Return to Transcripts main page

Cuomo Prime Time

Governors Disagree with Trump's Rush to Re-open Economy; Outrage in Michigan Over Lockdown Order; Chris Cuomo On His Coronavirus Battle; Rescue Fund Runs Out Of Money; Marine Veteran Wins Battle With Coronavirus; Saluting Heroic First Responders And Health Care Workers. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 17, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes. I wish we had more time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

COOPER: But I appreciate you talking him. It's really --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

COOPER: Thank you. thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had to talk about him. Thank you.

COOPER: Yes. Take care. Our hearts go out to you and your family. Quick programming note.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

COOPER: Wynton is also going to join tomorrow night's special report about coronavirus on black and brown communities and a special broadcast tomorrow night. The color of COVID. Don Lemon, Van Jones is going to host the conversation. Message of hope from magic Johnson, America Ferrer, Charles Barkley, and many others. That's tomorrow night at 10 p.m. Eastern.

The news continues right now. I want to turn things over to Chris for Cuomo Prime Time. Chris, how are you doing?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Anderson, what a week in our collective history. It has been a privilege to watch you carrying the load. I wish you the best for the weekend. Get some rest and stay safe. We need you.

COOPER: All right, you too, Chris.

CUOMO: Have a good weekend, brother.

COOPER: You too.

CUOMO: I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to Prime Time.

Tonight, the president said he wants to heal the country one minute. The next minute he's calling for people to liberate their states. You tell me how that's an innocent request.

And the minute after that, he's cheering on protesters, many of whom are wearing and waving Trump stuff while defying social distancing guidelines.

And again, after saying he wants to heal us and not to fight, he lashes out at the governors who are following his own directives and saying they're doing the wrong thing. And we now know, remember this, the president is fully aware of the protests before reopening and he is fully aware the federal government isn't ready and the states aren't ready.

So, ask yourself, why does he keep pushing to reopen soon when he knows it can't be done safely? My answer, because he's not a healer. He's not a helper. You've got to be honest with yourself about this. He is the person who pushes his own advantage. It's good to want to reopen. To hell with the fact of whether or not you can do it safely.

That's the situation he's pushing, but that's OK. We know on whom we can count. One another. Together as ever. We get together, we can get this done. So, let's get after it.

I'm not going to pretending that things are open questions when they're not. You know why the president is pushing protests and saying to liberate states right after he said he wants to heal, because he doesn't want to heal.

He wants to sell the message that he wants to reopen because he thinks that sounds good to the base. Good, that's good. He wants to get us open. So, this isn't his problem. He's not why we're suffering. And it's not true and it's not fair.

Minnesota, Michigan, Virginia. They have all been following the national guidelines to keep Americans safe. National, means they come from the president. And guess what, good for the president. Good for the guidelines, they're flattening the curve.

Yet the president, again the man behind the guidelines, is now amplifying the prize of protesters out in tight groups without masks, you know, flouting the social distancing, saying it's a hoax, using the word hoax, saying coronavirus is just like the cold. Complete B.S.

And the president is using insurrection language, telling these protesters, liberate your state. Does not sound like healing? Again, this is who he is. This is what Trump is about. You do not need to ask the question. You know the answer.

CNN's Kaitlin Collins has the latest on what's been coming out of the White House.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: After telling states yesterday to call the shots on when to reopen, President Trump is now openly encouraging conservative protests in three blue states with stay-at-home orders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think some things are too tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Earlier today he tweeted "liberate Minnesota, liberate Michigan, liberate Virginia, it is under siege." After governors in those states voiced concerns, he was inciting further protests, Trump defended his all caps message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think we do have sobering guidance, but I think some things are too tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: But the president is only encouraging protests in states led by Democrats. All three he mentioned are considered battlegrounds for the presidential election and he made no mention of Ohio where there were also protests, but the state is led by a Republican.

Those protests are also defying his own federal guidelines, which urges Americans to avoid gathering in groups larger than 10. Asked if he's concerned about protesters possibly spreading the coronavirus, Trump said he wasn't.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:05:02]

TRUMP: These are people expressing their views. I see where they are. I see the way they're working. They seem to be very responsible people to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Trump began the week by incorrectly claiming that he had total authority as president, but he ended it by passing the responsibility for conducting nationwide testing to governors. Advisers inside and outside the White House say it's a clear tactic to protect himself from any political fallout that comes with reopening the nation.

CUOMO: Let's bring in Kaitlan. Kaitlan, thank you very much for reporting, especially at the late hour. What are you hearing from those in and around the White House about what the play is here for the president?

COLLINS: Well, we heard some advisers say this is obviously a way for the president to try to shield himself if there is fallout from reopening these states, as we've seen him continue to push to do. But also, one concern we heard from some officials is of course they

don't think the president can actually mandate these states to open, even though he said there's some he believes could start doing that today.

But Chris, we're really not seeing that. You didn't see any Republican governors even in these states start to completely relax their guidelines or really move forward in that way.

So one thing that we've been told that the president's advisers are watching is if he keeps pushing for these states, these blue states, these three that he named today to open but those governors stand their ground and do not loosen these guidelines right now because they don't believe it's the right thing today -- the right thing to do, they're worried about what that clash could look like between the president and these governors.

CUOMO: It's going to look just like this. We know exactly what the clash is going to look like. The question will be who will find some progress in this. Who will find a way to keep us safe? It's always been about testing, it's always been about planning, it still is, we just don't have the answers.

Kaitlin Collins, thank you so much for giving us insight and teeing up the questions. Have a great weekend.

All let's bring in journalist Carl Bernstein. Carl, my big brother, it's good to see you as always. It's been a while.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.

CUOMO: Let's talk about your understanding of the president's awareness, OK? The direct question is, is the president aware that testing is everything when it comes to reopening, and that the states can't handle it and the feds can't make it happen? Is he aware?

BERNSTEIN: He is aware and I was told on April the 6th that he knew that we were not up to testing and that reopening, he wanted to reopen on May 1st. He had a group of people under Jared Kushner, his son-in- law, who were trying to work on the problem of how to get open and Kushner and those around him advised the president that testing had to be in place to do this responsibly.

In fact, here's a quote from someone who's an aide to the president from April second. "If we can get the right testing, it's conceivable we can open May 1st. That we can begin the process." If we can get the right testing, Mr. President. That is what he was told. That is what he knew. And what he has done since is reckless and irresponsible and negligent.

CUOMO: So reckless, the legal definition is that you perceive a risk and then do that risky thing anyway. And it seems to me the exact definition of the president saying to protesters in states that are following his guidelines, by the way, they are federal directives. Yes, you should be angry. You should liberate your states. What's the play for him in that? BERNSTEIN: Well, the play for that is to his base as well as to cover

up his own malfeasance and misfeasance throughout this terrible episode in our history from January to March while he fiddled and Rome literally burned.

But let's look at what he did and said today. The President of the United States at the moment of this nation's utmost vulnerability since World War II preached and incited to the people of this country insurrection. It's madness and a degree of recklessness that's really inconceivable.

And one of the things you're seeing from the governors, particularly they're led by Larry Hogan, a Republican of Maryland. Your brother, governor of New York, a Democrat. But they are almost united to the person in knowing how reckless this president has been through this ordeal and now we find ourselves in a situation where like looking at nurses in garbage bags in our operating theaters, in our hospitals, in our ICU units, we don't have the most basic testing apparatus that Singapore, that South Korea was able to save its citizens because it proceeded methodically.

And we have a president who says I'm not a supply clerk. Can you imagine FDR in World War II saying I'm not a supply clerk? There's something obscene about this.

[22:10:02]

CUOMO: Well, listen, all we know are the facts, OK? They have supply issues.

(CROSSTALK)

BERNSTEIN: They are (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: They can't get the swabs. They can't get the reagent. They put out this list of labs before, private labs. What good is that? Those are the labs that put out machines that can process tests.

Yes, OK, where? Who's going to do the processing? Who's going to do the contact tracing? What are you going to use in the test packets to process? They know all the issues. I know for a fact, and you can imagine how, that the governors have been going to the federal government and saying this is what we need.

BERNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: Republican and Democrat. And they're being turned away.

BERNSTEIN: That's right.

CUOMO: So, then you get into the fight with the governors, OK? We have the tweet. I think it's the president punching my brother in the nose. Can we put up the tweet and we'll read it for context.

So put the tweet up. "Governor Cuomo should spend more time doing and less time complaining." For you who watched me the other night this was exactly the

hypothetical I put up to my brother about what the president would say. Not tooting my own horn, but I guessed right.

"Get out there and get the job done. Stop talking. We built you thousands of hospital beds that you didn't need or use, gave large numbers of ventilators that you should have had and help you with testing that you should be doing. We have given New York far more money, help and equipment than any other state by far. And these great men and women who did the job and you never say thanks. Your numbers are not good. Less talk and more action."

Now, look, Carl and I could pick this apart and prove to you that whether it's my brother or not, literally everything in there is inaccurate, it's not the point. He's doing it to my brother and others.

And the play is pretty clear, Carl, and I think my brother and the governors lose, because it's I want to reopen. I'm Trump. I want to reopen. I believe in America being open. These guys wanting to keep it closed. I think they're in a tough spot, the governors.

BERNSTEIN: Well, the people who are losing are the ones who are losing their lives, and that's what we've got to keep in mind. And that is the price of some of this president's negligence and recklessness. He had the Defense Production Act that he could have used early on to make sure that we have swabs, to make sure that our nurses weren't wearing garbage bags.

CUOMO: Still could.

BERNSTEIN: He used none of these instruments. And in fact, he did not act on any of this until finally the scientists, Fauci, Birx, sat him down and said Mr. President, this is the end of March, if you don't act, we are going to lose hundreds of thousands of our people.

And finally, then, and his son and son-in-law had to convince him, according to people in the White House I've talked to them, that he had to stop being delusional and in denial. We have had a president from the beginning of this episode, this horror in our history who has been derelict and not being up to the job that we need.

And yesterday for a few minutes it appeared that he grasped what was going on. It really appeared perhaps we are going to move forward in a responsible way. And what do we get today? Insurrection. He wants to promote insurrection? Talk about the Second Amendment when our people are going through this horror and then talk to your brother, the governor, about numbers. Electoral numbers. Who the hell cares about electoral numbers at this moment. At least --

CUOMO: Trump.

BERNSTEIN: -- you shouldn't be talking about them.

CUOMO: Trump does.

BERNSTEIN: You shouldn't be talking about them.

CUOMO: And I hope people heard what you said tonight, and I hope they process it, Carl. And we'll put it out online for people. You have a situation right now where the president knows if he plays politics in a certain way, it may work to his advantage, hence the protests.

Pushing on governors like my brother and other ones, Republicans and Democrats. Party spares nobody from this president right now. But as Carl said, ultimately the measure of the moment is going to be who lives and who dies. And that's not about red or blue. That is about me, you and the people we love. That's what's going to matter most. How will the president do on that metric? That story remains to be told.

Carl Bernstein, thank you very much. Have a great weekend and stay safe.

BERNSTEIN: Be wise.

CUOMO: And look, I want Carl on because he's a legend and he can diagnose it for us, but let's be fair, the media is playing a role in this too. Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight.

They like Trump fighting with the governors. They like the fomenting. They like the provocation. We have to push these guys to find answers. We have to keep pushing the reality that people are dying.

Don't push protests. Help those people who are dying. Where's his answer on that? That's the media's job.

So, the vice president, he has a piece in this also. He says we have enough tests to start reopening the country. Prove it. Several state labs, again, Republican and Democrat, say no, we don't. Where's their help? They haven't offered it to us. Why can't he convince them? Democrats and Republicans.

[22:14:56]

Remember, testing is not a hypothetical. I and thousands of people just like me are proof of our dilemma. I'm going to tell you the latest turn in my case that should be good news. It is for me. But it's not good news for you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. We've had a change in the state of play. President Trump has decided forget this healing talk. It's not me. It's better to play the heel. And now he's once again on attack. His target this time, the governors. Why?

Because the governors are the ones pushing back on the absurd notion that we're ready to reopen. His target today in particular was another Cuomo, and the governor of New York fired back. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): First of all, if he's sitting home watching TV, maybe he should get up and go to work, right? I don't know, what am I supposed to do, send a bouquet of flowers? I said thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

He said 11 times I don't want to get involved in testing, it's too complicated, it's too hard. I know it's too complicated and it's too hard. That's why we need you to help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:19:58]

CUOMO: Let's bring in Sanjay Gupta. Let me provide prophylaxis for you from a political discussion, you're better than that. Let's agree I don't want to see my brother in this kind of situation. It's not helpful to the state of New York, although I do believe he's got to fight the good fight because otherwise he and the other governors are going to get steamrolled by this president.

I don't want to see the president in this situation because he should be finding solutions. I don't want to see the media fomenting this fight, fight, fight instead of pushing for solutions to what we all now recognize is the must before we can reopen.

Testing, Sanjay. What is the reality from your reporting and understanding of where we are in terms of the ability to open up anything in any region in any real way and monitor people in real- time, test, treat?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Chris, first, you know, I've got to say that it does get frustrating sometimes as a reporter because you do see some of the solutions. You see the problems sort of identify themselves.

You see solutions sort of appear and we can talk about them, but it gets a little frustrating sometimes when they're not getting executed because, you know, as you and I have pointed out, I mean, there's really -- there's lives on the line here.

You know, people are getting sick and we're going to talk about you in a second here. I want to hear how you're doing.

But here's what I think is important for people to realize with testing because I think we use it as a term just testing, one sort of big term.

And in fact, it's many little things. As I think your brother was alluding to, the idea that someone wants to get a test, needs to get a test and then can get a test and get a result.

All the steps in between are really important. But I think maybe this will, sort of elucidate what's going on here. I think capacity for testing has improved. That means public labs, commercial labs, university labs, all these things have improved. They can analyze the samples once the samples come in in an

appropriate way. But to get the sample, to have enough swabs to have the medium in which the swab needs to be maintained and stored and transported, to have the reagents that pull the virus if there is any virus off the swab. All of that are certain products that are part of the supply chain.

And the issue that I'm sure you've heard, Chris, many people have heard is we don't have enough of some of those supplies. So, you can have everything exempt the swab or the medium to transport the swab or the reagent to pull the virus off the swab.

If you don't have any one of those things the testing doesn't work. And so, a to b falls apart. This is the gap that I think Dr. Fauci was talking about today. The problem is in order to get that supply chain working, that's what I'm hearing when I talk to my colleagues at the public health level in these various states.

We actually have the capacity, they say. We've identified who needs to be tested. The problem is we don't have x, we don't know how to get x because x -- everybody on the planet wants x and right now the federal government has to negotiate to get x from China or some other country.

So that's the sort of balance I think between the federal sort of issue and the state issue. And it's an ongoing one and a bit frustrating because this is a problem that clearly needs to be solved, Chris.

But I do want --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Everybody is missing something. Everybody is missing something at every level when you talk to them. And the frustration is -- and again, it's not to play politics, OK. And you know, that's a little bit of a deceptive phrase. People say they don't want to play politics. Guess what, it is politics.

I'm saying we don't have to play got you politics. Even some of these young lions like Dan Crenshaw, who I think is going to be a leader in this country for a long time to come, Republican, you know, served bravely as a special operator. He's spending so much time, I want him to come on the show, defending the president making bad moves early on.

Let's not waste our time with that. Dan Crenshaw wouldn't have said the things this president said early on and he knows it. He'll defend it but he won't say he would have said it.

And now instead of fighting, to have them throw everything at this the way they did at the wall, they found money all over the place. They found pockets everywhere. They found authority everywhere to get it done. Why isn't he having these great American companies make the swabs, make the reagent?

Everybody says that it's not chemically complicated, but it's just about supply chain. Why not throw everything at it, Sanjay, that's my frustration.

GUPTA: Yes. This is one thing that we're all in together and that's not just a euphemism. I mean, we really all need the same thing here because ultimately in order to get the country up and running, which I think everybody wants, it's really all about testing. And it was about testing, it is now and it will continue to be. and it's a solvable problem.

This is a fixable problem. This isn't something that, you know, we have to look at and say it is complicated, but it's fixable. And I think the solutions have --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But you have to fix it first.

GUPTA: -- been really identified here. You've got to fix it first, absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

[22:24:55]

CUOMO: If they don't fix it first you can't reopen things because you can't do it backwards.

I'm proved positive of why you need to get testing straight. So, here's my situation. To be fair, Sanjay knows it.

GUPTA: Yes.

CUOMO: Again, I call him all the time all day long, he is an angel this guy. He's so busy and yet he always makes himself available.

So, by CDC guidelines, OK, this should have been a big headline. I should have promoted on Instagram. I have 72 hours of fever free by CDC guidelines. I have no more respiratory symptoms.

GUPTA: All right.

CUOMO: By CDC guidelines. I am over seven days from the beginning of my symptoms. I'm like 15, 18 days from the beginning of my symptoms. But I am not well.

So, by CDC guidelines if I were to hang out for another week, I could go back to work. You do not want me standing next to you, sweating on you and coughing on you right now. I can get tested. I'm a special person, I'm a big media person. I got my brother as the governor; I can get tested.

Most people in my situation, Sanjay, can't, and they're going to clear the seven days and they can go back to work and they may well be contagious.

GUPTA: This is confusing for people. We made a full screen, Chris, maybe we can put it up so people -- you just went through it but let's just let people at home look at these criteria that we talk about for people to actually not have to isolate even within their own home.

This is the point. So, Chris has been isolating within his home. Everyone should be staying at home, but on top of that Chris has been isolating within the home.

So, if you want to stop isolating in the home, maybe we don't have the list, but basically as you said, 72 hours without any -- there it is, 72 hours without using anything to reduce the fever. Improvement, and I would say near absence of respiratory symptoms, which you have done, you've improved a lot on that.

And then this is for people who can get the testing, two negative tests in a row at least 24 hours apart. If you can't get the testing, then you basically have to have been at least seven days since the beginning of your symptoms.

CUOMO: Right.

GUPTA: Chris, you meet criteria. But the thing that struck me today about the conversation that we had, and I think again, very instructive for people at home, they may say, hey, look, I'm that guy. I meet these criteria but I still feel cruddy. Not necessarily respiratory symptoms, I just don't feel myself.

I know you're doing -- I mean, you can do the exercise, you do more exercise now than I can do typically and yet you still don't quite feel yourself, is that right?

CUOMO: Well, so here's what's weird about me just in this context. There's a lot that's weird about me. But the respiratory usually goes last. People will be coughing. They'll be short of breath. For weeks after their fever has cleared, I'm reverse.

So why am I still in the basement? Because Christina is sick, she's upstairs. She's doing amazingly well by comparison. She -- women do better. Maybe it's her blood type, maybe it's her immune system, maybe it's just the fact that she's tough and she's a mom and I'm soft. But she is doing better. She already feels better today than she did yesterday. Amazing. Thanks to God for that. And the kids are still at least asymptomatic. You know, nobody is sick.

I'm still down here because I am at my normal body temperature. I run about 97.6. I am high 98s, even tickle into the low 99s but on average I wind up below that so for the CDC I'm fine. But I'm not.

So now they introduced a new thing to me, Sanjay, which I want to talk people through. The reason I said the other day I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that this virus has been around here since before February, before January, maybe last fall.

I know -- I'm not going to not say it because some media got you machine comes after me, OK? It's not baseless. I have dozens and dozens of anecdotal evidences from people who say they think they had this. Sanjay hears it all the time too. So does Fauci. So do the people on the task force. So, does everybody at every state level. They haven't been able to test. And we're never really going to know until we start doing the

antibodies. And all these people are going to wind up having antibodies, you'll see, for this and they won't know why and that will be a beautiful thing.

And they'll start having new theories about how a higher percentage than we thought before has been exposed to this virus and it will change curves and it will change expectations. But I'm telling you, we don't know where we are with this virus. And if we can't test people, we're going to make mistakes. And I'm a perfect example of it.

I could go back to work. I'm not going to do it, Sanjay, because I know that there's something funky about this temperature not being right. And the new thing is its recovery, Sanjay. Let's just give one -- it's worth the time. One beat on this.

So, I'm OK, but because of how strong the virus was and how beat up I am by the virus, I may now have symptoms and diminished capacity and even flash fever for weeks. Explain that to people how the recovery phase can kind of mimic the sick phase.

GUPTA: It is very interesting, Chris. You know, they even looked at some of the early data out of China, and I say this not to alarm you.

[22:30:02]

Yu know, I'm very hopeful and optimistic that you are going to have a complete recovery, but there had been people who in this early studies out of China, even a few months afterwards, after they've recovered, they were in the recovered category, if you look at them in papers, documented as recovered, and yet they were still having diminished lung function even a few months, two to three months afterward.

Sometimes up to 20 to 30 percent decreased lung function. We don't know. You know, we're still learning a lot about this virus. Why would that be? Is it some sort of persistent inflammation? You know, these are people who had cleared the virus out of their body, they had negative tests, so what was going on there? We're still learning about that.

But Chris, to your point earlier, there was a study that just came out, looked at in California, northern California, they looked at a particular community where the confirmed cases were 1,000 people. But as part of the study, they started to try and do surveillance using antibody testing to try to figure out how many people had likely been exposed to this up until April 1st. I don't know if you want to take a guess, Chris, but I'll just tell you, they guessed it was up to 80,000 people.

So 1,000 confirmed, but when they go look at the antibody tests and they speculate now that 80,000 people were likely exposed to this virus. Just like you said, I don't know if it was as far back as October, you know, because we just don't -- you know, if you would have had cases in this country that far back, you probably would have had corresponding hospitalizations, corresponding deaths. Nevertheless, it's been here for a while and there's probably been a lot of people who have been exposed. 80 times, Chris in that one community. We're going to have to see what that means for the rest of the country.

CUOMO: Right. People can look it up. The New England journal of medicine tested these bunch of pregnant women and they had a much higher hit rate than they expected. And it allowed them to start extrapolating that you may have three in 10 of people in the population that have been exposed. How did they get exposed? Yes, you probably would have had corresponding hospitalization rates and maybe even worse if you were looking for it. And if people were getting that sick that they had to go to the hospital. There are a lot of ifs.

And again, I know, I'm not saying it is a fact. The media got-you machine can come after me, I don't care, because we have to be open to learning things about this virus and its exposure and its environment in this country that we don't yet know, because we've been wrong every step of the way. Dr. Sanjay --

GUPTA: Because we didn't test enough.

CUOMO: That's right. And we're not testing enough now and we're not prepared to test. And that will never change until testing changes. We'll never be where we need to be. We have to get better. Cure, vaccine, yes, yes, you'll always have to test. All right. Let's take a break. This country doesn't reopen without testing, period. But while we wait, the small business rescue fund just ran dry. Why? Let's talk to an expert about how that happened and what needs to happen next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:35:00]

CUOMO: Small business is the real engine of our economy. No more money for the small businesses fighting to keep the doors open. The president knows this and says that's a win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Nobody knew it was going to be this successful. Don't forget, when you say the money is gone, it's been a tremendous success as a program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. So it's not that it's dried up, it's been given out and that means a lot of businesses should be better off. Let's bring in Obama -- former Obama economic advisor, Austan Goolsbee. Professor, is it a good thing that the money has all been dispensed or is there another reckoning?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST: You know, this is emergency rescue money, so that they blew through all the money in a week is a sign that there are a lot of people that were in desperate need of rescue. I think the deeper problem -- so, I'm all for getting the money out the door. I think there -- everyone knows, if you know anybody in small business, you've heard the stories that there were many, many problems with getting this money out the door to the people who need it.

And so, they set it up to be first come, first serve. They steered the money through the banks, and the banks apparently just chose the customers that they already liked the best who already had lines of credit and arguably needed it the least and that's who they gave all the money to. So if you look out your door, you were thinking in your mind $350 billion the federal government was going to give in forgivable loans to save people's jobs and to save small business.

If you had in your minding that was going to be your local restaurant or the beauty salon or the dry cleaner, it's really I think virtually none of those. I mean, it's much more going to the big companies that already had access to credit before this started.

CUOMO: So where do we get -- so this is about more money then. So, just to keep it light and tight, is the answer that Congress has to come back and give more and do we also have to think about how it's distributed, not through the banks?

GOOLSBEE: Yes to both of those, though the thing is I think there's a serious question, should Congress -- the Republicans seem to be saying let's just take the same system we have and let's add more money to it. But I kind of think given what just happened in the last week, we might want to rethink whether you just want to pile more money into that same system.

CUOMO: It's so interesting after 2008, we're once again letting the big banks decide how the money works. It's just amazing. But it seems to me like I don't know that there's another way. I don't know that the little guy can get ahead, I really don't, because you know, that's always Trump's clarion call, I'm for the little guy. And yet here we are once again. Austan Goolsbee, thank you for helping us make sense of it. Always love relying on you. Have a good weekend.

GOOLSBEE: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Another neglected part of this story, OK, and you'll start hearing more about it. Tomorrow there's an amazing special called the color of covid with Van Jones, who I have coming up later in the show and of course, D. Lemon about how minority communities are getting crushed and they'll going to get hit worse if we reopen the wrong way.

[22:40:11]

You know who else is getting crushed? Military. I want you to meet a veteran who fought like hell to win his battle with coronavirus. I want you to join me in saluting a retired marine and now a coronavirus vet, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Veterans, we always say we care about them so much, we support the troops, right? But we always fall short. You ever think about that? It's happening again right now. Guess how many of our veterans are over 55. Half. Half. You know how many that is? 13 million. A lot of them are in densely packed homes, very vulnerable, underlying conditions, don't have what they need, don't have the PPE in place, but there are good story as well and we've got to celebrate them.

[22:45:08]

David Williams, veteran. He's got pre-existing conditions. He's not 55, he's 54, he's not (INAUDIBLE), so he's not in that population I just told you about. But he was vulnerable, started feeling symptoms a month ago, chills, aches. He ended up spending eight days on a ventilator, but our warriors are tough, 17 days, released from the hospital. Cheers from the medical staff, cheers from family, and let's be honest, cheers from us as well. This courageous American joins us now. David Williams, thank you for your service and thank god you survived.

DAVID WILLIAMS, USMC VETERAN RECOVERING FROM CORONAVIRUS: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: How are you feeling, brother?

WILLIAMS: I'm blessed to be here. Recovery is a little rough. I thought I was going to be able to jump right into it, but it's going to be a pretty long process.

CUOMO: You learned that and so have I just today. Guys like us thought once it's over, it's like anything else, bounce back up, maybe one day you're a little sideways, then you get back to normal life. Not with covid. What are they telling you that the recovery looks like?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's kind of like hit and miss. For me, it's more or less getting my lung back in a working condition, because when I went on the ventilator, I had a lot of my lungs were taken over and so it's going to be a process to be able to get that -- to get my lung capacity back. Not only that, I lost a lot of muscle mass being out for eight days, and so I had to use a walker here currently at home. Also my wife is a nurse and my two -- and my kids, they're also like in the medical field as well, so they're my therapists here at home recovering. Physical therapy can't come to our house for home health.

CUOMO: Do you have a spirometer, the thing that you blow into and try to make the plunger go up, you suck in to show how much lung capacity you have?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes, that's my new toy.

CUOMO: If you don't, I'll send you mine. But if you have that, that's cool. That's all you're going to need. Let me ask you something, Dave. Now, you had -- you were up against the worst of it. You know, I'm one of the lucky ones. Were you worried when you were on that ventilator that you might not get off? I'm sure that you heard stories about how people when they get on that ventilator it gets a little dicey. Were you aware of that or did you think that I'll get off, I'll get off?

WILLIAMS: I just vaguely remember right before I went onto the ventilator. You know, the doctors telling me the ins and outs about being on a ventilator. And you know, he told me there might be a chance and might not be. And so all I could do is, you know, put it in the good lord's hands. But our V.A. respiratory therapist group and a lot of the nurses and stuff, they did an extremely good job because they did say that I had a very low chance of survival on this, but they put all of their years of experience together and were able to pick the right time for me to come off. If they would have did it too early or too late, you never know what might have happened.

CUOMO: And I know part of what matters to you is for people to create awareness that there are a lot of veterans out there that are vulnerable, that need care and need help. A lot of them are in homes. You know, they're not in the situation that you are, thank god, where you're home and with your family. You want people to remember them, yes?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. Because, you know, like, you can go to battle, go to war, you know, and you're dug in and you're fighting in the fight and able to come home from that. And then you get here and, you know, you've got a little virus bug that takes you out and so, yes, it's kind of -- it's kind of a little difficult to understand that you can be able to taken out just by anything but you fight for your country and now you've got home and you got to fight for your life.

CUOMO: Let me tell you, you sound good, David. You sound a little bit tight, you know, in the lungs and you're getting your breath back. I don't want to overtax you here.

[22:50:00]

But you are one hell of a warrior. To get off the ventilator, that's a fight. And especially you know the stakes. But obviously you serve the country, you have been through worst and you've been through this. And I just want people to recognize your success. Thank you for your service. Bless your wife, bless your kids. Hopefully they don't go through it anymore or going it through, with you is more than enough. And if it's OK with you, I'd love to stay in touch. And just make sure that the recovery is coming along.

WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And you know, I will throw some prayer out for you and your family. Have a speedy recovery and I know how you feel. This is not an easy trip. Especially when it comes into a lot of guessing game. How they're going to be able to, you know, the hospital is going to be able to take care of you. And because there's so many different scenarios. Everybody has different symptoms. You know, everybody has other medical issues that could impact this virus.

But like I said, you know, the V.A. did a tremendous job. And you know, as far as here at home, my wife is my nurse already. And also she is also a victim, she also had to go into 14 days of --

CUOMO: Quarantine.

WILLIAMS: -- isolation here at the house. And so she couldn't come see me. Until the doctors and nurses contacted her to make sure they give her an update on what's going on with me.

CUOMO: That has got to be so hard for a wife and a nurse to not be able to be there by your side and do what she wants to do. It's so hard on the whole family, David. I don't have to tell you that. But I want other people to understand that. That the whole family goes through it. And you saw the worst of it and you came out the other side. And I had to tell you, I hope people appreciate it, because I sure had to -- I had a mild case by comparison. And it was all that I could handle.

So, god bless you. Just so people know, you know, David is taking oxygen right now, it's assistive, getting pure oxygen and they helps with the expansion of quality air in the lungs. And he'll wean himself off that in time. David, God bless, be well. I'd love to stay in touch. Thank your wife for what she's doing and I'll check on you soon.

WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you, brother. Be well. Imagine that, be on a ventilator and they say to you, hey, maybe you survive, maybe you don't. How many people are dealing with that around this country? And again, it brings us back to the central question, how can we risk it? We have to test. We got to be ready. And we got to remember and love the people who are saving us, let's do that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:55:00]

CUOMO: Hey, thank you. I'm just looking at all these messages to want to help David Williams. I'll ask if he needs things, I'll tell you, but if you want to help veterans. There are a lot of groups out there. I'll get some information. We will put it out on social media.

All right. Let's cheer the lifesavers, OK? Look at this. Loud and proud in NYC tonight. Good. Real people. Reminding that they know what's being done for them. We need our leaders to hear that racking all the way down in Washington. Take care that we do the right things. Do not stress them anymore. Take care to get testing in place. So we don't strain them anymore. That's how you show you care. All right. All the best for those on the front lines. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Let's take a break and then we'll get after with more Prime Time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)