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White House to Announce Reopening Guidelines; Business Executives Say More Testing Needed Before Reopening; Thousands Protest Michigan's Stay-Home Order; Experts Say We Don't Have All the Answers on Antibodies; U.K. Curve Flatten, but Country Not him Yet Past Peak; France Reports First Decline in COVID-19 Hospitalizations; Germany to Start Easing Some Restrictions Next Week; Louisiana death toll tops 1,100. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired April 16, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world you are watching CNN NEWSROOM and I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead, with record unemployment and the real risk of recession, Donald Trump is pushing to restart the U.S. economy but mayors and governors are pushing back.

Plus, out of work and running out of life saving medicine. Some Americans forced to make risky choices during this pandemic.

And later, the U.S. Navy says Iranian vessels harass its warships coming within yards of colliding.

Good to have you with us.

So U.S. President Donald Trump is now preparing to unveil new guidelines aimed at reopening the economy, even as a number of governors and mayors across the country warn we won't be getting back to normal any time soon. Now those new guidelines set to be announced by Mr. Trump on Thursday -- that's in just a few hours -- are part of his continued effort to get Americans back to work by May 1st. But he's likely to face pushback from several states that say they're nowhere near opening. Our Jim Acosta has more now from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Trump is expected to unveil new social distancing guidelines on Thursday aimed at reopening parts of the U.S. The President told reporters gathered in the Rose Garden that the new guidelines are geared towards states where the coronavirus pandemic has not been as serious. But the President told reporters that he'll be watching what governors do closely claiming at one point that he has the right to overrule whatever they decide. Here's what he had to say.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have the right to do whatever we want, but we wouldn't do that. But no, we would have the right to close down what they're doing if we want to do that. But we don't want to do that and I don't think there will be any reason to do that, but we have the right to do that.

ACOSTA: The President also expressed frustration with some of his nominees that have been languishing up on Capitol Hill. At one point the President threatened to adjourn Congress to get things moving but it's not sure whether Republicans or Democrats will go along with that idea.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Well, President Trump claims the U.S. has done more coronavirus testing than any other nation. The U.S. has a population of about 329 million people but only 3.2 million Americans have been tested so far according to the COVID Tracking Project. Business leaders and many others fear that's not enough as CNN's Kaitlyn Collins tried to point out to the President at the White House briefing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: On a call with business leaders they said testing has got to be ramped up significantly before the country -- where they feel comfortable reopening their stores, their restaurants and whatnot. Isn't that what health officials and state governors --

TRUMP: That's what I want to and we have great tests. And we want the States to administer the tests for the most part. But we're standing them. We have great tests. We've done more testing now than any country, as you know, in the world by far. We have the best tests of any country in the world. Nobody has the quality of tests.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And while plans for more tests to help get the economy moving are in motion, the mayors of several major U.S. cities say don't expect any major gatherings like sporting events to take place until next year. We're get more now from CNN's Nick Watt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIC GARCETTI, AND LOS ANGELES MAYOR: It's difficult to imagine us getting together in the thousands any time soon.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So no ball games, no concerts here in Los Angeles says the mayor maybe for another year, another year.

ANDREW CUOMO, NEW YORK GOVERNOR: It's over when we have a vaccine. You want to use New York state as a laboratory, we are ready, willing, and able. WATT: But a vaccine could take anywhere from 8 to 18 months.

Meantime, to reopen at all, we need lots of testing and there's a potential impasse.

TRUMP: The governors are supposed to do testing. It's up to the governors.

CUOMO: We cannot do it without federal support.

WATT: We'll reopen a bit but this summer will still be different to all other summers.

BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: If we move too quickly, put 50,000 people in Yankee Stadium, and that's part of why you see a resurgence of the disease, that would be the worst of all worlds.

WATT: California now exploring disposable restaurant menus and servers wearing facemasks.

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: I do think we're going to have some social distancing that's going to be a critical part of our strategy as we go forward.

[04:05:00]

WATT: Starting soon, New Yorkers must carry a mask anywhere they go and wear it.

CUOMO: Any situation in public where you cannot maintain social distancing.

WATT: New Jersey now names and shames stay home scofflaws.

GURBIR GREWAL, NEW JERSEY ATTORNEY GENERAL: From loitering in public places to stupid things like holding front lawn Pink Floyd cover band coverage. What's encouraging is that there is more compliance now than at the beginning of the emergency.

WATT: Reopening will be rolling regional. New York and New Jersey might have passed the peak. Meanwhile, Massachusetts has climbed to the third highest case count in the country.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: We're probably going to be at the peak number of need for ventilators in about five to seven days and likely the peak number of deaths five to seven days after that.

WATT: The CDC now estimates nearly 10,000 health care workers have been infected with this virus and the food and retail union running this PSA says 30 members have been killed by COVID-19.

MARC PERRONE, UNITED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS INTERNATIONAL UNION: Do I think the place should receive hazard pay or appreciation pay or whatever pay you want to call it, the answer is, yes, I do, because they're taking more risk every single day.

WATT: They want grocery clerks designated as extended first responders. That's our new normal. Will be for a while.

WATT (on camera): California is projected to hit its peak need for beds and its peak death toll within the coming few days and preplanning is paying off. This entire hospital was set aside just for COVID patients. And as we approach the peak, there is still plenty of capacity.

Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

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CHURCH: Well, thousands of protesters gathered in Michigan's capitol on Wednesday arguing the governor's executive order to stay home through April 30th has gone too far. The operation gridlock protests lived up to its name with honking vehicles and flag waiving demonstrators jamming up traffic for miles. It was organized by the Michigan Conservative Coalition and Michigan Freedom Fund. The state has more than 28,000 cases of the coronavirus and the third highest number of deaths in the United States at more than 1,900. Governor Gretchen Whitmer says the protests put more lives at risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRETCHEN WHITMER, MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: I can give you one clear example of how that is. It was a car protest and they were backed up in front of a hospital. There was an ambulance that could not get into the bay for ten minutes. They absolutely impacted people's lives today and threatened people's lives and we'll never know the precise number of COVID-19 cases that come as a result of this gathering, but we know that there will be some.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Well, the American company Abbott Laboratory says it will release a new antibody test which could determine if a person has previously been infected with the virus and developed immunity. The U.S. President who supports this type of testing praised the move on Wednesday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's a great test. The company says these tests could be available to screen up to 20 million people in a matter of weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Well, despite Mr. Trump's approval, America's top expert on infectious diseases says there's a lot we don't know about how antibodies work. And as CNN's Sanjay Gupta explains, some of these tests could lead to false results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If you get an antibody test and it comes back positive but it's a false positive, you may be sort of given the impression you now have antibodies and that you are immune at least for a period of time.

We don't know that to be the case. It should be the case because other viruses have created that sort of immunity once you're been infected. But if you have a false positive, that would obviously be a false sense of security. So that's the antibody test, looking for antibodies in your blood.

The other test is looking for the virus itself. And the one thing about that we focus a lot on the numbers. You know whatever, I think it's 3.5 million roughly tests that have been performed now in the country. But I think the real question is for people who need to get the test, wherever they may live in the country, right now today can they say I need to get this test. Here's where I would go get it. Here's who would do it and here's how quickly I would get the results.

It doesn't matter how many tests you have unless everybody in the country can have some confidence, they can get that test right now, and the tests are not widespread enough. I'm not saying everybody in the country needs to get the test. To be clear, we're not going to test 325 million people. People should be able to have access to this test. They may be in certain hospitals right now but maybe not in the communities.

I'm still hearing from people that even now they're worried because they have some minor symptoms, whatever it might be, they don't quite know how to navigate the process of getting tested, some communities better than others. There're hotlines in various cities and things like that, but not everywhere. And that's a problem.

[04:10:00]

Because we start to get clusters of cases reemerge as were coming out of this curve, that can turn into exponential growth again and that would be a terrible outcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And you can hear more from Dr. Gupta when he joins Anderson Cooper for our next Global Town Hall, "Facts and Fears" about the coronavirus. That's Thursday at eight in the evening in New York, Friday at eight in the morning in Hong Kong.

Well, in the United Kingdom the curve is starting to flatten but the next few days and weeks will be difficult. Britain's top medical experts say social distancing is working, but the number of deaths will remain high for now and it doesn't look like the country is past the peak just yet. Nearly 13,000 people have died in the U.K. so far.

And CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins me now from London. Nick, the curve is flattening but the numbers are just shocking, aren't they? Talk to me about this extended lockdown that's going to take place.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, we've been hearing the same message nearly for about a week from the British government here. And in fairness to them, they are balancing the fact that the numbers they seem to be getting seem to suggest the peak has passed. Certainly here in sort of the epicenter in the U.K. of London the capital.

And on top of that too, they face the difficult task of persuading the British public in spite of economic forecast that suggest possibly as much as a third of the economy could disappear as a result of this lockdown. But the lockdown has to be extended for potentially three more weeks. That's what they face today. Key cabinet meetings and the likely announcement of that extension that everyone expects in the hours ahead this afternoon.

The broad issue is that the United Kingdom seems to have managed to get spare capacity now in the health service. That in fact despite these horrifying numbers of dead, 767 reported dead in the last 24 hours, and it begs belief, frankly, that this is a daily thing people are having to experience in the United Kingdom. But still, the hospitals which were always the concern might stretch beyond their capacity in the event of such high death tolls are in fact managing to cope.

And so difficulty, I think, for the U.K. is that they have a message of positive numbers to some degree. The need to continue extending the lockdown, but most importantly, Rosemary, no obvious exit strategy here. Now the chief medical officer you heard from there , in fact suggested that there may be in the week or plus ahead some sort of delineation of the exit strategy. And certainly the British opposition has demanded transparency. But so far, it's a junior health minister on Twitter suggesting that maybe we need to wait for a vaccine before we can stop social distancing in the U.K. and that's plus a year away.

And then also one of the epidemiologists who relied upon by the government to help them formulate their policy from Imperial College, Professor Neil Ferguson, has again reiterated that unless we see some sort of vaccine or treatment, the social distancing in place will be with us for the long term.

Now they don't make policy. Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, is supposed to make policy but he is still recuperating from coronavirus. And his deputies and cabinet ministers having to try and get together on the same page and formulate a response. Well, it's almost impossible, two different dynamics. How can you keep the country's economy more or less afloat without massive damage there? But also at the same not allowing another peak to occur in the population if you let people out too soon.

A complex task here, one under shot possibly by some good news that the numbers appear be improving. But still the daily toll here which may get worse in the days ahead as we hear the reporting from the holiday weekend clear, absolutely horrifying -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes, totally horrifying. Nick Paton Walsh bringing us the latest from the United Kingdom. Many thanks.

Well, for the first time there is a drop in the number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in France, but so far more than 17,000 people have died. Just staggering. The country is also recording that more than 600 sailors from a French aircraft carrier group have tested positive for the novel coronavirus. And CNN's Cyril Vanier joins us now live from Normandy, France to talk

about all of this. Cyril, those numbers, hopefully we do have Cyril to go to -- all right there. Cyril, those numbers, we talk about how horrifying they are. But hospitalizations have declined. Sadly, the death toll still staggering. What is the latest from across France?

CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary, I mean, I think you summarized it very well. The death toll is staggering, upwards of 17,000 deaths. France is one of the countries with the worst death tolls in the world. And the number of daily deaths in hospitals, daily deaths, has been pretty stable over the last week. That's upwards of 500.

[04:15:00]

That's a very high level and the government says, cautions that we have plateaued at an alarming high level of deaths.

However, there are signs of optimism. And that's if you look at the trends. For the first time yesterday there were fewer people in French hospitals than there had been in the previous day. And that suggests that France is going in the right direction. Certainly there is less pressure now on the French health system than there was even 48 hours ago. Fewer people overall in intensive care, as I said in hospitals if you factor in the number of people who have been discharged from the hospital. (INAUDIBLE)

CHURCH: All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Cyril Vanier joining us from Normandy, France. Clearly, some audio issues there but bringing us up to date on the situation across their country.

Let's take a short break here. Still to come, Germany could start to reopen as early as next week. More on the restrictions the Chancellor is easing after the break.

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[04:20:00]

CHURCH: Germany will start relaxing some restrictions set in place to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Chancellor Angela Merkel announced some small businesses will be allowed to reopen as early as next week if they follow specific hygiene plans. But the country is extending a ban on meetings of more than two people until the beginning of May.

And CNN's Frederick Pleitgen joins us now live from Berlin. Good to see you, Fred. So some restrictions will be relaxed, others remain in place. What more are you learning about the plan going forward and of course, the logic behind it?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the logic behind it is of course something that's key here to Angela Merkel and to the German government. It was interesting because it's really a very, very gradual response that we're seeing from the Germans, a very gradual easing. And you're absolutely right, those physical distancing measures that

have been in place here in Germany with no meetings of people of more than two people, that is going to remain in place. And there are not going to be any events here in this country with larger crowds until at least August 31st. So that's something where the country's actually gotten even stricter than it was before.

But then you're absolutely right. The Germans saying that small stores -- or small businesses are allowed to reopen that are not larger than 800 square meters. And the German government says that it highly recommends that people who go to those small stores wear surgical masks.

That it was quite interesting because last night politicians here were asking why don't you make it mandatory to have people wear masks in those places, and one of the big state governors here in Germany says because the German population so far has been so disciplined at the social distancing, at the physical distancing, they felt they did not need to make a law making it mandatory for people wearing masks in these places. They say they believe that the population is going to do the right thing. Also the German government kind of acknowledging that things are going quite well so far.

The big issue that they also had here was schools, Rosemary, and that's something, obviously, that around the world, people are asking when can kids go back to school? There it's not going to be before May 4th. But they do say people that who have children who are in final exams, those final exams can start on Monday and the preparations for that, of course, are ongoing already.

So you do have some easing. The Germans acknowledging that so far, the strategy that they have is working. But Angela Merkel also saying, look, this is still something that is very, very fragile and can certainly still go wrong at any point and therefore only a gradual easing taking place in this country -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Still though, Fred, Germany was a model for the rest of the world in so many ways, wasn't it? The way they did move so swiftly, so early doing tests in January to sort of make sure that those people who were infected were isolated.

PLEITGEN: Yes, and you're absolutely right. And that's something that was also acknowledged yesterday. Where the government during the press conference said that the fact that they moved so quickly to start isolating and to start testing, and also, quite frankly, the fact that they have a very good medical infrastructure that is really fine- tuned, even at a state and local level, that helped them isolate and identify cases very, very quickly and to move so fast to make sure that why Germany has identified a lot of cases. But the death toll still remains quite low. That's also due to the fact that people can get medical attention, that they moved very, very quickly

That's one thing where the Germans said, yes, that has worked well. But Angela Merkel then, of course, who is a physicist by training, she then said, look, right now in Germany they have a situation where one person -- in general, one person who has coronavirus usually infects one other person. That's sort of where they want to be right now. She said that if that moves to one person infecting 1.1 people, they could have a collapse of the German health care system, which is a very good one, in the not-too-distant future. So she says right now discipline is something that's very important and the gains that have been made so far are still very fragile -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: She's done the math. Frederick Pleitgen, many thanks to you bringing us the latest from Berlin. Appreciate it.

Well, the virus has now left more than 1,000 people dead in Louisiana according to Johns Hopkins University. The mayor of New Orleans has extended a stay at home order for another month. And as CNN's Ed Lavandera reports, air pollution in some parts of the state could have a significant role in the death toll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In March Diane and Edward Jasmine attended church services led by their son in Laplace, Louisiana. Pastor Antoine Jasmine noticed his parents looked ill that morning. A few days later the couple ended up in the hospital as doctors confirmed they were both infected with coronavirus.

ANTOINE JASMINE, PASTOR: This is the last time I saw them was standing here.

LAVANDERA: Last week Pastor Jasmine was recording a sermon when he got the dreaded message.

JASMINE: I was preaching and then I got the text -- your father just passed -- and I kept preaching.

LAVANDERA: Two hours later he got another message, his mother had also died.

[04:25:00]

JASMINE: If someone told me your parents are going to leave you, I would not have accepted it. It just was mind blowing. And still today it's still a shock.

LAVANDERA: The Jasmines lived their whole lives St. John the Baptist parish, which sits along the Mississippi River between New Orleans and Baton Rouge. It's home to a sprawling collection of chemical and industrial plants. The area has been at the center of battles over air pollution for decades. It's often called cancer alley.

This tiny parish with a population of about 45,000 people has the country's highest per capita coronavirus death rate according to a data analysis by "The New York Times." 569 coronavirus cases have been reported in St. John's and 47 people have died.

ROBERT TAYLOR JR., LEADER, CONCERNED CITIZENS OF ST. JOHN: We are dying at unprecedented numbers right here in St. John.

LAVANDERA: St. John Parish resident, Robert Taylor, leads a protest of environmental activists. They believe long-term exposure to the toxic air in their neighborhoods has made them even more vulnerable to dying from COVID-19.

TAYLOR: We are more than people. I it is terrible. What is it going to take for people to stand up to this?

LAVANDERA (on camera): When we see the list of the counties that have the highest death rates, all of a sudden you see St. John's at the top of this list. Is it pretty shocking for you?

TAYLOR: I was shocked. The correlation is right. We have a lot of people here who are ill. We are ill because we are under attack.

We must stand up for this.

GEORGE HANDY SR. CONCERNED CITIZENS OF ST. JOHN: If you breathe it in, these chemicals every single day, it automatically affects your immune system. COVID attacks mostly people with low immune systems. Those are the ones that die.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): some say residents in the parish were slow to take social distancing seriously to keep the virus from spreading. It's also a parish with high rates of underlying health issues. Tulane University epidemiologist, Susan Hassig says more research is needed. That there is no definitive link between the chemical exposure and the high death rate in St. John Parish.

DR. SUSAN HASSIG, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, TULANE UNIVERSITY: We don't know whether it's contributing 2 percent of the increased risk or 10 percent of the increased risk or maybe higher. We just don't have the information that we need at the present time to be able to make that kind of a statement.

LAVANDERA: Antoine Jasmine doesn't know how his parents' lifelong exposure to air pollution might have affected their battle with coronavirus, but the question will always linger.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Laplace, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Well, U.S. government stimulus payments are being sent out, but some unemployed Americans say waiting for the checks has become a life and death situation. That story in just a moment.

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