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Cuomo Prime Time

Official: Public Health Advisers Now Drafting Options For "A Step Back" Toward Normalcy; Trump Wants Country Opened By Easter; Texas Lieutenant Governor: Seniors Are Willing To Die For The Economy. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired March 24, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --role model for his family and for his community. She called him everybody's "Papou," which is Greek for grandfather.

Like so many others who've suffered from this virus, George died alone in the hospital. His relatives were in quarantine and were unable to be by his side to say goodbye. George Possas was 93 years old.

The news continues. I want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. I'll see you tomorrow.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Anderson, thank you so much for helping us remember what's being lost in this. It's hard to hear. But those are members of the greatest generation. Thank you, brother, for telling their stories

I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.

This President says he wants to reopen the economy in a little over two weeks from now. That's almost the exact time that experts and projections show the worst crush of extreme cases hitting the financial capital of the country.

Does that make sense to you? Let's test it on all relevant bases. We'll bring in the Governor of the State with the second most cases. He has news that you're not going to like but you have to hear.

We have a doctor on the front-lines on the opposite coast, fighting in the State with the third most cases. What would this look like there?

And then the message behind the movement to reopen, which is literally shameful, a Republican lawmaker getting a huge platform to say to members of the greatest generation, "It's time to give again for the economy." That, my friends, is the disease talking, not the cure. That can't stand on our watch.

Together, as ever as one, we'll get through this. So, what do you say? Let's get after it.

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CUOMO: Breaking news tonight, a senior federal health official, involved in the Coronavirus response, tells CNN, public health professionals are now drafting options to allow people to take a step back into society in certain areas.

The source says this could be a "Rolling" response, with restrictions eased in various areas at different times. And all this comes with the President wanting churches packed by Easter Sunday.

Listen to him.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Easter, as our timeline, what a great timeline that would be.

There's tremendous hope, as we look forward, and we begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

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CUOMO: Is the light at the end of the tunnel the Pain Train? That's the question.

The Governor of New York, of course, my brother, is warning that a wave is going to break in about 14 days. He's not making it up. That's what his experts say. Here's him.

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GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): President said it's a war. It is a war. Well then act like it's a war.

What am I going to do with 400 ventilators when I need 30,000? You pick the 26,000 people who are going to die because you only sent 400 ventilators.

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CUOMO: Now, he's upset. I'm biased. He's my brother.

Let's get a fair opinion, another Governor in the Tri-state area, the Governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy, State with the second most cases.

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CUOMO: You gave people news. You know, I have a lot of family in New Jersey, grew up in - on Lake Hopatcong during the summers. You gave your constituents news today that they needed to know, and they didn't want to hear. What's the reality of case growth in your State?

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Good to be with you, Chris.

It's not good. We now have 3,675 positive cases, where I have to say we're not shocked by that.

We knew this was coming, in part, because we've opened up testing so aggressively. But the numbers are - are going straight up. And sadly, we announced 17 new deaths. We're a total now of 44 blessed souls, who have lost their lives in our State.

This is tough stuff. We're not - we're not there yet. So, we're going to stay the course with what we've started now for almost several months ago. We're - we're going to be hunkered down for a while.

CUOMO: You heard Andrew say his experts say two, three weeks is when he's going to be at full flush with hospitalization cases, testing the system's capacity. What do your experts tell you?

MURPHY: I'd say that's probably about right. Maybe we're going to come in a little bit behind that.

Your brother's doing a great job, by the way. And a lot of the response really is more powerful when we do it as a region. So, he, and Governor Lamont in Connecticut, Governor Wolf in Pennsylvania and I have done a lot together.

But I think we're at least two or three weeks away. We're a little bit behind the New York reality. But we're living the same - we're living the same reality.

CUOMO: So, speaking of reality, the President says, "Governor, I get that your fear - you're afraid. You're worried about it. But enough is enough." Easter means a lot to the President, he says, one of his favorite times, deep meaning, "We should be reopened then."

What will that mean in New Jersey?

MURPHY: Listen, I hope he's right. But I'd be lying to you, Chris, if I said that I - I don't see that. Our - you know, we're trying to make our decisions based on data, science, facts.

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And the facts tell us aggressive social distancing, do everything we can to club that curve down on the front-end, and expand as aggressively as we can with hospital beds, equipment, and healthcare workers, the true heroes here, on the healthcare side, and the combination of both will get you to a better place.

But that's, listen, I hope he's right. I would love nothing more than to be able to responsibly begin to open up things in a - in a few weeks. I just fear that we're not going to be there yet.

CUOMO: Well look, I mean, it's all about the perspective also that you hope he's right. But if come Easter, you're still accelerating cases, your hospitals are taking it on the chin, and he says, "Too bad, Murphy, time to reopen," do you ignore the directive?

MURPHY: Listen, we got one President, and that's the reality. He helped me get four field hospitals yesterday. We got another slug of personal protective equipment, where we're a fraction of what we need.

But the fact of the matter is I can't, as the Chief Executive of this State, if the numbers are still going up, and we still have more folks, sadly, who were passing on, the pain may be high, in terms of our lifestyle and our economy, I can't relent. We're going to have to stay the course no matter what.

CUOMO: And what if he starts coming after you? "Murphy is weak. Murphy wants to drown his own State. Murphy is trying to do this to hurt me, and he's hurting his own people. The numbers are OK there, I feel." What do you say?

MURPHY: Remember, we're in Jersey. So, we got a lot of - we got a lot of spine. Skin is very thick, lots of attitude. We'll - we'll stand tall and we'll try to reason based on the facts.

Listen, if the facts are going in the right direction, and no one wants that more than I do, that's a - that's one thing. But my fear, based on the meetings we're having constantly, would suggest that we're not going to be out of the woods by then.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope they're wrong. My fear is they're not. And if they're not, we have to stay the course, and I will do everything I can, in my power, to do just that.

CUOMO: Right. We just have to remember the other part of the aphorism, right? We hope someone's right. We prepare for the worst. We hope for the best.

MURPHY: Yes.

CUOMO: And the testing on the President is--

MURPHY: 100 percent.

CUOMO: --where's the preparation for the worst?

Where's the facts that outline this system? You're not seeing it in your State. My brother's not seeing it in New York. In California, the Governor is not seeing it there. So, the question becomes what is the basis for his optimism other than belief in the Easter Bunny?

And now, they're saying, in New York, the quarantine that are you worried that you're next that they say "Hey look, most of us are OK. It's those East Coasters and those West Coasters, you know."

MURPHY: Yes.

CUOMO: "Those New Yorkers, anywhere they go, they should quarantine for 14 days."

And next, could it be you? "Those New Jersey people, out there in the East, those Northeasterners, they've got to be quarantined if they come around the rest of us." Are you worried about the message?

MURPHY: Listen, we are in so many respects, I mentioned the region, in so many respects we're locked in this together, New Jersey and New York and our neighbors as well, but particularly the two of us.

My view is we keep our head down. We continue to base our decisions based on the facts, on science, on the professionals, who give us this input, and based on everything we see, cracking the back of that curve through aggressive social distancing.

We started meeting on this in January, so we've been trying to stay out ahead of this for months now. We just locked it down even further, over the weekend.

We got to - we got to let some days pass here to see how that's impacting the - the healthcare reality. But we've got to continue to do that, and we got our heads down focused on that.

And please God, I can't wait for that - that curve to crest, and start to go the other direction, where we can responsibly start to put our toe back on the water, I'll - I'll be all in for that.

But we can't fire that bullet too early. I fear that the backlash, the price we'll pay, will be overwhelming if we misfire then.

CUOMO: Right. I had somebody say to me, a priest, who's a friend of mine, today, "Yes, Easter is rebirth and renewal. But it came after The Passion of the Christ. It came after the pain."

MURPHY: Yes.

CUOMO: And the pain is coming here as well, and you can't get away from the pain, just by creating a false start for rebirth and renewal. Doesn't work that way.

Now, your State came into sharp focus early on as kind of the face of the pain, one family, the Fuscos, so many, four of them taken by this.

MURPHY: Yes.

CUOMO: A bunch of them testing positive. They don't know if it's something about their family or something specific to their community.

You know, your Office jumped on it when you heard about it. You got them testing. You got attention. How much did that throw you that one family could be affected that way, what was the lesson in that for you?

MURPHY: First of all, it threw us all in a big way. I mean, God bless them, multiple mortalities in one family.

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And Chris, you know well. You - you yourself were helpful, and we thank you for that. But they had gathered for a family get-together several - I think only three Sundays ago. And there was one index person in that group, in that family that was

connected to the first death we had in New Jersey, and they're all they had been connected through the Standardbred horse reality.

But it sent shockwaves. God bless them. We've - we had been successful in getting them their tests. But they're reeling.

And it's - it was a real shot across the proverbial bow that this virus, which so many people, for too long, thought was abstract, was real. It was hitting right here in my County, in Monmouth County, in multiple deaths in one family that - that shook a lot of people, no question about it.

CUOMO: Last question. Governor, what do you need most right now that you cannot provide yourself?

MURPHY: So, I would say, Chris, three things. And I want to thank the President and his Administration.

We need hospital beds. So, we've got four field hospitals getting erected by the - by FEMA and the Army Corps, will - that will allow us to displace currently cared-for individuals, non-COVID, into those hospitals to free up critical care beds. We're going to have to open up closed wings and closed hospitals. That's on us.

Secondly, we need more personal protective equipment. We have a fraction of what we need. Our healthcare workers are at the point of attack, and we need a lot more to protect them, and to allow them to care.

And thirdly, we're aggressively trying to expand the - the pool of healthcare workers.

One last ask out of the federal government, please God, Congress passes, and the President signs a really big stimulus program with direct State aid, big Community Block Grants, unemployment insurance support, small businesses, hospital transit support. That will be a huge positive jolt not just in the healthcare but also in our economy.

CUOMO: Well Governor, thank you for joining us. I know how much you have on your plate right now.

The country is watching States like yours and New York because you are the Ghost of Coronavirus Future. I mean this is going to come to them in different ways. And hopefully, we'll learn, by what you guys are having to learn, the hard way, as you deal with your communities.

God bless, be well, and I hope to speak to you again soon. If there's anything that you need us to get out, we're a call away.

MURPHY: Thank you, Chris. That means a lot, thanks for having me.

CUOMO: All right, be well, Governor.

So, you know, again, a little bit of irony here. Those field hospitals, OK, the timing of when they'll get the equipment they need to deal with the crush, do you know what it lines up with? The exact same timing of when the President says it'll be time to reopen.

How does that work, logically, think about it. You'll be getting fully equipped for the worst of it at the same time that I think it's ready to reopen us. Does that make sense for Easter, like rebirth and renewal, or is it more renewed pain and renewed problems? That's the question.

We're going to ask Sanjay Gupta, what makes sense about this timing, what doesn't make sense, what about the quarantine, is this medical or is it political? He's got the best answers. That's why he's Chief Doctor.

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CUOMO: So, here is what we understand at the moment.

85 percent of new Coronavirus cases are happening either in Europe or right here. Now, that is from the WHO, the World Health Organization. If that's true, if this is the most robust site of the virus' growth, how are we just a couple of weeks from reopening?

Sanjay Gupta, obviously, working round the clock, I noticed Fauci, Birx, Azar, nobody, with any kind of public policy in the health area, seconded the President on this. Where is two weeks coming from?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well I mean, you know, the - the original thing, as you know Chris, was the 15-day pause.

And - and then people were, you know, I think the - the impression was from public health officials, including Fauci, at that point, we reevaluate. But the reevaluation very much felt like "Look, we may have to get more strict at that time."

I think what happened since then was that the, you know, this - this idea of Easter, which is about 3.5 weeks, just over 3.5 weeks, has sort of come up.

And what Fauci says and, you know, he's pretty masterful at this, he's saying, "Look, we will look at the data. We're taking this on a day- by-day basis. And we'll look at the data." But Chris, I think, to your point, we know that numbers are going to get worse. We know that the numbers that we're seeing now are reflective of the situation 10 to 14 days ago because that's how long it takes for the - the testing to sort of catch up.

What's been happening over the last 10 to 14 days, I mean we know the virus has been spreading. That's pretty clear. So, the numbers are going to get worse.

I don't know how you would reconcile an increase in numbers, not only in terms of the actual size of numbers, but the pace at which they're growing, and be able to say, "OK, now it's time to dial it back."

You know, I don't think any public health official would agree with that. And what - so what they say instead is "Look, we'll keep following the data and see where it leads."

CUOMO: I mean, look, I think it's pretty clear, based on everybody I've talked to, around the President that this is about him. He does not like the situation he's in. He's blaming the experts.

He doesn't like the advice he's gotten. He thinks he should have stuck to his own gut about just telling people that this will go away and eventually the numbers will resolve, and he needs the economy to win.

I don't think there's any reason for me to have to hide from that reality. You deal with the medical evidence of it. Me, talking to the political sources, I don't see anybody supporting him with any kind of fact.

And then you have to reconcile it with him saying that "If you're from New York, you should be quarantined, if you go anywhere else." Well if it's that urgent--

GUPTA: Yes.

CUOMO: --that you need to quarantine an entire State from the rest of the country, that's also the financial capital, how are you ready to reopen?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean there's - there's a cognitive dissonance here, you know, for sure.

I mean people are hearing totally different things. And I think every time they hear something, it either makes them more panicked or it makes them say, "Hey look, this isn't a big deal after all."

You know, the reality is I think that the public health officials have, you know, they've been pretty consistent on this with regard to saying, "Hey, for the next 15 days originally, stay home as much as possible.

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This is how we break the chain of transmission. This is what social distancing is all about, what it can do, and then we'll reevaluate and, as possible, we get more stringent at that point."

I think they - you know, they've pointed to South Korea, and China, and said, "Hey look, there's evidence of success around the world." What we're describing here is not going to be in perpetuity.

CUOMO: Right.

GUPTA: But let's look at those places that had success, eight to 10 weeks sort of cycles of this.

CUOMO: Right.

GUPTA: So, there - there is sort of a timeframe there. It may not be exactly, you know, going to - going to fit the same timescale here in the United States, but at least you have some idea.

But this idea of two weeks, and then we're going to pull back, the virus grows, so we put more - more stringent measures on, virus comes back, then we - we let the foot off the gas again, it doesn't make sense.

That's what happened in Hong Kong, Chris. We've talked about this. They were doing really well. And I'm not criticizing Hong Kong because they did - they were doing really well. But as soon as they started to pull back on the mitigation measures, the numbers doubled--

CUOMO: Yes.

GUPTA: --in just a few days, Chris. That's what we - we're trying to avoid here.

CUOMO: And this 14-day number he's playing with now, they had taken that off the protocol. They're not even using that measurement anymore. And he's - now the President's using it out--

GUPTA: Yes.

CUOMO: --of political convenience apparently.

Let me ask you about something else. So this like no-name Lieutenant Governor, like Lieutenant Governors don't get a lot of attention in this country.

And then, the Lieutenant Governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, gets this big platform on state TV, over on Fox, to say "You know, the seniors, they're going to have to make a judgment, you know. I'm willing to go back to work. If I die, I die. I'll do it for the sake of the economy and the next generation."

What do you make of that being put out there? It's not being put out there by accident.

GUPTA: Well - well, look, I am - that's disappointing. I mean there's no two ways about it. I mean, you know this - this - we made this film called the "Unseen Enemy" and that's what this virus is. You don't - you don't see it until all of a sudden it's - it's all around you. I mean, you know, there's still a lot of people who are saying to themselves, "I don't get it. I don't know what the big deal is. I don't see anything. And my life is the same. All I'm being asked to do is stay home."

The problem is that it is - it is here. It is circulating, and we're about two week or so lag period here. Within the next two weeks, things are going to change dramatically in many places around the country. And, you know, you don't want to be sort of getting ready to deal with this at that point.

Trust me, you know, I've covered a lot of these types of pandemics. At that point, it is too late. There's just no way you could possibly keep up. So, you know, it's - it's true in medicine as it is in public health. People don't like to deal with issues until it's slapping them in the face.

And I - and I worry with this particular thing, and what we're hearing from Lieutenant Governor out of Texas, that they're going to put themselves in a position where they're just not going to have any - any sort of recourse in order to be able to react.

CUOMO: Sanjay Gupta, you are the man, you are the best of us. Thank you for keeping our heads in the game on this all-important story.

GUPTA: You got it, Chris.

CUOMO: And he's right to call it the "Invisible Enemy."

But you know what is all too visible? How we react to it, and this idea of opening back up, exactly when they say the cases are - are going to spike, you know it makes no sense.

What you don't know is who will talk sense to this President? Who will convince him that what is best for him in his mind may not square with reality? That is a troubling question.

So, let's try to do it a 100 different ways. Now let's go to the front-lines. Let's talk to somebody who's there. What will it look like in California if you open back up in two weeks? Do they see a light at the end of the tunnel or is that light the Pain Train? Next.

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CUOMO: All right, so look, this problem is everywhere in the country to different degrees. So, you go from the big cases, in New York, New Jersey, go across the country, California, Washington.

Big city in California, Los Angeles, the Mayor says tonight, they're about six days behind New York. Meaning what? That if it spikes in New York in two, three weeks that about six days after that, they will then be in the deepest of the problem, by region, by city, by state.

So, what would that look like if things were supposed to be relaxed in two weeks in California? Dr. Ryan McGarry is living the reality in Los Angeles, in the ER.

Doctor, welcome to PRIME TIME. God bless you and the people working by your side taking care of these cases. And I want you to know we know what you're doing, and we appreciate you.

DR. RYAN MCGARRY, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN, KECK MEDICINE OF USC, CO-CREATOR, "PANDEMIC" ON NETFLIX: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it. I had a shift earlier today. I want you to know I showered and deconned before cleaning up to come on the show.

CUOMO: I appreciate it. You look like somebody who would be working in Los Angeles in an Emergency Room. You're all good-looking out there.

Now, let me ask you this, good-looking doctor, ugly reality, if we relax restrictions, if there is a reopening of employment, and those dynamics, where you are right now, what do you think it will look like in your ER?

MCGARRY: Well I would look at it this way. You know, I've heard a lot of war analogies recently.

I use this analogy respectfully. My grandfather fought in World War II. I, you know, yet to be seen yet if my generation could do what they did. But, right now, we're being called the front-line, doctors and nurses.

And imagine, with today's rhetoric, coming out of Washington, and what you're hearing, being on the front-line in Germany, back there in World War II, or approaching Normandy, and finding out, "Oh, they might be calling off the Air Force."

And I say that with seriousness. You, the American public, your viewers tonight, all of you at home, are indeed our Air Force. You - you are protecting us by staying at home, and taking these directives from scientists and doctors seriously.

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If you don't stay home, and this gets worse, well we've lost part of our war here, and part of our - our support, and I think it's something that we're all really scared about.

CUOMO: The reality in the ER, what you're seeing, in terms of how people struggle, in the cases that require hospitalization, and what it is like life on a ventilator, and what it is for people who need them, and don't get them, what is that reality?

MCGARRY: Well, you know, we've heard a lot of medical terminology like respiratory failure, and intubation.

And - and, you know, in just like plain terms, what that means is if you've got a treadmill around, or the gym that you used to go to, you've seen one, put that thing up at an eight, as far as its inclined, OK? So now that's - that's like this. And then, turn up the speed as, as fast as you can run, and run for as long as you can.

Most of us, by two or three minutes, will be breathing 40, even 50 times a minute. And the reality is your body can't breathe that fast for that long. Eventually, you will become exhausted, and go into cardiac arrest.

And so, that is the kind of case that requires an emergent intubation. And that is the kind of power behind this virus. That's what it's doing to folks.

And so, that's obviously a very scary reality for both the patient and, of course, as the doctor and nurses and everybody involved in the team who needs to take care of that patient because that procedure has to be done within seconds.

I want to highlight one more thing about PPE. You've heard about shields, and masks, and all the things that we're being asked to - to wear. You know, it's - it's very challenging putting this stuff on correctly and taking it off correctly.

There was a study done some years ago that in peacetime, when there wasn't an outbreak, had a bunch of providers gown-up in his - in a space, and - and wear all the gear.

A substance that glows in the dark was sprayed on them. Then they were asked to take off all the stuff. And black lights go on, 100 percent of those doctors and nurses still had traces of the disease - of the glow, you know, glowing substance on them. So, this is - this is tough stuff for all of us.

CUOMO: And you're not going to have to be the source on this.

But I know that doctors where you work, and medical staff, in Los Angeles, in California, in New York, are being forced to reuse protective equipment because there's not enough, and that is unacceptable, and we are really risking you guys.

And once we start losing you guys, and doing the work, we're not going to have enough people to save people, and it's dire.

Last thing, if you could tell the President something about your reality, and what you want him to keep in mind, when he's making the judgment of what to do and when, what would you want him to know?

MCGARRY: I'd say - I'd say, look, there's a chance here. And I think we're all really desperate for it for real positive leadership. Think back to FDR, Eisenhower, great names in American leadership in wartime.

What we need on the front-line, and we really are your front-line team here, and I speak for physicians and nurses, I think who are in the ER and ICUs across the country, as best as I can that we really need encouragement, we need protection, and we need you to take this seriously.

And I know - I know that's something that you can do and we would really appreciate it.

CUOMO: Dr. Ryan McGarry, you're not just our hands. You're our heart and you're our best chance going forward. God bless, and know that we support you. We believe in you.

No matter what's said in politics, know that the American people know who's saving their lives, and we all owe you a debt of gratitude for what you've done, and what, unfortunately, we know you're going to be forced to do.

MCGARRY: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it.

CUOMO: Be safe, brother, and thank you.

MCGARRY: Thank you.

CUOMO: Doctors, they're going to be there. It's going to be bad. We have to think about them, and we have to think for them, in terms of what's best for them as well.

And how about the patients? We got to hear their stories, two ways, by the way, not just scaring you with "Look, how bad this is," but we never talk about all the people that recover from this.

Once in a while, I throw at an 80 percent, "80 percent will get over this, will be asymptomatic." But what about those cases?

A brave nurse, I introduced you to, early on, she took a turn for the worse after that. Now, she and some of her family have fought through. How are they doing now in Washington?

Karen Goheen, you'll remember, back with an update, next.

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CUOMO: I'll let you behind the curtain a little bit. We introduced you to somebody early on in this situation called Karen Goheen. She was a nurse in Washington. She was right in the epicenter.

Her mother was in that elder care center, where they had the outbreak in the beginning. She couldn't get to her mom. And then she found out she had Coronavirus. And she was home, and she was vital, and she was great.

Well after we talked to her, she took a turn for the worse, and she went into the hospital, and she was on a ventilator, and we were so worried, and we couldn't get her. And, you know, she meant so much in terms of our overcoming this.

And thank God, she came out of the hospital. She got back in touch with us, and I'm able to bring you back tonight. I hope it means nearly as much to Karen and to all of you, as it did to me, and the team, to see her face.

Karen Goheen, it is so good to have you back. You look great. I was so worried for you when you went in.

KAREN GOHEEN, TESTED POSITIVE FOR CORONAVIRUS, MOTHER LIVES IN NURSING HOME TIED TO CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK: Thank you.

CUOMO: So brave! Worried about your father who was sick, worried about your brother who was sick, you couldn't see your mother. How are you doing now?

GOHEEN: Yes. I'm doing a lot better. I'm still having a little bit of trouble catching my breath sometimes, but pretty close to a 100 percent.

CUOMO: And it got a little scary there being in the hospital.

GOHEEN: It was scary, yes.

CUOMO: You're used to it as a nurse. But what was the experience like as a patient?

GOHEEN: Well I have to just correct you something, Chris.

CUOMO: Go ahead.

GOHEEN: I didn't make it to a ventilator. I was on oxygen.

CUOMO: Oxygen, OK.

GOHEEN: But I didn't have to go on a ventilator, OK, so?

CUOMO: Oh, good, thank God, thank God.

[21:40:00] GOHEEN: But, you know, when you can't even stand up at your bedside, and get to, you know, the toilet at the side of the bed, without being short of breath, it was pretty scary.

CUOMO: Look, it's important for people to know that because a lot of people are still being really nonchalant about this.

GOHEEN: Yes.

CUOMO: And your father, how is he? He was in the hospital. He had it as well. How's he doing?

GOHEEN: Well he's - he's coming right along. He's pretty tired too. But he's stable. He's looking good. Yes, we're - we're really encouraged and really happy that we've--

CUOMO: Good.

GOHEEN: --so far all made it out.

CUOMO: Good. I know he's with you. I know you're being able to take care of him again. I know how much that means to you.

GOHEEN: Yes.

CUOMO: Now the mystery was your mom. You couldn't get information.

GOHEEN: Yes.

CUOMO: We were banging on the door of that place, trying to get them to open up and help you learn more. They tested your mom once, twice.

GOHEEN: Yes.

CUOMO: What did you figure out?

GOHEEN: Well she was tested once and was negative. And then, she was tested again, and that was positive, which made us really scared. But we went and visited her today. She looks really good. She's had no symptoms since she was tested positive.

CUOMO: Look at those two.

GOHEEN: So, she looks great. We're hoping to get her home maybe this next week, so that my mom and dad can be together again, and so they can hold hands, and keep each other company through whatever is to come next.

CUOMO: Oh Karen, you're just, you - you know, you just - you're opening up our hearts here, and it's just beautiful to see the family come through this together at this point, God willing, you know, by the grace, everything stays good going forward .

GOHEEN: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, I'd love to get your take on something. This message, Karen that "You know what? There're going to have to be sacrifices here. And some of the old people"--

GOHEEN: Yes.

CUOMO: --"may have to, you know, take it on the chin for the country, so that we can open the economy again, and get people back to work," it sounds so cruel to me, just so against what we're about.

And as someone who has just been fighting, and watching your parents fight, and you know how much life they have left, and what they mean to your family, what do you think of that kind of message?

GOHEEN: Well I think that message is wrong. I think the problem is, is that if you let all these people get sick, because we're not being careful, that's going to be really bad for the economy too. That's going to be really bad for our healthcare system.

It costs a lot to have a lot of people in the hospital. There is no dollar amount you can put on people's lives. You have to do everything you can to prevent this virus from spreading.

The economy will return. The economy will - will improve over time. We've seen it time and time and again. We're a strong country.

We have to pull together, care for each other. We would never get through this if we don't. And we can't sacrifice the lives of our wise elders for the economy, OK? I totally disagree with that idea.

CUOMO: I think that--

GOHEEN: We can get through this.

CUOMO: We will get through it. And we'll get through it because of the strength of people like you, and families like yours that stay together.

GOHEEN: Thank you. We have--

CUOMO: Weak and strong.

GOHEEN: We had a - we had a lot of people pouring for us, praying for us, letting us know that they were thinking about us, and they cared.

So, that's what we have to do as a country, we have to pull together the same way we did during World War II, to overcome all of that stuff. This is the same kind of battle. We can pull together and overcome it together.

But we have to work on it together. We have to care a lot about each other much more than money.

CUOMO: Karen?

GOHEEN: OK?

CUOMO: You make me, you know, you make me get all soft inside. I - you're hurting my - you're hurting my TV persona image right now.

We need to - an expression for your family, you have going hard and getting through something, but you got go hard and then you got Goheen. And you guys are just so tough, and you made it through together.

And your heart is filled with love, and you just want to help the people around you. You're just the best of us. And I'm so happy that even in this circumstance you came into our lives. It's so beautiful to get to know you.

GOHEEN: Thank you.

CUOMO: And see what you've done for yourself and your family, and what you're about. God bless you and the family, and I'm so happy you--

GOHEEN: Thank you.

CUOMO: --came through the worst of it.

GOHEEN: Thank you so much, Chris. My love to all of those people out there, if you get it, I'm praying for you. And all the nurses and doctors, I'm keeping you in my hearts. You are so special. We love you all.

CUOMO: And you're one of them. You're a nurse. Get well. Get back to work.

GOHEEN: Thank you.

CUOMO: And send my love to your parents

GOHEEN: OK. Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right.

GOHEEN: Nice talking with you.

CUOMO: Boy, is she tough? That - she gets me, that Karen, but it's also allergy season, so don't take it too much.

[21:45:00]

The cost of human life, as Karen said, how do you make a calculation about when is the right time to reduce the preparations and reduce our only defenses?

What do you make of a politician getting a huge platform to say what Karen Goheen just rejected on instinct alone that "Some of you people, the greatest generation, you're great, but you're not that great. Maybe it's time to go for the rest of us."

What do you think of that? I'll tell you what I think, next.

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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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TEXT: CLOSING ARGUMENT.

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CUOMO: President Trump sees Easter as the perfect time to reopen the economy and loosen restrictions. Listen to him.

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TRUMP: I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.

I think Easter Sunday, and you'll have packed churches all over our country, I think would be a beautiful time.

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[21:50:00]

CUOMO: Based on what? No expert backed him up on the Easter call, not one piece of science, not one projection.

Now, I'm not sure the President knows Easter's theme. It's rebirth and renewal. But assuming he does, why would he invite the opposite of rebirth and renewal?

Fact. More than 100 Americans died from Coronavirus today, more than 700 total. The virus is accelerating. So, with those as the facts, give me one reason it would be safe, or smart, or effective, to reopen during the period of most cases.

His answer.

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TRUMP: I don't want the cure to be worse than the problem itself, the problem being, obviously, the problem. And, you know, you can destroy a country this way, by closing it down.

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CUOMO: "The problem being obviously the problem." What is not obviously is that the cure is not a cure. It's arbitrary. He's a fan of "Money first, mortality second." False choice, you say, you can have both, protection and economy, you say.

Then why are fringe-righties saying all the sudden they'd rather die than kill the country? And why is this Lieutenant Governor from Texas, you have no reason to

know about, getting a prime time spot to say this to a silent State Newser?

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DAN PATRICK, (R) TEXAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren? And if that's the exchange, I'm all in.

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CUOMO: "Hmm! Kill my grandparents or my parents so that we can get the economy. Sounds pretty good!"

Don't make that call for my family.

I guess he's the guy who can answer that absurd question you'd get when you were a kid, "You have to pick one. Who are you going to kill? And you can't say neither," I guess he's the guy who answers that question.

The rest of us dismiss it. You know why? It's absurd. We don't put a price on people's life. My answer has always been "Well then I'd shoot me" because I'm not going to shift my burden onto the people I love.

And as a people we should face things together because that is the only damn thing that has ever gotten us anywhere, especially when we are far from any point of no return economically, the same cannot be said about how we can press our luck with this pandemic.

Then, who are we saying it to? The people who built this country, who saved the Free World, who carved the code of our character, our best examples of perseverance, the greatest generation, they're going to be sacrificed, for what? Fear over fact, the fear that Trump's efforts to be President will be hurt?

This is the worst job by him to divide us yet, us versus them, take it to an existential plane, who lives and who dies? And the only apparent basis is that it feels better to Trump and, let's be honest, not just to Trump, for Trump.

You wear your MAGA hats, right, Make America Great Again? Square this suggestion with that, the greatest generation, those we all talk about as our inspiration, and rightly so, we're going to tell them we care about you the least?

Let me tell you something about this pandemic. It's showing us warts and all, best and worst.

It is a proving ground for everything about us, what choices our leaders make, what choices we make, they will all reflect what we are made of, and we are better than this. We don't choose who dies. We get through it together as ever as one.

Amid all the pain, there are also bright lights. We have Ameri-CANs, and we're watching you, you Ameri-CAN'Ts. We got them both, next.

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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.

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[21:55:00]

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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.

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CUOMO: First, Ameri-CAN'Ts, holding a Coronavirus Party in Kentucky.

You know, a lot of young people tell me that they're being targeted unfairly. Then call these people out yourselves, OK? Now, one of the partiers has tested positive. This isn't about shaking a finger at you. Point it at yourself, care, please.

Now, these next two, they need a slap, there's no other way to say it. These two teenagers caught filming themselves coughing on produce at a Virginia grocery store. They were found to have just coughed on their sleeves. It was just a prank.

But you know what? It's not funny, not now. And the grocery store threw out hundreds of dollars' worth of produce just when people need it the most. Be better, OK?

Be an Ameri-CAN, like these, from Downtown Detroit's biggest landlord. They waived up to three months' rent, building expenses, and parking fees to its restaurant and retail tenants. The plan is going to help dozens of small businesses. Good for them. Those who can must do now.

How about this? Colorado Kindergarten teacher delivering educational packages to each of her 27 students along with air hugs and kisses at every door. No wonder we love teachers so much, right?

Ameri-CANs also turning to those little free libraries that you see, now they're turning them into little free pantries, stocking them with canned goods and other essentials for their neighbors. Beautiful!

And not all, who do good, are named, especially in this city. We got to remember the public transit workers. Three cheers for Mr. and Mrs. Bus driver, the train conductor. Why? They're working non-stop. They're scared. They don't have the right equipment.

Why? Because they know they have to get essential workers, especially healthcare heroes, to the front-lines. Beautiful! The worst calls us to be our best. And thank God, we're seeing it.

I know times are scary. I know choices get hard. I know the financial anxiety is real, but you can't let fear guide you. We are better when we are together. And if we stay there, we'll get through it.

Thank you for watching. CNN TONIGHT with D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT WITH DON LEMON: Right on the money at 10 o'clock.

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