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World Health Organization Said Coronavirus Pandemic Is "Accelerating;" Senate Standoff Over Coronavirus Stimulus; World Health Organization Warns Against Using "Untested Drugs." Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired March 23, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:33]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar. And this is CNN's special live coverage of the coronavirus pandemic, which the World Health Organization just said is now "accelerating."

The Senate is now voting on whether to move forward with a trillion dollar legislation that is supposed to bring major relief to the nation. Eleven states now and a handful of cities are under stay at home borders, West Virginia added to that list just moments ago.

And as many of us hunker down, the number of U.S. coronavirus cases has gone up drastically. We are now at 40,000 plus and if you just do the math at the right of your screen, at this point more than one out of 10 infections worldwide are American.

More than 480 people have died from the illness here in the U.S. and the rising numbers add even more to the urgency from hospitals that are running out of critical gear like masks, protective gear and ventilators.

The mayor of New York City, which now has 20,000 plus cases of coronavirus says supplies will likely run out next week. So will Congress act this afternoon?

The negotiations for the Stimulus Bill stalled over the weekend, but the leader of Senate Democrats says he is hopeful a deal will be reached today and in the meantime, Republicans are slamming them for the delay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We all know time is of the essence. The country is facing the twin crises in our healthcare system and in our economy.

That doesn't mean blindly accepting a Republican only bill -- that was the bill we were given -- lots of things we didn't even know about Saturday. That means working to make this bill better, better for our small businesses, better for our working families, better for our healthcare system.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Do we agree on everything? Of course not. But surely, in this time of extreme crisis for our country, when people are getting sick, when people are dying from the coronavirus, when we are facing unemployment rates which could go as high as 20 percent according to the Treasury Secretary, surely we ought to be able to pull together and work quickly to respond to the needs of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, many governors, Republican and Democratic are acting on their own to try to mitigate the explosion of cases and that includes in New York, where we find our Shimon Prokupecz. And Shimon, tell us what is happening there. Also you are there with Governor Cuomo.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes. So let me just go right to the governor, who just wrapped up a press conference. You're about to tour here. There's a lot of items here. Can you just kind of explain what's here? Are you satisfied with what you're seeing here so far?

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Well, this is going to work well for what it is, right? Because we're really battling against very large numbers. But what this is going to be is a temporary hospital. Actually, they call them the four separate temporary hospitals.

Each one has a capacity of about 250 people. They're about 40,000 square feet each. There'll be four in this convention center. You can hold about a thousand people, 320 medical staff are federally supplied with these hospital beds.

And this will be a pressure relief valve for the hospital system. So when a hospital becomes overwhelmed, people who need a lighter level of medical care can use this facility. It will be helpful. We still have a tremendous battle against the overcapacity.

We have about 53,000 hospital beds. We need about 110,000. So this is a thousand beds. It sounds like a lot, but when you put it in that scope, you see how much further we have to go.

PROKUPECZ: In the grand scheme of things, it's just a small part of what you really need. Do you have enough respirators here? Are you at a point where -- at least at this location where you feel you have enough respirators?

CUOMO: At this facility, yes, but the great need -- hospital beds, we can always scramble and find. Staff is a problem, but we could find staff. I think the real urgent need is going to be the medical equipment, specifically ventilators, I need 30,000 of them and you cannot find them.

[14:05:10]

CUOMO: And these people will have respiratory illnesses, acute respiratory illnesses, they need the ventilators. And that's why I keep urging the Federal government, use the Defense Procurement Act, where the President can order a company to actually produce the equipment that we need and do it quickly. PROKUPECZ: The thing -- the other thing is, in terms of the guidelines

and in terms of relaxing the guidelines, you know, a lot is being made. The President is tweeting about this. He is talking about this. Are you concerned about that?

CUOMO: Look, we have not even begun to see the influx of patients. This is still the relative quiet before the storm. We're seeing that number go up, but you're going to see it go up exponentially.

You haven't seen the hospitals overwhelmed yet. You will.

So all of these -- we're still on the up trajectory, and we haven't come close to the apex. So there is a false sense of calm. Now, let's handle the health crisis that comes first, right? Handle the health crisis and then we have to get to the economic crisis that we no doubt are creating in this situation and we can start to plan for that.

But don't get ahead of yourselves.

PROKUPECZ: Are you concerned that the President may be getting ahead of himself? That he may be offering a false sense of calm?

CUOMO: Well, I think the President is right that we have an economic problem. I have a group that's planning on an economic recovery, but that's a totally different function. Plan the economic recovery and how to do that and the best way to do that, but focus on this healthcare crisis, because the wave is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And the wave is going to crash on our healthcare system.

PROKUPECZ: Is there a concern that people are going to have a false sense like we're getting into basically what -- it's the second week of the stay at home? Do you -- are you concerned that there may be a false sense of calmness or relief here that people perhaps could be feeling?

I mean, you have the President tweeting and saying what he is saying. Other people -- are you concerned about that? And what's your message to people who feel that way?

CUOMO: Well, look, you always have to be worried about the calm before the storm, right? The weather forecaster says the storm is coming. You look out the window, everything looks calm. You say, well, they got it wrong, or they overreacted. And then you venture out, and then you find out they didn't get it wrong.

This is the calm before the storm. And I know people, well, I've been inside for two weeks, you know, that's enough. No, it's not enough. And it hasn't even started yet.

PROKUPECZ: Okay. Thank you, Governor so much.

CUOMO: Thank you.

PROKUPECZ: Appreciate it. So there you go, Brianna. The governor here now wrapping up his press conference here. He is now going to take a tour around this location. Look at the different items that are here. The National Guard is here. FEMA is here.

As we said earlier, there's all sorts of hospital equipment and supplies here now, and so that's it for here now. And we'll see. Thank you, Governor for joining us.

KEILAR: Thank you, Governor. Thank you, Shimon. And let's go now to the Capitol and Speaker Pelosi.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I am grateful to our Committee Chairs and members for their extraordinary leadership and work for America's workers and families.

The Senate Republican Bill put corporations first, but because of the insistence of Leader Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats, progress has been made.

We urge the Senate to move closer to the values and to take responsibility for Workers and Families Act. We must be bold and forward looking in our thinking. We need to be swift and evidence- based in our actions, and we must be prayerful.

God bless the families of those who've lost loved ones and those fighting this terrible illness now. God bless our nurses, doctors, first responders and men and women in uniform. God bless the men and women in our factories making medical supplies, cars and all of that, and those keeping our grocery shelves stocked with food.

God bless the scientists racing to find a cure. God bless all of you, and may God always bless America. Thank you. Thank you.

KEILAR: All right, let's go live now to Phil Mattingly. Phil, take us through the headlines there. We weren't able to hear all of what the Speaker said. What do we need to know?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what you're seeing right now, Brianna, there's actually two things going on at once. The Senate just voted once again to block the path forward on consideration of its emergency economic relief package, Democrats again voting to block that as negotiations continue behind closed doors.

And what Speaker Pelosi is introducing today, the House version of their economic relief package kind of goes in tandem with that.

What you're seeing right now is kind of a strategy that's going on, on Capitol Hill right now. Publicly you are seeing Democrats oppose moving forward in the Senate.

[14:10:06]

MATTINGLY: Democrats in the House presenting their own proposal that they'd say will bring relief to workers, relief to small businesses, paid sick leave and enhancement of unemployment benefits as the Senate continues to negotiate forward on their proposal.

Let me tell you what's actually happening behind the scenes. I think this is the most important thing right now. Over the course of the last several hours, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, and Eric Ueland, the top Legislative Affairs official at the White House have essentially been wearing out a path between the 70 yards, between the Senate Democratic leaders office and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's office as they attempt to find the path forward on this Senate proposal.

Brianna, to top line this for you right now, people that are involved with this proposal say the total cost at this point is right around $2 trillion. However, there are still significant holdups.

The Democrats and Republicans have been trying to work their way through over the course of the last two days. At the center of those holdups, I'm told is a $500 billion loan proposal, a loan guarantee proposal that's in the Republican Bill up to this point.

Democrats want more oversight of that proposal. They want less leeway for the Treasury Secretary to essentially decide who gets the money, how they get the money, who qualifies for that money. So that's one piece of this. Democrats right now, I'm told are pushing for perhaps an oversight board to oversee how that money is dispersed.

Democrats are also extremely concerned about how funding gets to states and localities.

There is money in the Republican package for states and localities. Democrats object to the structure in which that money would be doled out. So those are kind of two key points that are going on right now.

There's also a lot of political gamesmanship. And to be frank, a lot of frustration. You saw on the Senate floor over the course of the last couple of hours, Senate Republicans repeatedly come to the floor and lambaste Democrats for blocking what are procedural motions just to move forward and Brianna, you know, the Senate as well as anybody. These are just motions to continue forward on the bill.

These aren't votes on the actual bill itself and yet Democrats are utilizing these motions as leverage, basically at this point saying, Chuck Schumer, the Democratic Leader earlier today saying flatly, once we get an agreement, we will move extremely fast to get this done. They want an agreement today.

But until that agreement is reached, Democrats have made clear they are going to continue blocking votes on the procedural side of things, at least that's the public, what you're seeing. It is the behind closed doors, though, right now, that really matters in this very, very urgent moment in the Capitol.

KEILAR: The last time I saw that path being worn out between those two offices was during the financial crisis. It's really something stunning to see just how alarming it is as it goes down.

Can you just tell us a little bit more about why are Democrats worried about what -- I guess sort of the rules that would be in place for doling out this money to cities? Are they worried that it's going to be doled out unfairly? Are they

worried that there's not going to be bipartisan input to make sure that doesn't happen?

MATTINGLY: Yes, I think the structure -- not to get too into the weeds and again, with the caveat that things are fluid right now and things are moving. So I don't want to talk about things that maybe have already been resolved or they are never in the process of being resolved.

But keep in mind here, the size of states matters. The formula by which funding is doled out matters. It's extremely important to how members kind of work through this process.

Right now, the structure by which some of these things are doled out is very important as well. I think Democrats have made the point that there are significant budget shortfalls that are either almost about to hit some of these states or almost certainly hit these states in the future and they want to ensure that the states regardless are able to get the money over the course of this period of time as they address this urgent crisis.

I think the Republican point has been look, we have money in there for states and localities. But it's the structure that has been the biggest issue that I've been told up to this point.

And I think one of the issues that I've picked up over the course of the last three days is the proposal. The structured proposal that the Democrats put on the table, which was endorsed by the National Governors Association, is one that Republicans felt came late in the game. They felt like it was kind of over the top from their perspective on things.

Democrats, however, have not let this one go. It is one of the two key issues I'm told that they are holding out on because it means that much to them, I guess in this negotiation.

Look, to be blunt, Brianna, as you know well in these negotiations, there are a lot of extraneous items floating around kind of political items that people want in, policy items that don't necessarily have to do with the crisis that's going on right now that people are trying to slam into a bill that's this large.

Those aren't the big issues right now. The big issues right now are the loan guarantee fund for the largest distressed firms and the money for the states and local governments.

KEILAR: All right. Hey, Phil, thank you so much for walking us through that. Phil Mattingly from Capitol Hill and I want to bring in Julia Chatterley and also Richard Quest, CNN Business editor-at-large. You know, Julia, we expected this vote to fail.

But you know, part of this is about exerting pressure, and part of this has to do with the original timeline that was put in place by the Trump administration, a timeline that some folks said, why would you put a timeline in place because you signal to the markets if you can't make that tough timeline, they're really going to have trouble? How long can this keep going where there isn't something that Democrats or Republicans have agreed on?

[14:15:08]

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: It's a very interesting question, and you can ask, personally for President Trump, politically for President Trump and economically for this country. And there is an evolving mode of thought here that perhaps the number of lives that are trying to be saved here tackling this health crisis are less than those that are being put at peril due to the economic crisis, the sleep that we've put the U.S. economy in.

And more and more people are talking about this. I'll pull out what you've been talking about for the last hour and a half. The St. Louis Fed President said and suggested that we could see a 30 percent unemployment rate in this country in a worst case scenario.

I spoke to him early this morning, I said but what about if we add all the insurance, the stimulus from Congress, the measures that the Federal Reserve has put in and he wouldn't back away from that percentage.

Forty seven million people potentially being unemployed, when we've got 40 percent of U.S. households that can't cut a $500.00 check.

Brianna, if you compare those numbers to the number of lives that we're trying to save in terms of the health crisis here, it's a horrible conversation. It's a painful conversation. But I'm telling you, it's a conversation that's being had here.

KEILAR: Yes, needs to be had and Richard, I mean, we're looking at the markets, they're not loving what's going on for sure. How are they going to continue to react without a deal?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: More of the same and similar, and if there's no deal, then expect the worst.

Everybody is looking for direction and for leadership, that's what the markets want. They want to know that somebody is driving this thing forward and putting in place.

Now the ability of the U.S. Senate to get a deal, however, difficult and for whatever valid reasons is a huge negative. It reminds me, of course, back in the great financial crisis when the House rejected TARP, and the market fell sharply.

We're not quite at that stage yet. But if you look at what other countries have done, and the speed and seemingly ease with which they have put in place, far larger bailouts and with major provisions for ordinary workers, you start to see that the U.S. is lagging not leading, and the market is well aware of that.

KEILAR: I mean, yes, and that was a bank bailout. Right? Back in -- back during the financial crisis.

QUEST: Yes.

KEILAR: This ideally has so much more for workers who are going to be unemployed. We heard, Julia, from New York Governor Cuomo today and he was talking about this balancing act.

You've got the health risk versus the economic risk, I should say. That seems to be a calculation. You can both speak to this, but Julia first that's a calculation that we see folks making, but say, look at Governor Cuomo, look at President Trump.

People are making this calculation differently.

CHATTERLEY: You know, it's interesting. We saw those questions coming up in that press conference today. We saw the President being asked, and I think that's what created him sending that tweet out this morning that said, look, we'll review it after 15 days.

But you know, if you look at the battle that's going on right now in the Senate, and the fact that the Democrats are saying, how is the money ultimately that we're going to give you here be used? And a lot of that is focusing on the big corporations, and where I think the Democrats are getting it right, is that they're saying, look, there has to be limits on how that money is being used.

You are not going to buy your own stock back. We're going to give you this money, but you have to retain employees. We have to stop the unemployment rate rising in this country.

Where I think perhaps the Democrats are getting this wrong is that they're trying to control executive pay from what I'm hearing for the next 10 years.

We need to address these asymmetries between worker pay and executive pay. But my argument is, this is the wrong time. Right concept wrong time.

So, Brianna, the point here is -- and it keeps coming back to this. This economy desperately needs money, probably more than $2 trillion. But this deal needs to get done and petty politics shouldn't be coming into this.

KEILAR: Richard?

QUEST: You know, Brianna, on this question of the devil and the deep blue sea, between what the President tweeted this morning the cure versus the disease? The reality is, it's a Solomonic judgment that somebody has to make.

And if you bear in mind that at the moment, about 28 percent of the U.S. economy is locked down, New York, eight percent, California 14 percent and so on and so forth, about 28 percent is locked down with the possibility of going more.

There comes the point, and it is a legitimate point, but it's too early to be asking this. You look at Italy, you look at China where they've started to open things up again and found the number starting to rise again.

[14:20:07]

QUEST: So by all means raise the issue, but the issue -- but the timing will be what is relevant, and it's probably not now.

KEILAR: Yes. And we're not even what -- I had a medical expert on who said we're not out of the woods. We're not even into the woods yet. So I think we're going to have a big wakeup call coming in the next week or so.

Julia, Richard, thank you guys. And we have some more breaking news out of the U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is expected to announce new measures to stop the spread of coronavirus in the next hour.

Plus, Japan admits for the first time that the Olympics may have to be postponed.

And I'll speak to the owners of a pizzeria who took out a $50,000.00 loan to keep paying their employees during this crisis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:09]

KEILAR: Moments ago, the World Health Organization warned against the use of untested drugs to treat COVID-19, and this comes on the heels of six states taking new measures to stop the hoarding of chloroquine.

Now these states -- Idaho, Nevada, Texas, Ohio, Oklahoma, West Virginia -- they have all issued new rules to prevent doctors from over prescribing the drugs which the President last week touted as promising therapies to fight the coronavirus.

The F.D.A. released a statement afterward clarifying that the drugs are not approved for use against COVID-19.

I want to bring in Dr. Barbara Ferrer. She is the Director of the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health, and Doctor, tell us about these drugs. Tell us about how much your county has and if you're seeing any cases of hoarding there.

DR. BARBARA FERRER, DIRECTOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Thank you so much, Brianna, and thank you again for covering the story with such accuracy.

You know, I like what the F.D.A. said, you know, this is a drug that's being used in clinical trials, which means it's in a controlled setting, in order for us to actually have the evidence that says, when it's appropriate to use this.

I appreciate that so many of us are looking to protect ourselves and protect our families and when we hear there might be a therapeutic medicine, that could help us not be as sick or perhaps recover quicker, we do tend to run out and try to see if we can purchase it or get our doctors to give us a prescription for the just in case. But the F.D.A. is right. The best way for us to really support each

other is to really adhere to all the guidance. This is in a clinical study still, and that means people are trying to make sure that it really does work and they're trying to decide in which patients is it most helpful.

And so it doesn't really pay to go out and really stockpile or hoard or ask your doctor to give you a prescription if in fact, you don't need it now.

You know, our supply for chloroquine is really quite robust in the country, but the question is, it needs to be used when it's appropriate, and that's what the clinical trials are trying to establish.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about something that the President tweeted, he said, "We cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself. At the end of this 15-day period, we will make a decision as to which way we want to go."

So I mean, just to be clear, he first announced that there will be guidelines of folks not being in crowds of 10 people or more on March 16th, so 15 days from that is really the last of the month, which is next Tuesday. Does this -- does this thought in this tweet reflect the reality of what we're going to see in the next week or two?

FERRER: We've been really honest with everybody who lives in LA County about what we're expecting. We're expecting weeks of increased cases and we're asking people to practice pretty dramatic social distancing measures for the next few weeks.

I don't think we're going to see the significant drops that we want to see in just a couple of weeks, no other country has experienced that. I think every single thing we do now, using every tool in our toolkit is absolutely essential, so that we don't see the huge peak in the numbers of cases that totally can overwhelm our healthcare system.

But we're in this for the long haul, and I think it's helpful for people to know what that means. You know, LA County and the City of LA, we've all been working together. We've instituted fairly dramatic social distancing measures.

There are no crowds that are allowed anywhere of any number. Only essential workers are allowed to leave their homes, and that's to go to work and even in workplaces, we're asking for a lot of social distancing, because we know this is the right thing to do so that we keep people apart from each other as much as possible to avoid spread.

When you don't have a vaccine and you don't necessarily have approved medications for people who are sick. These are the most important steps that everyone could take, and it also allows everyone to help us slow the spread, every single person has a part to do.

KEILAR: What would it mean, if people -- if some of these guidelines were relaxed starting next Tuesday? What would that do to the cases of illness and death? FERRER: Well, I'm not sure what it would do in every single place in

the country. I know that we have health officer orders, which are in effect and stay in effect, at least through April 19th. That our schools are closed in LA County through until the beginning of May, and that we will be enforcing those orders with everyone for as long as we need to, to make sure that we in fact, do in fact, slowdown that curve, slow down the spread. Give our healthcare system the opportunity to take care of all those who are going to need care.

KEILAR: All right, Dr. Ferrer. Thank you so much.

[14:30:10]