money to continue through this. Put conditions on the money in terms of employment, but make sure that some of the costs are also being shared by the people that invested in those companies, not just the taxpayers and their workers.

CUPP: Before I let you go, I just saw a report today that Harvard University, your university, laid off some of its dining employees. I just want your thoughts on that.

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FURMAN: I'm obviously not involved in that decision.

CUPP: Of course, right.

FURMAN: I think every employer should be trying the hardest it can to keep people on through these tough times right now. We're going to have our students back, I expect them there in the fall. We'll need dining hall workers in the fall and the more we can all look out for each other right the better.

CUPP: Jason Furman, thanks so much for coming on tonight. I really appreciate it.

FURMAN: Thanks for having me.

CUPP: And thank you all at home for tuning in tonight. It's a privilege to speak with you in these times. There's so much fast breaking news during this coronavirus pandemic, so you can sit tight. Wolf will be here in the Situation Room all weekend with up to the minute coverage. That starts right now. THE SITUATION ROOM with Wolf Blitzer is up next.