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Cuomo Prime Time

POTUS' Absurd Ideas Makes Everyone Scratching Their Heads; Dr. Rick Bright Wants to File Complaint; Model Predicts Daily Deaths In Georgia Will Peak April 29th; At Least 868,395 Coronavirus Cases In The U.S.; Coronavirus Death Toll At 49,861; ICU Nurse Faces Off With Lockdown Protesters; Hail To The Frontline Heroes; Hospital Workers Go On Singing Tour To Boost Staff Morale. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 23, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Look, we know leadership matters especially now as we struggle for guidance on re-opening. We need the president to be on the same page with science. Doubting the utility of testing is just silly. But throwing out the idea of household disinfectant injections and shooting light into the body as a cure for the virus, what?

Talk about the cure being worse than the disease. Somebody better takes the president's temperature. The bigger question is why does our president keep throwing out these unproven remedies and continue to downplay the science and scientists who should be guiding us right now.

We also have more news tonight on that vaccine official who claims he's been sidelined by the president. One thing is for sure, he has not been silent.

Also, we knew we were going to learn that many more of us have been exposed to this virus than those who have been counted. But this preliminary antibody data in New York could help us figure out when we'll get out of this.

We know politics are in play. But the key remains us being on the same page. Together as ever as one. Let's get after it.

Now, hydroxychloroquine was pushed too hard by this president. We know that now. But at least there was anecdotal evidence for the drug helping some people and we'll see if there's any science to it. But let's be clear, the chloroquine thing was a genius stroke compared to this poppycock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Suppose we hit the body with a tremendous whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light and I said supposing you brought the light inside the body in which you can do either through the skin or some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting.

(OFF-MIC) TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number in the lungs.

So, it would be interesting to check that. So that, you're going to have to use medical doctors but it sounds, it sounds interesting to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Take two shots of Windex, swallow this light bulb, and call me in the morning. Come on, man.

Kaitlan Collins had a front row seat to all this at the White House. She joins us now. What was the thought in the gallery as this was going on?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, one really notable moment was when the president turned to Dr. Deborah Birx who was seated there next to this Department of Homeland Security official who was talking about the study and the president asked her if she had heard about light or heat being used to kill a virus in a way like this. She said not as a treatment.

She talked about fevers that are obviously used to break viruses and treat them obviously in the human body and its natural reaction. But she did not seem to, seem like she had any idea really about the results of this. She seemed a little confused.

It's not clear if the doctors on the coronavirus task force were briefed on this ahead of time. And so it's really notable to see this doctor, or this homeland security official come out and talk about the results of this, but say that it is not something it had been peer reviewed, it was not going to be used -- or they were not going to be doing the work of seeing if it was a potential treatment.

While the president was saying, you know, he saw it as a little bit of vindication since months ago, Chris, you remember he was saying that the coronavirus could go away in April or when it warms up.

CUOMO: Yes.

COLLINS: Obviously, that hasn't happened. And obviously, there's a lot of questions about this. Because we're seeing big outbreaks in states like Georgia and Florida where it is warm --

CUOMO: Right.

COLLINS: -- and it is humid and in countries like Singapore. So, still so many questions about this. And it was really notable that they came out at a briefing with slides and all to talk about the results of the study.

CUOMO: Right. The study was about surfaces though.

COLLINS: Yes.

CUOMO: And what kind of light or other type of treatments and different media you could use to affect viruses on surfaces, not in the human body.

And the idea of household disinfectants inside the body, I mean, we can't say enough, nobody was briefed on that. There is no science behind that. The only question is where the president got this or what did he misinterpret.

So, let's go from, you know, the bizarre to what we know actually happened in fact, but we're figuring out why. And that goes to, Kaitlan, Dr. Rick Bright. Is the best reckoning still that this was all about him saying things about hydroxychloroquine and priorities at the White House, that that's why he was moved? Or is there more to the story now?

COLLINS: Well, those are his allegations. He has not filed a whistleblower complaint yet but he says today that he intends to do so soon. Because he is basically saying that he wants them to inspect why he was removed from this post. Because he says he and other scientists were facing political pressure.

[22:04:57]

And that's why there was this really notable moment in the briefing today where the White House is really not responding, Chris, formally to these allegations that were laid out in this very long scathing statement from Dr. Rick Bright.

And so today I tried to asked the president what was his response, does he dispute these allegations, and this is the way he responded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: The White House has not responded to the --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: You don't -- I told you. CNN is fake news. Don't talk to me. Go ahead, please.

COLLINS: But he said he was retaliated against and that's why he was removed from his job. Do you have a response to that?

TRUMP: OK. Next question.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: So, you see no response at all. There were no other questions about Dr. Bright. The president did not weigh in on any of the other times. And there's been no formal statement from the White House communications team.

We have one statement from HHS that we got late last night where they were saying disputing something that Dr. Bright did about requesting an emergency use of hydroxychloroquine, putting it in the national stock pile. His team disputed that today, but we're not hearing anything from the White House on this.

CUOMO: Well, I'll tell you, it's interesting. You know, Fauci's team put out a memo I think a day or so ago, about all the active protocols for treating coronavirus.

COLLINS: Yes.

CUOMO: And hydroxychloroquine was in there as a net neutral. They weren't advising it or not advising it. And obviously that's a nod to the fact that they don't know enough yet.

But Kaitlan, good for you. Your job is there to ask the questions. It doesn't matter what you're told. And I've got to tell you, it takes a lot of hutzpah to talk about what's fake after talking about maybe swallowing household disinfectants of being the key to ending coronavirus. So, thank you for doing your job. It's great to have you tonight.

All right. Dr. William Schaffner joins us now. He's an infectious disease specialist and CDC adviser. Good to have you, doc. Doctor, you hear me? All right. Let's try this.

I got Andy Slavitt with us who understands how to put policy at play in the White House and dealing with the public health policy and how we deal with that politically and with the public as the former acting administrator of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid. Andy, do I have you?

ANDY SLAVITT, ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES: You've got me.

CUOMO: Always have a backup. So, was I wasting my time shivering and sweating when I was just a couple of sprays of fantastic away from getting over this virus?

SLAVITT: You know, I only wish that that was the answer. I guess, I mean, it would be so much easier if that was, in fact, the case. We could just shoot up some hand sanitizer.

But, you know, I think -- I think that this idea of clutching at straws one day and then having to reverse yourself the next day, you know, it's not a great strategy.

The public is actually more patient than he realizes. There was a poll out this morning that said that 80 percent of Americans actually believe that the right thing to do was staying home. People realize this is a complex problem.

I don't -- I think you've got public officials including your brother, the governor of New York who are more than willing to level with the public and say this is a hard challenge, it's a marathon. But why the president keeps trying to find quick fixes, pulling them out of his bag, it just, it feels like an impulse of his. CUOMO: Well, it's definitely an impulse. And you know, look, you have

to learn how to cover these things the right way. And you're not a psychiatrist which some may suggest is the kind of doctor that would have to take this on.

But look, the best reckoning of why he does this is testing he puts down why. Because it is a limitation on recovery. And giving this what they'll say is optimism, even if it's completely irrational and far- fetched, it seems to be something that's in his wheelhouse.

Hydroxychloroquine, what do you got to lose? Try it. You know, that was one thing. That was a little bit risky as it was. But he had to have heard something about using U.V. light on surfaces and just made a leap that maybe someday light will be in the body. The household cleaner thing, I don't know what would possess him to think that eating anything like that could ever be a good thing.

SLAVITT: The problem when you have yes people around you is when you say stuff like that, then they know that you're going to get crushed if you disagree with them or fired or replaced is that they say, gosh, maybe, that's an interesting idea. He goes, see, I've got an interesting idea. And, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, I felt bad for Dr. Birx. You know, you saw what happened in the session there. You want to be respectful. At the end of the day, this is the president of the United States. And yes, he has to respect the presidency himself in terms of how he acts, but you can't put these people on the spot like that.

[22:09:56]

I don't think it's fair to do with Birx. I don't think it's fair to do with Fauci to outside the wheelhouse of their responsibility. To make them commentators on the president is not only dangerous to keep them in place. We obviously need them.

It's also arguably not the job of a Slavitt or a Fauci. You know, for me to put you on the spot when you were in there and say hey, do you like the way he explained that. Kind of puts you to bad position.

SLAVITT: It's difficult. It's difficult to do. And you know, but increasingly, he's going to have the opposite effect, Chris, of what I think he's trying to do.

So, for example, he has this, he leaves this impression that he can choose to open the economy or not open the economy. The truth is he didn't shut down the economy.

CUOMO: Right.

SLAVITT: The American public shut down the economy.

CUOMO: Right. SLAVITT: We decided what was in our best interest. And so, the sense that our politicians will control things, if we feel well, we will follow them. When we don't, we will end up trying to do what we think is in our best interest and be confused. Some people will be misled and I think that's the scary part and that's the dangerous part.

CUOMO: Right.

SLAVITT: But he doesn't have to cross this.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, first of all, (Inaudible) let me be very clear. I'll have fun with Andy. Because look, I'm giving the president a break by making fun of this and joking about it because if I were to take it really seriously that he was making this kind of suggestion about sucking down some Windex to deal with COVID, it's too absurd a conversation to have.

It speaks to an incompetence level that I don't want to even really fathom. So, I'll take it as a joke and just assume that he wasn't joking. But it was absurd what he said.

The problem is what Andy is referring to which is people believe what he says -- hopefully not about drinking household disinfectant -- but that you know what, I don't really trust testing and you now, I don't think this is that serious. And by the way, I think this reopening really needs to happen. And then he sends that message.

Now, he takes a step back on Georgia, Andy. This is the part I don't understand. And then speaks truth. The governors are going too fast. I think that loss of life is an issue here. How do you explain that? I mean, it's the right thing to say. But how does the same guy say that and then say swallow some Clorox.

SLAVITT: I think we probably have a similar interpretation, which is that as soon as he thinks that something bad might happen, he distances himself. Whether that's economic or health-wise he doesn't want the responsibility for things that could potentially go wrong.

And of course, he wants the credit and will claim the credit when things go well. And I think that that's what's happening in the case of Georgia. He felt like it was a mistake. He felt like there could be problems. Someone told him that there's going to be hotspots, so he did the self-protective thing.

And look, that was the right thing to do in that particular case. But I don't think it was motivated by him having some clairvoyance about the public health crisis. I think it was motivated by him sensing doom and wanting to distance himself.

CUOMO: Yes. I think that's probably it. And look, it's unfortunate that we have to have this kind of political mind reading thing and what we should be talking about are the different options on the table, what protocols and plans are on place for the phases of reopening and you know, how that assessment will go. I mean, that's got to be the biggest concern right now is that as

people start to get sick of the story, OK, they've heard it all, 90 percent in this poll reflect that we have enough information to make good choices for ourselves. We know. We get it now. We've learned enough.

I'm sick of this. I want to reopen. Let's go. This is the most critical point for leadership. Because, Andy, as we both know even with your expertise, we both want things to reopen. You know? I want to be able to go places with my family and eat again and live my life and do all the things that we want to do before we run out of time. It's very appealing. And it's hard to get people to hold off on that.

And this kind of leadership, what does it do in your opinion to keeping the public where they need to be during a very delicate time of transition and patience?

SLAVITT: Well, look, we all should have a bit of empathy for all of the public officials. They didn't invent this situation. None of them want people to die. And there's no good choices.

And so, they are all wrestling in their own way with the fact that whatever they do, these are challenging choices. Now, I think that the leaders that have emerged that we respect the most are ones that help explain to people look, this is what's good for all of us even if this doesn't feel what's right for you individually.

By doing what's right for all of us, you're going to help the workers and the local hospital. You're going to help the scientists have more time. And they really explain that and they tell people what they know and what they don't know with a fair amount of humility.

And when someone calls like the surgeon general or something on changing his mind on masks, it's perfectly OK to say, you know what, I thought that then, I think this now.

The public can be and should be forgiving of people who say we are learning as we go along. But it's the bravado and the confidence that's done too early around things that we don't know will work or things we don't work. That's when the public can get misled and that's when I think we can have a problem.

[22:15:09]

CUOMO: Mixed messages and you'll lose your audience at this level. And let's be honest, we're coming out of a huge deficit of trust to begin with. The bright light though, not to make a play on what the president was saying about shining a bright light.

But the bright light in the situation thus far, though, is you've got Governor DeWine in Ohio, Republican. You've got Murphy, Governor Murphy in New Jersey, Democrat. You've got Hogan in Maryland, Governor Hogan, Republican. You've got Cuomo in New York, Democrat. And they are all in communication to working together. They're burying spats. They don't talk partisan. That's been the best part of leadership that comes out of this in my opinion so far and we're seeing people respond to it.

All these men and women, Whitmer in Michigan, Democrat governor in the 70s of approval. If you're straight, if you're consistent, people will respect the job of government and respond well to the leadership. Andy Slavitt, a very redoubtable leader in his own right. Thank you for joining me.

SLAVITT: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. The president versus science on coronavirus. This ongoing effort to downplay the science and scientists and then pitch whacky stuff. Why and where does it leave us? Next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. Let's just get a little context for what's going on now and the message from the top and what it means for our overall public health policy.

We had the president openly supporting a drug, hydroxychloroquine, that had not been proven. The research since then has been sketchy. Got to stay open. We'll see what the science shows. Some of the studies showed it's dangerous. Some showed it's neutral. It was certainly premature.

But that was a different category of reckless from what he said today. You know, people use ultraviolet light on surfaces and there are other suggestions of how it can be used in connection to treatments.

But shining light inside the body and maybe swallowing disinfectants as a way of getting rid of the virus? I mean, nobody is talking about this. This is not about a briefing. This is not about science. But it is about Trump's ideas of trying to be better than the science and the facts.

With more on the story, here's Alex Marquardt.

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a showdown that plays out again and again, the president versus science.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Armed with facts, figures, and some of the smartest minds in the country, President Trump chooses to instead go with his gut.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This is just my hunch.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MARQUARDT: Or what he hopes will happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's also possible it doesn't come back at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: The latest episode was saying Wednesday that the coronavirus may not come back later this year. It was in response and direct contradiction to the head of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield telling the Washington Post that the virus could come back in the winter and be even more difficult when coupled with the seasonal flu.

When Dr. Anthony Fauci took the microphone, he backed up Redfield and set the president straight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There will be coronavirus in the fall.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We didn't have --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: The other medical expert on the coronavirus task force, Dr. Deborah Birx also unwilling to agree with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And doctor, when do you say there's a good chance that COVID will not come back?

BIRX: We don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Trump has said he wants to give people hope that there's light at the end of the tunnel. But false hope can be damaging, even deadly. President Trump has promoted the use of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine with no proof that its effective against COVID-19.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you're a doctor, a nurse, a first responder, a medical person going into hospitals, they say taking it before the fact is good. But what do you have to lose? They say take it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Several new studies including one by the V.A. say the drug may actually harm critically ill patients.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: So, what do I know? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor, but I have common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Trump's boosting of the treatment was part of the fire storm that resulted in a top HHS scientist losing his job. In a stunning statement on Wednesday, Dr. Rick Bright said that he was sidelined after he resisted, quote, "efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections."

Bright said he insisted that money for the coronavirus be invested into safe and scientifically vetted solutions and not in drugs, vaccines, and other technologies that lack scientific merit. One of those was hydroxychloroquine. The president claimed Wednesday he'd never heard of Dr. Bright.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If the guy says he was pushed out of job. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. Chair DeGette --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Another scientist the president has heard of is Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. She infuriated the president after warning in late February that severe illnesses in the U.S. related to the coronavirus were not a question of if but when.

The president got the news as he boarded Air Force One in India to head home. He then cancelled a meeting with top health experts about mitigating the virus after he heard what Messonnier had said and the stock market crashed.

Trump's skepticism for science extends well beyond the COVID crisis. It's been a thread throughout his term from pulling out of the Paris climate accord to ripping up environmental regulations, even disputing the path of hurricanes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That was the original chart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Last September showing a map of the path of Hurricane Dorian that the president changed with a sharpie to include Alabama even though meteorologists said there would be no impact on the state.

The president of course is not a fan of anyone whose messages run counter to his. So, after Dr. Nancy Messonnier spoke out in February, she wasn't fired but she was no longer allowed to speak on behalf of the CDC about coronavirus. [22:30:05]

We should note that the CDC hasn't held one of their own press briefings sine last month. Instead, the CDC now participates in the coronavirus task force briefing at the White House which of course is now led daily by President Donald Trump.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

CUOMO: Thanks to Alex Marquardt for doing that story for us tonight. And remember, look, I know everything is so heavy right now. This is all so scary. We're having a little fun with this because why?

There's no question -- don't try to make it OK. All right. Don't flood me with these explanations. But the homeland security guy said use U.V. light to kill the virus and people use bleach. Yes, on surfaces. On surfaces they use those things.

There was no discussion about the body and doing those things to the body. This idea of one upping it, that Trump has an instinct about how to sell it bigger does not make it OK. Why?

One, there's no basis in fact or science. Two, we need our leaders to reflect our best understandings right now. Why? Because there's a lot of irrational wants right now. How do you counter, for instance, what's about to happen in Georgia. It is a premature opening.

Yes, the president has said the right thing, but what kind of credibility does he carry when he says something like that? it leads us to our next question. How likely are the consequences, negative consequences, from reopening too soon?

Let's bring in a top medical mind looking at Georgia, next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. Here's the latest. Georgia's governor is moving forward with his plan to reopen his state starting tomorrow. Now, we have a brand-new model that finds deaths in Georgia still have not peaked. More on that in a second. But to be clear, the state does not meet the CDC guidelines for phase one. Now to his credit, the president shifted on this, and now says he's against what Georgia is doing. How about that study? Let me show you the data.

Look at the curve, OK, when they pop it up there. You see the top of the curve? Georgia is not projected to hit the top, OK, which means the most case growth, then it starts coming down. Still a lot of case growth, still a lot of case growth, as it starts to flatten. It's not supposed to hit the peak until next week, Wednesday April 29th. Scientists say Georgia won't be able to safely reopen therefore until at least June 22nd.

So, going this early, what does it mean? What are the risks? Nearly 50,000 Americans have already died of coronavirus. So, let's discuss the probabilities. Dr. William Schaffner is here, infectious disease specialist, CDC adviser. Doc, you got me?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: I'm with you. We triumphed over technology, Chris. I'm glad to be with you.

CUOMO: It's good to have you along. I'm sure you've got some great lines for the president's kind of misreading of the different ways to kill viruses on surfaces and turning them into ways to treat it within the body. I'm sure you've got funny lines on that. But let's deal with Georgia. The early bird gets the worm, doctor. And they're confident that the reopening has worked and that there are different places where they can do it and they can't let the cure be worse than the disease. And the economic toll is severe in Georgia, time to reopen. What are the risks?

SCHAFFNER: Yes. Well, my aphorism is if you open Pandora's Box, all kinds of mischief will come out. I think we need to remember this is a highly, highly contagious virus. It can make people very, very sick, and it's also a stealth virus. It can be transmitted even though you have minimum or no symptoms. The vast majority of the population of this country and my colleagues in Georgia are the same are susceptible.

So, there are many, many people in Georgia that this virus could make sick. We need to open things up. That's very important. But we need to do it in a graduated, careful fashion, not with exuberance but with caution.

CUOMO: A couple of questions. The first push back is well we're going to do it smart. We're going to have social distancing. We're going to tell people to be careful about where they go and how they go and we're not opening everything. Sure, you can get a haircut, a massage, and a tattoo, but we're going to try to do it in a sensible a way as possible. Does that give you enough prophylaxis, enough protection?

SCHAFFNER: We need to hear that message as strongly as we need to open things up, because I think that there will be people who will hear the spirit of the governor and what the governor would like to do cutting corners, and they'll cut corners also. Will they wear those masks? Will they keep distant? Will people with chronic underlying illnesses and older persons continue to shelter at home and be cautious? Will we still have lots of good hand hygiene out there?

I'm particularly keen on people wearing masks that protects them. But even more important, it protects everyone around them. I'm skeptical that those social distancing concepts will be very penetrant. People will start shucking them off because they'll remember the way it was. Anyhow, the governor is enthusiastic about opening up. I am too.

[22:35:05]

CUOMO: Right. Governor also said a couple of weeks ago, I think it was on April Fools' Day that he had just learned that asymptomatic people could transmit the virus, could be contagious. And that had been common knowledge, especially at that level of leadership since the beginning. Now -- not the beginning, but close to the beginning. Here's the biggest obstacle I think we face right now. Compassion

fatigue. That people will start to get more comfortable with cases and loss and even death, because they have been hearing the numbers. The numbers have been big. So when they start to hear numbers that are smaller, they're tired of being -- tired of it and they want to reopen. And how do you deal with that kind of fatigue in a population that they're OK with a certain amount of death? They're OK with a certain amount of cases.

SCHAFFNER: What you have to have, Chris, as you well know is sustained consistent leadership with all those messages. And you have to oblige the population to do these things. You really have to enforce social distancing in restaurants and in other locations where people are going to go. And you have to oblige people to wear masks.

Why should any establishment permit anyone to enter the establishment that's not wearing a mask? If that becomes the social norm and is supported by leadership, you can sustain the rationale behind the compassion. And I think you can make it work. But you can't give the appearance you're cutting corners and you're tolerating folks not behaving according to the way they ought to be.

CUOMO: And quickly, doctor, people will say yes, but you know what, the projections are always wrong. You know, it's going much better than you got to try to scare us about --

SCHAFFNER: No. The projections aren't always wrong.

CUOMO: -- but that's what they say, right? That's the feeling is that you guys said it was going to be really bad. It's not that bad. We did the flattening, we did the isolating. It's going in the right direction. It's not as bad as you think.

SCHAFFNER: Well, it's not as bad as we first feared because we did all of those things, and you can't let up when you're only partway there because that second wave that sure shooting is going to happen. All of us in public health and infectious diseases just anticipate that if we go to -- many more people sick and many more people hospitalized, and yes, many deaths, I'm afraid.

CUOMO: All right. Dr. Schaffner, thank you very much. Always appreciate your expertise. And thank you for the perspective. And look, we'll watch in Georgia. Hopefully, unfortunately, we've got to hope they get lucky, that even though they're doing this at a time where they're not on the way down, hopefully it goes the right way because nobody wants to see anybody getting hurt or sick anymore.

All right. You've seen this powerful picture, right? This ICU nurse who counter protested at a rally to reopen in Arizona. Her name is Lauren Leander. And she says she was out there to represent those who are too sick to speak out. What do you think of what she did? What does she want people to know? What does she want to change? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:40:00] CUOMO: I love this story, and I hope you do as well. An ICU nurse, OK,

she's working 12-hour shifts. What does she do on her day off? She goes and stands silently against shutdown protesters in Arizona. We'll show you her there. Silent. And remember, this is her day off. She's treating coronavirus patients at a Phoenix hospital. For hours Monday, she stood in silence protesting along with several of her coworkers even as some rally goers hurled insults at the health care workers who are saving our lives. What a study in contrast? Her name is Lauren Leander. She is the nurse behind the mask. And she joins us now on Prime Time. Thank you so much for taking your precious time to be with us.

LAUREN LEANDER, ICU NURSE, BANNER UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: You're so welcome. Thank you for giving us a chance to speak.

CUOMO: So, you're working. You're killing yourself in there with your coworkers. Where does the idea come from that on my day off here's what I think we should go do?

LEANDER: You know, we were really inspired by the other viral photos from the health care workers in Denver, you know, that were going around the internet, and we just were so impressed by their action and just the power in their silence and what they did. And we said yes, like, that's the kind of action that we can take for something like this. That's what we can do.

CUOMO: What was your message?

LEANDER: You know, my message being a nurse is just to speak for the people who can't speak for themselves and to speak for the people in our hospital that are suffering in ways that the general public cannot see. So, there's a voice for the homeless and the immunocompromised and the Native American communities, the nursing homes, and just the populations that are just being devastated by this virus right now. I know those people would be urging the general public to continue to stay home for them.

CUOMO: 50,000 people have died. We know there are going to be more. We know it's a lagging indicator. We know all too often men and women like yourself are the difference between what happens. And what do you want the people to know who are protesting. Who say, hey, this is my freedom and you're messing with my freedom and it's been too long and you're killing my business and you're killing my job and I should make these decisions for myself?

[22:45:13]

LEANDER: You know, I would just love to be able to take them into the hospital with me and to, you know, put them in a pair of scrubs and to get them to see just the suffering that's going on in the hospital with these covid patients that are isolated from their families and that are dying alone. You know, I would never wish this on anyone, but if they could just see what it's like for somebody who have to pass away via FaceTime with their family, because they're not allowed in the hospital building, it's the most devastating thing you've ever seen. And you know, these people are coming out of medically induce comas

after they are recovering from covid and learning that multiple family members of theirs have died since they've been in this medically induced coma. I would just love for these people to be able to see the perspective of my patients and I would hope it would change their minds.

CUOMO: And you know, to be very clear, those FaceTime conversations are often motivate by people like you and your coworkers who come up with the ideas themselves. Facilitated themselves. This isn't about procedures. We've never dealt with this before. You know, we don't have procedures in place for how to deal with these end life situations. So, God bless you guys for thinking with such a compassionate heart. And let me ask you, as somebody who has to do so much of this. What is the hardest part for you emotionally in what you're seeing and dealing with now?

LEANDER: I think there's two parts of it. I think emotionally for me I'm really struggling because I volunteer to work every day on this covid specific unit with my coworkers that are alongside me. And so I haven't seen my own family in, you know over a month. I haven't been able to hug anybody or have any human interaction other than my shifts at work. And so, for me that has been just draining especially to see these groups of people that are protesting to kind of reverse the work that we're doing.

And then in the other sense, I am emotionally struggling, you know, seeing these people that are coming through my doors and landing in my ICU. You know, I've never been scared a day in my life as a nurse until we admitted sort of our patient zero or our first patient on this covid specific unit. And I had to run a code blue and do CPR on a patient who is covid positive who is my age and it was the scariest thing I've ever had to do in my life.

CUOMO: Such a combination of things, the unknown that it was actually killing them and that they looked like you.

LEANDER: Yes, all of those things. And I think just that this -- we had no idea what we were up against. You know, I think initially we thought this was going to be specific to the elderly or young kids or something like that. But to see somebody come through the doors who looked like me, it was absolutely terrifying.

CUOMO: Last question. And I know I'm not going to get an answer I like to this one but it doesn't matter and I'll figure it out anyway. What can we do for you guys at your hospital in Phoenix? What can we send to you? What would you guys like to help your spirits to help you keep doing the job?

LEANDER: Gosh, honestly just to stay home and to follow --

CUOMO: I knew you were going to say that. I'm cutting you off, Lauren Leander. I knew that you were going to say to stay home. You guys always stay that. But what do you need? What do you like? Can we send you anything that will make it easier for you to help the rest of us? LEANDER: Gosh, we've had such an outpouring of support. You know, we

actually have a donor list right now for people that are bringing in lunch for us every day, so we are very well-fed and we appreciate that so much. I mean, if anybody wanted to, you know, make videos or reach out to us on social media accounts or send us direct videos to thank us or just wish us well, I think that would be more than enough.

CUOMO: Done. I hope you understand how profound the impact is that you're having on your community and beyond. Crisis demand heroes and you are the best of us and you are taking care of the rest of us. And we see it and we feel it and we appreciate it. And I saw what was happening out there, and I saw how your eyes were blinking quickly because it's not easy to have people say hot and angry things to you when all you're trying to do is make them see what compassionate action is like. Thank you for taking a stand and thank you for doing your job and please, please send our regards and please stay healthy.

LEANDER: Will do. You as well. Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Lauren Leander on her day off, 12-hour shifts with her coworkers standing in silence. Why? Because they care. That is us at our best. So, while we're honoring those on the front lines, let's keep this going with our nightly love in New York City. Take a little taste.

[22:50:10]

Listen. Why do I love it so much? Because I love the spirit of the collective. I love us coming together. I love the interconnectedness. I love the grace in it. And I love the reminder that we're not all ugly politics. We are not all ugly division. People care about one another here. Together as ever as one. All right? Let's get a little sing along going. Next.

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CUOMO: All right. Tonight's Ameri-cans are the healthcare pros who are teaming up to keep their colleagues reaching for new heights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(PEOPLE SINGING)

[22:55:24]

CUOMO: That's how we do in Queens, New York, 718 strong. That's New York Presbyterian Hospital, they shared this video of Dawn Jones and Kim (inaudible) with us, why? You see them in the yellow gowns. They're going around the hospital on what they call the ain't no mountain high enough tour. I wonder if they're getting jackets made. Anyway, they are going around unit by unit. Why? To spread joy. Sometimes the most powerful medicine as these medical warriors keep up the good fight for you and me. And they are going to need all the moral boosting they can get. More than 36,000 people have been hospitalized for covid-19 around New York City. And we all know it ain't nowhere near over. All right. Now, how do we deal with this contagion?

We stay home and we fight this problem with science. Antibody testing. One of the most important tools that we have to determine if the spread has slowed. Right? If you have been exposed, you should have antibodies. If you have beaten the virus. And then makes it a little bit better. How much better? We don't know. But the testing has revealed some eye opening numbers in New York State. OK? What we can and should not take away from it. Next.

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