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Study: People Appear More Infectious Before Showing Symptoms; Dr. Dan Barouch, Vaccine Developer, Discusses Vaccine Timeline, Progress, Obstacles; California Reveals Grim Blueprint For Life After Reopening; CDC: 9,200-Plus Health Care Workers Have Been Infected; Interview With Kathryn Barger, Los Angeles County Board Of Supervisors Chair; Dr. Patrice Harris, American Medical Association President, Discusses The CDC Director Praising WHO After Trump Halted Funding. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired April 15, 2020 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The fact that this disease, this infection can spread before people show symptoms is huge. It means that people don't even know that they shouldn't go out there and see other people.
And that's why you hear Governor Cuomo and others calling for people to wear masks. Just because you feel well does not mean that you're not infected.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Right. And we know that asymptomatic people can infect others from early days. We just didn't know the extent to which that the, according to this study, the most infectious is before the symptoms.
The CDC also has new data out about how sick some of those on the front lines have become. What are they saying?
COHEN: Right. This is a report that came out yesterday. And what it found was that more than 9,200 health care workers have become infected. And Anderson, I will tell you that is for sure an underestimate, for all sorts of statistical reasons, that number is actually going to be considerably larger.
And what they found is that there were also people who were hospitalized, health care workers who were hospitalized, and about 27 health care workers who died. But again, those numbers are underestimates. And these are the people who are risking their lives to take care of the rest of us.
And so, we need to figure out a better way to protect them.
COOPER: Yes.
And you referenced this, Elizabeth, with the governor saying also that now he's going to put out an executive order that, out of the public now, anybody out in public in areas where they can't maintain social distancing has to wear a mask. If they're walking down the street and the street is crowded, they have to wear a mask. If they're at a crosswalk and can't maintain six feet, they should.
Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.
Drew Griffin, as well.
Scientists at the National Institutes of Health say they are hoping to have a public vaccine for COVID-19 in about eight months. That's assuming the trials pan out, go as planned.
I spoke with the lead researcher from that team, , about the process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. KIZZMEKIA CORBETT, VIRAL IMMUNOLOGIST, VACCINE RESEARCH CENTER, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: Here in this first phase, we are testing the safety of the vaccine. That is just a simple question: Is the vaccine safe to use in people?
And then there's a stepwise introduction of the vaccine for other end points, like does the vaccine work? Does it create an immune-response? Does it protect people from infection? And those are second and third- phase studies that are to happen somewhat simultaneously but after getting data that allows us to move forward in that process.
So, overall, our goal in the beginning was to go from sequence through to general population at best in 18 months. It's looking like we are on track for that.
COOPER: I'm sure you get this question from anybody you meet who finds out what you do. Any idea when a vaccine -- assuming that this vaccine works, when it might be available for use?
CORBETT: Yes. So, you know, we are targeting fall -- I'm sorry, we are targeting fall for the emergency use. So, that would be for health care workers and people who might be in constant contact and risk of being exposed over and over.
And then, for the general population, our target goal is for next spring. And that is if all things go well and if these, phase one, phase two, and phase three, clinical trials work simultaneously for the good, our plan is to have people vaccinated all over the world by next spring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The effort at the National Institutes of Health is one of dozens around the world that includes my next guest and his team, Dr. Dan -- Dan Barouch.
Dan, I'm sorry, how do you pronounce your last name?
DR. DAN BAROUCH, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR VIROLOGY AND VACCINE RESEARCH, BETH ISRAEL DEACONESS MEDICAL CENTER, BOSTON & PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: Dan Barouch.
COOPER: Dan Barouch, OK, sorry. I wanted to make sure I get it right. Dan is director of the center for virology and vaccine research at
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston and a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Thanks so much for being with us.
I wanted to ask your opinion about when you think we might actually see a vaccine, because I mean, it's -- the year to 18 months that people have been talking about, that seems very quick to me.
BAROUCH: Thank you, Anderson. It's good to be here.
Vaccine development is traditionally a slow process. It often takes years or even decades to make a vaccine.
Here, multiple groups are trying to develop a vaccine in approximately a year for a general public use. That is unprecedented in the history of vaccinology. The goal, however, is not to cut corners. The goal is to do things in parallel as much as possible.
COOPER: Can you explain just the science of how vaccines work?
BAROUCH: Sure. A vaccine -- the goal of a vaccine is to generate an immune response in the individual, an immune response that will be able to either prevent infection or prevent disease from an incoming pathogen.
So, for example, for COVID-19, the goal will be to induce COVID-19- specific antibodies as well as "T" cells. And those immune responses would be thought to then either prevent infection with the virus or prevent induction of disease, if infection occurs.
[13:35:11]
COOPER: There's a new study in "Nature Medicine" that says there's a growing body of evidence that people are most infectious before they show symptoMs. Does that sort of go in line with what we've known so far?
BAROUCH: The explosive nature of this virus, as well as the clear evidence of asymptomatic spread, which is further evidence in this recent article, really demonstrates that it might be, that a vaccine might be needed to end this pandemic.
(CROSSTALK)
BAROUCH: The fact that --
(CROSSTALK)
BAROUCH: -- asymptomatic individuals can transmit infection really furthers the idea that the traditional public health measures of isolation and quarantine and contact tracing will be less effective than if asymptomatic infection did not occur.
COOPER: And what is it that you're working on? BAROUCH: So, we are working on one of a number of different vaccine
strategies that involves the use of a live recombinant vector. In this case, a weakened common cold virus that itself cannot cause disease, but rather it uses a shuttle to bring the COVID-19 spike protein, the main target of antibodies, into cells.
It is very efficient. And this strategy has been used to raise potent and durable antibody responses to other pathogens in the past.
COOPER: And at what point -- where are you? When do you expect to see, for instance, you know, a first-stage clinical trial?
BAROUCH: So, this strategy will likely be in the first phase of clinical trials in September of this year. And after that point, this is a strategy that can be upscaled very quickly. So, the hope is that if everything goes well -- and that is a big if -- if everything goes well, the hope is that this would be ready for emergency use authorization in early 2021.
COOPER: Well, I wish you luck, Dr. Dan Barouch. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
BAROUCH: Thank you.
COOPER: We go to California now, laying out a blueprint for now radically different life in America may be after a staged reopen. We'll have that ahead.
Plus, clusters break outs in two food processing plants in several states, raising fears about supplies and the food supply chain.
And the FBI is warning companies that employees may be faking test results.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:41:54]
COOPER: When California reopens for business, the decision will be influenced by science and health, not politics. That was the vow from the state's governor, Gavin Newsom, as he outlined the six major criteria that have to be met for reopening to take place, everything from expanded testing to providing rules for social distancing.
He also says people should prepare for major changes next time they go to their favorite restaurant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): You may be having dinner with a waiter wearing gloves, maybe a face mask, dinner where the menu is disposable, where the tables, half of the tables in that restaurant no longer appear, where your temperature is checked before you walk into the establishment.
These are likely scenarios. The prospect of mass gatherings is negligible at best until we get to herd immunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kathryn Barger, the chair of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors for the fifth district, with us.
Thank you for being with us.
The governor is saying proposals are a state vision that's going to be realized locally. What steps are you taking now to ensure that L.A. County can meet these standards?
KATHRYN BARGER, CHAIR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: Well, effective midnight tonight, we are going to require anyone going out to a market, pharmacy, any of the essential services that are still open are going to be required to wear face covering or a mask.
COOPER: And let's talk about, kind of elaborate on what the governor was saying there in terms of what life might look like afterwards. I mean, the idea of tens of thousands of people gathering in a stadium, that seems unlikely. I mean, is that unlikely until there's a vaccine?
BARGER: Yes, I believe it is unlikely. I mean, I think that what the governor's outline is, what's going to be our new normal.
And that is that we are probably -- if and when the May 15th, which right now we've extended our safer-at-home to May 15th, is probably going to be a lot different as it relates to going into restaurants. We may have limited capacity in each restaurant and ask them to limit the tables that they are allowing people to sit at and space between them.
But masks clearly are going to be something that I think is here and is going to be here for a while.
COOPER: So, things like bars, nightclubs, gyms, what about that?
BARGER: Well, I think that's way out there. I mean, I think gyms, when we look at the gyms and how they work in terms of the equipment and all, I think that's probably low on the list in terms of what is going to be opened quickly.
But we are looking at areas that are essential -- not even essential business, but small businesses, and look at how they can separate with social distancing to ensure the safety of their workers within the, whether it be a factory, which a lot of them are closed right now, or a small business, to ensure that individuals are not transmitting the virus.
COOPER: And things like, you know, construction industries, large- scale construction, building buildings, renovations, what about that?
BARGER: Well, right now, a lot of our construction was considered essential, a lot of our projects. And so, they have been moving forward. We've been looking to ensure that they are doing social distancing. It's been a little challenging, to say the least. But masks definitely are going to be and are a must at all construction sites.
[13:45:13]
But that has been determined here in L.A. County to be an essential business. So, many of our projects have been moving forward.
COOPER: And in terms of a timetable, President Trump is insisting on a May 1st date. Obviously, that's going to be up to the governors. Do you know, is there a date yet that you have in mind?
BARGER: So, the state has left it open-ended. The county has given May 15th as a certain date, but we recognize that we are hand in hand with the state.
I really appreciate Governor Newsom and how he's outlined what criteria's going to be in place in order for us to begin to bring things back up to operations. And so, we are putting public health first, and that's what you hear in Governor Newsom's response in terms of what needs to be in place.
We need to make sure that we've got everything lined up to ensure really the safety and health of all of our, not only the constituents in L.A. County, over 10 million, but throughout the state.
COOPER: Kathryn Barger, appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
BARGER: Thank you. Thank you.
COOPER: The CDC director praises the World Health Organization after the president halted funding. I'll speak with the American Medical Association who calls the move dangerous at this time.
Plus, the FDA authorizing a new saliva test for the coronavirus. We'll show you how it might work.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:51:27]
COOPER: In the middle of the worst global pandemic in decades, President Trump is taking the extraordinary step of halting funding to the World Health Organization while a review is conducted.
During his announcement, the president criticized how China handled the coronavirus outbreak. But that was in stark contrast to how the president repeatedly praised China back in February.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just spoke to President Xi.
It's a very tough situation but I think he's going to handle it. I think he's handled it well.
I think China is professionally run in the sense that they have everything under control.
(voice-over): I think they've handled it professionally and I think they're extremely capable. And I think President Xi is extremely capable. And I hope it's going to be resolved.
(on camera): I think President Xi is working very hard. I really believe he wants to get that done and get it done fast.
I think President Xi is working very, very hard.
I think he's doing a very good job.
The WHO willingly took China' assurances at face value and took it at face value and defended the actions of the Chinese government, even praising China for its so-called transparency. I don't think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President also praised the transparency.
Now the largest professional association of physicians, American Medical Association, calling the president's decision to halt funding dangerous.
The president of the American Medical Association, Dr. Patrice Harris, joining me now.
Thank you for joining us.
First, who said WHO was a great partner to the U.S. how crucial had the WHO been in fighting COVID?
Dr. PATRICE HARRIS, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Certainly, I will take the doctor's word for the cooperation. We know that the WHO has been involved in distributing, purchasing, distributing masks and test kits. Certainly, very involved in the vaccine trials.
And so during this worst public crisis, as you know, in a century, halting funding to the WHO is a dangerous step in the wrong direction and the ama urges the president to reconsider.
COOPER: There's clearly been issues with the WHO on and off for a long time, and certainly there's valid criticisms of the WHO and their response to and their praise of how China was handling things even though China has clearly been deceptive about the total death toll and other factors, people spoken out have disappeared.
But what does the WHO do that globally that you think is so important?
HARRIS: Anderson, as you say, if there were any credible concerns, and those certainly need to be evaluated, but at this point in time, we just don't think that halting funding is the right move.
Certainly, again, the WHO coordinates the global response, certainly, they offer a technical assistance to developing countries. As you well know, and your audience know, not every country has the
resources that we have in the United States.
Again, very involved in vaccine trials. And the more researchers we have on vaccine trials, the greater opportunity to speed up the development of the vaccine.
And again, the World Health Organization distributed masks and testing kits early on, so they're an important scientific partner. And that's why we have to keep our eyes on the science and the evidence.
[13:55:02]
And, again, any credible concerns can be addressed but we, the AMA, urges the president to reconsider halting funding for the World Health Organization.
COOPER: And withholding funding, where the WHO work is most impactful, probably, I'm guessing, in developing parts of the world that do not have an
infrastructure in a country like the United States, may have -- and that's who's going to end up really suffering, people on the ground, human beings, just in developing countries.
HARRIS: Absolutely, Anderson. But also, we live in a global society and infectious disease outbreak anywhere could negatively impact the United States. And so we should be actively engaged and involved.
And certainly the WHO is an important partner to addressing and fighting this global pandemic, in developing countries, but really in the coordination of efforts across the world.
COOPER: Dr. Patrice Harris, I appreciate all you do. Thanks very much.
HARRIS: Thank you.
COOPER: Still ahead, is the president's signature on the stimulus checks actually delaying their delivery? We'll take a look at that.
Plus, an island community in Florida, one of the wealthiest places, has managed to get coronavirus tests for every resident despite a shortage nationwide.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: I'm Anderson Cooper. Welcome CNN's continuing coverage of the global coronavirus pandemic.
We begin this hour with new details on how easily the coronavirus can spread. Researchers are finding a growing body of evidence people are not just infectious but most infectious before they actually show symptoms. The findings were published in the journal, "Nature Medicine."
This news comes as sources say there's now a belief it will be near impossible to persuade the president not to reopen parts of the economy on May 1st.
[14:00:02]
As that date draws near, the top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is managing expectations saying, quote: there's going to be a great deal of variability.
