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Ohio Governor Expected to Announce Plan to Reopen Today; U.S. Cities and States Brace for Layoffs and Cuts as Crisis Deepens; Coroner in Georgia Pleads with People to Stay Home; Georgia Restaurants, Movie Theaters Have Green Light to Open; Florida Governor to Speak Soon and Speculation Over Reopening Date; New York Governor Outlines Phased Approach to Reopening State; U.S. Nears 1 Million Cases of Coronavirus. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 27, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:47]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

As the United States closes in on one million cases of coronavirus, more states are closer to reopening. Governors outlining phased approaches to green light their economies. At the same time the White House task force coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx says some form of social distancing will continue through the summer, and she also said the country desperately needs a, quote, "technology breakthrough," in terms of widespread testing.

SCIUTTO: Georgia, with the most aggressive plan to reopen, could be the nation's first major test as more people get antsy, impatient with the social distancing rules. Today restaurants and movie theaters there are allowed to open for business, despite some warnings from top experts. Of course, other states experimenting with opening as well.

We are covering all the angles this morning. Let's begin, though, with Martin Savidge in Georgia.

Martin, we've been talking to you the last few days as these rules have been relaxed. Are more businesses now taking advantage of these rules to open up?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is phase two obviously and as you point out, Jim, it's restaurants and movie theaters. I have not heard of any movie theaters opening but restaurants, they're at least trying.

Waffle House, where we are, is of course a pretty famous chain down here in the south. They've got roughly, well, 1,950 stores in multiple states. As a result of coronavirus they've had to shut down 700 of them. They've got 400 stores here in Georgia, of which 330 are open today with limited hours.

We've been watching here. It's been a very, very slow process of people arriving most still carrying out.

Let's take a look at what other states are doing here. Colorado, they are also starting to open some things, retail businesses can reopen with curbside delivery. They're even allowing elective medical procedures to resume.

Georgia, we've already mentioned, the restaurants and movie theaters opening today. That's for dine-in, I should point out. In Minnesota, they're allowing 80,000 to 100,000 people in industrial and manufacturing office settings to return to work. And then you've got Tennessee, where restaurants were able to reopen at a 50 percent occupancy.

So it's slow, it's early, and many are still obviously very, very nervous -- Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: And notable there, those are both red and blue state governors who are making some of those decisions there.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And that's notable. Martin Savidge, thanks so much.

To Florida now where in just under two hours the state's governor will be making an announcement regarding Florida rules.

HARLOW: Exactly, and the big question is, will he reveal a reopening date and what will that look like? Let's go to our Rosa Flores. She joins us in Miami this morning.

Good morning. Governor DeSantis has really been in the spotlight through so much of this because of a sort of refusal early on to issue a stay-at-home order. Do you have any sense of what a reopening will look like for Florida?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, at this point no, Poppy, and the governor has not said when he plans to make that announcement to reopen the state and even though he has said that he is not in a rush, the reality is that the clock is ticking for the governor for several reasons.

First of all, his stay-at-home order expires on Thursday, and then secondly, his executive orders were written in such a way that it gave a lot of leeway to local authorities to make their own decisions, and so we're seeing this patchwork response in the state of Florida. That's why we saw Jacksonville beaches open about two weeks ago, and Bay and Sarasota Counties following suit.

And today we're expecting Miami-Dade County to announce their reopening plan for parks, waterways and golf courses. Now according to Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Jimenez, he plans to do this in a very methodical way that involves strict social distancing guidance and strict enforcement. So much so he says that he hired 400 people just to monitor parks and also members of the Miami-Dade Police Department, U.S. Coast Guard and also the state fish and wildlife will be monitoring, they will be arresting people and if need be they will be issuing fines.

So, Jim and Poppy, just to demonstrate the further patchwork here in the state of Florida, the city of Miami of course is within Miami-Dade but the city of Miami says it is not ready to reopen parks and other outdoor spaces.

[09:05:06]

HARLOW: Yes. It shows how complex it is. We have the mayor of Miami- Dade on -- you know, on Friday talking about all of that.

Rosa, thanks a lot for that reporting.

So, in New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo is also outlining his plan for reopening the state. Right now New York accounts for 30 percent of the COVID cases across the country.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz in New York.

And Shimon, I don't have to tell you, I mean, New York had some of the most severe social distancing. And having seen it in person, people really responded to it. What is the governor talking about opening first and how quickly?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and that social distancing is what's bringing us to this point now, Jim, where the governor is starting to for the first time really give more details about how he plans to reopen the state. He's talking about phases, doing this in phases. He talked about the first phase would be construction workers and manufacturing companies.

But it would be mostly people in the upstate area, at least right now those were the details that he gave yesterday. He is supposed to lay out more information perhaps more today and during the week. The biggest concern obviously is as you start to open up this city, New York City, the rate of infections, the rate of hospitalizations which has been going down is going to increase, so that is his big concern.

So that's why he wants to do this in phases, in places with less density, upstate, some of the construction work, some of the manufacturing jobs, bringing those people back, seeing how the rate of infection goes, and then looking at New York City, and deciding on when parts of this city of New York City will reopen -- Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Shimon, we know you'll be watching it closely. Thanks very much.

Let's discuss now with Dr. Celine Gounder. She's an infectious disease specialist and an epidemiologist.

Doctor, always good to have you on.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: So you're watching these steps by governors, mayors around the country, some more aggressive, state of Georgia, some a little bit more trepidations, but still making steps. I mean, New York being an example there.

As you watch it, in your view, who's getting it right?

GOUNDER: Well, I think it really comes down to who is scaling up contact tracing and testing and frankly, no one has that perfectly right yet. New York City I would say is on the right track. There is an effort to hire a huge number, some 10,000 or more contact tracers for the city alone, and to try to scale up testing using a number of commercial labs as well as academic medical centers. So I think, you know, they're at least preparing in the right way.

I think some states have just been overly anxious. They haven't taken the steps necessary to be in a position to do this safely when they do reopen.

HARLOW: So, Dr. Gounder, one thing that I think went maybe missed by a lot of people because it came sort of later on Friday, as the WHO, the World Health Organization, coming out with this warning saying there's no evidence yet that people that have had COVID-19 will not get a second infection. Jake Tapper asked Dr. Birx about that yesterday morning. Here is her response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: WHO is being very cautious. I think what WHO was saying, we don't know how long that effective antibody lasts. And then I think that is a question that we have to explore over the next few months and over the next few years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So given those two things, how should people take this warning from the WHO? People who may have suffered from this disease, think they're, you know, immune essentially and maybe they're not.

GOUNDER: Right, Poppy. We have no guarantees right now that just because you've had COVID that you're now immune to reinfection to getting the disease again. First of all, we don't know if antibodies actually indicate immunity. There are different arms of the immune system so we're not sure that that's the key arm here. Secondly, with other coronaviruses, you know, we at least have some knowledge that probably immunity with other coronaviruses might last one to three years, but we're not sure that that can be applied here.

You know, and I think until we have a bit more information, one, about the antibody tests and two, about what the antibodies actually mean, we probably should all be cautious regardless of whether we've had the disease before and whether we're antibody positive or not.

HARLOW: OK.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, there's so much we don't know about this. The other issue that Dr. Birx commented on was testing. She said that the U.S. will need a breakthrough in testing to truly screen large numbers of people. I have to say, having been asking doctors like you, experts, about

testing for weeks now, everyone has said, you know, unanimously, you need broad-based testing to open safely but we don't really have that yet, and yet states are moving forward under understandable economic pressure.

What does that mean? I mean, are officials flying blind then without that kind of broad-based testing?

GOUNDER: Well, that's exactly the problem, and so we're flying blind. We are -- we know we'll see an increase in transmission once you lift social distancing measures. The question is, when you do so, do you even know what's happening?

[09:10:04]

And I do fear -- you know, I've been hearing from some folks on the ground, for example, people working with homeless shelters in various states who have been very concerned about their population and really getting pushback from local officials saying look, I don't even want to know, I mean, in so many words, that they don't want to know if the problems are, because they're not even equipped to deal with them.

So even if they do see an increase in cases, what are they going to do? So I think, you know, there's a combination of a lack of political will as well as a lack of the technological capacity here.

HARLOW: Dr. Gounder, thank you for being with us on all those fronts. Still so many questions.

And also still to come for us, the outbreak is devastating city and state budgets, as you know, across the country. How cities are approaching this sort of delegate balance of trying to reopen their economies and keep people safe.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And they're not getting the help that a lot of big cities are getting, and a stark warning from one of the nation's largest meat providers, Tyson Foods says that millions of pounds of meat will disappear from the supply chain as the coronavirus causes more plants to close.

And health officials in China say the final coronavirus patients in the epicenter of the outbreak are out of the hospital. CNN takes you inside the city of Wuhan, China, where this all started as no one else can. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Well, getting meat at your local grocery store could become more difficult in the coming weeks. One of the country's top food producers is warning that the nation's food supply chain is breaking now.

POPPY HARLOW, CO-ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: That's right, John Tyson; the Chairman of the board of Tyson Foods raising that warning after his company shut down two major pork processing plants in just the last few weeks over coronavirus infections. Dianne Gallagher is with us. I mean, he took out a full page ad in the biggest newspapers in the country with this warning. I will say, you know, they shut down plants after weeks of outrage and demands to do so.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and Poppy, again, the reason why the plants are shutting down is because the people who work inside those plants are getting sick. We're seeing outbreaks of the coronavirus amongst these meat processing and packing plants across the entire country. It is not just Tyson, but you mentioned John Tyson in that full page ad said that the food supply chain is breaking.

He said that it is vulnerable and that consumers should be prepared to see less of the products from Tyson on the grocery store shelves as these plants are shut down due to the coronavirus. He's not the first member of a board or a CEO from a meat company to say this. The Smithfield CEO two weeks ago said that the meat -- food supply chain was perilously on the edge because of these plants shutting down.

Now look, I've spoken with food supply chain experts who say that, that's true kind of. The U.S. is not going to run out of meat. We have plenty of meat, but it is quite possible that you are going to see less variety in brands, in cuts and in type of meat at the grocery stores because of these closures. And in part, that's because of the way that the food supply chain is designed.

It's kind of like if you think of, according to Julie Niederhoff from Syracuse University. She said think about like a toll booth and traffic trying to go through a toll booth, and they start closing randomly without warning, and only certain vehicles can go through certain tolls. And so, you get this traffic jam here, it starts to open back up, but it is very likely if you want Tyson pork sausage at the grocery store, Poppy, Jim, you might not see it.

You might have to settle for chicken wings from a different company instead, until it comes back online.

HARLOW: We've been following this and we'll continue to follow it very closely especially the impact on those --

GALLAGHER: Yes --

HARLOW: Employees. Dianne, thanks for the reporting.

SCIUTTO: Yes, well, the governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine, is set to lay out his plan for reopening the state today. DeWine says it is consistent with White House guidelines, but a state and local leaders figure out how to reopen, this crisis is hammering economies of cities like Dayton, Ohio. It was forced to furlough more than a quarter of its workforce.

I'm joined now by Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley. And mayor, thanks so much for taking the time this morning. First of -- if I could ask you about the governor's plan for the state, expected to lay out his plans for gradual reopening. Are you ready? Is the city of Dayton ready and are businesses there ready to gradually open things up?

MAYOR NAN WHALEY, DAYTON, OHIO: Well, thanks, Jim. I think we are if it is gradual enough, you know, we'll hear from the governor this afternoon. Mayors from across the state have been in constant contact with him daily. For us, you know, I think we are ready for manufacturing and distribution with some really tight rules to be opened. We're a little more nervous about retail because we need to make sure we continue this social distancing because quite frankly, Ohio's 49th in the country per capita on testing right now. And until we get this testing really up, we don't really know much about where the virus is.

SCIUTTO: You wrote -- you co-wrote, I should say, an op-ed with a Republican mayor of another town, Kettering, nearby, talking about the particular burden on smaller cities, and smaller cities being missed in effect by the larger government aid packages. I'm just going to quote briefly from here, you wrote, "cities large and small are on the front lines of this fight. We cannot force our communities to choose between paramedics and picking up trash or between our police officers and our water systems. And investment and local government is an investment in all of us." Why is it, do you believe that the big stimulus package has missed largely cities like yours?

[09:20:00]

WHALEY: Well, I think, Jim, that in the federal government because they're trying to pump so much money in as quickly as possible, they've just really forgotten how to get it to the ground. And you know, we've seen lots of support from our members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, who when you only have five people really deciding the outcome. The big dogs get attention and us smaller ones --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

WHALEY: Are quickly on the cutting room or forgotten.

SCIUTTO: Well, what do you say to Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell who has said regarding states at least that listen, declare bankruptcy, don't rely on the federal government for aid coming out of this. What's your response to that line?

WHALEY: Well, I mean, I think it's a pretty reckless, hypocritical statement, and quite frankly, if that is the federal government's move, we'll see a depression that lasts a very long time. You know, I thought that the work that they were doing around recovery was trying to make sure that we can get out of this economic depression as quickly as possible. And statements like that tell me that really, McConnell wants to play politics long-term, that he really wants to make sure the American people are taken care of. It is disappointing.

SCIUTTO: How quickly do you think and maybe quickly is not the word, I suppose just how long is it going to take to get small businesses back up and running, manufacturers, get those furloughed workers back to work? I mean, are we -- you're prepared for months of this? WHALEY: I think so, and I think we need to also remember particularly

for our restaurants and small businesses, they can't afford to keep on opening and closing, so we really have one chance to get it right. These are businesses that are, you know, really are to the ground, live month-to-month, and it is incredibly painful to be a mayor and tell restaurants like not yet.

But I think it's really important for us to make sure that we're confident that once they can open, they get to stay open, and that's really important for the long-term viability of this economy. You know, these aren't --

SCIUTTO: Yes, you don't want to have --

WHALEY: False choices -- right, these aren't false choices between health and economy, they're both connected. And so we have to be very thoughtful about that. And you know, to this point, Governor DeWine has been terrific in that work.

SCIUTTO: Yes, you don't want to have whiplash. Final question, we last met last August during another tragic event in the town, mass shooting there left nine people dead. And I remember at the time, you know, the sense of community there, Dayton strong, I saw it painted on every window of every shop in town, murals, et cetera, at the time. I just wonder, has the unity from that crisis then helped you through a very different one, but this latest challenge to your community?

WHALEY: Yes, I think, you know, strange things are strange, and you know, you build off of what you've learned, and unfortunately, for Daytons, year 2019 where we saw mass tornadoes and hate rallies that come to our town and then the mass shooting. I tell the people of Dayton, you know, we are disaster tested, and you know, this one is a different one, but that connectivity to our community, the resilience and the grit this town has, we're seeing it play again during this very tough, you know, world issue of this pandemic. And it's still --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

WHALEY: Just an incredible honor to be the mayor of a city that fights so hard.

SCIUTTO: Well, we're always rooting for the people of Dayton. Mayor Nan Whaley --

WHALEY: Thank you --

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much for coming on.

HARLOW: It was great to hear from her, good luck to them. All right, so ahead for us, a coroner in one of Georgia's hardest-hit counties is wondering why the state's reopening when he says they're quote, "right in the thick of fighting this pandemic", he'll join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:00] SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Although many businesses have been given the right now to reopen in Georgia, a coroner in one county where 108 people have died is pleading with residents to stay home.

HARLOW: That's right, Michael Fowler wrote this in a really touching piece in "The Washington Post". "Sometimes I think about stopping and showing them one of the empty body bags I have in the trunk. You might end up here. Is that worth it for a haircut or a hamburger?" Michael Fowler is with us now. Thank you so much for what you do and what you're having to do right now and for writing this so people could really understand what it's like to be in your shoes in a crisis like this.

You're busier than you've ever been, and you say "I'd like to lie and say we were perfectly trained for something like this to hit." What has the last six weeks been like for you?

MICHAEL FOWLER, CORONER, DOUGHERTY COUNTY, GEORGIA: It's been very -- first of all, I want to thank you for having me this morning. But we definitely have been very busy compared to what we'd normally be a whole lot busier because of the virus that have come into our community here. And many times like I said, I see different individuals on the side of the street not wearing masks and gathering.

And it's frustrating because I keep thinking about every time I see someone without a mask, a gathering, that could be another person that I can pronounce dead. And I don't want to have to pronounce someone dead prematurely because of this virus. I know people are going to have homicides and suicides and stuff like this. But this virus is something we can't prevent and practice social distancing, and also wash our hands and follow the orders at this time.

But many people are not doing it. First, we're taking it lightly, think it was something that happened in New York, Chicago, and another part of the country. But this happened here in Albany, Georgia, to a small city like this. Right now we have over 110 deaths that this virus has brought in our community and affected many families, so it's frustrating sometimes.

SCIUTTO: Michael, you have said that this is a number and facts job, and that it's a fact that Georgia has not yet had a falling number of cases or deaths, which by the White House's own standards, you should have 14 days of declining cases before you open safely.

END