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Large Crowd Packs National Mall For Blue Angels Flyover; U.S. Makes Big Bet On Vaccine Company With Unproven Technology; Thirty Million Americans Filed Jobless Claims In The Past Six Weeks; New Yorkers Flock Outside Despite Governor Extending Stay-At-Home Order; Interview With Mayor Bill de Blasio (D), New York City; Trump On Kim Jong-un: "Glad to See He Is Back and Well.". Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 2, 2020 - 17:00   ET



ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Thanks for being here. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York, and more states this weekend, more governors, letting businesses open, letting stores and parks open, despite some public health officials insisting it is too soon and too risky.

People in more than half of the U.S., at least 32 states, are beginning to see their states reopening after weeks of being told to just stay home. The loosened restrictions range from the opening of restaurants and state parks in some parts of the country to golf courses and churches. If current plans hold, more than 40 states will have some degree of loosened restrictions by next weekend.

Now Monday will be the first day back to the office for many people in Colorado, with the state-mandated 50 percent capacity. In Montana, bars and breweries and some stores can start letting customers in Monday under strict social distancing rules.

We also have some optimistic news on the treatment front this weekend. The FDA has approved an experimental drug to fight the coronavirus. It is called Remdesivir, and researchers say it may help patients who have COVID-19 recover more quickly. The FDA issued an emergency use authorization for this drug just yesterday.

Now let's begin in Washington, D.C., where despite a stay-at-home order still in place there, large crowds flocked to the National Mall to witness the flyover of the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds honoring essential workers. And CNN's Sarah Westwood is on the scene for us there at the National Mall.

Sarah, the Blue Angels and security officials asked people not to go there, not to congregate, yet the crowds were substantial.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. Pictures do appear to show a fairly significant crowd did gather here on the National Mall behind me. As you can see, there are still a number of people who are out here today. It's, of course, beautiful, which surely drove a number of people from their houses. Now as you mentioned, the Blue Angels and the Thunder Birds were

performing this flyover for essential workers, for doctors and nurses. I was there earlier today, it was around noon, I watched from behind the capitol building and people did appear to be attempting to practice social distancing where possible, staying about six feet apart but that was difficult once the flyover was over.

People started flowing back on to the sidewalks, heading back to their houses. About half of the people that we saw were wearing masks. Now, D.C. officials say that in this city, it is not at all clear that the peak of cases of COVID-19 has reached Washington. There are nearly 4800 positive cases of COVID-19 so far in Washington, 240 people have died.

Now, we have reached out to the mayor's office and to the Air Force for comment on the fact that people did congregate despite the wishes of city officials and of the Blue Angels and the Thunder Birds who warned people in the three cities where these flyovers took place not to congregate, to try to watch the flyovers from home and especially not to go to any monuments or places -- specific places to gather and watch this flyover.

Now, even though, as you mentioned, there are places across the country that are starting to reopen, Washington, D.C., is not one of them. There is stay-at-home order in place in the nation's capital until at least May 15th and that could, of course, be extended so that is not the case here in D.C. People have been asked to remain home here -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Sarah Westwood in Washington, D.C., for us. Thank you.

The Blue Angels and the Thunder Birds also flew over Atlanta this afternoon. This was the scene there as people flocked to a local park to watch that flyover. They do seem to be giving each other some space, though, at least from our images here.

The statewide stay-at-home order expired in Georgia on Thursday night and Governor Brian Kemp is still encouraging residents to practice social distancing and wear face coverings in public settings.

Now to the race to develop an effective coronavirus vaccine. The company that is creating the most buzz got nearly a half billion dollars from the federal government, but it has never brought an approved vaccine to market.

CNN's Senior Investigative Correspondent, Drew Griffin explains why so many people are pinning their hopes on this unproven technology.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three weeks ago, Ian Haydon was injected with one of the first possible vaccines against the novel coronavirus. He runs, takes his temperature several times a day, and he has not gotten sick.

IAN HAYDON, VACCINE TRIAL PARTICIPANT: Today, I feel exactly like I did two months ago. I've absolutely no symptoms, nothing to report.

GRIFFIN: Haydon was injected with a vaccine using a new medical technology developed by a company called Moderna, which has never had a drug or vaccine approved for market. The basic technology, synthesizing messenger RNA, a molecule in a person's body, prompting the body to make its own medicine. In this case, directing living cells to kill off any novel coronavirus.


In theory, the science behind the vaccine should work. In reality, no one knows for sure. Moderna CEO promoted the company's technology and speed at this meeting at the White House March 2nd, which President Trump ran like an episode of "Shark Tank".


GRIFFIN: Most of the companies were talking vaccines some time in 2021. When Moderna's CEO Stephane Bancel took his turn, he told the president this.

STEPHANE BANCEL, MODERNA CEO: And then, it will be a few months to get the human data that will allow us to pick a therapeutic dose to start the phase two right away.

TRUMP: So, you're talking over the next few months, you think you could have a vaccine.

BANCEL: Correct, correct, for phase two.


DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: You won't have a vaccine. You'll have a vaccine to go into testing.

BANCEL: To phase two, yes.

GRIFFIN: Dr. Anthony Fauci tried to temper the enthusiasm.

TRUMP: I like the sound of a couple of months better, I must be honest.

GRIFFIN: The next day, the FDA green-lit Moderna's product for a trial. And within weeks, the federal government pledged to give Moderna up to $483 million, more than any other vaccine company.

Moderna had an edge over other companies. Its scientists had already been collaborating with the NIH on a vaccine for another similar virus, so it was able to quickly pivot. But Professor Nikolai Petrovsky, who's working with a competitor to Moderna, is just one of the experts who question whether the U.S. government's investment makes sense.

NIKOLAI PETROVSKY, FLINDERS UNIVERSITY, AUSTRALIA: If we want to really have an impact on this pandemic, then we should be using vaccine platforms that are being proved to be safe and effective, rather than an unproven technology.

DR. TAL ZAKS, MODERNA'S CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: We have delivered on everything that we have promised.

GRIFFIN: Dr. Tal Zaks is Moderna's chief medical officer, interviewed via computer from his base in Boston.

ZAKS: Actually, the public investment proportionately is a small investment on top of what this company has invested in its core technology for years now.

GRIFFIN: For the last decade, the company has been trying to use its mRNA technology to cure cancer, restore damaged tissues, even cure heart disease and develop vaccines. The research promising, the results mixed.

(On camera): Moderna has never brought a vaccine to market, never had a drug FDA approved. And skeptics are wondering why your company was able to achieve this contract.

ZAKS: We're a young company with an emerging technology. And for that reason, we have not yet brought anything to full licensure. We have time and again demonstrated clinical results in phase one across multiple different vaccine applications.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): But vaccine development is tough. Even the lead investigator for Moderna's vaccine trial at Emory University says nothing is certain.

DR. EVAN ANDERSON, EMORY UNIVERSITY: If it's successful, it could allow us to shorten the timeline for developing new vaccines in the future. But it comes with its own challenges.

GRIFFIN: Dr. Evan Anderson says challenges for this type of vaccine include that it's difficult to store, difficult to mass-produce, and no one knows yet whether it's effective. The NIH is testing Moderna's vaccine on humans without waiting for animal trials. A speed that was unheard of before the pandemic.

The company is already preparing to produce its vaccine in mass quantities on the sheer hope it gets approved and can be distributed almost immediately.

ZAKS: The biggest source of pressure is the fact that, you know, this is personal. I think for my colleagues and I who are in the frontline of trying to develop a vaccine it's an equal weight of the sense of potential that we can do something about it and a tremendous sense of responsibility that we have to do something about it.


GRIFFIN: Ana, as Moderna seeks to move towards phase two and phase three trials of this vaccine, it's also partnering with a pharmaceutical company to ramp up manufacturing. If this does get some sort of approval, the company says it could begin delivering vaccines as early as late 2020 in the millions of doses a month and tens of millions of doses by 2021 -- Ana.

CABRERA: Yes. We all hope it's successful. Thank you, Drew.

Joining us now, Dr. William Schaffner, professor of the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, and Dr. Darria Long, emergency physician in the University of Tennessee Health System.

Dr. Schaffner, historically, it has taken years to do human clinical trials and get vaccines approved for polio, for instance. In the 1950s, it took about three years, it took about that long for Rubella, that vaccine in the 1960s. It took two years for mumps. Many take much longer. So, does it give you pause when a company says it can guarantee a safe vaccine within months?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, DIRECTOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, they can't guarantee it. They have to demonstrate it. And yes, we're all skeptical. We're looking at the data. But the technology is different today, and this vaccine is being built on the basis of technology that's been explored before, so we do have a lot of safety data on the basis of vaccines that were made in a very similar way and have gone through clinical trials. So, we're not cutting corners here, but we have the capacity today to move faster.


CABRERA: That feels good to hear. That's for sure.

Dr. Long, I wanted to ask you about something we've heard from Dr. Fauci at the town hall on Thursday. He issued a pretty scary warning about many things that can go wrong when testing a vaccine. Let's listen to that.


FAUCI: Just say I have a vaccine throw into people, what people don't appreciate, because they're so intent to getting a vaccine quickly, is that there could be deleterious, negative effects of enhancement of infection.


CABRERA: Dr. Long, I have read that most vaccine attempts fail. If that is the case, how far along in the process does it take a company to determine this product works and is safe?

DR. DARRIA LONG, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE HEALTH SYSTEM: Ana, you're exactly right. For all of the vaccine candidates that may exist, very few will actually make it to market. That's why we have all these different phases of trials. That's why I think it's very wise idea for us to invest in a number of different options and definitely not put all of our eggs in one basket, so that we can be sure that something will be able to come to market.

I do think that a number of companies are doing something that is wise that they mentioned in the packet ahead of time and that is manufacturing at risk. That means they're going ahead to determine, let's figure out how to manufacture this vaccine, before we know which one will actually work. It's a financial risk, but it's going to save us a lot of time in actually getting -- once we figure out what works, getting it to market.

CABRERA: Dr. Schaffner, the people in Moderna's trial are getting injected with this vaccine that has not been previously tried out in animals. They got permission from the NIH to do that but how unusual is it for a vaccine to be tested on humans without first being tested on animals?

SCHAFFNER: Well, mind you, Ana, this company has used very similar vaccines in other circumstances, and the FDA is using the safety data that has been garnered before to permit this vaccine to go forward in people. If it hadn't been used before, I don't think they would have done that. They would have gone through animals first. But that work has been done previously using other vaccines that are created in an entirely similar way.

CABRERA: Dr. Long, what do you think? Would you feel comfortable being injected with that vaccine? I mean, I know that one of the potential risks is that a vaccine that's in development could actually make a virus worse, make the symptoms worse, and that's when you realize, OK, this is the vaccine that we're not going to use, obviously, but that's -- isn't that the whole reason for doing animal trials first?

LONG: Well, that's the whole reason why we have this series of clinical trials and the way that we typically do it. As Dr. Schaffner mentioned, this is technology that has existed before and we're in the setting of a pandemic which means that we may not follow the exact same protocols that we have before but I think we need to be very careful about that. We need to not cut corners in a way that's a kneejerk or emotional way.

We need to do so in a very systematic way to weigh the cost and benefit so that we don't, to your point, inject people with something that is risky and end up with some deleterious consequences. I think we need to do that for two reasons. One, we need to make sure that the vaccine that comes to market is safe and it is effective. And secondly, we need to make sure that our population can trust this vaccine so that they're willing to go ahead and get it. That's just as important.

CABRERA: Dr. Schaffner, the World Health Organization says 102 potential coronavirus vaccines are in development around the world. Aid of the potential vaccines are already approved for clinical trials. Is it possible we could end up with more than one vaccine?

SCHAFFNER: Well, exactly as Dr. Long has said, we're not putting our eggs all in one basket. There are scientists around the world trying to develop vaccines using a variety of different technologies. It's a little bit of a race, and we hope that a number of them are successful.

And apropos of taking vaccines as a volunteer, I can tell you I've been a vaccine volunteer in a number of different vaccine trials. There are a lot of people who are willing to do that, fully informed that there might be some risk.

CABRERA: And Dr. Schaffner, let me just come back to you, though, for a second because you have talked about how the technology being used and this vaccine had sort of a head start in some ways. How long will it take, do you think, before we know that there is some efficacy here? Even if it's not, you know, all the way through the process, at what part in the process do you get that kind of aha moment?

SCHAFFNER: The aha moment comes after the largest trial in which you have a group of people who the largest trial in which you have a group of people who got the vaccine, a group of people who did not, they received a placebo. You don't know who's who. You watch them for a period of time, and then you see who got sick and who didn't, and then you have the big reveal.


Now, I'm not close to this trial, so I don't know the exact timeline, but we've heard that it might have information really by late this fall, early winter.

CABRERA: Dr. Long, do you believe the coronavirus is going to be like the flu in that vaccine effectiveness will vary year to year, for example, a flu shot might be 60 percent effective one year and then less than 20 percent another year?

LONG: So, Ana, that is something that we're all looking at. It does not seem that the COVID virus mutates at exactly the same speed as flu, which could be a very good thing. But to that point, also, there are some pharmaceutical companies that are aiming to create a vaccine that may be just effective for a year or two, with the thought being that if you do that, it's easier to make that vaccine. It can get us to market faster, and at least that puts us a year or two ahead and then we can be developing the next solution with time and get back to normal sooner.

CABRERA: Dr. Darria Long and Dr. William Schaffner, it's really great to have you both here. We appreciate your experience and expertise on this. Thank you.

LONG: Thank you.

SCHAFFNER: My pleasure.

CABRERA: The numbers are completely unprecedented. More than 30 million Americans filing jobless claims in the past six weeks. When will the economy be able to recover? We'll ask the experts next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.



CABRERA: No community has been spared from the unprecedented economic chaos caused by the coronavirus pandemic. In the past week, 3.8 million Americans filed jobless claims. That means that in the past six weeks, a total of more than 30 million Americans have filed unemployment claims.

These are not just data points. They are everyday Americans who are now struggling to survive without a paycheck and have no indication when they will be able to get one.

With us now is CNN's Chief Business Correspondent, Christine Romans and the chief economist at Moody's Analytics, Mark Zandi.

Mark, the next jobs report will be released Friday. It's expected to show 14 percent unemployment in April. However, you believe unemployment, including underemployment, may actually be closer to 25 percent right now. America has only seen that one other time, the Great Depression in the 1930s. Explain why you think it's that high and have we hit rock bottom?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Yes, that's right, Ana. You know, to be counted as unemployed, you have to be out of work and you have to be actively searching for another job. Of course, on these shelter-in-place rules, many people can't actively look for work. It's just not something they can do. So they won't be counted as officially unemployed.

But if you look at the folks that are not counted as unemployed in that situation, add them back in and also consider all of the other underemployed people who have lost hours that, you know, they would like to work more hours but they've lost hours, I think 25 percent of the labor force will be underemployed. And you're right, you have to go all the way back to the 1930s depression to find that. 1933, to be exact, so that just gives you a sense of how much stress is out there across the country.

CABRERA: Christine, rent was due on the 1st --

ZANDI: I should say, Ana, one other point. You asked me --

CABRERA: Go ahead.

ZANDI: You asked me, when would -- just to finish off your question. You asked me when would be -- when would we see the worst of it? I do think April will be the worst of it with the business reopenings we're now starting to see across the country, I do think if not in May, with the May report, but certainly with the June, July reports we should start to see some job growth and unemployment start to come in.

So April will be, I think, with a little bit of luck, and hopefully a vaccine in the not-too-distant future, April will end up being the very worst month for the economy.

CABRERA: Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed but not holding my breath because, Christine, we know rent was due on the 1st.


CABRERA: That's just Friday. We know in April, a third of rent payments weren't made. How much worse do you expect the May numbers to be? And what do you see as the domino effect of those missed rent payments?

ROMANS: Well, I think the money has got to get into people's pockets, and you've seen millions of people get these stimulus checks, that's really, really important. The small business loan program, incredibly important for main street. It has been clunky, there is still a lot of frustration and anxiety about that, but the money is beginning to flow.

You have, you know, stimulus and bailouts worth about $2.5 trillion -- more than $2.5 trillion in the economy right now. As quickly as that money can get into people's pockets, I think that is going to at least keep people whole.

You know, I'm really concerned that people don't know what's all in the CARES Act to help them. There was a lot of confusion about whether you could delay your mortgage payment in April and again in May. Talk to your lender. If you have a federally backed loan, you should be able to get some sort of forbearance. There was some real confusion about whether you had to pay everything back then in July, if you had three months of a pause.

You know, go back to your lender and see what you can do. And talk to your -- you know, talk to your landlord if you can't pay the rent and explain, I didn't get my stimulus check yet or I haven't gotten my unemployment benefits. There are unemployment benefits that are pretty generous under the CARES Act, and that extra $600 or so a week that the federal government has promised hasn't reached it to everybody yet. That will be retroactive so there could be money flowing soon.

CABRERA: Let me play something the president said this week about the economy. Let's listen.


TRUMP: Well, I think we're going to have a great third quarter, and it's going to be a transition, so when I say great, I think the transition's going to be really terrific. And we're going to take it into the fourth and I think we're going to have, potentially, a great fourth quarter. There's tremendous pent-up demand.


CABRERA: So, Mark, you expressed optimism that with some of these reopenings, maybe we have hit rock bottom, but do you agree there that there's enough pent-up demand for the economy to completely bounce back by the end of the year?


ZANDI: Well, the president's half right. The third quarter should be a good quarter because we are reopening up businesses, 31 states are now in the process of opening up. That should help to lift jobs and growth as we make our way through the summer months. But he's wrong on the other side of that. Once those businesses have largely reopened, those that can reopen, because there will be many businesses that will fail, they won't make their way through all of this. But on the other side of this, unemployment will still be high. I

don't -- I think that it's going to feel like the economy's in quick sand until we have some kind of medical solution to this. Hopefully that vaccine but if not a vaccine, certainly a therapy that makes us all feel more comfortable about things. Because until that day, I just don't see people coming out of the bunker in any significant way and until they do, I don't see this economy kicking into a higher gear. So, Q4, early next year, I think, will be a slog.

CABRERA: To Mark's point, Christine, even as states begin to allow states to reopen, it doesn't necessarily mean the consumers will automatically be flocking back to shopping malls or restaurants. How much do you think the public health piece will impact consumer behavior and whether the economy will bounce back?

ROMANS: The science is 100 percent of the consumer confidence piece of it. 100 percent. And people are not going to go and put their own families at risk. I don't think they're going to go back to the way life was in January or February for some time. It will be a new way Americans interact. And if there's any kind of a flare-up or any kind of the curve, you know, steepening again, I think that could be devastating for consumer confidence.

So, I think that every business -- and I know a lot of big companies are being very careful about this, trying to figure out how to bring employees back, how to have shoppers or their customers feel safe. A lot is being done on the business level to sort of bring that confidence back, but the public health part of it has to be addressed and fixed first before consumers will feel confident again and all the polls I've seen show that the majority of people are not going to go back to their old habits just because there are reopenings.

CABRERA: We talked with a woman from the airline industry, the Flight Attendants Association, talking about how the future of travel is going to end up being so different.

ROMANS: Of course.

CABRERA: And how right now it is, you know, crickets on those planes.

ZANDI: Sure.

CABRERA: Christine Romans, Mark Zandi, I really appreciate both of you. Thank you.

Coming up, data indicates there may be a glimmer of hope in New York City's fight against the coronavirus. As you can see, it's a beautiful, sunny day in the city. Lot of people are getting outside. Officials are pleading with residents not to ease up on social distancing. Mayor Bill de Blasio is emphasizing the city is not out of the woods. He'll join me live to explain why next.


[17:32:04] CABRERA: This weekend, in New York, roughly 1,000 NYPD officers are enforcing social distancing rules. But signs of quarantine fatigue are certainly there. Take a look at Central Park. You can see quite a few people are out, despite the governor extending the state's stay-at- home order.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is there live for us.

Give us the latest, Polo.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ana. We're here at one of the many entrances to Central Park. It's certainly not surprising on such a beautiful day that there are many people having a tough time resisting that urge to be outside, to make any necessary errands that they may want to do.

But at the same time, there are other people that are sort of taking leisurely strolls out on this beautiful day.

Of course, this is at the same time coming on the same week as we heard from New York City officials that those numbers are certainly still alarming.

For example, we heard from Governor Andrew Cuomo today say that the number of deaths are still obnoxious least and terribly high, to use his words.

Also, the rate of infection, at least 900 a day across the state is also something that's quite alarming.

Of course, officials here in New York State are trying to turn to those hospital administrators and hospital staff as they try to find out exactly how these people are still getting sick.

In the meantime, here in the streets of New York, people are out and about. What we have heard from the NYPD is that they continue to remind the public of those guidelines that are in place, to cover your face if you're out and about, of course, to have those masks on hand, especially if you're unable to keep that social distancing, to social distance, and to stay at home if you don't necessarily have to head out.

And that's something that we're seeing, of course, in some parts of New York. But for the most part, yes, there are people out and about.

So officials are certainly recommending if you are going to be doing that, to simply take these precautions to not only keep yourself safe but also those around you as well -- Ana?

CABRERA: OK. Polo Sandoval, thank you.

Let's bring in New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio.

Mayor, good to have you with us.

What is your reaction to the crowds out at Central Park today? BILL DE BLASIO, (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Ana, we expected this and

prepared for this. NYPD is out in force and other city agencies out there with a very clear message I've been giving people all week, which is, if you want to go out for a while, get some exercise, get some fresh air, that's totally understandable.

Don't linger too long. Get back home. While you're out there, keep that face covering on, keep that social distance.

But anyone who tries to resist these basic rules and tries to create a public gathering, for example, or tries to put together a sports event or anything like that, the NYPD is going to immediately give them a summons. And these are hefty summons. And we're going to be very uncompromising about it, Ana.

If everyone follows the rules, that's great. But if not, there's going to be very intense enforcement.

CABRERA: What does that look like so far? Have people been following the rules? Do you have an update on how --


DE BLASIO: Yes. I saw the enforcement numbers from an hour or so ago and they looked, actually, quite good. The vast majority of people have gotten the message.


And that's the story of New York City over these past weeks, Ana. People have heard that we need them to stay home overwhelmingly. They have, even with good weather, they've gone out for a while, but then they get back home.

Our kids, obviously, have been at home. That's been tough on them. But families have been doing that the right way.

And people are overwhelmingly abiding by that social distancing. More and more people putting on the face coverings. We're giving them out for free today all over the city to make it easier for people.

So New Yorkers have been pretty amazing in following rules in a place where it's tough. There's so many people in one place and yet New Yorkers are doing their job here.

CABRERA: And like you said, it seems to be having an impact. There are a number of positive signs that we've seen this week, from the Navy ship "Comfort" departing to the Javits field center no longer accepting any new patients. The Central Park Hospital will stop accepting patients on Monday. And we know the NYPD is getting healthier from at one point having 21 percent of the workforce out sick to 7 percent out sick. So these are all positive signs.

Is it safe to say the worst is behind New York?

DE BLASIO: Ana, I want to say that. But I want to also acknowledge this is a ferocious disease. Never turn your back on this disease. Never discount it. The way we're going to ensure that the worst is behind us is by keeping up these tough rules.

So, we, of course, we all want to restart, but we're not going to restart until we have harder evidence that we've turned the corner.

I agree with what the governor said earlier. We're talking about New York City alone, thousands more people testing positive each day, hundreds more deaths each day. We are not out of the woods. And we're not going to rush it. We're going to make sure that we're absolutely certain we've beat back this disease.

Now to do that, Ana, this month, we're initiating a huge testing program, testing people and then tracing their contacts, and then those people get tested too, and quarantining people who test positive to help reduce the spread.

We do not have all the testing capacity we need. This is still one of the biggest problems in this whole horrible crisis we've been through. The federal government has still not led the way on testing, even at this hour. We do not have the lab capacity we need to get to the kind of level of testing, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands a day is what we really need.

So this is going to be a struggle. And if the federal government will do its job, we can do it a lot quicker, but I haven't seen that evidence yet.

CABRERA: So you're talking about diagnostic testing. There's also been a lot of antibody testing happening in New York. And we've learned about 20 percent of those tested in New York City have tested positive for antibodies.

What do those numbers tell you, and where would you like those numbers to be in terms of making decisions on how best to move forward?

DE BLASIO: The antibody testing is imperfect. We know this. Dr. Fauci and others have been very clear about it.

So it tells us something. It tells us something about exposure. It does not tell us for sure that people can't get the disease again. We tell anyone, even if you've had the test, yes, I keep taking all the precautions.

The diagnostic testing, I think, is, in many ways, more valuable for what we have to do now, which is to figure out who needs to be isolated while they might be transmitting the disease so we can really, really squeeze that, you know, the disease and reduce the transmission.

So, we'll be using both, but my goal here is widespread diagnostic testing as the leading edge of this.

CABRERA: And yet, time is ticking and people aren't getting paid.

You told Wolf Blitzer here on CNN last night that you have a $7.4 billion gap in your budget and that you, along with mayors all over the country, are having to think about furloughing or even laying off public employees, like police officers, firefighters, health care workers, sanitation workers, teachers.

I mean, is that something you are seriously considering? Those jobs are on the table?

DE BLASIO: Ana, it's horrible to say, but it's not only me considering it. I have talked to mayors around the country, Republican and Democrat both. Some of them already instituting furloughs, some of them are already planning on layoffs, not because they want to. They think it will be horrible for their city. They think it's going to hold back the recovery.

I can tell you, if we have to make those kinds of choices, if we cannot provide basic services, it will be much, much harder to ever get to the day where we restart our economy and lead a national recovery. And New York City and all cities have to be part of a national recovery.

Right now, if we do not get stimulus funding that makes us whole, in my case, a $7.4 billion budget deficit, just for the next year, let alone for the future, and the same is happening to cities and counties and states all over the country, if we're not made whole, we cannot be a part of this recovery because we'll be laying people off just when you want to be hiring more and more people.

And, Ana, I remind you that last stimulus three, it gave $58 billion to the airline industry alone. How on earth are America's cities and counties and states being left out? We cannot let that happen if we expect to see a recovery in this country.


CABRERA: Well, according to the White House economic advisor, Kevin Hassett, that may be what happens. He said there may not be another stimulus bill. Here he is just this morning.


KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: Right, well, the president has said that he categorically rejects the idea of a bailout for states that have been irresponsible for a long time.

But to the extent that the costs of COVID on states, you know, blue and red, you know, on all of them, are high enough that maybe they need financial support, then he's willing to negotiate about that should there be a phase four deal.

I think, right now, because there's been good news, really, that the opening up is starting to happen, you know, faster than we expected, appears to be doing so safely, then there's a chance that we won't really need a phase four.


CABRERA: What's your reaction to that?

DE BLASIO: Ana, it's outrageous. And it really disgusts me. You have cities and states, it is not their fault that this horrible coronavirus came to our country. The only fault lies in Washington that, when we could have stopped it with testing, our federal government did not provide it to us.

And so now you have cities and states that are suffering, people are suffering. And our -- is this guy serious?

If we end up without the support we need and we have to lay off firefighters, police officers, health care workers, teachers, sanitation workers, is he saying it's our fault that the coronavirus came to our shores, to our city? That's outrageous. And that's inappropriate.

And anyone who says that bluntly should be fired because it's disrespectful to the first responders and the health care workers who have been the heroes in this crisis and now have to wonder if their job's going to be there in a few months.

CABRERA: Mayor Bill De Blasio, we appreciate you taking the time. It's a tough task that you have ahead of you. Thank you. And we wish you all the best and of course all the people of New York City.

DE BLASIO: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Thank you.

Breaking news. After days of speculation about his health, North Korean state media has released this image. They say it's Kim Jong-un smiling and waving and cutting the red tape there. President Trump has just reacted to this. We'll bring you the latest, next.



CABRERA: Now to some breaking news. President Trump tweeting on the status of Kim Jong-un after weeks of speculation about the North Korean leader's health. The president saying, quote, "I, for one, am glad to see he is back all well."

That tweet comes after North Korean state media released this image of Kim that they say is of him attending the opening of a new factory. CNN cannot independently confirm the photo or the date when this was shot.

CNN Correspondent, Will Ripley, has been to North Korea 19 times. He's joining us live from Tokyo.

Will, we heard he was seriously ill, had missed some big public events. What should we read into this photo?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, it's not just a photo, but North Korean state media released a very long video that does seem to show that Kim Jong-un is alive and, as President Trump put it, he's back.

But the unanswered question, the question we may never get the answer to is: Back from what?

Kim Jong-un vanished from public view for three weeks. He was last seen in public on April 11th at a bureau meeting. He missed the Day of the Sun holiday several days later, the celebration of his grandfather's birthday, the North Korean founder. That has never happened in his nearly nine years of ruling North Korea.

And that led to CNN reporting intelligence that Kim had a surgical procedure and may have been in grave danger.

Now, a lot of people are looking at this video and photo as proof that that reporting was completely incorrect. I'm not convinced. And a lot of other medical professionals who are looking at the video and the photos aren't necessarily convinced either.

Because you can see, on one hand, all the people in the crowd have surgical face masks on along with Kim's security detail, even though North Korea has denied having a single case of coronavirus inside the country. Kim is driving around on a golf cart, which is the same golf cart that he was seen using back in 2014 after he reportedly had surgery on his ankle.

There's even doctors looking at every frame of the video, trying to see are there any marks on Kim that could indicate some kind of a surgical procedure. We've had our health team look. They say it's inconclusive.

But in a country as secretive as North Korea, Ana, we have to look at all these little clues to try to figure out something that North Korea isn't telling us, why was he gone for so long.

CABRERA: Thank you, as always. Thank you for your reporting.

A quick programming note now. Join CNN's Jake Tapper as he investigates what happened during the U.S. fight against COVID-19. It's a CNN special report, "THE PANDEMIC AND THE PRESIDENT." And it airs tomorrow night at 10:00 on CNN.

We'll be right back.



CABRERA: It is the stay-at-home spring of 2020. And the same technology that lets people work from home and attend class from home is perfect for couples who can't wait to get married.

Here is Jeanne Moos.


(MUSIC) JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When lockdown means you can't walk down the aisle


MOOS: -- when friends and family can't gather to hear --


MOOS: -- consider saying, "I thee Zoom wed."

Bride and groom invited as many as 50 guests who introduced themselves.

MICHAEL: I'm Uncle Michael from Canada.

MOOS: Drank and ate up to the moment of the ceremony.

The mother of the groom in the U.K. wore a fascinator. Friends of the bride dressed fancy on top.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bottom part was a pajama.

MOOS: Shoe designer, Sayaka Fukuda. and James Storr Brown, who works in finance, were among the first New Yorkers to marry on Zoom after Governor Cuomo gave the green light to weddings via video conferencing.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: So there's no excuses anymore. Yes or no? Will you marry me?


MOOS: These two newlyweds nuzzled and kissed their way through our interview, even rubbed noses.

A long-time friend officiated at the ceremony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be your lawfully wedded wife.


MOOS: This really puts the Zoom in marriage. How long did it take to arrange and invite guests?

BROWN: Two hours.

FUKUDA: Two hours.

MOOS: The couple says lockdown -- note the quarantine hair -- was great practice for marriage after dating three and a half years.

BROWN: We'll look back on this and laugh and realize that, you know, there is a light and that we can get through things together.

MOOS: It may not sound like the language of love. FUKUDA: I have to mute this, sorry.

MOOS: But there's nothing mute about this romance.


BROWN: I think he said, you know, now you may kiss the bride, and that we do.

FUKUDA: I screamed. You can see my video. I screamed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can now pronounce you husband and wife.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kiss the bride.

MOOS: There were cheers, toasts. But some guests complained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of us missed the kiss, guys.

MOOS: Don't worry, they're more than making up for that.

BROWN: That was great.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --


FUKUDA: I love you.

MOOS: -- New York.