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Dr. Leila Hojat Discusses Study Showing Hydroxychloroquine Does Not Work For COVID-19; Mayor Carolyn Goodman (I), Las Vegas, Discusses Statewide Lockdown, Calling It Total Insanity & Pushing For Reopening Casinos. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 22, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00]

DR. LEILA HOJAT, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: And you mentioned the guideline that had just come out from the NIH of not using that in combination with the Azithromycin. I think the study made a piece of that a little bit. But I do want to clarify that the recommendations where that they shouldn't be used out of a clinical trial.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Officials in Santa Clara County, California, said there were local deaths from COVID now up to three weeks before what we thought was the nation's first known fatality and the first death wasn't from somebody who had been overseas. How significant is that to you?

HOJAT: Well, so we suspected there have been asymptomatic cases going back for some time. And I think that explains some of the transmission that we've seen and rates that we weren't necessarily expecting at different times.

But I don't know if it changes a lot right now, other than the same things we've been saying from the beginning, that the more people we can test, the better. If we could test everybody, that would be the best-case scenario.

COOPER: Dr. Hojat, I appreciate your time. Thank you. And thank you for all your efforts.

HOJAT: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up next, I'll talk with the mayor of Las Vegas who calls the statewide lockdown in Nevada total insanity and is pushing for the reopening of strip and casinos.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:20]

COOPER: With nearly 4,000 cases and 163 coronavirus deaths statewide, Nevada's governor says now is not the time to let up on social distancing.

The Mayor of Las Vegas, however, seems eager to roll the dice. Wants to get people back to work. It's been a month since the Vegas Strip was shut down creating a

staggering financial deficit for the city. For that reason and others, Mayor Carolyn Goodman said it's time for gamblers to come back and calls the statewide lockdown, quote, "total insanity."

Mayor Goodman joins me now.

Thank you so much for being with us, Mayor.

You say you assume everyone has the virus is just asymptomatic. You want Vegas back in business. Is that a responsible call to make?

MAYOR CAROLYN GOODMAN (I), LAS VEGAS, NV: That wasn't the call I was really making. It was to get people back to work. We have so many in our hospitality crew. We're 2.5 million people down in southern Nevada and we have so many out of work because --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But you want the casinos open, yes?

GOODMAN: Well, that's a piece of it. I want the hotel rooms open. We have 155,000 hotel rooms and most of our people who live here and are part of the population are hooked to those hotel rooms in some way or ancillary way.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So you want hotel rooms, casinos, the theatres open? You want Vegas back in business, no?

GOODMAN: I want our restaurants open. I want our small businesses open. I want people back in employment. We have so many families that can't even afford to get the groceries for their family because they've been out of work for six weeks.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But casinos, you want them open? Because obviously, visitors are not going to come without casinos and shows and things.

GOODMAN: Well, no, they'll come because they love, we've got major league sports here.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You want stadiums open?

GOODMAN: I'd love everything open because I think we've had viruses for years that have been here.

COOPER: So that -- that is the call, you said you weren't making. That is the call. You want casinos open, stadiums open, restaurants open, you want Vegas back in business.

(CROSSTALK) GOODMAN: Anderson, you're being very specific and I appreciate it because that's where you're seeing it.

No, the reality is I want us open in the city of Las Vegas so our people can go back to work. And that's it. Because we're putting children and families back out on the street. And very much a part of it for our convention business are our hotels. And, yes, gambling, and gambling is a part of it.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So you want conventions in the town too?

GOODMAN: Absolutely. I want everything back. We've never closed down the United States. We've never closed down Nevada. We've never closed down Las Vegas because that's our job.

Entertainment capital of the world where everything is clean. We would never have gotten to the point we are now as the center for entertainment, conventions and sports and everything else, so positive.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Let me ask you. Right. You're talking about encouraging hundreds of thousands of people to come to Las Vegas.

GOODMAN: Yes.

COOPER: I get the financial losses people are suffering, which is awful.

But you're encouraging, I mean, hundreds of thousands of people coming there in casinos, smoking, drinking, touching slot machines, breathing circulated air, and then returning home to states around America and countries around the world. Doesn't that sound like a virus petri dish?

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: No, it sounds like you're being an alarmist. I've lived a long life. I grew up in the heart of Manhattan. I knew what it's like to be with subways and crammed into elevators.

COOPER: I'm not being alarmist.

GOODMAN: I think you are by saying what you have just said.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So you don't believe there should be any social distancing? You don't believe --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Of course, I believe there should be, of course. I'm rational.

COOPER: How do you do that in a casino?

GOODMAN: That's up to them to figure out. I don't run a casino.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. You're the mayor of Las Vegas --

GOODMAN: Yes.

COOPER: -- and you want casinos to be open, even though you have no authority over casinos.

GOODMAN: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: You say open them up, but you have no responsibility about how that would be done safely.

GOODMAN: No, no. You're blurring -- no, no. You're blurring --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You said that's not your job.

GOODMAN: I'm not a private owner of a hotel. I wish I were. And I would have the cleanest hotel with six feet figured out for every human being that comes in there.

COOPER: If you can't figure out how to do this safely, why, as mayor of a city that you are responsible for the people's safety, are you calling for something that you have no plan for how it would be done safely?

GOODMAN: I am not a private owner. That's the competition in this country. The free enterprise and to be able to make sure that what you offer the public meets the needs of the public.

[14:40:01]

Right now, we're in a crisis health-wise and so for a restaurant to be open or a small boutique to be open, they better figure it out. That's their job. That's not the mayor's job.

COOPER: So -- you said in another interview, the businesses competition will destroy the business if they become evident they have a disease, they're closed down. It's that simple.

GOODMAN: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: You stand by that? Because it would take weeks, as I think you probably know, before anyone realized a place was an epicenter of viral infection. I mean, it would take weeks for that to actually show up. You're comfortable with that?

GOODMAN: You're very good, Anderson. I've watched you for years. And I'm not going down that road.

COOPER: I'm focused on that you're saying, Madam Mayor --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But you're saying, doesn't --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: No. That's your opinion of what you think I'm saying. And I am being very clear.

COOPER: OK.

GOODMAN: I think our governor has a great and --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But you're saying competition --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: I want --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You want it to be like the free market, everybody gets to go into these restaurants, and if it becomes a center for viral infection, that the markets will decide?

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Anderson, nope. We weren't.

COOPER: That's what you said.

GOODMAN: We weren't broken when we were closed down.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You stand by what you said --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: I think I had it.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You said let the businesses open, competition will destroy that businesses, if, in fact, there's evidence

GOODMAN: Yes.

COOPER: -- they have a disease there.

GOODMAN: Yes. COOPER: So that should happen. Just let the businesses open. If it becomes a vector for viral infection and those people go back to their states and around the world, so be it?

GOODMAN: It's a responsibility of each one of us as a human being and part of the civilized world to know when we're sick. We don't do bad things to people at all ever.

This is a city that's built itself because of the ingenuity and creativity and passion that people have here to work and to live the American dream. And that's who we are. And we have proven we've been very successful.

So all your questions are great, but I'm not -- please let us open the city of Las Vegas, let us get back to business.

COOPER: OK. One of the things you claim, you take your lead from Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci does not, I mean, let me play something Dr. Fauci has said about reopening and about social distancing.

GOODMAN: No, no, no. I was asked -- wait, wait.

COOPER: OK. Ok.

GOODMAN: The whole thing is, when I was asked, who are the people advising you, I had said different physicians, different people out there, I mean, a whole bunch of people that I hear from all the time, because I am the mayor and, fortunately, I get their input. Some good, some bad.

And the reality was, when I was asked through the governor's office, who is my authority because he's relying on his authority --

COOPER: Right.

GOODMAN: -- I said, well let's go to the top of the line. I hear -- I don't know Dr. Fauci.

COOPER: Sure.

GOODMAN: But I take his word.

COOPER: OK.

GOODMAN: And when he said, this germ -- wait one second, you asked the question. Let me answer it.

GOODMAN: I'm not interrupting you. I'm listening.

GOODMAN: OK. Thank you. Maybe it's breathing. I'm sorry. Being silly here.

The reality is he said this very serious disease that's out there could last into December, could recur every year, and could be part of something that we will be dealing with for a long, long time.

COOPER: Right.

GOODMAN: So taking that into consideration and that we have -- once you're diagnosed, you're positive, we have no preventative treatment other than staying away from everybody, which is your choice to do, and has been asked by our governor and everybody's doing. But with no timeline, no treatment, and no cure, no vaccine, this could go on for months, maybe even a year.

COOPER: But what we do know -- the science tells us -- and Dr. Fauci isn't saying wait a year. Dr. Fauci is saying and all scientists are saying it just needs some more time to get this to where medical establishment is up and running and where there's enough PPE and there's enough testing being done and contact tracing.

What are you doing as mayor to improve contact tracing and testing in Las Vegas?

GOODMAN: Well, first of all, as someone who's pretty sure she possibly had in January, I have already been into the hospitals to say they take my plasma.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about, what are you doing as mayor --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: And I am calling upon everyone to go ahead, if they're positive, to go ahead and see if they can help be part of the preventative or the treatment pool that will have this plasma available.

(CROSSTALK)

[14:45:07]

COOPER: Are you doing anything on testing and contact tracing? Because in order to open businesses --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: I don't have that. I don't have that. Well, no, that's for our scientists. And the whole thing is fact.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Fact, you're calling for businesses to reopen.

GOODMAN: Yes.

COOPER: Every scientist and person who looks at this says what we really need to do that is more testing and more contact tracing.

GOODMAN: Wait, wait. You're saying -- no, that can't work. We're not getting the truth. I know over the years, going back to the 1950s, with the atomic bomb, don't worry about more testing in Nevada. You'll all be fine. Take a shower.

The reality is the southwest --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You're the one saying you'll all be fine.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: What they're saying is --

GOODMAN: No, no, no.

COOPER: -- testing and contact --

GOODMAN: No, you're putting words in my mouth. I said, open up Las Vegas. Let us get started and go back to work.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: What as mayor, what as mayor, what are you doing to encourage --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: -- out of work and can't even feed their families or take care of their families.

COOPER: I get the pain that's out there and it's real. I'm not minimizing it at all.

GOODMAN: Yes, it's real.

COOPER: I'm just asking you, as mayor, what are you doing to improve testing, make it more accessible, and improve contact tracing because every scientist who you say you listen to will tell you that's what you need in order to get online as fast as possible. What are you doing?

GOODMAN: Every single e-mail that comes in with offers to give us the kits and get everything here, I send it up to the people in the hospitals for them to filter through to find out if these test kits and everything that's being offered and provided --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You said in another interview --

GOODMAN: That's not my job.

COOPER: -- you talked to Los Angeles mayor, Eric Garcetti.

GOODMAN: Yes, he's a friend.

COOPER: Did you actually talk to--

GOODMAN: Yes.

COOPER: If you talked to Mayor Garcetti, he's doing everything he can to improve testing in Los Angeles.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: I think that's wonderful. And --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You said it's your job.

GOODMAN: No, it's not part of our job. That's part of our health department, part of our hospital jobs, our labs. Those are the ones with the experience.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You're not going to roll up your sleeves, helping out your health department --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: My days are so full. I am everywhere in this city trying to hold the hands of families and everyone else to get them back to work so they can pay for the food for their children and keep a roof over their head.

And we are 2.3 million and we have so many, probably close to 900,000, out of work because this wonderful city has been shut down.

COOPER: Listen, again, I don't want to seem, I'm not -- I understand your position, but I don't really understand your position because I think you see your position, I guess, because you have no control over the casinos, and take no responsibility for it, you can call for whatever you want to call for.

But the people who actually do have to be responsible for the health and safety of the people in those casinos and the employees --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Without question, absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right, those people are saying --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: -- the owners.

COOPER: -- it's not time for that yet. I want to just show you --

(CROSSTALK) GOODMAN: No, they aren't. No, no, no. It's depending upon with whom you speak. I hear all the time from the casino owners who want to put their employees back to work, 7,000 people.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I'm sure a couple of businesses up and running.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: And, Anderson, you can find people to speak on either side.

COOPER: Right.

GOODMAN: Which happened in this country, so much anger.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: The governor says -- -

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: The governor says that --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: The governor says, unfortunately, I've known the mayor. I don't need politicians weighing in on what --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I am not a politician.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: I am a politician because I'm the mayor.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: No, no, no.

And who are his people? And are they, in fact, the best that we can have? I'm assuming yes.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: And all I'm doing is asking for a plan so I can tell our people who are calling by the thousands, when are they going to get a paycheck. How can they get a roof over their heads?

I am down in the groundwork with the people with people who made this city what it is, who have come here to live, come here to build it and we were not broken and we need to get back to work. That's it.

COOPER: There's, Chinese researchers who have shown how this virus spreads. I want to put up for our viewers -- (CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Oh, you are good.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Anderson, you are tough.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: China. No, this isn't China. This is Las Vegas, Nevada.

COOPER: This is a -- wow, OK, that's really ignorant. This is a restaurant and the yellow circle --

GOODMAN: That's ignorant to say that --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: That's an ignorant statement.

That's a restaurant. And, yes, it's in China but there are human beings, too. That yellow is a person --

GOODMAN: Of course, there are.

COOPER: -- is asymptomatic and infected. And all those red circles are other diners who that one diner passed the virus to. All those that had air-conditioning. And they believe it was the air-conditioning which helped the virus spread to all of the other people.

[14:50:14]

GOODMAN: And you remember the Legionnaires' Disease in 1976 in Philadelphia. Came all through the air-conditioning. You don't remember because you're younger.

COOPER: I do remember.

GOODMAN: Typhoid Mary. Typhoid Mary. Who, I think passed away -- well, anyway, during the late '30s. Rode the buses and was a cook and was asymptomatic and spread it. A fear of getting typhoid and she never showed a sign of it. And she lived most of her life quarantined. The reality was, I think, 58 people passed away from typhoid.

And so we're aware of this. We learn from history. We've had Ebola. We've had the West Nile. We've had polio. We've had these --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: None of those were as infectious in Las Vegas. You didn't have people with Ebola on a casino floor. If you did --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Well we don't know that. COOPER: Well, you do because if you had it --

GOODMAN: And remember West Nile because the swimming pool on the next property was filled with mosquitos and the people who had abandoned the house left the pool full.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Just as mayor, aren't you --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: -- the challenges.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Are you, Mayor, are you not concerned when you see just that restaurant --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Yes, I'm concerned every day.

COOPER: -- how air-conditioning spreads this and other people become infected.

GOODMAN: Yes. From Legionnaires' Disease. That is what I said. We lost a lot of people in that hotel who had gone ahead and been in the hotel.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And there were steps -- right. And there were steps to take to stop that by changing the air filtering if my memory serves me correct on Legionnaires Disease.

There are not yet the steps to take with this other than social distancing.

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Right. So people do that. I love watching our people here. They're so careful.

And even as we have -- we work every single day. I have not missed a day. And anybody who was in or comes into the office that needs an appointment or has an issue, they all are with their masks on or we always enforce social distancing and the office is absolutely pristine with germs --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You're talking about your office?

GOODMAN: Well, hopefully, everything in the building. We shut down the lobby. (CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But if you -- you know -- look, Mayor, you love your city and I get you want it to go back to work. And I totally get that. And you hear from people and you're in a tough position. I get it.

But it just seems really irresponsible given that, A., you are actually have no responsibility or say over casinos or what happens on the strip, that you're not out there --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: -- that's true.

COOPER: -- you're not doing anything about trying to improve testing like your friend Mayor Garcetti is in Los Angeles or improving contract tracing. You're saying there get back to work and get the casinos open again.

And you have no idea or plan or done nothing to figure out what is the best way to make that happen. How far apart should a -- a dealer be from the people. How should the hours -- you're offering nothing other than being a cheerleader, which I guess is what part of your job is. And I respect that. And you seem like a very nice person.

But I don't understand, do you not have any sense of responsibility if you're calling for something to at least try to work to make it --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: I speak -- OK, I speak with the owners of our city casinos every day. Almost. And they're all in such pain of having to furlough or let everybody go in the casinos.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I'm sure the casino owners are very sad. I get that.

GOODMAN: No, they're sensitive people that care about their employees and having shut down the businesses here. These are people -- not the strip hotels, that is under the jurisdiction of the county or unincorporated county. Our jurisdiction here --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I'm sure -- my heart --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: -- the casino owners, I'm sure they're probably doing OK. It is the people who are working on the floor who are the ones that will become infected and potentially die.

GOODMAN: You're talking disease. I'm talking life. I'm talking life and living. These are people --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: That makes no sense.

GOODMAN: Well, maybe it doesn't to you. It does to us here in Las Vegas.

They've had to release all of these workers that will no other source of income to feed their children. And they're also having to make way to go ahead and help support the city. So at the time --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Usually, the ones releasing the workers are doing OK. They're the ones that --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Maybe they are.

COOPER: It is the ones who are actually released who are really suffering.

(CROSSTALK)

[14:55:07]

GOODMAN: I'm talking about the workers. I'm talking about the low- income, middle-income workers that are out free and without a dime in their pocket.

COOPER: So you're talking about casino owners, your friends --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: No, I'm not talking about casino --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You were.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: No. No. That is my focus from day one. If you go back to everything I say. It's been always about putting our workers back to work. It is not about the casinos. It is not about anything other than putting those who have lost their jobs in a city that wasn't broken and didn't have disease back to work.

We're 2.3 million people here. We have --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Well, wait a minute, wait a minute. So 3,900 cases in Nevada, 163 deaths, and that is with social distancing.

GOODMAN: Nevada. Nevada. COOPER: Yes, in Nevada. You're saying there was no problem in Las Vegas like there was no disease? There was not the virus in Las Vegas? Because earlier, you said you believe everyone is asymptomatic.

GOODMAN: No. I'm sure in January. And I know plenty of people who were coughing, some had fevers and if they did they stayed home because they thought it was the flu. The flu is unbelievably powerful.

And so, of course, we know that. And we tried to work on the sensitivities of people to be responsible as to spreading any kind of germ, whether it is the flu or whether it is --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: -- social distancing in Las Vegas, don't you think it has worked. 163 deaths, that is -- compared to other states, that is low for those families --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: We're 2.3 --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: -- over 2.3 million people in southern Nevada and we've had 150 deaths.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And 163 I believe is the latest number.

GOODMAN: Well, that is for Nevada. That is Nevada. This is down here, 150.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So you've had almost -- by the way, in Nevada, in Las Vegas, you have 150 deaths and 163 deaths --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: Correct. We're 2.3 million people.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Because of social distancing that you would have had far more without it? Do you not believe that?

GOODMAN: So 2.3 million here. There are two point -- there are three million, two overall in the state. The numbers may be off but I know we're well over two million.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Do you not believe social distancing has helped keep people alive? GOODMAN: We're at the lion's share of the population and the income

and the jobs. When you have 2.3 million and you have lost -- and every one of those 150 -- oh, my gosh, it could be your own mother, your own grandmother, your grandfather, your brother, your sister, any one of those lives is a tragic loss.

But when you count 150 verses 2.3 million, you have to say we have to open up. We have to go back. Our bus drivers, our --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But hasn't it been because of social distancing that the numbers have been what they are?

GOODMAN: How do you know until we have a controlled group? We offered to be a controlled group. Anybody who knows anything about statistics knows that for instance you have a vaccine --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You're offering the citizens of Las Vegas to be a control group to see if your theory on social distancing works or doesn't work?

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: No. No. Wrong. Absolutely wrong. Don't put words in my mouth.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You just said you'll be a control group.

GOODMAN: Excuse me. What I said was, I offered to be a controlled group. And I was told by our statistician is you can't do that because people all from all parts of southern Nevada come in to work in the city. And I said, oh, that's too bad.

Because when you have a disease, you have a placebo that gets the water and the sugar and those that actually get the shot. We would love to be that placebo side so you have something to measure against. So all of the data.

COOPER: You want to get the placebo, and not the --

GOODMAN: Are you going to let me finish or not?

COOPER: The group that gets the placebo usually gets the short end of the stick.

GOODMAN: Well you don't know. How do you know when you --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Mayor. Mayor, if casinos reopen are you going to be inside of those casinos every single night putting your own life on the line?

GOODMAN: I have lived in this town for 56 years.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: That is not the question. Are you going to casinos every night and put your life on the line like all of the workers --

(CROSSTALK)

GOODMAN: They don't need it. We weren't broken. Tragically, 150 people we lost. Tragic. We have 2.3 million people here.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I haven't heard you say yes you would sit on the casino floors every night along with the people that you say you are holding their hands with.

GOODMAN: What is the purpose of that? First of all, I have a family.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Because it would be putting money where your mouth is to use I guess a Las Vegas term.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: If you say it is safe --

(CROSSTALK)

[15:00:03]

GOODMAN: Anderson. Anderson --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: So you're not willing -

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: -- with the window open and breathe the re-filtered air.

GOODMAN: First of all, I don't gamble.