Return to Transcripts main page

Cuomo Prime Time

Lawmakers Expected to Have Back and Forth Conversation on Mass Testing and Contact Tracing; White House Press Secretary Made an Eyebrow-raising Promise; Operation Warp Speed Hopes to Have 300 Million Vaccines by 2021; New Mexico Governor Orders Closure Of All Roads Into City Of Gallup Amid Coronavirus Outbreak; Interview with Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham (D-NM) For Invoking The Riot Control Act And Essentially Shutting Down A City; CDC, Summer Will Be Critical In Fight Against Covid-19; New Yorkers Keep Cheering On The Lifesavers. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 01, 2020 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: In 2013, he was elected to the Jersey City Council and the slogan was simple, serve the people.

He was also a devoted dad, grandfather and a husband. Michael Yun was 65 years old. Our thoughts go out to all of their families and all families right now impacted by the coronavirus.

The news continues. I want to turn things over to Chris for Cuomo Prime Time. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Well, it is so important for you to remember those who are lost. But I cannot let go the amazing gift that you gave all of us who are desperate for signs of a better tomorrow. And I'm not going to give you some hollow congratulations because I'm Uncle Mo. How many hours are we giving a night? What's Wyatt given you so far?

COOPER: Well, you cut out. But how many hours awake? He actually, last night he was kind of --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: How many hours does he sleep during the night?

COOPER: You know, last night he was up quite a bit after like 2 a.m., but he's been sleeping a lot, which I appreciate. But it's, you know, it's day four, so --

CUOMO: And what is the -- what's the nurse telling you about how he's sleeping. Is he colicky? Like which you watch him sleep, does he seem to be putting some good time down.

COOPER: Yes, he had his first pediatrician appointment. He's healthy, thank goodness.

CUOMO: Good. Good. Thank God. Thank God. COOPER: Yes, so, you know, yes, we're just -- I mean, I'm just amazed

by him. I spent a good two hours today with him sleeping on my chest in a rocking chair and me just watching him.

CUOMO: Yes.

COOPER: And listening to him squeak.

CUOMO: Yes. And, yes, it is normal for you -- well, he gets that from you. And that is -- I've heard you on airplanes. And it is normal for you to watch him with a small anxiety of whether he is breathing or not. We all do it.

COOPER: Yes, I did that. Yes.

CUOMO: OK? And that's OK. And the first --

COOPER: Yes.

CUOMO: -- amazing pleasure that you're going to have is when you get to do not bath time, because they're squirmy and you're scared early on because they're so small. But putting lotion on him afterwards.

And stretching out his little arms. You know how he's like this now? He's all tight, right? His arms are in like that. That's a figging (Ph) for them. So, when you pull his arms out a little bit very gently, stretching him straight and stretching his legs straight, he will open his eyes and start to coo because you will be giving him a little massage.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Wait, did you say coo or poo?

CUOMO: Coo.

COOPER: Because there is a lot of poo these days.

CUOMO: Poo is more of a straight-line smile. Whenever you see this, not a smile. And you are learning the first lesson now. When you take that diaper off with a boy, it is go time as soon as the cold air hits him. You have to move the diaper and you have to pretend you're putting out a fire. The hand has to come down and hold everything down or you will see a spray effect that will really astonish you and change your --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You should write -- you should write -- you should write a daddy book for kids.

CUOMO: It was a daddy, don't --

COOPER: You know it all.

CUOMO: But I'm telling you, the lotion on the legs and the arms. Remember I told you.

COOPER: Yes.

CUOMO: You'll say, I saw it in his face. I'm here for you, brother. The missus is already making an inventory of all the stuff we have for a little boy.

COOPER: All right. Well, thanks. I appreciate that.

CUOMO: I'm so happy for you. You've given us a gift. You gave yourself a gift. You gave your family and your memories of them and something to inculcate their love, but you gave us a gift, too.

COOPER: I know. I keep wanting to wake him up, I just like, I don't know, I don't know what, just wake him up to see his eyes.

CUOMO: Never, never, never, ever do that. Never. If they are sleeping, leave them alone.

COOPER: I haven't.

CUOMO: Any position. And don't reposition him. Don't get SIDs crazy. Don't reposition him. If he is asleep, leave him alone. I love you. Congratulations again.

COOPER: Thanks, Chris. Bye.

CUOMO: Listen, it was a big day. There's a lot of news. There's no question about it. But let's be honest. New babies, somebody you care about bringing life into this world, what that invites as symbolism to the rest of us. What matters more than that? Come on. Let's be honest. It's worth the time to remember.

Welcome, everybody. It's Friday night. I hope you have a good weekend coming. I hope the week has taken you here in a good way. We can have the teleprompter back. We can do the show.

I'm Chris Cuomo. And welcome to Prime Time.

Now, if you want the reality of where we are right now, I'll give it to you in a snapshot. The senators are coming back Monday, OK? They have been told there are not enough tests for all of them.

Think about it. The government that has been telling you, we got it with testing, there's more than enough for everybody, everywhere who wants one, they can get it. They don't have enough for 100 senators. That's the reality.

[22:05:03]

It is time to end the disconnect between that and these reckless rationales for reopening. It has to end. Get us more tests, more people making them in the United States. Get a plan to fund manpower for tracing where people want to open up. This is a war. Treat it that way. You are right to risk money on the vaccine and manufacturing. Why?

Because it's a good risk. If you get it right, you're ready and you've cut a ton of time off it. If not, hey, scared money never wins, OK?

Experts are going to argue tonight that pandemic mode could last as long as two years, even with a vaccine. The biggest facilitator of our freedom remains what this president fights the most. Testing and tracing.

And I know I say it a lot. And I know I get attacked for it and that people say we've done so well. It's a lie. OK? I will not stop pressing this point because I know some day we will look back and remember what mattered most in determining how long we suffer with COVID-19 was testing and tracing. And how long it took to get where we needed it to be. Why? Testing and tracing tell us the truth. Together, as after, as one. Let's get after it.

Hard to believe May 1st, May Day often a cause of celebration as the beginning of spring, but now May Day sounds as much like a call of desperation and help. This has been a long, long, grueling haul, and it is just the beginning.

If you look at these new predictions about what this could look like for months and years by this trusted group of health brains, all right? What is the latest in the state of play?

CNN's Nick Watt tells us.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Limited testing, the continued influx of infected travelers from overseas hotspots and cruise ships, and large events like a conference in Boston, a funeral in Georgia, and Mardi Gras in New Orleans all fueled the devastating early spread of this virus here in the U.S.

This according to a just-released report written by the CDC's principal deputy director. Apparently flu season also made it hard to detect some early clusters in the early introduction of this virus into nursing homes, meatpacking plants and dense urban areas like New York City accelerated transmissions.

This virus might circulate among us for another two years, says one new study, until 60 to 70 percent of us are infected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICIES: This is going to continue to be a rolling situation throughout the world. Not just our country, for these months ahead. So, expect many more New York to occur. It's likely they will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: The U.S. death count doubled these past two weeks. And one newly updated model from Northeastern University now suggests 100,000 people in this country will die by mid-summer. But this morning in Katy, Texas, a line at Snappys cafe and grill.

Today, restaurants, movie theaters and malls can reopen in the state at a quarter capacity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beginning to see the beaches open. Beginning to see guests on the beach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: But up in Dallas County yesterday, nearly 180 new cases, the biggest single-day spike they've seen this all this began.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILARY FAIRBROTHER, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: We're reopening today, and it does feel like a bit of a gamble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Partial opening now under way now in at least 32 states, but it doesn't appear any of them meet White House guidelines that states have a downward trajectory of documented cases within a 14-day period.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There are some states, some cities or what have you, who are looking at that and kind of leapfrogging over the first checkpoint. And, I mean, obviously you could get away with that, but you're making a really significant risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Meanwhile, with ongoing outbreaks at meat processing plants slowing production, some military commissaries now limiting how much meat shoppers can buy. Down in Florida they'll start reopening Monday with restaurants and retail. But the state's three largest and hardest-hit counties are excluded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR DAN GELBER (D-FL), MIAMI BEACH: I don't know that we're going to be able to open up our beaches really before June.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Meanwhile in Michigan, to the governor in the shadow of armed protesters at the capitol, extended her state's stay-at-home order through May 28th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Yesterday's scene at the capitol was disturbing, to be quite honest. Swastikas and Confederate flags, nooses and automatic rifles do not represent who we are as Michiganders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

[22:10:02]

CUOMO: Look, again, thank you to Nick Watt for the piece.

You see the disconnect. We all want to reopen. We want to reopen yesterday. And there is good answer for that. It's not just about a burger and a beer. It's about people being in economic desperation.

But still the answer is the same. Whether you want to go and get a tan or whether you are desperate to work for your family. The answer is the same in both cases. Testing and tracing will tell us the truth. It will keep us safe by letting us know what is working and what is not. It will give confidence to the consumer that is just as necessary as the reopening for the worker.

Because these places won't make money if people aren't confident to go out, and that confidence comes from testing and tracing. If you fight that, you are fighting the truth, and I do not apologize for making the argument once again that this president has fought testing and tracing from jump because the truth of the situation is believed by him to be bad for his political aspirations. It's as simple as that. And it's also as simple as that for us.

And once again today you saw the tweet from the president today, calling those armed protesters who stormed Michigan's capitol very good people. He wants the governor to give into them. How about that? He says talk with them. They're good.

Because he's so inviting of dissent, right? The man who condemns everyone and every institution that does anything but what he wants. Good people with AR-15s in tow because you need that to protest. Just like Charlottesville, this president is forgiving of bad actions because he thinks it is good for him. Their gripes are legitimate. Their right to redress and protest are real. I don't know about the weapons. But it doesn't make what they're doing right.

So then today the president's new press secretary Kayleigh McEnany was questioned about this and a lot of other matters at her very first briefing in the briefing room. Remember those? Maybe they're back again.

She said, I will never lie to you. Here's what I know. On this show she said the president has never lied to you. And I gave her many times to qualify it and take it back. It was a lie when she said it. So maybe she'll be better now. We'll see.

White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is with me. How did that go over, that dynamite notion that I will never lie to you?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, Chris, every press secretary since I've been covering the Trump White House has been asked about how honest they're going to be with the media at the beginning.

Sean Spicer was asked. Sarah Sanders was asked them. Stephanie Grisham obviously was not asked because she never held a press briefing. And so, I think every single time they try to make a commitment to what they're going to say, but has, which been so common during the Trump administration, is that often he undercuts the people who do speak on behalf of him. Because, of course, he often serves as his own best communicator.

So, really, what people rely on is what the president himself says. So that will be interesting to see. The president's been the one holding these daily briefings. Now you're seeing that Kayleigh McEnany is going to be the one doing it.

And one big question is about something that happened yesterday after the intelligence community issued this statement saying that they did not believe the coronavirus was manmade or genetically modified.

Then, of course, they said they were still investigating really where it came from. Was it from infected animals and contact with that or was it from a lab accident in China? The president said he believed that he's seen evidence that it did originate in a lab, which caused a lot of questions about what exactly he's seen.

Kayleigh was asked about that today during her first briefing, and this is what she told reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's statement is consistent with the other intelligence assessments. While we continue to have very limited and dubious data from China, current assessments indicated that President Trump's statement is consistent with what some analysts believe is the epicenter of where the virus began.

One, that this virus originated in China. Two, that it began through contact with infected animals or was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: That's not what the -- that's not what the DNI said.

COLLINS: Yes, if you juxtapose what the president said and what the DNI said, those statements seem to contradict. And when the president was asked about that statement, Chris, he seemed caught off guard by it. He kept asking who it was that had put out the statement when it was put out from Office of the Director of the National Intelligence. We should note, a political ally of his, and it was on behalf of the entire intelligence community.

[22:15:01]

So, of course, she was saying that there is no disagreement there. Though there were questions about whether or not the president was aware they were going to put that statement out.

CUOMO: Look, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, that's fine. But unless I'm wrong, and, please, Kaitlan, let me know if I have it wrong. The DNI said that they did not have reason to believe that this was about a laboratory.

That was the point of the statement because that's what they were asked. Was to deal with that conjecture. And they said we're going to keep looking, but we have no proof that that's what happened. He said he did have proof. There is no truthful way to argue that those two statements are consistent, or am I missing something?

COLLINS: Well, the question is, have they seen definitive proof? Because they are normally incredibly hesitant to put out any kind of statement backing any assessment unless they know that it's happened.

We saw this play out with Russian interference in the 2016 election. They waited until they concluded that it had happened to put out a statement and saying we back this assessment.

So that's why this statement that they put out yesterday before the president made his remarks was so rare, because they normally don't put out statements about theories that have not been corroborated yet, and they basically said we're still looking into see whether or not this was an accident at a lab or whether it came from infected animals.

Which is what one of his top scientists, Anthony Fauci have said, he cited studies saying they believe it is consistent that it jumped from an animal to a human. And so that's still a big question here.

Because a lot of it plays into the fact of, you know, as we talked about last night, how are they going to respond to China? Is the president going to try to punish China? So, a lot of that is actually critically important to how the U.S./China relationship moves forward.

CUOMO: Thirty-seven times since April the president has said things -- or since the beginning of this the president has said flattering things about China and their handling of the pandemic. She's going to have a tough job. Let's see how she decides to do it, Kayleigh McEnany.

Kaitlan Collins, you do your job very well and I appreciate your services here to the audience, especially late on a Friday night. Have a great weekend.

COLLINS: Always. You too.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you.

News today on Operation Warp Speed. The president says he's not overpromising on a vaccine, but he's hoping to deliver hundreds of millions of doses by the end of the year and the sky is the limit on the cost.

We all hope that this is a good bet, that they have the vaccine right. And by the way, to be fair to the science, it is easier for them to figure out the proteins and the way to create the preventive medicine also known as a vaccine.

To prevent something like this than it is for them to figure out what's happening with it in due course as it spreads as a function of infection. That may seem counterintuitive, but I've now vetted that with like five or six different epidemiologists, disease scientists and doctors and they say they may have a jump start on the vaccine, and that placing this bet on manufacturing it before all the phases of testing are done is ambitious, but it's not violative of scientific principles, OK?

So, let's remember that. And let's bring in the doctors for how they feel about it and what they think is still the reality of what needs to happen going forward. Next.

[22:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Not one or two but 300 million. That is the number that President Trump is hoping to meet for coronavirus vaccines by January. Now, let's get a fair read on what the risk is here and the reward.

Insight from friend of the show, the brilliant Dr. William Schaffner. Doctor, thank you very much, and thank you for the quick tutorial last night after our segment during the commercial. You sent me on a hunt today, that was is the fair criticism of Operation Warp Speed?

And a lot of the criticism I've read seems unfair which is, they're rushing the science. I called people involved with it today and who are knowledgeable of the process. They say that's not true. That the risk here is that they are manufacturing what they'll need before the phases of testing are completed. Not that the phases are going to be scientific, you know, insufficient. Is that a fair assessment?

WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: That is perfect, Chris. That's exactly what's happening. We're putting a bet on a horse, this vaccine, even before the horse has started to run. That's a silly analogy.

But we think that this vaccine is going to work. That would be the presumption. And we're already going to start manufacturing it before the -- before the trial is finished. If it works then we have a big stockpile of vaccine ready to go.

CUOMO: Now, another point you made to me last night, which, again, was, you know, a big help to me in giving me a head start in the reporting today. Was I said to you, come on, they don't even know what's going on? They're even -- they're calling me to help understand how my symptoms correspond and correlate to all these different things they've seen. They don't know anything about this virus.

And you told me, slow down. Not knowing what this virus does in terms of the contagion phase is different than the science behind identifying proteins that are preventive of its replication, also known as a vaccine.

And I had five different scientists today agree with exactly that, that it is absolutely plausible that they have a head start from previous vaccines and scientific understanding of what may work as a vaccine, even though they are mystified by how this virus is acting in the body. Explain that to the uninitiated like myself. How do those two things go together? Do you agree and why?

SCHAFFNER: Sure, I -- I agree completely. The virologist can study the virus in the laboratory, how it is put together and how it attaches to cells, for example, which is something you would like to block. If you block the virus' attachment to cells, it can't initiative the infection. It's as though the body just brush it is off.

[22:25:03]

However, it's quite another thing to figure out once the virus does get in how it causes its mischief within the body. That's a separate whole line of investigation. If you can block it from getting in, we've solved the problem.

CUOMO: All right. Good. I want to be fair about it because I don't like the idea of attacking it because they're going too fast. And it seems like politics. It may seem like politics. I don't think it is politics at this point.

We'll see how it goes through the phases and where they arrive. Now, what is politics, in my estimation, and I want your take on this before I release you to your weekend, doctor, and thank you, once again.

Not wanting testing and tracing has to be a function of not wanting the truth because you don't like what it's going to tell you. Because everybody from the Schaffner's to the public health experts to the homeland security and the national security people all point to testing and tracing as the sine qua non that without this nothing if you want to stop the pandemic. And it is still something that this administration has not jumped all over. How do you reconcile those?

SCHAFFNER: All I can tell you is testing and tracing is the foundation on which we build the house of prevention. Everything rests on that. We have to know who's got the virus, where the virus is, how penetrant the virus is in different parts of the country.

We have to identify the people who need medical care and get them to that medical care and then find their contacts and test and quarantine them. Standard public health 101, do it thoroughly and that's fundamental, and we can add on to that social distancing and the other things that we do. But the testing and tracing are absolutely critical.

CUOMO: And they don't even have enough tests for the senators who are coming back Monday. To me, that tells you everything you need to know about the urgency, that the building block, as you just said, of prevention, where we are right now in this country.

Dr. William Schaffner, you are always a plus. Thank you very much for helping the audience once again understand some complicated subjects.

SCHAFFNER: Thank you so much, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. And look, all you need to know for the testing is right now it feels subjective, right? What do I need for comfort to go to a restaurant to go and buy? How about when your kids go back to school. You're telling me you're not going to want to know how many cases there are and what the level of exposure is and how fast they can track down people is? You think you're going to send your kids back to school if you don't have that kind of assuredness. That's the context that makes you realize how important it is.

Now, how do we see this reverberating around the country? Is all the randomness, is the function of the unknown? Some states are opening out but they don't know whether they'll be able to trace and test. They may say they do, but they don't know. We know because of the amount of testing they've done to this point.

New Mexico, however, opposite direction. Locking down to stop the spread. Roads closed off in the city of Gallup tonight. Why? They're not even doing that in Albuquerque or Santa Fe. The rest of the state. Why that city? Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham made the call and she is here to provide you a window into the reality of reopening. Next.

[22:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Hey, just a quick thing. A lot of you are saying that this is still a little confusing. Let me say it maybe in a more simple way. A vaccine prevents the virus from ever taking root in your body. A cure stops the virus once it has taken root in your body. So that's why having a vaccine is not as good as having a cure. Because it may not work for everybody. You may not give it -- get it to everybody. So you need both, OK? A vaccine is very helpful in keeping us from getting sick, but what about once we are? That's where the cure comes in, we got to look for both. The vaccine is a great, great start to keeping a lot of this population from getting sick in the first place.

CUOMO: All right. Now, the state of play in New Mexico. You want to go to Gallup, New Mexico? Can't. Roads are sealed off. City is home to 25,000 or less people. But the mayor needed help fast in coronavirus fighting. Why? I'm going to tell you. He went to the governor. She invoked the riot control act. Businesses are closed tonight. Will be for 15 hours a day. Everyone who lives there is told to stay home unless it's an emergency. This was a tough move to make.

Let's bring in the governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham. Thank you for joining us, governor. First, all blessings to the family. I hope you and all your loved ones are healthy in the heart, healthy in the head.

GOV. MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM (D-NM): Well, that's very nice of you. Everyone doing really well in my family. Just got my mom, though, out of the hospital. Not covid-19. And she's in that high-risk group, so she's home safe and sound and happy to hear that your family's also doing so well, and that you continue to feel better. Thanks for asking.

CUOMO: Oh, no, no, listen, we're all in it together, right? I know it's trite but true. Let me ask you this, governor. Boy, are you in a tough spot. Everybody's talking reopening. They don't care about the testing and the tracing. It's too intoxicating to get back to life. People are too desperate, 30 million people filing unemployment. You get this call from this mayor and they're asking you to do something that is not a popular move right now. What went into your decision- making about invoking the riot control act and essentially shutting down a city?

[22:35:12]

GRISHAM: Well, I wish that particular piece of legislation had a different title, because we don't want to stoke fear in anyone, but honestly, Chris, it was not a hard decision. More than three weeks ago I reached out to that community with the former mayor and really asked them to think long and hard about ways to do much more aggressive community containment. Right? We've got an older population.

A chronic care population. We've got Native American communities who have not had any of the same health care services or support. They have to come in for food and water. And the longer lead time you have to manage an effort like this -- because I've got to make sure everyone's got food, water, medicine, toiletries, personal supplies.

That I think it weighed really heavy on that community because it is really harsh, but necessary. And, frankly, I'm very proud of the former governors. So I've got two -- I'm sorry, two mayors who said -- one whose term ended yesterday and one whose term started today. Talk about a tough first day. Who both were on the same page that this would make a difference? This city has 14 times the amount of cases in its population than the largest urban center in New Mexico. So it wasn't a tough decision for me.

CUOMO: But in context, it's a challenge. Because this has been going on so long and people want to see it move in the other direction. As a governor in a state where there is acute need here, you -- as you outlined to the audience, you have some very specific traits to your population and the diversity of the same that creates challenges.

The idea of testing and tracing is boring to people now. Even the president has said more than once, I don't even know that it's needed. Some governors think, you know, there may be a better way than testing and tracing. How fundamental to your ability to make judgements about this pandemic, is your ability to test and trace and where are you on that ability?

GRISHAM: It is critical. Nothing we do will be safe enough without both increased testing and the contact tracing. You have to have the kind of public health surveillance systems that allow you to make meaningful, productive decisions while you are keeping as much of your population safe as possible. And given in H1N1, in that flu, we found that Native Americans had a four times greater than anyone else mortality rate. I think the data could very well show that covid-19 is higher than

that. We have an obligation statewide. We're all in it together to figure out everything we can do to know about prevalence, density, and strategies that allow you to do something different. Without that surveillance, without both those aspects, we can't do it.

And we've been a very aggressive testing state. It's still not nearly enough. We've got capacity because we're a laboratory state and a research state to do 6,000 tests per day now. Frankly, I think we could stretch it with the right supplies to 7,500, 8,000. And that's what we're proposing to the federal government.

We're one of the pilot test sites. You give us as many tests as possible. We'll run them. And we can run them, some in four hours, some in 24 hours. We're fast. We're effective. That means I'm on the ground immediately doing the surveillance and contact tracing, and we're right now engaged in hiring up, staffing up, training, and looking at the software packages that allow us to digitize this to the highest degree.

CUOMO: Governor Grisham --

GRISHAM: Normally we do it in a few years without it.

CUOMO: Say that last point again, Governor, I lost you for a second.

GRISHAM: Well, we are all optimistic, I'm with you. Chris, I'm with you. I want a vaccine tomorrow. If I thought that there was a safe way and that we had the right research capabilities to get that, there is not a governor in the country who is not excited about that potential. And a cure, then we wipe out this particular virus for the worldwide population forever. Perfect.

But I have to plan like every governor that I am in this effort for two years. Even if you have a vaccine in a year from now. Getting everyone vaccinated. Focusing on your vulnerable populations, which in my state is a much higher percentage of the general population than most states.

CUOMO: Right.

GRISHAM: I need as much investment in that infrastructure as possible. Or I can't keep New Mexicans safe. And I'm going to fight until we have it all.

[22:40:00]

CUOMO: Governor, I hear you. And the scary part is I haven't heard any different from anyone.

GRISHAM: Right.

CUOMO: Every governor. Every mayor of any significant population says they are asking us to fly blind. We're doing the best we can.

GRISHAM: Right. CUOMO: We're getting as much testing. Take my brother as an example.

From 20,000 to 40,000. He's got almost 20 million people in the state. How do you open up the whole state when you're only doing 40,000 a day? He says, you don't. You can't. You're being asked to fly blind. It's not fair to you.

GRISHAM: Right.

CUOMO: It's not fair to your citizens. So Governor Grisham, thank you for taking the opportunity tonight, especially late on a Friday when you have all this going on in your state. Please remember this platform is always available to you. Left, right, center, I don't care. If there is a message for you to get out to people about the reality in your state, the needs in your state, we're a call away.

GRISHAM: Well, Chris, I really appreciate that because we all, are in fact, in this together to save as many American lives as we can. So any time you ask, I'll be available.

CUOMO: Thank you, ma'am. Good luck and best of health to mom.

GRISHAM: Thank you very much. I will pass that along. She's a big fan of yours. I fear she might have a crush.

CUOMO: It's the haircut. She's probably confusing me with Anderson. She's trading down if she goes with me. Take care.

The CDC is warning of a critical summer. Why? Because you got to get it right early. Especially when it's easy. It's warm. The virus doesn't spread as much. Density is not as much of a must like it is during the school year. And when people are inside. And therefore in closer quarters for a larger percentage of the day. We've got to get it right now, otherwise what's going to happen when you have the flu, when you have worse weather, when you have more illness, when you have more density?

Let's take it to a man with the plan in the last administration to combat Ebola. What is the reality of where we are and where we need to be? It's a familiar question but we can't get the answer right. So let's keep asking. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:00]

CUOMO: Let's bring in the former Ebola Czar under President Obama, Ron Klain. Welcome back, brother. Couple of quick questions for you and then I'll leave you alone on a Friday night. First, operation warp speed, you like it, you don't like it?

RON KLAIN, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I think anything to accelerate a vaccine is good. But I think slogans aren't going to do it. What we really need is a real investment in the vaccine, and more importantly, Chris, discovering the vaccine, that's the first challenge, but then we need to manufacture hundreds of millions of doses of it and we need to distribute it, get it to the people who need it, get it in people's arms, so we've got a lot of work to do on that front.

I think anything that speeds it up is good, but so far a lot of the administration's initiatives have been more talk than action. We need action on this. This is a life or death problem. It's a very complicated problem and we need to really throw everything at it.

CUOMO: Assuming they put the money into the manufacturing and make the doses as they're going through the phases and the science is not compromised, which so far it doesn't seem like -- it has been, or that they're planning to do it that way. This could be the first thing that they've actually done right.

KLAIN: Well, I certainly hope it is. I mean, I think all Americans do, but I think we have to understand that even if this succeeds, it's still probably very far away. I mean, I think that we're talking about --

CUOMO: They say January.

KLAIN: -- January, February at the earliest, and, boy, I think that is super optimistic. So, really, we have to be focused on what we're doing right now to manage this disease, to get it under control because even if that target's hit, and I'm sorry, I'm skeptical that we'll be having widespread use of a vaccine in January. Even if that's hit, we're a long way from next January, Chris. We got a lot of work to do right now.

CUOMO: Counter this argument. Shut up already with the testing and tracing. We're doing more than anybody else is. We're way ahead of where we were. We had a bad start that we refused to take any responsibility for. I don't care about that part. Let's not discuss it, Ron. It's not worth it. You're not changing any minds. And we're way better than anybody else, so stop talking about it. We're OK. What's the reality of tracing and testing for you?

KLAIN: Well, the reality is, let's forget about where we started. Let's talk about where we are. We had our best day ever as a country on testing. Two days ago, we tested 300,000 people in a country of 300 million people, Chris, so were nowhere near where we need to be. I think experts of all spectrums and perspective say you really need about, you know, 3.5 to 4 million tests a week, so we need to get that up there.

And then as you've talked about on the show, testing is just the first step. You need to trace the cases. We need to see who has it, who they've been in contact with, where they're spreading it. That's the bare minimum we need to have some safety, to not fly blind, as you said in the last segment. There is just no way around that.

Look, you can't fool the virus. There is no spin. There is no ideology. There is no politics of this. The virus is killing people. It's just a fact. We lost 58,000 people in the month that ended yesterday. We're going to lose 10s of thousands of more in this month. Those are realities. The only way to get it under control until there is a vaccine or a cure, the only way to do that is to test who has it and to trace who they've been in contact with. CUOMO: Best pro tip you have right now to inform the leaders on this

situation?

KLAIN: I'm sorry, Chris. I couldn't hear you.

CUOMO: What's your best pro tip for our leaders right now that's not being done yet?

KLAIN: Look, I think the most important thing is to really accelerate the production of the testing supplies. You heard the governor in the last segment say she's got amazing labs in her state, but they just don't have the supplies to get the tests done quickly.

[22:50:04]

We're seeing that all over the country. The federal government needs to use its powers, the defense production act, to mandate the production, to purchase these supplies, to get them wherever they need to be. That is in a short term, the thing that could take us from 300,000 tests today to maybe 500,000 or 600,000 test a day, before we get beyond that. That is the most immediate impactful thing that can make this country safer.

CUOMO: Ron Klain, thank you very much. Have a good weekend stay healthy. I need you. We'll be right back.

KLAIN: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: The center of this fight, New Yorkers have been doing the right thing.

[22:55:00]

Changing the path of the spread by staying at a distance. OK? It's so important to keep up the spirits of the saviors on the front lines and they're doing that beautifully as well. Here's a look on the list.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(PEOPLE CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All remind you of don't you say you care about healthcare workers and then go out and do stupid stuff. Don't go to the beach and get too close to people. I don't go to parties, don't do any of that and tell me you care about healthcare workers. All right, because you are fool of it. That's what they want us to do. That's what keeps the cases down. Period. So, it is a beautiful demonstration of the enthusiasm for the fact that they are working hardest to save us. Our heroes. But let's do what they need as well. Now, what about the treatment front? Where are we on it? This drug approved by the FDA today. Will it make a difference? Two great minds take it up, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)