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Cuomo Prime Time

Domino Effects Brought by COVID-19 Pandemic Felt in 50 States; More Elderly People Died from the Virus in Louisiana; Stimulus Relief Package Isn't Long-Term; Stimulus Plan of $2 Trillion Agreed on by White House and Senate; One-On-One with New York Archbishop Cardinal Timothy Dolan on Faith in Age of Coronavirus; Ameri-CANs and Ameri- CAN'Ts: Coronavirus Pandemic Heroes and Zeroes. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired March 26, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Hey, everybody. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to another hour of Prime Time.

I hope your head, I hope your heart, I you're OK. I hope you are doing well, and I hope you're doing the right thing. Because listen, we just got another smack in the face.

The United States now has the most coronavirus cases in the world surpassing China, if you believe China's reporting. Regardless.

More than 82,000 are sick here and nearly 1,200 are dead. It's astronomical. And it should be sounding an alarm in your head that no matter what you hear, even from the president we are nowhere near through this and if we don't start acting with more resolve in more places we are in for a long, painful war and our health care system just cannot sustain the strain that is bearing down on them, but not for long.

Let's check back in with one of the doctors who is on the frontlines treated the first coronavirus patient in the Seattle area. And let's get the reality. Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips. How are you doing, doc?

AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CHIEF CLINICAL OFFICER AND EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, PROVIDENCE ST. JOSEPH HEALTH: Doing well, Chris.

CUOMO: The idea -- you're a doctor, you're not a politician, but the idea that, you know, we could be over this pretty quickly. Every data point we seem to be receiving it says that the opposite is true. How is it looking from your neck of the woods in the northwest?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: So, in our neck of the woods it is definitely still going up. You know, the good news is the rate of escalation here in the northwest is slower than the rate of escalation in New York City right now. But it's because we started social distancing earlier.

And so exactly like you've been talking about we have been doing the things to limit the transmission. Our doubling rate out here is running at around six to seven days and in New York it's around two and a half to three days and that is because of the infect of stained apart from each minimizing the opportunities to pass this from one person to the next.

CUOMO: So, the panic inducing aspect of the statement is rate of acceleration. That means just slowing down the speed of which it's moving and doubling rate means what it sounds like doubling cases every week. Where do we see any idea of this turning into less cases on a weekly basis, like going from a 100 to 90? When might that happen?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: So, that is exactly what people are talking about when they talk about flattening the curve. Right? So that we have to actually get the transmission rate to less than one per person.

So, if you have an infected person if you get down to less than one person that you infect that we can actually break the back of this epidemic and that can happen through really effective social distancing. It can also happen like what they did in South Korea by testing people broadly, so much more broadly than we are doing right now in the U.S., testing people broadly and then isolating the people who have the germ very strictly so they can't pass it onto others.

CUOMO: And you know what, it's so instructive just in the definition. We obviously aren't doing the right thing. Because the metric is how many people so I infect when I have it. It should be none because I'm doing the right thing. God forbid, I get it, I do the right thing so nobody else gets infected.

So clearly, we just don't have the behavior and the culture where we need to be.

Now another big problem. PPE, that's going to be an acronym everybody is going to know, right, personal protective equipment. The healthcare workers have to have it or they are going to get the virus and they are going to fall off the frontlines and we're going to have the staff we need. We're already short staff. It's terrible.

I can lament it. I say it, I dramatize it. You do something about it. What are you doing to make sure that your brothers and sisters on the frontlines have the PPE to sustain them for the weeks and months to come?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, you are so 100 percent right, Chris. That sending a physician, a nurse, a person who's cleaning the room into that room without the ability to protect themselves would be like sending the soldier into battle without the tools that they need to keep safe, right?

[23:05:03]

And so, we can't do that. They are on the frontlines of the war against this virus. And so, as you well know because you helped us immensely last week, we put out a challenge to say we need -- we need 100 million masks. And we started ourselves, we say we're just going to sew them ourselves if we have to using medical green materials. But we need this for our front line.

You made that available to everybody in the U.S. and told everyone in the U.S. about it and then we got overwhelmed by the number of amazing Americans wanting to help. Because we have now --

CUOMO: Americans.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Americans. Every single American out there wanted to help us and then we started to say my gosh, we are answering so many e-mails and responding to so many opportunities it's taking away from our ability to care for patients.

We had -- we had fantastic, and by the way, amazing corporate partners as well that said we want to flip our production from our factory to building masks instead of building furniture. Nordstrom Tailors is one of them. Instead of sewing clothes, right now nobody is buying clothes, let's have our tailors sew masks.

So, we have corporate partners. But we were drowning in it. So, I'm actually really happy to say, because I think you started this. We called the American Hospital Association and said, hey, you guys, we can -- we can work locally but we really want you to help us make this be a national thing.

And so, now the American Hospital Association they are going to announce it tomorrow formally but you are getting the preview tonight. It's actually taking on the 100 million mask challenge to help all those makers, all those small businesses, everyone in the U.S. that wants to help us solve this that they can help us do that now through our 100 million mask challenge.

CUOMO: All right. So, first, put the web site up. People want to look at the doctor but they don't care -- they're tired of my face. Keep that up while we're talking.

So, doctor, two things. Why just masks? Why not the gowns and the shoes and the gloves and the visors and everything else that you guys need. And what about people giving money for this effort and maybe even volunteering to help handle the flow? Is that stuff all addressed on the web site?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: It is all addressed and it's all of the above.

CUOMO: All right.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: The challenge that we had initially was masks but absolutely it's going to be masks, and gowns, and gloves and ventilators and tubing and all kinds of things that we need to make sure that, you know, what's normal is at a predictable level but what we're building for is more like a tsunami. Right? That it all comes in at the same time and you need very different levels of PPE for that.

At the same time our production lines from overseas are disrupted. So, this is actually a great opportunity with this challenge to start manufacturing some of these things onshore. And so, for all of those people that are unemployed right now, well, guess what, we can actually change what they used to make into what we make today. So, it's a great opportunity for everybody.

CUOMO: Now, again, doctor, you are not a politician. I'm not going to put you in a political position. But I will remind the audience of this. The president has powers to make factories make things, all right. It was designed during World War II. He had said he was thinking about using it. He hasn't used it.

If he did use it, it would actually be a pro-business move because you've given them the startup capital. You know, right now they are they are doing it because they want to do and they are figuring out how to do it. It's a little different when you're told to do it. It will be interesting to see if that's where we wind up.

But here's what we know right now. Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, you are the best of us. You are literally healing people who are dealing with this, you're getting out the public service message and you're figuring out how to extend it to the other. Amy Compton-Phillips, although there's probably not too many people with that exact name who are doing the exact same thing all across the country. Doctor, let us know how we can help your efforts. You deserve the hand.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you so much. I so appreciate it. And thank you for everything you've done for this effort, Chris.

CUOMO: Be well. Stay healthy. Stay in touch.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. So now what's more proof that we got a long way to go here? The virus is moving. It's easy to blame it on New York. Right? It would be convenient. Those New Yorkers. New Jersey. Those Californians. You know. It's them on the coast. It's moving around. OK?

Louisiana. Why is it bursting there? Critical equipment is in short supply. Now the state is in line behind other states because they're a little late to the game. Thank God. Right? I mean, they didn't want to have as many cases as we did early on. But now they have to wait longer and they are in a bigger fight to get what they need.

We've got a doctor from the states' public health office. What's happening there, what can you do to help them? And what were needs to get out. All answers ahead.

[23:10:00]

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CUOMO: It's not just California, Washington, New York, New Jersey, it's moving around the country and that's what's going to happen. There's a new frontline. Where? Emerging in Louisiana, cases are spiking and a frighteningly familiar scenario which once again builds on the obvious. No place is immune.

Nursing homes once again hit the hardest. Why? So many vulnerable people there. Six of them, including this one where 11 people died as of Tuesday. I don't know what the number is now, but they are being monitored by the state as a coronavirus cluster site. Critical supplies now because Louisiana is behind these other states like New York and these big states that need so much. So, supplies are dwindling.

And no states have peaked yet. So, it's not like equipment is going to free up any time soon. This is a jam, OK?

So, let's bring in Dr. Alex Billioux, the assistant secretary for the state public health office. Doctor, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. I wish it were not under these circumstances. I'm saying that too much these days. But this is our reality.

[23:15:03]

First, the idea of the nursing homes. It's big here. This Lambeth House Retirement Community in New Orleans, we talked to a brother and sister whose mom is in there. They are trying to find out information about her. She has the virus. Two hundred sixty-eight people. What do you know about nursing homes and how you can get those situations under control?

ALEX BILLIOUX, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HEALTH, LOUISIANA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH'S OFFICE OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. Well, Chris, thanks for having me on. You know, it's a real challenge. Certainly, we saw that early on in Washington. And frankly, you know, the population that nursing homes serve or the populations that we know have the hardest time of coronavirus.

Those that are folks who are older than 65, folks who have underlying chronic conditions. And as all of us age we're more likely to be in those categories. And so, really, when you have a group of those vulnerable individuals living close together it really sets up a bad situation when the coronavirus shows up in that community.

As you noted, Lambeth House was one of the first clusters that we've identified here in New Orleans.

CUOMO: So, are you guys are you finding with your population and your governor getting to watch like, you know, the governor here in New York and other states. Do you think your population is going to snap too a little bit more quickly when you start slapping on restrictions and what kind of restrictions do you have and what kind of restrictions do you expect?

BILLIOUX: Yes. Well, we certainly hope so. I mean, I think that the governor and lots of officials across our administration have been very clear that unlike the disasters that we usually face here in Louisiana, natural disasters, hurricanes, floods, this is one where we as Louisianans have an actual chance to change the trajectory that we're on.

You know, right now, we are on the same growth trend as Italy, Spain and actually South Korea was before South Korea took the actions that they needed to, to flatten that curve to reduce the spread of the virus. And so, you know, early on the governor took proactive measures to

limit the crowd sizes really to talk about the measures we should all be doing covering our cough, washing our hands.

But last Sunday, he put in for a stay-at-home order. Really, encouraging, and frankly, directing Louisianans across the state, not just in New Orleans, but across the state to stay home not just for themselves, not just for their immediate family but for their neighbors.

And if there is one thing Louisiana -- Louisianans do very well it's taking care of our neighbors in a time of crisis.

CUOMO: Cajun culture is a well-known to anybody in my business. I've been in your state way too many times. But you do have a culture advantage. People there know how to hunker down. And they know how to do difficult things for an extended period.

But this is different, like you said. You know, we had Tony Fauci on the other night, Dr. Anthony Fauci. And he had concerns about how fast the state was moving. Let me play them for you so you can respond it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I have spoken to the political officials in New Orleans and in the State of Louisiana. They are now shutting things down in a vigorous way. It is likely that that should have been done a little bit sooner. I'm not blaming anyone on that but you get caught unawares because of the nature of this outbreak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What is it about this? So, there were the hurricane. You see the modeling. You see it moving. And in this thing because it's invisible and you don't have people walking around with the cases it's just hard to muster?

BILLIOUX: Well, and what I heard Dr. Fauci saying there was really it's not just Louisiana. If you go back three weeks, really most of us across the country weren't taking the kinds of steps that we're taking now because frankly, our testing --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: No way.

BILLIOUX: -- was still focused on people who were traveling from other countries. Really, you know, right up until the point that we had our first case and even with our first case, we were looking mostly to people coming back from China, Iran, Italy, South Korea. What we didn't know is coronavirus was spreading through our community, through New Orleans and now we know across many communities in the country.

And so, I think if we had more testing available earlier, if we had had better information, I think all of us would have been testing earlier trying to isolate like we now know we need to be doing.

CUOMO: You have to get the testing ready for the next wave and you have to get it up as quickly as you can to deal with the back end of this wave. You have neighboring states that don't have the precautionary measures that you have right now. That's an issue. And it's going to be hard to source equipment. What are you finding on the last point?

BILLIOUX: Yes. I mean, it's very tough. You know, we made the point. The governor made the point earlier this week. You know, in a disaster, again, we're used to those. We can look to our neighbors. Because usually a hurricane doesn't hit the entire, you know, gulf coast or even the entire country.

And the federal government and our neighboring states are able to muster and give us supplies. Right now, you know, we may be and we are, you know, the second or third highest rate of infections per capita but the virus has spread all over this country.

[23:20:00]

And so, the PPE that you just heard of in Washington and certainly I know your brother has been talking about in New York, we need that desperately down here too. And frankly, if our neighbors don't need it as desperately as us today, they will a week from now. And that's challenging.

We're not only competing with other states, Chris, we're competing with other hospitals in our state, and you know, trying to get to the first supplier get to the next supplier just a little bit ahead of the next one. It's a real challenge that I think would really benefit from more national organization.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And also, again, it's raising the specter. This isn't about politics, it's about practically. We need our factories to be making these things. The supply chain isn't it done. People all over the world are dealing with this to different degrees.

We have factories that are close now. How many of them will be opened up to deal with situations like yours? Dr. Billouix, we are here to help. You are a beautiful people and culture in Louisiana. Anybody who's been there has enjoyed it. You need our help now. We're here for you.

BILLIOUX: We do. We really appreciate that. Thank you, Chris. Thanks for this opportunity to share our need and our story.

CUOMO: Absolutely. We'll be here all throughout. And hopefully I'll see you down there soon with a story of your recovery.

All right. Coronavirus. It affects everything. And that is to be expected. The job market. More than three million Americans filed for unemployment last week. How can you be surprised? Well, it is the most ever.

Now what are we doing about it? This stimulus bill and the unemployment aid is dense. OK. I've been going through it all day. I've got one of our best lines on this. Austan Goolsbee, he understands why these bills are formed the way they are and what it means. I'm going to pepper him with some questions that you guys have been bringing to me. We got good answers for you, next.

[23:25:00]

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CUOMO: All right. We are just hours away from the House taking up the Senate's historic $2 trillion relief package. Unemployment claims spiked to 3.28 million last week.

Let's put that in context, it's the most in history. A massive surge from the nearly 300,000 jobless claims filed the week before. It's called a 10x jump. Ten times. Not good. Just how bad, just how long on the economic side.

Let's get perspective from Austan Goolsbee, former chief economic to then President Obama. It's good to see you.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Great to see you again.

CUOMO: So how long? I mean, how do you even come close to answering that question when you don't know how long the economy stays like this other than the suggestion that it is not going to open up in two weeks like the president says.

GOOLSBEE: Yes. Look, like I say, the number one rule of virus economics is the best thing of the economics is to slow the spread of the virus. And until we get a slowdown of new cases, we can do things like this relief bill which we need to do but this is just temporary, you know.

We're just -- we are burning money to keep warm because the heat is out but we have to slow the spread of that virus because we get out of lock down or we got to do testing or we got to have other means. But it's the virus is the boss. And that's, we just have to recognize that.

CUOMO: I want to go into the bill. But first, first, first, I want to get your take on this. Why -- what is the good argument for the president not pulling the string on his manufacturing power? And, you know, you know it all of course.

But you know, the wartime power of him saying to the factories as they did in World War II you are going to be making x instead of waiting on them to figure out how to get it done on a voluntary basis.

GOOLSBEE: I'm confused. I don't really know what -- if there is a good argument other than they don't want the government to be telling the private sector what to do even if it is an emergency.

But I think it's a mistake. Because these are specialized things. They're not complicated. But they are specialized. And there isn't normally the production of this kind of volume. I think orienting whoever it is, automakers or other manufactures who are at very low levels of productions right now, I think it makes sense.

Now as you know, in the pandemic plans they haven't really been following it does more than this. You could get the army involved in the logistics where they can say, you know, this factory can make this but they don't have latex. Well, we can get latex from this other spot and have them ship it.

So, I think hopefully we will over the next couple of weeks move to a thing where we can make ventilators, make respirators, make the kind of protective equipment that we need. Because we got to control the virus if you want the economy to come back. It's that simple.

CUOMO: The military isn't even doing testing yet. They volunteered to do it. We're not even using them the process that yet, we have a Congress member in California who's been waiting five days for her test results. Crazy. Crazy.

GOOLSBEE: It doesn't make sense.

CUOMO: So, the stimulus bill comes. Its dense. Put up the graphic we have as I ask Austan about it. Now you got two different buckets of need here. You got stimulus, you know, the top line of about $1,200 depending on what you make, whether you're an individual or married or head of a household. Plus $500 per kid. And then you have the unemployment benefits.

So, there's a lot of different buckets that you might fit in here or not.

[23:29:59]

How hard is it going to be for people to figure out how they get what they get into? They have to decide and apply or is it all done for them?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Hopefully, almost all of it is done for them. The $1,200 for adult and $500 for kid, it is supposed to get sent to you directly. If the IRS already has your bank account for when you filled out your taxes, it is supposed to just put the money right in your bank account.

If they can't, they are supposed to send you a letter and the treasury saying that that could be out in three weeks. That would be great. If you're unemployed, it is going to be a bigger amount of money, an extra $600 per week, but there you do have to file for unemployment insurance. You saw by far the biggest increase in unemployment claims of all time, by a factor of five, the biggest --

CUOMO: Right.

GOOLSBEE: So, it is going to be a little bit of pressure on the front end applying for that.

CUOMO: Right. That's complicated. Yeah. That is going to be complicated because you have to apply. Most states, they try to do unemployment insurance like 40 percent, 45 percent of your weekly check. I think the average check for a worker in America is something like around $1,000 bucks or at least that is their calculation of what it is and this would add another 13 weeks of it.

Now, the political pushback is you are incentivizing people not to work. They are going to make more money with this plan than they would have if they were working. You're incentivizing them basically to step out of the job force. Now, under the obvious argument of you can't quit and get this, what do you think of the political pushback?

GOOLSBEE: Well, you know, all I'll say is I kind of object to calling this entire bill stimulus. I don't think it is stimulus. I think it is relief and rescue. By the distinction I am making is stimulus is we are going to give you a check because we want you to go out and spend it and then whoever you spend it on, we want them to go out and spend it, and you get some spill over.

I think this is primarily we don't want anybody to starve. You keep food on the table. We don't want permanent damage from what we hope to be a temporary shock. So, I think that there is always a trade-off between tailoring who gets the money and getting the money out as fast as possible.

In this thing, I can see why the critics don't like that it would go through the unemployment insurance system and there are some workers that a few senators objected, they say, wait, they might even get more than 100 percent of their wages.

But, look, the fact is we are trying to get this money to the people in need and we try to get it out the door quickly. The thing is if we can't get control of this virus, this money is going to run out, and we're going --

CUOMO: Right.

GOOLSBEE: -- to be back. It doesn't matter how big it is. We are going to be back and needing more money because people are going to be back on the edge.

CUOMO: So, then it gets -- so there is good news and bad news. Self- employed people will be picked up on unemployment insurance. A lot of people are worried about that. We have a lot of independent contractors in our economy as you know.

GOOLSBEE: Yup.

CUOMO: They will get picked up and they can file for self-employment for unemployment (INAUDIBLE). That is good. However, utilities and cable can still come after you if you don't pay your bill even though there is student loan forgiveness if the federal loan and other types of advanced programs of businesses can apply for. Is that about as good a balance as you could have done or you think utility should have been thrown in?

GOOLSBEE: Well, look, they tried to solve the problem of figuring out which bill would be paid for by just giving you money. I think that is probably the right approach. I think that where the conflict may come about in the future is that we got $500 billion of rescue money going to big corporations. There is little over $250 billion or almost $250 billion of additional corporate tax cuts.

I think the jury is still out who is going to get that money and how it is going to be governed. There could be people coming back and saying, why did we spend $500 billion to save the airline industry or some specific industry and they won't invoke the Defense Production Act and they are arguing over $1 billion for ventilators.

I think that might be a source of tension in the future. But right now, they are just trying to get the money out and let you pay whichever bills you have.

CUOMO: And remember, again, you know this. For you at home, businesses can file for bankruptcy protection and sweat (ph) workers. Workers don't get that benefit. When you go bankrupt, you don't get to reorganize and come out of it that way.

Yes, you have Chapter 13 under the bankruptcy laws, but it is different. It is different for workers than it is for businesses. That is why I have been focusing on businesses with Austan. One other thing, many of you have asked, I can't work. I lost my child care. That is in here.

[23:35:00]

CUOMO: That is in here. You can file for relief benefits in order to -- because you can't pay for child care. That is here. Austan Goolsbee, thank you very much. More questions --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: All right. Now look, the mantra has to be together as ever as one. We got to have faith in this because the pain is real and the pragmatism that brings us together is the only thing that will get us through it. That is why I'm turning to a spiritual advisor like the great Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of the New York diocese to talk to us how to come together when you are forced to stay apart, next.

[23:40:00]

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CUOMO: Americans, we come together. There is comfort in the collective. But not now. So, how do we keep faith in these circumstances? New York Archbishop Cardinal Timothy Dolan with his answer.

Cardinal, thank you so much for taking time to join us. I know how busy your days are, especially with all the need in the city right now.

TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: Chris, I appreciate being asked. I wish I could walk up the street and be with you there in Columbus Circle.

CUOMO: I miss you. I hope I get to see you soon where I can give you a big hug and thanks in appreciation as a Catholic for what you have been doing with the community, both the religious and non-religious. But here is the trick for you, cardinal.

Ordinarily, I have heard you say so many times, people need to come together, whether it is asking Catholics to come to mass, observe -- obviously, we are in one of our holiest seasons here of Lent going into Easter. But how do you bring people together when they literally are forced to stay apart?

DOLAN: Sure. You know, Chris, physical togetherness is very important, so having a congregation at mass, having our families around the table, having neighbors and friends in, that physical connection is very important. It is not the only kind of connection though, all right?

There can be solidarity, a unity in focus, in hard work, in prayer, in faith. We can come together in many ways besides the tactile, OK? I think this is teaching us. I heard people say, literally, while they are clustered in the room, that they feel closer to their neighbors, they feel closer to their family than they have in a long time.

If a sense of presence and a belief in someone's company was dependent upon the physical, where would our faith be in god, because god's presence isn't physical to us, but it is as real as ever. Have you ever seen anybody more in love than a wife at home with her kids whose husband is fighting in Iraq or in Afghanistan? They are more in love. They feel closer together than ever.

So this is the time that it is dawning on us, Chris, that togetherness, connection, solidarity, community, unity while we really bask in the physical part of it doesn't exclusively depend on that.

CUOMO: Absence can make the heart grow fonder. My wife certainly likes it when I am on the road for work. I am not exactly to Hawaii.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: We will discuss that at different time, archbishop. Let me ask you this. People are starting to get a feel of the reality. They hear that Easter services won't be there but bigger. They are starting to see what is happening at the hospitals. They are hearing --

DOLAN: Yeah.

CUOMO: They are hearing that they have to bring in refrigerated trucks because people can't even say good-bye to the departed with any dignity, with any religious ceremony. Of course, you know, you have been so important to so many families, including my own, in terms of helping us deal with death. The delay, the incompleteness, the lack of closure, what would that mean for people?

DOLAN: It will mean a lot. You used a good word there when you spoke about reality. I have been getting calls from all over the country, all over the world. They are saying, what it is like there in New York? We hear it is at ground zero. We hear it is the epicenter.

The word that most comes to mind is realism. I don't sense panic. I don't sense despair. I do sense a very vivid sentiment of realism. They know what is going on. They know it is probably going to get much more pressured before it begins to get better. So, they are realistically assessing what is going on.

One of the things that we got here, Chris, I guess for the most of us, we can think back to Sandy, we can think back to 9/11, OK? Our elders can think back to the World War II, to the depression. For Sandy and 9/11, for us New Yorkers, those were awful and had consequences that are still with us in some ways, but they were over and done with, and we could begin to rebuild.

Not with this invisible enemy. We still don't know where it is going to attack, how many more are going to be attacked, and when it is going to end. That kind of adds to a sense of apprehension.

[23:45:00]

DOLAN: That adds to this dug in realism that I sense all around us.

CUOMO: How do you reconcile the season of rebirth and renewal that will be coming at the same time that we will really be mired and maybe the deadliest aspect of this, if we are lucky, for our stay in this region?

DOLAN: It could be. I know you are referring to two weeks from now when our Jewish neighbors will celebrate Passover. I think it is a gift because it will allow us all to take a deeper, spiritual interpretation of this. What is the Passover about? The Passover is about deliverance from death and depression, no future in Egypt, slavery, deliberation, new life, promise, and hope in Israel.

What is Holy Week about? It is about Good Friday afternoon when literally the earth went black as the sun was hid, as the earth shuttered with tremors of sadness with the death of the savior, and then passing over to new life and hope and resurrection on Easter Sunday.

This is what we need now. This is what we need. We are being very realistic as you and I commented about three minutes ago in the difficulties we got, in the apprehension that we got, in the tough work we got ahead.

We are also realistic to know that there is a deep stamina in the human heart. There is a deep connection among all of us. There is a deep sense of divine providence and protection, which I think is going to be particularly vivid and dramatic at Passover and Holy Week this year.

CUOMO: Quickly, cardinal, before our time runs out here, your message to people who say, I love my community, but I got to take care of my own. I am buying up all that toilet paper. I am going to buy up as much food as I can. I got to protect my own. I'm scared. What do you say?

DOLAN: No, no, no. This is a call to selflessness and generosity, and what greater example do we got than our extraordinary courageous health care workers, who are literally going for 18 hours a day, who are putting themselves in danger to protect us. We got this virus through other people. Healing and help is going to come from our outreach to other people.

This is a call, of course, to be very practical and realistic in protecting ourselves and our family, but it is also a summons to take care of the wider community. Darn it, New York and the United States are doing that, thank god.

CUOMO: Thank god. So far, we are showing that we can be together as ever as one and that is the way through. Cardinal, thank you for reminding us during this very holy time of the year.

DOLAN: Thank you, Chris. How's your mom?

CUOMO: My mom is doing well. She is with my sister. She is doing well. She always gets so excited to hear that you thought of her. And of course, you are in her prayers.

DOLAN: Give her my love and tell her I want that lasagna at Easter, OK?

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: You will be first up with a plate for sure.

DOLAN: Thanks.

CUOMO: Cardinal Timothy Dolan, be well and thank you for the spiritual well-being.

DOLAN: You are welcome, Chris. God bless you all.

CUOMO: God bless, cardinal.

Look, at the end of the day, everybody is saying it right now. We are all in this together. We just have to act that way. Some are going above and beyond to help their neighbors. Some need to be called out. Ameri-CANs and Ameri-CAN'Ts, next.

[23:50:00]

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CUOMO: It's not just the beaches where some people forgot that spring break is cancelled. Look at this swimming hole in Austin, Texas on Tuesday. Jam-packed just hours after Austin announced its own stay-at- home order. I mean, come on. Don't you see what's happening in New York? This is not the time to play games.

Now, next, even worse. The video you're seeing is of a Pennsylvania woman arraigned, not in a courthouse, but while sitting in the back of a police SUV, social distancing. The judge came outside to conduct the hearing. Why? Because the woman is charged with intentionally coughing on food at a grocery store after announcing, "I have the virus, now you are all going to get sick."

Authorities say she coughed on the produce, the baked goods, and the meats. The supermarket had to throw out $35,000 worth of groceries. Now, she turns out to be mentally ill and that this was driven by some type of illness, one thing. Otherwise, you got to call it out. In fact, she's lucky we're blurring her face.

OK, something much happier here now, Americans. Who is a good girl? It is Wynn, a service dog-in-training, who is comforting the staff at a Denver hospital on the frontlines of this coronavirus battle. She is being trained by the ER doctor. You see there, Susan Ryan. And yes, everyone who comes in contact with Wynn washes their hands first.

And I've been showing the medical heroes of Louisiana, the latest hot spot. But who are their heroes? They are New Orleans musicians rushing fresh meals to the hospital, donors chipping in to pay the restaurants that are helping to make it happen.

[23:54:58]

CUOMO: It's all being led by a Mardi Gras krewe leader, a much different but essential parade of support now. And look, I'm going to keep focusing on the frontlines because this battle is won and lost in terms of two things.

One, how we take care of the worst cases? Those are the hospitalized cases. Those are ventilators, PPE. You got to keep your frontline warriors protected. Otherwise, they're going to get it and we're done.

The second one is you and me, my brother and sister. We've got to do the right thing. You know that we have to keep a distance right now. We've got to keep it cool. That's how we'll get through it.

Special programming note, CNN is going to be hosting a democratic presidential town hall with former VP Joe Biden tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Tune in, see what he'll say about what he'd be doing, what the government is doing, and what should be done next. That is tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m., and we'll be back at 9:00.

Thank you for watching. Our coronavirus coverage continues on CNN.

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