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Georgia Reopens Nonessential Businesses As State Death Toll Rises; New York State Now Has 22,000 Deaths With More Than 400 In Just The Past 24 Hours; California Reopens Some Beaches As Governor Urges Social Distancing; WHO: "No Evidence" Having COVID-19 Protects From Reinfection; Atlanta Mayor Warns Of Health Risks As Businesses Reopen; Trump Signs Order Temporarily Blocking Some Immigration. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 25, 2020 - 18:00   ET



ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Thanks so much for staying with me. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And more than a quarter of the world's confirmed coronavirus deaths are right here in the United States. The death toll at this hour, more than 53,000 people.

The nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci said today, the U.S. should increase testing by twice as much and he thinks this will be possible.

His words come on the same day the World Health Organization warned, there's no evidence that having the coronavirus once makes you immune from getting it again.

Despite still rising infection rate, some states are rolling out the first phases of their back to business plans this weekend. In Georgia for example, hair salons, gyms and tattoo shops are already open even as the state death toll now tops 900.

And this just in from overseas, U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson will return to work on Monday after recovering from the coronavirus, a fight he says could have gone either way.

Let's get out to Georgia now. That state has not seen a 14-day decrease in new cases as recommended by the White House Taskforce before states begin to reopen. But the governor is easing stay-at-home restrictions.

As of yesterday, nonessential businesses including gyms, salons, bowling alleys and more have been given the green light to open their doors to customers.

CNN's Natasha Chen is live in Douglasville, Georgia and joins us now. Natasha, how has this decision been received so far?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very mixed, as you can imagine, Ana, depending on the business and depending on their financial situation.

We did notice though, that there were some things in common with all of these small business owners. The ones we talked to who owned a bowling alley, as well as the barber shop, they were actually surprised that their type of business were in the first wave of businesses allowed to open. They really didn't think they would be first.

And then another similarity is that they have not gotten financial aid or grants that they've applied for, and so there is a huge amount of pressure to earn some kind of income, even though they know there is some health risks.

And so therefore, they're taking extreme measures to protect themselves and their customers. Here's what some of them said to us.


ERIC GREENSEN, BARBER WHO REOPENED BUSINESS ON FRIDAY: We haven't even peaked yet and we're reopening. So, we're kind of you know, we're scared about the whole thing, but everybody is scared basically.

But we're also afraid that if we don't open and the personnel is let go, and then we won't have business. So you know, if we don't it, somebody else will.


CHEN: So, you see, there's an absolute pressure there, too, about competition because somebody else may decide to open even if they decided to stay closed longer.

That particular Barber, Eric Greesen, he told us he has diabetes, so he is particularly concerned as well. They've marked off parts of the bench so that not a lot of people can sit on them. We see that they're disinfecting and trying to space people apart.

And of course on Monday, Ana, we are expecting some restaurants at least, to take advantage of the governor's order to reopen dine-in service. Now, a lot of them are saying that they're not ready for that, that it's too soon, but a handful of them as well as at least one large chain are saying they are willing to do that.

CABRERA: All right, Natasha Chen, thank you for that update. I hope you stay safe out there.

In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo said today that hospitalizations are down yet again, but numbers are nowhere near where he'd liked them to be and the death toll for the state has now just crossed 22,000 with more than 400 in just the past 24 hours.

The governor is vowing to ramp up both diagnostic and antibody testing especially for the state's healthcare workers and first responders.

CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro is in New York City. Evan, the governor says New York is on the downside of the mountain, but he emphasized the last few weeks have not been easy. What more are you learning?


EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, he said that the last few weeks have been hell, which is true. It's been a really tough time for New York, which has suffered so much during this pandemic.

What the governor was talking about was that hospitalization numbers for COVID are now down to where they were on April 4th, which is 21 days ago. But that's still very high. They're very high numbers, but they're going the right direction.

And so the governor is saying to everybody who is paying attention to him every day that he does his press conferences, look, this is really hard. Everybody knows it's hard. You know, you just had a story out of Georgia, people who are reopening their businesses because of their financial struggles. That's happening here, too.

Jobs are being lost. People are stuck at home. People are stressed out. But the governor is saying, listen, we're seeing some results from this lockdown and we need to keep it going. You need to just stick with it for a little bit while longer to see if we can get more of those positive numbers.

And you know, in addition to that, he is trying to ramp up testing here. We're going to have a program coming here in New York where drugstores will be made available for diagnostic testing.

Those tests will now be available for the first time to essential workers and not those old restrictions about having to have symptoms and things. Those will be gone for essential workers, and then also antibody testing for healthcare workers at the state's most affected hospitals.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We are back where we were 21 days ago, 21 days of hell. But we're back to where we were. What we need to find out is when we will back -- be back to the point where only several hundred people showed up at the hospitals every day with the COVID infection. That's what we want to see. We want to know how fast that decline continues and how low the decline gets.


SANTORO: So, those are the numbers that are the good signs and those numbers have come. The governor says, because people have obeyed this very tough stay-at-home order. And so, he is hoping that people continue to do that because that's how he gets control of this disease and those numbers keep going down -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Evan McMorris-Santoro. Thank you. Now to Southern California. Tens of thousands of people today are heading to the newly reopened beaches in that state. Let's go to CNN's Paul Vercammen in Newport Beach, California. Paul, what's happening there today? PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're having is our

first test here in Southern California, 18 million residents under a heat advisory in the middle of the COVID-19 crisis.

You'll see a police officer go by right behind me. They're checking with everybody here, and it looks like there's order here today, Ana, because they're observing the social distancing rules.

This is Newport Beach. It's been open. People are staying six feet away from other groups of people, but now, Orange County beaches are for the most part open.


BRIAN O'ROURKE, BATALLION CHIEF, NEWPORT BEACH LIFEGUARDS: We want people to come out and enjoy the beach, get some exercise, sunshine, get a break from what's going on in the world, but to do it in a very safe manner. So, we can't emphasize the social distancing part enough.


VERCAMMEN: And as we look at this, with this first heatwave since the outbreak, it's an interesting story of counties because we said, most of the beaches in Orange County are open. Very few deaths here for three million people. Then you see Los Angeles County, all beaches closed, lots of deaths.

And then Ventura County is also allowing people from the other counties to come to their beaches, just a handful of deaths really, so as California tries to come out of this in various different ways easing these restrictions, we are seeing some very different stories.

It sounds like at one point to me, these counties are all going to have to get on the same page and decide what the rules are going to be, so they don't put undue pressure on the counties that remain open.

San Diego County, by the way, will open up its beaches to some degree that's beginning on Monday -- Ana.

CABRERA: And it is looking like that beach behind you is getting more and more busy. It's hard to tell people are social distancing. Hopefully they are being responsible just staying enclose with their immediate family who they've been sheltering in place with and not mingling amongst each other.

Thank you, Paul Vercammen for your reporting.

In times of crisis, Americans look to the President for truth and compassion. Instead, President Trump is giving dangerous misinformation and assigning blame. Former White House Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci joins us live to discuss, next.


CABRERA: The Director of the Illinois Health Department is urging people not to use cleaning chemicals to try to kill the coronavirus after a surge in calls to Poison Control over the last couple of days. The Director says such calls included someone using a detergent-based solution as a sinus rinse and another person gargling a bleach and mouthwash mixture to try to kill germs.

The Director warns, quote, "Injecting, ingesting, snorting household cleaners is dangerous. It is not advised and can be deadly."

A source close to the White House Coronavirus Taskforce says President Trump is upset about quote, "flak" he is receiving over comments he made about ingesting -- injecting, I should say disinfectants such as bleach to possibly treat coronavirus.

This idea prompted statements from the C.D.C., the E.P.A., numerous state health officials and even the makers of Lysol and Clorox to warn, do not try this. It could kill.

Here's exactly what the President said during his Taskforce briefing on Thursday, and as you watch, I want you to pay attention to who he is speaking to and whether anything about his tone or his mannerisms or expressions suggests he is not serious.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous -- whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it.

And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body in which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that, too. It sounds interesting.

Right? And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that? By injection inside or almost a cleaning -- because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it will also be interesting to check that.


CABRERA: Check that, he says while looking to his right where Dr. Deborah Birx and Bill Bryan the acting Undersecretary of Science and Technology for the Department of Homeland Security are sitting.

He did not say check that to reporters. He did not appear to say check that sarcastically. So, keep this in mind, as you listen to what the President claimed less than 24 hours later when asked about his suggestion to inject disinfectant into the human body.


QUESTION: -- clarify your comments about injection of disinfectant or --

TRUMP: No, I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen. Now, disinfectant doing this maybe on the hands would work. And I was asking the question of the gentleman who was there yesterday, Bill, because when they say that something will last three, four hours or six hours.

But if the sun is out or if they use disinfectant, it goes away in less than a minute. Did you hear about this yesterday? But I was asking sarcastically -- and a very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside, but it does kill it and it would kill it on the hands and that would make things much better. That was done in the form of a sarcastic question to the reporters.


CABRERA: Right. Here to help us try to understand the President and this White House's decision making process is former White House Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci.

So, Anthony, the President didn't take any questions at yesterday's briefing. He's not holding a briefing today. Multiple sources tell CNN that some of his aides and allies are making a concerted effort to get the President to stop doing daily briefings all together.

If you were still in charge of White House communications, how would you handle this?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, Ana listen, I mean, of course, they're telling him to do that because he is creating a lot of damage for himself. The poll numbers are very bad.

If you go to Republican polls and you look at the question being asked, do you believe what the President is saying about the coronavirus? You know, less than half of the Republicans believe what he is saying about the coronavirus.

So, yes, certainly you've got to get him off that stage and you've got to get them to stop making statements like that.

But I think, you know, my heart goes out to the people that are around them, because when happens with him as you're talking to him he is in this little reality distortion field that's his own distortion field that he's not listening, or he does something that scares those people.

He gets very angry with them, and he starts to bully and intimidate them. And so what ends up happening is, everybody is walking on eggshells. Everybody is making face gestures to each other and just articulating with their hands and things like that. And they're not really helping him by saying, hey, you know, could you stop this, please?

And so, it's going to continue for a while because he likes the attention. So, I know they stopped it today, and they'll probably stop it tomorrow because it's a weekend.

But you know, four or five, six o'clock in the afternoon on cable is sort of primetime and I suspect he will be back out there next week. And listen, it's doing damage to him. But he does have a base, Ana,

that no matter what he says, no matter what he does, they are still going to stay with him because he is sort of their tribal leader.

CABRERA: Right. But hopefully, they won't listen to his idea, for example, injecting some kind of chemical into the body.

The President had originally pushed, you'll recall hydroxychloroquine. Now, he's asking about bleach and sunlight. I mean, does it just seems like the President is hoping for a miracle cure to get them out of this?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think this is the thing that's really gotten him because you know, he can't yell at CNN or the media and fake science. You know, he's up there trying to tell people that two plus two equals seven. They can see on their own hands that it equals four. And so it's a real problem for him.

It's one thing when you're out in a rally and you're saying fake news, or it's one thing when you're trying to curve something that you said that can be seen as somewhat subjective, but these are objective facts.

You know, there are clinical studies. He's got Dr. Anthony Fauci up there telling people it doesn't work or it's too soon to tell or he wouldn't recommend it. And he's overriding him because he wants to curve the reality of the situation to a reality that he would like it to be.

And you know, he's done that for 45 years. He did that during the campaign. He's done that at points during the presidency. But this is science, Ana, and so you can't fake science and you can't yell fake science.


CABRERA: I have to ask you, though, because we've seen the President try to have it both ways. One day, he is tweeting for states to be liberated. The next, he is publicly saying he disagrees with the Governor of Georgia for reopening his state.

Is there a strategy to this in the sense that no matter the ending, he gets to claim he was right because he took both sides or is this just proof he has no strategy?

SCARAMUCCI: No, no. That's definitely the strategy. You know, it's a two-minute offense, and it's an expectation that people have a 14-day memory and so, you know, he was right about the pandemic. He knew that it was always going to be a pandemic, and even though he is on tape saying something totally different.

He is hoping he can push that agenda and that narrative as much as possible. It's even the same thing with the Kimball Young situation. He's trying to cast doubt on what is actually going on. So, people don't know if he's passed away yet or not. But it's the President trying to disturb people's idea of what's

coming out of the media. So, they start questioning facts. And so that is definitely part of his strategy. And I will tell you that at times, that strategy has worked, but it doesn't work with science, and I think that's what's got him so perplexed right now.

CABRERA: Well, it doesn't make the coronavirus go away and we all have to deal with the true health effects and impact of all of this.

You've worked at Goldman Sachs. There's obviously an economic impact to all of this. You founded your own investment firm. So, I want to ask you about the economy for a moment. It's in trouble right now. More than 26 million Americans have filed unemployment claims in just the past five weeks. That is the population of Australia.

You previously said you think the market bottomed out in March. Do you still believe that?

SCARAMUCCI: I do. I think that the Federal Reserve injection of capital, they put $1.7 trillion of capital to work in the last four or five weeks, they're going to inject another $250 billion a week, it will probably go up to $4 trillion, if not more than that.

I think the size of the stimulus, if you really study the stimulus, and the magnitude of that, I think will really boost the economy once we can come out of our houses.

And so, if you do all the math and the stimulus, it's roughly between $10 trillion and $12 trillion, and if you look at what the economic output loss was Ana, it's about $3.7 trillion.

So if people can stay patient, I believe the other side of this thing, you'll see the economy returning to its 2019 fourth quarter GDP print, probably by the first or second quarter of next year.

And so listen, a lot of people got this wrong. I got it wrong. Our investment firm is down. We're having a pretty strong rally in April. But listen, this is -- this has been perplexing to a lot of people.

CABRERA: All right, Anthony Scaramucci.

SCARAMUCCI: I am confident though on the other side. Good to be here. Thank you.

CABRERA: OK, let's end on that high note. Let's end on the high note. Thank you and be well.

Another Federal agency is warning about two drugs often touted by President Trump as potential coronavirus treatments. The FDA says the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine can result in serious side effects and possible death.

And yet for weeks, the President and rightwing media have touted them as possible game changers in the fight against coronavirus.

HBO's John Oliver looks back at how it may have started. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN OLIVER, HBO: Take hydroxychloroquine, it is a drug commonly used for conditions like rheumatoid arthritis and lupus and it got a huge boost in mid-March as a potential coronavirus treatment from Tucker Carlson's show.


TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Early evidence suggests that chloroquine -- that's a cheap antimalarial drug may be effective in treating coronavirus. Gregory Rigano is an adviser at the Stanford University School of Medicine, and he joins us tonight.

GREGORY RIGANO, ADVISER, STANFORD UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: A well-controlled, peer-reviewed study carried out by the most eminent infectious disease specialist in the world showed a 100 percent cure rate against coronavirus.

CARLSON: I only know what you're telling me. But I do know it's very unusual for a study of anything to produce results of a hundred percent. I mean that that's remarkable, isn't it? Or am I missing something?


OLIVER: Oh, you're very much missing something, Tucker. For starters, that man's role as an adviser to Stanford University was news to Stanford who since clarified, Gregory Rigano is not an adviser with their School of Medicine and no one at Stanford was involved in the study.

As for that 100 percent cure rate, you should know, they obtained that by admitting three patients who were transferred to an ICU and one patient who died.


CABRERA: I'll ask a doctor about the truth about these drugs, next.


CABRERA: With all the anxiety we already feel during this pandemic, add this. The World Health Organization is now warning that people who have had COVID-19 are not necessarily protected from getting the virus again.

The W.H.O. stresses no studies have been done to prove or disprove immunity, so people should proceed with caution.

Joining us now is Dr. William Schaffner, Professor at the division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center and Dr. James Phillips CNN medical analyst and physician at George Washington University Hospital.

Thank you both for being here. [18:30:10]

Dr. Phillips, the WHO put out this warning acknowledging immunity to coronavirus hasn't really been studied but without the information to this further delay plans for reopening because if we've all been operating with this idea of knowing who has been previously infected makes them protected in some way, doesn't this just throw that out the window?

JAMES PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's certainly going to complicate things if we don't get that data soon and if it's not favorable. So what's important to keep in mind from this is the statement is it doesn't say that people aren't immune, it just says that we don't have any proof.

So I'm still hopeful that we're going to find that a large number of people are immune after they've convalesced from this disease, but we don't know that yet. What's been shown in some studies is that the level of protective antibodies in the blood varies between people who have gotten over the disease.

And so just because you have antibody you may not have enough to prevent reinfection. The difficulty in these antibody test that we have now is that they don't necessarily measure the amount. It's more of a yes no answer.

CABRERA: Dr. Schaffner, CDC Director Robert Redfield warned this week that a second wave of coronavirus come the fall, for example, could be more difficult for the U.S. healthcare system. Have there been other corona viruses in which people aren't immune after being infected?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIV. OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, let's start with the fact that there are four corona virus strains that infect humans regularly. They just produce colds. But they've been studied fairly carefully and it would appear that if you've been infected with one of them, you do have protection, but after about a year, it starts to wane.

But that protection for a year would be very important if it applied to COVID-19, because it would bridge us until such time as we would get a vaccine and then we could all get vaccinated and get protect. And, of course, as with many vaccines, we might have to get more than one dose down the road.

CABRERA: And so I'm here to ask you my next question specifically about finding a vaccine because the chief medical officer in the U.K. warned that this news on immunity could mean it's possible we may never have a vaccine. Listen to this.


CHRISTOPHER WHITTY, U.K. CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: The first question we do not actually know is do you get natural immunity to this disease for a prolonged period of time. Now, if we don't, that doesn't make a vaccine impossible, but it makes it much less likely and we simply don't know that yet. There's a little bit of evidence of some people may have been

reinfected with this having had a previous infection. That's a slightly concerning situation.

And certainly some other corona viruses immunity wanes relatively quickly, so we need to be careful. We don't assume that we will have a vaccine for this disease as we have for, let's say, measles, which once you have it, you're protective for life. We may or we may not, but we need to be absolutely clear about that.


CABRERA: Dr. Schaffner, what is the likelihood of no vaccine?

SCHAFFNER: Well, I think that's a very low likelihood actually. And I think that Dr. Phillips or our British colleague and I are all saying the same thing. There's lots we don't know, but we anticipate that there will be some immunity and that we will develop a vaccine that will work. Although, as I said, we may need to get boosters every several years, for example.

CABRERA: Dr. Phillips, the vast majority of the people who are dying from this coronavirus had pre existing conditions. There was a report this week from doctors in New York saying the novel corona virus appears to be causing sudden strokes in adults in their 30s and 40s who are not otherwise terribly ill. Are you finding that as well and what do you attribute that to?

PHILLIPS: This is a very interesting virus and we're going to continue to discover new things about it as we learn more. What we detected early on and even the Chinese had discussed this in their early studies as there appear to be some derangements within the blood caused by the virus. And in particular, it appears that it's causing us to be more prone to develop clots within our bloodstream and those clots can do several things.

If they're small, they may be the cause of some of the severe lung disease that we're seeing with this. It may also be the cause of some of the kidney failure that's happening in ICU patients. To a degree it may also be affecting the heart.

Now, we may also get these clots in large blood vessels as well. And when those large blood vessels involve the brain, that's what a stroke is. And in New York alone, they've seen a seven fold increase in the number of strokes that occur in people under the age of 50.

Now, the average age for a stroke is somewhere around 74, 75 years of age. So to see that dramatic increase is worrisome and all of those patients were COVID positive. So the blood derangements are something we're going to continue to study.


We're starting to use blood thinners in our sickest patients to try to counteract that and so stay tuned. I think we're going to find more data about this, but it is certainly worrisome. CABRERA: And Dr. Phillips, are younger patients experiencing different

symptoms than older patients?

PHILLIPS: They tend to experience less severe symptoms and they do experience them less frequently. So for adults, I believe, the most recent data shows about 70 percent, 75 percent of adults get a cough, around the same number develop a fever.

But in pediatric patients, those under 18, those percentages are significantly smaller, and usually less severe. And my biggest question is how many of the younger folks are walking around without any symptoms at all? And are they maybe one of the primary ways that this disease spreads? We're not sure yet because we don't have that surveillance testing out there.

CABRERA: All right. Right, Dr. James Phillips and Dr. William Schaffner, I really appreciate you both joining us. Thank you for sharing your experience and expertise.

SCHAFFNER: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Be well. As some states allow certain businesses to reopen, it's forcing owners to make difficult decisions about whether to reopen. And I'll speak with a Georgia salon owner who decided to reopen, but what she's doing to try to keep her employees and patrons safe.



CABRERA: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp's decision to allow some businesses in the state to reopen has put owners in a difficult spot, having to decide whether they in fact will reopen their businesses and what precautions to put in place to keep themselves and their employees and their patrons all safe. One of those is Sabra Dupree who joins us now.

And Sabra, you own Kids Kuts Salon in Marietta, Georgia. You decided to reopen your business yesterday. First, how is it working out for you and what are you finding as the biggest challenges so far?

SABRA DUPREE, OWNER OF KIDS KUTS SALON IN MARIETTA, GA: This was our second day open and, first of all, thank you for having me here. I appreciate you letting me voice our opinion here. Our Friday was slow to say the least and then today was slow as well.

And we don't mind being slow. I feel like we really just want to implement the protocol on how to reopen salons right now.

CABRERA: And what does that look like? What sort of precautions have you put in place and how did you even know what to do, given there's no playbook for a situation like this?

DUPREE: No, there isn't. Not at all. I'm about two weeks into this when I realized that this wasn't a joke and it wasn't going to go away, we really took the time to sit down, my husband and I, and say, OK, how are we going to open when this all works out.

So what we did was we went into that salon and I've been there for 21 years. We took everything out of it and we replaced only what we needed. That was our first thing. We sanitized everything, touched every wall, every baseboard, everything in that salon and cleaned it completely.

Again, instead of eight stations, we put back six stations. Three on each side and we repainted. We took the poorest countertop out and we put granite countertops in so that we open. We were able to clean and sanitize much better than we were before.

CABRERA: But beyond that, now that you have clients, how are you able to maintain social distancing and keeping yourself and your client protected?

DUPREE: So first and foremost is to keep my staff protected and then to keep the client protected as well. So we do have masks, the client is required to wear a mask. We don't have a receptionist anymore. We don't need that extra body in that spot, so you book online.

When the client (inaudible) to the salon, they have to stop at the front door, get a temperature check. There's questions that are involved like have you been out of the country or have you been around anyone that's sick, have you been sick yourself. If they can pass getting through the front door, they're invited to come in, sit down and not touch anything.

They leave all of their personal belongings in their vehicle or at home. We now choose to pay electronically through Venmo or trying to stay away from the cash so that we don't touch anything. But if we do touch something, we put gloves on at the register and we simply just sanitize everything.

We sanitize the chairs when you leave, we sanitize our stations. There's nothing in the stations anymore and I feel like that's going to be the protocol for moving forward to (inaudible) salons as well.

CABRERA: I know you're following the direction of the Governor who says you can reopen.

DUPREE: Absolutely.

CABRERA: You obviously need to make a living and you deserve that. Still, a lot of other businesses have chosen to wait. They don't want to take the risk. I want you to hear from Atlanta's Mayor whose mother was a salon owner.



MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D), ATLANTA: She did. And I shampooed hair in that salon many a day and not once was I able to do it from six feet. And in talking to my mother, my mother said there is no way in the world I would go and stand over a customer right now.

But I also recognize this would have been devastating for my mother financially. It would have been devastating for our family. But my mother would also say to me, you got to live to fight another day. And so I recognize that people are hurting financially, but it is not worth putting your life and the lives of your children and your family at risk.



CABRERA: Sabra, I feel for you and anyone who has to make a decision like this. Can you take us inside --

DUPREE: I definitely think I would have liked that lady.


DUPREE: I definitely think she's very old school. Yes, she's old school and I do appreciate that. I love that about her.

CABRERA: But what went into your decision when you're weighing these two competing factors in some way? There's like your livelihood and that of your employees, but there's also the lives ...

DUPREE: Yes. And it wasn't taken lightly.

CABRERA: Right. So how did you make that choice?

DUPREE: It wasn't taken lightly. So my staff is actually split, Ana. We have to Lauren (ph) and Shiraz (ph) won't be back for a while. They have young children at home. They have children at home. And then the other side of the staff, they're all gung ho to go back.

Just as long as they feel comfortable standing, we have a backwash, so we actually stand a little more to the side in the back of the shampoo area and we created because we do not want to take anything from first responders. We created a simple fix for shampoo, for instance.

I wish I had it here because I'd love to show you, I think I did send a shot. You know the headbands?


DUPREE: We took a sheet protector. We fed it through the headband and that's what you put on your face, so that plastic goes right here.

CABRERA: Well, we see that. Yes.

DUPREE: (Inaudible) your mask on. So again, we're coming up with creative ideas to protect ourselves and to protect our clients. Because as you know and as everybody knows that my clients were (inaudible) good as my staff and I love my clients because my clients make me who I am. So going into this thinking about it, how do we do this? Do we even

approach it? For us, financially, that's not an option for 1099s right now as of today, 1099s don't get the - PPP doesn't cover the 1099s. I haven't gotten the PPP. I filed it extremely early on the SBA loan.

And for us, we're small business, I'm taking a good $25,000, $30,000 a month hit here and I'm OK. We're OK. We're going to go back, whether we take another month off or not, we will be open. But financially for my stylists, it's not so much of an option.

CABRERA: I hear you. Sabra, this is such a tough situation. I wish you the very best. Thank you for taking time and explaining to us as we all work through this next step in this situation we're in, how you are doing it and doing your best to stay safe. We wish you well. Thank you.

DUPREE: Thank you.

CABRERA: This week, we've seen demonstrations across the country as people protest against the stay-at-home orders. So do state or local governments have any legal power to enforce these orders? CNN's Elie Honig is here next to answer all of your legal questions. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.



CABRERA: This week, President Trump signed an executive order to stop some immigrants from entering the United States, specifically those seeking green cards for the next 60 days. Let's get to CNN Legal Analyst Elie Honig for our weekly cross exam segment.

Elie, one viewer wants to know will President Trump's executive order limiting immigration during this coronavirus crisis survive if challenged in federal court.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So Ana, it's very likely we will see a lawsuit challenging this new action by President Trump. The New York Attorney General has said that she is ready to take legal action.

We've seen cases before with groups of state AGs have banded together and challenged the President's immigration policies. But that's going to be an uphill climb, because courts generally recognize that the President has broad authority over immigration policy and enforcement. They don't like to second guess the President on that kind of matter.

Now, the closest recent case was in 2018 when the Supreme Court upheld the Trump travel ban. Now, in that case, the Supreme Court applied what's called rational basis review and that's just a legal term meaning. They don't ask is this good policy or the best policy. They just asked is this policy somehow legitimately related to a government interest.

Now, that was a five-four decision upholding the case. I think we're likely to see a similar outcome here. So it's a very important decision. We're going to watch it, but I think given the court's composition at the moment, it's unlikely that they'll strike down this new anti immigration policy from Trump.

CABRERA: Elie, a lot of people are also asking about those stay-at- home orders. Some states are starting to ease restrictions and open back up. Others are extending their lockdowns. One viewer asks, if people disobeyed stay home and quarantine orders, does the government actually have legal power to enforce them?

HONIG: Yes. It's really important that people understand this. These stay-at-home orders, quarantine orders, they are not just made up by governors out of thin air. They are backed by law. Every one of the 50 states has a law on the books, empowering governors to issue this kind of order and they have real teeth. Violations are punishable by fines and in about half of the states by potential arrest and prosecution.

And indeed, Ana, across the country we've seen police issue thousands of citations and prosecutions in some instances. And I think the Governor of Maryland Larry Hogan put it best when he said we're not playing around so please take these orders seriously. They are backed by law and they are enforceable.

CABRERA: Elie Honig, great information. Thank you and be well.

DUPREE: Thanks, Ana.


CABRERA: And don't forget you can submit your own legal questions at That does it for me. I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you for joining me and my colleague. Wolf Blitzer takes over CNN's coverage in a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM after a quick break. Have a good night.



WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a Special Edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

Now, as of tonight, there are now more than 933,000 cases of coronavirus here in the United States and more than 53,000 Americans have died from the disease.