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Some States Pushing Forward With Reopening Plans; Wisconsin To Remain Shut Down Until At Least May 26th; Interview With Mayor Bo Dorough Of Albany, Georgia On Reopening The State; Contradictory Messages On Recovery From White House Economic Advisers; WHO: Currently No Evidence" Proving COVID-19 Survivors Have Immunity; Fauci: Not Overly Confident About Nation's Current Testing Capacity. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 26, 2020 - 16:00   ET



ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Let's skip to the very update.

The number of cases of coronavirus in the United States has topped 950,000 and more than 54,000 people have died. Just one month ago, the death toll was just over 1,000. That means 53,000 mothers, fathers, friends, neighbors have died in just the last 30 days.

But across the country, states are pushing forward with reopening plans. Tomorrow, restaurants will welcome customers again in Georgia and Tennessee. Cash registers will be ringing again at stores in Colorado, Minnesota, and Montana. And elective surgeries will resume in Arkansas and Iowa.

But in other states, the wait continues. The governor of New Jersey revealing today they are still several, several weeks away from reopening because of the staggering death toll there. More than all the New Jersey residents lost in World War I, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War combined. And in New York City, the mayor announcing a number of different groups, advisory councils, task forces, and a commission to get the country's largest city back to work. They'll begin meeting in May and come up with a preliminary plan by June 1st.

Meantime, from the White House today, mixed messages on the state of the U.S. economy. One official, economic adviser, Kevin Hassett, says the situation is grave and we are facing unemployment rates rivaling the Great Depression. The other, Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin, says the economy should start to bounce back by summer.

Christine Romans will join us for a reality check on that, but first, let's go out west. Let's head to Colorado, one of the states experimenting a gradual return to something resembling normal or maybe a new normal.

CNN's Gary Tuchman is in Greeley, Colorado, and Gary, the database that we use here at CNN shows about 13,000 cases of coronavirus in that state, in Colorado, yet the governor is relaxing some quarantine restrictions. What's this going to look like? GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, I know you've

spent a lot of time here in Colorado. You know the people are very independent. And that will be reflected upon the steps that are happening tomorrow because each of the 64 counties in the state can have adjust the steps that the governor is now recommending. And here's what he's recommending. It's very confusing. Most Coloradans don't even know this. But let's try to lay it out for you.

Starting tomorrow morning, businesses will be allowed to reopen, retail businesses, but they will have to give you your goods on the curbside. You can't go in the businesses. And that's as long as they follow safety patrols. That's it for tomorrow. Then starting Friday, on May 1st, those businesses, those retail businesses, you'll be able to go inside if they still are following the safety protocols. And also, barbershops, hair salons, massage therapists, manicurists, other personal care businesses will be allowed to open on Friday.

Restaurants and bars are not part of this deal right now. But as I was saying, each county can make their own decisions. For example, Denver, which is south of us, is staying conservative. They're not reopening anything tomorrow. But this county where we are right now, Weld County, which is north of Denver, Greeley, which is the county seat, they want to open more than the governor is saying.

You're supposed to ask for a waiver if you want to open more. They haven't asked for that waiver yet. So it's a little unclear how this is going to work out. But right here, this is the place that's called the Barber Shop. That's the name of it, the Barber Shop. It's a barbershop. And this barbershop is planning to reopen tomorrow.

Just a couple of hours ago, we were here when cleaning crews arrived, sanitation cleaning crews. They specialize in COVID cleaning. And they were dressed like they were in the movie "Ghostbusters." They came inside and they sprayed this place down. They're going to come back tomorrow before it opens.

But we want to give you a look inside of what it looks like. This is a fancy barbershop. It has a bar, which will not be reopened. It also had a pool table that was right here. That pool table is gone in order to create spacing. But the owner of this barbershop, Jose Oregel, is right over here. He's made the decision to reopen based on what his county commissioners are guiding him. They're saying it's OK, so he feels comfortable with it even though the governor doesn't feel it's OK.

Jose, why do you feel you need to open this up so soon?

JOSE OREGEL, OWNER, THE BARBER SHOP: Well, I've got a family to feed. I've got bills to pay. And haven't been forced or anything like that, but since my county is saying that I can open up, I'm going to open up and work.

TUCHMAN: And don't take it personally, but I'm standing six feet away from you with my long arms at the microphone because that's what we're supposed to be doing. But do you feel safe for your employees and for your customers? OREGEL: Yes, I feel very safe. We got the place checked out twice to

be able to get sanitized. We're all going to wear face masks, gloves, a cape for every customer. So we've got everything pretty covered on our side.

TUCHMAN: Jose, thank you so much for talking to me. I appreciate it.

OREGEL: Thank you.

TUCHMAN: So the guidelines are confusing. We'll see how it all shakes out tomorrow in Colorado -- Ana.

CABRERA: Yes. It will be interesting to watch. All of these states are in a bit of an experiment given we've never been down this path before.

Gary Tuchman, thank you for that reporting.

And now to a state with no plans to begin reopening at least within the next month.


Wisconsin, the governor there extended his stay-at-home order until the end of May. And that is not sitting well with people going public with their anger and frustration. People who say they are watching their livelihoods disappear.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Milwaukee, and Miguel, let's take a look at the trend there in Wisconsin. It's the number of new cases of coronavirus over the past 14 days. Those cases are rising at least in the past few days. Tell us how this shutdown is impacting the economy there and what is the outlook for a return to all systems go in Wisconsin?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, a couple of things to say to that. So that graphic you showed of the cases now rising, it is about two weeks to the day that they had that controversial primary here where the legislature forced a primary in person, whereas the governor wanted it to be by mail only, and extend the time that people could send in their ballots.

There have been several cases linked probably directly to the primary itself, but now that you're seeing numbers statewide, they were going down before that primary, two weeks later, they are going up after that primary. And that is the situation that governments everywhere face and the economy here, it's taking a hit like it's never seen before, from the agricultural industry to the manufacturing industry, which is the backbone of this state, to retail and travel and hospitality.

We spoke to one economist who can track in real time sort of what economic activity is across the state. They do that by looking at 50,000 different locations and the cell phone traffic around those areas. They're looking at a 50 percent decrease across the board in economic activity across the state. There's also one state study that says that unemployment here could hit 27 percent. That is one in four, more than one in four workers, at the worst. In the great recession, unemployment here was just under 10 percent -- Ana.

CABRERA: Wow, I know the governor there is saying that they are expecting more than $2 billion economic hit because of this pandemic.

Miguel Marquez, thank you for your reporting.

In Georgia tomorrow, restaurants will be allowed to reopen for dining in. Just a couple of days after the governor allowed operations to resume at barbershops, nail salons, gyms, and even bowling alleys in that state. This despite the fact Georgia has not seen a 14-day downward trajectory in cases.

The decision took many mayors and other local leaders by surprise, including the mayor of Albany, Georgia, a town that drew national headlines after it became a hot spot for coronavirus cases, linked to the funerals of two men in February and March, crowds of people attended, and soon after, the virus hit like a bomb. The counties seeing more than 1400 cases. And the main hospital so overrun with sick and dying patients that dozens of National Guard members were called in to back up the staff.

And the mayor of Albany, Georgia, Bo Dorough, is joining us live now.

Mayor, your community has been through so much. How does everyone there feel about these reopening orders?

MAYOR BO DOROUGH, ALBANY, GEORGIA: Well, obviously, we were upset that the governor did not allow us to continue our shelter-in-place ordinance, but our citizens are generally going to be guided by the environment that we're in. And we're finding that most churches have no plans to reinstitute worship services at this time. Most of our restaurants will continue to offer only curbside and delivery.

CABRERA: So I know you've petitioned the governor once more to allow you to put in place stricter measures. Have you heard back? What has his response been?

DOROUGH: I think it's the position of the governor that we need to have a uniform regulation throughout the whole state. But the governor's office has assured the local elected officials here in Albany and elsewhere that if there is a spike in infections, the state will dispatch whatever resources are necessary to bring it under control.

CABRERA: Now, you have advised residents to continue sheltering in place. And you say it looks like a lot of them are following suit, but have any businesses reopened?

DOROUGH: Yes, I mean, your guest who spoke earlier. People are in a financial strait. They've got to make a decision, they've got to support their family. And unfortunately, some of the assistance from the federal government has been slower than expected, but that is a decision that these individuals have the right to make and the only thing the city is going to do is make sure that they're complying with the guidelines imposed by the governor.

CABRERA: And are they so far?

DOROUGH: Well, as I said, it was -- we're only opened up for couple of days. I think that a lot of these businesses, bowling alleys, beauty shops, barbershops were not aware of the guidelines because they didn't come out for quite frankly until after the close of business on Thursday night.


And it's my understanding that some businesses which intended to open up are reconsidering in view of the guidelines.

CABRERA: Mayor, Albany, Georgia, your city, is the hardest hit area per capita in Georgia. Why do you think your city and the areas around it have been hit so hard?

DOROUGH: Well, I can't say that. That's a medical question. It's not really my concern at this point in time. But --

CABRERA: But have you been talking with the medical experts and health experts?

DOROUGH: Oh, yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. There were those two funerals that were mentioned earlier than have been mentioned. But what you had was on April 29th, the first of those funerals, the same day that our president said this was a Democratic hoax, we had numerous people infected, who thereafter infected scores of people, who in turn infected hundreds of more people. So we have had to deal with this crisis. And so the calls of the spread, Ana, is, quite frankly, secondary at this point in time. We've been all hands on deck since day one.

CABRERA: I wonder if the demographics of that region have anything to do with it because experts have been very worried about the effects of coronavirus on rural areas, where there is a lack of medical care available per capita. What impact has that had in your region during this pandemic?

DOROUGH: Well, I mean, if you look at a map of the state, Ana, and I'm glad you asked that question, first, the high rate of infection was concentrated here in Albany and Darden County. And gradually it spreads out to our surrounding counties in these rural areas. And this has exposed some of our counties with less than 10,000 people have had 24 deaths. I mean, this is terrible. Access to medical care in these areas is limited.

Most of the communities that still have hospitals, they don't have the ability to provide the critical care that is necessary. And this, I'm afraid, could be the next wave of the pandemic. That is in rural America.

CABRERA: Finally, Mayor, what is it that your city needs right now?

DOROUGH: Well, fortunately, I do appreciate the fact that the state government has provided us with resources throughout this, and we are about to have online universal testing, which is -- I don't know if it's available anywhere in the country, so that anybody that wants to be tested can come in and be tested. As we know, that is one of the concerns about reopening that we don't have adequate testing throughout the state. So we are fortunate in that regard. But --

CABRERA: When is that supposed to happen?

DOROUGH: It's actually possibly opening up today. It's the National Guard and what's happened, Ana, throughout the state and most of the country is only a limited number of people could be tested.


DOROUGH: Initially, they were relying on testing kits. But gradually, as testing becomes more and more available, but I think we've got the cart before the horse here, because that testing should have been in place statewide before we had such a broad recension of the executive order.

CABRERA: Well, Albany Mayor Bo Dorough, thank you for taking the time to speak with us and shedding light on the situation for your city and your community. We wish you all the very best. Hope you stay safe --

DOROUGH: And Ana, can I say one thing?


DOROUGH: I've been asked to express on behalf of the people of Albany and Southwest Georgia our profound gratitude for the support and concern that's been expressed by others throughout the country in recent weeks. Thank you.

CABRERA: I think we're all in this together. That can't be sad enough. Thank you again for joining us today.

Two different tones coming from the White House on the outlook for the economy. One adviser expressing optimism while the other warns the strain could reach depression-era levels. So who's right?

Plus, a challenge to help those in need during this outbreak has gone viral. And celebrities are stepping in, including Deejay Khaled, who we will talk to later live in the CNN NEWSROOM.



CABRERA: How devastating will the coronavirus pandemic be to the U.S. economy? Depends on who you ask. Even within the same White House administration, the tones by top officials are anything but consistent. Here's Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett just this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: You know, I think that the next couple of months are going to be terrible. You're going to see numbers that are as bad as anything that we've ever seen. We're going to be looking at an unemployment rate that approaches rates that we saw during the Great Depression.

STEVEN MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY: I think as we begin to reopen the economy in May and June, you're going to see the economy really bounce back in July, August, September. We've never seen anything like this. This is not the financial crisis.


CABRERA: CNN Chief Business Correspondent Christine Romans joins us now.

Christine, what do you make of these what appear to be opposing outlooks coming from one administration? Can they both be right?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They could both be right, potentially, but what you have here is the Treasury secretary who's trying to sell the big rescue in the stimulus and get the money going to try to plug the holes in the economy. He's looking forward in trying to project confidence, right? Because confidence is so important here.

But Kevin Hassett is looking at the numbers and he's absolutely right. We are already in depression-level conditions in the United States. We've had 26.5 million people lose their jobs in just five weeks. During the entire great recession, it was eight million or nine million jobs lost, and that took months. You're going to see a GDP number in the second quarter that's going to be devastating. Not like anything in modern times you've seen. It's going to be depression level.

The difference is, though, this isn't the depression. We have a safety net and we have Congress that has spent all this money and maybe is in the beginning innings of spending that money to try to cushion the blow, put the foam on the runway, as one of the metaphors from the Great Recession, so that we can cushion the blow and get back to work eventually.


We are doing this on purpose and we have all of this money at our fingertips to try to fix it. But here's the problem. The money isn't going -- getting there quickly enough. Right? You have small businesses who are now six weeks into this and are really having some trouble. You have jobless Americans who still can't get their jobless benefits to them yet. So we have asked America to stop working, but we haven't given them the money yet to cushion that.

CABRERA: In fact, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today addressed how much funding on the federal level is actually reaching state and local governments. Let's listen.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Cuomo says he would have insisted on state funding in the last bill. And now Senator McConnell is saying he wants to push the pause button. Was this a tactical mistake by you and Senator Schumer?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Just calm down. We will have state and local, and we will have it in a very significant way. It's no use going on to what might have been. State and local have done their jobs magnificently. They should be impatient. Their impatience will help us get an even bigger number.

TAPPER: Right.


CABRERA: Christine, will that explanation be sufficient for these frustrated state officials?

ROMANS: They are frustrated. It's unclear, really. I mean, when you look at how much less money is coming into these states. I mean, every paycheck that is gone is taxes that are gone. Every transaction that doesn't happen is sales taxes that don't go to the state coffers. And these states still have to pay firefighters and teachers and schools and police forces. So they have to have the money coming in.

Otherwise, society can't function on the state level. So this is a really important next step here, I think, for Congress in terms of bailouts.

CABRERA: OK, Christine Romans, we know you will be watching closely. Thank you.

After the president's remarks about UV rays in the battle against coronavirus, one workplace is using UV body scanners to try to sanitize for the virus. But does it really work? And could it even be harmful?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.



CABRERA: In the wake of the president's very controversial remarks about using sunlight to treat coronavirus, one businessman is also facing controversy for marketing UV lighting scanners resembling metal detectors as a body scanning sanitation method for employees. The creator of this one says it safely uses ultraviolet light to kill bacteria and viruses on shoes and clothing, but scientists have raised concern. It will give people a false sense of security or might even be harmful.

I want to turn to Dr. Darria Long, emergency physician and assistant clinical professor at the University of Tennessee, and Dr. Megan Ranney, she is an emergency physician at Brown University. Dr. Long, what should people know about these UV scanners?

DR. DARRIA LONG, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: Hi, Ana. So what they're talking about here, most of us are familiar with UVA and UVB. It's what causes sunburns and skin cancer. What they're talking about in these germicidal -- these machines that kill germs is UVC, which is a different wavelength. It's much stronger.

Now it has been used in hospitals and on equipment and in public spaces, but it's really important that it's used in spaces where humans are not nearby, because UVC can actually damage tissue in just seconds. So we don't use it on people for that reason.

Now there are some recent studies that there are some shorter wavelengths, not too get too technical, that may not be as damaging and injurious to people, but there's just not enough research yet. So UVA and UVB may not be effective on COVID. UVC may be too damaging to human tissue. And let's remember, it does no good to kill the virus if you in the process risk killing the person carrying the virus.

CABRERA: Exactly. Dr. Rani, if anyone out there thinks going to a tanning bed or sunbathing will somehow protect them from coronavirus, what would you tell them?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: I would tell them, listen, go and get sun, go get outside, it's good for your mental health. It gives you a little vitamin D, but a tanning bed or sunbathing is not going to kill COVID. It is not a safe or recommended technique. And we as doctors always tell people, wear sunscreen when you're out.

We have huge problems with skin cancer in this country, and if we have more people exposing themselves to direct sunlight, we're going to have a different public health problem on our hands.

CABRERA: This morning, Dr. Birx reacted to a World Health Organization briefing which said there isn't enough evidence to prove COVID-19 survivors are protected from a second infection. Watch.


DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: WHO is being very cautious. I think what WHO was saying, we don't know how long that effective antibody lasts. And then I think that is a question that we have to explore over the next few months and over the next few years.


CABRERA: Dr. Long, this lack of clarity on immunity, is this something scientists expected to be working through at this stage, or is this unusual?

LONG: Ana, I'm not surprised. I mean, let's remember, this virus just emerged in December. We're only dealing with about four to five months of people having had the virus at all. And I agree with Dr. Birx, what she said, in that we don't have evidence but we can expect what we think will happen. And we know that people with SARS and MERS had immunity for about two to three years. We know that the flu can give you immunity for that specific strain.

So we can expect that there is at least some short-term period of immunity.


And that if you do get sick again, you'll likely not be as sick the second time.

One thing that's a really big question -- and I think this is where the W.H.O. is bringing it up -- is that we don't know if you get sick a second time how contagious are you.

ANA CABRERA: So, when would you expect more of a definitive answer on this immunity issue?

DR. LONG: So, to have a more definitive answer, we're going to have to wait until there have been enough people -- thousands of people -- who have had COVID, have convalesced and gotten better, tested negative from it, and then we follow them with surveillance and testing to see if they get sick again, and then if they are sick, how much virus are they shedding and how contagious are they? That's when we start to get some real answers and not just theoretical because we're just theoretical right now.

CABRERA: Right. Dr. Ranney, if a second infection is possible, will a vaccine still work?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, LIFESPAN/BROWN UNIVERSITY: So, we have a lot of questions about a vaccine and about those antibody tests in general. To go off of what Dr. Long said, we don't even know about the accuracy of those antibody tests that are being used right now, which was another part of the W.H.O's comments was that, yes, you test positive or you test negative. We don't know if it's accurate, if it's really measuring immunity in your body.

Now, we are hoping that we'll have a vaccine, but we don't know how long it's going to be until we have one, and we don't know how long a vaccine would work. Now, most of us are used to getting a flu vaccine every year, but most of us have only gotten a polio vaccine or measles, mumps, rubella in our childhood.

We don't yet know whether if a COVID-19 vaccine is created, is it going to be more like the flu that we get every year, or is it going to be more like one those really long-lasting vaccines that we can get once and be done.

There are so many questions that we're going to figure out over the next 3, 6, 12 months about virus. As Dr. Long said, it is brand-new. Scientists are working as quickly as they can, but we just don't have definitive answers yet.

CABRERA: And those answers can't come soon enough for all of us. Dr. Ranney and Dr. Long, I really appreciate both of you being here. Your expertise is so vital and we are grateful for your time. Thank you.

The coronavirus death toll continues to rise. The president is becoming increasingly erratic in his dealings with the press. Coming up, legendary journalist, Carl Bernstein joins us live. That's next.



CABRERA: President Trump has not formally addressed the American people this weekend, apart from tweets, and now he says the coronavirus task force briefings are no longer worth his time or effort if the media is going to ask what he claims are hostile questions.

This, of course, follows criticisms as well as ridicule after the president suggested that the coronavirus could be treated by injecting or ingesting disinfectants like bleach. The remarks alarmed pretty much anyone who knows that drinking or injecting bleach can kill. And sources tell CNN, the president's closest aides and allies have made a concerted effort to try to get him to stop holding these briefings.

I want to bring in legendary journalist, Carl Bernstein. Carl, just help us understand what we are witnessing right now, because more than 54,000 Americans are dead. And the president this week suggested a potentially deadly treatment before later saying he was being sarcastic and these briefings are no longer worth his time.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the question for the press and all Americans and the senators and the congressmen that needs to be raised is, are we at the mercy of a delusional, unstable president, at the moment that we have lost more lives than in any events since World War II.

And what are the prices that we are paying for a president who is more concerned with his re-election efforts, with attacks on the press rather than addressing through fact this horrible medical crisis that is afflicting this country and the world through sensible decision making instead of tirades.

CABRERA: Now, we've talked on this program about the president's relationship with science, with truth, but Dr. Deborah Birx has defended the president's suggestion regarding the disinfectants. She just called it amusing and sort of how he processes things. Listen.


DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: But he turned to me. I made it clear. And he understood that it was not as a treatment. And I think that kind of dialogue will happen. I think the president made it clear that physicians had to study this. I think I've made it clear that this was amusing, as you describe, but I want us to move on to be able to get information to the American people that can help them protect each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: Carl, what's your take on that?

BERNSTEIN: First of all, that's no defense of the president. That's just excuse making. And second of all, that he is reckless, he is dangerous, he is malfeasant, which is to say, he is using the powers of the presidency to spread and use and put out these notional ideas of his that a stable president of the United States ought to keep to himself.

There is a special responsibility that goes with being a president of the United States, particularly in a moment when you want to be acting during this supposed war that we are fighting on the coronavirus. You want to be acting like a responsible, calm, informed commander in chief, not like somebody gone off half-cocked in the middle of a battlefield and is a sitting duck for the enemy, and that's what we're seeing here.

We are not seeing a rational process. We are not seeing a stable genius, as the president likes to call himself. We are seeing demonstrable instability, demonstrable inability to act like a responsible leader to bring this country together, to bring together the best people he can, and some of that has been done, and then let them act, and also to mobilize the huge powers he has as president through the Defense Production Act, through, for instance, calling up the national guard and using the military to do the kind of testing that the experts like Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx have told us. We are behind. We are at a deficit. We are losing lives because this president has not mobilized to get the testing that we need.


CABRERA: Carl, "The Washington Post" broke down the last three weeks of President Trump's briefings, and this is what they found. He has spent two hours on attacks, 45 minutes praising himself or his team, nine minutes promoting hydroxychloroquine, and just 4-1/2 minutes offering sympathy for the victims.

Carl, as you've pointed out, in just six weeks, we have lost more Americans than we did in the Vietnam war, more than the Korean war, more than World War I. I know you talk to White House aides and friends of President Trump frequently. Is the death toll weighing heavily on him?

BERNSTEIN: Yes, I think it is. But his response to the death toll is to get angry at his enemies because I think there is some awareness he has of how slow he has been to act here. And the fact is that we are behind in fighting this. You know, one of the problems with this president in not dealing with fact and not knowing about history, he ought to look at some old newsreels.

He likes to look at video of President Roosevelt in World War II and how he united this country, and how he appealed to the best in us, and how he put politics aside. Who can imagine a president of the United States, while we are losing thousands and thousands of Americans on this battlefield, we have watched repeatedly this irresponsible, reckless president talk about how he's going to get himself re-elected and about his enemies and about the press, and about -- until four weeks ago how this was a hoax, this pandemic manufactured by his enemies.

We have got a terrible problem in this country, and that is we are being facing an enemy, the pandemic, such as we've never faced in our lifetimes, and we have a president of the United States who is not addressing it in a responsible manner, who is not using the tools at his command, who sees this as yet another event in terms of himself, not the national interests, not the people who are suffering.

His eyes ought to be every moment on those who are suffering and how to alleviate that suffering through using the powers of his office to bring us all together to fight, and to use the tools that he has that he refuses to use, partly because he's got this notion that somehow American companies, on their own, are going to step up and do their job without him compelling them to. And that has cost us a terrible, terrible loss --

CABRERA: Yes. That's --

BERNSTEIN: -- in some ways on the battlefield because he won't use that Defense Production Act or bring up the national guard or do these other necessary things to fight a real all-out war in real time.

CABRERA: Carl Bernstein, thank you very much for taking the time. We always appreciate having you on and hearing your perspective. Thank you.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you.

CABRERA: Coming up, celebrities are going all in to try to feed families hit hard by the coronavirus including my next guest, DJ Khaled. You're live in the CNN "Newsroom".




DJ KHALED, RECORD PRODUCER & SONGWRITER: Asahd, what are we going to do?

ASAHD KHALED, SON, DJ KHALED: Wash your hands.

KHALED: Let me see. Come on. All right!



CABRERA: Now, that is how you make someone care about washing hands. DJ Khaled and his son there doing their part to help during this pandemic. But DJ Khaled is also helping in another way. He is part of the "All In Challenge", celebrities auctioning off treasured memorabilia, their personal time or an over-the-top experience in return for donations that go to groups like "Meals on Wheels" and "No Hungry Kid".


KHALED: Check this out. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to give somebody a jet ski experience and that's going to be incredible. Then, you go to your -- in Miami. Then, you go to your hotel, get freshened up, then you go and meet me for dinner. That's going to be incredible. This is the "All In Challenge". Michael Rubin, I challenge everyone.


CABRERA: And DJ Khaled is with us now along with Michael Rubin, who came up with this "All In Challenge". He's also co-owner of the "Philadelphia 76ers".

First of all, thank you both for what you are doing. And Michael, I want to start with you because you have a special announcement you'd like to make about a milestone you've reached with donations.


MICHAEL RUBIN, CO-CREATOR OF ALL IN CHALLENGE: Yes. We're excited. Today, we reached over $20 million that we've raised in the first 12 days of this. And we also distributed our first $10 million to "Meals on Wheels", "No Kid Hungry", "World Central Kitchen", and "Feeding America". So, it's a big milestone to get over $20 million and also to distribute out our first $10 million to help people that are so in need.

CABRERA: That's fascinating and fantastic. DJ Khaled, tell us why you chose to participate? What made you participate?

KHALED: I mean, first of all, it's a beautiful thing in saying we are going through hard times right now. Anything to help the people, that's what I'm about. And when I see Michael Rubin do this, it was just beautiful.

When I seen all the celebrities and everybody just getting involved, and it's uplifting the spirits and bringing people together, unity, and to help the kids and feed the kids and the families across the world and help anybody is always beautiful especially in times like this. But we do this all the time. And it's going to make us come out even stronger and better.

CABRERA: I think what you bring up is such a good point about how good it feels to help somebody else. And I think, you know, if anything, that's just something that has really resonated with me during this time is how everybody is chipping and doing their part, and at the same time getting those feel-good, you know, inside feelings that are boosting us all during this time when it's really dark.

KHALED: Yes. You know, happiness is a major key. You know, anytime you can make somebody smile and look forward to something and achieving a goal. You know, right now, you know, we're all quarantining right now, you know. It's safe to stay home. And while we're staying home, we're uplifting each out through social media and "All In Challenges", not only fun and exciting but it's also a great experience.

Like for instance, you can, you know, get a chance to fly with Drake in his big private jet. You get a chance to go to his concert. You also get a chance to jet ski with me in Miami and that's an incredible experience and go to dinner, and, you know, so many -- Justin Bieber, you get a chance to get Justin Bieber to come to your house and sing a song, you know.

So, it's so many beautiful, great opportunities, and experiences for the fans, but also, it's going to help people, and that's the key with "All In Challenge", and say it's helping people.

CABRERA: Michael, let me pivot to some other news because ESPN is reporting that the NBA plans to reopen team practice facilities on Friday in areas where local government officials have relaxed stay-at- home restrictions. ESPN is also reporting that players will be allowed to voluntarily work out individually, but not as a team. As co-owner of the "Philadelphia 76ers", how do you feel about this?

RUBIN: Look, it's important for the country that we get back to having sports as soon as we can do it safely both for the players and their families and our fans. I think players in all sports want to stay in the best possible shape as they can. And I think this is really -- I won't look at this as a signal that basketball is coming back. I'd more look at it as a signal that everyone wants to stay in great shape. And the same time, again, we want sports to come back as soon as we can do it in a safe way for our players and their families, as soon as we can do it in a safe way for our fans.

And in the interim, we're super excited to be laser focused on how we can raise as much money as possible for people in need. And I got to tell you, I got to thank Khaled. Khaled not only went all in on Friday in doing his "All In Challenge", but I called Khaled, went after him and said, man, your energy is infectious. I need you to --


RUBIN: -- help us take this to the next level. So, he not only went all-in with this experience, but he went all in to be part of the team that's running this every single day and get out that helps spreading the word. And I think that, you know, we have an ambitious goal of raising at least $100 million to feed people in need.

And I think having Khaled on the team, not only with his incredible experience but helping us day in and day out, 24/7 to raise at least $100 million is something I'm so appreciative of.

CABRERA: So, the goal is $100 million. You've reached $20 million, which is a huge milestone, but you got a long ways to go. And DJ Khaled, obviously, is an example of how people can continue to come onboard, since you just joined on Friday.

But let me ask you, as well, about that energy that you project, DJ Khaled, because this week, you hosted a virtual concert for the NFL draft after-party and you appeared on "SNL's" second remote show as an entertainer. I'd imagine you feed off of the energy of a live audience. What were those experiences like doing all of this remotely and virtually?

KHALED: I mean, it was definitely new for me. But I'm realizing that, you know, I think we're going to be doing more of this even when we get back to normal life. I think we're going to be doing more of this. And it was beautiful because, believe it or not, I mean, I really got a chance to have a one-on-one with fans, because, like, for instance, a party I did, I had a meet and greet. So, I got a chance to talk to fans one on one on the Zoom and also gave them a live concert, you know, performed for them live.

And I still felt the energy, because, you know, social media is so powerful now, you know, what I'm saying. You see the tweets coming in, you know, the comments coming in, and just the energy, and then people reposting stuff, so it's beautiful. And for instance, like the "All In Challenge" is going viral, you know what I'm saying.


KHALED: And anything that -- anything that's positive energy and good energy that can go viral, it's a beautiful thing. As long as it's positive --



KHALED: -- and that's what "All In Challenge" is and that's what I'm about.

CABRERA: I love that and that's why I love having you guys on because I need that energy, that positive energy, as well. DJ Khaled and Michael Rubin, thank you, again, both for what you're doing. Keep up the great work. And hopefully, we'll hear about more people coming onboard and more donations coming your way to raise money for those in need. Thanks again, guys.

KHALED: Bless us. Thank you.

RUBIN: Thank you so much.

CABRERA: Still ahead, many beaches in parts of the country are open this weekend. But are people still social distancing? We are live where people are flocking to the water in California, next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.