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Cuomo Prime Time

FDA Approved COVID Home Test Kit; President Trump's Disinfectant Comment Confuses People; Mayor Hardie Davis, Jr. of Augusta, Georgia Was Interviewed About How's Day One of their Reopening of Businesses; Coronavirus Pandemic, White House Keeps Promising More Testing In Weeks Ahead; Schools Closed For Rest Of Academic Year In 43 States; The Pandemic Tolls On Addiction Battles; New York's New Salute To Heroes Of The Pandemic. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired April 24, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: If she is -- I mean, you must get it a lot of it from her because I mean, she's got to be a character too.

LESLIE JORDAN, ACTOR: Well, you know, she really isn't Hispanic. She was just so normal and she was just such a good mom, and when I was young, I thought she was a fairy princess because she's blonde and bashful. And people talk about fairy princesses. But my mother's very, you know, private. And so, people have said to me, you know, why don't you drag (ph) your mother out. Lord, no, she'd die.

COOPER: Leslie, I got to go because I'm cutting into Chris' show. And I know Chris is a huge fan of yours, too. But I wish you the best. I'll reach out to you on Instagram. Thank you so much. You're welcome back here any time.

JORDAN: Thank you so much for having me.

COOPER: All right. You should follow Leslie. It's awesome. News continues. I was mistaken of the time. Chris Cuomo is here. So, let's turn things over to him. Chris, hey.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: After that interview, I literally asked him to come and do the next two hours, Leslie -- I mean coop. That is just what we needed right now, by the way. Thank you for that gift. Hunker down, 1,700s Scottish, maybe from the Norris, hunker down meaning get down on your haunches.

COOPER: Good to know. Usually only used in hurricanes. But Leslie uses it, he says, hey, what you doing hunker downers.

CUOMO: He is funny. And I do see the similarities. And you guys sound --

COOPER: I should be lucky to look like Leslie Jordan.

CUOMO: You should cut his hair.

COOPER: I should do something. CUOMO: Have a great weekend.

COOPER: Chris, thank you.

CUOMO: You're doing more than enough. Anderson, God bless.

I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to Prime Time.

So instead of selling us on a well-thought-out plan to reopen so we can get on the page, what are federal officials doing today, warning us not to poison ourselves with household cleaners. Why? Because of what Trump said and meant.

Heaven forbid this president just take responsibility, just take it back. Trump floated it seriously, not sarcastically, and now he's trying to spin it. It's the same thing every time. Double down on dumb.

Instead of the forces of the fringe, now we got to hear them saying, he was right about the light, and if he were wrong, if he were wrong to suggest taking disinfectant, well, he was just being sarcastic.

Look, we all heard it. This is no time for this kind of noise. We wonder why states are all over the place. Why reopening is a mess. Georgia, Oklahoma, opening up now. Cases still out of control. Why? Leadership is consistency and accountability. If you don't have it, you get what you're seeing right now.

Every night I will remind only one way forward. Together, as ever, as one. That means we've got to be straight and we've got to care enough about each other to do the right thing for everyone. Let's get after it.

Why does it matter? We should be worried about each other and your public health. I agree. But look at the Google trends. A massive spike in searches of terms like disinfectant and injection. I wonder why.

Just happens to come after the president trial ballooned exactly that as a possible coronavirus cure. People who are actually looking this up. Come on, my brothers and sisters. And yet, I can't really put it on you. Why wouldn't you take a look?

The president told you seriously that this is something that they may look at. Lysol had to come out and issue warnings that under no circumstances should its disinfectants be put inside the human body.

His protectors in righty media are saying to me it was wrong of you, Cuomo, to make that joke that Trump is saying take two shots of Windex, swallow a light bulb and call me in the morning. Really? But you're going to defend what he said, right? Because everything is OK if he says it, right? And you wonder why things are so wrong.

This is not state TV. All right? We're going to give it to you straight here because it matters too much. This was Trump's response today, the most toxic part of the occasion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you, just to see what would happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not encouraging Americans to inject --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Of course, no. Of course, that -- interior wise it's -- said sarcastically. It was put in the form of a question to a group of extraordinarily hostile people. Namely the fake news media.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were looking at Dr. Birx.

TRUMP: I was looking at Bill. I was looking at the doctor. I was looking at some of the reporters. I don't know if you were there. Were you there? I don't think you were there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was there and I watched you asked her.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: No, not you. Not you. Not you. You were there. If you were there, I'd never forget. You were --

(CROSSTALK)

[22:05:06]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wasn't there yesterday.

TRUMP: You were not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

TRUMP: Yes, I didn't think you were there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: We were all there. We watched it on tape. This is not a mystery. This is not an open question. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way where we can do something like that by injection inside or -- or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets on the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: See anybody laughing? You see people behind him like this -- no? Not one. Why? Because he wasn't joking around. He was musing. He was doing what he was doing, which is him making stuff up, and then he goes on to say today, no, I was talking about the disinfectant on the hands.

And you know, did you know that if you rub the disinfectant on the hands, it can kill coronavirus, it can kill things, so, you know, that's what I was talking about. And it was like I was waiting for him to say, you know, because you can put it on. And, you know, and it's kind of clear, so maybe we call it something like pure, you know. But it's a gel.

So, you know, my idea is we put stuff on our hands that can kill germs and call it Purell. That's just something I'm spitballing coming up with it.

I mean, come on. Just own what you said. That's leadership. It was a stupid thing. Nobody really cares except the people who are Googling it because you won't own that you were wrong, OK? And that's the problem here.

Kaitlan Collins was there. She heard it in person. But, by the way, that's not the standard. All you need to do is hear the sound. There is no benefit of context that he's not getting. And tonight, another clue, the president wouldn't take questions about it. Kaitlan Collins joins us now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Chris. The president didn't take any questions tonight. That is, of course, a rarity for the president at these coronavirus briefings.

Where often, you know, sometimes they go for one hour, potentially two and the president takes lots of questions from reporters, but the last we heard from him today, you know, where he was taking questions was in the Oval Office when he was trying to explain away that remark, saying he was simply being sarcastic.

Though, of course, Chris, many people have noted that's really not what we heard from other people at the White House today, including when earlier they said actually the media had just been taking them out of context.

And then Dr. Deborah Birx who was in that briefing today explained it in an interview on Fox News by saying the president was just digesting information in real time.

Of course, that came after that presentation you saw from the top DHS official who, when the president was suggesting that doctors should look into those -- his musings about potentially whether or not light and disinfectants could be used inside the body as a cure for coronavirus, the doctor -- excuse me, the DHS official even said, no, that's not really something that they could do, but they could try to put it in the hands of people that do.

And of course, Chris, we've seen the fallout from this where the CDC had to issue a tweet saying please do not use household products as they are not supposed to be used. Follow the instructions on the label.

And even the surgeon general putting out a tweet this morning saying you need to make sure you are consulting with your doctor before you pursue any kind of treatments when it comes to coronavirus.

CUOMO: Before swallowing Clorox, please consult your doctor. You'll certainly need them after. Kaitlan Collins, bless you for keeping it straight in situations like this. I wish you a very good weekend.

Let's bring in Dr. William Schaffner, infectious disease expert, CDC adviser. Always a pleasure, doc. Welcome back to Prime Time.

WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Good to be with you, Chris.

CUOMO: So, doc, people are googling this because they take him seriously. Nobody was laughing behind him when he said it. You know who's telling the truth? Dr. Birx. He was processing information in real time. He heard them talking about using U.V. light and other ways of disrupting the virus on surfaces. Finding disinfectants that can kill this virus so it doesn't live as long as a pathogen on all of these different surfaces.

And he wanted to one-up it. Now people will say, who care? Nobody cares about this. Why do you care?

SCHAFFNER: Well, I care a great deal. That disinfectant remark really gave me a chill when I heard it because there might well be some people out there who took it seriously. I mean, that's toxic. We'll be generating calls to poison control centers because of that. That can make you really, really sick.

Disinfectants are for in adamant surfaces, not for the interior of the body. And beyond that, my e-mail inbox gets all kinds of suggestions from well-intentioned people about all kinds of -- all kinds of interesting ideas they have for treatments.

[22:10:05]

None of those have been studied carefully. So, we need to be very circumspect about what it is that we do in order to try to prevent these infections as well as treat them. We need to be conservative and rest on the science. And in the meantime, as you know, social distancing, hand washing, use those masks.

CUOMO: Right. And, look, why are people a little mixed up about this? Well, part of it is they're sick of it, right? That's -- fatigue is natural in a situation like this and to be expected.

But when the President of the United States is saying, you know, I don't know about testing, you know? Sometimes it works. Sometimes it's not the right way. Some governors say they have a better way. No governor says that, by the way.

And then he says you should liberate your states. You know, people are protesting. I get it. This is hard. People want to get back to work. That's the messaging. And it creates a mess, does it not?

SCHAFFNER: Well, surely. Now, everybody wants to return to a semblance of normal, but we also want to do it safely. So, the way to do that is gradually, in a phased fashion, and here's where leadership really is important. You have to tell people exactly what they ought to do and ought not to do.

For example, if you're opening things up now, still wear your masks. Everybody who works in businesses that are opening up should wear a mask. Businesses shouldn't let anybody in unless they're wearing masks. We need to normalize this in the near-term future because coronavirus, it's going to be with us for quite a while.

CUOMO: Right. And it's also the only thing we can do right now. You know, all these other things are maybes. The -- for instance, that's what I was just reading while you were talking.

The FDA is now approving the first at-home test kit. But you're not going to get it tomorrow. There are a couple of questions about its accuracy, but there are questions, there are always questions about accuracy with tests.

But that's going to be a while, right? And isn't the reality of testing that that's going be a while before we're really up to scale, before we really know the content of this country in terms of viral exposure.

SCHAFFNER: For sure. We've all said we want to test more. We're making baby steps in that direction. In Tennessee, I can say that it's fortunate now that if you want to get a test, you can go to an assessment center and get the test. There's no costs involved.

So that's really very important. That's a step ahead. But still we're not testing nearly as many people as we were like to test. And, of course, that's a fundamental aspect of moving forward as we gradually in a systematic fashion carefully open things up to the new normal, not the old normal.

CUOMO: Let's end where we began. The reason it matters, what the president says, is it has sway. Now, look, taking disinfect -- I can't believe that many people were Googling it. I have to say I'm a little surprised by that.

But the hydroxychloroquine thing, that's how we got in that mess. He went out there. He pushed it. People started buying it up all over the place. Made it hashed for people with lupus and, you know, who needed it to buy prescriptions.

Now, you got Fauci and his team put out guidance on protocols on how to treat COVID. They were neutral on hydroxychloroquine. They didn't suggest it. They did not suggest it. The FDA is how issuing warnings on hydroxychloroquine. Are you in favor in the move -- of the move and is it too late?

SCHAFFNER: It's -- it's not too late, and the important thing is that there are trials underway examining hydroxychloroquine. And I hope that patients around the country are volunteering to be part of that trial because we need these answers so that we can treat patients coherently. Evidence-based medicine is the best way to go. We don't want to harm

patients. We want to do well by our patients. We want to improve them. But only when we have the evidence can we do that with confidence.

CUOMO: And, doctor, the reason I love having you on is the same point that we're trying to make about the president. You say what you know and you say what you don't know.

Hydroxychloroquine may help people. It may have helped people already. We don't know. So, you're not going to suggest it to people. What you suggest is that we figure it out. That's the kind of leadership that gets us answers. Not more trouble.

Dr. Schaffner, I hope you get to have some rest this weekend. Thank you for helping me and the audience.

SCHAFFNER: My pleasure, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Look, also, you have to look at the consistency of message as part of the reason for the confusion and reopening.

Georgia opened for business again. Despite warnings, even from the president, by the way. You got to give him his due. When he says something that's right, give it to him.

[22:15:04]

Be nice if he said it sooner. Be nice if it wasn't contradictory to what he had said earlier about the governor of Georgia, but still, what's it like night one in Georgia? People are flocking to salons. Are they flocking to bowling alleys in the city of Augusta? What does the city's mayor think? Let's get the reality of the reopening, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. I hope we can stay clear about what the real question is about what comes next. Reopening isn't about if. Of course, we have to do it. It's not even about when. It's about how. How do we get to where we want to be and keep ourselves and our families safe?

Tom Foreman is showing us the steps that researchers believe are the key.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYNN SHERROD, CAFE OWNER: Good morning, guys. Welcome to little black cafe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At his tiny restaurant in the Tennessee hills, Lynn Sherrod's (ph) Facebook postings are cheerful. His reality is not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHERROD: We've lost probably 90 percent of our business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: So, when he heard his state will be lifting many restrictions meant to contain the virus, he was pleased, sort of.

[22:20:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERROD: We all need the income and we want the economy back, but at the same time, we want to do it in a safe and healthy way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: As calls grow to reopen America, that's the puzzle many big research names are tackling, how do you unlock the closed economy safely? And certain keys are showing up in almost every proposal. First, testing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Ultimately, we're doing more testing, I think, than probably any of the governors even want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: Despite that false claim, the National Governors Association says in its new recovery road map, testing capacity remains inadequate, giving no clear picture of where the virus is or how it is spreading.

And most proposals insist testing must be vastly expanded. Harvard says it should be millions of people per day. Duke, the ultimate goal should be that all patients with COVID-19 symptoms seeking out patient or hospital care receive a reliable diagnostic test.

Only that can confirm a 14-day decline in infections, which even the White House says should proceed re-openings.

Second, tracking. Several states are launching contact tracing efforts, meaning identifying infected people and anyone they had recent contact with asking them to self-quarantine. Doing that nationwide could require hiring as many as 300,000 people.

But on Boston's NBC 10, one of the leaders of the effort to add contact tracers there explains how it can work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems big until you kind of break it down and realize that spread isn't going like, you know, scatter shot. It's going through social networks.

(END VIDEO CLIP) FOREMAN: Third, rapid response. Researchers say hospitals must be on solid footing, protective gear, ventilators and more replenished so the medical community can respond quickly and isolate new outbreaks.

Alison Hog (ph) believes it's irresponsible of her state, Georgia, to say she can reopen her beauty salon without such measures.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I'm really, I am really angry about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: And fourth, continued restrictions. Every credible plan for reopening the nation still calls for degrees of social distancing, limits on travel and only a gradual resumption of business so any emerging problems can be spotted and a shutdown instantly declared again.

Yes. All of this will require a lot of money. It will require discipline and it will require patience. But these experts say done properly we can slowly and safely reopen the whole economy.

And the worry about places like Georgia jumping out front without all these protocols is that you might trigger a giant backslide, which pulls the economy and hope and trust and everything back, and we all pay for all of this much longer. Chris?

CUOMO: Tom, thank you very much. We actually saw something like that in Hong Kong. They tried to get back too soon. Came with major implications. But that now leaves us with Georgia. Tom, thank you. Bless you. Have a great weekend.

The Georgia proposition has now opened the world to the opportunity for the coveted HTM, the haircut, tattoo, massage trio. Is this a good thing for anybody? Let's go to the mayor of Augusta, Georgia. Hardie Davis. Welcome to Prime Time, Mr. Mayor.

MAYOR HARDIE DAVIS, JR. (D-GA): Chris, excited to be here with you, and, again, let's talk about it.

CUOMO: What is it looking like there now that people have the opportunity?

DAVIS: Well, you know, today was our first day, and I took a drive around downtown and across the city. People are very cautious. They're taking a very tempered approach in terms of coming out into the community.

I saw folks out walking, social distancing, continuing to do that. I popped my head into a barber shop and there was only one barber who was in the shop and he was taking customers by appointment.

But I think the general consensus is that people are still very concerned. We know that now the governor said we're going to take a phased approach in terms of opening certain businesses. We're going to comply with that and work with that.

Now is not the time to remain at a place of surprise or shock. We've got to govern at this point. This is an opportunity for us now to lead. And what it's done for us in Augusta is just caused us to have to move very quickly in terms of how we mobilize with our reopening plan.

CUOMO: And, look, you don't really have much choice, Mr. Mayor, right? The state -- the governor was very clear that the local authorities have no ability to not execute the order as written.

So, your hands were tied and you weren't consulted, and the problem with that is you now -- you are going to get saddled -- you've been very outspoken about this and your concerns.

But you're going to get saddled with the reality now, and underlying the governor's move is his statement that the businesses are able to open because new cases and hospital visits have lowered enough.

[22:25:06]

They have not lowered at all, according to the CDC and the projections. Not only do you not meet the CDC guidelines, but cases are still rising.

DAVIS: Yes, I think you're absolutely correct, Chris. Our initial plan was to follow the CDC's guidelines that called for 14 straight days of a decline in terms of confirmed cases. We still have yet to see that in Georgia.

Not only have we not seen that decline, but, in fact, today we find ourselves at a place of almost 22,500 confirmed cases and almost 900 deaths.

When you look at the fact that we understand that you've got to have the three t's, testing, contact tracing and treatment, we're not at a place where we can do that in sufficient enough numbers. Whether that's across the state of Georgia, and without question, in Augusta.

One of the things that I can, again, give the governor great credit for is that he's identified Augusta University and the city of Augusta as the state's primary testing facility. They are working on a rapid response ability to be able to provide testing across the State of Georgia.

I'm very hopeful that that's going to be successful. Not only is that going to take place, but we need to make sure that working in partnership with the Georgia Department of Health we can get folks on the ground to do contact tracing, but, again, those things are not possible at this point in sufficient enough numbers.

CUOMO: Well, that's -- look, that's the catch-22.

DAVIS: Yes.

CUOMO: I mean, there's no question the university's going to be really busy, and the problem is you got restaurants and movies opening on Monday, and you're not going to know about what effect this had on cases for weeks.

So, by the time you find out, people are going to be out there, they're going to get more confidence, and it's hard to put all of it on the citizens to do it the right way. That's what the leadership's supposed to be about.

But Mayor Hardie Davis, you've been clear about your concerns and we are here to be an echo of your concerns as you go forward. I wish you well. God bless.

DAVIS: Thanks, Chris. I appreciate it.

CUOMO: All right. Logical. Cases are going to go up. Why? Because we're going to be closer together. We know that. Certainly, going to happen in Georgia. Because cases are going up already. Oklahoma as well.

Now, you know what the question really becomes, how much of that are you OK with? That will be the major measure of acceptance of moving forward. How many cases, how much death are you OK with? Let's talk to a former top health official on how this works out. Next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Everybody wants to ease up on restrictions. They just want to do it safely, and it's going to remain almost purely aspirational unless you get what the mayor just called the three t's down to Augusta, Georgia. You got to test. You got to be able to trace when you get people who are positive and you got to be able to treat the cases that come into the hospitals. We heard this from the vice president today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to continue to increase testing dramatically in the weeks ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, that should sound familiar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: We'll continue to build out that structure going forward for the weeks ahead, in the weeks ahead.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the next few weeks.

PENCE: Days ahead, testing is ramping up.

TRUMP: I think we'll be t talking about it in the not too distant future. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, this is where you got to strip out the politics and look at the practicality. Are we increasing testing? Yes. But have we gotten where we need to be? Not even close. We've only tested about 5 million people in a country of, what, 300-plus million to be sure, right? On the low side. You know, it's like saying, hey, we were at a 42, now we're at a 55, man. We're doing good. Passing is 65. We're still failing. Period.

Promises made, promises kept. Come on. Those are words. It's about the quality and the action and the practicality of the policy. Let's bring in someone who knows that well from his time as acting administrator in the centers for Medicare and Medicaid, Mr. Andy Slavitt. Good to have you, sir.

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING HEAD OF THE HEALTH CARE FOR THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, HOST, IN THE BUBBLE: Hey, Chris. How are you?

CUOMO: One of the best opportunities I can afford on this show. Tell me I'm wrong. Yes, we're ramping up testing. Yes, they're at 150,000 a day. But scale, brother, scale is not incremental if you need to hit a certain benchmark for it to be effective, and we're nowhere near it. So is progress enough for a pat on the back?

SLAVITT: Look, I think that what the president would be smarter to do is to hit a number that he can stick to or beat. I think that's not in his nature, but if he said, look, by the end of June we're going to have 3 million tests -- and I know it's not enough, but by July we're going to have 4 and then, and you know, people will understand -- they may not like it, but to continue to say that everybody has all the tests that they need when everyone knows it's not their reality, it erodes trust.

And so what he needs to do now is build trust. Because the reality on the ground isn't changing. Your mayors from Augusta to New York City to all over the country, Democrat or Republican, they don't want people in their towns to die. And so they're not going to just take the vacant words that are coming out of the White House press conference.

CUOMO: The catch is, it would be fine to hit numbers to show promises made, promises kept or whatever, accountability. If it were just a solo criterion. But it isn't. It's testing as a co-efficient of whether or not you're ready to reopen. And if you can't hit the three t's, you know, if you don't have an ability to let me know with some reasonable degree, hey, who's going to be in this restaurant with me?

[22:35:09]

How safe am I here on the way in and the way out with the valet and everything else or whatever the situation is, I'm not going to go. So it's not just hitting a mark, is it Andy? I mean, they've got to get to a point of saturation where people believe there's real protection.

SLAVITT: That's right. And I think the reason they're not doing that is because they're so far away from the number that they'd rather see if they can have the governors take the blame and say that it's a responsibility of the governors to get to that level of testing. And the truth is --

CUOMO: Yes.

SLAVITT: -- it's going to take both the governors and the White House to work together to expand testing and the private sector, and including the FDA. So, there's kind of ability that it has to go everywhere.

CUOMO: Well, look, I'm told they had a good call today, the governors with the people, you know, on the task force about getting on the same page and doing it. Look, we know what the tension is here. We say it's about public policy and health, but it isn't, right? I mean, the problem with testing is it gets in the way of reopening. You can't test enough people to make it compelling to push for reopening right now, but that's what he wants.

So he wants to get away from the testing, so he wants to diminish the value of testing and to the extent that it is valuable, I'm going to put it on you. And that's where we are right now and we seem a little stuck. How do we break out of this and get to a place where reopening isn't reckless?

SLAVITT: You know, with a little bit of patience. I mean, look, we all -- we wish it weren't so. We wish we could open. We wish we could send our kids to summer camp. We wish we could go back to work. We'd all like to go back to our restaurants. We'd like to enjoy the sports that we enjoy in the summer. And I think, you know, there is not a person in the country that doesn't want that.

But wishing won't make it so. We have to accept the situation we're in and work our way through it. You know, 18 months isn't forever. We're going to -- going to have to, you know, get through this period. It's a hard period. And the government is going to need to support people through it. Understanding people are anxious. I think its fine to relax some of the restrictions where people have gone too far or the outbreak hasn't (inaudible). Those are fine things, but if you do those things, if you don't have the tools in place that instantly reduce, that's what I think you are going to get into trouble as you heard from the mayor of Augusta.

CUOMO: Now, look, you know what will become a really interesting factor. It's about to go away for a few months, but then it's going to come back. I'm not talking about the bump in the fall, I'm talking about school. Because they're not going to play around with kids and people in those situations because you can pop. You got to foster the contagion fast that way. And that's about to go away because soon we're going to be on summer break.

But you can't open the economy if you can't open schools, and that is going to be a real catch point for us, and we'll see how it plays out and we'll be doing it in real time with you. Andy Slavitt, have a great weekend and thanks for helping out my audience.

SLAVITT: All right. Thanks.

CUOMO: All right. Now, I hope you know this. OK? There was absolutely a mental health crisis in America before this pandemic. Depression is one of the most diagnosed situations we have medically, OK? Well, we're also a nation where so many of us are battling addiction or know someone who is, right? I mean, if it's not someone who is really close to you, I mean, are you really more than two degrees from somebody who struggles? So what is this pandemic doing to people's management of their own illness, the ability to get treatment? Dr. Duckworth is back tonight. He understands the situation and he's going to tell us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

CUOMO: Every time I think of the reality, I get anxious. We're home. We're scared. We're isolated. We're alone. We lose our normal network. We can't get to other people. Alcohol is flying off the shelves. I mean, you know, was it an obvious recipe for it? How do you cope with having real problems and real trials when you can't get to treatment, you can't get to your doctor, maybe you can't even get your medications, either because of convenience or because of supply chain.

Health experts fear a rise in addiction. A rise in problems. They know that alcohol is flying off the shelves. They're getting huge spikes in distress calls. Police departments around the country. Overdose calls are up year over year. People who are already struggling with addiction before the pandemic are worried about relapse. Treatment centers are having trouble being staffed. They're having trouble with beds. They can't get their PPE.

This is a real, real problem and nobody's talking about it. Let's welcome back Dr. Ken Duckworth. He wants to break the silence. The chief medical officer for the National Alliance of Mental Illness. National Alliance on Mental Illness. Also known as NAMI. Doc, I told you we'd do it again tonight.

DR. KEN DUCKWORTH, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, NATIONAL ALLIANCE OF MENTAL ILLNESS: Wonderful to see you again, Chris. Thank you for having me.

CUOMO: Oh, please. You're a blessing. I can't ignore this. This is a recipe for disaster for people who are not well. If you can keep yourself from using now, you have some great, strong resolve and a chance of leaving the sober life for a while. Tell us why.

DUCKWORTH: Or if you're part of a community that is supporting you. I think it's really important that this is a moment -- we're home. We have time. Think about this condition, addiction, not as a moral failing, but as a chronic biological vulnerability that has treatment. And I do want to say that if can participate in a community of recovery and get treatment virtually.

[22:45:09]

A lot of treatments are being given virtually, Chris. I want to emphasize you can get suboxone, which is a medication assistance treatment opiate use disorder. This treatment saved lives and has been endorsed by multiple surgeon generals. That can be prescribed now through tele-video visits, which was unheard of a month ago. So, while the story is difficult, we had a crisis before this began. We had 70,000 opiate overdose deaths in 2017 and our lifespan in America has been going down three of the last four years, and that's because of suicide and addiction.

So we have some work to do as a society. And as we're on this giant pause, thinking about how we relate to addiction, how we love people into care, how we forgive ourselves for our vulnerabilities and work this problem. It's a hard problem and these stresses are adding to it, Chris.

CUOMO: So let's talk solutions. Two different phases. One is, if you have somebody in your life who is struggling, what do you do, what can you do, what are the tools and what should you do for that person?

DUCKWORTH: Yes, well, it's a very individual situation, and if it's a mental health vulnerability, there is a NAMI organization near you. We have 600 across the country, where you can problem solve. I like to think of what I think of and what the person thinks of as two Venn diagrams and I stick with the overlap. What is the area that is troubling them that I also see? They may not see something that I observe. They might not want to hear about it.

But the other pieces of what they see are true for their experience. So if they're having trouble sleeping or they're functioning poorly at work or they can't organize their thinking, those are problems that you can both agree upon. These are the principles of so-called motivational interviewing. Find what the person cares about. Get alongside of them like you're on a bus stop with them looking out at the world together. See if you can get to yes on how to be engage and help them. It's not easy.

CUOMO: Yes. And you also reminded people last night, and it's important iterating tonight that we are isolated but we are not alone. You can reach out. You can Facetime. You can chat. There's a gazillion apps. Zoom, everybody is using now. Reach out, say hello. Watch TV together, you know, on the phone, connect with them so that people aren't stuck with their own heads in their own thoughts, because that can be a spiral as well.

And then you have the person who is sick. And by the way, I -- you're talking about your Venn diagrams, I see tremendous overlap between mental illness and addiction. I consider addiction a mental illness. I know that's a little controversial. I think that's about stigma, and I think eventually it will go away. It's not controversial in your community. I'm saying, you know, in the non-treatment community, it is. What should those people know is available to them and what to do if they start feeling the obvious stressors?

DUCKWORTH: Well, they are co-travelers. Mental health vulnerabilities and addiction are co-travelers. Depression and alcohol, common co- travelers. These things exist together. People don't usually read the textbook and just have one problem. So, I think the question is, what has worked for you in the past? If A.A. has worked for you in the past, A.A. has a remarkable online community, so too smart recovery, so too N.A. If methadone worked for you and you can't go to the methadone clinic because of social distancing, many states you can get it through a pharmacy now.

Just go once a month and you're able to get methadone. These are creative interventions that have been public policy successes. So it really depends on what has worked for you in the past and how do you adapt to these difficult circumstances that we're under? But you're going to stress people. And I do worry about our first responders and health care workers in terms of the trauma they're exposed to. Because that might have a longer tail than the viral curves that we see. The mental health tail is going to be longer, I believe.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And it's tougher to treat. It doesn't go away the same way. It doesn't get dismissed like a fever. And we already know that there's been over a 100 percent strike -- 100 percent spike in distress calls and a lot of them are health care workers.

DUCKWORTH: That's right.

CUOMO: And it makes sense. Dr. Ken Duckworth, thank you for breaking the silence and talking about what should not --

DUCKWORTH: Good work, Chris.

CUOMO: Listen, this -- this is the job. And it is a privilege to do so. Be well. Stay well.

DUCKWORTH: Thank you. You too, sir.

[22:50:02]

CUOMO: Just a quick note, I know it is hard for people out there right now. I hear from you all the time on my radio show, social media. There are people that care about you. They're in your life. You reach out. You want to send us messages? Do it. To the extent that we can help, we're here. We are all in this together. Just because your home, it does not mean you have to be alone. OK? Healthcare workers, absolutely helping us get through this. They deserve all the praise we can heap on them. New Yorkers have found a new way to spread the love for them and so many others. You want to see it? Next.

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[22:55:00]

CUOMO: All right. We got to have heart, right? How about literally. Check out this lawn love from Bryant Park in New York City. Right in the Times Square. Landscapers mowed this giant heart. In to the grass. Dedicated to all the healthcare heroes, first responders, essential workers and we know they are the difference in terms of saving our nation right now. With the stocking shelves and keeping people breathing.

These people are up against it, man. They are working crazy hours and against terrible odds. The park itself is closed until at least early May. But this is another reminder that we've got to be in it together. You've got to reach out and let people know you care. And New York's heart will always be open.

Now ahead, we heard very little today from the president. At the task force briefing after yesterday's debacle. Oh, I'm sorry, I mean the sarcasm. And I am being sarcastic. Is there a concerted effort now within the White House to get him to stop talking so much? What do you think of that? Next.

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