Return to Transcripts main page

Cuomo Prime Time

Virus Spread Silently in the Community; Mayor Steve Adler of Austin, Texas Was Interviewed About Their Re-opening of Economy Tomorrow; U.S. Still Behind in Testing. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 23, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Welcome back to Prime Time. I'm Chris Cuomo.

It's hard to believe that tonight, guess what number we're nearing in lives lost? Stolen by this virus. Fifty thousand. Put it in context. Almost two months ago we were at zero. And now I don't know if that's the right starting point anymore. In fact, I suspect it is not. Why?

Well, we know of at least two cases in California of death that happened weeks earlier. And I think the more we learn about where this virus was and the more blood that is sampled from people who have been in hospitals bore then, we're going to learn it's been around.

And look, let's be honest again, we still don't know what numbers were really talking about. Why? There's not enough testing. They don't even test people in a lot of places that are a symptomatic. Even though now they know asymptomatic transmission is real thing. And maybe you can even be most contagious before you get symptoms.

Now in that context we do have some progress. A new model from Northeastern University. What does it show? This virus was silently infecting tens of thousands of people in New York and other major cities way earlier than previously thought.

It is backed up by an antibody study here in New York. I told you we would learn it's been here longer than we thought.

Here's Nick Watt with the story.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The number of people infected by this rampant virus in New York State, the global hotspot might actually be stunning 10 times higher than we thought.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMESH ADALJA, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: It tells us that this virus is much more widespread.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WATT: Phase one of an antibody testing program suggests that as many as 2.7 million New Yorkers might have already been infected. But the state's current confirmed case count is just under 270,000.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Thirteen-point-nine percent tested positive for having the antibodies. They had the virus. They developed antibodies and they are now quote, unquote, "recovered."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: New York's death toll of around 19,000 is almost certainly also too low.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

A. CUOMO: That number is going to go up. Those deaths are only hospitalizations or nursing home deaths. That doesn't have what are called at home deaths.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Now, a higher infection rate could mean this virus is actually less deadly than we thought. Kills fewer of those who get it. And.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADALJA: We are developing some immunity to this. There are people that have mild illness that don't even know that they are sick. And those individuals maybe part of how we move forward as we start to think about reopening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: But New York is not opening up. Not yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: We need to see how it's playing out in each community and have the ability to test thoroughly and protect citizens before we think about opening up.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We absolutely need to significantly ramp up -- I am not overly confident right now at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Where ever, whenever we open, cases will likely rise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): We're never going to come up with something which gives you a zero probability or possibility that you're going to spread the virus. But what we want to do is make sure that you reduce the possibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: In Miami-Dade, despite a new case count that is not consistently coming down in accordance with those White House reopening guidelines, apparently, they are planning to open arenas, golf courses and parks with twists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIMENEZ: You will be able to play tennis. Singles tennis but not double tennis. You have to jog in a certain direction. So, there are a lot of differences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: And meat packing plants still seeing outbreaks across the country. Tyson just closed its fourth facility. A beef processing plant in Washington State to test all employees. This place usually produces enough beef every day to feed four million people. Not anymore.

Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

[23:05:03]

CUOMO: All right. Our thanks to Nick Watt for doing us that favor tonight.

Now, what do we need? You've got to start with a plan. Right? This has to be a function of planning and thought and consideration. The president on the other hand he's just tossing out ideas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm here to present talent. I'm here to present ideas. Because we want ideas to get rid of this thing. And if heat is good and if sunlight is good. That's a great thing as far as I'm concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. U.V. light on surfaces may kill the virus. Homeland security official was up there saying that. Disinfectants can kill the virus on surfaces. You'll hear things about people using disinfectant in different ways to bathe and deal with thing.

Nobody is talking about using U.V. light or disinfectant in the body. The way the president talked about it. You notice even Dr. Birx was at loss to explain how that makes sense. OK? This idea just happens to be the one that he thinks works for him politically. Why?

But more importantly, let's put that to the side. What does it mean for us in terms of healthcare policy? What does it undermine, what does it do? Let's talk to Dr. Ashish Jha. Ashish is the director of the Global Health Institute at Harvard University. Always good to have you on the show.

ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Hi, Chris. Thanks for having me back.

CUOMO: Now, easiest question of the night. I'm right on the science here, right, and the factual background of context that the homeland security official was saying U.V. light, disinfectant on surfaces we think can do a better job killing this virus so that it doesn't last as long on surfaces.

There was no shoot light into your body. There was no take a shot of this disinfectant and maybe we've got something. Nobody said anything like that. Did they?

JHA: No. And your listeners, your viewers have to know that that is not a good idea. It will not help with the virus. But it will make you very, very sick and potentially kill you.

So, taking shots of disinfectant is never a good idea. Using disinfectants on the surface that's great. You know, disinfect your surfaces, that's fine. But, yes, nobody should be doing that.

CUOMO: And look, you know, I'm not being hyper conservative about this either. We've got to be open about treatment. There's a lot of stuff we don't know. You know, my wife is a big wellness person. She takes baths that have baking soda and a cupful of bleach and she shows me a stuff from the Mayo Clinic, you know, about what that can for us.

That's different than taking a shot of it and just kind of winging that as an idea. Now from a policy perspective what's the analysis on this. Why does the president fight people look you? Fight the science of testing, saying the next wave in the fall won't be that bad. Will be OK. It won't be anything like this. But then say something like that or pitch hydroxychloroquine when nobody is telling in the science behind it. What's your diagnosis?

JHA: Yes, it's hard to tell, Chris. Because what we know is that science is the best weapon we have against this virus. That if we use scientific principles of disease outbreaks and therapies that are proven, I believe firmly that we can beat this thing.

But distractions like drinking, you know, or using like Lysol or shining light inside of you or even hydroxychloroquine. It may work. We just don't have the scientific evidence.

I really hope and every day I hope that the president gets back to talking about science, gets back to talking about evidence. Because that's how we as Americans are going to defeat this virus.

CUOMO: Now, I got hit with the same stick that the president is doing tonight which baseless speculation. My speculation was this, I think that we're going to find out that this virus has been around a lot longer than just a couple of months. And sure enough, the scientists are starting to take us in that direction.

The antibody tests they've been in New York, the preliminary findings is like, one in five New Yorkers, 20 percent, have been exposed. What does that mean to you, what does it suggest in terms of a larger picture of what that could mean about how this resolve?

JHA: Yes. So, there are two points that I think are worth noting. One is I do think we have emerging evidence that this virus has been around a bit longer than we thought, we initially thought. That the first cases were in the Seattle area at the end of or mid to late January.

It's possible that there were cases in earlier than that, in earlier in January maybe even December in California and other places.

In terms of that antibody test that came out today, it says that, you know, we know we've been undertesting. Right? And I've been -- I've been assuming or I've been estimating that we only have been getting about 10 percent of people who are infected are we identifying.

[23:10:00]

And that's what the numbers seem to suggest. So, there are about 10 to 12 times as many people who've been infected as we've actually been able to diagnose.

And you know, the good news is those people may turn out to be immune. We don't know, and we really have to figure that out. But if they are immune, that's good. That means there are a lot of people out there with immunity who are going to be safe from the virus. But we don't know if antibodies equal immunity yet. That's something we still need to sort out.

CUOMO: Right. That is speculative. Because usually it's the case. But there's a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense about COVID-19 versus usually. You know, usually you don't have a flu that gives one group of people nose -- they're losing sense of smell and losing sense of taste but no fever and no respiratory.

And then somebody like me, you know, their lungs are swelling up and they've got a fever but they can smell. And then another person has just G.I. but no real fever and no respiratory thing. We're not used to seeing that either.

So, what should we not take from this science in terms of what it means?

JHA: yes. Well, so there's some people who are saying it looks like we're very close for herd immunity. We're not close to herd immunity. We still have a long way to go. We still have, even in New York City which has been hit hard so incredibly hard. Majority of people, 80 percent of people have not yet been exposed and are still vulnerable.

And of course, in the rest of the country a vast, vast majority are not. So, we're nowhere near of herd immunity. We still have most Americans susceptible. And then we got to be really be careful about the immunity part.

Because if the idea here is antibody equals immunity, if that turns out to be wrong, we're going to be in big trouble. So, I think we got to let the science work itself out. We will know in the upcoming weeks whether having antibodies is protective or not. And then once we do, then I think we can feel more confident that that's going to be the case or not.

CUOMO: Well, Lord willing, we get to a vaccine. And then hopefully it's one that people will take. And that's the best that we can do in a situation like this. Dr. Jha, thank you for making sense of the science for us, as always.

JHA: Thanks, Chris. And I'm glad that you're feeling better.

CUOMO: Thank you. I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm blessed. I'm doing better than I deserve. Thank you for the good word, doc.

All right. So, Georgia opening early. Texas also beginning to loosen some of its restrictions starting tomorrow. Very soon it may be ready to ramp up its own reopening. Does it worry the mayor of one of the state's biggest cities? Let's talk about to him about it. Austin, next.

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: So, tomorrow, Texans are scheduled to experience one of the first phases of reopening that will allow businesses to offer curb side pick-up and delivery.

Governor Greg Abbott plans a bigger announcement Monday, one that he says will, quote, "allow many different types of businesses to open up."

Let's get insight from Mayor Steve Adler of Austin, Texas. Good to have you on the show, sir. I hope your family is healthy and that you're doing well.

MAYOR STEVE ADLER (D-TX): We are, Chris. Thank you.

CUOMO: So, let me get like some different angles of context on this to get your take. The CDC their projections say Texas should be looking at opening up sometime in mid to late June. No sooner. Are you worried about taking any action that contradicts the CDC?

ADLER: Sure. We're absolutely concerned. We have lots more questions than we have -- we have answers. We don't know exactly what the governor is going to do. You know, he said that he is going to put public health first and he's going to be guided by science and the data. We'll hold him to that. That's what we want to see.

But as far as the plans he's hinted we just don't know, we don't know the timing. There's so many questions. Not only with respect to what he's going to do but what we know, what we can try and what works, what doesn't work.

At this point we just know that we need a lot more testing and we need to be able to -- to be able to learn from whatever it is that happens.

CUOMO: Do you feel the need to tell your constituents and tell the governor, wait, they tell you the middle of June. Don't do it too soon. We're a humungous state. The scale is real. The density is real especially in your city.

ADLER: Well, you know, we've been talking about that. We're going to continue to talk about it. We're meeting with business in a big meeting tomorrow where our council is going to be meeting next week here in the city.

The problem, Chris, is that we just don't know. We don't know what it is that has been able to get us to the place that we're at now. Austin, Texas is different from New York. We have been able to lower that spike. We haven't felt it.

But we don't know whether it was the masks and the social distancing. Maybe those don't have any impact and the only thing that worked is the fact that we have been isolating in our homes. We don't know the answer.

So, as we start rolling things out, we're doing this big mass social experiment without knowing what the answers are.

CUOMO: Just to be very clear, it's not a CDC model. It is modelling that the White House relies on. I know it's the same family. But I want to keep it straight factually. It's not the CDC projection that says June, it's the modelling the White House is looking at. But it takes us the same point, mayor. Excuse me on that.

ADLER: Sure.

CUOMO: So, my next question is this, do you agree with your lieutenant governor and his suggestion that like, basically, look, sometimes you got to die so that everybody else can have their life. And you know, he's ready for that kind of trade off. Why even make a suggestion like that? Do you really believe that that is the proposition?

[23:20:00]

Let me play something for the audience about what the lieutenant governor have said.

ADLER: All right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GOV. DAN PATRICK (R-TX): There are more important things than living. And that's saving this country for my children and my grandchildren. I'm saving this country for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, that comment does not get the kind of reaction from me that it got over on state news. The idea that, you know, there is something bigger than living. What does he mean? ADLER: You know, please, don't put me into position where -- I mean,

you're asking me to explain what the lieutenant governor said. I have no idea. A lot of people saw that. In fact, most of the country I think acted kind of in horror at that.

We're out trying to save as many lives as we can in what we're trying to do. That came out of left field. Although I will tell you that the lieutenant governor a weekend ago speaking to Republican supporters into the media said that the best thing that we did in Texas was to cancel south by southwest the first week in March.

He didn't mention that it happened with a Democratic mayor in Austin. But that's OK. But he recognized that pulling down that event has saved many lives. So, but I can't explain that. And he doubled down on that statement here a second time on Fox.

CUOMO: On Fox is the key. So, look, I wish you well. And we'll see what the governor says on Monday. It will be unusual to have any kind of statement at this time that is about what's going to happen in June. So, it suggests something may happen sooner as you have concerns about what it would mean from Austin that you want the country to know about.

Mr. Mayor Steve Adler, you have a platform here.

ADLER: Chris, I appreciate that. Please wish us well. We'll all going to be waiting to see what happens on Monday.

CUOMO: God bless. I hope you guys are smart and that you stay healthy. We'll be watching.

ADLER: Thank you. You and your family --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Now look what's the ultimate answer? Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate the good work.

What's the ultimate answer? The best will do is a vaccine. No time soon. All right? So, the best we can do right now is what the mayor was talking about. Whether it's masks, gloves, social distancing, or staying home.

But remember, what's the umbrella? Testing. Tracing. Treating. Isolating. We have to do that. It is the sine qua non. Without that, nothing. But even with that, it could be years for a full return to normal.

Now who says that? My next guest. Well, how do they know? They worked for the Obama administration on the response to Ebola. What did they earn there, and why two or three years for normal? Why? Let's test it, next.

[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: What was once seen as baseless speculation is now getting a basis in science. We now have suggestions from testing that this virus has been here longer than originally suspected. And that it is spread much further than testing has told us.

Each day, each new study the truth is becoming more apparent. But still the lion share is mystery when it comes to this virus. Also, it just shows how far we are behind in terms of testing and tracing.

So, let's bring in Jeremy Konyndyk. He used to run foreign disaster assistance for USAID. Jeremy, good to have you on Prime Time.

JEREMY KONYNDYK, FORMER DIRECTOR, USAID OFFICE OF FOREIGN DISASTER ASSISTANCE: Good to have you back on TV, Chris. Welcome back.

CUOMO: Thank you. Good to be here. Good to be seen. Good to be seen. So let me ask you. The president's disposition towards testing, we're good on testing, enough with the testing. A lot of people think testing isn't even the best thing. What do you make of that?

KONYNDYK: Well, look, I think the study that came -- that came out of New York today showing that within the city as many as one in five people may have, already had this virus. You know, that shows we're nowhere close to where we need to be on testing, because of course that's a dramatically higher figure than the official count.

It's about, you know, it suggests that the official testing count for the state is it off by about factor of 10. So, you know, we're not testing anywhere near where we need to be testing yet.

CUOMO: So, when the president says I disagree with Fauci. I think we're doing great on testing. Is there any defense for that that justifies it?

KONYNDYK: No, there's no, I mean, come on, there's no defense. Testing numbers have been flat for weeks now even as case counts have been going up and up and up. So, you know, if the case counts are going up and the testing volumes are not then we've got a problem.

CUOMO: And he'll say, well, if I do have to say that it's deficient, OK. But it's because of you, Konyndyk, and all the people who came before me. You were not ready for the pandemic. You didn't plan. The tests were a mess and it's all on you guys.

KONYNDYK: Yes. I mean, we've aside the fact that they have been in office for three years when this hit. They deconstructed many of the tools that we left them from the last administration.

In the last administration we were -- we were very, I think disturbed by the lack of global readiness we found when we had to battle Ebola. And so, we worked very hard in the last few years of the Obama administration to put a lot of additional things in place, to give them a literal play book for an event like this. That talked about a novel coronavirus as a tier one threat.

[23:29:58] They disregarded it. So, you know, we gave them as many tools as we could. Because, you know, we saw the importance of that for preventing future events like this. This has been anticipated for a long time, something like this. And, you know, we did what we could. Was it enough? Of course, it is never enough. But if some of that had been followed more scrupulously, I think we would be in a lot better place now than we are.

CUOMO: Now, the recovery, the reopening, and getting back to normal. People have a hankering for it by the summer. They are hoping that in the fall, this curve isn't that bad so that everybody stays in school and we stay in our jobs and there is no more hiding at home. You're saying get ready for a long road home, two or three years. Why would you say something as frightening as that?

KONYNDYK: Well, I think it's important to start recommending (ph) people to the reality of what we are up against. Now, two to three years does not mean two to three years that are going to be just like right now, but it is going to be two to three years where things are going to remain different in some important ways.

You know, we will not have lockdowns for two to three years, but we will probably have some manner of social distancing continuing for two to three years. And, you know, that's going to mean, I think, you know, things like large gatherings are probably still going to be challenging. International travel, discretionary international travel could remain challenging.

You know, some of these things are going to be curtailed for an ongoing basis until we get a vaccine widely available. That will probably take two to three years. You know, it's about a year to get ideally if everything works with the vaccine. It's about a year from when it started to when we get a candidate that works. So call that roughly next February.

But that's not enough. You need to produce it. And once it's produced at scale, you need to administer it at scale. It's not easy to produce billions of doses of vaccine, much less to administer them. So that is going to add, you know, up to another one to two years before we have enough people vaccinated that we can start to return to something that looks a lot more like normal than what we are going to see until then.

CUOMO: Sobering. All right, let me distract from that headline to the immediate. How big a difference does it make if the model says we should open a place in the middle of June and we open it in the middle of May instead?

KONYNDYK: Boy, it makes a big difference. But I would say we shouldn't be opening just based on what the model says. We should be opening based on what the evidence says. Models are only as good as the assumptions you built into them. The evidence of what we are seeing from actual case data is what we should be using. So does the case data show that we have been at a sustained low level for a long time?

It's not enough to say we are on a downward slope for two to three weeks. New York has already been on a downward slope for several weeks but the case counts are still very high. We saw in Italy, we saw in China that the downward slope lasted a really long time.

So it is not enough to be on a downslope. You need to have an absolute low level of cases to be ready to reopen. And really just about everywhere in the country, case counts are still higher than they were when the lockdowns and such started. So we need to get the cases down before we can really start taking those steps.

CUOMO: I mean, look, you know, I got a family and all that. I'm desperate to get them out of my house and back to some kind of normal as anybody. But when I look at my family, Jeremy, you know, and the virus is still working its way through, I have so many friends where it is going on in their homes, too, it's just hard to reconcile the reality with what people want. But as you said, let's see where the data takes us. Jeremy Konyndyk, thank you very much for the perspective. I hope you stay healthy.

KONYNDYK: Thank you. I'm glad you're back.

CUOMO: Thank you, brother. Look, man, this is stressful, right? I mean, the whole situation is stressful, the living situation, the anxiety if you're going to get this, if you do get it and have to deal with it. You know what? You are not alone. Nearly half of us say that we're having trouble coping. If you're a parent, that number is way higher.

Let's stop hiding from mental health like it's something you're not supposed to talk about. It is as real as the fever I had. The stress, the depression is as dangerous, is as real as the fever. What does it mean for patients? What does it mean for parents? What does it mean for kids? They're exhibiting signs, too, that we have to examine. Mental health matters. Let's talk about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. How many of these boxes do you check? How long am I going to be in here? What am I going to do about my job? When am I going to be able to get back to work? What am I going to do with these kids? How am I going to handle this home schooling? My partner, my spouse, they are sick. Now, one of the kids is sick. I think I'm sick. My finances -- how long can I stay like this? How many do you check? Nearly half of us are saying we feel worried.

[23:40:00]

CUOMO: We feel stress because of this virus. It doesn't even mean you have it, just the lifestyle, just the fear, and the anxiety. Mental health support groups are saying they are experiencing a huge increase in calls and requests for help. Let's talk about what it means.

Dr. Ken Duckworth is the chief medical officer of the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is good to have you on "Prime Time," doctor. In fact, I am embarrassed I haven't had you sooner. We should have been talking about this sooner. I'm guilty. I'm falling into the stigma of ignoring it.

KEN DUCKWORTH, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, NATIONAL ALLIANCE ON MENTAL ILLNESS: I think you have been busy. I'm glad you're well. I hope your family is well. But I do want to thank you for taking up the topic of mental health. Mental health is a piece of this epidemic and will have its own ways and its own intensity.

CUOMO: So you have the people who are dealing with the virus, OK? I have not spoken to anybody that has said, whether is the symptoms and the toll of the symptoms and the unknown and the duration or the virus itself, everybody says brain fog, problem with acuity, depression, you know, a sense of anxiety.

Those are as real as dealing with a fever and they can have as much of an impact on you physically. True or false?

DUCKWORTH: True. There is no health without mental health. The National Alliance on Mental Illness is here to support people who are contending with any aspect of the mental health challenges that come with this pandemic.

CUOMO: Second component. I don't have the virus, but I'm worried about getting it for days, weeks, stuck in my house, dealing with my kids, dealing with my crazy husband/wife/significant other, worried about my money, worried about when it ends. Is that just feelings? Is that something you're supposed to suck it up? How can it manifest itself over time?

DUCKWORTH: Well, Chris, it's important to recognize that many people will have some anxiety or some experience of worry. But many people will also struggle with the mental health vulnerability that is caused by this or is on top of whatever they were living with before. NAMI lets people know that one in five Americans had a mental health condition before this pandemic began and this is generating anxiety, panic disorder, and depression in many people.

So it's important to recognize it. You are not alone. There are groups all over the country, at NAMI, that are here to support you. The mental health field has actually pivoted in a couple of days to provide psychotherapy through your computer or through a flip phone. The mental health field is not a quick moving team for the most part. They pivoted in two days. And virtually -- all care is being delivered virtually now. The patients like it and the doctors like it.

CUOMO: How do I know whether or not my feelings are enough to justify reaching out?

DUCKWORTH: Well, first of all, you know, acknowledge your feelings. Being scared is normal. Being worried about your future and your finances or whether somebody you love is going to get this is part of the human experience. We typically think about functioning and safety as core metrics.

So, if you are able to get up and have a structure of a day, which you have to impose upon this disrupted life that we have but you're still experiencing something, be in touch with your friends. Stay connected to people. I like physical distancing, not social distancing. We need each other. We're social creatures.

If you're having trouble with functioning or trouble thinking about your safety, you need professional support. And getting an evaluation is pretty easy now given the fields movement toward Tell Health. If you have video-enable connection like we do now or even a telephone, you can get an assessment.

But if you want to troubleshoot your vulnerabilities, there are 600 NAMIs across the nation, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. They know what it's like to live with a mental health condition and they have your back.

CUOMO: Now, you get the last category, people who have a diagnosis, who need meds. We know that all the metrics are up. The stress calls are spiking. Healthcare workers are generating a lot of those calls. People can't get their meds because of supply chain issues. They can't get in to see their clinicians unless they are lucky to have video or teleconferencing.

So all the metrics are up and that means the need is up and that means people have to think about how to get help. Let's end like this, doctor. I want everybody to know that they can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

[23:45:00]

CUOMO: That it is always there. I'm going to put it up on the screen.

DUCKWORTH: It's always there.

CUOMO: 1800273 talk. 1800273 talk. That's 18002738255. Maybe you're going to forget it. I'm going to tweet it. It will be on my Twitter. Chris Cuomo. It will be there if you need it. Dr. Duckworth, thank you very much.

DUCKWORTH: Thank you so much, Chris, for taking this up and take good care.

CUOMO: All right. Be well, doctor. Thank you. All right --

DUCKWORTH: Thank you.

CUOMO: As he said, there is no health without mental health. Man, if you don't feel right and a lot of us don't -- yeah, you can just feel that way. Like he said, reach out and talk about it. Don't hide from your feelings. It never makes them better. Trust me.

Now, coronavirus germs, did you know that they can travel more than 25 feet from a sneeze? No, you don't need (INAUDIBLE) that far. That is according to MIT research in general. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to show us the science that spells out why we all need to think a lot more seriously about wearing mask in public. Even the no frills kind can make a difference. How? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: What do you think the leading cause of death is in Los Angeles County, California? COVID-19. That's according to the health director there. More than heart disease, COPD or any other disease that they track. We haven't heard that announced in any other part of the nation.

One of the biggest ways to protect yourself is by using a mask. It also raises some of the biggest questions. So, let's get some answers from chief doctor, Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEROME ADAMS, UNITED STATES SURGEON GENERAL: Now that we know about 25 to 50 percent of people are spreading asymptomatically, we suggest that people wear facial covering to prevent asymptomatic spread. You wear your mask to protect me. I wear my mask to protect you.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While the White House recommends we wear face mask in public, some states around the country have started making that mandatory.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): I signed an executive order which will require the wearing of masks or face coverings when inside any retail establishments.

GUPTA (voice-over): Many are left wondering which mask offers the best protection. Now, when we talk about face coverings, there are the surgical masks I wear in the hospital to protect patients from my own germs and avoid any splashes.

And then there are the N95 respirator masks that must be fit-tested in order to protect health care workers during procedures. It's the only one of these masks that prevents most very small particles from getting in when used properly. We need to keep those masks in their hands.

Then there are the disposable cloth masks which you can buy in a store and online. They aren't made for surgery or for hospitals but are also widely used.

(On camera): The CDC has recommended that we all wear cloth face masks like this one -- my daughter made this one -- when we go out in public and we can't physically distance from each other. Keep in mind, the reason is not so much to protect ourselves, but to protect others from us. It should come as no surprise that these medical-grade masks are more effective, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss the benefit of cloth masks.

Let me show you. Take a look at this experiment done by researchers at the National Institutes of Health. They use lasers to help show how far spit droplets travel through the air when we talk. Watch how far those green dots go when he speaks. Without the lasers, these droplets might be invisible to the naked eye. But now, with the cloth, we barely see anything.

LYDIA BOUROUIBA, PROFESSOR, MIT: Exhalations come out in the form of the gas cloud and the wearing of masks, therefore, could be even if they're not high grade, a way to contain the range of that cloud.

GUPTA (voice-over): Lydia Bourouiba is a professor at MIT who studies the physics behind how disease is spread through coughing, sneezing, and breathing.

BOUROUIBA: Sneezes which has the highest momentum can then help these drops reach distances of up to eight meters to 26 feet. Coughs are second in line in terms of their momentum. They can bring drops up to 16 to 19 feet. And exhalations are third in line and bring drops farther to the source at around six or seven feet.

GUPTA (voice-over): Keep in mind, you should primarily stay home and if you have symptoms, that's not debatable. But you can see now why wearing a mask in addition to physical distancing is so important. Your germs can travel far.

BOUROUIBA: You also want to make sure that the mask is also clean so it doesn't also become a source of secondary contamination.

GUPTA (voice-over): And you don't have to be a whiz with the sewing machine like my daughter. An old t-shirt or a bandana will do. Ultimately, it's about having some form of barrier with multiple layers.

BOUROUIBA: Potentially wearing these other masks is something that would be --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That easy.

BOUROUIBA: -- basically protecting others. And if everybody does it, there is a range reduction that would be beneficial for the overall population.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: You saw the green light thing, right? I got you, watching that spitting come out, didn't it? Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you as always.

[23:55:00]

CUOMO: Thank you all for watching. Stay tuned. The news continues here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)