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Italy Honors Victims of the Pandemic; Detroit Emerges as an American Hot Spot; Italian Government Will Likely Extend Nationwide Lockdown; U.K. Doctors Prepare for Peak of Outbreak; Movement of Indian Migrant Workers Causes Concern; Zimbabwe under Three-Week Lockdown; CDC Considering Face Masks for Public Use; China to Start Reporting Asymptomatic Cases; Amazon Workers Stage Walkout; Italian Author Pens Stark Letter to the U.K. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired March 31, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

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HALA GORANI, CNN HOST (voice-over): Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We're coming to you live from London once again this is CONNECT THE WORLD.

The latest on the corona pandemic.

The United States is facing a very grim number, possibly 2,000 deaths a day when the coronavirus peaks. Also this:

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GORANI (voice-over): Italy remembers the dead and reflects on its most difficult chapter since the Second World War.

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GORANI: Also, a massive emergency hospital ready in London as new statistics show a higher death toll than previously reported in this

country.

And from China to Sweden to Zimbabwe, CNN has stories and coverage from around the world this hour on this truly global story.

And we start with the United States, 2,000 deaths a day, that is a grim assessment of the United States about the looming peak of the coronavirus,

which it has not reached yet.

A model used by the White House predicts it will happen nationwide in mid- April. And that, even with social distancing measures in place, about 82,000 Americans will die by August. Nick Watt reports on the very

difficult days ahead.

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NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT(voice-over): A life lost in Brooklyn, one of thousands now across this country.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I would like to avoid it but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 100,000

deaths.

WATT (voice-over): Today a Navy hospital ship docked in New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last time this great hospital ship was in New York was in the wake of 9/11.

WATT (voice-over): A field hospital now in Central Park and fines for those who refuse to social distance.

BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK MAYOR: The fines are in the range of $250 to $500. That obviously will be a violation of summons that would be provided.

I don't want to see that happen.

WATT (voice-over): One research organization now projecting New York will reach peak death rate 10 days from now, at nearly 800 deaths that day.

Michigan will be a day later, California 25 days from now and Virginia not until mid-May.

ANDREW CUOMO (D), GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: What you see us going through here, you will see happening all across this country. There is no American

who is immune to this virus.

WATT (voice-over): In Michigan, confirmed cases exploded from around 50 to nearly 6,500 in two weeks.

FAUCI: We're also worried about Detroit. Detroit is starting to show some signs that they're going to take off.

WATT (voice-over): State to state travel restrictions also spreading, Rhode Island now ordering all visitors to self quarantine. They weren't

just stopping cars with New York plates and New York state threatened to sue, from noon today anyone traveling to Texas from these states and cities

must self quarantine 14 days.

Hotspots in all those places. And now it's time, we are told, for more rural areas to brace themselves.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: If the metros and the rural areas don't take care now, by the time you see it, it

has penetrated your community pretty significantly.

WATT (voice-over): Louisiana today reports 485 new cases and 34 deaths; still, hundreds reportedly attended this church Sunday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The church is the most essential thing in all the world.

WATT (voice-over): The pastor in Florida, who once prayed over the president, was arrested today for continuing to hold large services.

Doctors from the front lines begging us all to stay home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you can think of it as your lungs being filled with fluid, like you're drowning. And once you get that point where you are

drowning, you need a ventilator to stay alive. And we're running out of equipment for people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one that's beeping in the background is a young patient who was presumably healthy before they came in. This is not

something that's isolated to the old.

WATT: Here in the U.S., the federal government doesn't have any domestic travel restrictions in place. But the states are pretty much taking care of

that themselves, with these mandatory quarantines for people traveling into many states.

But Monday, I think, the first, Kentucky, the governor has now banned all nonessential travel out of the state. They have a relatively low confirmed

case count but the governor does not want people leaving Kentucky catching the virus and then bringing it home -- Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: Well, this report comes as the United States tops 3,000 deaths because of COVID-19. And as this coronavirus pandemic continues to spread

across the country -- and you heard Anthony Fauci, the top health official in the United States, mention Detroit, saying he's worried about Detroit,

that it is starting to show signs of, quote, "taking off."

Well, Ryan Young is live in Detroit and joins me now.

Talk to us a little bit about the preparations in that large American city as potentially they might be bracing for the next wave of coronavirus

infections in America.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. This city is known as the Motor City. And behind us is where they were going to have the auto show.

That is the TCF Center right there.

From what we're told, that's going to be turned into a field hospital, adding some 900 bed capacity to the area. They're going to add COVID

patients, split them up by how sick they are.

We even talked to an emergency room nurse this morning, who finished her shift and to give you an idea about this, at this one hospital, they had

over 650 people test positive. When you think about the numbers in the state, 6,500 people testing positive, more than 180 people died and those

numbers will be updated again just in about an hour from now.

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YOUNG: So we know the number will probably grow even more. But listen to this emergency room nurse talk about what they're facing on a day to day

basis.

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MICHELLE TURNER, HENRY FORD HOSPITAL E.R.: Up until about a week ago, I thought, you know, how much of this is the hype and this and that. And

until you start seeing it come in and how real, how sick people can get with this and it is not just, you know, we're seeing young people as well

get very ill with this.

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YOUNG: That has been the big surprise, the fact that it is infecting so many young people because so many times they thought they were immune to

this. That's not what is happening. They're walking in to the E.R. very sick and it takes a lot to keep them healthy through this situation.

Now some people have been able to go home and recover. But to show you the spread that is happening here in the community, the police chief in Detroit

has actually tested positive for COVID-19. A detective has died. The school superintendent sent out a very sad tweet just last night, saying two

employees died and three parents died, all yesterday.

So people in this community are concerned and worried. There is no traffic anywhere in the Motor City right now. It is like this city is on lockdown

but that spread is already starting to happen and people are wondering what is going to happen to the people in the lower economic neighborhoods, who

don't have access to health care as readily as they think they probably should at this point.

GORANI: Always a concern for people, more disadvantaged people, who might be also -- who might also fall victim. Thank you very much, Ryan Young,

live in Detroit.

YOUNG: Thank you.

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GORANI (voice-over): All of Italy has paused today in a somber moment of silence, lowering flags to half-mast for a national day of mourning. It is

to remember the nearly 11,600 people killed by the virus in the country, according to Johns Hopkins University.

The endless stream of coffins come and go. Priests quickly perform last rites with few or no family members there to say goodbye, one of the

tragedies of this vicious virus. It has become the deadliest month for any given disaster in Italy since World War II.

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GORANI: Senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is live from Rome.

Italy has been on lockdown for weeks now.

Are there any encouraging numbers out at this stage, any reason to hope that this country has seen the peak in the number of cases?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, we're two hours away from the daily press conference by the Italian civil protection

agency. And what we have seen is there is perhaps a hopeful trend.

The number of new cases reported yesterday at 6:00 pm was around half the number of new cases reported the day before.

So it -- there is a definite slowdown in the increase of new cases but the death toll remains disturbingly high. It hit a high of 969 last Friday.

Yesterday was reported at 812. So, yes, of course, it is down.

But in a country like this, these numbers, the average age of those who are dying is about 78. These numbers are disturbing. And also given that 80

percent of the people who have coronavirus are in the north of the country. So that part of Italy is really undergoing a traumatic experience.

Here in Rome, the numbers are much better. Today at midday, for the moment of silence, it was hard to notice because pretty silent as it is right now.

In addition to the mounting death toll, we heard just a few moments ago from the Italian Federation of Doctors that at this point 66 doctors have

passed away as a result of coronavirus.

We heard yesterday that at least 1,300 medical personnel have reported positive. The Italian government, Hala, is currently discussing extending

the current lockdown, which is supposed to end on the 3rd of April, perhaps extending it to the 12th of April.

But no definite decision has been made at this point. If the numbers continue to improve, there may be some sort of modifications to the

lockdown; it may be eased in those areas, where the numbers are not so high, but remain in place in those areas like Northern Italy, where the

numbers are exceedingly high -- Hala.

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GORANI: All right, Ben Wedeman, live in Rome, thanks very much.

For our viewers around the world, who may not be where Italy is, in this coronavirus timeline, let's put this dire situation in context for you.

An entire family in northern Italy has passed away after contracting the virus. Alfredo Bertucci, his wife, Angela, and their sons, Daniele and

Claudio, all passed away in less than a week. They were well known for their blacksmith business in the town of Vulgaro (ph). You have images of

the family there. Tragically all have died as a result of this illness.

And later this hour, by the way, I'll be speaking with an Italian novelist, she has an amazing perspective. For us here in London, we're several weeks

behind Italy. She is going to be talking about what we can all expect, what life is really like under quarantine.

And also what matters, what ends up mattering more to you when things are put in such stark relief in your life, what relationships matter, what

don't; what matters in terms of your work and what doesn't.

Speaking of the United Kingdom, there are new figures that are showing that the rate of infection and death are possibly higher than first anticipated,

according to the country's Office of National Statistics. There were 210 deaths before March 20th in England and Wales. That's 40 more than what the

government announced previously.

Now that number is higher because it includes those who died outside of hospitals, including in homes and care facilities. So they have included

the number of people who have died outside of medical care facilities in that final statistic.

And, meanwhile, here in London, doctors are struggling still to get vital medical equipment in order to treat patients and protect themselves. Here

is Nick Paton Walsh -- Nick.

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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): London may be a week from the worst. This sprawling pop-up hospital on the banks

of the Thames due to have 4,000 beds is part of a message of readiness.

But elsewhere, some doctors feel far from ready. George Zimbadze (ph) is one, working this weekend in an urgent walk-in healthcare center. U.K.

guidelines told him to wear this. But he saw images from Italy and wanted extra protection and bought these in a hardware store.

GEORGE ZIMBADZE (PH), MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL: (INAUDIBLE) So we made a little bit of a (INAUDIBLE) look almost (INAUDIBLE) astronaut (INAUDIBLE).

(INAUDIBLE).

WALSH (voice-over): But the health care center told him not to wear the extra gear as they had to obey guidelines. So he has had to stop going to

help in the center, not just to protect him; he doesn't want to spread the infection to other patients.

ZIMBADZE (PH): We want to help. That's what we do. That's what we train to do. And that's what the program is in our head.

At the same time, we also are -- we know that we shouldn't harm to others. So I feel very uncomfortable for myself, for the people that we will see,

one to the other, because I feel I might not have that virus in that particular moment. But there's the possibility I could transfer the

infection from one person to another person.

WALSH (voice-over): A doctor support group said Monday, many have reported having to get their own PPE. The health care center in question said staff

safety is nonnegotiable and a doctor recently left their shift after refusing to use appropriate PPE. The government has promised nationwide PPE

deliveries.

ROBERT JENRICK, U.K. SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: To NHS and social care workers, all those who rely on this

equipment and to their families and loved ones watching this afternoon, we understand. And we will not stop until we have got you the equipment that

you need.

WALSH (voice-over): Grave uncertainty, just as the peak nears in London.

WALSH: And one NHS manager I spoke to said that they haven't got much detailed knowledge of the national modeling being done about the virus

spread so they had to try and do it themselves. And that projected, that here in the capital, they would start seeing the peak beginning April 6th,

worsening week April 13th and in each of those weeks they could be several hundred beds short of the intensive care capacity that they need.

Now many of those will come to here, NHS Nightingale, a pop-up hospital, quickly put together, potentially 4,000 bed in capacity. I have to say,

inside, they don't have anything near that at the moment.

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WALSH: But it is a signal of readiness to the British public, who are about to see the surge. The prime minister in self-isolation, the only

world leader having tested positive for coronavirus and some uncertainty about what the numbers this far tell Britain about what is ahead, the truth

sadly, imminently available to them -- Hala.

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GORANI: Thank you very much, Nick Paton Walsh with that.

Now let's talk about France because the numbers are not very encouraging yet. Even though the country has been in lockdown for several weeks, France

saw its largest daily jump in death -- in the death toll there on Monday.

More than 3,000 people there have died because of this pandemic. It comes as the French prime minister warns that the country is, quote, "only at the

beginning of the crisis." My colleague Jim Bittermann has the latest.

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JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jim Bittermann in France, where President Macron promised 4 billion euros in spending to the public

healthcare system to among other things purchase new equipment.

France, like so many other countries, trying to (INAUDIBLE) masks and personal protective equipment and respirators. So the president had a tour

of a mask-making company in the Loire Valley today, said they're going to purchase more.

They're going to try to produce more in this country. And the president said that the country needs 40 million masks a week. That's masks not only

for medical personnel but also for people like truck drivers and grocery store cashiers and other people, who have been threatening to strike unless

they get better protection against the coronavirus.

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GORANI: And in Spain, the total number of COVID-19 fatalities stands at more than 8,000. In just 24 hours the country saw nearly 850 deaths. Spain

now has more confirmed cases than China.

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SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in Madrid, where Spain's death toll has climbed past 8,000 after this country recorded its highest

number of deaths in the last 24 hours, almost 850.

Now in addition to an ice rink in Madrid, the city is also using a second temporary morgue that can hold about 200 bodies. It is grim news to be

sure. But officials here say there are signs to be optimistic, that the situation here in Spain is beginning to stabilize or even improve.

The percentage increase in deaths was the lowest that it has been in the last two weeks. And it has now been five days since the increase in the

active number of cases peaked at more than 6,200.

The sheer volume of cases is undoubtedly putting a strain on this country's healthcare system; one in every seven confirmed cases of coronavirus are

health care workers.

And now one of this country's largest unions representing health care workers say that some of its members are refusing to staff a convention

center in Madrid that is being used as a hospital, where, the union says, the people aren't staying far enough apart from one another and staff and

equipment are far too scarce.

The Madrid government has acknowledged a small incident at the facility but says there is enough equipment.

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GORANI: All right, that was Scott McLean there, reporting from Spain.

As we mentioned, more than 8,000 deaths in that country. And in Ukraine, border guards seized 300,000 medical masks at the border and respirators as

well that were going to be smuggled to a foreign buyer. Special forces raided the operation in Kharkiv, Ukraine, on Monday.

You can see video of that there. The Ukrainian government has banned exports of masks and other items that fight the spread of the disease. And

there is a stash of money as well there on that video.

Still to come, India is resorting to some stringent measures in order to contain the virus. The hardships facing migrant workers, who must quickly

head back home.

Also, under lockdown, a state of emergency in Africa. Millions of people are losing their livelihoods as governments force people to stay in their

homes. We'll be right back.

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GORANI: In a country the size of India, you can imagine the complications associated with telling people that they have to shelter in place and lock

down. Some can't even do it. India has 1.3 billion people, under lockdown in theory.

Here is one example of the urgent measures now in place. A city in northern India turned a stadium into a temporary jail for lockdown violators. And

Sam Kiley tells us, coronavirus restrictions are proving to be a particular challenge for millions of Indians normally on the move.

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SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Migrant workers doused with a solution of bleach on arrival in India's state of Uttar Pradesh.

National authorities said that the disinfection of travelers like this was overzealous.

But it reflects widespread fears that the mass movement of hundreds of thousands of Indian migrant workers back home during a three-week national

lockdown could spread the disease quickly across a nation of 1.3 billion people.

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NARESH TREHAN, CHAIRMAN & MANAGING DIRECTOR, MEDANTA HOSPITAL: Now they're all packed together like they're like sardines. And the infection, if it is

there, which most likely there is, will spread like wildfire. And then it will be impossible to control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILEY: India has a relatively low number of known infections. The national lockdown is intended to slow virus contamination, but it also means instant

unemployment for vast numbers.

"Whatever food was left, we ate it, and now we have no way going forward here that's why I'm going back home," says Zafar Abas (ph), a bag maker who

is leaving Delhi. He went on, "if I go back to my village, we have access to government hospitals there, so if any of us fall sick we can be

treated."

In poor rural areas, locals are doing what they can to combat the virus. Dousing village streets with turmeric water, a natural disinfectant, and

self-isolating from crowded homes. In trees.

India's government has pledged $23 billion in a stimulus package for the virus-sickened academy.

Some trains are being turn into coronavirus wards. But markets still team with people. Millions of whom live crammed in slums, already frequently hit

by epidemics of cholera and other diseases. Police have resorted to uncommon punishment sometimes to enforce the lockdown.

This officer, wearing a helmet modeled on the coronavirus, has try to charm people off the streets. But whether by brick bat or bouquet, beating the

spread of the deadly virus will be impossible amid scenes like this, where workers struggle unto buses and spread out across the nation -- Sam Kiley,

CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: There is also concern in Africa, we haven't seen the types of numbers we have seen in Europe, the United States or other parts of the

world.

But Nigeria's largest city, Lagos, now under a 14-day lockdown. A man who lives there sent us this video of people doing last minute shopping at a

market. The country has more than 130 cases and at least two deaths so far. These numbers according to Johns Hopkins.

Well, Zimbabwe, meanwhile, is under a three-week lockdown in that African country.

[10:25:00]

GORANI: Police are driving around with loudspeakers, telling people to stay home. The country has at least eight confirmed cases and at least one

death.

According to this video, it looks like people are heeding the advice. Neighboring Botswana reported its first three cases on Monday. The health

minister said they traveled to the U.K. and Thailand. The president announced a state of emergency and a lockdown for 28 days.

That gives you an idea of what is going on in some African countries and what is happening in India. But it has to be said that not every country in

the world is imposing these types of very stringent lockdown rules. Bianca Nobilo reports on how Sweden is approaching the pandemic.

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BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The usually bustling streets of Copenhagen are largely deserted as the capital represents many

European cities on lockdown.

But the scene is very different in the Swedish city of Malmo. Life appears to be carrying on almost as normal.

"We still have a lot to do," says this hair salon owner.

Though some clients canceled, appointments have been fully booked at least one day this week. Her salon is among the shops, restaurants and bars

across Sweden remaining open for business, as the country takes its own approach to the coronavirus pandemic.

Children are still attending class, as primary schools stay open in most of the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the Swedish government sees other possibilities. The school is a very important function in society.

NOBILO (voice-over): Sweden has some of the fewest limits on social movement of any European country. Containment is largely based on volunteer

action, as the government adopts a wait and see attitude.

The public health agency's lead epidemiologist says a public quarantine would do more harm than good and new cases may level out if the public

follows advice on social distancing. So far rates of coronavirus cases in Sweden appear to be keeping pace with neighboring Denmark and Norway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There might be a difference in Sweden. We might have -- there's some sort of genetic disposition to social distancing in our

society anyhow. We're not that dense in terms of social contacts in normal circumstances.

NOBILO (voice-over): The Swedish approach is not without controversy. Some experts are accusing the government of not doing enough to fight COVID-19.

But officials say they're not ruling out stricter measures in the future.

Meanwhile, the country prepares for the inevitable, as the military constructs a hospital for future coronavirus patients -- Bianca Nobilo,

CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: A lot more to come ahead, I'm going to be answering your questions about coronavirus and how you can protect yourself and your family.

And, by the way, Americans not showing COVID-19 symptoms have been told in the past not to wear face masks. Why that could soon change and whether or

not you should also consider it.

And we'll speak to an Amazon employee, who was fired after a walkout, why Amazon says he put people at risk. We'll be right back.

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GORANI: All Americans could be told to wear a face mask in the future to limit the spread of coronavirus. Now this goes against some of the advice

we've all heard and we're earlier in the coronavirus timeline than the United States here in Europe.

Earlier today, the U.S. surgeon general said the Centers for Disease Control will make the call if warranted. Let's bring in Dr. Richard Dawood

to talk about the effectiveness of masks for the general public.

Thank you very much for joining us. I asked on Twitter some of our viewers to submit their questions as well. And before we get to the mask question,

we're going to hear from the U.S. president, I wanted to put to you one of the questions I hear asked most often, it is coming to us from Roseanne,

who works at CNN.

I thought it was one of the better, more pertinent questions, for how long are you contagious, even if you are asymptomatic?

If you are a carrier, how long before you stop being contagious, Doctor?

DR. RICHARD DAWOOD, FLEET STREET CLINIC: So only a very small number of people get no symptoms at all. And when they do get no symptoms at all,

that's difficult because we don't really know when to start testing them or when to (INAUDIBLE).

So that is an unknown. But when somebody actually does have symptoms, we believe that they are capable of transmitting the virus from about two days

prior to the onset of those symptoms. And you go on being able to detect virus for some time afterwards.

But those tests are based on detecting the virus genetic material. So we're not really sure how long afterwards they're truly infectious.

Most guidelines suggest (INAUDIBLE) day seven, you are -- either after day seven or after at least three or four days of having no symptoms, you are

safe and not infectious to other people, even though it may still be possible to detect traces of the virus genetic material.

GORANI: So many unknowns still.

Let's listen to the U.S. president. In Europe we were told wearing face masks won't make much of a difference. The U.S. president had this to say

about personal face mask usage. Listen.

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TRUMP: We're not going to be wearing masks forever but it could be for a short period of time after we get back into gear. People could -- I could

see something hike that happening for a period of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: So Doctor, is wearing a face mask useful in preventing infection to yourself and preventing others from being infected if you are a virus

carrier, yes or no?

DAWOOD: OK. So there are broadly two different kinds of face masks, one is the surgical mask that you see people wearing a lot among the public. And

the second category is the respirator or the filtration face mask that you see medical people using in risky situations.

So normal surgical mask is about one-tenth as effective as the high filtration mask. And a normal surgical mask is quite good at protecting

other people from the wearer because it filters out big droplets and can protect the wearer from big droplets also in terms of splashes.

But the real problem is that, when you wear a face mask in a contaminated environment, if there is genuinely infection around, it will tend to

accumulate (INAUDIBLE).

So most people without training will tend to handle the surface of the mask and then contaminate themselves. So when used correctly, it can be

effective. But the reality is when masks are in short supply and people are re-using them or wearing them for a long period.

[10:35:00]

DAWOOD: The effect is to transfer the infection back to yourself. So it is a bit doubtful. It is questionable (INAUDIBLE). They're designed for single

use, whether surgical masks or the high filtration masks, we're just not used to using them on our own in a shortage type situation.

GORANI: Got it. Let me put to you this question from another Twitter user.

Is it possible for a recovered COVID-19 patient to become infected again?

DAWOOD: So out of all the cases that have been studied so far, this has not happened. I think it would be definitely headline news if there were

any well documented cases of reinfection. So to the best of our belief and also from the (INAUDIBLE) other kinds of coronavirus infection, the

immunity seems to be pretty robust.

The genome that the virus has been stable since it was first discovered so it is not a case of mutants evolving to evade our immunity, it looks as

though we have got (INAUDIBLE) a stable genome and reversed immunity. Second infection is not going to happen.

GORANI: All right, that's at least something positive.

Can dogs carry the virus?

DAWOOD: No, that's fake news. There is no confirmed example of anything like that happening.

GORANI: Great.

Another Twitter question, are blood donors tested for the virus?

This is a legitimate concern, I imagine, because if you need a blood transfusion, you want to make sure the blood is not, you know, infected

with the coronavirus.

DAWOOD: I'm sure that blood transfusion laboratories are going to be very alert to this. And at the moment I'm not sure how easy it is going to be

protected (ph) for them to test blood samples. That could be screened out by making sure people are not sick when they -- when they donate blood.

Interestingly, however, the antibodies in blood for all people who have recovered from the infection could potentially be used as a possible

treatment. And this is, again, something that is being considered and looked at very carefully.

GORANI: I have a couple of quick ones here.

Joggers, I brought that concern up yesterday, with our viewers, I have friends as well, joggers, you know, they pant, they breathe heavily if they

run past you.

Are you more at risk than if it is just an ordinary pedestrian?

They make me a little nervous, the joggers.

DAWOOD: Yes. Well, I think everybody should be on good behavior and apply social distancing measures. And certainly it can be alarming to be breathed

at vigorously by anybody. So I hope people will take particular care.

Having said that, the risk of transmission out in the open is very much less than indoors. You don't really want to be in the line of fire of

somebody panting heavily in your face. But I would imagine that in the outdoors the risk is very much reduced.

Obviously people who are sick are not going to be out jogging. So, again, that should help reduce the risk somewhat.

GORANI: Packages and deliveries, can the virus live on cardboard, on plastic packaging?

If you get a delivery, what should be your standard operating procedure?

DAWOOD: Well, survival on cardboard and plastic packaging is limited and certainly survivability starts declining immediately. It is possible to

detect virus genetic material a matter of hours or even days afterwards. But it is not very likely in practical terms.

Certainly something that is shipped out to you is very -- by the time it reaches you, it is very, very unlikely that there would be any

transmission.

GORANI: All right. Dr. Richard Dawood.

(CROSSTALK)

GORANI: Sorry, finish your thought.

DAWOOD: Just wash your hands after you handle anything. That's the rule.

GORANI: Really just absolutely fantastic advice from you.

[10:40:00]

GORANI: Thank you so much for joining us. We couldn't get to all of your questions but I'm going to save the good ones and put them to our expert

guests over the next few days. Thank you again.

DAWOOD: Thank you.

GORANI: We, I believe are going to take a quick break. Let's talk about -- we were talking about the growing concern over cases of coronavirus that

are asymptomatic. Now in China, the number of cases could soon grow because people are returning from abroad. We'll talk about that particular concern

after the break.

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GORANI: Let us talk about China, that is where the pandemic originated. And there is some concern that the death toll, the number of total cases,

may in fact be higher than was publicly acknowledged by authorities there. Let's get David -- to David Culver in Shanghai for more.

And some of the reports are about people collecting the ashes of their deceased relatives, that the number of incinerators at work suggests a much

larger number.

What can you tell us about China's official number and reports that perhaps it might be underestimating the real toll?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's out of a report from a leading business publication here. It is Chinese media. Interestingly enough, they

put that out and it is getting a lot of interest because folks are suggesting that may question the numbers being well above their roughly

3200 deaths that have been reported officially from the national health commission or the Chinese government.

We should point out we have been questioning the numbers here for the many weeks we have been covering this, for more than 2.5 months altogether. Our

experience in talking to folks early on was that testing with was delayed or not happening.

What you have to remember is going back to even January and into February, at times they had only roughly 200 tests a day. Those numbers have since

changed where they have hundreds of thousands of capacity in testing daily today.

But going back early on, they didn't have that capacity and so you naturally had people who were not getting tested who passed away. We talked

to several and his mother had passed away, was told it was severe pneumonia, the doctor said it is very likely that coronavirus.

But they didn't have a test, so they couldn't confirm. So wee have cases like that, so the death toll will be higher than what has been reported.

Asymptomatic cases are interesting right now because it is something to be released as part of the government figures. They announced that just today.

That is starting tomorrow, they're going to be begin to release the asymptomatic figures.

[10:45:00]

CULVER: Why does that matter?

You look at what we have seen thus far, it has been day after day of zero locally transmitted cases that, according to the Chinese government, and

they have been focused on those imported cases, those coming from other countries, hence why they roughly shut down the borders to all foreigners

coming in.

The asymptomatic cases, they gave us the first numbers of those for Monday, 1,500 cases, Hala. So we expect to be getting those daily. But these are

people who will be walking around without symptoms, potentially spreading the virus.

GORANI: All right, David Culver, thanks very much.

I'm sure you've been using Amazon quite a bit, if you have access to the online retailer. One of the workers in New York, who staged a walkout on

Monday, is out of a job. Christian Smalls and others were protesting the company's response to an outbreak of coronavirus in warehouse employees.

An Amazon spokesperson says Smalls was fired not because he protested but was asked to stay home after being exposed to the virus but came to the

warehouse anyway. He put the teams at risk.

And Christian Smalls is joining me today from New Jersey.

Thank you for being with us.

How do you respond to Amazon saying that essentially you broke quarantine and that's why you were let go?

CHRISTIAN SMALLS, AMAZON EMPLOYEE: Well, I would respond to that by saying, how did I come in contact with that?

If I put employees at risk, what about what they did?

They obviously allowed an associate that went and got the test to actually come back to work. Because if it wasn't for me reporting to work on Tuesday

and sending her home, she would have worked a whole other day.

She informed them on Monday, after being at work for the entire week -- our workweek is Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. She came into work on

Monday. And informed her leadership that she went and got tested.

From that moment forward, they should have put her on quarantine until they received her results back. But they didn't do that.

GORANI: Yes.

SMALLS: So they put --

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GORANI: What is your job at the Amazon warehouse in New Jersey?

How many people?

Is there any social distancing protocol in place in the warehouse?

How close do people work together in there?

SMALLS: I'm in Staten Island. This is social distance guideline. But there is nobody enforcing it. That's the problem. The managers are so scarce in

there because they're secretly quarantined managers, there is not enough leadership to enforce the rules.

It is just -- it is scarce and a lot of people and a lot of different departments not there in the building. One by one people are, like,

disappearing. I got word yesterday that it was a ghost town in there. The day before, the same thing, ghost town in there.

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GORANI: Amazon said that -- just wanted to ask -- yes. Sorry, we're talking over each other, there is a bit of a delay, Christian, sorry about

that.

I wanted to ask how many people took part in the walkout. Amazon is saying 15 employees took part in the protest and basically you -- because you

weren't respecting the quarantine, put people at risk.

How many people took part in this walkout?

SMALLS: It was about 50 to 60 people. I don't know why they are saying there is a lower amount, you know, doesn't take a rocket scientist to

figure out, if you look at the pictures we have online, in different articles and media press that was out there, they could tell you it was

more than in the parking lot.

Going back to them, saying that I put people at risk, what I did was save people's lives. I sent her home. She tested positive on Wednesday. And I

sent her home on Tuesday. I was only around her for five minutes.

So who was the Amazon expertise, medical expertise that decided who should be placed on quarantine?

Are you telling me she can be around associates and employees with 10 plus hours a day and I'm around her for five minutes and I'm the only person

that gets placed on quarantine?

That tells you right there that the policy is flawed. They don't have a transparency with the employees. They're not informing people of how many

people are actually in that building that tested positive.

If you look at the press yesterday, they are still confirming they only had one case. The one case was from March 11th, if we remember. But I sent home

the second case on Tuesday.

[10:50:00]

GORANI: Christian -- thank -- I want to thank you for joining us, this story has gotten a lot of attention and people are talking about how safe

it is for employees to work in big warehouses like that.

I want to thank you for joining us and sharing your story and, Christian, hopefully we'll check in again, once we learn about how Amazon is reacting.

Thanks very much, Christian Smalls.

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GORANI: We're going to take a quick break. A writer shares a poignant letter. We'll be right back.

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GORANI: Well, a story in "The Guardian" newspaper called, "A letter to the U.K. from Italy" has gone viral. I'm sorry I'm using that word. A different

context in this case. Francesca Melandri wrote the piece. She joins me live via Skype from Rome.

Thank you for being with us.

"I'm writing to you from Italy, which means I'm writing from your future."

I found your piece, which was translated by the way into many languages including Chinese and French and other languages as well extremely

interesting because we are ahead -- we are behind you, I should say. You're ahead of us.

What is the one thing that you would want us to know about what we should look forward to in our future?

FRANCESCA MELANDRI, AUTHOR: Well, the one thing to say is stay home. That's the real point, the real message to get across. Stay home, don't let

the -- this virus go around and somehow we are all sharing this experience.

It is something that is really extraordinary the way it has been somehow uniting people everywhere. And, of course, with -- for a bad reason. But it

is a moment when we can really take advantage of the experiences of each other. And since as you say --

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GORANI: There is a bit of a delay here with this new Skype interview model here. But what I found fascinating is you list pretty much every single

thing that makes life, your relationships, when you eat, what you eat, how you sleep.

One of the things you write is, first you'll eat, you'll join groups, have an unstoppable online social life. Old resentments and falling outs will

seem irrelevant. It is almost as if you are kind of almost taking stock of your life because you're facing some great tragedy or an illness or

something like that where everything becomes clearer, right?

Tell us about your experience.

MELANDRI: Yes. It is exactly how you put it. It is like when people have, you know, big accidents or big illness. The difference is that this is now

happening on a global scale, on a collective scale. So it is -- it is a moment of fear, of course, and worry but it's also a moment of pause, when

you suddenly priorities are extremely clear.

[10:55:00]

MELANDRI: You really know what you're missing, what you do not need. It is very clear.

(CROSSTALK)

GORANI: One thing you told my producer is what you missed the most are your kids.

Your kids are grown, I presume?

MELANDRI: Right. They are abroad. One is in France. And the other is in Germany. And, you know, we're used to thinking of Europe as basically now

almost one country, no borders more or less.

And suddenly this distance, with cheap flights and so on, nothing to be taken into consideration, now this distance exists again. This is something

we're not used to. We are not used to -- not being able to hug each other.

GORANI: Yes. And one of the things you wrote, the true nature of the people around you will be revealed with total clarity. You will have

confirmations and also some surprises.

MELANDRI: Yes. This is what crises do. This is what emergencies do, when people show who they really are. I must say in I must say in general I was

surprised how mostly well people are taking it well.

It is really hard being home and for many people it is losing their jobs and having serious practical and economical problems. But in general, the -

- I don't know, civic sense that is being, you know, shown everywhere almost by everyone is something that has been quite amazing and nobody

imagined it. So you have surprises.

(CROSSTALK)

GORANI: Certainly -- you have also confirmation, thankfully at least, of what you thought people were -- of what they meant to you. It is not all

bad surprises. Thank you so much, Francesca Melandri, joining us from Rome.

I urge our viewers to check your column out in "The Guardian," first sentence, "I'm writing to you from Italy, I am writing from your future."

I urge everyone to check it out. Thank you very much for joining us.

I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time. We're going to take a quick break on CNN and we'll be right back with a lot more. Do stay with us.

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