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Cuomo Prime Time
New York Sees Coronavirus Curve "Bending," But Deaths Soaring; Sanders Drops Out Of 2020 Race, Clearing Path For Biden; NY Doctor Who Recovered From Coronavirus Returns To Hard-Hit Hospital To Treat More Patients. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 08, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: --and we all need it. The surgery took place couple days ago, and was successful. Neither Zach nor his uncle have the virus. You're looking at Zach with his thumbs up and the doctor who performed that operation. Some good news to end on!
The news continues right now. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris, how're you feeling?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Coop, better than I deserve. I wish you and everybody else out there a very sweet Passover.
I think it's going to have special meaning for all of us now. We got to count our blessings. And yes, we know what it's like to hope that a very evil spirit passes us by, because that's what we're dealing with right now.
But I am still better than I deserve. My brother, be well, always great to see you.
I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
New York has once again reported its deadliest day. That's two days in a row of deadliest days. And yet again, this context of potential good news in that, not in death, but in what it suggests about flattening of the curve, as reported by the Governor of New York.
So, tonight, we have that man, the Governor of New York will join us. We'll talk to him about the realities with Coronavirus in his own State. And while we have him, let's get a take on this new information about our President's planning.
And what does it mean that Bernie Sanders is out of the race? What does it mean to this Governor that Bernie Sanders is out of the race, his personal political fortunes? It's worth asking, right?
We're also hearing from the White House on where the next hotspots could be. That's an open question.
Here's what we know right now. No matter where the virus goes, the way to stop it will always be the same, our collective conscientious actions, staying home.
Like I said, it is a special night. A sweet Passover to my Jewish brothers and sisters. Together, as ever, as one, as Mishpocha, let's get after it.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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C. CUOMO: All right, here are the answers to the where's next, Philadelphia, Washington D.C. We understand that the White House Task Force is monitoring those two major metropolitan areas closely, why, because they are major metropolitan areas.
That means that you're going to have travel hubs and density. And when you have that, this virus will spread if people aren't maniacal in their commitment to keep it from happening. The equation has gotten as simple to understand as that.
What happens when you don't do it? Look at New York. 779 more precious lives lost in just the last 24 hours. What is the reality of what these numbers mean for New York today, beyond? There's lots to cover with the Governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo.
I wish you a blessed Pesach, Governor.
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Happy Passover to you, brother. Next year in Jerusalem, right?
C. CUOMO: That's right. That's - that is the hope. And certainly, it's going to really resound with people differently this year. A lot of people are doing Zoom Seders because they can't be in close contact.
What is your message? You know, you - when you and I say "Our Jewish brothers and sisters," we mean it, you know. We have Jews in our family. We have Jews in our blood, in our nieces.
What is the message to the faithful this year about what Passover means?
A. CUOMO: Well I think it is - the message of Passover resonates totally, right? The first part is to learn the lessons from the past, to pass them on to a new generation, to make sure we remember what we learned.
And then the second part of the message is a message of hope. It can be better. It will be better next year.
I have to tell you, so many people, everyone I talk to, whether they like me, dislike me, they're all concerned about you, and they all send you best wishes.
And they're all - they all respect the guts that you've shown here, televising as you're going through this, and getting the message out, and that's - that's universal. So, we're all proud of you.
C. CUOMO: Good. I'm glad. I'm glad that it's helping people, make them feel that this isn't a boogeyman that they can't beat. And the little tips that I'm learning, if it helps somebody, then it was all worth it. There's got to be a purpose to the pain.
A. CUOMO: Sure.
C. CUOMO: Let me ask you something about purpose to pain. It is hard for people to get, Andrew that seeing a lot of people die can mean something better is coming. How do you sell that message?
A. CUOMO: Yes, you don't. It's hard for me - it's hard for me to hear it. I said I'd do these daily press briefings to give - go through the facts because I think more than anything people want information.
They don't want political spin. They don't want a lot of garbage. They just want the facts. So, I do these briefings that give people the facts. I had trouble today, I'll tell you the truth, Chris, because talk about mixed emotions, good news, bad news.
Good news, the curve is flattening, if - if we are still conscientious because we are flattening the curve. That's the good news. We can flatten the curve.
[21:05:00]
Bad news, record number of deaths, 779, we're up to 6,268 deaths, Chris. The 9/11 was 2,700 deaths, just to give you an idea of where we are.
So, yes, you have this theoretical good news, that flattening of the curve and the worst news that you could possibly have with the record number of deaths.
You know, how do you hold both of those emotions at the same time? So look, it's an emotional time. It's a stressful time for everyone. It's not going to get better anytime soon. That's the truth, the plain truth.
And it depends on what we do. It is our actions that is flattening the curve. Why were all those projections wrong? Because our actions have been better than the statisticians believed.
So, we can flatten the curve. We are flattening the curve. We have to maintain it. But the human cost here, the human toll, the suffering, is just incredible. It's just incredible.
C. CUOMO: And look, people know it's not going to end anytime soon. That's why, you know, I tell you I think you're right to play it straight with them. I think it's better to give people the straight information.
Now, media coverage is going to look and see how we got here.
You and the Mayor have been cited in New York for catching on slowly here. And that is something that they don't just talk about you guys, but that you are part of the mix of politicians who waited too long.
With the benefit of hindsight, do you agree with that criticism?
A. CUOMO: Look, in these situations, Chris, they're going to criticize you whichever way you go, right?
I've been through too many emergencies, too many disasters. If you take a lot of action, and then the storm doesn't come, they say "You were overcautious, over-preventative." So, they'll - they'll second- guess any decision.
That's what the quote-unquote, some of you guys in the media like to do, right? First thing I say to you is look in a mirror before you open your mouth, right? So, before you want to talk about what others did, what did you do and when did you do it?
Second, you're not going to be able to find a State in the United States of America that moved faster than New York State. We had our first case, 15 days later, I closed the schools. Nobody had called for that. 19 days later, I closed down the State.
When you close down New York, you - you're closing down one of the economic engines on this globe. And no State did that faster than we did it. As a matter of fact, I took a lot of heat for moving as fast as I did.
Now they want to say, "Oh Governor, maybe you did too many. You were too prepared. Maybe you didn't need to do everything you did." You know, they're going to do that game all day long.
But look, I react to numbers, and data, and science. We are looking at projections and models by experts who analyze this data. And I follow the data, right? This is not about what I think politically or what I think because I think really I'm a doctor. I just followed the data, and that's what we did.
C. CUOMO: I'm just smiling because in the Control Room, they just said "You have like three minutes left." And I was like "My brother takes five minutes to say hello. You think I'm going to be done with this interview in three minutes?"
A. CUOMO: Yes, well.
C. CUOMO: "Who's got the fever?" Who's got the fever tonight? The Control Room got the fever.
A. CUOMO: Well--
C. CUOMO: Just so you know, on the side, I will--
A. CUOMO: Who control - who controls - who controls the shows?
C. CUOMO: Listen.
A. CUOMO: You or the Control Room controls the show?
C. CUOMO: Here's what I'll tell you.
A. CUOMO: Yes, I'm just curious.
C. CUOMO: In three minutes, we're not going to be done.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: I'm just telling you that right now. If anybody's sitting back, enjoying family right now--
A. CUOMO: All right. Well I--
C. CUOMO: --kickback, we're not going anywhere. But let me ask you this.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: What - I'm--
A. CUOMO: I have a Zoom Seder that I have to get to.
C. CUOMO: I'm sure we all do, right? Well actually I didn't get invited to any. No surprise! I will buy you lunch--
A. CUOMO: Well you're dressed or it.
C. CUOMO: --for every time that you can show me one piece that showed you were too prepared for the pandemic, OK? Any piece you can show me that says--
A. CUOMO: A dime?
C. CUOMO: --"Cuomo, you were - you were too prepared for this pandemic. You did too much too soon."
A. CUOMO: Oh. What is the wager?
C. CUOMO: I don't think you'll find any piece like that.
A. CUOMO: What is the wager?
C. CUOMO: Whatever you want.
A. CUOMO: What is the wager?
C. CUOMO: That you were too prepared. You did too much--
A. CUOMO: Oh really?
C. CUOMO: --too fast. Yes.
A. CUOMO: That compared to the projections that the actuality never came--
C. CUOMO: I'll give you any context you want.
A. CUOMO: --to the projections that we were following.
C. CUOMO: Well--
A. CUOMO: Go ahead. OK.
C. CUOMO: Look, that's a separate question that--
A. CUOMO: Bring money.
C. CUOMO: --I hope you're right about.
A. CUOMO: Bring money.
C. CUOMO: I think you got to prepare more than the actual numbers. You're right about that all day. This is the segue point.
The President says "Here's how you lead well. I'm not going to tell you these bad what-ifs. I'm a cheerleader, baby. I'm a leader for this country."
Why aren't you more like the President that way? Instead of telling people it could be this, it could be that, yes, you could be wrong, just avoid it all, don't fill their heads with these ugly potentials.
[21:10:00]
A. CUOMO: Look, this is not - there's a time and place for everything, right?
And there's going to be a discussion about who did what when, who should have done what when, where were - where were the whistleblowers, where was the people who were supposed to be blowing the bugle on this global pandemic, which, by the way, started in like November, December, in China, right?
C. CUOMO: Yes. And maybe here too--
A. CUOMO: And there'll be a discussion why didn't anyone blow a bugle--
C. CUOMO: --all the cases we're hearing about.
A. CUOMO: Yes. That's - that's exactly right. And, you know, state and local governments, we're not in charge of global pandemics, right? That's not in our job description.
C. CUOMO: Right.
A. CUOMO: Where were the World Health Organizations et cetera? Where were the media? Where were all those great scientific minds being interviewed?
So, anyway, they'll do that. Is the - President is cheerleader? Look, I'm an advocate for my State. I'm a cheerleader for my State also. Maybe not a cheerleader, but I'm a promoter of my State. But in a situation like this, I think it's about - it's about the facts, right? Sometimes it's just about the facts and doing what you have to do for with the facts. I don't think there's a positive spin or a negative spin on facts. And that's what we followed in this situation.
C. CUOMO: I don't disagree that following the facts is the right thing, especially the more serious the situation is, you got to trust the people to do the right thing with the information. I just don't see how it gives real optimism to give them hollow hope.
Now, you know, I've seen you referred to a little bit recently as the "Love Gov." And I'm wondering if that's bleeding into your demeanor at all and making you a little soft on the President that you don't want to really criticize him because you need him and now's not a time for fighting.
But don't you have to balance that with calling him out, if he's doing things that you don't think are great for the people of your State to be hearing and experiencing? Love Gov?
A. CUOMO: I've always - I've always been a soft guy. I am the Love Gov. I'm a cool dude in loose mood, you know that. I just say, let it go, just go with the flow, baby, you know. You can't control anything, so don't even try.
C. CUOMO: You've never said any of those things.
A. CUOMO: Water off a duck's back. That's me.
C. CUOMO: It's the first time you've said any of those.
A. CUOMO: No, yes, I think I have. Really? Yes, well.
C. CUOMO: Never said any of those.
A. CUOMO: Look, I have to--
C. CUOMO: I've known you my whole life.
A. CUOMO: Yes, all right, well that's your opinion. Yes. Well you should listen better. Listening works. It's not always talking.
C. CUOMO: What?
A. CUOMO: What was the question? Oh, I remember the question. Look, I am in a situation--
C. CUOMO: You're soft on the President. Why?
A. CUOMO: Yes. Well that's your characterization, first of all, I say. You don't state it as a question, because you have a characterization in there that is a premise. I am working with the President, cooperatively.
C. CUOMO: OK. A. CUOMO: It's very important that the federal government and state government work together during this time. I have to do my best job for the people of this State.
You cannot say, look, I've been the Governor, in this country, who's been the most critical of the President up until now. And, by the way, there's no Governor that he's been more critical of than me. So, nobody's going to say I've gone too soft on the President.
We're working together to help the State. That's what's important now, no politics, no personality, no ego, no ego. It's not about you. It's not about me. It's about we, and getting through this, and that's my singular focus.
There will be a day and a time for everything. But this is not the time and place. Capeesh?
C. CUOMO: Good. Yes, Capeesh. Capeesh. The - Bernie Sanders is out. The word is that this increases the chances--
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: --with Senator Sanders out, that you may get it in the - in the race for President. Is that true?
A. CUOMO: Is that the word? Well, then it must be true, if that's the word.
C. CUOMO: That's the word on the street.
A. CUOMO: Right.
C. CUOMO: Is that - oh, is that a yes? I'm sorry. I didn't hear an answer.
A. CUOMO: Oh, the word on the street? Well then it's true.
C. CUOMO: Was it responsive? You're not responsive.
A. CUOMO: I'm just saying if that's the word, who am I to argue with the word?
C. CUOMO: Word.
A. CUOMO: Right?
C. CUOMO: So, then you - the Senator leaving the race--
A. CUOMO: Yes. That's who - well--
C. CUOMO: --has changed your thinking? Is that what you're saying, Governor?
A. CUOMO: Has the Senator's leaving the race changed my thinking? In what way?
C. CUOMO: Are you now giving different consideration to running for President?
A. CUOMO: No. But it was a good question.
C. CUOMO: So, you are still not thinking?
A. CUOMO: But why?
C. CUOMO: It's definitely a good question. Is it because that--
A. CUOMO: Well I am thinking. I'm a thinking being. I'm thinking about a lot of things.
C. CUOMO: Yes. I bet.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: Is it - are you not thinking about running for President because now there's more political momentum around the idea of you accepting a Vice Presidential bid from Joe Biden? Is that something that you're considering?
A. CUOMO: First of all, I'm glad to see you're feeling better. I can tell you're feeling better, because--
C. CUOMO: Time is precious.
A. CUOMO: --your - your animation and - yes, I know.
C. CUOMO: Answer whenever you like.
A. CUOMO: Joe Biden is - Joe Biden is a personal friend of mine. I've worked with him. He's been a great friend to this State. I support him. I have for years. And he's going to be, I believe, an excellent Democratic candidate and a leader.
[21:15:00]
Second, I have said repeatedly my plans. When I said I wanted to run for Governor, I said to the people of my State, "I will serve as your Governor." People asked me, "Well, will you run for President," I said "No."
I'm not that guy, Chris. I'm not that politician who says, "Yes, I want to - it's all about me and next step on the ladder."
C. CUOMO: Even if your Party's jumping up and down--
A. CUOMO: That's what turns people off. I'm going to be true to my word.
C. CUOMO: --with signs at a Digital Convention and they call you and say--
A. CUOMO: They can - yes, they can jump up and down.
C. CUOMO: --"We need you, Love Gov." A. CUOMO: Yes. Love Gov says no way. I gave my word and my word is good. I'm not your typical guy. Don't laugh. You're going to pay, Chris. One day, you're going to be better. And then--
C. CUOMO: I hope.
A. CUOMO: --we'll have a discussion. But in the meantime, I'm not running.
C. CUOMO: All right, look, I just want to ask the question. So, for right now, it's a no.
A. CUOMO: I'm not going to be Vice President.
C. CUOMO: You're not - or VP.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: VP either? No VP, no P?
A. CUOMO: What does VP stand for? Very something?
C. CUOMO: Vice President, Sir.
A. CUOMO: Principled? Oh, no.
C. CUOMO: Vice - yes, Very--
A. CUOMO: Not if that's what it stands for, yes.
C. CUOMO: So, neither one. All right good.
A. CUOMO: Yes, no, OK.
C. CUOMO: Now, there's an important campaign you are pushing for people right now--
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: --called Stay Home and who you are staying home for? It's a good idea. It's a good way to connect, the personal commitment of what they're doing.
My decision is, and as I posted today, very early before anybody else responded to the call that you put out, I'm staying home for my mother. Because I love her and at her age, she's uniquely vulnerable to the virus and that's why making the move out of the house that Cristina and I made was a 100 percent our own and we did it early.
Who are you staying home for? Because I'm staying home for my mom.
A. CUOMO: Yes. The whole campaign is dedicated to my mother. And I said that first thing this morning when I posted my picture.
C. CUOMO: I never - I didn't hear you say anything.
A. CUOMO: Stay at home for who you're staying at home for? Yes. My mother.
C. CUOMO: You're right. You're an example.
A. CUOMO: My mother. My mother. I'm staying home--
C. CUOMO: Oh, you're staying home for your mom, too?
A. CUOMO: --for my mother.
C. CUOMO: Isn't that weird though after I just said it?
A. CUOMO: No. I went first. I had my picture at my press conference--
C. CUOMO: Really?
A. CUOMO: --saying I'm doing it for my mother. And - yes, because it's a point that I want people to understand.
C. CUOMO: But - but you're there (ph)--
A. CUOMO: If you don't want to stay home for yourself then--
C. CUOMO: --with mom right now.
A. CUOMO: Yes. Well I had my picture this morning while you were still sleeping and I showed it at my press conference.
C. CUOMO: Oh!
A. CUOMO: And people have to understand, you want to be reckless with your own life, don't endanger others. And that's what the Stay-at- home-for campaign is all about.
C. CUOMO: Beautiful.
A. CUOMO: Don't endanger healthcare workers.
C. CUOMO: I love it.
A. CUOMO: Don't engage in - endanger vulnerable people.
C. CUOMO: I love it, and - and literally people who are saving our lives--
A. CUOMO: And she was my mother first, by the way.
C. CUOMO: That is true. That one you win, that point.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: A 100 Percent. You were born first.
A. CUOMO: Yes. Thank you.
C. CUOMO: And the healthcare workers are begging us to do this for them, and I love the idea of the campaign. So I'm shifting my answer. You can have it. You can have mom because that's, you know, what the bigger person does.
I'm going to stay at home for these two guys. Here's my new choice. I'm staying home for these guys. Put up the picture. That's what I'm queuing right now. Put up the picture.
Yes. I'm staying home for these two guys in the front. You know why? Can you see the picture?
A. CUOMO: All right. No I can't see it.
C. CUOMO: Can you - you can see it.
A. CUOMO: I can't see it.
C. CUOMO: So I'm staying--
A. CUOMO: No, I can't see it.
C. CUOMO: --I'm staying home for these two guys. Oh, you can see it.
A. CUOMO: I can't see it.
C. CUOMO: So, there's you and one of your--
A. CUOMO: Yes, I can't see it.
C. CUOMO: --signature Huckapoo shirt.
A. CUOMO: Bye, Chris.
C. CUOMO: Oh, no, no. Don't you do it.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: Put the microphone back on.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: Don't be like that. And don't hold it in your hand--
A. CUOMO: No. No.
C. CUOMO: --because the hand swallows up the whole microphone.
A. CUOMO: Take that picture down.
C. CUOMO: I can't get any sound out of it. Put it back up.
A. CUOMO: Take the picture down.
C. CUOMO: Put it back up. There he is, and here's why I'm doing it for these guys, because this is the guy who helped me shape who I am today. Look how I was looking at him so lovingly back then.
I know it looks like I'm just staring at his diamond crusted belt buckle, but I'm not. I'm actually staring up at the - the young man who made me so proud as his brother back then, and my Billy the Kids, and now.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: And just, if you want to tell people, Huckapoo was your signature look back then. You've abandoned it, why? Huckapoo.
A. CUOMO: There are no words. There are no words.
C. CUOMO: It's facts. Straight down the middle
A. CUOMO: That was not me.
C. CUOMO: Straight down the middle. Straight down the middle.
A. CUOMO: Three minutes is up. Three minutes is up.
C. CUOMO: Governor, it is good to remind people--
A. CUOMO: Yes, Sir.
C. CUOMO: --that they are just coming to love you now as much as I have my whole life, and it's because of your commitment to what you do for other people. It's what matters most to me about you.
A. CUOMO: Yes.
C. CUOMO: And I love you very much. Thank you for coming on this show. Thank you for keeping my spirits up, and thank you for what you're doing for the State.
[21:20:00]
A. CUOMO: Oh, I'd like to say it was my pleasure, but it wasn't.
C. CUOMO: Why? Come on. So--
A. CUOMO: We'll talk later. Have a good show. Have a good show.
C. CUOMO: I thought this was a fruitful conversation.
A. CUOMO: Bye.
C. CUOMO: Governor, thank you. I'll talk to you soon.
A. CUOMO: Bye. Thank you, right.
C. CUOMO: All right, that is the Governor of New York.
Several headlines there that as hard as it is to see the realities of us losing lives in this, what you have to do is believe that if we keep doing what we're doing, there'll be less pain, and that's why he started the campaign of Staying-at-home-for.
And as he said, he's staying at home for our mother. And the rest of us should be staying at home for our mothers, and the people that we love, and to keep us farther apart will ultimately bring us closer together in this cause.
All right, now the President keeps offering up different remedies now that he wants people to know about as what should be out there, "What do you have to lose?" Let's answer that question next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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[21:25:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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C. CUOMO: All right, so the President pushed this drug called Chloroquine, all right?
Now the American Heart Association and other cardiology groups are saying "Be careful." COVID patients could face potentially serious, those are their words, heart problems if treated with it.
Now, the President had been cautioned about making these kinds of recommendations. Nevertheless, here's what he said today.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: But they say zinc. I want to throw that out there, because that's where they seem to be having the best result. So, you add the zinc and the Azithromycin, and it's been - we've had a lot of good stories.
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C. CUOMO: Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now.
Doctor, how come you don't share the President's confidence? When you're a doctor you must know what he obviously is so confident in, being a doctor, that Chloroquine and - and Azithromycin, or people know as a Z-Pak, there are a lot of good anecdotal stories about people getting better from it.
Now, he's saying "Throw zinc in the mix. I've heard a lot of good stories from people about how they think zinc helped them."
What's wrong?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well look, I think that like everybody on the planet, Chris, we want to see some sort of therapy work. But it's - but it's got to be proven to work, Chris. And I think that's - these notes from the American Heart Association,
the Cardiology Association, and then this Heart Rhythm Association, they all, you know, were part of this letter that was sent, voicing their concern.
A small study, now all these studies are small, by the way, Chris, right now, because we're early days with regard to this stuff. So, we can't read into the studies that show benefit, and you can't really show too much of these studies that show the side effects.
But they raise this concern that this particular medication could cause a heart rhythm abnormality. So, in people who - who don't have a heart rhythm abnormality, it might cause one, and people who already have one, it might worsen it.
Now, we don't know how significant that is. I think the study was of some 80 people, and about 11 percent or so, eight or nine of them developed this problem. It wasn't necessarily a lethal problem. But it could be a potentially, you know, a significant problem for these patients. That's why you do the studies, Chris.
I - I don't think it has anything to do, frankly, with me being a doctor or not being a doctor. We don't know. I am not divinely given this information because I'm a doctor. I'd have to look at the studies just like anybody else would have to look at the studies. Right now, that data doesn't exist.
So, when - when these - these associations are throwing out caution, they're basically relying on a tenet that we all sort of think about, which is you don't want to do any harm. We don't know if this works.
There is a potential for harm here. Maybe it's a small potential. But there is a potential there. And wouldn't that be a real tragedy for somebody who did not get any benefit from the medication and yet had some kind of harm happen to them? That's why you do the studies. They're happening.
C. CUOMO: What about--
GUPTA: Hopefully we'll get results quickly.
C. CUOMO: What about this?
GUPTA: You and your brother were just talking about it.
C. CUOMO: Well look, I mean, you know, research only happens as quickly as it happens. But people are desperate right now. And all right, so fine, the heavy drugs, we'll put to the side for a second.
Zinc and all these different vitamin cocktails we're hearing about that, again, anecdotally you hear good things coming out from people and different people on the front-lines.
The President then says "Hey, I hear good things about zinc. I want to put it out there." GUPTA: Yes. There's - there's not, you know, with some of these supplements and things like that, I think the side effect profile is - is not concerning.
But if people are saying - are asking, does it work, because I think that's fundamentally what people are asking, we don't know. You know, you have to trial these things as well, as simple the therapeutic as they may be.
Also, you know, some of these supplements that people buy sometimes, and not necessarily picking on zinc, but sometimes people buy supplements, they don't always know what they're getting. It's a largely unregulated industry.
So, if you have a deficiency in something, if you're deficient in a particular vitamin, Vitamin D, then yes, a supplement may make sense. But if you're not, I don't think there's any proof that it's necessarily going to improve your - your course. You have to study that just like anything else.
Again, I think, especially when I look at you, Chris, I think, you know, and I have people who - who have this infection, I think of course you're - you're wanting something to be proven to work.
I get that. I mean I'm sure you think about that all the time. Speaking of which, how - how are you doing? I know you're not trying any of those things. But - but how are you doing? How - nights have been worse for you.
C. CUOMO: Right.
GUPTA: I know, in the past. Is that still the case?
[21:30:00]
C. CUOMO: Nights have been worse. Today, I am oddly spacey, and I don't know why, because guess what, on the night of Passover, I got good news that I think the worst of this is over for me. I know I just jinxed myself by saying that. But Cristina and I had smiles on our faces today.
My fever has been unusually low most of the day. Ordinarily, at this time, Doc, I am not faking that I'm baking. You know what I mean? It is - it is hot in here at this time of night. And, right now, I'm still--
GUPTA: Right.
C. CUOMO: --just a little bit above normal, so that's great news. I am really spacey, and I've been talking to my doctor before this about why that is, what that could mean.
I did not use the Chloroquine, why, because in investigating it for somebody with my particular health profile, what does that mean? Well there's certain drugs that it can interact with that I'm on, so I had to be careful about that. Also, it seems to be that with my symptomology that I am
immunosuppressed. And I therefore need things to boost my immune system.
The way, as you and others explained the drug to me that Chloroquine works is that it actually suppresses immune systems to reduce inflammation, which can work very well with malaria and lupus.
But that's not what I need. I need my immune system boosted, not artificially depressed to help with inflammation. So, it doesn't work for me, so I didn't think about trying it.
The other things I have been doing right now seem to be working well. I know I have a long way to go. But I have not felt as good as I do right now in a long time.
And I only think it's a little bit - a little bit because I just slapped Andrew around like a naughty child for 15 minutes. It was like I had like a fact paddle in my hand. Bing! Bing! So, it's a little bit that. But it's also because I'm getting healthier.
GUPTA: That - that's your therapy apparently, beating up on your big brother?
C. CUOMO: Oof! That was too easy! Too easy! So, I'm so--
GUPTA: Hey, look, I'm - I'm glad you're feeling better.
C. CUOMO: --I'm feeling better. But, you know, you got to take care of it.
GUPTA: You see - and just - just, you know, because I got to ask these questions. You and I talk on the phone all the time. But again, none of the tightness in the chest and - and those sorts of things. I know you got a chest X-ray, things like that.
C. CUOMO: My chest is tight.
GUPTA: But you're - all that--
C. CUOMO: My breath is short. It hurts in the morning.
I feel like I'm going to bring up a lot more than I do. I'm doing these breathing exercises that we've posted online. This beautiful doctor put them online. He learned them from a respiratory therapist.
And he shows it's the two sets of five, breathe and hold for five seconds, you know, you take in a breath, five seconds, breathe out. Do that five times. On the sixth one, you give yourself a big cough.
You do two cycles of that. You get onto your stomach, arch your back a little bit, most of your lung tissue is on your back, and do those breathing exercises again.
They're painful. They're unpleasant. They make me cough a lot. They make me short of breath. But I'm told that they're helping, and I feel like they're helping. So, I'm doing them five times a day.
GUPTA: I'm glad - glad to hear it, Chris.
I mean, you know, again, I - I talk to you, and I know you have these ups and downs. And - and I hope that this is a trajectory that just continues to improve. That's probably the best news I think I've heard from you in some time. But keep an eye on it, you know.
I mean as - as with the country, where we don't want to get complacent, it's easy to get complacent, because people see these numbers, and they think "Well the models don't look so bad," and I - I hope that the models continue to improve, in fact.
But part of the reason they're improving is because we haven't gotten complacent as a country. Most places have done pretty good job. I hope you don't do the same - I hope you don't get complacent as an individual too. I know it's hard. You're a workaholic. And--
C. CUOMO: I'll take - I'll take the good news where I find it.
GUPTA: --and I appreciate that about you. But taking - take it easy.
C. CUOMO: I know it's going to be a long--
GUPTA: Yes.
C. CUOMO: --I know it's going to be a long road. I know the fever can come back. I know this virus does that. I know people crash after "Up" periods. And you got to balance what you need for your emotional health in terms of how much optimism you take--
GUPTA: That's right.
C. CUOMO: --versus just trusting duration because even once I'm fever- free for 72 hours without Tylenol which, by the way, I have not been for more than four hours, OK, like I'm on Tylenol steady. So, I'm nowhere near where I need to be to even consider myself fever-free, then I have to quarantine for a couple of weeks--
GUPTA: Right.
C. CUOMO: --anyway. So, I'm not going anywhere anytime soon, and I know that. But today is a good day. All right, brother.
GUPTA: We'll know where to find you. You do - you do bring up a good point though, just for people who ask about this at home. I get a lot of questions about this about you, Chris.
72 hours without a fever, without any medications to bring the fever down, at least seven days since you - you developed your symptoms. Those are the sorts of things that you start looking for to possibly get yourself out of the basement.
And I know it's going to be a little while. But we'll be here with you, buddy.
[21:35:00]
C. CUOMO: And I still think it's crazy they - they don't retest people, especially healthcare workers before allowing them to go back to work. We've got to get better with our data information, and what we prioritize. Otherwise, we'll keep making the same stupid mistakes.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, you are a blessing. Thank you for being in my life.
GUPTA: We'll check in again soon. You got it.
C. CUOMO: All right.
All right, so you heard from my big brother, a little while ago. You just heard from another one of my big brothers from another mother.
Governors taking action across the country are not defined by political party in this. You're seeing leaders rise. It's not about Left and Right.
It's who's most reasonable in a situation, example, Ohio Republican Mike DeWine, all right? He is a Governor who showed key smart early leadership, OK? He is wearing a mask - he plans to wear a mask in public because he says the message about it is no joke.
But there's a lot more going on in his State that is flatting the curve. What did he do? When did he do it? And what's next? The Governor, up, right after this.
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C. CUOMO: Ohio's Governor was one of the first to issue a stay-at-home order. And he says it's too early to lift it despite promising projections. That is not an easy message to give an uneasy population.
Governor Mike DeWine joins us now on Prime Time.
And Governor, I want to say thank you for giving the people of Ohio that message. I know it's unpopular. But that's what makes you popular as a leader.
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): Well thanks Chris. First of all, I want to say I'm glad you're doing better. But how in the world am I supposed to follow this act between you and
your brother? I mean seriously, that was one of the best things I've seen on TV in a long time.
C. CUOMO: Governor, just answer the questions that's asked.
DEWINE: And here I am.
C. CUOMO: And we're not going to have a problem, OK? We're not going to - we're not going to have a problem.
DEWINE: Yes, Sir. I got it. I got it.
C. CUOMO: No listen, thank you for the nice words. He sends his regards as well.
Now, to help people understand, I know that it's easy to criticize you guys after the fact for what you do. And yes, you had the benefit of watching some of the bigger populations deal with it earlier.
But when people get sensitive, everybody should have done things sooner, you did things sooner in Ohio, even on the election side. And we'll talk about that more in a second.
But what can you tell people about when it was clear to make a call and how tricky it is to make the right call in real time in a situation like this?
DEWINE: Well, first of all, I have a great Health Director in Dr. Amy Acton.
And she had been advising me for some time, and following what was going on in China, and we - she really tied me in with a lot of good people to talk to. We put together a group of doctors from Ohio, about 14 doctors.
But the - the first big decision we had to make was in regard to what's called the Arnold Classic. And it's a big event in Columbus. Arnold comes in. And it's a big sporting event. But it's also like a tradeshow, 60,000 spectators coming in.
And we had to decide, were we going to let that go on? And it was a tough decision because no one had really, at that point, shut anything down, I don't think, to speak of in the United States.
But we looked at it, studied it, 60,000 people, from up to 80 countries coming in, in a relatively small area, for four days, just made absolutely no sense, according to the scientist and - and medical community.
And so, I had a great partner in - in the Mayor, Andy Ginther. And he and I made those decisions. And we said "No. We'll allow the event to go on. But we're not going to allow any spectators."
That was tough because it, you know, it disappointed an awful lot of people, and there's a big economic impact for the - for the City of Columbus.
C. CUOMO: And people could see the economic impact. They couldn't see the pandemic impact at that time.
Now that they saw the numbers that came after that, now you have a flattening of the curve, it becomes about persistence, and selling people on staying the course. Now, one of the ways you did that was staying even in your approach.
So, with the election, you were like "Listen, I've got to change the election." And the President disagrees with that move. The Supreme Court just agreed with him in the State case of Wisconsin. I know there was a discrete issue there about expending - expanding the date for absentee ballots, specifically.
But why do you ascribe to the school of thought that moving an election is not undoing an election?
DEWINE: Well we look at it as continuing the election, which is really what - what we did. We - our plan originally was to push the election back, have an actual in-place voting. That's not eventually what the legislature did. But we still - people still have plenty of time to vote.
But I made this decision, and again, that is not an easy decision to make. But I made the decision for - for a couple of reasons. One, 35,000 poll workers, many of them--
C. CUOMO: Right.
DEWINE: --I don't know where you vote, but where I vote, these people have been there for a long time, and they do it, so the people who are at very high risk, for 13 hours in Ohio being at the polls.
The other thing, it was clear to me that weekend that there were people in Ohio who were really reassessing it. And they had the opportunity before to vote absentee. They hadn't done it because they never do it. You know, certain people always want to go vote in- person. But that Sunday--
C. CUOMO: Right.
DEWINE: --or Monday, it was just starting to strike people, "Hey, this is dangerous." And I met--
C. CUOMO: Oh, yes.
[21:45:00]
DEWINE: --I talked to a 70-year old, 70 - late 70-year old couple. And they said, "Look, we just decided, we talked together, we decided we're not going to vote. It's - it's - we always vote. But we're not going to take the chance."
So, it was clear to me we were asking people, you know, we were messaging, "You should vote," and we were messaging, "You should stay home." And it finally struck me that just doesn't make any sense, and that's not fair.
C. CUOMO: So--
DEWINE: And we're putting people at risk.
C. CUOMO: The President says that, you know, the number one Republican in the country says, "Here's your mistake" is that "You forgot that people cheat with mail-in ballots, and that mail-in voting is rife with fraud. It happens all the time," he says, "And that's why you can't risk it. Mail-in voting is a bad thing, and you allowed it, and now you're going to have to pay for that."
Why do you disagree?
DEWINE: Well I don't think he was talking about Ohio. But, you know, I don't think what goes on, I can't speak--
C. CUOMO: No, no, no. He was - he never mentioned Ohio specifically.
DEWINE: --you know, yes, yes, yes.
C. CUOMO: He's been--
DEWINE: Yes.
C. CUOMO: --talking about mail-in voting as a concept that you embraced.
DEWINE: Well it's something we've done in Ohio for a long time. And we have a very liberal voting in the sense that it - we have voting for four weeks, and we do it every election, and we let - we have early voting.
We let people go in actually to the Board of Elections and - and vote. We let them go on the Sunday before the election. But for 28 days, they have a right to go in, and they also can do absentee ballots. So, we're used to doing that.
C. CUOMO: Right.
DEWINE: Frank LaRose, who's our Secretary of State, you know, I have great confidence in him. My Lieutenant Governor was the previous Secretary of State, Jon Husted.
And, you know, they know how to run elections and we've had a lot of experience in this. So, we didn't really worry about, you know, any - any kind of fraud as - as far as that was concerned.
C. CUOMO: Well they certainly haven't seen it in the Case Law looking in terms of the President's - precedential value of fraud as a fixture within your election. There's not a lot of case data there to support the concern.
Governor Mike DeWine, you are creating a record though of accomplishment on this pandemic. I hope your State stays the course. I hope the numbers continue to go down. DEWINE: We'll.
C. CUOMO: And I wish you a very good future.
DEWINE: Good luck to you, Chris. Thank you for having me.
C. CUOMO: Governor - Governor, thank you. God bless your family.
All right now, most people who get the virus, you would do anything to escape it again, OK? Our heroes on the front-lines are not most people.
I want you to meet a doctor who works at an epicenter within an epicenter of this outbreak. He just recovered and is putting his life back on the line, and he knows it. Why? What does it tell us about him? Let's learn together, next.
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C. CUOMO: You know that hospitals are filling up. You know that doctors and nurses are getting sick themselves. But what happens once they recover, if God willing, they recover, then what? That's the perspective I want to give you now.
Dr. Omar is joining us now, Omar Maniya. He is one of our front-line heroes. He knows the pains of Coronavirus firsthand. He had it himself. He recovered, and he is back treating patients at New York's, one of its hardest-hit hospitals, in Elmhurst, Queens.
Welcome, Doctor, to Prime Time.
DR. OMAR MANIYA, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN, ELMHURST HOSPITAL, RECOVERED FROM CORONAVIRUS: Thank you, Chris, for having me. And I'm - I'm really rooting for you to get better. I'm cautiously optimistic for you.
C. CUOMO: Well thank you, Doc. And I draw confidence from your own successful recovery to this. And I want to ask you, the decision to go back into the hospital, did you have hesitation?
MANIYA: To be honest, not really. You know, we became emergency physicians, and - and everyone working on the front-lines, we love the opportunity to - to change the course of people's lives when they need it most. And so, it was never a question for me or any of my colleagues who've gotten sick, you know.
We want to get back. In fact, many of us, myself included, honestly felt a little guilty when we were quarantining at home because our colleagues are working their tails off and - and we're sitting on the couch, appropriately nursing ourselves back to health.
But, you know, there's - there's just so much need out there, and there's such a shortage of supplies and people and the workforce that, you know, we're excited, I was excited, to get back on the front- lines.
C. CUOMO: What if you're not immune?
MANIYA: That is - that's a scary question to think about, you know.
I'm still taking all of the same precautions. I'm wearing all my PPE, taking off my clothes, showering when I get home. I'm hoping that the immunity works out. I'm scheduled to get an antibody test later this week. But, you know, I'm just fingers crossed.
C. CUOMO: Yes, absolutely. You have prayers from so many, you can't even imagine, just seeing you, and realizing what you're doing for the rest of us.
And tell us what you were seeing that this is a kind of sick that even you have just never experienced in terms of the flow in the hospital. What are you seeing?
MANIYA: Chris, to be honest with you, it is wild, you know. We feel like we're playing Whac-A-Mole with sick patients.
There's a decompensating patient over here. You've - you work with them. You fix them. And then, all of a sudden two others pop up, and it's this never-ending - never-ending tide.
I want to give credit though to the - the heroism that I've seen from my colleagues, and all the volunteers, the retired doctors have come out, you know, it's just so heartwarming to see so many people come together at this moment.
But, you know, one of the things this virus does that I don't think is talked about enough is it really interferes with your body's ability to absorb oxygen.
[21:55:00]
And so normally, a normal healthy person should be living at 96 percent to a 100 percent. And maybe once in a while, in the emergency department, I'll see the odd patient who has a 70 percent or an 80 percent. But every single day, I'm seeing patients in the 30s, the 40s, 50 percent.
C. CUOMO: Wow!
MANIYA: I even had a - yes, I even had a patient go down to zero percent. I didn't even know the monitor could read that low. And so, that's - that's really scaring me.
And - and the real sad part about this disease is patients are dying alone because, appropriately so, the hospitals are preventing visitors, and - and that's what we need to control the virus.
But, you know, not having your loved one hold your hand, in your last few minutes, is - is got to be one of the most painful - painful experiences. So, some of us have started FaceTiming families, so they can whisper a prayer in - in a patient's ear and--
C. CUOMO: It's such a beautiful gesture.
MANIYA: --and that helps but you know. But it's--
C. CUOMO: It's such a beautiful gesture to them.
MANIYA: --it's not the same as.
C. CUOMO: It's, of course, it's not the same, Doctor. But it's something they wouldn't have had otherwise. And it's something I want people to know about, even though it's hard for you to discuss it with them.
Because they have to know that the pain of keeping yourself home right now and keeping yourself away from loved ones now may spare you the fate of not being able to be with them in their final moments.
That's how important this self-isolation is. And that's why I want people to hear the reality of how many are dying alone in the hospital.
MANIYA: Absolutely.
C. CUOMO: Well Doctor, I got to tell you, I am - I am not jealous of your recovery because you deserve it much more than anybody like me. You are doing the right thing with your life. You're helping other people.
And boy, are you brave to go back to the same place that got you sick because I know you are acutely aware of how little you want to have this virus inside your body.
Dr. Omar Maniya, God bless, please stay well, and let us know if there's anything we can do to help your cause.
MANIYA: Absolutely. Thank you, Chris, for everything you're doing, and for spreading the message, and telling people to stay home.
C. CUOMO: Thank you. Yes, absolutely. We have to stay home. That's why it's a hashtag.
All right, now, to another big group of you, out there, my Jewish brothers and sisters.
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C. CUOMO: As a proud member of what we call the Mishpocha, the extended family, may you have a sweet Passover. In fact, may we all have a sweet Passover.
The story of this Holy Day is more relevant to the secular reality of this entire country than perhaps it ever has been. The story of Passover is a literal passing over of the Angel of Death, right?
The Jews were warned to mark their doors with blood to avoid having the firstborn taken. It was the worst of the plagues. This pandemic is plague-like, OK? It is casting a shadow over everyone's door, and there is no mark that it seems to respect.
But there is a defense. It cannot overcome our greatest gift, that which brings us all closer to union with the divine, that which is our unique attribute among all animals that God made, that is our compassion. Why?
Our compassion is what compels the pandemic to spare homes by keeping our distance from each other, and therefore, keeping each other safe. That's a practice of compassion.
And it compels us, our compassion, to self-isolate, to do something that is good for somebody else, even if we don't love it for ourselves, even if it's hard, but because we know it's right. That's the practice of compassion. That is how we will create our own Passover, God willing.
Jewish brothers and sisters ask themselves the four questions at Seder tonight, Zoom Seder, maybe they're having now, and that's the right way to do it. The answer why tonight is different from all others, well we need to answer that question collectively about where we all are right now.
We've never been where we are, the fear, the challenge, the realities, the fragility, understanding how precious so many of the things that we take for granted truly are, we should have a new set of questions.
How do we make sure the rest of the country deals with this pandemic better than we have so far?
Now, a big part of the answer to that one is going to mean, how do we deal with the minority communities and the impoverished communities that are getting hard - hit harder, except to just acknowledge it?
Everybody is now acknowledging it. That's good. But they're not doing anything about it. When will they do that? Where is the plan to blunt that effect, OK? How do we get better leadership on that level? Saying what the reality is, is not enough. You must address the reality, OK? And how do we do that? How do we get better leadership without just reducing it to getting even or being in the Gotcha game, and attacking one side for doing what the other side does? How do we protect ourselves from the next wave, so we don't repeat this nightmare?
Those are the kinds of questions that we have to ask. It will be a hard Passover. It will be a hard Easter. But I hope the themes, the ideas, the rationales that they get as rooted as much in our collective faith in each other, as they do in our particular faith traditions.
We need this Dark Spirit to pass over our homes. We need to see the purpose, even in pandemic-level pain. We need rebirth and renewal to get to a better place.
