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Georgia to Reopen Some Businesses on Friday; Some U.S. Governors Say It's Too Soon to Reopen; Study Shows Virus Far More Widespread in New York Than Thought; Trump's Response to Coronavirus Follows Pattern of Disagreeing with Science; Survey Shows Many U.K. Doctors Don't Have Proper Gear; Oil Prices Rise After Historic Lows; Lines for Food Donations Amid Dire Jobless Numbers. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired April 24, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: The most aggressive plan to reopen a U.S. state set to get underway in Georgia despite a warning from Donald Trump. Cars as far as the eyes can see. People waiting for food to feed their families as unemployment in the U.S. climbs.

And the United Kingdom begins human trials on a potential vaccine.

We're live from our CNN studios in Atlanta. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Natalie Allen and this is CNN NEWSROOM.

Well, thank you again for joining us. As the coronavirus pandemic rages around the world like a wildfire, the U.S. state of Georgia, right here, is bucking the stay-at-home mandate by reopening businesses that invite close contact. The exact opposite of social distancing.

This is a state that already has more than 22,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus and more than 800 deaths. Almost all of them since mid- March and those numbers keep growing daily. Yet in the coming hours, barber shops, nail salons, massage and tattoo parlors, gyms, bowling alleys and other small businesses all across Georgia will have the option of reopening to customers. Restaurants and movie theaters will be allowed to reopen on Monday. Health experts say this move is premature. Even President Trump says he disapproves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want the states to open more than he does, much more than he does, but I didn't like to see spas at this early stage nor did the doctors, is that a correct statement, Deborah? I didn't like to see spas opening, frankly. I didn't like to see a lot of things happening and I wasn't happy with it and I wasn't happy with Brian Kemp. I wasn't at all happy because -- and I could have done something about it if I wanted to. But I'm saying let the governors do it. But I wasn't happy with Brian Kemp. Spas, beauty parlors, tattoo parlors. And by the way, I want them to open -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) numbers --

TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. I want them to open and I want them to open as soon as possible and I want the state to open.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: While many U.S. states are eager to get people back to work, at least two governors in New Jersey and West Virginia say they are not yet ready to follow Georgia's lead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)\

PHIL MURPHY, NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: We try to call every shot we can here, based on science, fact, data. I want to open up as much as the next guy, by the way. We're not there yet. We're just not there yet. Now that doesn't mean we're not preparing and war gaming for that, trying to get the right level of advice, which we are. But the house is still on fire. We lost overnight 307 people in New Jersey. Our death toll is now 5,368.

A lot of the other metrics have begun to stabilize which is good. But they are stabilizing, not going down yet. And so, I hope that doesn't happen as a national matter. It certainly means I think any state needs that robust testing and contact tracing infrastructure in place before you reopen. So you can quickly snuff out hot spots but we're not there yet.

JIM JUSTICE, WEST VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: I care about one thing, and that is keep our people safe and protected and get us back to work. I am trying to do that with all in me as fast as I possibly can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: On a global scale Johns Hopkins University has now tracked 2.7 million people with coronavirus. About one third are in the U.S. where the death toll now approaching 50,000. And new testing data suggests the actual number of U.S. cases might be far higher. We get more on that from CNN's Nick Watt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The number of people infected by this rampant virus in New York state, the global hot spot, might actually be a stunning 10 times higher than we thought.

DR. AMESH ADALJA, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: It tells us that this virus is much more widespread.

WATT: Phase one of an antibody testing program suggests that as many as 2.7 million New Yorkers might have already been infected. But the state's current confirmed case count is just under 270,000.

[04:05:00]

ANDREW CUOMO, NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Thirteen-point nine percent tested positive for having the antibodies. They had the virus. They developed the antibodies. And they are now, quote unquote, recovered.

WATT: New York's death toll of around 19,500 is almost certainly also too low.

CUOMO: That number is going to go up. Those deaths are only hospitalization or nursing home deaths. That does not have what are called at-home deaths.

WATT: Now, a higher infection rate could mean this virus is actually less deadly than we thought. It kills fewer of those who get it. And --

ADALJA: We are developing some immunity to this. There are people that have mild illness that don't even know that they're sick. And those individuals may be part of how we move forward as we start to think about reopening.

WATT: But New York is not opening up. Not yet.

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: We need to see how this is playing out in each community and have the ability to test thoroughly and protect citizens before we think about opening up.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: We absolutely need to significantly ramp up. I am not overly confident right now, at all.

WATT: Wherever, whenever we open, cases will likely rise.

CARLOS GIMENEZ, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA MAYOR: We're never going to come up with something which is -- gives you a zero probability or possibility that you're going to spread the virus. But what we want to do is make sure that you reduce the possibility.

WATT: In Miami-Dade, despite a new case count that is not consistently coming down in accordance with those White House reopening guidelines, apparently, they're planning to reopen marinas, golf courses, and parks with twists.

GIMENEZ: You will be able to play tennis. Singles tennis but not doubles tennis. You have to jog in a certain direction. So there are a lot of differences.

WATT: And meatpacking plants still seeing outbreaks across the country. Tyson just closed its fourth facility, a beef processing plant in Washington state, to test all employees. This place usually produces enough beef every day to feed four million people. Not anymore.

Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ALLEN: And with mixed signals coming out of the White House about whether states should reopen or not, we also saw the U.S. President openly supporting a drug that had not been proven. Now he's talking about using sunlight and disinfectant treatments. For more about it, here's Alex Marquardt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a showdown that plays out again and again, the President versus science.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

MARQUARDT: Armed with facts, figures and some of the smartest minds in the country, President Trump chooses to instead go with his gut.

TRUMP: Now, this is just my hunch.

MARQUARDT: Or what he hopes will happen.

TRUMP: It was also possible it doesn't come back at all.

MARQUARDT: The latest episode was saying Wednesday, that the coronavirus may not come back later this year. It was in response and direct contradiction to the head of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield, telling "The Washington Post" that the virus could come back in the winter and be even more difficult when coupled with the seasonal flu.

When Dr. Anthony Fauci took the microphone, he backed up Redfield and set the President straight.

FAUCI: There will be coronavirus in the fall.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE COORDINATOR: We didn't have --

MARQUARDT: The other expert on the coronavirus task force, Dr. Deborah Birx, also unwilling to agree with the President.

TRUMP: There's a good chance COVID-19 will not come back?

BIRX: We don't know.

MARQUARDT: Trump has said he wants to give people hope, that there's light at the end of the tunnel. But false hope can be damaging, even deadly. President Trump has promoted the use of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine with no proof that it's effective against COVID-19.

TRUMP: If are you a doctor, a nurse, a first responder, a medical person going into hospitals, they say taking it before the fact is good but what you do have to lose? They say take it.

MARQUARDT: Several new studies, including one by the V.A., said the drug may actually harm critically ill patients.

TRUMP: So what do I know? I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor. But I have common sense.

MARQUARDT: Trump's boosting of the treatment was part of the firestorm that resulted in a top HHS scientist losing his job.

In a stunning statement on Wednesday, Dr. Rick Bright said that he was sidelined after he resisted, quote, efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connection.

Bright said he had insisted that money for the coronavirus be invested into safe and scientifically vetted solutions and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit. One of those was hydroxychloroquine. The President claimed Wednesday, he'd never heard of Dr. Bright.

TRUMP: The guy says he was pushed out of a job. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't.

[04:10:00]

MARQUARDT: Another scientist the President has heard of is Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. She infuriated the President after warning in late February that severe illnesses in the U.S. related to the coronavirus were not a question of if but when.

The President got the news as he boarded Air Force One in India to head home. He then cancelled a meeting with top health experts about mitigating the virus after he heard what Messonnier had said and the stock market crashed.

Trump's skepticism for science extends well beyond the COVID crisis. It's been a thread throughout his term from pulling out of the Paris climate accord to ripping up environmental regulations, even disputing the paths of hurricanes.

TRUMP: That was the original chart.

MARQUARDT: Last September, showing a map of the path of hurricane Dorian, that the President changed with a sharpie to include Alabama, even though meteorologists said there would be no impact on the state.

MARQUARDT (on camera): The President, of course, is not a fan of anyone whose messages run counter to his so after Dr. Nancy Messonnier spoke out in February, she wasn't fired but she was no longer allowed to speak on behalf of the CDC about coronavirus. We should note that the CDC hasn't held one of their own press briefings since last month. Instead, the CDC now participates in the coronavirus task force briefing at the White House which of course, is now led daily by President Donald Trump.

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: We turn now to the U.K. where British doctors say they are having a tough time still getting the personal protective equipment they need to take care of patients. Doctors Association U.K. found 38 percent report they don't have proper eye protection. The same percent say they don't have top quality facemasks when they most need them. Six of ten say the masks have not been tested to ensure they fit properly and 75 percent say they don't have long sleeve gowns.

Let's talk about this with our Nic Robertson joining me now live from London with more about it. It's hard to believe that weeks into this they're still struggling with PPE that they need.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And struggling to get it to the vital people. One of the most dangerous procedures is what's known as aerosol generating procedures, AGP. This is often what's used when somebody is put on a ventilator. And half of the doctors polled in this survey which ran from the beginning of April until a couple of days ago run by a doctor's association here in the U.K. involving more than 1,000 doctors responding. Close to half said that are involved in those aerosol generating procedures they don't have the proper gowns either.

So these figures are very shocking. They certainly run counter to the message that the government has been trying to communicate. Earlier in this week the government was in deep difficulty -- as sort of public relations difficulty because they talked about getting much-needed PPE supplies in from Turkey. They said that would happen by the weekend. It didn't, it happened several days later. And even to this day, it appears that only half of the purported shipment has actually arrived in the U.K.

So it's partly a messaging issue for the government that it's messing up its messaging on this. And it's also critically a supply issue that the frontline medics still don't have what they need and the problems run beyond there as well. To care homes and places like that where we know that the outbreak is really high.

The government's message has been what we've provided over a billion pieces of personal protection equipment that prior to the coronavirus pandemic we only have to supply to a relatively small number of locations. Now it's up to close to 60,000 different locations need to receive this equipment. They've employed the Army to do it. But it's still a narrative the government's struggling with. But the narratives they're struggling with today are the sort of new procedures, test, track and trace to figure out who has got the virus and where it's moving to and also ending the lockdown. That's perhaps the point of biggest pressure for the government at the moment.

The Scottish first minister talking quite openly about what a new situation, new post lockdown situation could look like. And of course, the Prime Minister still not fully back at Downing Street, still in his country retreat and not quite clear when he's going to be at his desk. And a lot of people speculating that without him driving the government message, disagreements are going to continue.

ALLEN: He has been out for some time. All right, Nic Robertson, with the latest from London. Thank you, Nic.

[04:15:00] New numbers on unemployment paint a grim picture across the U.S. Even as the government is about to launch a massive new economic lifeline. People are lining up at food banks, many for the first time in their lives. That story is coming up here.

Also, every red dot you see here is a massive oil tanker that is completely empty. We explain and tell you what that means for the global economy in a live report ahead here. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALLEN: With so many people stuck at home are losing their jobs, the world has been using a lot less oil so prices have been collapsing. But now they're bouncing back from historic lows just a little bit. The WTI -- as you see there -- now is hovering at about $16 to $17 a barrel. There's no better correspondent than our John Defterios to break this down for us. It has been quite a roller coaster ride with oil prices. And now we've seen the most volatile week in the history of the oil market. What's going on?

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, it's going to be quieter as we finish out the week unless there's an extraordinary shock at the end of the day here in the Middle East. Natalie, we saw swings of $50 a barrel down and then up.

[04:20:00]

We were negative 37 on Monday. And as you suggested if we look at the live quotes again -- around 17 for WTI. Ain't bad considering where we started. And we were at a better than 20-year low for North Sea Brent and hovering between 21 and 22 again. It's a big win for the industry. Now having said that, we're going to be down eight of the last nine weeks as a result of this drop in demand which is the sharpest drop since World War II.

So we saw the U.S./Iranian tensions close to here in the Strait of Hormuz which is always a historic choke point because of those tensions handling 20 percent of the tanker traffic around the world. But we're getting rather desperate for storage because of this drop in demand. On shore of Fujairah, which is South of the strait of Hormuz, it's filling up very quickly. So we have more radical options coming to the fore.

Tankertrackers.com gave us a picture this. There's 800 ships around the world, nearly half are empty right now, which is extraordinary, the super tankers carry 2 million barrels a day. So we have 350 tankers here saying that you have storage of nearly 700 million barrels if not more. Because that number is just a little bit higher. And we see tanker rates rising because there's no place on shore to book over the next couple of months.

We see Cushing, Oklahoma, for example, it's filling up fast. Storage will probably fill up by the end of June in the United States. How much is demand down? 30 percent right now. And the International Energy Agency is suggesting that could be a historic 10 percent throughout an entire year for 2020 and perhaps a slow recovery in 2021. Depending on when the economy opens up around the world going forward.

ALLEN: All right, John Defterios for us. Thank you, John. We'll see you again soon.

Well, the American jobs market has not been as bad as it is right now since the days of the Great Depression. More than 4 million Americans filed for unemployment benefits in the last week alone. You can see the rate of loss slowing down. But still it piles onto already awful numbers that have seen more than 26 million people losing their jobs in a little over a month.

And this is how that graph looks on the ground. People unable to feed their families lining up for food handouts. This is the scene just from outside of Miami, Florida. More than 1,000 families, some sleeping in their cars to keep a place in line. And scenes just like it, are playing out across the country.

Let's bring in CNN's chief business correspondent Christine Romans. She's in New York for us. And those lines right there, Christine, show how people are hurting and the question is when, if these jobs will even come back this year.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Those lines in Florida, really remarkable. And what we can tell you is that the data, the labor department data show that in Florida, that's the hardest place to get certified and to get the jobless checks from the government. You know, the idea here in the U.S., the U.S. system is that when you lose a job you apply for state unemployment benefits. And in the stimulus, there's extra money to keep people as close to whole as possible for four months.

But what we've been hearing is that people are having a really hard time filing for and getting those benefits started. So hopefully soon more people will have money in their pockets. You know, and that's different than some of the other models in the U.K., for example, and in Canada where the governments are directly paying payrolls of company to keep people whole and to keep the stress out of all of this.

Imagine how stressful it is for these millions and millions of people to now be worried about their money while they're worried about their health. So this is an economic crisis on top of a health crisis and just such a tragedy. You know, we're doing this on purpose. That's what's so odd. There's no playbook for this. We're basically putting the labor market to sleep on purpose so that we can try to come out the other end for the health crisis but it is a real stress, a big stress for so many millions of families.

ALLEN: Yes, right, you're right, they're stressed with money and they're stressed because they're still concerned about getting the coronavirus. What about the help from the federal government. We saw some reports this week. Big money going places that people didn't want to see it go. What about small businesses? ROMANS: Yes, there's some real frustration among small businesses to

be honest. So now the House has passed another $484 billion in stimulus. $310 billion or so of that is going to be specifically for small businesses. And the Treasury Department has asked big public companies who have access to other funds to please don't take taxpayer money.

Now the statute has been written so they can apply, legally they can apply, but the Treasury Department is trying to use kind of a thing, you know, the public shaming to say do not do this if you have other means of money. This money should really be going to main street, not to big public companies.

In terms of main street, there is $60 billion that is set aside specifically to get to the smaller community development lenders.

[04:25:00]

And that I think is important because those are the people with ties to maybe companies that are unbanked, that don't have real robust ties to the banking system. So you want to be able to get money to those companies because they really did miss out last time.

ALLEN: Absolutely, and there's no wiggle room when they miss out right now.

ROMANS: No, no.

ALLEN: Christine Romans, in New York. Christine, always we appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, there's no stopping Gertrude Larson. The hardy senior citizen is a nurse by training who survived another pandemic as a toddler more than a century ago. As Kevin Wallevand of WDAY news tells us, the energetic Minnesota resident is making herself useful in this medical emergency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEVIN WALLEVAND, REPORTER WDAY NEWS: (voice-over) In the heart of Fergus Falls, across the ripples of Lake Alice, a cozy house with hearts on the window is home to one of Otter Tail county's veteran nurses.

GERTRUDE LARSON, SEAMSTRESS AND NURSE: It's a Singer sewing machine.

WALLEVAND: Gertrude Larson is back at her trusty Singer sewing machine she bought a little while ago.

LARSON: It was in 1939.

WALLEVAND: Sewing masks for nursing home staffs and residents here in Fergus Falls.

LARSON: And the fact is, I don't have arthritis in my hands and I can see. WALLEVAND: Gertrude is 104. 104.

LARSON: Oh, I've always liked -- I love to work. I like to do something.

WALLEVAND: Once a nurse, always a nurse. Gertrude graduated from then Saint Luke's Nursing school in Fargo back in 1938. This after leaving the family farm near Katheryn, North Dakota, she always loved her nursing profession.

(on camera): What did you like most?

LARSON: Orthopedic surgery and peds. She was around during the 1918, 1919 flu pandemic. On a farm she remembers her mother isolating all of the kids on the farm away from everyone else.

(voice-over): And so decades later with more than a century behind her, this long-time nurse, sharp as attack, wants to help in some way and without recognition or fanfare.

LARSON: Having been brought up Lutheran and Norwegian, I didn't know good or bad.

WALLEVAND: At 104, Gertrude still lives in her own house. Still climbs the stairs to her sewing room upstairs which is soaked in the sun and adorned with an immigrant trunk from Norway. She says this mask project is simply doing what her ancestors did, taking care of each other.

LARSON: My civil war grandma lived to be 103 but I have outlived her by a year now, I'm so glad.

WALLEVAND: From Fergus Falls, Kevin Wallevand, WDAY news.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: OK, how adorable is she? Way to go, Gertrude. Love that story.

All right. Coming up here, ready, or not, several U.S. states are beginning to open up their economies. We take a look at some of those plans and the risks that come with them.

Plus, as the epicenter of the outbreak slowly gets back to normal, CNN travels to Wuhan, China, and speak to the widow of one of the first whistleblowers of COVID-19.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END