Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

White House Press Secretary Holds Rare Briefing; Texas Reopens Amid Highest Single-Day Death Toll; Coronavirus Vaccine Timeline?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 01, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And the president is not criticizing them, except for perhaps Georgia. If you recall--

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Yes.

BORGER: -- and that -- so there could be a conflict there, because Fauci and Dr. Birx don't really report to him, in the same way that other people do.

So, I think that may be an issue.

BALDWIN: Yes.

No, we were lucky to have Fauci on last night for our town hall. And here's hoping we'd see more of Fauci and Birx and these scientists--

BORGER: Right.

BALDWIN: -- in addition to these White House briefings. Maybe they will become -- maybe they will be back.

BORGER: Right.

BALDWIN: Gloria, thank you very much.

And thanks to all of you for chatting with me.

I'm going to turn things over to Kate Bolduan.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Our special coverage continues now with Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

It has become a tale of two pandemics. Depending on what state you live in, the next month is going to look very different. And those differences are leading to confusion and tension.

But since this virus knows no borders, the decision of any one state impacts everyone. Keep that in mind as we focus in.

At least 32 states now are easing restrictions, like Texas allowing some businesses to reopen today, and Georgia, which is lifting its stay-at-home order for most residents. But some states are making clear that they are nowhere near that right now, instead extending stay-at-home orders.

That's the case in Michigan. And in a sign of that tension, that this has all -- how tense this has all become, protesters, some of them carrying guns, occupied Michigan's Capitol Building yesterday over the governor's decision to keep restrictions in place until the end of May.

And the death toll keeps rising, with the virus killing more than 63,000 Americans now, more than 1,080,000 people infected. And you have Dr. Anthony Fauci, who doesn't seem confused about any of this at all, warning states that reopening too soon carries enormous risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: You're going to see another peak, a spike. And then you almost have to turn the clock back to go back to mitigation.

So that's the reason why I keep trying to articulate to the public into the leaders, take a look at the guidelines. They don't tell you, because you have reached the end of the 30-day mitigation period, that all of a sudden you switch a light on, and you just go for it.

That's not the way to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And just within the last hour, we learned that New Mexico's governor is ordering the lockdown of a small city near the Arizona border because of a large coronavirus outbreak there.

CNN's Ed Lavandera, he's joining us now with the very latest.

Ed, what is going on with this lockdown in the state? What are you hearing?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the town of Gallup, New Mexico, is about 22,000 people West of Albuquerque. It's in a remote area where medical facilities have been taxed thin for the last few weeks.

This is a community with -- even though it has a population of 22,000 people, has more than 1,000 coronavirus cases. And those cases have jumped by more than 200 in just the last few days.

Because of that, the mayor and the governor have now essentially put the city of Gallup, New Mexico, on lockdown. Starting at noon Mountain Time today, residents will be required to stay in their homes, are only allowed out for essential and emergency visits. People traveling in cars can only have two people in a car at any

given time. And all businesses must be closed down from 5:00 p.m. until 8:00 a.m. This emergency order goes into effect today, and, Kate, lasts until Monday.

So it's just from Friday to Monday, where this is being done. But this is because the city of Gallup, New Mexico, accounts for about 30 percent of the coronavirus cases in the entire state of New Mexico.

As I have mentioned, there's a great deal of concern about those high number of cases, the volume of cases, and what it can do to the small health care system there in that community -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And you wonder if, within that time period, they can kind of stem the tide of where that trend is headed with that small town.

Ed, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

One of the states on the leading edge of reopening is Georgia, this despite the fact that it has yet to meet CDC benchmarks for doing so. And the state also is reporting about 1,000 new cases in just the last 24 hours.

CNN's Martin Savidge, he's been tracking all this, the reopening plans, and now, as they go into place, he's in Atlanta.

Martin, businesses are reopening today. What are you seeing?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, yes, it's been a week now of reopening for the state of Georgia. And it's been an aggressive plan.

The latest addition to that now is malls starting to reopen. This mall behind us here in Atlanta was scheduled to reopen today, and then, at the last minute, they decided to push it off until Monday.

[15:05:00]

But as far as all these businesses reopening, the reaction of the public has been extremely cautious. And now, with new numbers that are coming out from the state as far as new coronavirus cases that are being reported, there's reason to understand that caution.

There's been a spike. Within the last 24 hours, 1,000 new cases of coronavirus have been reported. That brings the total number of confirmed cases in the state 27,000. The number of deaths is now over 1,100.

I should point out that the reason for the spike of cases is also because the state has much more aggressively this week gone after testing. And this is the point that medical critics have made. They have said, look, you should test first and then decide if it's safe to reopen, not reopen and do the testing at the same time.

But the governor here is clearly of the mind-set that the economic calamity of the coronavirus is on equal footing to the pandemic itself, and both have to be dealt with -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Martin, thank you.

So, no matter how effective any treatment for coronavirus is, the one thing that will keep people safe is, of course, a vaccine, or do the best job of keeping people safe.

Dr. Fauci has said that the goal remains to have a vaccine by January, an ambitious timeline of just 12 months, by any standard, but he also cautions now that it's not a sure thing. The vaccines in trial might not work.

With 102 potential coronavirus vaccines in development right now around the world, where do things stand in this quest?

Joining me right now is Dr. Richard Besser. He is former acting director of the CDC, president and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the country's largest philanthropy dedicated to health.

It's good to see you, Doctor. Thank you for coming in.

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Nice to be here, Kate. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

So, this is what the world is waiting for. When it comes to finding a vaccine that works, when you have 102 potential in development, can you put it in perspective of, where are we?

BESSER: Well, I think we can be encouraged that there are so many scientists working on this, that there's 100 vaccines that are potential.

But I think it's -- this is a situation where you need to underpromise and hopefully overdeliver. There are a lot of viral infections that scientists have been working on vaccines for, for decades, and we still don't have those.

So there's no guarantee that we will have a vaccine for this and, if so, that it will prove to be safe and fully effective. So a lot of planning has to be done in -- based on the idea that there may not be a vaccine.

BOLDUAN: That's a great point.

And along the same vein of kind of where are we now, antibody testing, you have said that, right now, when it comes to antibody tests, they're not ready for prime time. And I'm left wondering, what kind of problem does it create when you have these tests out there, but you can't trust the results?

BESSER: Yes, the antibody question and the vaccine question are kind of related, because, in order to know whether a vaccine works, you have to have a validated, a proven way of measuring that someone is immune. And that is what's called an antibody test. It measures protective

factors, antibodies in the bloodstream. The FDA has allowed a lot of tests to go forward with only testing being done by the companies.

And those tests all have to be validated to show that they work. And what you want to know is, is there a certain amount of protective factors that means you can't get this again? If you can't get it again, does it mean you can't transmit coronavirus to somebody else? And if so, how long did those protective factors last?

For some infections, they last a lifetime. For others, they last just a year or two. So those questions are really, really important. And when I hear states thinking about using antibody testing as a way to decide who gets to go back to work, well, we don't have the tests, we don't have the information to be able to do that at this time.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it just -- it feels like the antibody testing is out there right now. It almost just adds like static to what should be really clear and straightforward messaging and information, when it is so -- when everything is so uncertain.

BESSER: Yes, I think that's really an important point.

The antibody test -- the CDC just reported out, in areas of Washington state, looking at some antibody testing, and showing that there hadn't been much transmission in the community. I'm assuming they're using an assay there that they feel pretty good about.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BESSER: But if that's the case, then that means, as these states are opening up, as Georgia, as Texas, as other states open up, there will be those spikes that Dr. Fauci is so concerned about.

And if we don't have in place the public health system to be able to lock this down and control it, we're going to be way worse off than we are right now.

BOLDUAN: Well, I think, given where things are with treatment, with a vaccine, with testing, you have been advising governors as they are working through reopening plans and are trying to make plans in the Northeast, really, in reopening plans.

[15:10:05]

What do these governors need to be considering, if you are presented with the reality of this moment?

BESSER: Well, everybody wants to get people back to work.

The shutdown of the economy, so many people are suffering. But you have to do this slowly, carefully, and based on the best available public health science. And that says you have to have widespread testing available in all communities.

Black Americans and Latinos are getting hit so much harder than other groups by this. You have to have the ability to--

BOLDUAN: Doctor, can I jump in on that, because--

BESSER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Just what Martin Savidge was reporting, and does make any sense, if you don't have wide -- more widespread testing, and then -- and you open up before you have it, the way that what we're seeing in Georgia?

Does that make any sense?

(CROSSTALK)

BESSER: To me, it makes no sense. And here's why.

Right now, the testing is being done on the sickest of patients to figure out if they have to stay in the hospital. To switch gears and reopen, you need to be able to test anyone with symptoms that might suggest even mild coronavirus, because, even though they may not need to be hospitalized--

BOLDUAN: Right.

BESSER: -- they can spread this disease within their communities.

And so, if you're not picking them up, and doing contact tracing and providing safe places for them to isolate or quarantine, you're going to see them leading to what you're seeing in Gallup, New Mexico, where they're the cause of a new outbreak in a community.

BOLDUAN: Also, when you talk about contact tracing, it seems to be the least-talked-about important aspect of outbreak response.

Bill Gates talked about it during the CNN town hall last night and saying that, even at this point, it could be ramped up really quickly, and in a big way.

Let me play what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GATES, CO-CHAIR, BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: It's not that hard. It's not like we don't have people, like everybody in America is tied up doing important work.

You can train somebody to do this work fairly quickly. Remember, we're spending trillions for the economic relief here, so the idea that we actually get serious about the health-related thing, like the testing, it seems pretty obvious that there should be clear federal guidelines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you agree?

BESSER: Yes. Just imagine if there was a corps of hundreds of thousands of trained

people from all communities around America, representing the diversity of our nation, that was doing this.

It isn't hard work. It's been the basic of tuberculosis controls, STD control. Doing this kind of work is critically important.

But the other piece of it that no one's talking about is that, when you identify someone, you have to have a safe place for them to stay.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BESSER: And some countries are using hotels and dormitories. We're not talking about that, and that's going to cost money.

But if we truly want every family to be safe, you need to have that in place.

BOLDUAN: That is a great point.

Doctor, thank you so much. It's good to see you.

BESSER: Nice to see you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Coming up for us: Texas begins its first wave of reopenings now, just one day after reporting its deadliest day of the pandemic. Should the state be reconsidering right now?

And, later, several universities are preparing to bring students back on campus for on-campus, in-classroom learning this fall. But how do you keep thousands of students in dorms and classrooms safe?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:42]

BOLDUAN: The biggest one-day increase in deaths, that is what Texas reported just yesterday.

Today, Texas is moving ahead with allowing businesses to reopen, restaurants, shops and theaters opening -- they're allowed to, at least, open their doors once again to customers.

Dallas County specifically right now has seen the largest spike in new coronavirus cases.

Joining me right now, Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins. He's the chief elected official of the county.

Judge, thank you for being here.

Your state is reopening. You have said you think the governor has moved too fast here. What is your message then to people in Dallas today? JUDGE CLAY JENKINS, DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS: Well, the messages, the

rules from the governor may change, but the underlying science has not.

So, until we see a two-week decline in cases, you need to stay home and stay safe. You need to avoid those unnecessary trips. And when you make one, make sure to wear your face covering and stay six feet apart.

BOLDUAN: Do you think people are listening to you, or who do you think they're listening to?

JENKINS: Well, I think different people will do different things.

Most businesses in Dallas are remaining closed. The governor said we can all go back to church and have hundreds of people in churches. And our houses of worship all said, no, thank you, we will stay closed.

And so we live here. We recognize the situation here is a serious situation. So, most people are still making good choices. And it's going to -- in the face of the governor allowing people to go back to movie theaters and crowded churches and whatnot, it's going to be imperative that each one of us make those good choices.

Look, this -- this virus is not Democrat or Republican, right? The virus doesn't care.

BOLDUAN: Right.

JENKINS: The virus is just biological.

So what we're recommending to people is that you go to CDC.gov. You listen to those voices. You listen to the infectious disease and epidemiology experts at your local hospitals and your public health authorities.

After all, those are the voices that plan their entire adult life to tell you what is safe in times like this. It's going to be up to all of us now, with the governor's orders, not to do what we can do, but to do what we should do to keep ourselves and each other safe.

[15:20:08]

BOLDUAN: The other -- another side of this is -- and I will show a video for our viewers -- we see these long lines of cars in Dallas, of people lining up in their cars, waiting to get access to food banks.

So people are hurting. We know that. People want, need to get back to work at the same time. So, what do you say to them?

JENKINS: You know, it's hard.

And this pandemic is taking a great toll on people. But the best way for us to get back to work and to get our lives back to some semblance of normal is to see that two-week decline, and then we can begin to open up our activities and do more and go more places, right, because that's what science tells us gives us our best chance not to see a huge spike.

Right now, we're going like this. So, if you go out and you loosen up, and you start having backyard barbecues, and doing things that the science says you shouldn't do, then that spike is going to go like this. It's going be that much longer before we can get back to a sustainable economy.

BOLDUAN: The governor -- look, the governor doesn't want to see Texans get sick. The governor doesn't want to see more Texans get infected, and, God forbid, you know, die from this disease.

Do you think he is seeing something that you don't?

JENKINS: I think the governor has to listen to a lot of voices. And it's a big state.

And, unfortunately, he decided not to differentiate between places like Dallas and Houston, where you're seeing significant community spread, and places like Waco and Abilene, where it's pretty small.

And so, look, he's hearing a lot of voices. And the loudest voice is never science, right? And the most powerful voice is never science. But, in times like this, it is science that will see us through it.

And so the voice that you need to listen to, if you're watching this program, is science. Don't take my word for it. Look into what the CDC and the public health authority tells you to do, and follow that.

I have done that. I have made my peace with, it's not a time for me to try to figure out what science is. It's a time for me to listen to the experts and act decisively on that to keep you safe.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

Judge, thank you for coming in. I really appreciate it.

JENKINS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: The White House today doing something that it hasn't in well over a year, 417 days, to be exact, a White House press secretary holding an official White House briefing from the White House Briefing Room.

The newly installed press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, just wrapped up taking questions from reporters.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins, she's at the White House. She joins me now.

Kaitlan, how did it go?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it's notable.

We have not seen someone in this role in a formal press secretary job behind that podium since March 2019, when Sarah Sanders still had the job. There was a whole 'nother press secretary in between there who never briefed reporters, like you saw Kayleigh McEnany do today.

And she said she does expect to make the briefings more regular occurrences, after they had been completely phased out by the White House. And people had been wondering that, because the president had been coming out so much, they wondered if they could just go back to doing no briefings whatsoever, after he stopped doing those briefings, Kate.

So she came out. She answered several questions about the news of the day. One of these really namely has been about this intelligence report -- or this comment that the president made yesterday, after you saw the Office of the Director of National Intelligence put out a pretty rare statement, where they said it was on behalf of the entire intelligence community, and that they agreed with the scientific conclusion that the coronavirus was not manmade or genetically modified, but said they were still investigating whether it came from contact with infected animals or if it originated as a part of a lab accident in China.

That seemed to contradict the president, who hours later said he had seen evidence that the coronavirus had come from a lab in China, something that, of course, that statement did not say.

And so McEnany who was asked about the differences in these two statements from the intelligence community and from the president. This is what she said about that:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's statement is consistent with the other intelligence assessments.

While we continue to have very limited and dubious data from China, current assessments indicated that President Trump's statement is consistent with what some analysts believe is the epicenter of where the virus began.

And I would note, that intelligence statement you're referring to really made two points, one, that this virus originated in China, two, that it began through contact with infected animals or was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.

So I consider that consistent with what the president said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So, Kate, we're still waiting to learn more about this.

[15:25:01]

The president acted surprised by that statement put out by the director of the National Intelligence Office yesterday.

BOLDUAN: Right.

COLLINS: He kept asking who wrote it. But we likely will get more on this, because, remember, the next person the president has nominated for that top job is going to have his confirmation hearing on Tuesday.

That's John Ratcliffe. He's going to go before the Senate for that confirmation hearing. So he's likely going to be asked about this by those senators who want to know more about what it is that the president is saying he ha seen and this intelligence that he's citing, but not really offering up to reporters, saying he can't reveal that.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

I mean, when it comes down to it, he can, right? The president can declassify anything he wants if he wants to. We have known that from the beginning, and we have seen this time and time again.

It's good to see you, Kaitlan.

Coming up still ahead for us: Will in-person, on-campus college classes return in the fall? Some class -- some schools are planning on it, and planning for it.

The president of the University of Oregon joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)