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More testing Before U.S. Can Open; Shooting Rampage in Canada; Coronavirus Update from Around the World; Answers to your Coronavirus Questions. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 20, 2020 - 08:30   ET




We're finding in Massachusetts right now is that the contacts may be as few as six, but that's while we're in the middle of a shelter in place mode (ph) with social distancing. As we think about relaxing the number of contacts with the elderly (ph) increase. So, you know, 10 is a conservative estimate but I think it's a good place to start.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And in terms of a company, in terms of a business, if you bring this down to a small level, what should businesses do in terms of testing people who come in?

TSAI: I think we need to, you know, make sure that for individuals coming into businesses is that they have -- still practice the appropriate physical distancing measures, staying six feet apart, you know, making sure that of people that come into work are wearing masks or coming into the retail stores are wearing masks. And then they'll also make -- being able to screen people for symptoms by measuring their temperature.

And so it's a broad strategy that we have to employ. Social distancing has been an effective tool so far. It's been a blunt tool. But we need to take a little bit more surgical approach if we are to think about returning back to normal.

BERMAN: And I think one of the other things that people need to remember here is, if you test negative, if you don't have it today, that doesn't mean you never get tested in the future. So to what extent are you taking in retesting into account?

TSAI: OK, that's a really good point, John. And I think that's why we think our 100,000 tests per day estimate is actually on the more conservative side. And we realistically may need more. We want to give a number that is an anchoring plan (ph) for policymakers.

And as it's not just also testing those individuals, but as we return to doing operations back in our hospitals, many hospitals have delayed hundreds if not thousands of elective procedures. So we also need to screen those patients as we return back to receive normal care. So we have to include those screening tests as well.

BERMAN: So one of the things you have heard from the administration is, well, we're not going to test every American. Is that a strawman? I mean where is the line between testing everybody and testing the exact right amount? How do you find that sweet spot?

TSAI: Yes, and that's where I think the range of, you know, we need to be making sure that our test positive rate has fallen between the 3 percent to 12 percent range. It is -- is a counter example to the strawman of testing, you know, all -- over 300 million people. That's just not possible. So we need a realistic number that can actually move the discussion forward and really move the planning forward over these next critical days and weeks.

BERMAN: A lot more testing is needed if we want to open the way that I think most Americans want to. That is really the product of this research.

Dr. Tsai, thanks so much for being with us this morning. We really appreciate your time.

TSAI: Great pleasure to be here, John.

BERMAN: All right, one major European economy reopens today. That and more from our reporters around the globe, next.



BERMAN: Breaking overnight, police are investigating a shooting rampage that left 16 people dead in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia. This is the deadliest attack in that country's history.

CNN's Paula Newton live in Ottawa with all the breaking details.

This really is horrifying, Paula.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. And imagine what you just said, worst mass murder likely in Canadian history. The death toll, John, could still rise. That's what police were warning us about today.

This all started late Saturday evening. Multiple 911 calls. Police say a suspect, the suspected gunman, Gabriel Wortman, a local businessman, no really prior indication of any violence before. They entered a property. They say they found several deceased both inside and outside the property.

But, John, that wasn't all. There were fires burning on that property and then they continually got other calls, several miles apart these properties where there were other fires. The manhunt began.

People in that community, again a very rural, quiet community in Nova Scotia, they were told, lock down in your homes. They were already lockdown for coronavirus. They were told, if you've got a basement, get into it.

After several hours, quite a reign of terror in that community, police apparently a confrontation with the gunman, several miles away. He was shot by police. Police are now investigating that. But so much tragedy in its wake.

Just one personal story so far. It is Heidi Stevenson. She's a 23-year veteran, mother of two of the force. And we will continue in the hours to come to see those stories of personal tragedy.

It is really difficult for this country to grasp right now. Still in lockdown, wondering how do you mourn what is essentially a national tragedy.


BERMAN: Yes, a lockdown on top of lockdown.


And, Paula, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

All right, new this morning, some countries in Europe are starting to ease their stay-at-home restrictions, but in Latin America, some leaders are questioning whether coronavirus is really as dangerous as health experts say.

CNN has reporters around the world to bring us the latest developments.


FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Fred Pleitgen in Germany, where this country today is easing some of the coronavirus lockdown restrictions.

As of today, smaller shops can open but also car dealership, bike dealerships and actually some zoos as well. Germany says it was able to get control of coronavirus through extensive testing and also through massively increasing hospital ICU capacities as well. However, some of the restrictions do remain in place, like, for instance, social distancing, and there have even been some protests against those restrictions.


The deputy health secretary here leading this country's fight against this outbreak has told "The Wall Street Journal" that he's not convinced that this pandemic is any more lethal than an ordinary influenza outbreak. He said in part, quote, I don't know yet. The WHO says it could be ten times that of influenza, but I think that we need to see more evidence.

While he's right that it is too early to say what the ultimate death rate from this pandemic will be, there are a lot of epidemiologist who would say that this particular pandemic is more lethal than an ordinary influenza outbreak.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in Spain, where the stay-at-home order is likely to remain in place until at least May 9th.


So this country can use all the good news that it can get.

And there is some. Beginning next week, children will be allowed out of their homes with some limited restrictions and health care workers brought a taxi driver to tears at a hospital in Madrid. The driver had been bringing patients to the hospital for free, so staff there called him in for an unusual pickup, a card, an envelope full of cash, and a round of applause just to say thanks.


Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro joined a group of protesters in Brazilia (ph) on Sunday to demand an end to quarantine measures meant to slow the spread of Covid-19. He didn't wear a mask and, in fact, coughed several times while addressing the crowd of a couple hundred.

Some of the protesters were also urging military intervention to close down both congress and the supreme court, which have supported social isolation measures. Bolsonaro called his supporters patriots, and said that their freedom, their liberty must be guaranteed.

Now, Bolsonaro has clashed repeatedly with governors as they closed schools and all but essential businesses, insisting that the economic fallout from those measures could cause more damage than the virus itself.


BERMAN: Lives on the line this morning.

There are so many developments on this pandemic each hour. Here's what to watch today.


ON SCREEN TEXT: Soon, New York Gov. Cuomo briefing.

2:00 p.m. E.T., Ohio Gov. DeWine briefing.

5:00 E.T., White House task force briefing.


BERMAN: All right, there's so many questions about coronavirus and safety. What is safe to do and not to do? Dr. Sanjay Gupta answers some of those questions, next.


CAMEROTA: We still have so many questions about how to avoid catching coronavirus. Do you need to clean your mask every time you come into the house? How about your shoes? How about those delivery bags and boxes? What about your clothes? Don't answer any of that, John. I have an expert here to answer that. And that is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, back with us for more.

Sanjay, I know --


CAMEROTA: Listen, I understand we have to wash our hands all the time, every time we come in. That part I've got.

The rest of it, it's really hard to know what's overkill or what's just being cautious and smart. So let's just start with the clothes, OK? Every time I come in from work or I come in from a walk, a socially distant walk outside, do I need to wash my clothes?

GUPTA: I don't think you need to. I mean it's an abundance of caution, as they say, and we're certainly learning as we go along. But the virus can stay on certain surfaces for a period of time. It can stay on, you know, stainless steel, flat plastic, things like that for up to a few days, which is why you have to constantly wash those surfaces.

Clothes are probably more like cardboard, it's more absorbent, so the virus is unlikely to stay and last that long. They say it can stay up to 24 hours but probably not be that significant.

It's interesting, if you look at like how viruses move through air, they kind of want to move around objects. They don't want to necessarily land on objects. So if you're moving as a human body through the air, the virus is unlikely to sort of stick to you that way. You can breathe it in if you go through, you know, if you -- somebody just sneezed around you, but unlikely to stick to your clothes. So wash them, but you don't necessarily have to wash them every single time.

BERMAN: You know, we know that Sanjay is the smart one here because his head is literally twice the size of ours. So he must have the answers inside that enormous cranium.

GUPTA: Oh, I do.

BERMAN: Sanjay, I want to ask about mail and package because I've been wiping down every box that's been showing up at the house with, you know -- is that necessary? Do you need to wipe down the packages that come in?

GUPTA: I think that the biggest thing is still remembering to just wash your hands, which sounds like an obvious thing. But, you know, people know this, I think, by now but you're not contracting the virus by touching the package. You're -- what happens is you could touch the package or touch a contaminated surface and then touch your face. So after you touch a surface, just making sure to wash your hands.

Now, yes, we do wipe down some packages that we think, you know, are higher risk or, you know, you just want to make sure that they're clean. So we'll a lot of times unwrap packages on our front porch, then bring them inside, subsequently take those packages down to be disposed of.

So, yes, again, this is all a little bit of an abundance of caution. I think it's very unlikely you're going to contract the virus that way. It's a respiratory virus. Typically you're breathing in respiratory droplets or touching an obviously contaminated surface. But this is -- you know, this is what we're doing for now in terms of trying to be as safe as possible.

CAMEROTA: OK, shoes, are you leaving your shoes outside?

GUPTA: I do leave my shoes outside. Now, we have been a no shoe household really for a long time, long before the coronavirus thing. But I think there's -- and I also go to the hospital. And, you know, there's certain places in the hospital which are more likely to be contaminated when we go through certain places in the hospital. Now, we always put booties over our shoes, take those booties off after we walk through that particularly concerning part of the hospital. So I have other reasons to do it as well.

But I think as a general rule, it is possible, unlikely but possible, you could track some pathogens into the house. If you have young children who are spending a lot of time close to the ground, that might be a larger concern. But, for us, it's just be easy just to be a shoeless household.

BERMAN: So what if you have a sick person at home, someone with Covid- 19, and you are a caregiver, what are your responsibilities then?


Can you go outside? Can you go to the drugstore or the grocery store or should you be quarantined also?

GUPTA: No, I think -- I think the person who is a caregiver or family member, they can go outside. This is -- this is, you know, like Chris Cuomo and Brooke Baldwin, you know, who both had, along with many others, who have been living at home, isolating themselves as best as they can at home while the whole family is quarantined.

Now, I mean quarantined stay-at-home, you know, people should be doing that regardless, but somebody who is otherwise healthy, who has not tested positive can go out, probably should go out instead of the -- obviously the person who is sick, and get the groceries, go to the pharmacy and things like that. So you can do that.

You have to monitor yourself if you've had contact with someone who has had known coronavirus. You may be wanting to regularly monitor yourself, taking your temperature, making sure you're really -- really diligent about whether or not you're developing any symptoms. CAMEROTA: And what about for somebody who has tested positive but

doesn't have the worst case? Can they go out for a walk alone with a mask on if they're feeling okay or, no, must they stay inside for two weeks?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a -- it's a good question. In some ways you're describing the way that everybody should act, right, because we all have to behave like we have the virus. If you're obviously symptomatic, you should stay home.

But, Alisyn, I think you're right, I mean if somebody who doesn't have any symptoms has tested positive, they could wear a mask, keep social distance, wear a mask to protect others from you.

One would argue that maybe they should just stay at home regardless because they have known infection, but all of us, really, you know, we have to behave like we have the infection.

I go outside. I keep my distance from people. I'll go for a run outside. If I know that I have to be in a place where there's a lot of other people, I wear a mask.

BERMAN: Will you ever wear a mask running? I mean what are the risks of running past someone. I run past a lot of people, Sanjay, because I'm so freaking fast. No, I'm kidding.

GUPTA: That's what I've heard.

BERMAN: But often people are running in different directions or slow walkers pass me when I'm running. Do I have to be concerned about picking it up from them?

GUPTA: I'm not, you know, and this is something, you know, I had this long conversation with Dr. Fauci about this the other day as well. And, you know, some of this is where the objective and the subjective aspects of this story collide.

He told me he goes for a run, comes back from work, goes for a run with his wife around the neighborhood, does not wear a mask. He does see people. People are often asking him questions about things, as you might imagine. But that's sort of how he's approached it.

It's unlikely -- I think this idea that there is a -- a cloud of viral particles that are out there and you're going to run through it and collect it is just unlikely, John.

CAMEROTA: Out of an abundance of caution, I am continuing not to run. You're welcome, everyone.

GUPTA: We appreciate that.

CAMEROTA: OK. Good. Finally, I get some credit for this.

Thank you very much, Sanjay.

GUPTA: You got it. BERMAN: So it's time now for "The Good Stuff."

Chef Jose Andres is once again coming to the rescue. The chef and his non-profit, World Central Kitchen, have served nearly 2 million free meals in more than 100 U.S. cities.

Anderson Cooper spoke to the chef on "60 Minutes" last night about using the kitchens' of shuttered restaurants to feed front line workers and families in need.


ANDERSON COOPER, "60 MINUTES": You know how many people you feed here every day?

JOSE ANDRES, FOUNDER, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: Out of this one, around 2,000.

COOPER: Two thousand people?

ANDRES: Yes, but the number is going to keep increasing. The good thing for us, Anderson, is that if all of a sudden we need to go up to 10,000 or 20,000 people, we are ready. Part of emergencies is to adapt and to adapt by the day. When you talk about food and water, people don't want a solution one week from now, one month from now. The solution have to be now. The urgency of now is yesterday.


BERMAN: World Central Kitchen is partnering with 400 restaurants, paying them to keep people employed and feed Americans. Andres is calling on the U.S. government to create a new agency to respond to future hunger emergencies.

CAMEROTA: John, as you and I well know, music can bring the world together and it can be healing. So Global Citizen, which was this big production, says it raised more than $127 million in commitments to support health care workers in their fight against coronavirus with its One World Together at Home special this past weekend.

This was a star-studded show. It aired on all of the broadcast networks. It was hosted by the late night comics you see there, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon and Stephen Colbert, and celebrities and musicians took part, including Paul McCartney and The Rolling Stones. They were all performing from their homes. The big finale featured Lady Gaga, who helped put this whole special together.


She was singing with John Legend, Andrea Bocelli and Celine Dion.


CAMEROTA: I have goosebumps, John. It's so beautiful.

BERMAN: The Rolling Stones. I like The Rolling -- I would have ended with The Stones, man. How can you follow Mick?

CAMEROTA: I know, from home, just his own personal concert to you.

BERMAN: All right, I have goosebumps every day doing the show with you. So it's not unusual for me to get goosebumps at the end of the show.

CAMEROTA: That's the studio, it's just cold, but, OK.

BERMAN: All right, CNN's coronavirus coverage continues right after this quick break.