Return to Transcripts main page
Cuomo Prime Time
Trump Halts U.S. Funding To World Health Organization; Trump Says Some States Could Reopen Before May 1 After He Extended Distancing Guidelines To April 30; Study: Social Distancing May Last Into 2022 Without Vaccine. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 14, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: I was able to be there at the end. And it makes a huge difference to - for family members, and also, obviously, for the person who, you know, who's - who's breathing their last, I think, to feel that.
One of the things at the end that you said on - on the video, you said something I thought it was just really important. You said, "We can all make it through this, if - if we all stick together."
And I think that's such an important message, especially at a time when so many of us are physically distant from other people.
D'NEIL SCHMALL, NURSE TREATING COVID-19 PATIENTS: Yes. Yes, we all - we do. We all have to stick together. We all have to stick together and do our part. That's the only way we're going to make it through, through this entire thing for sure.
COOPER: Well, D'neil, I really appreciate you - you talking with us. And - and I really appreciate all you're doing. And it sounds like a small thing. But - but thank you.
SCHMALL: Yes. I really appreciate. Thank you so much.
COOPER: The news continues. Want to hand it over to Chris for CUOMO PRIME TIME. Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: God bless her, and every one of the brothers and sisters on the front-lines, doing everything they can to help people die with dignity, and to help us make it through these horrible times. Anderson, thank you for highlighting that story.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
We have a reason for hope. But we also have new cause for concern. It is good that this President backed off his wrong-headed notion that he could compel the states to open up. He did that today. He backed off. That's good. Don't chase him on that, because we do have new cause for concern.
This President can't talk about states as "Us" and "Them." All governments must come together as one right now. We need to be on one page with one plan about what to try, where, and how.
The April 30th guideline to keep social distancing, set by the Administration, clearly, it has to be extended. Why encourage states to open before that, if there's no plan for it? His own health experts say, "We're not ready." So, it's obvious to all of us, so is the need for a plan.
We're going to ask Governor of Ohio, why does he need a plan? What happens if he opens too soon? Perspective, from the ground, OK?
Together, as ever as one, if we're on the same page, we'll make it through together. So, let's get after it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, we got to be fair. When the President backs off on something, and eases the pressure, good, but we need to be facts first. We know there's a cover-up attempt going on here.
This President doesn't want to own his own actions. It's not about "Gotcha." It's about getting to a better place.
And the President's decision, to halt funding to the World Health Organization blaming them now, "They're the ones who dropped the ball. They didn't do things soon enough. They were too soft on China from the start," listen to how he put it, key word, "Tonight."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The WHO willingly took China's assurances to face value, and they took it just at face value, and defended the actions of the Chinese government, even praising China, for its so-called transparency. I don't think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: OK, two points. One, he refused to take what was offered to him as face value here, and it was a mistake. Second, praising China for transparency, he says, "I don't think so."
Really? Listen to what he said about China when he was doing his initial statement assessment.
"China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American people, I want to thank President Xi."
He's also on tape saying the same thing. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I spoke with President Xi and they're working very, very hard, and I think it's going to all work out fine.
I spoke with President Xi of China, and he's working very hard on this. It's a tremendous problem. But they're very capable, and they'll - they'll get to it.
I think he's doing it very professionally.
I know this. President Xi loves the people of China. He loves his country. And he's doing a very good job with a very, very tough situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: OK. So, you can't halt funding to the World Health Organization for doing, at worst, exactly what you did, vis-a-vis China. But, most importantly, we can't weaken our connections to the rest of the world right now.
This has been an ugly and sad reminder of just how interconnected we all are, just how profound the interdependence is. Don't blame the WHO for your own misgivings and your own inaction or a distraction. We don't need that right now, OK?
[21:05:00]
So, again, let's balance what he's doing that's wrong, and what we like to see. We like him backing off his proclaimed, quote, "Total authority," over the states. Why? Because he doesn't have it, and it's important for him to recognize that.
But, in that context, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will be speaking to all 50 governors very shortly, and I will then be authorizing each individual governor of each individual state to implement a reopening, and a very powerful reopening plan of their state at a time and in a manner as most appropriate.
The day will be very close because certain states, as you know, are in much different condition and in a much different place than other states. It's going to be very, very close, maybe even before the date of May 1st.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: OK, straight-talk, something is clear in this statement, and then it gets very wishy-washy, and we have to talk about both.
What's clear is that he thinks he gets to authorize the states. He doesn't. The power resides within the states, OK? He knows that. But he's not completely owning it, because he wants to play strong. But that takes us to the wishy-washy part.
"It's going to happen soon, maybe before the date," how? How? How? What is the plan? I don't want to hear big plan. I don't want to hear booming plan. I don't want to have amazing plan. Plan, what is the plan?
You must work together top-down how to open different places with layers, OK, of testing, tracing, and treatment. Where the states can't handle it he's got to fill in the gaps, where they can, he can move off.
Each state, each region is going to be different situations, all about the plan, OK? That's all that matters here.
So, let's bring in Ohio Governor, Mike DeWine, on what he sees as the way forward and necessities of our realities right now.
Welcome back to PRIME TIME, Governor. I'm sorry, in advance--
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): Hey, Chris.
CUOMO: --for borrowing some of your thoughts. I've been reading what you've been saying. It's very intelligent.
You are obsessed with the "How" and rightly so. Do you agree with me that it is good news to hear the President back off his assumption that he can tell you what to do, and when, when it comes to reopening.
DEWINE: Well Chris, you and I've talked about this a little bit before. But, you know, what the public misses is that there is a lot of communication going on between the President and the Vice President.
I was on a conference call with the Vice President for an hour and a half this week, and most governors, 40-some governors were on there.
So, in - in those calls, not out in the public, but in those calls that the public doesn't really see, there's great candor. There's great give-and-take. The Vice President is phenomenal on there listening, trying to be helpful, and it is back-and-forth.
And we are, as we keep saying, we're all in this together. And it's, you know, it's similar to what I do in Ohio with our - our mayors.
They have been great and, you know, they tell me information, and I take that information, and I'm able to use that. And they have problems, we try to help them with their problems. So, it's we are--
CUOMO: I respect the desire for synergy.
DEWINE: --in this together. We really are.
CUOMO: I respect it. I respect the collective notion.
DEWINE: Yes.
CUOMO: I think it's good. But I just want to be clear.
If he were to tell you to reopen, and it wasn't in the interest of Ohioans, you would be able to say "No. This is a right reserved to the State." So, the key part becomes well what is asked, and how? Where are we in terms of a plan that works with what Governor DeWine
can do in Ohio, what he needs from the Fed in terms of testing, tracing, and treatment, to enable any type of semblance of normal to come back anytime soon?
DEWINE: Well Chris, you're - you've nailed it.
You know, we have to have the testing. We have to have the tracing. The tracing, you know, we're building that capacity up. We can do that with - with people. But the testing is a lot better than where we were two weeks ago. But we got a ways to go.
I got a call tomorrow morning, at 6:30 in the morning, I'm going to be talking to some of the doctors and some of the key hospitals around the State, and that's one of the questions I'm going to ask them, frankly is, you know, how much more can we ramp up this testing.
We are going to do something in Ohio in a couple of - a couple of weeks. We're going to go out. We've got a company that's going to do this with us, and we're going to test 1,200 people at random around Ohio.
[21:10:00]
And one of the things that's going to tell us because you know all the testing now that we're doing is people who have symptoms, people who we think--
CUOMO: Right.
DEWINE: --you know, very well could test positive. But a random sampling is going to tell us, we think, what percentage of the people of Ohio actually already had the virus, and we don't know that.
CUOMO: So smart. So smart.
DEWINE: I don't have any data on that.
CUOMO: So smart to do that to figure out--
DEWINE: But - but that's going to help us. And so--
CUOMO: --who's had it, who has antibodies.
DEWINE: Yes.
CUOMO: So smart, Governor, and that's one of the things that keeps you ahead of the curve.
Here's the hard part for you. You're flattening the curve. You're doing the right things. But it gives people even more reason to say "Good, Guv! Let's get back to normal. You just said we're flattening the curve. Let's open up the economy again."
DEWINE: Sure.
CUOMO: "We did it. We did it. Great! Let's celebrate by opening back up."
Now, that sounds good, it feels good, Governor. But what do you have to deliver as the reality for people who are anxious to get back?
DEWINE: Well one of the things I said to the people of the State, I talk to them every - every day at 2 o'clock. I can't believe people in the middle afternoon actually watch it. But - but apparently some people do.
But one of the things I said is "Look, until we have a vaccine, we're not going to be totally back to normal. You know, that virus is going to continue to be here."
We made some real progress. We've had about a week where our admissions to the hospitals in Ohio have been flat, every day about the same.
CUOMO: Thank God.
DEWINE: So, we think we've hit a plateau. And so, we've made some progress. But we don't know how long that's going to take till it really starts - starts to go down.
But even when we start back in, the virus is still there. People who have a medical problem are going to be very susceptible to higher - higher percentage of death, same way with people as - as they get older.
So, one of the things we talked about today with Ohioans is, you know, the business community, we're not sure when this is going to happen. But now is the time really to plan. And I know that they're doing that because we have conference calls with--
CUOMO: Good.
DEWINE: My Lieutenant Governor Jon Husted's doing a great job. He was on the phone today and yesterday with business. How are you going to open up, you know, what are you going to do to protect your workers? I - I was talking today to--
CUOMO: Absolutely.
DEWINE: --a - if I could do this real quick, a friend of mine, who's got a company. It's a manufacturer in the Eastern part of the State. They're open because they're essential business. And I said "How are you doing?"
He's probably got eight - 800 - a 1,000 employees. And he told me all the elaborate things they had done to protect those employees. It was just astounding. And I said, "Well how many people have come down with it?" And he said, "None."
Now that's - part of that's luck, part of that's just chance, but it's also it demonstrates, I think, that business can really set this up, so that when they come back, they're doing - they're protecting their employees, and - and-- CUOMO: Oh absolutely. I think it's going to be key.
DEWINE: --they just want - they want to protect their employees.
CUOMO: I think - of course. It's good business.
DEWINE: No - and no one wants - no ones want to go to work if they're--
CUOMO: And it's good humanity.
DEWINE: --if they're cared.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
DEWINE: It's both. It is.
CUOMO: Because they're going to reinforce the confidence of their workers. You'll have redundancies in some places.
But let's be honest, about half this country, certainly in Ohio, gets its health insurance from private employers already, so it's in their vested interest to follow-up on this.
And you having those kinds of relationships will make it that much more smooth a transition because it's going to have to be layered. Nobody can carry the entire burden. We're learning that.
DEWINE: Well that's for sure.
CUOMO: Let me ask you a quick question. I know it sounds a little trivial, but it's so huge for people, especially in Ohio, the return of sport. Now, that means what? Mass gatherings.
DEWINE: Well that's not trivial.
CUOMO: I know. It's - but I'm saying it's a big deal for people, right?
DEWINE: Yes. It's a big deal.
CUOMO: And do you believe that could be one of the things that comes first or do you think the first big kind of thing other than work would be school?
DEWINE: I think the sad thing is that the - for those of us who love sports, and I'm a - I'm a Reds fan, love to go see the innings well - Ohio State Buckeyes in the fall. I - I think that when you get--
CUOMO: Uh-oh, OK.
DEWINE: We've done--
CUOMO: We lost. Oh, he's back. Oh, is he back or is he gone? There you go. Finish your point, Governor, thank you. DEWINE: Oh, yes. All I was going to say is that, you know, until we get a vaccine, until we get a vaccine, people going to a big sporting event, who are 70-years-old, and may have asthma, or may have some other medical problem, it's just probably not a good idea.
And that's a - that's a tough thing to say. But I think everyone's going to have to realize until we get the vaccine, it's still a different world.
CUOMO: Leadership is about saying the right thing, whether or not it sounds good in the moment, or not. And you've been a shining example of that for your State in Ohio. Governor Mike DeWine, thank you so much, Republican from Ohio, thank you for joining us, continued success to you and your State.
DEWINE: Good luck to you, Chris.
CUOMO: You'll always have this platform. Thank you, Sir, I'm doing better than I deserve.
DEWINE: Thank you very much, yes, sure.
[21:15:00]
CUOMO: All right, so whether you talk to DeWine, Republican in Ohio, Cuomo, Democrat in New York, or any kind of politician in between, who's in charge, they're going to hit you with the word "Testing" within about 10 words of any kind of notion of reopening.
How do we expand capacities? Our test kits, our lab process, capacity, and speed, human hands, for contact-tracing and making person-to- person contact, capacity, all of those factors are the deciding group of factors of what happens next.
So, is there progress in this new saliva test that the FDA just authorized? Could this be a fast track? Let's put it to Dr. Sanjay Gupta. What does he see as the good news and what is he still holding out caution about? Next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, I'm so happy. I'm just reading a text from Lauren Mandel. We've been checking in with her. She's got Coronavirus. Her father - her husband's got Coronavirus. She's got the four kids that they're balancing.
We got them a package of some essentials today because she had to empty out her - her refrigerator, the whole thing, because one of her kids, one of the little ones probably, left it open overnight, so she had to get rid of the food they did have.
So, she's just letting me know now they got our first care package. So many of you wanted to be so generous to them. Thank you. Thank you for showing that connection to help out someone you don't even know. The Mandels appreciate it.
All right, the President is right about one thing. The United States does contribute more than any other nation to the World Health Organization, more than $550 million went to that Organization last year, combating disease around the globe.
So, now, here's the proposition. Did the WHO arguably make mistakes? I say, yes. But nothing that Trump didn't approximate here at home. So, the question becomes is the President making this better at all or worse?
Let's talk about that and some other pressing issues that are going on with our public healthcare policy. Dr. Sanjay Gupta back in the house.
Good to see you, Sanjay.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Chris, you too.
CUOMO: If we do not give the money to the WHO in the same amount, as we usually do, what good can come from that?
GUPTA: Well, you know, I think you framed it right, Chris. I mean there certainly, I think, were some missteps by the WHO. And, in fact, as you know, you know, we called it a pandemic before they did.
There was probably evidence of human-to-human transmission. That was pretty clear once you actually go back and look at the scientific journals that the WHO did not, you know, call out at that time. So, you know, it's - it's - there's clearly some missteps.
But if you really want to cut funding to the WHO, in the middle of a pandemic, all these studies, Chris, we keep talking about, the medications that you've asked about, a lot of those studies are being done under the auspices of the WHO, the reason being that any single institution may not have enough patients to get meaningful results, you got to start consolidating all this data.
Who does that? WHO does a lot of that.
The other thing Chris, just this is more of a subjective thing, but you know who always ends up getting penalized when funding cuts like this happen are countries that are - that are - have weaker healthcare systems that are more dependent on the WHO for everything, from testing to other diagnostics, to even some of the setting up some of the basic care.
So, who are you really penalizing by these cuts as well, I think, is a question worth asking. There's going to need to be an evaluation of exactly how this was all handled. I'm not sure now is the right time to--
CUOMO: Right.
GUPTA: --make these cuts, Chris.
CUOMO: Well, look, he's making the cuts because this is a misdirection play from his own misdeeds. But the problem is it's coming with a price tag that's going to make things worse. It's not just finding a scapegoat.
GUPTA: Correct.
CUOMO: He wants to find a scapegoat - to the Democrats or to us.
Let me ask you about a couple of things that may get us out of this jam. I read today--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --that the antibody test that the Administration was saying is going to come very soon, "No" say the scientists that it's a work in progress. Why is it so hard to get an antibody test? And why do we need it?
GUPTA: Well there was a, you know, it's interesting. There was some emergency authorization sort of releases of antibody tests.
I think there's been a rush, I mean, some of it understandable, to try and get some of these tests out there. The problem was that those tests ended up not being very good tests.
I mean there was a lot of people who suddenly, without having to really show evidence that their tests work, without having to be validated, they started selling their tests, and they started getting really questionable results back.
That's a problem. Someone has told that they have antibodies, and they don't, what happens? They think "Well I have antibodies. I'm - I'm immune."
CUOMO: They think they're immune, and they're not.
GUPTA: "I can go do whatever I want."
CUOMO: And they get sick. What's so tricky--
GUPTA: They're not.
CUOMO: --about making the tests accurate?
GUPTA: It shouldn't actually be that tricky. I think it's a question of really being able to scale it up, making it something that people can do in their own home.
This is all it is. It's a strip. It has some of the proteins from the virus on it. You take your blood. You put it on that strip. If your blood has antibodies, it reacts to the proteins of that virus, and you see a change in the strip.
It's pretty - it's like a pregnancy test almost, except in this case, you're looking for the presence of antibodies reacting to the virus. It's not that hard. It's a question of making sure it works and being able to scale it up.
CUOMO: Science takes time. This saliva test, what's the plus/minus on that?
GUPTA: Another interesting test. I think this could be big, Chris. I will say a preface, not to throw any - any cold water on it, but another emergency authorization. There's this push to emergency- authorize these tests.
And again, I - it's understandable. This one is like if you ever done one of the genetics' tests, like Ancestry or something, you - you create - you get some saliva, you spit into a little vial essentially. That's what we're talking about here.
[21:25:00]
It was validated by basically doing the saliva test, comparing it to 60 swab tests, and it came out a 100 percent concordance. So, it worked as well as the swabs, at least in that small test.
A lot more comfortable too. You've gone through the swab test. I have not. That's - that's uncomfortable, I know.
Couple caveats. One is that it has to, as of now, be done in a hospital in a - in a clinical setting. So, you know, person's still got to make a trip, which I think has to change, first thing. I think, you know, could this be an use of Telehealth, for example, so someone can actually talk you through doing it.
The other thing is if it comes back negative, then it's got to be validated by the swab test. So, you know, this is still a little bit of a work in progress and so. But all of this--
CUOMO: Ah!
GUPTA: --is to try and figure out like when somebody might actually be free and clear of the virus. You know, the other way to do that obviously, as you know Chris, is to sort of monitor yourself at home.
CUOMO: Right.
GUPTA: And - and I know you were trying to do the 72 hours with, and see if you had a fever that came back, and I was kept - keeping my fingers crossed. We talked over the weekend. How did it go? Were you able to go 72 hours?
CUOMO: No. I got close. I got to 60.
And I have to be honest, I got a little cocky. I started thinking about "Oh great! I can't wait! I want to get retested and then I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do that, and then I'm going to do this."
It's not the way COVID works. The more I learn anecdotally, and from the clinicians who are treating it, it comes in waves. And you can have - I went off Tylenol, and my fever was bouncing around, but was in the range of normal for 60 hours.
And then, the fever came back, and I got a 101 for about two hours or so, and it went back down. And now, I'm doing OK. You know, I'm sweating, you know. It's kind of par for the course. My breathing, much better.
So, I'm still super-lucky, super-blessed, compared to so many of the other people I've heard about. But I got to start again. And I mean that's just how it goes.
My body's not ready till it's ready. And all I know is I'm going to throw everything I can at this. I do the breathing exercises. I think that's why it's helping my lungs. And the fever--
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: --I just got to chill and let my body do what it does. But that stung a little bit. But it just made me remember that nothing comes for free.
GUPTA: Well Chris, you know, I've been worried about you, a little concerned. I get so many emails about you as well. But I appreciate you talking about these symptoms. You got me on speed dial.
And let me just say as well, you know, the reason you were doing that, for viewers who don't know, in order for someone to feel like - if they're at home, and have been tested positive, there's three things that - that the docs really look forward to see if you might be able to stop isolation.
No fever for 72 hours without Tylenol, your respiratory symptoms having improved or completely gone away, and then that - that has to have taken place at least seven days without - seven days since your symptoms began, you have to be symptom-free.
So, you're not there yet. And I know it's been over two weeks now, buddy, so really thinking about you.
CUOMO: I am so lucky, and this has been made so easy for me, here at home with Cristina and, you know, and that's my biggest concern that, you know, she doesn't go the wrong way, the kids don't go the wrong way.
But I'm blessed with being able to do this so much easier than so many other people. And I heard from all these people today about how close they had come to 72 hours, and then when they finally made it, but then their cough came back, people are struggling all over this country. I hear those struggles.
GUPTA: Yes.
CUOMO: Thank you for reaching out to me. Any information that I can give that's helpful, it makes all of this worthwhile.
And that goes for you too, Sanjay. You've helped me know so much more every step of the way. No matter how long it takes, we'll get through it. We'll get through it together. I'm good with that.
GUPTA: Call me anytime. Love you, brother.
CUOMO: Love you, love you.
All right, the virus has infected all 50 states. We really are all in it together. Now, I - my pitch changed there. Why? Because there is this assumption that some parts of the country are way better off than others.
Let's say if you were to live in a place like South Dakota, OK, sparse, there're only a few dense population areas, there they'll probably be better off than everywhere else. Then why are cases exploding? And there is still no statewide order to stay home.
So, a Mayor is sounding the alarm. He's saying "We are not immune. We are not different." He's warning his Governor that time for mitigation is running out. He's wanting to makes - he wants to make the case to you. Let's give him the opportunity.
The Mayor, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, I want to take something on with you because it matters. The President relies very heavily, and a lot of you have picked up this message, and made it your own, that inside the Coasts, America holds a very different and better reality, when it comes to COVID.
Now, look, the President's made a lot of currency off the politics of "Us versus them" and the "Coast versus their Middle States," and the "Red versus the Blue." That stuff doesn't stand up to the practicalities of a pandemic, OK?
Inside the Coasts, COVID is already there. Two-thirds of rural counties around this country, our brothers and sisters, report at least one case. Now, you say, "Oh, one case, who cares?"
Come on! It's never one and done. We haven't seen it anywhere. I know the President promised that early on. It wasn't true then. It hasn't been true anywhere at any time.
The reality, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, an outbreak at the Smithfield pork plant threatens them now, and an already strained food supply for the rest of the nation, OK?
[21:35:00]
The Mayor of Sioux Falls is Republican Paul TenHaken, and he's pushing for a stay-at-home order despite his Governor's hard "No."
Mayor, welcome to PRIME TIME. Thank you for making the case. I'm sorry to meet you under these circumstances. But I want full information for the people where you live, and beyond.
MAYOR PAUL TENHAKEN, SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA: Yes, Chris, you bet. Thanks for having me on, man, appreciate it.
CUOMO: Pleasure is mine.
So, the Governor says, looking up his rationales, "Listen man, the balance of fairness here, the equities, we don't need to lock it down. We need to be conscientious. We need to look out for ourselves, and how we're doing, and take the appropriate steps, but we don't need to shut down like these other big states."
Your response?
TENHAKEN: Well, you know, I think there is some validity to our Governor's approach. I need to lead by saying that. You know, we - we are a state of 850,000 people.
But in the Sioux Falls MSA, we're knocking on 300,000 people. So, the density of our State is really in my two counties. So, a blanket, I guess, shelter-in-place or stay-at-home order for our State does not make sense, and so I am in agreement with our Governor on that.
What I am seeing though is based on the - the hotbed of cases that we're experiencing right now in our city. We have a doubling rate of every four days for about the past 18 days. So, at that doubling rate, we need to act, and we need to do more.
And so, I'm - I'm asking for more from the State. But in absence of that, we're going to do some things on the local level, as well, if we can.
CUOMO: Well first, please feel free, now, and going forward, to let us know what you need, so we can put out the word, and it can be picked up by other municipalities and states. Is there anything that you're dangerously short of right now in terms
of capacity or coping mechanisms?
TENHAKEN: You know, our PPE, our hospital capacity, right now, is it's - it's a little bit of the calm before the storm, I'll be honest with you. I mean I'm in touch with our healthcare providers on the regular. And, you know, we're kind of waiting for a surge.
But our surge, we're in kind of the first inning of that, where well like I said, we've doubled every four days for the last 18 days.
We now almost have a 1,000 cases in South Dakota. But 800 of those are in Minnehaha and Lincoln County, that's where Sioux Falls is. So, we're feeling the - the brunt of that right now in the Southeast corner of the State.
We're preparing for that surge. And we're also trying to do some enhanced mitigation strategies to try and flatten that because, right now, it's not a curve. It's a spike, and we need to get on top of that.
CUOMO: So, let's do this. After the interview, I'll make sure the producers give you my number. If you get in a PPE--
TENHAKEN: Great.
CUOMO: --hole, and you want to find fast resources, I'll help you network through New York State, and some of the other high-volume states, to see what's out there, in terms of gowns, masks, visors, gloves, and foot coverings.
Those - all those things will move in different ratios. We've seen it wildly move for different places in different percentages, which is weird. But we're here to help.
Now, in terms of what you're seeing--
TENHAKEN: Well that means a lot.
CUOMO: Oh absolutely, Mayor. I mean that's - that's why we're doing this. If I can get you guys, resources, you know, we're all brothers and sisters in this.
TENHAKEN: Amen.
CUOMO: In terms of what you're seeing with the doubling of cases, what is it looking like on the ground? What kind of people are getting hit? What are you worried about?
TENHAKEN: Well you - you alluded to it in your setup here that we have a large pork packing plant.
I believe it's the third largest pork packing plant in the country that got hit hard, and got hit quickly. And we have north of 400 of those 800 cases in our County are attributed to the employees of that pork plant. So, having to stand up and ask one of your largest employers to - to close their doors for a period of time is - it's gut-wrenching, man. I mean the - the effect on the people who work there, and the economy, the upstream and downstream supply chain, it's pretty incredible right now.
And so, what we're seeing on the ground is almost two types of cases. We have the Smithfield outbreak, which we're dealing with separately almost, and then we have all the other cases that we're seeing grow in the community as well.
CUOMO: And look, it just keeps growing and expanding because, you know, to your earlier point, the Governor is right. Right now, you don't need statewide coverage. But you're in the population center. And so, you're going to have all this intercourse.
TENHAKEN: Right.
CUOMO: You're going to have the trucks in and out on the roads that people who come to work, or go to visit other people, the food that gets delivered to other places, and what's on the packaging, and the communication rate can be exponential, so you have to get it early.
And Mr. Mayor, you let us know how to help, and we will. And you look young and healthy. I say God bless your family. I hope they haven't been touched by this yet. And I hope they don't get touched by it either.
TENHAKEN: Amen! Amen! Thanks, Chris. You keep getting better too, man. I appreciate the time.
CUOMO: Thank you. I'm one of the lucky ones.
TENHAKEN: Yes.
CUOMO: Mayor TenHaken, you'll get my number. We'll do it right now on the break. I'm a call away. I wish you the best.
TENHAKEN: Got it. Thank you, Sir.
[21:40:00]
CUOMO: All right, what is normal? I don't know. I mean it's been totally thrown upside down for me in my life. And when people get sick with this, I hear about so many humbling changes. But what does normal mean to you?
Some closely studying this virus think that things may really change culturally for like a long time. What - is this panic? What's the practicality? Is there a middle ground? They're all good questions.
And we have somebody, who is a top detective of diseases, who've been looking - who's been looking at exactly this. Best new information and answers to the questions of "Normal," next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:00]
CUOMO: We're all asking a lot of the same stuff right now, and there aren't a lot of good answers. Is this the new normal? Is this how it's going to be? No. I can't always be in my basement. You can't always be in your house. We got to get back to work?
What will normal look like? A new Harvard study suggests the U.S. may have to continue social distancing through 2022. Now, that's a banging headline, right? There has to be nuance within that. It has to mean different things in different ways.
So, to help us figure out what it means specifically, in different situations, is one of the Authors of the story, the study rather, Dr. Marc Lipsitch.
Thank you, Doctor, for coming on PRIME TIME.
MARC LIPSITCH, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Thanks for having me, Chris.
CUOMO: So, big headline, big pushback. No way can we stay like this for a year and eight months or something. We can't do it.
So, when you talk about 2022, what specifically are we talking about? Give me the different permutations and different potential outcomes and versions of distancing?
LIPSITCH: Yes. So, what we tried to do was to figure out, first, whether we - whether the single shot of social distancing that - that we're undergoing now would be enough to get us through the pandemic without overwhelming the healthcare system.
And the answer is very clearly no because at this point we are at the beginning of an epidemic that - that still has a long way to go. There are a lot of susceptible people. The best estimates are the vast majority are still susceptible in the United States, and most other places.
And that means that if the virus is around in a few people, and we aren't imposing control measures, it will resurge. And if we let it resurge--
CUOMO: All right, so-- LIPSITCH: --fully, then--
CUOMO: --let's take a look at that. So--
LIPSITCH: --then we will have a big problem.
CUOMO: I understand. Let's - let's look at that through the context of "But it's flattening in places like New York and other population centers. And that suggests to people that it is working, and we should therefore be able to get back to normal."
What are we missing in that thought?
LIPSITCH: Yes. I mean it's a little bit like saying if you are on a downhill slope, and you push on the brake, and you start to slow down, then that means that you don't need to have the brake anymore, and that's just not true.
I mean the - the nature of infectious diseases, which we've seen in other epidemics, other pandemics, other infectious diseases, is that when you have measures to stop transmission, like the ones we have now, it slows transmission. They work.
But the issue is that unfortunately there's no memory in the system. There's no - they don't work permanently. What they do is to slow the spread from infectious to susceptible people.
But until we build up a certain amount of immunity in the population, sometimes called herd immunity, the system can start the - the epidemic can start up again. And so, that's the--
CUOMO: But what about antibodies?
LIPSITCH: --shared vision (ph).
CUOMO: What about medicine? What about vaccines and all these other things that we use for the flu? Can't that be the answer here and reduce the need for this distancing?
LIPSITCH: I very much hope so.
And - and, to be clear, there - the paper is not an endorsement of a policy of long-term intermittent on and off social distancing. It's trying to figure out whether that policy would work and to control the spread and - and to stimulate ideas for how to get us out of it that are less disruptive than that.
So indeed, if we could find therapeutics or treatments that are ways of making the disease less bad, especially of preventing mild cases, from getting more severe, that would vastly improve our situation.
If we could get a vaccine, that would be a total game-changer. That's a long way off. That's probably almost certainly a year off and - and maybe more, depending on how good the vaccines are, and how fast we can test them. So, I think we've done--
CUOMO: What do you think we'll have to wait on--
LIPSITCH: Yes.
CUOMO: --the longest, Doctor, like what do you think will come back the slowest?
Are we talking about like mass gatherings at a game like, you know, do you think this fall, zero chance that you and I get to joke around about who wins the Harvard-Yale game, or whether the Patriots beat the Jets terribly once or twice?
Do you think that that will happen or, no, you think we won't be ready?
LIPSITCH: I think it's pretty unlikely that there're going to be sports with spectators in the - in the stands this fall and winter. You know, I - I really hope to be wrong.
[21:50:00]
But the only way that I think that's likely to be wrong is if it turns out, and this is a possibility, but a remote one, that there's a lot more immunity in the population than we know about.
And as serological testing, which you were hearing about earlier, gets scaled up, it's possible that we will find that we've done such a limited job of testing that actually there are a lot more people who have had it and become immune than we thought.
If that happens--
CUOMO: Oh, that would be beautiful.
LIPSITCH: --then things will move faster.
That would be beautiful, indeed. But I don't think--
CUOMO: I mean, look - yes.
LIPSITCH: --it's the most likely scenario.
CUOMO: Yes. You know, if - if we - we can hope. But we've got to verify it through science.
I'm hoping that anecdotally would I hear sporadically, from clinicians like you, experts like you, and from people on the ground, is that there are a lot of people in this country who believe they've had it, as far back as November, October.
They had freaky illnesses that mimic the COVID symptoms, but they never got diagnosed with anything because we weren't aware, and we hear about people losing their sense of smell and taste, but having no other symptoms, and they don't get tested because our testing protocols are all screwed up still.
So hopefully, there is a silver lining in that. But Doctor, we got to go on science, and thank you for laying out the hard realities.
LIPSITCH: I hope so. I think that's unlikely.
CUOMO: Dr. Marc Lipsitch, appreciate it.
LIPSITCH: Thank you.
CUOMO: I know. I know. But we'll see. And thank you very much for outlining the realities. We've got to keep it real.
LIPSITCH: All right, now, part of the reality is also the bright lights that we see in dark times.
Look at this beauty. Look at this CUOMO PRIME TIME latest team member to come into the world, the adorable Georgia Elle (ph). Looks with - the picture. There she is. There's Kremen and her husband, Carolyn Kremen (ph).
Now, she is known on the team as Cuomo's Brain. She does the Closing Argument. She's a fact machine. But more than anything else, she is love. She loves her husband. She loves her son, and now Georgia.
And she was nervous, having babies in the middle of Coronavirus. She needed - want to stop working. But yesterday, at 11:27 A.M., eight pounds, five ounces, healthy, beautiful as her mom and her dad.
We miss Carolyn (ph) but not tonight. Tonight, we are so happy for the new member of the family. God bless Georgia. Thank you for the reminder that beautiful things happen, even in dark times, so much.
And hey, thank you, New Jersey healthcare workers, you know, going that extra mile to make sure that Georgia came into the world safely. And to all the healthcare workers, all across the country, you deserve every piece of respect you are getting.
And let's do it all together, together as ever as one, tonight's roar of appreciation in New York City. Listen to the love.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO - NEW YORK CITY STRONG: NIGHTLY CHEER FOR HEALTH HEROES)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Look at that. The City comes alive every night, same time, same reason. I love it.
This is how we get through it, and by doing what we need to do to ease the strain on those people, which is to suck it up, and do what's hard, and do what's boring, even though we want to get back. If you want to show your appreciation, we got to keep doing what's working.
Now ahead, another thing we have to do, we have to highlight the Ameri-CANs, the people around us who are going beyond, and we've got to call out the Ameri-CAN'Ts. You cannot take advantage of people, not now. We've got both, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right, man, you know the pledge, right? I'll tell you the information. We'll keep things real together. A lot of the Ameri-CANs and the Ameri-CAN'Ts come from you, so thank you for the leads.
Tonight's first Ameri-CAN'Ts, OK? Now, this first one has the ear of the President but doesn't seem to be listening to basic advice from medical professionals. That would be the Acting Director of National Intelligence, Richard Grenell.
He shared this bit of snark on his Instagram feed. Listen to this. A copy of the Constitution with the headline, "Signed permission slip to leave your house, zing."
Listen, 25,000 Americans lost their lives to this. You don't pretend like martial law is in effect, please. No one's stopping you from going to the grocery store to buy food. The world is simply begging you not to be reckless.
And as a Member of the Cabinet, we put you guys there, and we give you the respect of being the best of us, especially as a National Security team. This is one of the biggest threats we face right now. You got to be better than this, brother, all right?
Another Ameri-CAN'T, this one actually coming from foreigners who tried to pull off this stupid scam against U.S. hospitals, all right? They work in U.S. hospitals over those N95 masks. They tried to swindle healthcare systems into buying nearly 40 million masks that they claimed were already in the U.S.
I've seen this scam multiple times, trying to do procurement for New York State. They wanted massive deposits up front. That's what they tell you. "I can get you a special deal but you need to pay me right away."
A DoJ Task Force started digging in, tracked down a Pennsylvania middle-man who apparently didn't know he was a dupe for companies in Australia and Kuwait. That's what he says right now. We'll see what the investigation yields. He is cooperating with investigators. I may believe that, by the way. I've seen people who got approached
here as middle-man and they got bad information. The good news is the fraud was stopped before any hospital wasted its money. But we don't have the time either. So that's why there's already an injury.
Now, Ameri-CANs, NFL Great Drew Brees and his wife, Brittany, Drew and Brittany, they live in New Orleans, of course, and the iconic Saints Quarterback recently announced that they are donating $5 million to the State of Louisiana.
