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Coronavirus-Stricken Cruise Ships Set to Arrive Off Florida Coast; Florida Governor Issues Statewide Stay-at-Home Order After Intense Pressure; Ninety Percent of Americans Told to Stay Home as Death Toll Tops 5,000; Record 6.6 Million Americans Filed Jobless Claims Last Week; Dire Need for Medical Supplies in New York Continues. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 02, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:49]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, goodness, this is a tough day. Record shattering. Just devastating numbers for the U.S. economy.

Good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. I wish we could bring you better news but we have just learned that 6.6 million Americans filed for unemployment benefits last week. That is twice the number from just a week before. And it shatters all records. No doubt these are all people that we know that touch our lives in one way or another.

SCIUTTO: And many of you watching, I'm sure, 10 million people, Americans with families in just two weeks.

With us now, Christine Romans, she's CNN chief business correspondent, and Austan Goolsbee, he's former chairman for the Council of Economic Advisers during the Obama administration.

Christine, just first to you, put this into some historical context here because this country did not see this even in the depths of the 2008 financial crisis, and at least statistically not even weeks like this during the Depression.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: There is no historical precedent for it. I mean, it just hasn't happened. We pushed the pause button on the American economy and all of these people are rushing to get unemployment benefits, 10 million people in just a couple of weeks. I mean, you can't even really put it on a chart because it just has completely distorted these numbers.

People are rushing to file for unemployment benefits because they've either been laid off or they've been furloughed, and under these new rules, if you are furloughed, you can keep your healthcare through your company, you sort of stay on the books for your company, but you go off and you get unemployment benefits so the government is paying your pay. And so that's one reason these numbers are just so big. The difference between last week and this week, I think, is striking.

Last week it was a lot of retail workers. It was a lot of people in hospitality industry, hotels, who were losing their jobs. This week the Department of Labor says it's just about every corner of the economy, including healthcare seeing some layoffs and furloughs, warehousing, manufacturing, retail. Just about every part of the economy is seeing layoffs here.

HARLOW: Austan, this is unchartered territory. Again even you guys didn't go through this at the depths of the Great Recession. We heard Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin just on Sunday say that this economy will, quote, "bounce back with very large GDP numbers and low unemployment, back to where we were beforehand," and he says that is going to happen in the third quarter of this year.

Is that possible? That we could be back to good times in the third quarter given these numbers?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL ON ECONOMIC ADVISERS: I don't know. I hope that that's true. This is stunningly awful. There's never been a number like this before last week. This number today is 10 times bigger than the biggest week of unemployment that we've ever had. Now that said, the one thing that the secretary is noting is that this is different than big increases in unemployment filings that come from a regular recession because the relationship, let's call it, between the employers and the employees is not broken.

And so if we can get control of the spread of this virus, there is the possibility that this could rebound faster than it does in a normal recession. If we let this temporary thing spiral into something permanent, then does this week's number say that permanent thing would be quite awful.

SCIUTTO: Austan, how much of the whole does the stimulus package, while very large and record-breaking in its own right, $2 trillion, how much of the whole does that fill?

GOOLSBEE: In a way, none. This isn't really a stimulus package that's meant to fill a hole and rebound the GDP. It's almost literally just the heat went out or we're going to burn this money to keep warm until we can get the furnace back going, and so I think people better think about that. It's why I keep saying that the number one rule of virus economics is that you have to deal with the virus before you can fix the economics.

In this, and we can go to whatever phase they want to call it, phase four, phase two, stimulus can't work unless people can get out of lockdown.

[09:05:04]

And we can't get out of lockdown until we slow the spread of the virus.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOOLSBEE: It's as simple as that.

HARLOW: Tragic number. Christine, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Sobering.

HARLOW: Austan Goolsbee, we appreciate it very much.

Also on the health front here, we are now learning this disease, if you can believe it, can spread not just by coughing or even sneezing, but apparently by breathing. Experts are now warning the White House that you can also spread coronavirus just by talking and those droplets staying in the air.

This is stunning development as hospitals and first responders face critical supply shortages and the president confirms the national stockpile of medical supplies is running low. The last shipment of protective gear already being sent out as medical workers are forced to re-use masks and gloves as they treat coronavirus patients.

SCIUTTO: Now they're talking about telling all of us to wear masks. Is that possible? All this as we barrel toward a peak that could still be weeks away. New high of 946 deaths recorded just yesterday, our of more than 5,000 deaths overall. 90 percent of the country has now been ordered to stay at home as more governors, Republican or Democrat, impose statewide closures.

Let's begin with CNN national correspondent Brynn Gingras in what has been the epicenter of this, but --

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: But may not be alone for long in New York. Tell us what the latest is there.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, and that's what the governor has been saying, Poppy and Jim, is what's happening here could happen in your neighborhood as well. Yes, the numbers just keep going up here. We're now starting to see people being hospitalized in those makeshift overflow hospitals like the Comfort, like the Javits Center, like the Central Park makeshift hospital there. But these hospitals are still so strained.

I want to show you some video that we have of Dr. Matthew Bayh from Mt. Sinai. He's an ER doctor who did his own video diary, taking us all inside that particular emergency room, and the video really just shows, again, the strain, the numbers of people that are coming in, whether it be for oxygen, whether they need more to get on a ventilator, whether they just need care.

That doctor in that diary described how on that particular morning that he was filming this, he said good-bye to his family. His 17- month-old daughter and his wife, he didn't know when he was going to see them again because they were too scared for him to come back home after he does all of his shifts.

And I just can't even imagine that emotional feeling. And so it's the supplies that -- these are who the supplies are for, right? These are who everyone is fighting for, these supplies for. The mayor here in New York City says by Sunday that's really going to be a D-Day. Next week he says they're going to need more than three million N-95 masks. They're going to need 400, at least, ventilators to be coming into the state to help with this demand that is just not slowing down at this point.

And in fact, guys, he actually even appointed a very familiar face to New York City, the former NYPD commissioner James O'Neill to be the supplies czar. And essentially his new job is to get all of the supplies into the state and disperse them to where the needs are greatest, which at this point right now, guys, is pretty much everywhere.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: My goodness. It really is. Brynn, thank you very much.

Let's talk about all these stunning developments, Dr. Celine Gounder is back with us this morning. She's our medical analyst and clinical assistant professor of Medicine and Infectious Diseases here at NYU.

The fact that the White House has now been advised that this can be spread through breathing and that even particles can remain in the air and you can walk by them and you're susceptible.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: So, you may have heard, Poppy, that the CDC is considering whether to recommend that all Americans, the general public, wear some sort of nose and mouth covering while outside. And the idea here, and just to be very clear, the idea is not that you would be protecting yourself. It's that you may be one of those people who has the virus, who doesn't have symptoms, or has very mild symptoms and you don't know that you're spreading to others.

So the idea here is if you wear a bandanna or a scarf over your nose and mouth, you're preventing spread to others and that's really essential right now because the asymptomatic, mildly symptomatic group, sounds -- seems to be a big proportion of what is driving this spread here.

SCIUTTO: And that's important you mentioned sort of a cloth mask or a bandanna, right? Because it sounds like that's what they're talking about because of course there's such a shortage of the N-95 masks.

HARLOW: Yes. Yes.

SCIUTTO: Essential for healthcare workers. I want to ask you about testing here. Last hour we learned the FDA has issued its first emergency use authorization for an antibody test, looks for antibodies to this in the blood, which would be a signal of exposure. What can you tell us about the test and how this can help in -- going forward in terms of treating people but also seeing how people react to this?

GOUNDER: So the antibody test would help us figure out who has already had the infection, who may have already recovered. [09:10:03]

You know, there's probably a number of people back in January, February, who had no idea that they had it, and they in fact be immune now. And we really would like to know who's immune, because those are people who, for example, in the hospital, would be lower risk and who may not need as much protective equipment and these are also people that in the community could be providing essential services at lower risk to themselves.

So, you know, there's been discussion, should we put young healthy people back to work? That's a bit of a crude measure, but having the antibody information would be probably a safer way to make that determination.

SCIUTTO: It's a great point.

HARLOW: Yes, it is. Can we just spend a moment talking about children? Because I think every single parent out there is hanging on every word as we learn more about the impact on children. Here you had a six- week-old who died in Connecticut. Post-mortem diagnosed with COVID-19. And then there is right now a 12-year-old in Atlanta on a ventilator, someone who had no pre-existing conditions. We hear she's doing well.

But, you know, I had -- we had understood, Jim and I, that essentially children were not really getting this, and certainly not dying and not having to be on ventilators. Has that changed?

GOUNDER: Well, they're certainly at lower risk than, say, the elderly. There was a study that was published in pediatrics a couple of weeks ago now out of China looking at children, and it does seem like there is an elevated risk for children, especially under the age of 5. It's not as high as for the elderly to have severe disease, but there is an increased risk.

SCIUTTO: One more question, if I can, just about the scope here, "Wall Street Journal" reporting a study they did of Italy and of course Vice President Mike Pence said yesterday the U.S. experience might look like Italy, that Italy, even with the enormous death toll there, that there might be a lot of undercounting, particularly among the aged, people who are dying who are not tested, and may very well have died from this as well.

Is that a genuine concern that -- talked a lot about China underestimating the death toll there, deliberately. Is it possible we don't quite know the true fatality rate from this?

GOUNDER: I think undercounting is the big sort of key story of this entire pandemic, that we have been undercounting infections, we've been undercounting probably some of the deaths as well. And to go back to the question about antibodies, that will help us get a better handle at least on what proportion of the population has been infected. And then that will allow us to better estimate what is the actual risk of death if you get this.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Gounder, so good to have you running through this. Just every day there are so many questions. I know our viewers appreciate it as well.

Well, just a reminder to you, be sure to join Anderson Cooper and another doctor you might know, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, for a new CNN global town hall, "CORONAVIRUS: FACTS AND FEARS." You get a lot of your questions answered there. It airs live tonight 8:00 Eastern Time only on CNN.

HARLOW: Still to come, there are two cruise ships right now sitting off the coast of Florida, hundreds of sick passengers. Will the state let them dock? We have an update for you.

And as of today, 12 states have actually not issued stay-at-home orders. What are they waiting for?

SCIUTTO: And why is Dr. Anthony Fauci, the man who has kept all of us informed during this crisis, now, if you can believe it, receiving death threats? It's just remarkable. It's sad. We'll tell you more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Welcome back, this just in to CNN. The Broward County commissioner says that a conditional plan has been reached for two cruise ships at dock -- to dock at the Port Everglades, they're both supposed to arrive today, but the fact is the governor may still agree with that, a fierce battle under way. We're going to see how that pans out. Hundreds of people on board that ship.

According to Holland America, between the two ships, there are more than 200 sick passengers and four people on those ships have died. Joining us now, Florida Democratic Congresswoman Donna Shalala, she also once served as a Health and Human Services Secretary under President Clinton. Congresswoman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

REP. DONNA SHALALA (D-FL): You're welcome.

SCIUTTO: So, let's talk about these ships here, still a dispute, it appears, under way. Is it humane to prevent those passengers? Many of whom are Americans, but many of whom are sick as well from coming ashore?

SHALALA: It is more than humane to allow them to come. It's immoral not to let them come. We need a plan, a healthcare plan, obviously to protect the citizens on the ground and make sure that we test everyone, put them in isolation if necessary. Look, the British, the Germans, no one in the world is turning away Americans if they have coronavirus in their countries.

We have to admit them, the sickest ones need to go to our hospitals, and, of course, the hospitals are crowded. But we Americans don't turn people away. We did once, and to our shame, we turned Jewish refugees, desperate Jewish refugees away, we turned those ships away from New York. We will never recover from that shame, and in this case, must let people in and we must take care of them.

But we must have a plan and the coast guard, along with others, have organized a plan to take care of people and to get them off these ships. And I don't care whether they're Florida residents or whether they're not --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SHALALA: They're human beings.

SCIUTTO: Yes, the Florida governor, as you know, delayed, but now has finally given in to pressures to declare -- to issue a statewide stay- at-home order. Did his delay cost lives in Florida?

[09:20:00]

SHALALA: It absolutely did. It's tragic. I don't know why people run for office if they're not willing to make hard decisions. And our governor delayed and delayed until he waited for the president of the United States to pick up the phone and call him. This is about saving lives. And he has a responsibility in Florida to save lives.

And he diddled and dawdled, and our mayors took stronger stands than he did, but he had a responsibility. And even when he put out the order, he left the gun shops open and he told people they could go to religious services. No one in south Florida believes that you should go to church. In fact, our Bishop of the Catholic Church has said, we'll do virtual church. So --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SHALALA: Again, he's fine-tuned the decision in a way in which people are going to still be exposed. We need strong --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SHALALA: Governors across the country.

SCIUTTO: Florida, of course, has a large senior population. One in five people in Florida, 65 or older, given that, that is the highest risk population for coronavirus, is Florida bracing for -- should it prepare for a spike in hospitalizations --

SHALALA: Yes --

SCIUTTO: And victims?

SHALALA: We're going to have a tremendous spike in Florida, but not just seniors. People that have underlying conditions. As we test more people, as more people unfortunately and tragically die, we're finding not just the senior population, but people that have underlying health conditions of all ages. And our testing by the way is picking up people of all ages, not just seniors.

But certainly, we need to target our resources at those that are the most vulnerable. And that's what we're trying to do to the extent we can get resources, but that's where the governor needs to be strong. Apparently, he has a special relationship with the president. He's getting some resources, but we don't have enough and we still have healthcare workers that are at risk.

SCIUTTO: As you know, the Trump administration, after initially considering it, has now blocked new enrollment periods for Obamacare. As you know, a lot of people aren't insured, and a lot of people as they lose their jobs, are losing healthcare insurance. What difference does that make in this crisis?

SHALALA: Well, it certainly does. We want people to be able to go to the hospitals. Our hospitals are at risk here. They've put off a set of surgeries that they can't put off for a period of time. So their income is down. But we need people to have good coverage. We did not in any of these bills, take care of people who have lousy health insurance or don't have health insurance.

So not expanding health insurance is a real problem for the healthcare system in this country. The president -- there was no reason to do that nor was there any reason to tell seniors and the disabled of this country that you can't get your $1,200 check unless you fill out some form, some tax form. That's ridiculous.

The president doesn't seem to have a sensitivity to the most vulnerable people. And the rest of us and Congress in a bipartisan manner has certainly -- has demonstrated some of that sensitivity. But we need clear, strong leadership on these very important issues.

SCIUTTO: The administration I believe may have backed down on the tax form filing, but certainly not on the Obamacare enrollment period. Congresswoman Donna Shalala, so good to have you, we wish you and your family the best of luck.

SHALALA: Thank you.

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Well, how you know, it's been pretty hard to get a coronavirus test for many people, and may even be harder to get the results for some. Pretty stunning news this morning that one big lab company says it's working through a backlog of 160,000 tests from more than a week ago.

We're also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Obviously, investors are going to react to the stunning economic news about all of those unemployment claims. The Dow is set to dip at the open after the government said 6.6 million Americans filed for unemployment benefits for the first time last week alone.

When you add that to the week before, it means 10 million Americans reached out in just two weeks for unemployment help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:00]

HARLOW: Healthcare labs across the country struggling to keep track of the spread of coronavirus. One of the nation's largest commercial labs is facing a backlog of tests that ballooned in the last two weeks.

SCIUTTO: Yes, remember all the promises about millions of tests being available immediately? The turnaround time for results in this case could take as long as seven days. CNN's Drew Griffin has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll be doing similar things --

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was just two weeks ago.

TRUMP: And today we're announcing a new partnership with private sector to vastly increase and accelerate our capacity to test for the coronavirus.

GRIFFIN: Big commercial labs coming to the rescue of a floundering coronavirus testing plan, but within a week of the president's major Rose Garden announcement, internal documents obtained by CNN from one of the nation's largest clinical laboratories expose huge backlogs, results delayed up to 10 days, and demand outstripping the lab's ability to process tests.

Data from those documents show on March 25th, last Wednesday.

END