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Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Falsely Claims He Has "Total" Authority Over State Shutdowns; Several East Coast Governors Band Together With Task Force Focused On Re-Opening States; Chris Cuomo On His Coronavirus Battle. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 13, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: More than half a million of us are sick. You know I have it. I'm fighting through it. Most of us are fighting through it. But how can we expect it to go through this again? How can we be expected to do that?
Well that's what they're telling us. If you're going to re-open, and you don't have a plan, to track cases, and keep us safe, you are damning us to repeat our own ruin. That's the fact.
It's the top question that governors from Coast to Coast are demanding an answer to, because the President says keeping us safe, the testing, is on them. They tell you, one after the other, as you'll hear tonight, they can't do it.
So, if Trump says he has total authority to decide what happens, but he doesn't have total commitment to make sure it happens, where will we wind up? It's not in America's Constitution. And it sure as hell isn't in America's best interest.
We have to prepare the way forward or we will all fall backwards. Our answer is for us to be on this question, together as ever as one. So, let's get after them.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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CUOMO: You know, as such is the story of the Coronavirus that as we finally seem to start, being coming together, in big collectives, and in quiet areas, and staying at home, we see the curves starting to flatten.
We see the worst expectations being backed off by experts. That's good. That is proof that the remedy was realistic. Doesn't mean they were wrong. That is a silly notion because their projections were based on whether or not we did the right things.
We're doing the right things. It's working. But if we don't have as good a plan going forward, what happens when we remove the only measure keeping us safe?
This will meet you with urgency but maybe is not - not as much, as it meets my ears, because I'm sick and because I talk to people who are sick all the time. And I am kind of bathed in their battles.
And I can't believe that this President would want to expose any more of you to what I may battle as someone who's strong and lucky, for a month. I can't believe that we would put parents and people, young and old, in that position all across this country without a plan. It makes no sense.
The President can't re-open the country with a "Big Bang" without a "Big Plan." You've got to have one. We got here by not having a plan. Repeating it would be insanity. It literally makes me sweat just as an idea.
So, let's talk. Let's be calm. Let's be measured and let's be persistent, OK? Our first guest tonight is the Connecticut Governor, all right? Now, he has been watching what's been happening, and I want him to respond to this latest notion about what our future should be.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The President of the United States calls the shots.
When somebody is the President of the United States, the authority is total and that's the way it's got to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's total? Your authority's total?
TRUMP: It's total. It's total.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your authority's total?
TRUMP: And the governors know that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, if a - if a governor--
TRUMP: The governors know that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If a governor issued--
TRUMP: Now, you have a couple of bands of - of--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --a stay-at-home order, you just--
TRUMP: --excuse me, excuse me.
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CUOMO: Nobody knows it, OK? Let's be very clear. We're about to talk to a Governor. The Governor of New York, as you know, my brother, he doesn't agree with this. Nobody agrees with it.
There's a legitimate Tenth Amendment issue here about states' rights. In the absence of those rights being directly delegated to the federal government, they are reserved in the states.
But this is a bigger problem that I don't want to burden the Governor of Connecticut with. But I want you to have it on your shoulders, OK?
He's saying he has the absolute authority to re-open, but he will not own the absolute responsibility to do testing, identification, isolation, and treatment, of those who have cases when we do re-open. He says that's on the states.
The states say they can't handle it. So, you believe that your ultimate authority, this all-powerful, he loves to say how powerful he is, but how does he use that power, and when?
Would he use it to have our manufacturers make the things that we need? No, not really. Will he take with that authority the responsibility of having a plan to test, what will be fundamentally important to the well-being of your family and mine? No.
[21:05:00]
Then what kind of power does he really have, and how can we even consider him exercising it, with this type of recklessness, perception of risk, and disregarding it?
Connecticut's Governor is led - Ned Lamont. He has developed a reputation for being a student of the situation here, watching what was happening in other places, making smart decisions for his State.
Governor, thank you for joining us.
GOV. NED LAMONT (D-CT): Well, thank you, Chris. It is nice to see you.
CUOMO: Now in no way is this same--
LAMONT: I'll tell you what I saw when I heard that.
CUOMO: Oh, go ahead.
LAMONT: I mean, this is a President who wants to--
CUOMO: Go ahead, Governor.
LAMONT: --throw verbal hand grenades.
And two weeks ago, he told your brother, and myself, "I want a mandatory quarantine of New York Metropolitan area." And we called him up, and talked him down, and we got something a lot more reasonable.
Now, two weeks later, he wants the mandatory opening up of everything. I just think he likes us to run down these rabbit holes.
You're right. The governors are going to make the determination on what's best for their State. We care deeply about the health and safety of our citizens, and we're going to get our economy going on a prudent thoughtful way. CUOMO: You said "Verbal hand grenades." The problem is he froze them, they blow up in your face, because now he says "Well testing, well that's on the states. My decision is just to re-open the economy."
We'll deal with what he assumes his power is, in a moment. But let's just be painfully honest. I know in New York, they can't handle that kind of responsibility, not with that kind of scale.
Can you, in Connecticut, guarantee the people who voted for you, and those who didn't, frankly, you're in charge of all of them, that if they re-open, the job markets and all of the attendant services in Connecticut that you can mark any new cases and make sure you can contact-trace and get people treated?
LAMONT: Absolutely not. But we are working our heart out right now to get the reagents in place, make sure we do the molecular testing, ramp up our antibody testing. Obviously, if the Feds would take the lead on that, it would be a lot more effective.
Short of that, look, Andrew Cuomo, myself, Phil Murphy, and six other governors, got together, and said, we'll take the lead in the absence of the federal government. We're going to be the ones setting up the rules and standards in terms of how we do our testing because Connecticut will never be safe unless New York is safe and vice versa.
CUOMO: You guys are doing it on the East Coast. We're seeing it happening also on the West Coast.
The President says "You're wasting your time, Governor. You don't have the power. The power is mine to re-open the economy, including everything that involves in your State and your people." Do you agree?
LAMONT: Look, he's got the bully pulpit. But we're the ones that have to enforce it. Everybody knows that it's the governors. We're the rubber meets the road. I think every Governor knows what it takes to get it done.
Just like he said, when I'm in a mandatory quarantine, New York City, we had to say, "Mr. President, there are a 120 roads, not to mention ferries and railroads, in and out. There's no way to do that," and he didn't do it.
CUOMO: Now, if he says to you, "Listen, I'm doing it. You're right. You'll figure it out, Ned Lamont, Governor of Connecticut. But I'm telling you, right now, you're going to re-open," how can you follow that order? How can you comply when you know you can't keep your people safe?
LAMONT: I could not keep my people safe if we tried to do that overnight. Telling me that anybody can go in and out of nursing homes, when our nursing homes are on fire, look, we've still got a rising infection rate in this State.
We still have rising hospitalizations, not as fast as two weeks ago, thank God, but they're still going up fast. You know, the boat is very tippy right now, and this is the time for steady leadership. So, let's not throw any more of these verbal hand grenades.
CUOMO: But you know why he throws them, Governor.
And again, I'm very careful, not just with my brother, but with all the governors, all the leaders, I don't want to put you sideways with the President. I know that he can punish. I understand. And I know you've got to think about your people and getting the most resources.
But I'm telling you, if nobody stands up, and says, "I know it sounds good. I know it's what a lot of us want to hear."
Hell, I want to hear it, Governor. I'm sick of being in my basement. I want to get out. I want to be better. I want to go out and do the things I want to do. But you know what? I'm not ready. I still have low-grade fever. I am a metaphor for this country.
And they think it sounds good. And they're going to think he's saying the right thing, and you're saying the wrong thing, unless governors like you stand up and say, "He's not giving it to you straight, we're not ready to re-open."
Can you say that?
LAMONT: I can say that. That's what we had nine governors today say, they said "We're going to open up. We're going to do it on a thoughtful basis."
I'm not going to send hundreds of Typhoid - Typhoid Marys out in the community, and have another whole round of re-infection.
Talk about taking the confidence out of this economy, talking about taking people down, if we let that happen, shame on us. Not one governor will let that happen, not to their State, not to their broader community.
[21:10:00]
CUOMO: And Governor, just quickly, and again, because you have been, I believe, fairly called out in a good way, whatever the good version of being called out is, celebrated for being a student of the situations around you, OK? You've watched. You've acted with deliberate speed. Good for you.
Is there any question in your mind that this federal government didn't have more that it could have done sooner to help those who got hit early?
LAMONT: Look, within a month, we're going to have all the ventilators, most of the PPE and other, probably even testing, that we needed.
But imagine if we had started this three months ago what a difference that would have made? That said we'll have plenty of time in elections and history books to realize the mistakes that were made in the past.
I think every governor is saying what do we do now to get our state on track, keep it safe, and slowly, methodically open up the economy again?
CUOMO: I agree with the analysis, a 100 percent, Governor. It's not for me about looking back. It's about understanding how you move forward.
And this - this President is denying that he did anything wrong because he wants to give America a false sense of confidence that he knew what to do then, and he knows what to do now.
And if we don't do better now, than we did in the first phase, we'll repeat the same situation. And I just don't want to see all that human pain.
Governor Ned Lamont, thank you for your candor. I know it can come at a price. But I think, right now, we're at such a pivotal moment, we need our leaders with one voice to say, "We've got to do this right or it shouldn't be done at all."
So Governor, thank you for keeping us apprised of the situation in Connecticut. Thank you for making yourself available. And we are available to you.
LAMONT: You're looking good, Chris. And, believe me. The governors are going to be speaking with one voice on this. Nice to see you.
CUOMO: Thank you. God bless and be well.
All right, now look, it is not easy for a Governor to say what he just said. He's going to ask for things from the federal government. He may or may not get it.
They'd punish. I'm telling you it happens on a regular basis. If you're not nice to Trump, he's not nice to you. The problem is he wields all of the tools in the federal basket. And when he wants to punish you, it can sting.
Governor Ned Lamont has no reason to not want to re-open. There is no upside to being closed economically and to morale. But it's about leadership by balancing equities.
And I want to turn to the medical takeaways on this, OK? You know Sanjay Gupta. You know he understands public healthcare policy.
Can you re-open an economy if you are not ready for the public health ramifications? Sounds like a no-brainer question, right? Well then why are we just about to answer it the wrong way? Next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: President was doing what he does best today. He was attacking those who criticize him. It doesn't matter. This is no time to back away from power. We have to call out the pacts - the facts, and the facts are very clear.
This Administration, led by this President, downplayed the threat of Coronavirus for weeks. If we had used those weeks, to enforce the messages, and get the resources that we did since, we would be in a different situation.
The President wants you to believe the most important thing to do was closing off China. Here's his argument to you.
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PAULA REID, CBS NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What did you do with the time that you bought?
TRUMP: You know what we did?
REID: The month of February? That--
TRUMP: You know what we did?
REID: --that video has a gap.
TRUMP: What do you do--
REID: The entire month of February.
TRUMP: What do you do when you have no case in the whole United States when you--
REID: You had cases in February.
TRUMP: Excuse me. You reported it. Zero cases, zero deaths, on January 17.
REID: January. February - the entire month of February.
TRUMP: January - I said in January.
REID: Your video has a complete gap the month of February.
TRUMP: On January 30--
REID: What did your Administration do in February with the time that your travel ban bought you?
TRUMP: A lot. REID: What?
TRUMP: A lot.
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CUOMO: Again, facts, OK? Closing us away from China, so the Chinese couldn't come here, and vice versa, Europe as well, those were pieces. But the fundamental piece here was, is, and always be, what we communicate to and among one another. Do you understand?
It was always about shutting down our movements in communities here. And he never wanted any piece of it. And it is demonstrably false that after he closed down China, this quiet period of about a month that they were doing so much.
No, they weren't. He was lying to you about this idea of this being bad, being a hoax by Democrats, that there will be a trickle of cases that would magically disappear.
And what's most important for you to remember is not his hyperbole. It's that he was being told by people, in and around him in the White House, that that wasn't true, for weeks.
Let's bring in Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
You know, Sanjay, my - my friends are watching this, saying, "Hey, no man, don't get too heated up, don't get too heated up."
This is the time, brother. This is the time, because you re-open the economy, without a plan, that allows for people to be rapidly tested, traced, identified, treated, and isolated, there will be thousands more like me, losing months of their lives to this virus.
[21:20:00]
You know it, and I know it, and it's unacceptable. We can't have it go forward if they don't have a plan, Sanjay, not if we can avoid it, by getting the American people on the same page.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There's plenty of evidence now, Chris, you know, both around the world and throughout history of that being a problem. If you open up too early, there's resurgences, and now they're modeling it for all these different counties around the United States.
Chris, I want to - I want to bring up a point that I think you'll appreciate. It's a bit of a nuanced point. But it goes back to this - the whole timing of things. Let's just put up the timeline that I created for a second.
I want to show you something, Chris. It hasn't - you know, this - this whole - this whole pandemic has not had the same level of concern throughout. And I think that's the nuance, Chris.
So January 7th, we find out there's a novel Coronavirus, big deal, public health community, OK? New virus circulating in humans, what's this going to be?
Keep in mind, you know, SARS, when that happened, that was also a Coronavirus problem. But it ended up infecting only 8,000 people around the world, 800 people died.
So, people are thinking "Is this another SARS? We worried a lot about that. That didn't end up being a big deal. Or is this going to be something worse?"
If you fast-forward now to the end of January, Chris, that timetable you're talking about, where they put in the ban for - for flights from China, you know what also happened on that day, January 31st?
President - I'm sorry, Anthony Fauci went to the lectern, and he said, there's - there's concerns that there may be asymptomatic transmission of this virus. That's a huge deal, Chris. That is a huge deal.
And as early as the end of January, certainly by middle of February, when I interviewed Dr. Redfield, we knew there was asymptomatic transmission. So, there's a nuance in here.
At what point did it become a big enough concern to say this thing is here, it is spreading, it is spreading asymptomatically, it's going to be a problem? As early as January 31st, certainly within a week or two after that.
That was clear. So, that's the real issue here, you know, the--
CUOMO: Well certainly in Washington--
GUPTA: --the stay-at-home orders really weren't recommended until a month later.
CUOMO: In Washington, Sanjay, not only are you right that the stay-at- homes weren't in until a month later. And remember, those were precipitated by whom? The governors. The President didn't want his hand--
GUPTA: That's right.
CUOMO: --on them. He never wanted to say we need to close down. That's why he didn't want to own testing because testing would reveal realities that would force his hand, so he was backing off testing, as the federal requirement.
But more importantly, put back up Sanjay's timeline. And thank you so much for this, so instructive, both in terms of what we knew, and what we did not do.
GUPTA: Right, right.
CUOMO: January 21st, if you were to go January 25th, or 26th, and talk to the Washington Governor, you know what he was saying right? "We got to shut down." Remember how when they realized what was happening--
GUPTA: Right. CUOMO: --in that elder facility and it could be any elder facility, they started locking down everything, out of real justifiable panic that that was the only way to stop the spread. So, we had plenty of time, Sanjay. We didn't do it.
And now, here's what the President is saying. "I have absolute authority, not your bailiwick."
I think he's got big Tenth Amendment issues legally. But let's push past the law. "Testing is not my thing, Sanjay. That's on the states. But what's on me is doing the Big Bang, and I'm going to do the Big Bang."
If we re-open, and states, like Connecticut, where his Governor, Ned Lamont, was just honest, and said, "I cannot keep my people safe with testing if we re-open," what kind of mix does that give us around this country?
GUPTA: I mean that - that is - that is the - the problem, Chris. I mean, you know, testing, and I'm talking about testing for the virus. So, there's - there's good stuff that can come out of testing for the antibodies as well.
But I'm saying just the basic testing that we've been talking about since, you know, January, that - without that, widely available, and widely distributed, because we keep talking about the numbers of tests. That's a good thing to pay attention to.
But can people still get them, at the end of the day, people who need them in various places around the country, can they get them? How easy is this going to be to get because you're going to need to do a lot of testing?
Some say, you know, 750,000 tests a day, as we're coming out of this curve, to be able to - to identify people who - who have the infection. They can isolate them, contact-trace them, all the stuff we're talking about.
Test, trace, and then hopefully treat, the third T. We don't have a treatment yet. But hopefully, you know, we're going to have one of those at some point as well. But without it and, you know, they - they need help with the testing.
Just the numbers are so high. I mean we're going through something most of us in our lifetime have never experienced. So, they're going to need the testing. They've always needed the testing, and it's going to be - we're not out of that phase of needing the testing, Chris.
And I know - by the way, I got to - I got to ask because you look a little bit - you look a little bit better to me, Chris. Are you - are you feeling better too?
CUOMO: I feel better. I'm scared by this. I'm scared - I'm scared by the potential of this. And it frustrates me because I can't get out of this basement.
[21:25:00]
I still have this low-grade fever. I can't shake it. And I know everybody tells me it's gradual, takes time. It's anywhere between, you know, 2 to 3.5 weeks. But it is maddening to have this little stupid fever, this 99, 99.5 fever.
The body aches are better. My breathing is getting better. It's getting stronger. I'm now at the 3,500 that you wanted me to get to on that spirometer, the thing where I have to blow on it--
GUPTA: Right.
CUOMO: --and make the ball go. I've never hated a happy face--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --as much as I do, doing that spirometer, because it's the smiley face. That's where you have to keep the little ball when you're blowing up, so it's the most painful place to keep it.
GUPTA: Means you're doing a good job.
CUOMO: But I can't beat it.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: And I am a metaphor, Sanjay, for the country, where not just the - the face of how people's sick. There's a whole range. I'm saying I'm ready to get out of the basement. I'm sick of being sick. I've had it. I want to get back to work. But I'm not ready and I don't have a plan to be ready.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: That's where we are right now. And it's like the President's saying, "No, I'm good. Get out, Chris. Go do your job. You're good to go." I'll get people sick.
GUPTA: It's so striking to me, Chris because, you know, what you're describing, and part of the reason I ask each time I see you, is because I mean this is instructive, you know. I mean this is part of how we learn.
We knew this was a novel Coronavirus. But what does that mean exactly besides the fact that it's new, we have no immunity to it? We're all learning together.
This is different than SARS, which was also a Coronavirus. SARS was not nearly as contagious as this. By the way, Chris, it was a lot more lethal. SARS was probably 10 percent fatality rate. H1N1 was super- contagious but not - not lethal, really about a third of the rate of the lethality of flu.
This one is, we're learning about this. You know, we're talking, as you said, two to three weeks of illness, that's a long period of illness, you know. Is that - is that going to be normal for everybody? We don't know.
There are some people who seem to get really quite sick suddenly from this virus, and some people who sort of languish along for a period of time and then, you know, thankfully improved. That's most people. Most people like you are going to improve. I'm
confident of that. But, you know, it's - it's tough road. How many days has it been now for you?
CUOMO: I was diagnosed - I tested positive two weeks ago today. I probably had light symptoms a few days before it. I mean I felt lousy.
That's why I wanted to get tested because I knew I had been exposed to multiple people who tested positive. And as an essential worker, and stuff, you know, I knew I had to make sure because I was going to be too much in the mix. So, I got tested. And, you know, it's been two weeks.
But I'll tell you what we're going to hear about, Sanjay, and I know this, because I've been talking to so many people all over the country, and people are afraid to talk about it, and I'm not.
This virus creates emotional illness and creates psychological illness. I'm telling you, it is in my head, not just figuratively, in terms of messing with you, because you're sick for a long time.
It is causing people depression, and it's creating brain fog, and it's creating edginess in people. That can happen from fever also, as you do your research, and all that. I know you know this already, Doc.
I'm experiencing that. It messes with your head, this virus. And I don't know where it leaves you afterwards. And the experts, I'm talking to, are saying to me increasingly "Yes, yes, we've seen that."
But how do you treat it and what does it mean down the road? We don't know. People are having scarred lungs after this where they don't have the same lung capacity afterwards that they did before.
We're going to learn a lot of things, and that's even more reason to make sure--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --that we keep as few people from getting it as possible. Sanjay, not everybody has the good fortune that I do to have a Sanjay on speed dial, and you are a gift, and thank you for helping me get through this.
GUPTA: Anytime, brother.
And, you know, I'm glad you - you get - I'm glad we're talking about this because I think too many times this gets turned into a binary issue, Chris, people who've lived, and people who have not.
And, you know, you're going to be in the recovery column, though you - you'll be listed as recovered. But what does that really mean to be recovered, which is that - what I think you're driving at, Chris, so I hope you'll keep having me back on because I want to hear about - I'm learning. I really am. I think we all are. So, I appreciate it.
CUOMO: I'm glad for you to go to school on my bad fortune. No, I'm kidding. Sanjay, you're the best. You are always welcome, and you are a gift to me, thank you.
And now, look--
GUPTA: You got it.
CUOMO: --and as Sanjay will tell you all day long, and he's right to tell you, I'm as good as it gets, OK?
I have the means. I have the ability to be in a nice place, isolated by myself. I got a wife who is killing herself to take care of me and my family. I've got every box checked. My job is secure, as far as I know.
Imagine when you have none of those things. It is really important for us to stay connected with what's going on, especially if we're all going to get on board in this great big hurry to create more risk of more cases.
[21:30:00]
I want to check back with a family I introduced you to. A father - her husband was in the hospital. Now he's home, he needs a lot of help. She's still sick. She has it like I do. She's got kids who has it - have it. And she's got little ones, five and seven, that she's got to figure out how to take care of.
Can you imagine all of that? We're going to talk to her, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: All right, let's stay connected to people who are really up against this. The front-lines are obviously in the hospitals. But there're also really battle lines drawn in our own homes.
The Mandel family, greatly affected by this virus, Lauren, her husband, who's a doctor, both tested positive. He had to be hospitalized. They then sent him home. Wait till you hear the story, what kind of shape he came home in.
[21:35:00] They're blessed with four kids, 17, 15, seven and five. Now, the two oldest are showing symptoms, and they have to find ways to share how to take care of seven and five.
I was chatting with Lauren this weekend. Lauren Thomas Mandel joining us now.
How are you feeling today, Champ?
LAUREN THOMAS MANDEL, TESTED POSITIVE FOR CORONAVIRUS, FAMILY BATTLING CORONAVIRUS: You're talking?
I'm feeling OK. I had a very long day. It was very, very rough. We started off with some problems in the morning. But, you know, besides the shortness of breath, I cannot get rid of my shortness of breath, it is very bad.
CUOMO: And your fever is where?
MANDEL: My fever has been gone for about four or five days now. I believe everything you said about the fever, that 99.2, that 99.3, just want to like throw the thermometer at the wall and, you know, you've had enough of it. And I agree I'm - 18 days, I've been in my bedroom, and I am ready to venture outside. I'm ready to be a human being again.
CUOMO: Right.
MANDEL: I'd actually like to throw real clothes on instead of just pajamas. I don't, you know, you know - you know it's coming that there has to be an end somewhere in sight. But I'm not so sure where and when it's coming (ph).
CUOMO: And it's so interesting, you know, I hope Sanjay is hearing this, because you and I are dealing with the same progression, but different symptoms.
So, I can't get rid of the fever. Now, I'm a little bit ahead of you. Susan, my writer, was telling me that it's not two weeks today, it's two weeks tomorrow, that I was diagnosed. OK. So, let's say it's tomorrow. That's 14 days, really like 16 days.
I can't get rid of the fever. But my breathing has gotten better. That tightness in my chest, you know, that one big breath that you take, where you don't know if you're like going to kind of cough or throw-up thing, you know, you just get that weird pain.
MANDEL: Yes.
CUOMO: That is abating from me. But the fever, especially if I get amped up, like I'm freaked out about the idea of them re-opening societies, and not having plans to test and treat, I mean that freaks me out, OK?
They're going to create like an army of us. And so I start to sweat. As soon as it starts to become, you know, something I'm serious about, I sweat. So, you're dealing with your symptoms, every bit as bad as mine, but you're taking care of the little ones.
How's that going?
MANDEL: Right. It's going. This morning, they decided to leave the refrigerator open all night, so when I went downstairs, that did not help breathing. Threw out the entire refrigerator, got on the phone.
One of my brother-in-laws and my mom and stepdad were able to get us necessities immediately, so we were able to eat today. You know, they definitely are running the house. They're in charge. They're doing whatever. And, you know, we're trying to get ourselves back on track.
The 17-year-old, thank goodness, is feeling good. And tomorrow, he is allowed around the house. He's out of quarantine with a mask.
The 15-year-old is still rearing to go. She's in the, you know, the thrill of it right now, right in the middle of it. And hopefully, she'll make a positive turn soon.
And, you know, my husband came home yesterday very, very weak. The paramedics dropped him off at the bottom of my steps. Eight concrete steps, he had to walk up by himself. They didn't have the proper attire, so they couldn't walk him in, dropped the bag of his clothes on the floor.
He had to bend down. And the rest of us are too weak and too sick to help him. So, we couldn't really help him. And he had to walk all the way up the stairs into the 17-year-old's room. And that's kind of where he's been for the past 24 hours.
CUOMO: How is he doing?
MANDEL: He's doing OK. He had - nights are not good for him. He gets very panicky, and nervous, and his heart rate races. And, you know, now, especially being at home, it's harder to calm down.
But, you know, one point he called one of his colleagues last night, then called me, and we got him calm, and he's been pretty good today. So, hopefully, he's hoping for a few hours of sleep tonight, so he can have some peace and strength for the next day.
CUOMO: Is his big - obviously, the lungs were in distress. That's why he went in to the hospital, double pneumonia. How's his fever?
MANDEL: Right.
CUOMO: How are his symptoms?
MANDEL: His fever has been gone. He, you know, keeps checking his pulse ox. He's at that point like we are with those monitors, you know, checking it every five seconds, and making sure it's OK, checking his heart rate.
He says he feels good, you know, just tired, very weak, doing a lot of stomach lying because that helps with the breathing for those people who don't have this, thank goodness, and don't know. But, you know, he's tired. It's - it's a very, like you said earlier, it's very draining. It's not even just a physical draining. It's a very big emotionally-draining illness.
CUOMO: Right. And whether it's the exhaustion, or the fever, I was always being heated up, I know my head's not right, like I know that I am not pumping as much IQ as I normally am.
And when I do it, it's like a concentrated band of time, and then I'm exhausted for like 2.5 hours. But the reason I want to keep people bringing back to you, to your story is twofold.
[21:40:00]
One, you check every box of dealing with the madness at home. And also, I am blown away by your ability to show up for your family and to deal with things that I'm barely making it through myself. I could never handle what you're handling.
And I think it's such an amazing testament to family. And I want people exposed to that too. You guys, the Mandels, blowing me away, as a sign of how families get through this together.
MANDEL: Yes. Well I need an elevator. So, if anyone can do that stat that would be fabulous, so I don't have to walk the steps.
Every time I walk the steps, I come up to the top, and I just like collapse, and pan, make it to my bed, check the pulse ox and, you know, I'm like count it down to the next meal, when I have to go back down.
CUOMO: Now, you're good in the mid--
MANDEL: But the steps are going to--
CUOMO: You're in the mid-to-high 90s, the O2 in your blood, mid-90s, high-90s?
MANDEL: 98, 99, so I don't really have to worry.
CUOMO: Oh, that's awesome.
MANDEL: The shortness of breath, I - yes, so the shortness of breath for me, I can even get it to 100 every once in a while. But the shortness of breath is more like I can't - it's like not in my chest. It's more up higher. And I think my allergies are help - are not helping. And it's--
CUOMO: YEs.
MANDEL: --you know, you can't take your allergy medicines, you can't use nose sprays, or anything for sending the COVID through your body. So, there's a lot of--
CUOMO: Right.
MANDEL: --other complications that go with it than just having the COVID.
CUOMO: Well look, hopefully, you'll start to see people making some turns in the house. Hopefully, they're right about this antibody thing and that if we make it through, we'll be better set-up, and that we won't keep handing it back and forth in the family.
I know that you had seen different symptoms with different of your kids and your husband versus you. It's just a weird thing--
MANDEL: Yes.
CUOMO: --that we all have the same thing, we're all affected differently.
And now, there's only one silver lining to you having to had a hard time with the refrigerator overnight, and I'm probably the only person who heard about that, and was slightly happy about it.
And you know why? Because now you're going to accept my care package. Sharon (ph) kept saying "You can't send me anything. I don't like asking for help." Not anymore! Now I got you because now the refrigerator is empty.
So, we're going to send you things because you deserve the help like everybody does, and like you will do for others, God forbid, they get this in their household the way you've had it in yours.
I don't want to take you from the kids. But I want you to know I'm thinking about you. We're going to stay in touch and we're going to send you something, OK?
MANDEL: Yes, and we're at the end, Chris. We're at--
CUOMO: Lauren, thank you so much.
MANDEL: --we're at the end. We're going to get better soon. It's there. We're at the end.
CUOMO: Well I love your optimism. I love it. You need it. You need it for the kids. And I wish you well. Lauren Thomas Mandel, you are really what I call an Ameri-CAN. You're getting your family through this.
God bless your husband. Give him a hug. And I will be back on the phone with you after the show tonight, and figure out what we can send, OK, Lauren?
MANDEL: OK. Thank you.
CUOMO: All right.
Imagine juggling all of that while you're sick with this, with this funky chest squeezing sickness. Amazing what people can get through! And God bless the people who are reaching out to help them. They deserve it and they'll pass it forward. Now, why is this so freaky for me, re-opening? Why don't I want to re- open? Of course, I want to re-open. I'm desperate to re-open. It's fundamental that we re-open. But I have to share the obvious concern about doing it the wrong way.
That's the argument, next. We've got to listen to it because it's our reality.
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[21:45:00]
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CUOMO: All right, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again, and expecting different results.
Now, let's apply that to our current reality. If we don't have a plan that addresses testing, tracing, isolating, and treating, the cases that invariably will come up when we re-open, and with no plan we re- open anyway, we're going to have more virus spread.
Trump says "Tracking, testing, that's the states' problem. My power, baby, I'm going to re-open with a Big Bang." That would literally be a move that will blow up in our faces. The President literally wants to repeat the route of our ruin. Listen.
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TRUMP: We were way ahead of schedule.
They said, I acted late on closing down the country.
Everything we did was right.
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CUOMO: Everything you did was not right. You were never ahead of schedule. You did not do what was asked of you or from you from people. That is the truth.
You had a month, where you shut down travel, but would not pull the string on closing down activity communities in states. You just said you have the power to do it.
By the way, I don't think you're right. But even if you're right, you still did it wrong. You still did it, speaking of wrong, you still did it wrong. You still didn't close down communities, when Washington and California were calling for it. The governors there had to do it themselves. And that's fine. That's leadership.
The reason I'm making this point is Republicans aren't going to tell you this. And Democrats in power, look, they got to be careful. Trump punishes you for what you say that seems bad for him.
[21:50:00]
But we can't let it go. Him saying he was ahead of the game and did everything right is a lie.
Fauci is telling you the truth. He was slow, early on, on this. He did tell people he doesn't think America really had to worry about it. He was wrong. The picture changed. The fact changed. His appraisal changed. And he's right that if they had done sooner, including him, we may have been in a better position.
Now the President says "That's bad. You fix it." And he gets him up there today, in front of the media, "Fix it. Fix it."
Now, imagine being Tony Fauci, the most credible man in America, expect some on this Righty-fringe of people who want to protect the President or think they're protecting him.
Why do you think Trump's numbers went up, my brothers and sisters on the Right? You think it's because of Tony Fauci or despite Tony Fauci? I'll give you a hint. It's the former. Why would you go after the guy who is calming America when you're getting credit for?
The only reason you can resist reality here is pure partisan poison. And I say we are sick enough from that. All levels of federal government, we're slow, OK? This started with going slowly at the federal level, and that created constipation on the state process.
The President didn't like the look of the United States combating this virus by shutting down because he knew it would look bad for the economy. It would be bad for the economy. I know that. You know that.
Most importantly, he knows it, and he's intent on lying to use about it, which has dreadful implications for his willingness to do anything differently now. The President reporting that our federal government is ready to do everything right makes no sense in the context of where we are right now.
I can literally hear him in my head right now. I have no idea why, although it's always good to talk to you and listen to the President at the same time. Aah television!
So, here's our reality. People around the President were saying to him, "This is going to be bad. You have to do something. This is going to be bad. You have to do something." That is obviously true now. The reporting is all over it.
He didn't, why? He didn't like how it looked. He was hoping it was going to be better than they said. He was wrong.
Now, the idea of missing the mark, and where that leaves us now, we all know this President will protect himself. I'm not worried about him. Who will protect the people from his political protection of himself?
I speak for those who are sick, and those who will become sick, and the families who will be burdened by that illness.
I don't want to see one more go through what I'm going through right now, what Lauren Mandel is going through in her house, with her husband sick, and her sick, and the kids are sick. And people are afraid to help. The people can only do so much.
We have to protect ourselves from more of this. We have to protect our healthcare workers from more of this. We want to call them our heroes. We want to cheer for them.
But we're going to re-open our economy and our communities without a plan to test? We are throwing them under the bus. The Big Bang is an explosion in their face, and you know it, or at least you know it now.
This President is in the business of shunning responsibility. He didn't want to own the decision to shut down the country. The travel restrictions were the easy part. This was always about restricting access within the country. It's the best prophylactic device we have. It's what's flattening the curve.
As soon as the cases started to come, the only thing that Trump was arguing about was who needed to do the testing, and that it wasn't him. That's what it was about. It will only be a trickle. The cases are going to disappear. It's going to be fine. And all this testing stuff, this is on the states, was never true.
And so, this is where we are. Here is the argument to you. It was never going to be a trickle. It will not be a trickle if he re-opens.
And if we do not have a plan, you are asking for people to get sick, for families to be broken up, and for our healthcare workers to be overwhelmed. That's what no plan to do testing, that's what leaving it to the states to do testing means. We can't handle it, and that is the truth.
Now, let's take a break. When I come back, let's reflect on what's getting us through this, OK? We say we care about those healthcare workers. Do we care enough about them to have a plan? Let's remind ourselves of what they matter and what we have to matter to each other, next.
[21:55:00]
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: I want to show you something here and make sure we got it. These are our first responders celebrating our first responders on the front-lines in the hospitals. Look and listen to this.
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CUOMO: Sirens are usually scary, but not here.
More than two dozen New York City police units, rolled by a Brooklyn hospital, to thank their partners in this fight, and they are partners. EMTs are dropping all over the place. 17 percent, 17 percent of the NYPD are out because of COVID. Who knows how many more there'll be?
Also want to see what greeted New Yorkers moments later tonight. Look at this rainbow. Got to remember the rainbows! Got to remember the rainbows! Got to remember, as Mattie Joseph Thaddeus Stepanek, the child poet, who left us way too soon, reminded, you've got to learn to play after every storm. We're going through a storm right now.
