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President Trump Snub Reporters' Questions; Doctors Feel the Toll of this Pandemic; Navajo Nation One of Hardest Hit by COVID; Native Americans are Disproportionately Impacted by Coronavirus; The Forgotten Lessons of the 1918 Flu Pandemic; Taking Care and Helping Veterans Stay Connected in a Time of Isolation. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired April 24, 2020 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: How about a nice second hour of Prime Time on a Friday night. I'll be here anyway.

I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome back.

This president tells us don't believe what comes out of my face. And then he won't stick around to explain himself. That's not sarcasm. That's the cold, hard truth.

Kyung Lah shows us right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much, everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The headline out of the White House briefing. Not what was said but what wasn't.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: The president left without taking any questions. Unlike all the previous marathon events. A source tells CNN Trump is upset over the flak he's taking for his strange and dangerous musings yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And then I said supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that? By injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: Then today.

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TRUMP: No, I was asking a question sarcastically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: President Trump, again, trying to rewrite history the whole world saw on television. A bizarre spectacle as the U.S. death toll crosses 50,000 lives lost. And states unevenly start to open on their own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they come in, we will do temperature checks. They will be required to have a mask and glove.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: In Georgia, now allowed to operate are hair salons, gyms and bowling alleys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not trying to hurt anybody. If you leave, we just want to give a bit of --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: Defying public health warnings. Georgia and Oklahoma allowed doors to open at some businesses although many chose to stay closed. In Texas, curbside retail is open.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I walk out to their trunk, put them in there and go in the front seat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: The state pushed to restart the economy. Happening from the south, the Midwest to Alaska. A real-time experiment of the virus versus state policy. In South Carolina, department stores are now open with some restrictions. Wisconsin, golf courses. And some retail open curbside.

Alaska, restaurants allowed to open at a quarter of capacity. Into the weekend and next week more states open up. Tennessee will be allowing restaurants to open at half capacity on Monday, saying, it's time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): It must be steady and methodical. And empower opening in a way that doesn't jeopardize all of the strides that we've made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: But other local leaders say that's exactly what governors are doing by opening now.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a premature and reckless decision on behalf of the governor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: New York's governor warns the country must learn from our very recent history as testing continues to be inadequate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): What is the lesson? An outbreak anywhere is an outbreak everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: That's why Michigan's governor facing small but vocal right-wing protests to reopen is extending the stay-at-home order for her state until May 15.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): We know that if we do it too fast a second wave is likely and would be even more devastating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.

CUOMO: All right. Our thanks to Kyung.

Listen, the president can lie to you and say he was being sarcastic. But leadership is about ownership. All right? And the impact of his words are evident. The mayor of Los Angeles or Las Vegas, OK, points to their desert heat as if it will protect sin city.

You see, our leaders can't be in the business of selling stupid. OK? I'm not sure why the heat in Vegas would do what heat in Arizona or Florida, or Louisiana certainly hasn't. You see, you can't combat stupid if you get caught up saying stupid things. And that's why the remedy for stupid is science. Knowledge. All right?

So, let's deal on that with the doctor of infectious disease, Larry Brilliant. Boy, it's got to be tough to live up to that name. Welcome back to Prime Time.

LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALSYT: Hello, Chris. You've got a name to live up to as well.

CUOMO: Fair point. Fair point. Well done. Well done. It doesn't sound or look anywhere near as good as yours.

So, messaging. OK? You're in -- you're in the business of science. But messaging matters when it comes to what is true and what is not. Because people are always skeptical. Especially now especially when it's come out of politics.

[23:05:06]

Do you fear the effect of whether it's the mayor in Vegas, saying well, the heat makes a difference out here? Or the president not owning the absurdity that came out of his mouth about the disinfectants. Or about hydro -- you know, about hydroxychloroquine. Or about how testing is not good. Or people should liberate their states against these unfair orders. What's the net effect?

BRILLIANT: It's very difficult. You know, I looked up the use of bleach in medicine on my favorite medical search engine called Google. And all I could find a nurse named Kimberly Fowler who was a serial killer, who, 12 years ago used bleach and killed five of her patients by injecting it intravenously.

She went to jail. I think she is still in jail. It's understandable to make a word, though. It's difficult when you're in the spotlight. We all know that. But he -- anybody should quickly correct it. People hear this and they don't know, they just don't know what to think. It just creates such confusion. I wish that people would correct mistakes. God, I make lots of mistakes but I try to correct them.

CUOMO: Never one. We have never had an experience where this president took ownership for something that he said that was fallacious, misleading, untrue, or absurd. And instead, he gets his friends on the fringe right to say, you know, he was right about U.V. light. There are people -- there's a product out there. And that's what he was referring to.

And, you know, the disinfectant thing, you know, he's what he actually said. If you look at it really closely, and he said he was being sarcastic. I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt, it's really unfair. Now, not owning it is what's fair. And then you get into the implications of it.

So, hydro -- hydroxychloroquine, OK, it may help people. You have anecdotal evidence. We don't have the science-based evidence. The president was way out in front of it. Now, you got the FDA putting out a strong warning. Why and what is the state of play with that drug?

BRILLIANT: You know, I have personal experience with it. I lived in India for 10 years and I had malaria at least four times and twice I was treated with chloroquine. I think once with hydroxychloroquine

It's a brutal disease. But malaria is a, that's a brutal medicine. Malaria is a brutal disease. You know, the malaria that I had was less troublesome than the chloroquine. But I have to say that hydroxychloroquine saves a lot of lives with malaria.

But it doesn't work with COVID. And the idea of promoting it over and over again has caused the drugstores to dry up. They don't have hydroxychloroquine in store. And people with lupus and other diseases who really need it and for which it is the proper prescription, can't get it now.

So, once again, I think that we have to be careful what we say.

CUOMO: And look, let's lead with the science. I mean, I'm all for any drug that wounds up making this better. If I didn't have to suffer through what I did I would have taken anything. In fact, I did. You know what I mean? Anything that was offered to me I took.

And you know, and I know, look, I know people are going to come after me after this segment and say, you know, the Mayo Clinic and other people use bleach and baking soda. Yes, in baths.

I'm talking about ingesting it. We're talking about something very different here. OK? We're not talking about bathing it, we're not talking about topical applications. We're talking about putting disinfectant in your body.

People were Googling disinfectant and not the word bath. Injection. That's why I'm bringing it up.

So, you know, let's not make a mistake about what we're focusing on here. Now, the future. At home tests are coming out but they are still dependent on the supplies that we can get. Right? The reagent, the swabs. So, what do you think the future looks like, let's say the next 10 months?

BRILLIANT: I'm optimistic if you give me 10 months. If you restrict me to a month or two, it's going to be a close call. Some of the saliva tests and the pinprick test for a drop of blood, at home tests that look like pregnancy tests.

Everybody in the business knows that's what we need. And we need it widespread. I heard Tony Fauci yesterday say at the time, at the time 100 event that he thought that we would need 1.5 million tests a month. That's getting up to the numbers that I think that we're going to have to have.

Eventually, I think we'll have to have hundreds of millions of tests that are available without a prescription. You can call into the drugstore and have it delivered to you. Until we have that, we're blinded by not knowing where this dangerous virus is.

[23:10:04]

CUOMO: And don't get wowed by the numbers you at home and say this is unreasonable. You guys are asking for too much. We do the same with the flu. But you know, we get the flus, you know, the tests we have the same issues about a vaccine. This is not unnormal. To have to scale up is not unnormal. To reopen, to do things where you don't know what you are unleashing by doing it. That's what's not normal. Dr. Larry Brilliant, thank you for helping us understand just a little

bit better.

(CROSSTALK)

BRILLIANT: Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Be well.

CUOMO: You too, sir, you too.

All right. Up next. We're taking you to the front lines. All right? The fight against coronavirus. Dr. Anthony Leno is saving lives in New York hotspot. He has good reason to believe this virus was among us as early as January. Why? Answer, next.

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CUOMO: All right. So, let's discuss the reality. Is New York flattening the curve? Yes. But what does that mean about the people on the front lines are still seeing every day. There's no let up. Why? Because flattening means the rate of increase of cases is going down.

So, people on the frontlines have been overwhelmed from jump. That means they are still overwhelmed. Severely sick patients still coming in. More than they can handle.

The doctor you see here is Anthony Leno. He had to pronounce six people dead in one shift. OK? The average is about one. So please, don't buy into this hype. This is what they signed up for. This is what they do. Please. OK?

Not under these circumstances. Not without the protective gear that they assumed was there and under equipped and overwhelmed. That's not what anybody signs up for.

Dr. Leno is the director of emergency medicine at a hospital that's been one of the major hotspots here in New York State, St. Joseph's Medical Center in Yonkers. It's a privilege to have him on the show tonight. Doc, bless you and your colleagues for keeping the rest of us safe.

ANTHONY LENO, DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, SAINT JOSEPH'S MEDICAL CENTER: Thank you very much, Chris. It's good to be with you tonight.

CUOMO: We can't let fatigue get in the way of facts. I know we all want to reopen. I know it's not fair to you that people are being so selfish. Remind people what is your daily reality now that everybody thinks things are getting better.

LENO: I think we're still seeing a lot of patients who are sick. It's no doubt we're on the backside of the peak which is good. We're not seeing it like we were several weeks ago. But on no way has this been easy.

There are still a lot of people particularly the older folks coming from nursing homes predisposing illnesses like heart disease, diabetes, emphysema, things like that who are hit particularly hard by this. We do everything we can for them. But there's clearly such a risk to them and it's so sad when you watch people just go through what they go through, particularly when they're alone.

CUOMO: What is the hardest part medically with what you're dealing with right now?

LENO: I think medically we all train. We all had a blueprint a game plan of how we approach things. This disease has been so devastating. It's been for people have been often so rapid. Deterioration that we cannot almost keep up with it.

We have gotten better. We've gotten a lot better as we have gone on at it but it's still been difficult to treat. You know one of the most basic things that we've -- that's evolved that we figured out is pruning. I know some other people have talked about this.

But getting people on their stomach and they tend to breathe better that way. Which is kind of counter intuitive. Most people that have respiratory failure we tend to intubate as an aggressive early intervention and they did better.

In this case, it's not. And we had to learn that on the fly. Fortunately, there's some national collective data that comes out. So, when you stay up on it, you make these adjustments and your staff makes these adjustments on the fly.

CUOMO: Now, you mention something earlier that I know you can't train for. The emotional toll. Yes, you have had to watch people die. You're not a newbie. You're aware of the reality. Six in a day, six times the average. People dying alone, this is new.

You guys are having to go above and beyond to be consolers. To be the last face that people see because they can't have their families. We've have heard stories all over the country that just break my heart about you guys using face time so families can see their loved ones. That's about you people. That's not about policy. How hard is it for

you emotionally to be in the situations?

LENO: It's crushing to do it. Time after time. We have all been had tough days. We've all had particularly tough and heartbreaking cases. It's unusual to have so many work all day and then go home and go to bed and ten hit it again the next day in the same way and realize that the same thing is going to happen.

None of us -- there's no way to train for that. It's just hard. Particularly a lot of the people who went into the hospital were having conversations with the family because they didn't feel good in generic terms or maybe they had a cough and a fever.

Who would imagine that in a very, very relatively short time they would have had respiratory failure? Potentially been intubated and never have gotten to spoke -- to speak to their family again. The next time the family is talking to somebody is we would call them for updates. [23:19:58]

But being so pressed for time there's so much time you can spend on the phone. And at some point, I'm on the phone discussing with a family member the death of their loved one time and time again. And that is just soul crushing for all of us.

CUOMO: What do you seeing in your staff? What kind of toll is this taking? Not just the hours not walking around like spacemen in PPE if you're blessed enough to have all you need.

Having to take this home, to the extent that they get home. Not being able to be in close contact with their own loved ones because they are worried about what they're bringing home. Having to deal with this kind of emotional disconnect between the families and their loved ones. What do you see in the faces of the people you are working with?

LENO: It's across the board. You'll see people get angry out of disproportionately to the events that are happening. You'll also see people just randomly sit at the desk and maybe break down and start crying. Somebody will say, you know, what's, what's wrong? We all know what's wrong. But there's only so much you can do.

Eventually, that release valve just comes out. And sometimes people just had a step back for at least a few minutes to catch their breath because the next patient is coming in and you have to go back after it again.

CUOMO: I know how maddening it is for you guys to hear reckless voices in politics and policies that only create strain for you and more danger for the people that you're going to be treating.

You're not a politician. I know that you believe you saw cases as far back as January. I'm not going to put any political burden on you because that's a controversial thing right now. The data will tell us the truth about how long it's been around. And we're certainly wrong about everything we've thought so far about cases and density and timing.

We'll see what the reality is about how long we have been dealing with this. But here's what we know for sure. Dr. Leno, you are the best of us. And please convey our love and our respect to the men and women who are doing the job for you up in Yonkers at St. Joseph.

LENO: I really will. And I appreciate your support. We're in the eye of the storm and we're going to continue to hang in to the greatest possible extent we can. So, thank you again.

CUOMO: You are the best of us. You are taking care of the rest of us. And without you we have no shot. So be well and stay healthy. Let me know whatever you need, we're a call away. All right?

LENO: Thank you. Thank you.

CUOMO: Now, yes, yes. New York coronavirus epicenter. Right? The Navajo Nation is not far behind. The what? The Navajo Nation. Since when do we talk about reservations? Since do we talk about Native Americans. Since right now.

The Navajo Nation is the largest reservation in America. It has the country's third highest rate of coronavirus infection. Why? You will be disgusted by the reason why. You will be appalled at what they are trying to do. What they have to do to get help. Please watch the next segment right after this.

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CUOMO: All right. When you think of New York and New Jersey as having the highest coronavirus infection rates in the U.S., it makes sense. They are big states. Right? Travel hubs, density. Big cities.

What about number three? Guess what it is. California? Seattle? Texas? No. The Navajo Nation. The largest Native American reservation dealing with a number of mounting and unique challenges in battling COVID-19.

I know that you're not used to hearing about what's happening on the reservations. And that is a disgrace in and of itself. But tonight, on the show it ends now. Let's be joined by president of the Navajo Nation, Jonathan Nez. It is good to see you, sir. Thank you for being with us.

JONATHAN NEZ, PRESIDENT, NAVAJO NATION: Good evening, Chris. And thank you for having us on the show.

CUOMO: Well, look, I'm sorry it took this. And I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. Please, let the audience understand what you're dealing with.

NEZ: Well, as of this evening, Chris, we have total number of tests that have given are 9,360. So, we have been aggressively testing our citizens here on the Navajo Nation.

Of those, positive cases, 1,540. Negative results, 6,893. And we have 58 deaths here on the Navajo Nation. Twenty-seven square miles of land, 350,000 population here of Navajo

citizens.

And Chris, let me just say that I want to say thank you to your brother. He's doing a great job, Andrew. There in the state of New York. We're starting to team up together. And we're looking at ways to where we can partner in the future. We're going to be sending up some gloves.

You know, we have our own latex glove manufacturing facility here on the Navajo Nation. And so, we want to bless the state of New York. Their healthcare professionals that are on the front lines. And I know your brother Andrew is going to also help us with some of those extra supplies that he's gotten there in the state of New York.

So, it's a great partnership. I want to say thank you to the movie stars like Martin Ruffalo, Sean Penn, and many others that have been donating their time and money, and also getting the word out on what's happening here in the Navajo Nation. And clear across the country, as a matter of fact, in all tribal communities.

[23:29:59]

CUOMO: Right. Here is what bothers me, OK? This story picked my interest not because it is a good story for New York and my brother being the governor. It is because it is appalling to me that New York has to cut a deal or get into a cooperation agreement with the Navajo Nation in Arizona.

NEZ: Right.

CUOMO: Where the hell is the federal government? Then we start doing a research and everything people were telling me is true. You are getting bad tests. They're telling you that you got to pay for your own test. They are not paying attention to the information. They are not coming to you. And it's not like they're doing you a favor. You have agreements with the government about what they are supposed to do and not do.

NEZ: That's true.

CUOMO: What is the reality about how you have been respected or disrespected under what is supposed to be law?

NEZ: Absolutely. We have a treaty relationship, a special relationship with the federal government. Hundred and fifty plus years ago, our Navajo citizens were taken off of this land, taken on a long walk over 400 plus miles to a place called Fort Summer, and they were ready to take us to Oklahoma and Florida. But our ancestors back then and our leaders back then said no, we want to go back to our homeland.

And so they signed that treaty and that treaty was our reason for going back to our homeland. There was a reciprocal relationship here where the Navajo people at that time said, United States, if you are ever in trouble, the Navajo people will be there to help you. And guess what, Chris? You probably heard about the Navajo code talkers, utilizing our language in order to win World War II.

So, tribal nations throughout the country have been attributed greatly to this great country of ours. And guess what, sometimes, the first citizens of this country are at the bottom of the list when it comes to federal aid. This is what we have been trying to say for the past several weeks now is, OK --

CUOMO: Right.

NEZ: -- why does not federal aid go directly to tribal nations rather than passing through federal government or federal agencies or the states? It should go directly to the citizen that is intended for.

CUOMO: It is no irony that, you know, we had a nurse on last night from Phoenix who went out and silently stood in the middle of a protest of people saying that this was a violation of their freedom, they can all stay home.

NEZ: That's right. CUOMO: -- and meanwhile you got have a reservation there, number three, in case concentration. You have to reach out to states on the other side of the country to get help because the federal government is leaving you in the breach. So President Nez, I want people to know the reality.

NEZ: Yeah.

CUOMO: Please know you got a channel through me --

NEZ: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- to tell people the reality of what is happening on the reservation.

NEZ: Well, let me just end with this, Chris. You know, this is a great example of a sovereign state, the state of New York, and a sovereign tribal nation working together because of the lack of federal resources and aid. You know, Andrew (ph), myself, we are not just going to feel sorry for ourselves. We are going to step up.

Bless our citizens' hearts for stepping up to the plate to help each other out, This is a great story of resilience, of overcoming tough times, and we are all in this together Chris, all of us throughout the country.

We all need to listen to those health care professionals, those doctors, those nurses, those police officers out there. They are our warriors on the frontlines that are there helping our citizens. So let's all around the country listen to those health care professionals and the best place to be right now is at home. Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: It is the right message, Mr. President. Thank you for delivering on the show. And again, we are a call away. God bless you. I wish you the best there. I hope that this is in some way able to make its way through without too much damage to the people that you are in charge of.

NEZ: I hear a lot, Chris. (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Thank you, Mr. President. All right, look, it's a number three density of cases in the country. It's been so undertreated by the -- underserved by the federal government that New York has to get involved, like New York does not have enough trouble already. Why is that the best we can do? More context, the so-called forgotten pandemic of 1918. Why was it called that? What should it teach us today?

A health professor and bestselling officer who investigated one of history's greatest medical crises, he is going to join because you know the rule, right?

[23:35:00]

CUOMO: What happens if you don't learn the lessons of history? You are doom to repeat. Next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. A president not being honest with the American people about the dangers of a virus. States choosing to reopen early all in the middle of an election year.

[23:40:00]

CUOMO: Not talking about now. Now is the same situation in 1918 with the Spanish flu. So, what can we learn and hopefully not repeat? Joining us now is John Barry, Tulane University professor and bestselling author of "The Great Influenza," the story of the deadliest pandemic in history. It is good to have you with us.

JOHN BARRY, PROFESSOR AT TULANE UNIVERSITY: Thanks. I'm glad you and your family seem to be doing pretty well.

CUOMO: We are the norm. You know, you get sick, goes through the whole family, and we're just being transparent so people know they're not alone when they suffer this way. And if others are worried about what it looks like, they can look at it through this family. We are the coronavirus casa here right now, custody Cuomo.

So, professor, when you look at 1918 and the politics and the antics, how similar are what you're seeing now?

BARRY: Well, the reasons are different but the results are very similar. Because we were at war and Wilson didn't want to deflect any attention from the war, he was afraid that any bad news would hurt morale and hurt war effort. And that's why the government was lying. Lies then were echoed by public health leaders not only nationally but locally. There was no Tony Fauci back then. So, we have that similarity.

They did eventually, too slowly. Most cities closed down, similar, not quite as extreme as we are doing now actually. The cities that closed down earlier and stayed closed longer did better not only at the time but when it came to the economic recovery afterwards those cities did better as well.

CUOMO: What lesson should we learn that you're not sure we have?

BARRY: The first lesson is to tell the truth. People can deal with reality, rumor, fear, confusion. That does not help accomplish anything. That's really the first lesson. If you want to mobilize a society, you need to trust the public. And if you expect them to trust you, then you have to trust them and that means the truth.

I think your brother is doing a great job and other leaders around the world. I think the governor of Louisiana where I am, in New Orleans, and the mayor here I think have done good jobs. That's the first lesson.

The second lesson is, you know, by analyzing what happened in 1918 beginning in the George W. Bush administration and I was part of that effort, we began to plan on what kind of steps we could take in the event of another pandemic because everybody in Infectious Disease who knows anything about it knew that there would be another pandemic, although we expected it to be influenza, not this virus.

CUOMO: Right. And what about the sense of what we learned or should have learned about reopening too soon and how to deal with the anxiety of wanting to get open again and the balance of public health and public interest?

BARRY: Well, I mean, the pressures back then were remarkably similar. The business community kept pressing. There were cities that reopened too soon. There was -- San Antonio is the perfect example.

Much like Georgia, they were one of the last cities to issue any closing orders. Much like Georgia, they were just about the earliest to lift the closing orders. And San Antonio ended up with 53 percent of the entire population getting sick. Ninety-eight percent of every single household in the city had at least one person sick.

Hopefully that it turns out not to be what happens in Georgia. None of us want to see anybody get sick. But I think the actions taken there are dangerous.

CUOMO: Very interesting. One bright spot is, as I read in your book, the media. Because of such widespread support for the war, they were complicit in hiding the reality of what was going on with this. At least this time, you do see people are keeping it pretty straight about what the public interest is, what information has to get out there and not get caught up in other stuff for the most part.

John Barry, thank you very much for your insight. We appreciate it. I hope you stay well.

BARRY: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Another group to keep your eye on, OK? The veterans. They are suffering right now uniquely and they are uniquely vulnerable. We're not even sure if the V.A. is counting the dead accurately.

[23:44:57]

CUOMO: So when we come back, we're going to talk to a veteran himself to help the veterans help themselves. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: This is a hard time for veterans. A lot of them are elderly and at risk of underlying conditions. A lot of them are dealing with PTSD and other issues. Social distancing and shutdowns can make symptoms worse. The V.A. says the number of veterans seeking mental health care skyrocketed in March when most stay-at-home orders went in place.

[23:50:04]

CUOMO: It is a massive jump in phone call appointments, group teletherapy and virtual counselling.

Jeremy Harrell is an Iraq war veteran and founder of the Veteran's Club in Kentucky, which is giving support to those who are struggling. Sir, thank you for your service and thank you for your service, once again, in helping your brothers and sisters in need.

JEREMY HARRELL, IRAQ WAR VETERAN, FOUNDER AND CEO OF VETERAN'S CLUB: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate that. It's my pleasure.

CUOMO: Pleasure is mine. Tell us about the need. What are you seeing? What's going on out there?

HARRELL: Well, we're seeing a lot of an increase in mental health issues amongst the veteran community for a lot of different reasons. It's unique for veterans. It's not quite the same as those who have not served. For example, those -- the most vulnerable veterans, the veterans who have suicidal thoughts or have debilitating PTSD and other mental health issues, the uncertainty.

The kind of chaos of the situation and the fear of the unknown is very triggering for a lot of these veterans. And what I've noticed, as I've been closely monitoring the situation is, even above food and security concerns and even above finance, personal finances, the mental health concern has been light years ahead.

In fact, I asked the community what about this pandemic was the most concerning and it was their mental health. And so we have a problem within the community right now that we need to address a lot better than we have been. And so, because we can't always depend on government and depend on federal agencies, we take it into our own hands to ensure that we serve our veterans the right way.

CUOMO: First of all, I hope that sinks in with the audience. How appalling is that? How often do we hear all our leaders and everybody say we support the troops, we love them, and they are our heroes? You heard what he just said, right? That he can't depend on the federal government the way he should be able to. That he can't depend on the rest of us so they have to help themselves. How embarrassing for us.

And, you know, there is also a distinction to be had there in terms of veterans versus the rest of the civilian society. There's stigma for all of us, but especially in the veteran community. There's a culture clash with coming forward and saying that you have mental health issues. You guys are taught to suffer in silence. You're taught to endure. And, often, this is portrayed as weakness when that vulnerability is definitely strength.

So, what is your message to the brothers and sisters out there who served about what they should be reaching out for during this time of need or at least open to?

HARRELL: Yeah, you know, my message is very clear, and that when we were told and trained to suck it up and drive on and, like you said, to suffer in silence and not be vulnerable about what's going on within ourselves, that doesn't serve us when we're back home, right? That has its place in combat, right, because we often have to adapt and overcome to the situations that we're in there.

But, back here, we need to support each other. We need to be transparent and vulnerable. And we need to be willing and encouraged by others, particularly those who say they support us. They need to do a better job of encouraging us to be able to talk about these things without judgment and without making us feeling like we're broken, like I hate that word, you know, the word broken. We're not broken.

Veterans are some of the most resilient people in the world. In fact, we're assets and we have been and we still can be. And so my message is to don't be afraid to announce that you're struggling right now because without doing that, we can't help you. And I know, personally, we want to help. We want to do all we can to enhance your quality of life, but not just the veteran, their whole family. We focus on the whole family.

And so I just encourage veterans to get out of the mindset that we must just suck it up and drive on. We don't have to do that anymore. That served us one time but it doesn't anymore. So reach out and be a voice if you're feeling like you're not getting the support you need. Call people out. That's how we -- that's what we have to do, right? And only when you do that do you get results.

CUOMO: Listen. We hear the call. We're asking for Secretary Wilkie to come on the show at his convenience to talk about what is going on in the V.A., what the needs are and what aren't being met. That is a demand that we should be making on your behalf.

Jeremy Harrell, thank you very much. After the segment, I'll get any information you want people to have. I'll put it out on social media for the show and personally to kind of spread the word. We are an open channel for you to get any information out that you need to the men and women who served. OK?

HARRELL: Yes, Chris. I appreciate that because you're the first to reach out to want to talk about this angle of the pandemic and it's really surprising to me and disappointing.

[23:54:57]

HARRELL: So I appreciate you being a patriot and inviting us on so that we can talk about these much-important discussions. Thank you.

CUOMO: I owe you guys everything. You do the fight so that we can have the freedoms. And I've literally had you keep me alive in Iraq and elsewhere. So, the thanks goes to you. It is the least I can do. Be well, god bless, stay healthy.

HARRELL: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you for watching. I hope that you reach out to people this weekend. Take a little time. We're isolated, but we don't have to be alone, all right? The news continues here on CNN.

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