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Dr. Anthony Fauci: If We Prematurely Try To Open Up, Coronavirus Could "Rebound"; President Trump: Many States Moving To Reopen Safely And Quickly; California Governor Gavin Newsom Warns Virus "Doesn't Take Weekend Off"; New York Governor Andrew Cuomo Gives Coronavirus Update; New York Governor Andrew Cuomo: 335 People Died In Past 24 Hours. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 28, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or they would have had liability. For any loan over $2 million the SBA will be doing a full review of that loan before there is loan forgiveness. So we will make sure that what was intended for tax payers is fulfilled here.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: The LYCA's Organization says it has repaid the loan after learning the initial funding for the program had run out. Mnuchin says he is encouraged by other larger companies returning their loan money.

Our viewers in the United States around the world it is top of the hour. I'm John King in Washington. This is CNN's continuing coverage of the Coronavirus pandemic.

United States now on track to pass one million confirmed Coronavirus cases. Today the President meeting right now with the Florida Governor Rhonda DeSantis at the White House, DeSantis says his concern is getting re opening right less about setting a specific date.

While Florida is taking its time more than a dozen other states are moving forward from bringing their economies back online. The fractures in the Coronavirus pause are prompting warnings from scientists.

Testing a new study says is still 2 million test short per week of the threshold that study believes is necessary for states to safely re open. The President's top expert Dr. Anthony Fauci says the coronavirus nightmare scenario turned into an awful reality. Well, the President says the re opening are happening quickly and safely but he sounds a lot more worried.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NIAID: If we are unsuccessful or prematurely try to open up and we have additional outbreaks that are out of control. It could be much more than that. It could be a rebound to get us right back in the same boat that we were in a few weeks ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: In New York City right now take a look the Blue Angels, the fly over in New York City along the East River past the Statue of Liberty in honor of the health care workers in New York and across the country putting their lives on the line. Let's listen for a minute.

Remarkable to watch again that military tribute to the front line health care workers in New York and across America the Blue Angels other heroes flying along the East River in New York. It's nice to see let's get straight to the White House now and CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

Well, Kaitlan a tribute there to the workers on the frontline. The healthcare crisis part of it one of the factors the President and his guest at the moment have to think about as they decide. The President on Twitter this morning leaning into re opening saying states are already doing it safely and quickly. But his guest at the moment has been somewhat cautious I assume he's looking for a green light from the President. Kaitlan Collins having some issues with us Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing you. But what we do know is happening right now on the Oval is that the President is sitting down with the Florida Governor. This is notable of course because Florida's stay-at- home order expires in a few days.

And a lot of Floridians are still waiting to see exactly what it's going to look like or what the next steps are going to be? So far Ron DeSantis is that it's going to be baby steps. They are going to be moving into that reopening slowly. But of course we know that he it does rely heavily on the advice of the President.

Because remember it was just in April when he was so resistant to those calls to issue a stay-at-home order and he finally did so after the President came out to that briefing when he had that very sober demeanor. They were citing those projections for potential death tolls and that was when Ron DeSantis issued that stay-at-home order on April 1st.

I believe it was and so now the question is what's going to look like as the re opening? And based on the early reports of what's happening in the Oval right now? We do know DeSantis is facing question about why he waited so long to issue those stay-at-home orders.

He's been defending those moves so far. But there are always a lot of questions as we move forward with this. Because we've seen this dynamic play out between Governors and the White House where Governors like Georgia Governors Brian Kemp moved forward to far with those measures after the President initially supported what he was doing and then later said he did not support how aggressive his timeline was?

And of course all this comes just one day after yesterday in the Rose Garden the President was acknowledging those complaints and concerns that we've heard from Governors for weeks now about the ability to do enough testing to reopen. So there is still going to be a big question over whether or not what the White House rolled out is going to be enough? A lot of health experts have said it's going to be far higher than every state testing 2 percent of its population. So we are waiting to see how the administration and the President response to those concerns from health experts?

KING: Very much looking forward to hearing from the President and the Governor to see if they're leaning forward are being more cautious. Kaitlan Collins covering the White House, I appreciate it very much.

Joining me now to discuss Anne Rimoin, she is a Professor of Epidemiology at UCLA. And Anne let's just start Professor Rimoin, I should say it should be more polite more formal. Let's start with Florida the President has the Governor of Florida in right now.

Neighboring Georgia has re opened a lot of people are waiting. I know you're waiting to see ten days two weeks from now does the infection rate in Georgia go up or have they pulled this off without a significant rise in cases?

If you look at Florida the 14 day trend, it's the third largest State in the United States of America. Its 21 one million people, if it starts to re open obviously it will be a huge experiment in whether this can work?

[12:05:00]

KING: My read of that as a lay person is not yet that it's mostly flat but a couple of spikes that would make me think let's wait get another week or ten days how do you read it?

ANNE RIMOIN, UCLA PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY: We don't have enough information because we don't have enough testing in place. And this is that the same thing that - I'm seeing the same thing they do here and basically every epidemiologist and an expert in this field say.

We need testing. We need situational awareness and make decisions based on this kind of situational awareness. Right now we have no idea how many cases there are? We don't have the contact tracing in place. We don't have testing in place. Testing doesn't come back fast enough.

You know we - the tests are not all validated. The results are not always clear. So I think that this really needs to be resolved before we move forward or as a Doctor Fauci has said to us we will be - we risk losing all the gains that we've made through all this collective sacrifice.

KING: Well it is remarkable. We had this very conversation about a week ago that we're still flying blind because we don't have enough testing to understand the depth of the problem out in communities as these Governors make the decision to move forward.

You mention Dr. Fauci. The White House had another event yesterday allowed again last week the President said I don't know what the Governors are talking about. They already have all they need. He questioned the intelligence of a couple of them. Yesterday at the White House saying okay, we're going to help ramp up testing. We're going to do more. Still Dr. Fauci this morning says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. FAUCI: It actually did fail us early on. I said that before so I'm not creating any new - any new dialogue here. The testing situation has improved very rapidly whether or not we're exactly where we want to be? That remains to be same. I think we are either there David or getting very close to being there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This is your Wheel House Professor Rimoin, are we very close?

RIMOIN: Well, I think that there are many things that - we are definitely better than we were before. But I think that one thing Dr. Fauci said earlier is he knows what it's like for people to say were there and then on the ground realizing that you don't really have what you need.

He said this maybe a week or so ago. And I think that this is probably also where - the case you know we know on the ground that people are still not able to get tests. People who unless they are acutely ill that there is a lot of confusion on the ground. Where to get to test? How to get a test? How sensitive or specific these tests are?

So I think - and the big issue too we know that swabs and reagents these chemicals that you need to be able to do the tests are also in high demand and not always available. So I think that the reality on the ground is very different than what you're radically maybe possible are coming down the pike.

KING: Well, let me try to get in the middle of theoretically and reality on the ground in the sense of these projections. The IHME Study University of Washington, the White House often cites it especially when the numbers were going down to say look our social distancing guidelines are working the projected number of American deaths are going down.

Now it's going back up. It was at 60,000 Chris Murray the Head of that study now puts it in the 72, 74,000 or so by August 1st. And listen here's explained to my colleague Don Lemon last night why they're raising the projection?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MURRAY, DIRECTOR, INSTITUE OF HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION: Our best estimate is going up and we see these protracted long peaks in some states. We're also seeing signs in the mobility data and the people are getting more active and that's also feeding into RSS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So the first part is Coronavirus is a stubborn virus even if you have social distancing, you try to corral it. It takes a while to suppress it. The second part is the question of the moment. If more mobility is leading the people who are doing these projections to say the more people move around right now the more likely more Americans are to die that gets the Governors to the balance.

They have to make as to do you reopen the economy? More of your people will get infected more of your people are likely to get sick. Some of them are likely to die or do you wait a couple more weeks?

RIMOIN: Again it's all about having what we need in place to be able to re open? Everybody wants to re open. It is necessary that we that to a place where we can reopen. So what we need to do to be able to do so is throw everything we've gone behind getting the testing, the tracing and all of these pieces in place.

And I think that there are so many things that are needed first to be able to get there. I feel just as everybody very frustrated that we're not able to have gotten to this place yet. But Dr. Murray is absolutely right.

What we saw the flattening of this curve was because of the hard work that every single person did to flatten it by staying home, by social distancing doing all the things that we need these black measures. If we open up now we will see a rise in cases.

And I think that everybody has to think well, if we're going to open up who is going to be willing to it to see somebody that they love get sick or die?

[12:10:00]

RIMOIN: I think that this is a very important question and it is difficult for everyone.

KING: It is the question of the moment, Professor Rimoin as always I appreciate your expertise and insights. We'll stay in touch as we walk through this experiment. Up next for us more of the same experiment packed beaches in Southern California prompt a strong warning from the State's Governor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Frustration and some praise today after beaches in California re opened to the public. San Diageo leaders applauding residents for complying with social distancing guidelines as beaches in that community opened for the first time on Monday.

But images out of Ventura and Orange County look at them right there, drawing harsh criticism. May force a closure of at least one beach, New Port Beach draw huge crowds over the weekend? Now the City Council is considering shutting it down. CNN's Stephanie Elam joins me now from New Port Beach. Stephanie what's the scene today and more importantly? And what's the fallout from these big crowds?

[12:15:00]

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, you know John I can tell you that on Saturday it got really hot here like someone flipped a switch and it was summer immediately. And people have been a lot down here in California longer than any other state and that cabin fever kind of reached a peak in some areas like here in Newport Beach.

When we got here this morning you could see that there are a lot of people not wearing masks. There were people inside stores without masks on. The people inside the stores coffee and that sort of thing selling donuts they do have on mass. But you can see it's very different here.

People here at the beach and those images that you saw, people packing the beach on Saturday did not - was not approved by the Governor of California Gavin Newsom. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): This virus doesn't take the weekends off. This virus doesn't go home. The only that will set us back is people stopping to practice physical distancing and appropriate social distancing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And the Governor was also making the point that California, he said is just weeks away from easing up some of the stay-at-home orders not months. But he says that this easing will all be based upon the data and that the data is based upon the behaviors of Californians.

He's like, so if you're not actually doing your part of social distancing about wearing a mask when you're in sight of a place of business then you could actually see this change here and we would stay in this position much longer.

Here the City Council in Newport Beach is going to meet later on today. They are going to look at a couple of options. One being closing down the beaches for the next three weekends and another being just shutting down the roadways that lead out to the beach here so that people can't come out here.

Obviously do lot of people come out early to serve to enjoy the beaches but the point is, is that they want people to remember to socially distance. Same thing with Ventura County John I was drove to see what it looked like on Saturday and almost immediately when you got just past the Los Angeles County border people were out there.

They were not socially distancing. This is what we've seen as things have starting to get warmer here and this is exactly what officials are concerned about. California's done a really good job of flattening the curve but if they don't keep it up that could change John.

KING: Stephanie Elam for us at Newport Beach. Such a fascinating moment, every individual in the country has to make choices. Every local government, every bigger government Mayors all we have to change the Governors and the President. Stephanie Elam I appreciate it right there. We'll watch all this play out in the days ahead.

Democracy is also unfolding today voters in two states are casting ballots by mail. Ohio's vote by mail primary is underway after being pushed back last month at the last minute over concerns about the Coronavirus pandemic. Absentee ballots need to be postmarked by Monday in order to count.

Voters can also bring balance into County Boards of Election if they get them there by 7:30 tonight. Voters in Maryland 7th District also voting by mail today. Those voters casting ballots in the election to fill that House seat held by Congressman Elijah Cummings who passed away back in October.

We're standing by for the Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo. Also ahead for us two researchers talk about the dangers of inaccurate antibody tests.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): -- colleges doing all great policy work for the state for many years. To his right Gareth Rhodes, he's not a doctor either. Well technically he's a doctor too and in that turn he is a doctor. The - Financial Services but I was worked with May in the state for many years and he has been a great talent here.

It's a pleasure to be here today. We're in Syracuse State University of New York upstate Medical School and Hospital. I had a chance to say hello to the nurses and doctors who work here. I have to waive from a social distance.

But I wanted to say thank you for all they have done here. We also sent a team downtown in New York City. So it's just been an extraordinary experience but we've seen the good, the bad and the ugly in all of this.

And the good is beautiful. Let me talk about some of the facts that we're dealing with today. Facts are our friend right. People want to make decisions they want to know the facts without spending without opinion. And that's what we've been giving them.

Total hospitalization rate is down a tick which is good news. The change in hospitalization on rolling total you see is down. Number of intubation is also down. The number of COVID hospitalizations per day these are new people who are newly diagnosed with COVID.

It's under 1000 which is good news. It's still a significant number of people 900 people after all of this we still have 900 new infections yesterday on a three day rolling average. But overall you said the numbers coming down so that's good news.

This is the worst news. Every day I think maybe today's the day the nightmare will be over but it's not. 335 people passed away yesterday from this virus in this state its 335 families. You see those numbers basically reducing but not at a tremendous rate.

And the only thing tremendous is the number of New Yorkers who still passed away. Everyone is talking about re opening I get it. You can't sustain being closed. The economy can't sustain it; the individual families can't sustain it. We can't sustain it on a personal level. Our children can't sustain it but we have to - when we talk about re opening this should not be a political discussion.

It shouldn't be a philosophical discussion. It shouldn't be because people are protesting or some people wanted some, people don't want it. It is a factual discussion on re opening right? So let's demystify it a little bit because in this environment it's becoming rhetorical rather than factual.

We want to re open but we want to do it without infecting more people or overwhelming the hospital system. We're at upstate medical today our great fear was the number of people infected would overwhelm the hospital capacity.

So that's the balance. Re open but don't increase the number of infected people and don't overwhelm the hospital system. We're then designed that system in reopening right? You can factually with data design a system that does just that and that's what government is supposed to do.

Government is not about spouting political or philosophical opinions. Government is about running services, designing programs that actually work for the people to address the problem. And in this situation we can actually measure. We have data. We have fax. So measure what is happening in society and calibrate your re opening to those measurements right?

[12:25:00]

CUOMO: So we're adopting a set of rules a set of guidelines we've studied reopening plans all around the country. We have spoken to every expert on the globe that has been through this before and we've come up with factual data points to guide us on reopening.

First point, don't overwhelm the hospital system. If the hospital system in an area exceeds 70 percent capacity which means your 30 percent - you only have 30 percent left or the rate of transmission of the virus hits 1.1 those are danger signs. We know that.

Remember hospital capacity if you're at 70 percent on your hospitals there is a two week lag on this virus. So if you ever hit 70 percent you can expect the number to go up for the next two weeks as people become - who just got infected actually get ill and some of them come into the hospitals.

So 70 percent is a safe metric to use for your hospital capacity. If the transmission rate hits 1.1 that's what they call outbreak that means it's going to spread much, much faster. You wouldn't start reopening unless you have a transmission rate below 1.1 really below 1. But if it hits 1.1 that means you're in trouble. So those are the two main data points.

If you look at the state and this state is different than most states. This state has New York City one of the densest urban areas on the globe and then we have upstate New York. And if you look at our infection rate upstate New York it's very different than the rate downstate New York. And if you look at the rate upstate New York it's comparable to many states in the Midwest and the West. We hear the discussion every day where some states already opening because they don't have that bad a problem. Some of the places in upstate have a problem that's comparable to states in the Midwest or the West much, much different than New York City.

Okay, then let's come up with data points, factual points of what we have to do to reopen? So everyone has the same opening template that we're dealing with. And we have to be smart about this. Again I know its emotion and I know people are feeling emotional. But emotions can't drive a reopening process right?

We're talking about infection rates. We're talking about hospital capacity. Separate the emotion from the logic and we have to act as our logical selves here. And that's what smart means, be smart about it don't be emotional, don't be political, don't get pushed to politically into a situation.

Protesters are in front of the Capitol we better re open, no. I'm not going to do that. That's not how we make decisions. The first point is CDC set guidelines as to re opening for states. We think those CDC guidelines make sense which is you have to have a 14 day decline in the number of hospitalizations before you go forward.

Second identify industries that you can start re opening that will bring people back to work get the economy going but you know you can do the appropriate precautions and social distancing. So in Phase 1 we're talking about the construction and manufacturing industry right?

Those are two industries that employ a lot of people but we believe you can put the right precautions in place and learn the lessons from where we have been. And say that those businesses this is not just about government say that the businesses tell us how you are going to incorporate the lessons that we just learned?

How do you incorporate social distancing? How do you incorporate fewer people in the space so you reduce density? How do you have the right PPE? How are you going to monitor? Are you going to take temperatures of everyone who walks in?

That's for businesses to the side also separate point make sure you don't have what we call attractive nuisance not really the right use of the term. Attractive nuisance is a legal term.